Episode 1301: From Resume to Results: How to Hire Leaders Who Actually Deliver with David Ulrich

Speaker A: Welcome to the sharkpreneur podcast with Kevin Harrington and Seth Green. Kevin Harrington is the inventor of the infomercial, one of the original sharks from the hit TV show Shark Tank, and has generated over $5 billion in TV and digital direct response sales. Seth Green is the world's first trusted authority on cutting edge direct response marketing, a best selling author and the only three time marketer of the year nominee, Oliver. On the podcast, Kevin and Seth interview sharkpreneurs who share straight talk on what it takes to explode your business.

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Speaker C: welcome to the Sharkpreneur podcast. This is your host, Seth Green. Today I've got the fortune to be with David Ulrich, who is a highly experienced executive, search and human capital strategist with over 15 years of experience in the restaurant, hospitality, franchising and real estate industry. He's got a proven track record of success in recruiting, developing and retaining top talent for organizations at all levels. Something we all care about even if we're not in the restaurant, hospitality, franchising or real estate business. David, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker D: Ah, uh, thank you very much. Appreciate to be here.

Speaker C: Seth, our pleasure. So you've been at this a long time. Let's go back in time. How did you get started?

Speaker D: Well uh, you know the interesting thing about the recruiting industry, it's, it's one of the few professions that you either don't go to school for or uh, likely you fall into because you know someone who ironically enough recruits you into the industry. So uh, it is as uh, as unique as that. I was at a uh, Merrill lynch, uh, down in Tampa Florida back in, uh, in, in 2004 through 2006 and uh, developed a friendship with someone I was courting to become uh, a client uh, of mine, uh, while I was with Merrill lynch and um, he uh, did the end around and recruited me into uh, the search business uh through uh, at the time a boutique firm called Ray Executive Search and uh, Bob Gershberg who I consider my second mentor in, uh, in my profession, or I should say in my career, uh, was the one who talked with me about it, said that uh, he thought that I could do very well and would be a profession that um, you know, basically could be a long term career. Which interestingly enough at the time I had worked with a number of different, uh, companies, Pitney, Bowes, Gartner Group, uh, again, Merrill lynch and, and, and, and a couple more. But um, turns out this is the longest profession that I've been in and uh, really do like it. Um, it's one that some people uh, don't like because there's a high burnout rate. But when you get past that threshold, probably about um, two to three years, um, like a doctor, lawyer, accountant, uh, it becomes, um, people get to know you, like you and trust you. And that's really something that's very unique and important that I enjoy about the profession.

Speaker C: Awesome. Now you've worked in restaurants, hospitality, franchising, real estate. How did you go across like all those different industries which arguably can be very different?

Speaker D: Well, they, they are different. Um, they are different. And what, as what enabled me to really broaden and cut across the different industries was uh, my basic appreciation of business. I was an econ major in college, which is really the study of business. That's what economics really is when it comes down to it. And when you are able to understand about business, how it's developed, how it works from beginning to end, um, you know, all you have to really understand is how things connect together. And that's really talking with executives and leadership. And when I'm hired by, uh, clients, uh, it's good to know not only about the business but some of the nuances. So, um, what I can say though, I'm not a restaurant executive and never been an operator, uh, I know enough about what to ask that uh, I don't need to be an operator. I don't need to be in the business to understand what their, what their needs are and what they're, what they're looking to achieve.

Speaker C: That makes a lot of sense. What do those sectors have in common, you know, when it comes to hiring great leaders?

Speaker D: Well, you know, um, like most businesses, it does come down to people. Um, and, and so as a cliche, as, as it is, it does come down to people. But there are leadership that cut across industries. Uh, the restaurant industry is somewhat unique, even though, uh, everybody goes to it, whether you know, uh, whether you're having breakfast, lunch or dinner, um, and you're going out to eat, you're going to a restaurant. What makes it uniquely different than many other industries is it's really two businesses in one. It's retail at the front of the house because when you sit down you're looking at uh, a menu and that's a retail price, not a manufacturing or a wholesale price. And then in the back of the restaurant, uh, the back of the house, that's manufacturing. And manufacturing is really profit and loss of what's being made, the production of it, um, and not only labor inputs, cost of goods sold and theft and spoilage, uh, which is a big factor that most other industries aren't impacted as much as they are in the restaurant industry. And I'm talking about spoilage more so than theft. Um, you know, you'll get theft in all industries.

Speaker C: Absolutely. So the Sharkprinter nation, predominantly business owners, were all partially in the business of like recruiting, hiring, training, retaining great people. What separates candidates who look great on paper and who interview well from someone who's truly going to succeed in a leadership role?

Speaker D: Well, so, so there are some, there are some understanding and basic um, differences that, that I uh, that I interview for when I'm talking with people. Um, first and foremost I like to understand how entrepreneurial they are. And when I say entrepreneurial, everybody says oh yeah, I'm entrepreneurial. That yes. However, what is truly entrepreneurial is the willingness and ability to bet on yourself and say hey, I'm willing to uh, you know, either take less money to make more money in, in, in um, in, in in um, equity or in the opportunity.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker D: Or hey, if, if uh, payroll uh, doesn't get uh, you know, isn't made every, every week or every other week, uh, can I withstand several months of not being paid, uh, with you know, and that, that begins to get a bit um, challenging for people especially if you are you know, very conservative and more corporate oriented where you need that paycheck, right. You need that reliability to count on every week and every month for your family. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker E: All right.

Speaker D: But that really begins to separate who is, who is a bit more entrepreneurial than not. All right, I'll let you know. I'm self employed. Technically. I have been self employed since uh, March 26 uh, 2006 and which means I don't have any income if I don't work, uh, I don't have money coming in on a regular basis unless I'm working with clients on active searches and things of that nature. So that's pretty Much as entrepreneurial as you're. As you're going to get. Now, the interesting thing about this industry, I would say at least 80 to 90% of the industry is 1099 and not W2, uh, employees, which is not a bad thing. But that's where you get a lot of entrepreneurs, uh, in this profession.

Speaker C: That makes a lot of sense. So when a company says we need someone on the leadership team or we need a great executive, what you talk about, the questions we should be asking ourselves before we even engage somebody like you, before we start the search, what are some of those questions we should be asking internally before we ever hire a headhunter or do a job posting any of those things?

Speaker D: Well, uh, that's a great question, Seth. And I, and I would say as a professional, you are coming up through the ranks, and this is, this is a recommendation because anybody who is, who is going to, um, be involved in career advancement. All right? Career advancement comes in two ways. Uh, either you know someone and they like you and they, they bring you along like a mentor. Okay. Or you are recruited by an outside agency who either came across your, Your background and your, Your profile, whether it's on LinkedIn or by referrals or anything like that. Uh, those are the two ways that you are going to progress in your career. Okay? Now, number one, yes, you can rely on your internal network, and it's important, obviously, but things can go awry, and that's really where you need to have a relationship with at least two other, uh, people aside from myself. So basically, three people I recommend that you build relationships with so that you're not caught when the music stops. And there is no job that you can rely on someone who is at least going to know who you are, what you're about, and can, can reach out to their network of clients to say, hey, here is someone that, you know, uh, you know, whether or not you have an open job or an open search, you know, you can't pull, you know, you can't create jobs from thin air, but it's always a timing thing. Um, but it's important to know somebody who can help you, um, beyond your personal network of people. You know that.

Speaker C: May I like that a lot. Um, on the other, on the flip side, what are some of the biggest, most common mistakes you see companies making when they hire senior leaders?

Speaker D: Uh, well, I would say sometimes, uh, and there are some folks that really look good, present well, and have great, great pedigrees. What I would say for the boardroom, however, uh, I'm Going to say this, not to be disrespecting anybody specifically, but there are companies that will hire retreads, uh, that have had failure throughout various times in their career. Uh, but because the board knows this person or um, there's some greater um, greater uh, influence of this individual and they get hired again. Uh, I, I've seen it happen over and over. Uh, and it's, it's, it's a tragedy actually.

Speaker C: How has executive recruiting changed in the last five to 10 years?

Speaker D: That, that's also, that's actually a good question because, because when I first started I was always concerned, am I getting into the buggy whip industry? Meaning an industry that is going to become. And when I first started we had monster.com. we had, you know, all different uh, platforms that were out there. Uh, now it's, now it's uh, you know, ziprecruiter and other things like that. Uh, indeed. And you know, now with the quote unquote threat of AI, what I've learned is that the search process is really a four step process and, or like in baseball, first base, second base, third base, home. Right. First and second base are uh, always the areas that will be automated because they're generally the lowest hanging fruit of automation. So when I got in, when I got into the business in 2006, around 2007, 2008, LinkedIn was first introduced. And LinkedIn actually has been a game changer because like Facebook, LinkedIn is your social media for your professional profile. And as many times as it's been talked about to be replaced, I don't think it's going to be replaced because it's the one area that professionals feel comfortable and if there is an area that people don't want to Change, it's your LinkedIn profile. Uh, it's just the, the, it's just the way it is. And, and that's not a bad thing, that's actually a good thing. And what I'm saying is that you know, as an individual you should have an updated LinkedIn profile that uh, really displays who you are, what you bring to the table and what you can do and that's really what, what, what a profile should, um, look like.

Speaker C: Absolutely. You've helped so many companies place so many amazing leaders. What's your biggest challenge now?

Speaker D: Well, the biggest challenge is always so, so since COVID when, when I went on my own, I actually went on my own in, in December of 2019, not knowing that right around the corner, three months later Covid was going to happen. Um, I Had a few large clients and then I also had some other large multi unit franchise clients and also some small mid market private equity companies. Uh, so when I went on my own, When Covid happened, March 15th, 16th or whatever, corporate shutdown, everybody, uh, big clients, Wendy's, Burger King and so on, they stop hiring because they don't need recruiters and so on. Um, I saw where the puck was going and I started focusing on the small mid market private equity companies where I had never really operated before, and the multi unit franchise systems like Flynn, Flynn Group, you used to be Flynn Restaurant Group, which is the biggest in the world with over 5 billion in, uh, in assets and size as a multi unit franchisee.

Speaker C: Wow. Your passion is obvious. What do you like best about what you're doing?

Speaker D: Well, I've always enjoyed, uh, what I, what I've enjoyed is that um, the impact and influence that you can have on people's lives is very gratifying. And I mean that from the standpoint that when I was at Merrill lynch, uh, you have the fiduciary responsibility of managing people's money, which is obviously very personal, right? Well, not many, but since getting onto the executive search side, I look at my responsibility as a fiduciary responsibility of managing people's careers, which is a bit different. Right. But also very important to people because I think that's where people learn how authentic you are, how trustworthy you are, and that you're not just trying to sell them on a job so that they get paid. Now obviously, inherently that's the wish at the end because that's the success fee that you, that you gain. But I am never going to try to talk someone into taking a job because I benefit, they have to benefit from taking the job. And I tell them or inform them the good, bad and the ugly about the client because I want to be straightforward with the candidate, because I'm as good as the candidate that I bring to the table. And there are always, you know, great things about certain clients. And that same client could have some ugly underbelly that no one really knows about. Uh, uh, I'm going to inform that candidate because I don't want them to call me three months later and say, oh my God, get me out of here. This is not what I signed up for. And that's, that's the worst feeling. And I've only had that happen once. That's why I try to guard against that happening.

Speaker C: It makes a lot of sense. Your, um, I mean you've got so much incredible skills, network Talent, resources, knowledge for. We greatly appreciate your time. We know it's so valuable for our folks who might like to learn more about what you're doing and how you could help their business. Where is the best place for us to send them?

Speaker D: Uh, well, my website is David Ulrich Associates dot com. Uh, that's probably the best. My LinkedIn profile is David Ulrich, Florida, I think, because there is a famous David Ulrich. All right, places, ah, I would say would be the best places to go.

Speaker C: Great. Okay, so this has been Seth Green for Sharkpreneur with David Ulrich. With David Ulrich Associates. David, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker D: Seth, thank you and appreciate and keep, uh, up the good work.

Speaker C: Thank you for the kind words. Thank you everybody for watching or listening. We will talk to you or see you next time.

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