Tactics to Help You Hit 6-Figure HOURS This BF/CM

you are running campaigns on meta to people who are unlikely to repeat purchase on their So there's a math that you can do to do that. But typically it's you have your targeting your lifetime customer list, but you're excluding people who have purchased in the last 90, 100, and 20, 180 Again, it's going to be brand specific you're trying to reactivate them during this time The specific setup that we ran last year that worked really well was one day again because we want to hold meta accountable to a more aggressive attribution window on this type of audience, I is because it's just easier across the wider catalog.

Generally, we set our like 2 to 3 times higher on that campaign than we would for our acquisition campaigns, which is going to be a little bit brand specific. If you have an incremental benchmark, you can use And that was kind of the general setup. And then you just through all of your Black Friday, Cyber Monday assets into and it just yeah, it just I'm okay being much less aggressive on the roster actually set it higher because you you're not only are you discounting, but these are people who are more familiar with you.

so they're more likely to come back net new acquisition And now let's take a listen to the Scalability School podcast. Welcome to another episode of Scalability School and I am here with Brad. We are talking about Black Friday, Cyber Monday, tactic reviews and what happened last year that worked really well. What we're going to do this year, this is going to be one of many episodes about Black Friday, Cyber Monday.

So if you I don't know if you participate in this listener, but there's this time every year called Black Friday seven and basically we don't even know what I know even uses talks about it. Do we all just say BFFs? And there's a lot of there's a lot of PDF out there about this. There's a lot of info about this kind of stuff, but this episode is going to be full of tactical exactly.

Things that you can do, and it's going to be a little quickie episode in terms of things to start thinking about. So Brad, glad to be with you as always. How you doing? By the thought of Black Friday gives me like real anxiety in September.

In September, I know when we're doing this and just become just sends chills up and down my up and down my spine. I was I was showing you before you hit record my my boom boom stick DDC, ddc brand. Actually, I think there might be bigger retail now, but, you know, just got to just got to keep keep hitting the good stuff every day until then. Well, it's almost like in season, right?

Oct one. It's almost, you know, it's almost time to just get that seat belt attached to your desk chair and make sure that you are there. And also, I just want to point out to those of you that are watching and video, if you're not, I have a blackout shade behind me which is taped on my window because it's so hot that I'm trying to keep the heat out of my house. Currently in Santa Barbara in September here.

So that's what it gives you wondering. That's what that is. Along with a lot of my daughters, I'm admiring the wall art personally. Yeah, a lot of really good stuff.

Got the art, got the star charts, I got a mosaic back here that I created. You know, there's a lot of good stuff in But let's go ahead and talk about this. So tactic one free gift gift with purchase flash sale. So last year what hollow did was the flash sale free gift with purchase for one hour on Friday morning.

It was a free beanie over $100, repeated two more times. There was a bunch of other stuff that happened. Do you want to go through kind of what how this worked and what was great about it? Yeah.

If you want to hear the full details of this, we did an episode last year, literally after Black Friday, where we recapped all of these things, and we just figured it would be helpful to rip through these as quickly as we can and just kind of talk about, like, you should be writing down and setting a reminder of doing each of these things to make sure that you're prepared because it is just it's just free game. And so Zach, Zach kind of t this up where he talked about hollow and what they did once your point they did a free gift with purchase which specifically was a free beanie.

If you spent over $100 and they basically just like put together a plain text email and SMS and ripped it out to their audience. And they said, for the next hour, if you spend this much, you're going to get free gift with purchase. We did the same thing for a couple of clients around the same time last year, and we saw basically the exact same result, which was insane hours of of performance. Now you're taking a little bit of a hit by giving away a free gift, but you're changing that for maybe people who wouldn't have bought buying or pulling forward some some revenue that might come in the future, which gives you maybe a little bit more cash today to to to push into spend and just keep cranking up at speed.

And so, you know, Zach saw something like three x his normal hourly pacing revenue. We saw something similar for for those clients. And what's nice about that is you can you can run that like multiple times throughout the course of Black Friday, Cyber Monday. You could do it on the first day of yourself.

You could do it on an actual Black Friday. You can do it on Cyber Monday. You could do it before the shipping cut off. And if you're a brand that has multiple SKUs like you can, you can, you can change the way that people qualify for it, and you can be a little bit more creative because maybe you'll find that you hit your hit your list once and people were kind of exhausted by the, you know, the free the free beanie option.

So maybe you try a free pair of socks or do something different during that time, but I think you can keep it pretty simple. Plain text emails work really well for this, and Zach made the point that I thought was really interesting. There's like the free beanie. It was like a high value gift for them because they were fighting.

They were actually selling a decent amount of them kind of through the traffic on their website anyways. And so you probably have more success if you give a gift that actually has a decent value associated with it, but I'm sure it would. It would work pretty well regardless. We have an awesome tool.

That's a little bit of a secret, and I'd like to tell you about it. It's called the Foxwell MCP. The fossil MCP connects into Claude, connects into your ChatGPT Pro, and it gives you direct access to every single thing we've ever said in the Foxwell founders community. Check it out at Foxwell Digital.

It gives you access to every podcast transcript we've ever put out, every workshop, every course we've put forth. It's honestly very inexpensive for the value that you get. You could get it plugged in and say, put together a report on this account of what I could do better. I mean, it's endless.

What this MCP can do, and I encourage you to check it out today. Foxwell Digital for MCP. We'd love to have you. and there was no exclusions for people that already bought, they just kind of ripped it to them again, which I think is great.

I mean, I think when people are in that mode, right, in that Black Friday, Cyber Monday mode, they know there's deals coming around and something like a free gift can put them over the top. And it's a great move. On profitability. I mean, I don't know, you know, these things didn't the hard cost on them was not enough.

And it definitely outweighed the profitability that came from the rest of it. So I think it's great. I think for you, you said your AOV went up like 30% as well on doing this. So, you know, in terms of doing it longer or more frequently, I mean, I think this is one of those things that if you told people, hey, like, we're going to be doing a free gift with purchase twice a day, once in the morning, once in the evening, you know, and kind of give people that predictability along with reminding them of that.

I think that's something that people would like really even focus in on and try to try to make sure that they're there for that. Because, you know, people love a free little gift, especially if it's a useful one, you know? Yeah. I mean, you're buying almost for somebody else.

And if you can get a little something yourself, that's nice. Yeah. The amount of times in my life has come to me with suffering her cart and she's like, yeah, I was like so close to free shipping. So I was out of this.

It's like, oh my God, they got you. It's like, you need to spend seven more dollars. You spend 20 more dollars. Seven.

Just paying $7 at shipping. Exactly. Whatever. It works, it works.

So yeah, super easy on that. Basically anyone can do like other versions of this. You could you you know, I always like, think of the ramifications of potentially pissing people off. And so, you know, you could just like raise your sale percentages for a little bit, give an additional percent off.

Potentially. The free gift is nice because usually if you can use something that's like high value, low marginal cost to add it to the box that you're already shipping, that's nice. Like the beanie is a great example of that, but there's a bunch of different other ways you can deploy quick little flash sales during your promo. Yeah, totally I agree.

So tactic two was was pacing. And I think you did a video on this last year and you'll update it for this year as well. But but how does this work. You're starting with a revenue goal.

Then you look at the daily Shopify revenue. Then you map the goal for revenue. Can you walk through how to think about this? Yeah.

It's really important that you understand when your revenue is going to happen. So if you are not, even if you are running cost controlled campaigns, but I think it's even more important in like lowest cost campaigns, you know, when you should be thinking about ramping up spend not only on a daily basis throughout Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but also literally hour by hour. There's going to be cases where you want to push more aggressively, and you need to know how those things are going to trend, and you can keep it super simple.

And yes, I will make a follow up video that's custom for this year because Cyber Monday is now back in November after two years of being in December. So everybody's December cops are going to look like shit year over year. So just reminder 2020 6th December could look brutal. That's because Cyber Monday was not there this year.

But I will adjust the video to to be like date relevant as much as I can for for this year too. So the way that you start with this is you probably already have like a forecasted revenue goal for November and December. I like combining them because of the fact that Cyber Monday has been moving around. I think it helps you kind of like normalize a little bit for not quite Q4, but you could do all Q4 if you wanted to, but start with your revenue goal.

So if you want to make ten, $10 million during November or December, you start with that number. Then you go into Shopify and you you grab daily revenue and you plug it into a spreadsheet, and then you just look at percent of revenue by day for the entire period. So if Black Friday was 20% of your revenue, then this year it should also be 20% of your revenue, and that you can just drag the formulas up and down. It's pretty simple.

There's a little bit of coaching that you have to do, but the important thing there is you're not matching it to the date, you're matching it to the day of Black Friday. And that's the thing to account for, right? Right. There's a couple of ways to do this.

You can do total revenue or you can segment it down and do new customer. I like new customer for ad spend pacing but repeats also helpful because it'll help you understand like when did we send emails last year. So we know that we're comping similarly year over year and we keep that same plan. But yeah very simple.

Start with the revenue. Go look at daily Shopify. You can export that. You can throw it into a spreadsheet.

I'll make a template that you can you can seal in future episode. And then yeah, just map that out. The way to make this a little bit more useful even further is go into like hourly pacing during Black Friday. So probably starting Friday, but maybe even Thanksgiving would be helpful to to start with or depending on whenever you start your sale, you can do hourly pacing so you can see when sales occurred on your website, because everybody does the same thing every single year.

They say Black Friday feels like maybe slow in the evening because everybody rip throughout the morning because they were waking up from their turkey coma and they were online radio shop. And then and then everybody's back to work on Monday and people are freaking out. They get Cyber Monday slow when really just like, no, it always picks up in the evening and the evening is insane. Like that's when you really need to push.

So the hourly pacing, there's an hourly view in Shopify as well. You can break it down, make the same spreadsheets, you know, when should I be spending and how much should I be spending by? Yeah, I think, you know, the hourly thing is, is massive. And you definitely want to be taking note of that and being aware of that and making sure that that's part of your pacing, because I think it's it's a common one.

And I think this is one of those places with a with a nice pacing document, you can be working with your clients to make sure that they get this and see this, because there's always those classic questions of like, hey, why didn't it do as well? Or why isn't it as good as it has been, you know, and like, you know, also knowing how much you need to be adjusting for for the Saturday, Sunday slump, right. Because people know that stuff's coming back on Monday. So, you know, just making sure that you're walking through it with people to make sure they understand how the pacing goes so that there's it's clear and you know, that you're locked and loaded, especially for not only Black Friday but for Cyber Monday, especially in the evening.

As you said, Saturday, Sunday point is a really big one. Like don't don't keep your budgets the same. No, because you have to be really depressed. It's always trash.

Yeah. I mean I have I have very rarely seen and heard and you know like hey and done myself where it's like, yeah, this Saturday, Sunday. Like it's still pumping like everybody knows because I think we've trained consumers. They know that that this Cyber Monday is, is like the biggest usually the deal because you're trying to squeeze everything out of it.

So you know, and then obviously the deals can kind of extend through the to the last shipping date. But like that's generally when they're going to get the best deal. And people know that. And so we have to just be prepared that like that's when it's going to happen.

And you also have to prepare yourself. Of course that like your results in November are going to look like trash basically until this. And again it's a it's a pacing thing. I think it's important to walk through that important to make that clear to the client or important to make that clear to your boss.

If you're wondering, paid or yourself, if you're the one running paid in a brand like, okay, this is going to take a little bit longer, right? And it's going to look like this as it relates to to the hourly. And so it's good to have the pacing. So let's talk about tactic either really quick thing is the shipping cutoff time like the actual shipping cutoff time.

There's there's more time between Cyber Monday and shipping cut off this year than there has been the last two years now. So if Cyber Monday I think is November 30th, you've now got December 1st. Is there a 31st November? I don't think so.

You got December 1st through like December 12th. Ish is like pretty common. When last year was like I think Cyber Monday was like December 2nd or third and now you've got a much compressed time window. So like that's the other thing that could be a little bit tricky this year is you might actually expect to stretch out the revenue a little bit more because there's more days of shop.

And I don't know that the more days the shop means more revenue necessarily, versus just like you might have slightly slower days, but in aggregate that Black Friday through shipping cut off period might still be the same total revenue. Right. Oh I agree, I think it's it's just important to make sure that you're creating that pacing and that you're setting expectations appropriate across the organization. Tactic three creative strategy.

So you know evergreen ads do fine I think generally speaking. Right. And everybody always tries to create BFM specific assets. It's interesting because BFC assets that are specific worked better last year than previous years.

It was almost like meta algorithmically cranked them differently. And so what was it that did? Well, that was BFC centric around last year. And you know, I know you had mentioned reels.

What else what else was really hitting? You said something in that episode because I relisten to it that I thought was like in hindsight was even like it was really smart in the moment. And it's only been more true. And you brought up the the gem like gem was like starting to be Andromeda, and gem in particular was like starting to be a thing that people talked about last year.

And I think that that's probably a piece of it. So that was it's interesting you kind of saying the algorithm piece again, because there's definitely something to that. But I think it's just like a reminder for everybody two years ago everybody's like, just keep your evergreen assets on. They're going to spend more than your Black Friday stuff anyways.

And last year was the first year that we started to see a real deviation away from that. And we had kind of predicted that because everybody has the ability to crank out more ads. Now, whether you've got craters on tribe and you can ask them to make something which is a pro tip, you should have your creators make something and make sure that they know what the deals are, because they're going to be to crank out stuff for you. But yeah, just making being being intentional about creating Black Friday, Cyber Monday specific assets because last year they worked much better than just leaving evergreen and hoping that that would that would scale you.

Zach actually gave a specific example for hollow where they made 315 Black Friday, Cyber Monday specific ads, and they had 400 evergreen ads live during that stretch. So to break down some of the creative stuff that worked really well last year. So you can start to prep these, get the founder doing anything in the warehouse, talking like walking up the rack, showing all the inventory you could make, have the founder or different people on the team talking about their favorite items.

Obviously you can have creators do that, but I feel like there's something to like the founder being in the warehouse or like the head of marketing, like being in the in the warehouse or with their favorite product saying, like, I'm on the team. This is what I'm looking forward to for the Black Friday sale. This is what I'm buying. Just kind of break down their reasons why and let me just jump in on that.

You know, one of the things that's interesting is one thing that still hits fairly significantly is gift guides. And I think it's because people and the consumers look at a product selection across what you have, and they feel overwhelmed by the amount of choice many times, depending on what you're selling. But, you know, it's tough. And I think there's even even though I think people know generally best sellers many times is just what you're trying to get rid of sometimes and isn't actually bestsellers, although it could be bestsellers plus other things.

Right? But like, I think that still is the most popular place for most people to go. And you know this because you know, you're doing a lot with website optimization and stuff like this now. It's like, so I think the more that you can say, these are my favorite items, these this is why this is a great item for gifting.

This is a great, you know, bundle of items, right? Like bundling, you know, is definitely an awesome one because it's I think the singular item in terms of a gift is also not as powerful depending on what it is. Right? But like Zach talked a lot about what he did with hollow, you know, so much of it was bundling multiple pairs together, making it.

So you're raising the AOF that you're trying, you know, this type of sock, you're trying this type of sock, this type of sock. And you know, you don't know. Right. And so I think that there's there's a lot to be said for that.

And especially when consumers are like, I'm either going to spend $40, I'm going to spend $100, like, I'm gonna spend 100 on the gift to get the bundle. And then I can split them across different people and I'm giving the gifts to, etc.. So my point is, is that I think the here's why. These are our favorite items, here's why these are our best selling items.

And the team walking through that like in the warehouse, all that kind of stuff. I think that's really, really good because it's it's generally true. It's the things that you want that you're like, these are the best things that we have. Here's why we love them.

And I think that kind of authenticity works really well. Ugly ads as as you had talked about last year, like, you know, whiteboard type stuff like that stuff does really well. There's another one that you really like called we're sorry. This is like the name of last year.

Yeah. That's just like everybody's like, sorry to everybody who bought last week. Our deals better this week. Like super.

It's super cringey. But we ran it everywhere. And of course it worked everywhere. Yeah, sure.

I'm sure. Several people on Twitter claimed that they were the first one that did it. Yeah, but yeah, that was that's always a classic. One of my favorites is just like a dumb, easy one.

And the way that we talked about it last year was just like having the product in a Christmas setting is so like literally holding your t shirt in front of the Christmas tree. And now you can go to nano banana for sure. Like last year, it was maybe a little sketchy, like now you can literally just like take your flat photo and throw it into GPT or Gemini or whatever and get a really solid prompt back that looks like a real Christmas setting. It yeah, it works extremely well just doing that.

I love the comment reply or the reply on the comment of will he be having a Black Friday sale and taking out the comment, and then like putting that in the in the video of like, yes, we are going to be having one and it's here, you know, like I love that kind of concept. There's something to like the common reply that feels like you're it's like more than just like answering the question. It's like, maybe you're engaging with people. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because we see the same thing with pricing, like people are like. But this is like the comment we always draw up is like, oh, but this is really, really expensive.

And then it's a video of the founder replying to the comment of why it's expensive and what they put into it and all that, and that always crushes. And now you can take all of these. One of the things Zach said last year is you can you can turn the warehouse ad into a video, you can put stats. He said he had the the Gaylord of like the big USPS box with a ton of packages in it.

It's like overlay the promo on top of it so people feel the FOMO of missing out on that. So yeah, ton of different creative ideas that you can you can. Yeah, I think those are I think those are good. I think the big one is, yes, algorithmically.

And I think with with gem, there's a lot of signal that comes out of obviously what the ad is saying. And I think if it's some people are going to be, you know, so much of it is about serving to people that are in your potential audience pool that are going to be responding. Some people are going to respond to sale messaging, some people are not. And giving the option across your suite of ads that you're running for those to be there is a big one.

And so, you know, some people are going to resonate with evergreen and some people going to resonate with the promo. And I think you want to have both, and you don't want to try to separate those too much. So tactic for campaign structure. Actually, let me jump back what I said, you know what, separate those two.

Much like you can put them in the same container. Like it's okay. That doesn't I get asked I get asked that a lot to like, hey, do I need to have like a separate promo assets? Like, he's probably just put it in like a CBO and like, let it run and see what it serves where it's probably the easiest, I would imagine.

But you could also probably put them in a, in a preexisting asset ad set. Right. And like rip it from there. So yeah, a lot of ideas.

All right. Campaign structure tactic for. So let's talk about this because BFC and specific campaigns that were set outside the normal evergreen campaigns, having a mineral as min value worked great cost cap stuff was okay. Can you talk more about this what you saw last year?

And then I'll comment what I saw from founder members. All right, friends, quick break. This episode is brought to you by North Beam, the marketing attribution platform that we love over here at Scalability School. If you're a marketer, I mean, you probably agree, right?

Incremental testing is broken. They were. These tests require tons of labor spreadsheets to reference, and the designing of the test is slow and error prone. How are you supposed to know what to test in the first place?

Right. There's a million factors that can make incremental testing difficult. But the good news is North Beam has completely changed the game and they fix this. Only North Beam incrementally automates your incremental test design and monitoring, while protecting you from the major mistakes that plague incremental testing.

North beam builds tests using your own MTA data, launches them directly in ad platforms, and automatically monitors them throughout. If something threatens validity, you're alerted before it ruins the result. With North Beam, you can launch tests in platform with a single click, saving you tons of time and reducing any chance for errors. And when the test concludes, your results flow straight into your MTA, meaning you can easily see results alongside the rest of your data.

Incrementally. Was broken. North beam fixed Yeah. So it was like a it's a follow up to the point that you were just making where what was the actual campaign structure?

We tend to build a Black Friday specific campaign, but I don't think it's the end of the world to throw it in an ad set within your existing CBOs. You just need to be conscious of of margins and how that works for existing products. But your products are discounted anyways, so like doesn't matter if it goes into the same CBO. Probably not.

It just depends on your your bidding. So where we saw the most success was definitely using value optimization, particularly on catalogs that had a handful of products and a bunch of different deals, because you have to account for the discounts across a bunch of different SKUs, right? If you're a high skew count apparel brand and you have up to 70% off, well, you have a bunch of different bunch of different price points. You have to know where you can set your your minimum saga based on what you're actually expecting to sell unit wise and the discounts across those units.

So minerals was nice, a nice way of like stabilizing that and just making that much simpler cost cap was okay. We just didn't see as much volume last year. I'll be interested to see if that differs. But we always have a value campaign and a volume campaign, whether that's min row and cost cap or just like auto bidding up to you.

But I like to have both because if you need more volume, you can flip one on. It's already pre-built, or you can have them both on at the same time and they occasionally hit different customers. We tend to use seven day click primarily, but we saw a lot of success with one day click, which I think just it's the shortened buying window. And so it kind of fits the fits that theme.

But David Herman specifically last year was talking a ton about incremental incremental attribution during Black Friday. And obviously it's been a really hot topic this year. I'm curious how that does, you know, like I think if you my logical understanding of incremental attribution is like, hey, it's the model is built on holdout tests. And so I don't know if it can optimize as quickly on a short window.

I just don't I don't know, I haven't seen it work consistently across accounts enough where first versus seven day click or one day click. But it's it's worth worth trying. And then the other, the other thing I'll just kind of close with is like, we just left the evergreen on and you can then you can scale up Evergreen and Black Friday interchangeably depending on how performance looks. So that's kind of the first core of the campaign structure.

Anything on that before I go into the retention retention. I think I think the big one is I think so much of BFS stuff for so long was very dogmatic in the approach of like, all right, do this then and then this and then this and this and this, and this is how you're going to achieve success. Right. And I think a lot of it today is and a lot of it the last few years has been that you need a, you need a mixture of a lot of ideas.

Then you need to like, have stuff that's ready to scale that, you know is doing well, like evergreen. But you also need to make sure that you're utilizing cost caps and min Roas in volume. You know, like in, in a way that is going to be effectively like spending when it can, but also saving you on the back side from the back slide, you know. So like and it makes you know seven we did a lot of seven day click.

I think one day click is in certain areas also works well. So it's not one thing. It's like a combination of all of these things and utilizing them in different ways. And if you run your campaigns enough and deeply like that's I think a big one, the big you'll know this.

And, you know, in the nuances of this, I think that we're talking about Foxtel founder members and looking what they did like. Certainly there was actually a certain amount of like capping and utilizing mineral, as in the places that they were a little bit outside of the normal evergreen, like where they were taking a little bit more risk in terms of a creative type or something. That was a big part of it. And yes, evergreen also stayed on.

So definitely in agreement with you on that. That was also big. So yeah, let's talk about retention and what you, what you saw there from previous custodes. Yeah.

The one thing, the one thing that I would say is you probably want to build a couple of extra campaigns, because the last thing you want to do is try to get more volume than when you increase the budget. It's not spending. And then you try to build a campaign from scratch. And meta is not approving it fast enough.

So like, don't be afraid to have some backup campaigns pre-built out so you can you can flip those on if you need to get more volume. The retention campaign. So this is this is like I've been I've been hammering this for like this is probably the fifth time I brought this up in a dedicated episode. But the long story short of this is you are running campaigns on meta to people who are unlikely to repeat purchase on their own.

So there's a math that you can do to to do that. But typically it's like you have your targeting your lifetime customer list, but you're excluding people who have purchased in the last 90, 100, and 20, 180 days. Again, it's going to be brand specific and you're trying to reactivate them during this time period. The specific setup that we ran last year that worked really well was one day click again because you want to be we want to hold meta accountable to a more aggressive attribution window on this type of audience, I think is because it's just easier across the wider catalog.

Generally, we set our target like 2 to 3 times higher on that campaign than we would for our acquisition campaigns, which is going to be a little bit brand specific. If you have an incremental benchmark, you can use that. And that was kind of the general setup. And then you just through all of your Black Friday, Cyber Monday assets into that and it just yeah, it just rips I'm okay being much less aggressive on that row as target just or yeah, much less aggressive on the roster meaning actually set it higher because you like you're not only are you discounting, but these are people who are more familiar with you.

And so they're more likely to come back than than net new acquisition and an additional way, if you have again back to like a high skew apparel brand like a DPA works really well for those. But I would keep it separate from that campaign just because of the way that DPI optimizes. I have a little bit of like a follow up point on the destination thing, which is like kind of part of campaign structure, but also gets into landing pages for this time period a little bit, which I'm, I imagine probably going to have someone episode for Black Friday landing pages and what to do.

But any any retention campaign questions before I die. Yeah. No, I think it's good. I think one thing that certainly founder members talked about was utilizing what you just said, which is inflating it to a point in terms of making it higher because they're going to come back, you know, and making sure that you're not trying to like, I don't know, let that go as, as, as, as easily as you would in other places because it's going to be higher.

So I think that's good. And, you know, definitely days are a big part of it. Making sure that you're separating those, as you said, is huge. But if you have customizable days for people and showing off more of the catalog, that's going to be a good thing for people, especially that know you and utilizing them in prospecting too.

But, you know, I think as much as you can, separating that out is going to be good. And if you've not customized them before, you know, using it a tool, definitely do that. I think that's going to it makes it easier for consumers to see the product. It's not just on a white background, etc.

there's like good as the AI is a good example of one that can do that. So just just throwing that out there and okay, so let's talk about landing pages, which is its own big thing. But what have you done. And then I'll talk about what I saw.

Yeah I'm I'm really interested this year because I have a lot more ideas based on this, how this went last year. But we saw a couple of accounts where the, the, the type of traffic really mattered for the destination page. So in the case of net new customers, most of the evergreen stuff continued to work really well. So you want to mix of landers that are, you know, funnel congruent that we've been talking about relentlessly this year.

So you definitely want that for net new acquisition. You just want to make sure that you overhaul those to make sure that the announcement bar or the shop section, the offer section is like consistent with what your Black Friday offer actually is. So you want to make sure you update those. And then PDP's and best sellers page.

Great for new customers like those. Those tend to work really well. They're spending less time trying to figure out what to buy and more on. This is a sweet item.

Like, I just saw an ad for your six Spider-Man hoodie that you're wearing, and I don't want to land on a collection page where I have to go find it like it's at the top of the collection page, or I'm going directly to the PDP. That works really well for new customers, for returning customers specifically, we actually saw just like doing a better job of curating a Black Friday specific collection where you show like, hey, these are actually the best discounts. And it didn't line up with the best product because they probably already own the best product.

They don't. They don't need to come back and buy that same thing. Maybe they want to explore the catalog a little bit more and they want the best deal. And that's what they care about is like, cool.

I already trust this brand and willing to take a risk on this item that maybe I wouldn't, but it's 40% off or 70% off, so f it, I'm going to load up my cart. So I'm really curious to see how that does again this year. But the type of traffic was was super interesting there. And I have a bunch of ideas for like net new pages this year, but I think we should we should say that for for a separate episode.

But what were you saying? I mean, I think so much of it is like so much of this stuff in thinking about, landing pages and going to new versus returning, I think is a huge differentiation that you just don't hear about that often. In terms of a tactic, I think the big one is people are going to want to shop during this period of time. So the more that you can go through and design landing pages that are for people in that journey, and you give meta options for people in different parts of their journey with you, the better off you're going to be.

We know that people love a bundle like we talked about. We know that people are curious about the best sellers. We know they're curious about what makes you great, right? So trying different versions of social proofing of, you know, product demoing, of showing the product and what it's actually like in somebody's house on video.

Like the more that you bring these things forward, the better off you're going to be. I think that there's so much of it that's built around CMO, CRO, that's built around getting people to click by and convert and add to cart and everything, which is good. And that's where a lot of optimization lives, and it should live there. But it's also it disrespects, to a degree, the customer journey itself in terms of like where people are at head space wise and giving them the options that speak to that.

So it's not just about a bestseller page, but it's about why are these the best sellers? What have they done? How many units of them have you sold? How many have been returned?

How many? You know, what are the reviews on these products? What are the what are the features people love about this product? Can they search the reviews easily to answer questions like, there are these things that we all do that you that you do as a consumer, but you don't necessarily know.

Think about it as a marketer sometimes. So I encourage you, as you kind of go through mapping this out, I think landing pages and the variation on landing pages, along with variation and creative, is a massive one to think about because it's going to unlock all different types of, you know, of customer. Not just personas, but angles, customer segments, you know, and customer buying behaviors as well. Yeah.

And and like the other the other thing is like it's not you're not only connecting your ad messaging to the landing page and funnel that they're landing on, but you don't want you want the offer to be consistent from all the things that they're clicking. So if they landed on a landing page, that offer should be consistent with what's on the in the announcement bar, on the actual website or on the PDP or very clearly on the collection page. But if you're going from a lander to a PDP and then all of a sudden you have a pop up on that, that's like, hey, get 10% off, which has like nothing.

It's just like your evergreen email pop up that you just like always run and you didn't switch it for. Black Friday is like, okay, now it's time to switch it for for Black Friday to make it, you just got to make it all consistent, which means they need to update your welcome flow to make sure that's flowing into the right places and that the messaging is accurate. One other quick thing that I didn't write down, I just remembered though, is usually a couple of weeks before, like Black Friday is really starting to pick up.

So maybe mid-November or maybe even early November. We tend to we've swapped over the pop up to say, get the offer today. Same offer, like if you run a 10% evergreen, just adding the messaging that's like. Plus, be the first to know about our Black Friday deals that that increase opt in rate pretty significantly, which had like conversion rate didn't change.

So like you just got more people and people were still buying today. It's like it wasn't like you were kicking the can on those people, but they just they built the list a little bit more. So speaking of like being consistent in the short term, you know, pre Black Friday you can update your pop up to just like sneak in that wording. And then during Black Friday the pop up should be consistent with the offer.

And honestly like I don't have any data for this yet but I just wonder if pop ups are even like super valuable during Black Friday. Maybe they are because you are bouncing between websites and trying to shop, but also like, should we be distracting people from shopping? I'm not sure. So to be determined, right?

Right right right. We'll see. Daisy at last. But here it is.

So on the final tactic, what are your takes on a of. Yeah. And how's I mean I feel like last year there was a lot of discussion that's acted that was absolute mastery on this with hollow. So let's talk through this.

What what's your take on from 3 to 3, 2 to 2 etc.. Yeah I think this is one like you, if you probably got all of the source from, from from this episode by without listening to that one, but I think this specific section is probably worth going and hearing from, from the horse's mouth, Zach, directly by going back and listening to that. And I'm sure, sure, I'm sure Shane will link that up for us. But he said something that was super interesting, which was he's kind of like, hey, on those website, we were doing a three for three offer, so it was a great deal.

You're getting, you know, by three, get three free. And but his concern was like, hey, we're kind of like pricing people out. Like, you're spending $150 before you get this offer. And they keep the offer like fairly evergreen throughout the year where they ran that offer for a long time.

And then they kind of keep a consistent during Black Friday, minus the flash sale stuff we talked about at the top. And he's like, we're just pricing people out. Like people are there shopping and looking for a deal. And the people who are just never going to spend $150 on this product are just going to leave.

They're not going to buy because they don't qualify for the best offer. And so they just lowered it from three for 3 to 2 for two. Obviously Alvie down Aly went down but went down faster. And so your Amy goes up and all of a sudden you've got a better you've got a better margin profile on that, which allows you to actually scale more effectively into that which, you know, maybe not as much for hollow, but for other brands like that has that can have massive implications on your your LTV, because obviously you have a bigger customer list to go off of.

The last thing I'll say on this is we just have we have clients come to us from time to time and they're like, we need to figure out to increase our AOV. Just like, I don't know if that's like actually the goal. Like I don't think it is the goal, like the goal is to figure out how to find the right ratio of of AOV to calculate. And it doesn't mean increasing AOV at all costs.

Now, increasing AOF might give you a little bit more space, but it's just like finding that leverage between increasing it but not increasing it so much that all of a sudden your cart puts you backwards and Amr can help be the measure of that. So yeah. TLDR they went from three for 3 to 2 for two, and that allowed them to scale really, really heavily because it just lowered the barrier to entry for a lot of people. Yeah.

It's beautiful. Well look, we thought this was going to be 20 minutes and we are sitting at 35 minute episode full of value. There's going to be a lot more from us coming on this. If you have questions, feel free to email me Andrew at Fox Digital.

I will send it on to Brad and involve him in SAC if needed. Otherwise, keep on listening, keep rating and thank you very much for being here everyone and have a great rest of your day. The only way that we grow this podcast is by you sharing it with your friends. Honestly, like reviews kind of don't really mean anything too much anymore.

They're really meaningful, but they don't do a lot for the growth of the podcast. And so sharing YouTube links, sharing Spotify links, sharing Apple, whatever we call it under the podcast app now, anything you can share, the better we're going to be. Guys, anything else you want to say on this? Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube.

Rack up those views for us. We'd love to see it and then subscribe. Make sure to subscribe on YouTube as well. And I relentlessly refresh the YouTube comments because it dictates my mental health for the day.

So please say something nice about all of us. Thank you everyone. Thanks for listening. Honestly.