Getting Plastic Out of Our Daily Routines with Lindsay McCormick of BITE (Episode 56)

Speaker A: Welcome to Scaling Sustainability, a podcast about how companies are viewing, innovating and deploying sustainability within their organization. I'm your host, Seth Cisseski. Each episode you'll learn something new through engaging conversations on sustainability related topics with industry leaders and disruptors. We'll draw from decades of experience in the sustainability sector, take you inside the process as we scale our own ESG company, CoolPerks, and learn more about how businesses are scaling sustainability. Thanks for joining me today. Your daily hygiene routine has more to do with the future of our planet than you may think. There's been rising concern about the carbon footprint of the personal care industry. From manufacturing to shipping and packaging, the these products often leave a trail of waste in their wake. Every year we produce enough plastic waste to circle the globe twice as a result of cleaning our teeth with toothpaste in containers that are destined for a landfill. In fact, on average, it takes 500 years for a toothpaste tube to fully biodegrade. Meaning that every tube you have ever used in your lifetime is still out there in a pile of trash somewhere. As consumers become more aware of the impending climate crisis, they're increasingly wanting to buy eco friendly products to factor into their daily routines. Lindsay McCormick is the founder and CEO of Bite, makers of plastic free cruelty free products. On a mission to become the world's most sustainable personal care company, Lindsay has built a multimillion dollar company aimed at getting plastic out of our daily routines. With her first product being the viral toothpaste tablets in 2018. Since then, bite has created an entirely plastic free oral care set and most recently released the first ever 100% plastic free deodorant with compostable refills and its plastic free and pump free body balm. I have to tell you, I had a great time chatting with Lindsay. She originally wanted, well, she'll tell you, uh, to be a nature documentarian and we were chatting about our favorite animals and, and such. It was just really a blast. She's so passionate about what she's doing and um, I just can't recommend her company enough. So here is my conversation with Lindsay. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining me here today. I really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me, Seth.

Speaker A: Awesome. Hey, so let's get started. Can you um, maybe tell us a little bit about your background and as your journey as the founder and CEO of Byte?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, you know, I had started Byte in my living room in 2018. I had always been really passionate about sustainability and conservation and I actually, I wanted to work in nature documentaries. And I was working in the television and I was flying all around to film for different TV shows, and I was going through these little toothpaste tubes. And, you know, I had spent time even before that as a surf instructor here in Malibu, seeing more and more plastic wash up on my board, which is actually why I wanted to get into making nature documentaries. And so here I was, you know, fast forward a few years, throwing out these little toothpaste tubes, and it just felt very kind of incongruent with the way that I wanted to live my life. I was living a lower waste lifestyle, longtime vegan. So I started looking into alternatives on, honestly, just to travel with. I just wanted something where I wasn't throwing out that little tube. And that's when I learned about the over a billion toothpaste tubes that end up in our landfills and our oceans every year. And just like, how thick that material is. Yeah, it's shocking. And, you know, I think it's hard to wrap your head around numbers like that. And so, you know, we ran the math of the volume and it's actually 50 Empire State Buildings worth of plastic every single year just from toothpaste tubes. Right. And so it's one of those things where it's like a little thing that we do every day and you don't really think about it, but it really is like becoming this massive amount of waste. And so I looked into alternatives, but they were all either packaged in plastic or they had, um, and then they had like, ingredients that I couldn't get behind. And it was in that search, actually for a more sustainable solution that I learned about all of the harsh chemicals, artificial flavors, dyes, preservatives that are in toothpaste. And I was like, wait a minute, like, I don't even use like, parabens or sodium lauryl sulfate or, you know, like, uh, artificial, like dyes in my shampoo. But here I am, like, literally brushing my teeth with it, you know, and so that was the, okay, I want to make something that's more sustainable, better for our bodies, better for our planet. And it was, it was honestly just like a curiosity and a hobby that like, snowballed into this, like, full blown obsession. Uh, and the next thing I knew, I was like, you know, talking to dentists and dental hygienists, like, taking online chemistry classes and pressing out these tablets in my living room. I actually had to buy a tablet machine. I flew to Texas to learn how to use it. Uh, and I started pressing that in my living room. So, um, and sorry, I keep on going on and I get really passionate about it. But if you don't.

Speaker A: Oh no, I love it.

Speaker B: So bite. Our first product was our toothpaste tablet. It's a dry tablet that comes in a glass bottle with compostable refills. And so it's kind of like a Smartie. You bite down on, um, starts to turn to powder and you chew it until it turns to paste and then you just brush with a wet toothbrush. And so super simple, but new. Like no one had ever done it in subscription refillable format before. So yeah, that's kind of how it started. It was like a weird question that ended up an obsession and now a business.

Speaker A: No, that's so cool. Uh, we've had them at our house before. Same reason. I mean, you know, it's like always looking to try to avoid unnecessary plastic, right? Always. And you know, we're in a, in a business too where like we're in corporate gifting and it turns out like 80% of that stuff is thrown out within the year. And so like, we had to like kind of reinvent our whole supply chain around and then like the way we frame things. So, so I, I, I really resonate with like the waste aspect. So 1 billion tubes, that's, that's crazy. I know. Like, you know, it's like 90% of all plastic ends up not, not recycled. So maybe talk a little bit more about like what, because you guys have grown too. Like, you know, it used to just be toothpaste. So maybe you can tell me a little bit about what bite and what you guys are doing to like tackle, you know, the plastic problem and then kind of maybe some about where you're heading, like um, what you're bullish about right now.

Speaker B: Yeah. So our mission is to get plastic out of our everyday routines. So whether it's what you're brushing your teeth with, so toothpaste to deodorant, if it's in your daily routine, you're using it every day. Um, you know, we really believe and the data shows our small habits really add up. We whether it's little changes that you're making to your lifestyle, even from beyond a sustainability, even just wellness. Right. These little things, they really add up to have a huge impact. And so we started with our toothpaste tablets. That was our first product. Uh, we expanded, we have now a, uh, fully plastic free oral care line. From toothpaste tablets, mouthwash tablets, bamboo toothbrush, plastic free floss and whitening gel. The first ever, uh, 100% plastic free whitening gel. It's super cool. It's like a glass jar with, uh, the whitening gel in it. And you take a bam. Bamboo applicator brush and you paint it on your teeth. And so it's there to replace those, the white strips. Right. That are just so incredibly wasteful. And it also uses clean ingredients because turns out, I feel like, not surprisingly, there's a bunch of bad stuff in whitening products. Uh, so we wanted to kind of have an answer for that. And then we've expanded into personal care. And our expansion into personal care, I never thought that would happen. When I started BITE in my living room, I literally called it Bite toothpaste bits because I was like, what's unique? Uh, but then we wanted to kind of grow as our customer base grew and as people were asking for more things. And so now BITE B I T E stands for because it's the earth. And it was something that kind of came to me on a run. It was retrofitted for sure. I live, um, in Marina del Rey, right on the ocean. And so I was like on a run at the beach trying to think of like, what, how do I take. Yeah, I'm like, how do I do this? Like, how do I make it make sense? And I was like, because it's the earth. I was like, oh my God, that makes sense. It's like everything we do at this company is because it's the earth. So, um, that's how it all went. And then we ended up with a, ah, plastic free deodorant. And the idea of that was, I don't know if you use the cardboard tube deodorant or the

Speaker A: deodorant. Oh man, that's one of those ways. I tried all the natural things, um, and they just weren't doing it for me. So I'm doing the wrong thing right now. And I haven't tried yours. I've seen it now on the website and so it's something that I will have to try.

Speaker B: We need to. We'll send you some, Seth. We'll send you some. But it's, you know, that was the thing. And so we actually, I wanted it. Everything about bite, we want to make sure that we're better for the planet, better for our bodies, but also effective, right? Because if it's not effective, you're creating more waste because people are going to throw it out. And it's like if you build up this trust and then someone tries something and it doesn't work like Then maybe they won't try the next eco friendly product. Right? So we take it very seriously. So we did clinical testing on our deodorant. And, um, it's effective in terms of, uh, body odor and as well as keeping you dry. But it's not an antiperspirant, so it's not gonna keep you bone dry, but it is gonna help keep you dry. And it's baking soda free. And so it was just really important. Cause if you have ever used, uh, the stuff in a tube, a, it doesn't really work. Right. But also it's tough. Like it comes in this cardboard applicator tube, which is better than plastic, right? But you have to stick your finger up there and you can't travel with it because it falls apart and it's just not a great experience. And so that was something where it was like, okay, if Bite made a deodorant, what would we make it like? And so that's how we kind of came up with this super sleek, beautiful, um, metal case and then the compostable refill that doesn't touch your armpit because you don't want to get sweaty. And it's just, it's much more, um, thoughtful than the other options out there right now. And we've had really positive feedback from customers.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I love that. So, I mean, you guys are kind of blazing your own trail, right? Which is so cool. So, um, I imagine one of the reasons no one else has been doing any of this stuff is complacency, right? So it's really easy just to uphold the status quo when you've already established it. But maybe you could talk to me about some of the bigger challenges you've had, basically creating a new category or a new way to approach the category as you've scaled.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think, man, uh, why we're where we are, I think there are just so many different reasons. Like as a society, right. I think there's this race to the bottom of the big guys have just gotten caught in this. It needs to be the cheapest, easiest. You know, uh, they don't care about ingredients, and so that's what they're shoving out. And so, you know, we come out with something that's much more expensive, right? The sustainability, it's, you know, something that we take a lot of pride and time in is to educate our customers, right? Educate the people who support us. Because, you know, my background's in tv. I understand the importance of media, which is why I wanted to work in nature documentaries. So it's like being able, like having people understand, you know, why something costs a little bit more, I just think is really important because if something sustainable costs the same as something unsustainable, everyone would be making the sustainable choice. But like, it's more expensive because it's better, you know, and if it's, if you're paying a living wage to the people who are making it, it's made in the US So I think there's a lot of education that goes into it that's incredibly hard. And then I also think that there's a lot of just like, research on the development side, asking questions like making sure, like taking nothing at face value. When we ask, you know, is this palm oil free? People love to say yes. But then when you actually are like, well, we're going to get this certified palm oil free, all of a sudden people are like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, there's, you know, a break in the supply chain. And you're like, okay, like these are the types of things, the questions that you have to ask. And of course it's a lot more effort and it's, it ends up being much more expensive. So, you know, you have to kind of pick and choose or you have to be very intentional on how to spend your money as a business, you know. And so for us, it's making really high quality products that come with a more premium price point, but understanding that that's what our customer wants, you know. And so, you know, our toothpaste, most toothpaste is made in China. Ours is made here in Los Angeles, you know, and like, most things are made, you know, most deodorant's made in overseas as well. Ours is made, uh, here in the US and so I think it's making the right choice and then being able to explain to your customers what, why you've made that choice and then the implications of that choice.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, the education piece is, uh, really important there. I don't know if this is controversial. I was just seeing something the other day about all these developed nations still using coal. And I was thinking about it and it's like forever everyone's been doing this just because it's so cheap. And I thought, really though, it's kind of like stealing. They're stealing from the future a little bit. It's like, uh, there's other ways to do it. And I always think back all these personal care products, like, I always think, what were my great grandparents doing? Like, they weren't having problems like that none of this stuff existed. They weren't, they weren't creating all this waste and um, you know, their lives were just fine.

Speaker B: That's something that people have kind of talked about in terms of, you know, the true cost of something. Right. Whether it's plastic, you know, plastic, one single use item, or whether it's a high carbon type of food. Right. Like a red meat or. And I think that like when you actually like beef in general, when you look at the true cost of something, it is so different than the monetary cost that things, you know, are right now. And I think that I, um, think more people are waking up to that, you know, and I think that like, our company is a pretty solid testament to that because we didn't raise any money. You know, we are, I say we're bootstrapped, but I say it's customer funded. Uh, and it, we literally exist because our customers choose our product over and over and over again. And I think that's why we can, we can invest in innovation. That's why we can use the ingredients that we, you know, are able to use. Um, it's because we just have this, this support from our customers that's amazing.

Speaker A: We ended up creating a carbon index for products because it didn't exist before. We were trying to do carbon reporting for our clients, our corporate clients, they don't want it as much as I want to give it to them. But yeah, and like originally I had this index called that was the true cost index because I was thinking about all the embodied costs that are negative externalities that no one's really talking about, you know, like, but it all matters in your stakeholder relations. You know, it sounds like you guys being customer funded and having all these referral base, it's really amazing to see your stakeholders, like really become advocates for, for your brand. So that's so cool. So, all right, you're surfing in Huntington beach or Malibu or somewhere and wanting to be a documentarian, which is amazing. And now you're, you're running a large company, so I'm sure that there was like. So it's exactly what you always wanted to do. Um, it's what you would have chosen, right, had you, had you known. What would you tell new founders that you wish you had known when you started your journey?

Speaker B: Oh. So I would say there's so many things, like the first thing to just get totally comfortable with is that no one knows what we're doing. Right. Everybody is figuring it out. And if you are a founder and you are blazing A new industry, you have a new product, you have anything that's going to be successful. Right. Most likely it's new. And when something's new, it means there's no guidebook, there's no map. And so you are constantly in uncharted territory and you're trying to find the solution. So I think the idea is like, you know, we all think that these entrepreneurs and CEOs, that they just like, have this, they just have it all figured out. What they figured out is how to figure out things faster and how to like, you know, be comfortable with not knowing and trying to still make the best decision decisions. So it would be just kind of accepting the uncomfortableness of it and then proceeding anyway. That would be my advice for sure.

Speaker A: When you say that, I just think it's like not drowning. It seems very glitzy, but at the end of the day it's like, how do we make it tomorrow? Um, ah, a little bit. But there's so much reward in it, uh, if you could stick it out and keep swimming. Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's the thing too is that it's the, it's. I feel like I have the best job in the world. It's, it's the most. I, I feel so. I would have never in a million years, um, thought that I would be an entrepreneur and especially not running like a toothpaste company of all things, you know, but it really just shows you that when you're passionate about something and that you love something, it doesn't really matter what it is. If you're really, really into it, that's the reward, you know, And I think it makes it all worth it.

Speaker A: That's incredible. That's awesome. Um, so I think I always try to talk to clients about making,

Speaker B: uh,

Speaker A: better decisions for the triple bottom line and things that are more aligned really to their brand values and their public facing missions and initiatives and goals which are really fantastic in the personal care space. Um, if companies are wanting to make a shift, what concrete actions can they take, um, you know, to start doing something differently? I mean, you know, hopefully everyone's going to go that way and the ones that don't will die off like blockbuster. But until then, what can they do? I mean, what can they learn from what you've done, um, that would make a huge change, uh, in what they're doing positively.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I think you and I both know running a business is hard, right? And so to add being like, not only do you need to run your business and like, you know, keep like food on your table and you keep profitability. But now you need to be sustainable, right? It's incredibly intimidating. And I get that it might be the last thing that people, business owners want to think about, but I think you and I, we probably see the data like this is the future, like this is what customers, they want, what they'll pay for, what they're looking for. And so although it doesn't seem like you're going to get this direct return, it is something that as you, as you pivot your company and make more sustainable choices, you will be more in alignment of these future customers. It will be good for business down the line. And so I think like that's the first thing to recognize is that this is not just squishy, like oh, save the planet. This is like this is the way the future is, is going. This is how you will survive as a business and this is what people want. So kind of like coming to the table with that, it's what are the smallest things that you can do that will create the least headache to your, I'm sure already heavily burdened team to get you in a, uh, more sustainable path. And so maybe it's something like if you're working with a 3 PL or if you have your own in house, uh, packing, could you switch from plastic tape to paper tape? Right. That seems so minuscule. But those things really do add up because it's not only. Or could you go from a bubble mailer to a recyclable or compostable newspaper filled mailer. And uh, the thing is, it's not just the choice that you've made of going to paper tape or going to that recyclable mailer. It's also you're now supporting, supporting that business that makes that paper tape, that M makes that recyclable mailer. Then what happens is more businesses do that, then there's a scalability to it, right? They can now, it can be cheaper, it can be more accessible. And so when we all start making these small choices again, I guess going back to the little things really adding up, it really does, you know, and so it's looking at something that's not going to completely disrupt your supply chain in your head. And then it's like once you get that going, so you got your paper tape going and then now you have your recyclable mailers going, it's like, okay, let's look at the next little win we can make. And it's those little things and then you look 24 months down the line and you're like, wow, we've made substantial changes here, uh, in a more eco friendly direction. And so I think that's the advice I give to um, other founders and other business owners because I get that it's hard and it's all about those little changes, folding them in and understanding the compounding effect of like it's not just your business, you're now supporting other businesses. And that's just so amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love the ripple effect and I mean like the whole, the small things adding up because you mentioned it's like that in life too I think or something like that. And I was thinking about just like eating or exercising or just like the little things you just every day and then all of a sudden it adds up. And I think that's totally true. Inside a business that's really good and it's simple because they're little things.

Speaker B: Exactly. Gotta make it easy. We really do. You have to make things accessible or else it just feels really intimidating and doesn't get done, you know.

Speaker A: Totally. I have two questions you could pick one, you could tackle both. One of them is, and I don't want to catch anyone off guard because you don't think about this ahead of time sometimes, but is there uh, a commonly held belief about sustainability that you disagree with? And then the other one would be, you know, I guess like in the hierarchy of different things you're trying to tackle plastic waste. Like, like what, what do you think is something from, from your perspective that that also is like, you know, top of mind that that really needs to be tackled?

Speaker B: Oh yeah. Okay, great. So, um, I'm happy to answer both. I would say the first thing to

Speaker A: give you an out.

Speaker B: Just. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. The hierarchy one, I think, yeah. Are it's plastic waste. It's getting things out of ah, our daily routine. But then the second one is, I mean this is not something that we can tackle as a business but we want to be able to be a part of the conversation because it's just so important is climate change. Right. It's very. Have a new product actually I launched specifically to be able to speak to about climate change. Um, we have something that's called our carbon capture cleanser and it's made with sea kelp. And the reason we chose sea kelp is there's a lot of really great, uh, skin benefits to it. That's very well known. But what a lot of people don't know is that kelp is like blue carbon is amazing. Right. And it can uh, capture 20 times more carbon dioxide than trees, but it requires no fresh water or pesticides to grow. And if we start really taking kelp seriously as a sustainability, as a, um, carbon capture technology, and I use technology loosely, but it is, it is a tech.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's natural sequestration. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Exactly. It's really exciting and it's something that I just feel like me and our team, we spent a lot of time learning about the sustainable space, climate change space, and there's a lot of these tree planting programs and all these things. But kelp just, I felt like, got no love, you know, And I was like, we want to talk about this. We want to get our customers understanding how amazing kelp is. And so we literally launched a bar. And so we have, it's a give back program. A part of the proceeds, um, go to blue carbon initiatives. So it's like, not only are we using this as, you know, not only do we get to make a really great product, but we also get to then talk about how great kelp is for carbon capture and then also donate to carbon capture initiatives. So I think, you know, that's. The plastic is terrible and needs to be dealt with and that's like our main situation, like our, uh, plastic, plastic pollution. Right. Is terrible. And that's what we want to talk about. But we also really want to not forget the bigger conversation of climate change because that's going to rock us all, um, in the next, in the upcoming decades. So. And then I would say like a common health misconception, which is something that we really try to explain at bite, is that sustainability is not black and white. And it's also incredibly like, it's incredibly nuanced. Right. It's all shades of gray. Sometimes you're making a decision, you're making the least bad decision. Sometimes that's really what sustainability is. And I think because we all need like Instagram captions and tweets, it gets distilled into 140 characters. And so it feels very black and white, but that's just not how it actually operates. It is a spectrum. And I, um, think that we, we take a lot of time to explain our choices in these kind of long written blog posts on our site, which I don't think anyone reads, but we do have a small contingent of people who read it because, because they want to know our decision making process. And we say the good and the bad of why we made this choice and what the pro and what the con is. And I think that turns that section of customers into advocates. But then we also have to have the Instagram caption and the tweet because we need to be able to distill this very complex information into a digestible way format. But then the thing that I think that we're constantly battling with is trying to show people that sustainability is nuanced and it's a spectrum while still like kind of living in this black and white tweet filled world, you know. And so that's what I would say is a misconception for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The whole it's not binary thing, uh, it's so many shades of gray. You're absolutely right. That's so true.

Speaker B: Yeah. And what's literally what we can see too is that what's like top of the line today, right, in terms of like biofilms or whatever could be totally different in 24 months. And as a business, you know, you have to constantly be keeping track, keeping on top of that. And so I think it's like, yeah, not only is it a spectrum, but it's also ever changing. And I think that's um, what makes it exciting and challenging.

Speaker A: Well, that's a great segue. So like you have an interesting perspective like, you know, because of uh, where you're at. Where do you see the, in your crystal ball, where do you see the future of the personal care product industry either here or globally in the next five and 10 years? I guess obviously we don't know because any innovation that hasn't happened yet, but you're at the forefront and you're creating a lot of it.

Speaker B: I wish I had a crystal ball, but if I had to make my guesses, I would say, I mean what we see is so many more people are really looking into and caring about ingredients, not only how it impacts them, but how the ingredients are impacting waterways, um, and you know, mining techniques, all of those types of things like actual sustainability and ingredients. And we're also seeing, I mean, refillables. I think that the future is absolutely refillable. Um, I think it makes way more sense, I think in hydrous products like ours, which is water free. So our tablets, our mouth, like our toothpaste tablets, mouthwash tablets, those things. I think, uh, we have a body bar like a moisturizer that is water free. And so it's like, it's just basically all these really great, it's vitamin E, it's vegan squalene, and it's like highly concentrated. So I think, you know, cleaner ingredients, refillable systems, they will begin to be the norm as we continue along. And people kind of understand the implications of plastic buildup, how it's working its way into our waterways and all these really terrible things, but then also wanting cleaner products for their bodies and the planet too.

Speaker A: I have two last questions. The first one is a little more abstract, but, um, uh, if there were no barriers standing in your way, it's Queen Lindsay, you can do whatever you want. What project would you love to take on in terms of sustainability or I guess anything else for that matter?

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. If nothing stood in my way, it would be. I just think communication around it is so incredibly important. I mean, maybe it's my background of nature documentary, like wanting to work in nature documentaries that never fully went away. I'm obsessed with our products. I love our products. I want to always make products. I think that's incredibly important and real, tangible change. But I also, I just really think that as we kind of talked about sustainability being so nuanced, I would love to be able to be way more active in that conversation of, you know, like, just in general trying to explain to people why it's important and kind of getting the word out there more. I think that that's what I would love to do. Um, and that's something we can do at Bite. You know, it's something that we, we are a small team, so kind of taking on those types of content initiatives is a little bit more challenging for us. That would be like, different, but I think that it's just really important because I think media in general really can impact society in really important ways. And I would love to kind of do more of that. I feel like that would hopefully be something that's impactful because then it's like you inspire people to make change, then they spin up different solutions and businesses and everything, and you can just kind of spin up something way bigger than yourself. Um, and I think that's what I see kind of working.

Speaker A: That's a great answer. Push us towards that tipping point and get it all going. There's so many amazing people, um, and resources and innovations still to come, and having good, clear communication and everyone on board would be huge. So I like that. I actually like. Because I have a small question at the end now that we were just saying something, but the last question typically would be. I guess it's. It's interesting now because we're just in a different time than when we were. When we were children. I hate, Like, I'm not. Anyway, I'm 40, but I. I feel like When I see, um, you know, on the news now, there's. There's all kind. You know, we're watching rivers drying up and all this stuff, and I don't mean to be like a downer, but, like, you know, you're watching plastic wash up on your beaches there and in California, and I guess what is, uh, what are you thinking a lot about? Like, what's weighing you down, if anything? And I don't mean. And then on the flip side, like, what's giving you hope right now? Like, what's raising you up? What's making you feel great?

Speaker B: M. I think it's really easy to get weighed down, right? I think, like, we see climate change, uh, when we were kind of talking about what it looked like when we were younger. And now I'm the same age. I'm 38. And so, you know, I. I don't know if things were different back then, but it didn't feel like it was the same because now, I mean, also we're all just so connected. So when there's, you know, these droughts and in India and, you know, floods in Pakistan, we see them and they're of our. Our news. It's part of our reality. And I think that that's really amazing. It needs to happen because it's incredibly terrible that these things are happening. And so we need to be reminded of the problem so we can be focused on the solution. And I think that that's. That's something. It's like, really easy to get very overwhelmed. Like, very, very easy. I think that's also a kind of a tendency of. Of anybody who's in this space. It's always kind of trying to balance hope versus despair. And it's like. And honestly, you need to activate that despair to be motivated to find the solutions, to give hope. Right? Because if we're all just like, it's going to be fine, everything's fine, then we're not looking for those solutions. Solutions are not easy to find. And they're typically. They're hard to find, they're expensive, they're a change in behavior, and it's something that you need to be motivated to do. So I think these really catastrophic events, as absolutely unfortunate as they are, we need to be able to take them to motivate us to find new solutions. Um, and so those solutions are what gives me hope. You know, being able to see that people, you know, we get. Somebody said the other day, like, they gave up their weekly Starbucks so they could afford their bite subscription, you know, because we're a little bit more expensive than regular toothpaste. But we have a customer who's like, so into our mission that they were like, I would rather not go to Starbucks on Fridays and be a subscriber to Bite, you know, And I think that that's something where I'm like, holy cow. You know, like, that's. That's really amazing that people are, you know, and I know voting with your dollars can be, like, a controversial, um, thing to say, but, like, you know, putting. Making that choice if they can. And I think that that's something that I'm just, like, constantly in awe by.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. All right. My sneaky last question that I didn't have, but now I do have. So we keep mentioning nature documentary. I. I'm a sucker for them. So I'll just sit and watch them. All of them especially, you know, and I just say, it's for my daughter or not. I used to actually. I don't lie about it anymore. It's for me. Do you have a favorite animal? What inspired you to be like, tell me about your favorite animal. There has to been a reason.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Well, I can. I have favorite animals in general. I have favorite animals in, like, every area.

Speaker A: Okay. Okay.

Speaker B: My favorite ocean animal. Um, it's. Well, it's. It's really cliche, but it's dolphins. I've been obsessed with dolphins forever. I also, I have gotten really into orca recently. I just think they're so freaking smart. Do you know how these things. Do you know how they communicate? It's unreal. It's. If anybody's listening right now, you should just look up, like, orca communication, especially there are these different pods, um, in different areas of the ocean that we're communicating on how to kill great white sharks, which honestly, I think is incredibly unfair because great white sharks are essentially like. They're like dinosaurs. They've been around. They haven't really evolved very much over however long. So I'm like, you have these really smart predators that are communicating with each other and just bullying, like sharks. And it's just. They're so smart. Um, and I think so, maybe, actually, I guess it sounds like my favorite are orcas, but they used to be dolphins, but now, yeah, I'm just obsessed with their intelligence. I think they're very, very cool. And then one of it's. It's really interesting. It's called an ocelot. Uh, it's like a small cat that lives in the rainforest. And it was something that when I was younger, my parents would be like, what do you want for your birthday? And I'd be like, I don't want anything, but I want you to adopt an ocelot. And it was like those things where you pay and then you get an ocelot and it goes to the rainforest or something like that. And so I've always had a soft spot in my heart for ocelots, because that was just like. It was like the donation box that we chose for, uh, rainforest. So what about you? What are your favorites?

Speaker A: Oh, man, that's a good question. Um, when I was a kid, it was a cheetah. I think this is there was fast. And I was like, amaz. Well, that. And then, of course, the peregrine falcon. So it was like the cheetah could do like, 60 or 70 on the ground. The peregrine falcon could do like 200 in a dive. So I remember these as a kid clearly. I liked speed. And now I have to say it's orcas. And, like, watching them hunt, like, and then, like, watch them hunt seals and, like, make the waves to break up the ice and, like, in unison. It's scary. We. We just did, for the first time, a, uh, whale watching here in Seattle. We went out and did it last, uh, Halloween actually took my daughter. Oh, we got to see orcas in person. And, like, I have goosebumps right now. Like, they're so impressive, and it was just so, uh, surreal. But, yeah, I mean, they're just so incredibly smart. I mean, it's not even the. That they're bullying sharks. They're, like, eating shark foie gras. They're, like, going straight for their livers and just taking them out and leaving the rest. Like, they're just, like, they do what they want. I can't imagine any other predator on the planet that has, like, is at an apex the way they are. And you have to appreciate that, like, they're. They're incredibly, uh, impressive animals.

Speaker B: Great. And it's, like, crazy because I'm vegan and so, like, you would think I would not be, like, liking this animal that's such a kill, but it's just what you said, impressive. It's just so impressive that they've been able to figure this out and communicate and. Yeah, I would. Man, they're cool. They're really, really cool.

Speaker A: They are cool. Well, I concur. Um, well, Lindsay, I so appreciate you coming on today and spending some time chatting about your business, because it's the Earth bite. And I loved all these little tips. We're going to in the show notes. We're going to, um, you know, links to your blog. We're going to get some people to read that in addition to, you know, your company, hopefully get some more subscriptions. I'm just thrilled of what you're doing. And, and I just want to thank you again.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me, Seth. Love what you guys are doing here, too. Thanks.

Speaker A: Thank you again for joining us this week on, um, scaling Sustainability. Make sure to subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, itunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you find your podcasts. While you're at it, if you like the show, we'd appreciate a five star rating on itunes. And please pass us on to your friends and colleagues. We look forward to having you join us.