WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN IN TODAY'S MARKET IN B2B SALES AND SELLING

Speaker A: Hey, before we get into the interview I want to make sure you're aware of our uh, other podcasts, the Sales Questions Brutally Honest Answers show, which is a very quick under five minutes in most cases, sometimes just a few minutes where I answer your questions. You can just send me any question to my uh, LinkedIn profile, Brian G. Burns, and I'll put it in the queue to answer. Also the Sales Leadership Show. If you're looking to get into sales leadership or you want to hear from the world's best sales leaders, that's where I interview them.

Speaker B: Check it out.

Speaker A: The Sales Leadership show also@b2b revenue.com you can learn all about all the courses. Links are in the show notes below as well as our link to our partners over@brevitypitch.com the fastest, easiest way to become great at sales and practice before it's showtime.

Speaker B: Here we go. Hey Jimmy, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Speaker C: Yeah, thanks Brian. It's great to uh, be here. I'm a big fan. Uh, yeah, so a little bit of background. Um, I'm 50 years wise so just, just hit the big five zero. I um, live in park, uh city Utah with my lovely uh wife Kelly who's been in sales her whole career. And uh, we have a little uh 18 month old furry friend named Roman. So a little uh 15 pound miniature Aussie doodle and keeps uh us on her toes. Uh, I grew up in Iowa. Um, have you heard of Iowa before Brian?

Speaker B: I have. Is that in the United States or is that.

Speaker C: It's not the potato state, it's that they have great sweet corn. Um, yeah, learned a lot about hard work and values. Family of five, three older brothers, we're always getting called to go out and, and do uh, things that most people have probably never heard of like detasseling corn, uh, walking beans, bailing hay, um and very uh, proud to uh grow up there and lot of learned a lot about hard work and principles and values and uh, um those sort of things and then uh, from a sales career standpoint. So I started my career with Pitney Bowes, um and spent uh, about 10 years with them and got uh, some great uh, uh foundational sales training and leadership, uh principles there and learnings and uh, um ever thankful for that and uh, still look back and tell stories about the things that we used to do there and stuff and, and then just uh, went to work uh in leadership with Apple, um and spent a few years there and then I transitioned out of leadership. Uh, um, my wife is younger than me, and she was on this path with her career to move up into leadership. So I decided, well, I need to get into something where I can live anywhere and kind, uh, of do anything. So got into this world of enterprise SaaS and, uh, um, uh, worked for a great company called Cornerstone. And now I'm at an organization called Mentor Click.

Speaker B: And what was it like going from big companies? Pitney Bowes huge. Apple enormous.

Speaker C: Yeah, um, that was interesting. You know, um, somebody taught me a long time ago to come up with what your personal work values are. Jimmy. It took me some years to do this. And number, number. I won't go into all of those right now because that's like a thesis. But number five is agility. And so, um, that really helped me. Going from a company that had everything and every, all the processes in place to a smaller company that you're like, how do we make coffee?

Speaker B: Where are the cups?

Speaker C: Oh, we don't have cups. Go get them. Yeah, because, yeah, um, sales.

Speaker B: That's so much different when you go to a startup because, you know, you call people. Everyone's heard of Apple. Yeah, most people have heard of Pitney Bows, but it's a very different sale when you have to, like, start with, you know, the whole category.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's interesting. And, you know, every one of those companies that I work for has been the leader. And now, now Mentor Click. And, um. And so that's one thing I've kind of been. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I've kind of figured out, well, like, find the best company that's the best at what they do and work for them. And, you know, the thing with, uh, if I can just tell you a little bit about the company I work for now. Is that okay?

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker C: Yeah. So, um. Uh, so it's Mentor Click. It's an employee mentoring software platform. And I was reading a report the other day that said, like, it's like 92% of Fortune 500 companies are doing mentoring. 100% of Fortune 50 companies are doing mentoring. Um, I would argue within those companies, 90% of the people don't even know mentoring exists. Um, certainly, uh, you have women being underrepresented when it comes to mentoring diverse groups like black talent. And, uh, and that's why we exist. We just take that and make mentoring, uh, sustainable, scalable, and provide meaningful outcomes. And it's just been, ah, it's been a pleasure. I gravitate towards that. I've had some Great mentors in my career. And. And, um.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, that sounds like a great idea, but I bet it's not easy to sell. Where do you start?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, uh, I guess it's a matter of, um, um, you know, trying to, you know, doing your research, trying to identify the types of organizations that are like, for example, like Diversity Inc. Top 50 type companies.

Speaker B: And uh.

Speaker C: And a lot of times it's uh, it's a technology that doesn't exist within organizations, which is unique versus other things. So it's. A lot of. This is very interesting. We don't have a budget, you know, do nothing, no decisions. But, um, if you, you do the right thing and stay in touch, follow up, uh, usually good things happen.

Speaker B: And who owns that problem? Is it HR or is it, um, line of business?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, generally speaking, it's. It's, you know, hr, Your, uh, you know, talent development, uh, de. And now is. Is being really formed with all the things that have happened in the last few years and kind of falls can fall under that umbrella. But a lot of times we're doing mentoring that uh, is more like coaching, so more skill development. So that might fall under a specific business unit like sales or IT or finance or whatever that's trying to, you know, align, uh, not so much mentoring, but coaches with specific new. New employees or high potentials.

Speaker B: And I, I talk to, and I work with a lot of reps who do sell to hr and they're super nice people, but their budgets and their change agents, uh, not so much.

Speaker C: Yeah, you. You got that right. It's not the easiest thing. I say simple but not easy.

Speaker B: And I got a. Your main objection or obstacle is nice to have versus must.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, of course I would say it's a must. Have. Um, we've seen tremendous. I, I have to say that right. And we're on record. But, um. Uh, you know, we have tremendous data points around ROI and, And you know, reduction in turnover and. And uh, promotions and things like that. But, uh, yeah, I, I don't think we're like, uh, you know, the world of you need a copy, get a Xerox, you need a, you need a phone, get, uh, a mobile device, get an iPhone, that type of thing. I don't think it's there yet, but, um, hopefully we'll get there.

Speaker B: How do you get your reps and yourself when you're involved in the deal? Because probably getting the demo is pretty easy. Not easy, but possible. Maybe an evaluation, but when it goes up to get funded.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's, that's the. I think the secret sauce is getting people just to see something that they've never seen. You know, if I, I tell my team if it's like if you had never heard of a car or you've never driven a car and you've heard of a car and uh, I tried to verbally explain it to you, it's like get them to see it. And uh, and we've had some unbelievable experiences that people were like, I'm not really ready, that type of thing. Or um, don't uh, have a budget. Well, I know you don't have a budget because it's, it doesn't really exist within organizations as far as a tech, um, so to speak. So.

Speaker B: And how have you kind of mentored your team to become good at selling into that environment? Because most people, they're very comfortable in the beauty contest type sale. We're looking at three vendors in this category. Uh, there's some curiosity, interest and urgency around it, but I think when there's emerging technologies, of course the ROI is there, but somebody has to get it.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, there's a certain rhythm to it for sure. And uh, I'm a big believer that slow and steady wins the race. You um, have to, you know, you have to really manage your, your time and, and you know these leads that, that uh, um, or companies that you talk to that now see it, but maybe they're still not ready. You got to have timely follow up and uh, um. And I think that's what people want, you know, patiently, persistent because mentoring or coaching is going to come up, um, at some point, you know, for sure. And when that does, somebody says ah, ah, I saw that purple company and it was really cool.

Speaker B: We did something with this.

Speaker C: Yeah. And oh, by the way, uh, this, this person is still staying in touch with me and I like how they do it and they share insight, information and you know, invite us to events and things like that.

Speaker B: Now how did you, or how do you maintain that mindset? The patient persistent. Is that part of the farming background or. Because that's, yeah, you.

Speaker C: I would say, uh, I mean for me it just comes back to like, you know, hard work. Um, and, and yeah, it's that farming thing. It's like this is very much a plant, the seed type of uh, industry and farmers can't just plant seeds. You know, September every morning was probably out looking at his field, checking things out, you know, and, and uh, you just have to get into that rhythm of doing that. Um, and that's. That's the key piece. And some people don't want to do that. You know, they want the instant gratification. And, um, where they say good things come to those who wait or. Or what have you.

Speaker B: Well, and this is kind of the key differentiator or one of them between the simple sale and the complex sale. Yeah. Is that, you know, waiting for the gratification.

Speaker C: Right, right. And you, uh, got to celebrate the little wins. You know, that's. That's the big thing in. In this world and in enterprise software world, you got to celebrate the little wins.

Speaker B: And how do you keep the team focused on that and not try and, you know, push for the close on that first call or at the end of the month or quarter when it's. Everyone knows it's not ready, but, like, why not try?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's the $62 million question. Uh, I, um, think a lot of it is, uh, lead by example. Um, don't ask people to do things that you wouldn't do yourself. And uh, um, you know, you got to be cohesive and work together as teams to come up with ideas and keep people, uh. Um, I guess, lack of better words maybe, like keep people together and thinking the same thing and working together and, um, uh, you know, follow up is king. And uh, it's just, uh. It certainly helps when people start to see successes when that happens, you know, and then you've got to celebrate those and first beating them up on the. Not doing it. Celebrate the. The wins.

Speaker B: Yeah. And how do you interview for that type of personality? Because a lot of salespeople, you know, they've been conditioned, trained, rewarded on the stimulus response.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker C: I guess, you know, you want to. In my, in my. In my mind, you want to be really, really thoughtful about the type of person that, like, I've done this job myself, um, and, um, I understand what that really means. And you want to be really thoughtful about the type of, first of all, how you present what you're looking for, and then be very thoughtful about the types of questions. Um, you know, so I would say you want somebody with that farming mindset that, that the. The same type of mindset that it takes to run our rhythm, um, versus how they did it now and really understanding that. Um, and, uh, of course, if they've been successful running this type of rhythm, which there are orgs out there that are like that, that kind of fit into that, you know, a little bit different category of, uh, um, nice to have, and, uh, if they've ran rhythms that align with that? Um, that's, that's the key piece. Starting there.

Speaker B: And what types of questions have you found? Like either an indirect question because I'm working with a leader right now on this.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: Uh, you know that one. Um, you know, a lot of it is to me, like situational based stuff. Tell me about a time. Um, uh, what are the biggest challenges you find? Uh, you know, things like that. I probably have to put some more thought into that. I know I have like a list of interview questions probably pulled up, but, uh, um, I don't know. What are your thoughts around that?

Speaker B: The one I came up with was during the interview process, bring up, hey, companies, you know, offering this 401k and I'm not sure what to do with this. What are your thoughts about 401ks? Is it in retirement? How do you feel about that?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Because the people who have the long view are going to be like, oh, yeah, you save a little now and in 30 years you're a gazillionaire. And the other person's like, no, man, you could. Don't worry about it. Just put it into real estate and let's go skiing. Yeah. There's the, you know, immediate gratification and the delayed gratification.

Speaker C: Yeah, right, right. For sure.

Speaker B: And you know, it's a good one. As humans, we're really bad at delayed gratification, especially nowadays.

Speaker C: Well, people want everything instantly, you know, Absolutely.

Speaker B: Immediately.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And that's not how this works.

Speaker C: Nope, nope. That's why I say slow and steady wins the race.

Speaker B: And what's the hardest part of your job?

Speaker C: I, um, would say the, uh, the um, the hardest part is probably, um. Well, I think people think as a VP that, that um, everything's always like rainbows and unicorns and uh, um, you know, that, that uh, we don't like, maybe. I would like to think that most VPs care about people. Um, I know people that know me know I immensely care about people sometimes like probably to a fault. Um, but I think it's that balance of, of driving the business and then making sure that you're putting culture and people, um, you know, in front of that and uh, and making sure that, that that's understood with your team.

Speaker B: And do you get resistance? Maybe it's not the right time to ask either through the board or leadership because, you know, it is a business and everyone's got their own expectations of what it takes. Yeah, I've never really, I've had great leaders that understood this, but at the End of the quarter, things kind of shift a little. Board meetings happen and all of a sudden.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's, uh, it's. It's a good question. I need to think about that a second. Um, uh, I would say that, that, um, you know, that there's a tendency to like push panic buttons, you know. And um, I feel like, you know, especially at like end of quarter or end of year, things like that. But um, uh, this is where, this is one of those balancing acts where you're in the middle of like upper leadership or the board or whatever and you've got to filter those things out. And um, and, and I, I don't know, I have a. I, I see some people like, will push panic buttons and start throwing a ton of things at people when you're trying to like run a system. And you know, I talk a lot about. Don't look at. I'm a big sports fan and Nick Saban. I'm not an Alabama fan, but Nick Saban talks about focus on the play. Focus on the six seconds of the play. Do the six seconds. Don't look at the scoreboard. Well, the end of the quarter we start looking at the scoreboard and. And then we start running a ton of different plays. And at the end of the day, it really comes down to sticking to the fundamentals and the blocking and tackling has to continue, you know, um, yeah.

Speaker B: Because, you know, what keeps coming up when you use either farming analogies is the hunter, farmer mentality and people. And I think people misinterpret the farmer that they, they're just managing accounts as opposed to. There's a, um, circadian rhythm of the day, there's seasons of the year. Mhm. That if you understand the process and you, and you work consistently every day that it naturally works out.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's.

Speaker B: But the farmer just says, well, just go shoot a deer. Yeah.

Speaker C: Right, right.

Speaker B: Well then you need to have. Find a deer. Right, right in range. Yeah. And have good aim and then find a way of getting the deer back. And, And I think enterprise sales, although you need, you need the farming mentality to understand the process and not look at it as account management or servicing the account.

Speaker C: Yeah. And there's a, there's a balance in there of like, you know, hunting, you know, hunting and farming. And you could argue there could be one in the same. Then there's gatherers, there's types of jobs that are gathering that tends to be more like retail sales, you know, like, um. But yeah, you're. There's got to Be a consistent way. The farmer can't say, well, let me go out to the field one day and then 14 days later, and then I'll do it. I think, oh, the crops look like they're getting a little. They haven't been tended to. So, um, you've got to, you've got to have that system in that rhythm and continue to do that. And I find that like most sales people in farming type environments will, like, they'll, they'll go to the field. I'll use that analogy. We'll stick with it a couple times, and then they're not reaping the reward. So then they'll stop. Yeah. And it's those that go back and go back and, and uh, I don't know, I call them the top 10 percenters. Those people that do that usually will win.

Speaker B: And what skills other than that would you build into a rep? Let's say you had crispr or you were building. You had the ability to build a rep. Yeah.

Speaker C: Well, I look at it like I learned this from my, from my training days and quite frankly from just, um, probably going back to Pitney Bows. Uh, the. I look at like there's five key areas, uh, pillars, column. You know, what you want with. In, in sales to be successful, you need to know your, your certainly your industry. Okay. You need to know your product, you need to know your competition, you need to know the tools that will help you be more effective at your job, you know, better at your craft. And the last one is sales process. And you could argue like methodology. Right. And, uh, it's interesting, Brian, because my fifth year at Pitney Bowes, I was fortunate enough to do really well and uh, went from an individual contributor to a leader on an advisory council. And then I got an opportunity to go into training. And uh, so I flew to. We moved to California like the Beverly Hillbillies, packed up our pickup truck and dog, and away we went from this little town in Iowa of 800 people to Los Angeles. And here we go. And uh, so I was in, in charge of training for seven states all along the West Coast, Alaska and Hawaii. And uh, first thing I asked is, I said, hey, I want to go to the regions and meet the top performers. And some of them I've known from advisory or clubs and stuff. And uh, like most of them did like those first, the, all the, those five things really well, um, industry, product, competition, tools, sales process. But what I found out with the top performers is they went deeper into sales methodology. So they were talking about five minutes with veto selling the Vito spin selling, you know, stop, uh, stop telling and start selling all of these old classic methodologies. And uh, um. So I look at all five of those things and I think a lot of leaders spend most of their time on the fifth one sales process, you know, prospecting, closing, and they, they leave the training part behind. Um, so I'm really looking at those five areas and people that are constantly wanting to get better in all of those areas and they're going to go get that. They're the best.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because. And that's been consistent with the people I interview with is that if somebody doesn't have a system, a process, whatever they call it, methodology, and then there's the rest that kind of a reactive wing. It, um, hail Marriott or you know, call Mr. Big Cheese or Mrs. Big Cheese at the end of the quarter, found kind of the, the simple sales stuff applied to the complex sale I always found was a disaster. But the people who kind of understand the game they're playing.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's ah, it's certainly important to stay on top of things and understand things and, and um, you know, a lot of people are big on the relationship, what I think is important. But at the end of the day, um, people want to buy from people that will help them make that process easier and efficient and will follow up and do things with integrity and, and things like that. I don't know if they care that I grew up in Iowa and I like, I don't know, it's m. Entertaining the Iowa Hawkins or something. You know, it's like people get hung up. You know, there's a lot of like, oh, they really like me. They really like me. It's like I, I mean, I got a great relationship. Like really, like. I mean, I've been married to my wife for 20 years and we've had a few fights and we have a great relationship. I don't know if you're three or four conversations. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean if the relationships about the interaction between the two people, that's good, that's rapport. But is the relationship around solving the problem that they have that you have the solution for?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: That's the relationship you really want.

Speaker C: Exactly. Helping them solve business needs and helping them arrive at like, how they can actually acquire this solution, especially in this world of, uh, you know, must, you know, are, you know, nice to have. Right.

Speaker B: And I'm guessing that this sale is also a lot more complex than your previous sales. More people involved, maybe more money, more change on the client. Side.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, especially, like, Post Covid. Um, Post Covid has definitely changed the number of people that it takes to make a decision, you know, because people, I, I. This is my opinion, but I think people can get involved in making decisions because they're not all, like, driving into the corporate office, you know, they're working virtually. So, like, hey, why don't you join this? And pretty soon you have, um. And I. And I also think people are more cautious with making decisions with software. There's more around data privacy and security and things like that. So, um, yeah, it's almost like there are sales within the sale, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely all the way along. And what skill do you wish you had more of or you feel would take your game to the next level?

Speaker C: As a leader or as a individual contributor?

Speaker B: Um, either. Whichever one you think.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, boy, there's a. There's a ton of them. But, uh, I mean, I'm a. That's a. That's a good one. Uh,

Speaker B: Because you got an interesting background, and I. I like the. Going into the training side because that's the. Probably the best preparation to become a leader.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: As you get to work with other

Speaker B: reps and you get to understand how those rascals think, and you learn how crazy different.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting. I think, like, my personality type is. Is kind of unique from a, uh, sales leader. If you've taken disc. I'm not the D dominant. I'm the. I'm the is person. And, uh. Um, it's interesting. Uh, best salesperson I ever met in my life. Gentleman named Ed Deba from San Francisco. No longer with us. But, uh, um, this resonated with me because he's, you know, you talk about skill, like a sales skill. And what I wish I had better is closing, um, and people that when Ed said this, he told me this too. Like, that's his biggest opportunity. I'm like, you're the best salesperson I've ever seen. You go to club. I mean, they built clubs for you at this. At Pitney Bows, you know, and, um, and he learned, like, that's. That was his biggest weakness, but he learned how to overcome that and. And different tips and tactics to, uh. Um. And I'm kind of that same way. I tell people this. That's. That's my biggest opportunity. They're like, no way. Like, yeah, you got to be willing to, like, look at the.

Speaker B: At.

Speaker C: At different things and the processes and be real with yourself and. And be coachable and understand that. And find ways to overcome that.

Speaker B: Yeah. And when you're. What or what do you see as the. The key difference between, like, the B players and the A players in your. Not. Not necessarily your current company, but either in a past company or just in general?

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, I would say, uh. Um. Well, so I have a saying. Uh, I don't know, I probably stole it from somebody. Brian. So I say that 50. To be successful in anything you do. And we're talking sales now. So, um, to be successful in anything you do. 50% is hard work, 40% is being a person of integrity and standing for something. And the last 10% is a dog fight. And I think that's what we're talking about is the dog fight here. What separates, you know, the top 10 percenters. And, and, uh, I would say, like, time and territory management. Especially now with all the moving parts and the. The opportunity for distractions. Um, people that embrace coaching and feedback and uh, they don't necessarily take it in always, but you can see that they've embraced it. You know, they may go, uh, I don't know. But then they, they make that change. And then. And then the last one, I've always said this is, uh, um, people with uncommon curiosity. Like, they're the people, like after the meeting, they're like, hey, can I schedule some time with you to talk more about that? Because I feel like I was bogging everybody down. But I really want to know because that in this world of, of moving so quickly, the best salespeople know more about their product than the people demonstrating it. And, um, that helps you in those situations where Brian's asked me questions and somebody who doesn't know their product or, or their competition. That's a good question. Let me get back to you as soon as, like, they say that six or seven times. That's a good question. I'll get back to you. And then they have to run to their solution consultant or something like that. And, uh, at the velocity of way things move nowadays, people are like, they want to move on, not necessarily buy, but move on to the next decision point or vendor or what have you. Um, so I would say those are, those are the areas that, uh, make put you in that 10%.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, because curiosity keeps coming up and I think it's. It's not an autonomous or independent skill. I think you have to have confidence before curiosity. Then you have to have empathy before curiosity.

Speaker C: Um, yeah.

Speaker B: And that's all. Now you got three advanced skills that you need kind of in sequence almost that you typically don't find in young sellers because they're new. There goes the confidence. They're like imposter syndrome.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, playing a, uh, character instead of being authentic.

Speaker C: Right, right, right, right. That's so true. That's so true.

Speaker B: And, you know, then you have to be empathetic, which is thinking like a, uh, someone else when they're still worrying about thinking like the salesperson.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You can't just blow right past some things. You know, you have.

Speaker B: Curiosity comes from empathy. What's it like to be on their side? I'm curious about why is that important? As opposed to. I'll go figure this out. Uh, I'll go get you the answer. You don't want the answer. What's. What you really want is why do you care?

Speaker C: Right, Right. It's interesting. It's like, I'm a big quote person, and you made me think of another one. People. How's this go? You might have to help me about. People don't know how much you don't care about how much you know until. How much until they know how much you care. Right. And that's. That's probably what you just said. Like, if you could. Had to grab a quote and sum it up, maybe that's it.

Speaker B: And I had a manager who said his success was faking sincerity. And I said, you know, how much better you do if you didn't fake it, if you really cared about.

Speaker C: And that's gonna probably caught up with them at one point.

Speaker B: Right. Well, people see through it after a while.

Speaker C: Like, uh, yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, because he wasn't being malicious. He was just being expeditious. He's trying to get something done faster. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And. But, yeah, but then when you get that part done, then all of a sudden the client wants to know that you really care and you're not around. You got what you wanted. Now, uh, they're on their own.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And that will come back to bite you real quick. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: Cool. Hey, this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Speaker C: Yeah. Find me on LinkedIn. Um.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker C: Um, I'm not much of a Twitter guy or anything like that, but definitely find me on LinkedIn. I love helping people out. Um, I actually just met a person the other day, just sent me a text. I got her connected, got her an interview. Um, this. The enterprise software world is like San Diego. It's like the. What do they say? The. The biggest small city in the world. It's. It's a big world, but a lot of connections. I love getting people connected. And I got her connected. She just got a job. So, Hannah, if you're listening, congrats. And, uh, yeah, find me on LinkedIn. Hit me up. And, uh, love to connect and have conversations. And Brian, thanks for what you do. I love it.

Speaker A: And to become great at sales, the best way is to model somebody who already has become good at sales and to hear other people who have become great at sales and the journey that they're going through, the false beliefs, uh, the misnomers, the mindset issues, all of the stuff that gets into, in our way between where we are and the income that we want. Let's face it, we're in sales because we're money motivated, we're competitive. We want to be better every day than we were yesterday. And how do we do that? Just really, you know, read a book, listen, uh, to a podcast. That's good, good start. I like it. But then you have to take action. And then you want both tactical and strategic ideas. You want mindset, you want strategy. You want to understand how companies buy. You want really deep content and examples, case studies so that you can learn from other people's mistakes.

Speaker B: That's what I'm here for.

Speaker A: I'm, um, here for you to learn from my mistakes. And boy, do I got a lot of them. So go to b2b revenue.com, sign up for the courses. There's two major ones. Start the conversation, get the meeting, fills up your pipeline, gets rid of that problem of, oh, I don't have enough leads, I don't have enough meetings. It gets those conversations started with the people you want to talk to. Now, it's not about a pitch, it's about a conversation. Now, everybody thinks of conversations when you're talking or you're online at the same time, or you're on the phone, or zoom at time the same. The same time. That's not a conversation. A conversation is when the client is talking about what they care about, what they're interested in. And that is what we call qualification, where we can sense where are they and how do we build up that curiosity into interest, into urgency to get a deal. And these are skills that we need. They're lifelong skills that we need in sales. And then how do we get a, uh, deal close? Yes, anyone can take an order, but what if they don't know how to get it done? You get a new account where you're trying to get a big change done internally. What are the issues? If you're not planning that through. Odds are it's not going to get done no matter how much your champion wants it. So winning the complex sales solves that problem for you. Why waste all your time on these false positives or these no decisions? Because they don't pay very well. They pay 0.0. What you want to do is pay a lot. So sign up today. Invest in yourself. You're the asset in sales. Quit waiting for somebody else to approve it or train you. See if you can get it expensed. That should be your first sales obstacle. Your first sales challenge is how do you get your company to pay for it? Just go down, tell your manager you want to do this. I put a little, um, example email in the show notes right below here. Just swipe up and take a look at that. And if they won't, you got to ask yourself, why won't you? Why won't you? Oh, it takes time. Well, you work all day, you're working wrong all day. Why not improve that? There's the time right there. Oh, the money, Brian. It's money. Well, you make more money if you become better in sales. And start the conversation. Pays for itself the first week because you're going to get at least two meetings just learning from the very basics of it. Closing the complex sale will pay for itself a hundred times over. Students in it tell me it's the best money they ever spent because they now have control over their deals. And it doesn't end. Some give up. Some give up after they win their first deal and they think they've got enough. No, come back, come back. Keep going. You can get even bigger deals, more deals, faster deals. That's what it's all about. Sign up today. Put the excuses away. Uh uh, excuses feel good, but they're expensive. Excuse. You know what the excuses are costing you? Tens, 50, maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. And lost income. Really?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: The difference between where you are today, let's say you're making 150. Decent, decent income. But you know there's other people in your industry making 3, 4, 500K. Well, how are you going to do that? You all think it's just about getting a better job, a better territory, a better manager. They can help. Go do that. Then what happens? It's still you there with those leads, trying to close those deals. And do you have the game? Few people do. Everyone thinks they do. Why not prove it? The market tells you what you're worth. Accept it now. Become better. And the way to become better is to improve every day, really make a daily routine of learning and developing. Because it's not at the knowledge level. You have to become unconsciously competent at these skills, which takes time, repetition and emotion. And I show you how to do it, how I did it, how I've taught hundreds of people to do it. But you have to want to, because I can't force you. A lot of people wish I could. So do I. But I can't. So sign up today.

Speaker B: We'll see you next time.