SaaSy Talk S02.16: The Birth and Growth of Sharesies: A Journey with Brooke Roberts

Speaker A: We didn't go, oh, that's a great idea. Let's just get prototyping and build it. You know, we spent six months doing pure research. So do people even want to be an investor? Uh, what do they think about money? How do they feel about it? How does it show up in their lives? And so we did these really lovely ethnographic, so deep interviews with people where they're really vulnerable and open to us about their experience and beliefs around money. And from that it kind of gave us this impetus of like, well, the risk of not doing this is greater than doing it. So, you know, we quit our jobs and went all in. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Awesome. Hey, like every guest that pops on the show would love to kind of hear their story for you. What was the co founding moment of Cheesy? How did it lead up to that?

Speaker A: Oh, cool. Well, I would always tutu with business ideas ever since school really, and, and had a few businesses at school and that was really fun. But the lead up to shares easies was there was four of us that were looking at starting a business together and then we heard of Sonia also wanting to start one with her partner Ben and we were like, well let's. And we all got together and we're like, hey, that idea is actually really good. We should go in on that. So Sonia had the initial idea behind sharesies around, you know, what if you could invest with $50? What if you could grow it over time? What if you could make that accessible? And you know, with the media at that time, nearly eight years ago, it was all about people can't get into home ownership because they're spending their money on smash avocado, you know, And I was like, well actually with the technology available today, there's no reason that people can't have access to the same money opportunities. And bada bing, bada boom. Shees was born nice.

Speaker C: And what, get smashed? Everything. No, never made sense. It never made sense to me. There's better things to spend your money on.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Like a nice T bone steak if you're really going to go all out

Speaker A: like you're at dinner. Not a brunch Thursday.

Speaker C: Definitely not.

Speaker B: Hey, so what I find fascinating about Shiz is that you've got six co founders, is that correct? Like normally see two or three. How did it come to about six? And what was the, I guess what was the thought pattern? You know, looking back then? Why did you all jump into like co founders? See, how did you distinguish who's going to do what? Like who's going to be the CEO. What was the thought pattern amongst all of that?

Speaker A: Yeah, especially at Saturday, like we would get heaps of crap about being more than two founders. Like is isn't a, isn't a company founded by two people in a garage, you know.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Not six people. But honestly, we, we, we operate in a highly regulated industry. We're trying to create systemic and generational change in the finance, you know, and how people develop wealth and manage it. Like it's, it's big work, it's big money and you need a lot of skills around the table. We needed design developers, customer research, business modeling, finance. You know, you need all of that to be able to, to make this tick. And so we just couldn't understand how people do it with the less, you know, or, or not have, you know, that shed purpose around us initially, you know, is info, you know, peripheral throughout shares now. And like, we really are, uh, all driven about creating financial empowerment for everyone. And that's what brings us in every day. And as you know, nearly eight years on, it still feels like day one. But honestly, I don't know how it would have worked without that. So in terms of like determining what roles each of us took, some of it was based on our skills. Obviously the designer, you can take on the chief design role. You know, the two developers get off the coding and then Layden, Sonia and I would often, you know, dive into all the other areas like customer product marketing, strategy, capital raising. We initially did divvy it a bit and then over time it's kind of all, uh, you know, we all kind of duck and dive and we have this 3o model. So there's three CEOs at shares easily. Sonia and I, we've been doing that for the last, oh, probably nearly four years now. And honestly couldn't imagine it another way. Like having a founding team. We get to have, uh, lighter shoulders because you got that shared consciousness. We make better decisions, I think. And yeah, we just having a blast.

Speaker C: I'd love to deep dive that decision making, you know, being that I was a CEO once, a very, very long time ago now. How do you, how do you guys work decision making together? Like, do you have like a framework if something comes up that you need to make a decision on as a CEO, uh, do you guys have like a meeting that you get together that you knock it out? If only two of you agree, how do you deal with the one that's dissenting? You know, has it just never come up? And you generally find a consensus between all of you or there been circumstances where you're like, no, I really want to do this and you really want to do this and I know you don't like it, but we're going to do it anyway.

Speaker A: It's, you know, now that we've been working together quite closely, like I said, nearly eight years, we, we know each other quite well. So that's really helpful. You know, I will know instinctively. I think Sonia might think this or Leighton is really going to care about this, so I'll keep them informed or go. Actually, sometimes the who cares the most rule wins. It's like m the most. You take it then, you know, like you care so much, you're going to have way more context and way more, you know, like, way more passionate about the decision made. So sometimes that's a rule. I do like that. Hats, haircuts, tattoo, type of decision making too. Like, is this a hat, you know? Yep. Put it on now it doesn't look right. Can change it easily. Is it a haircut where, you know, Shazis will wear it for a while but it'll grow out, or is this like a tattoo on Shazies? You know, like, this is a, you know, a mark. That decision is going to leave a mark for life and therefore that should probably at least include the three of us, if not the board. So. So yeah, it's really fluid, I'd say, but I ultimately think that we're able to make decisions faster because there's three of us making decisions, you know, and we're up to us to keep each other in the loop and up to date with what's going on and what we're deciding. But yeah, I think now we've got this instinct to know, oh, yep, let's loop them in. This is they're going to care or they've got really good perspectives to add or go, actually, I'll just make this and if it doesn't work, I really

Speaker C: feel like we should have got all three of you on and we could have stirred so much trouble

Speaker B: with a follow up. Do you think you're always going to run it that way? Brooke, Are you pretty decisive on the fact that this is always going to be a co CEO model or do you see in the future when the business gets to a certain stage that will require someone to kind of just take the reins and just be a single CEO perhaps at that point in time?

Speaker A: I think, you know, right now with, you know, Leighton, Sonia and I in the business, I can't, I can't see that Happening. I think there will be this three model for. Yeah, I just see that we work really well that way and that's probably where she gets the best out of us and, and we get the best decisions made together. But say if we weren't here, hypothetically. I'm not. I don't know if that 3eo model would work. It. You know, you really, we do really need to know each other well. And yeah, it is a little bit, I'd say, unique to our founding story in a lot of ways.

Speaker C: Do you have three, uh, T shirts that you wear when you get on stage to talk about stuff?

Speaker A: That is what we need to do. We're wearing a three year, uh, old

Speaker C: T shirt right now, like 100%. That is a missed opportunity because I think, like, I could see the three of you getting on stage to present it at like a Saster or something major.

Speaker A: Uh, one's got ho.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And just be like, yeah, branded. Run a business model. You can do that too. But I can see your shirt here. I think it's definitely something that you should look into.

Speaker A: All, uh, right. That'll be my weekend bump.

Speaker B: Brooke, just go back in time. So eight years ago, you find this concept. It makes a ton of sense. You build up a product and then at that point in time, how do you define your go to market strategy? What was the again, going back to the thinking pattern. How did you think? Who's going to be your target audience? How are you going to distribute your idea or this, the solution out to the market? You know, what did you. What did you have to do? How did you stand up the first team? We get a lot of questions around that, so we'd love to kind of dig through the details.

Speaker A: Yes. Sweet. So when we started, we didn't go, oh, that's a great idea. Let's just get prototyping and build it. You know, we spent six months doing pure research. So do people even want to be an investor? What do they think about money? How do they feel about it? How does it show up in their lives? And so we did these really lovely ethnographic, so deep interviews with people where they're really vulnerable and open to us about their experience and beliefs around money. And from that, it kind of gave us this impetus of like, whoa. The risk of not doing this is greater than doing it. So, you know, we quit our jobs and went all in. And because we had done that and we didn't have, like, big financial, you know, pockets to dive into ourselves, we gave ourselves like three months to be able to, uh, launch shares, ease and, and raise enough capital to continue. Uh, and in order to do that, we also wanted to make sure we weren't inflating. The success or growth of shares is purely through marketing. So when we first started, we, we'd had all that research, we had all that insights, the language people used. We created a website which was, you know, uh, where people could sign up for, you know, on the wait list. And on that website we'd test different messaging and different things to resonate and, and really learn from the data that we got from that and the way that people were interacting with the conversions, I guess to that wait list to help us go, you know, get the. And then from that we had about 6,000 people signed up and were okay. So when we launched, you know, we could roll out to them. And, and then we. Again we. When we first started, we also like, wanted to make sure that there was a value exchange here. So when people first sign up to sharesies, it cost them 30 bucks to sign up. And, and people were paying it so they could see, you know, that this was something that would add value into their lives. Now I've got very different pricing model now it's, you know, free to sign up. But that was quite. That was really important to us. Like, are we creating something of value that's worth people, you know, that is worth of value to people. And is. Is there. Are we getting product market fit? So then once we had our product would see if people were actually investing, you know, or topping up their wallet and investing. And then once we saw that actually that, that all was humming. Well, we're like, okay, we're in actually a spot now where uh, it is worth putting some marketing money behind our growth. So that's time. And we really, we didn't want to, yeah. Create a facade of, yeah. Heaps of signups. But they actually weren't even investing or developing.

Speaker C: Well, they haven't paid us. They're all free. But we have 50 million users. Yeah, I really like that.

Speaker A: But it was, I think it's quite testing that business model early. As early as you can. Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, I think that's super smart. Like the fact that you wanted to know someone would pay. There's actual value in what you've created. And like now your model is completely different and there's hundreds of reasons why you've gone to the model you've gone. But you always knew before you moved to a free, you know, it's free to sign up that people would pay You've tested it, you knew it, you've proved it. I think that's really, really good advice for people starting out.

Speaker B: Rick, you also mentioned something about fundraising. So you raised quite early on in the cycle. Is it, uh, just because you were taking on such a big market and the uh, push you needed to get your solution out in that wider space, why did you have to raise capital so early? Any advice for the startups in that sense?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, there's a myriad of reasons why we need to raise capital, but you know, a really big one was we are in a really regulated environment and that takes quite a lot of time and capital to be able to, you know, know, comply in some ways. So, you know, legal advice, lawyers, lawyers need money. Adds up, right? And, and, and that's all worth it because it's really important that there are uh, regulations around, you know, where people's wealth and money.

Speaker C: So lawyers are good people. They, they, they need money.

Speaker B: This is not a self promotional pon.

Speaker A: We like it was really important and they even gave us a friend, Robono help to start which was really great. Um, and then we needed to scale. There's, you know, we need to make our first tires and you know, all of that stuff. So all the reasons, I guess companies need some capital to be able to, and uh, and advice in terms of startups, I think, you know, one really important part of when you're raising company, you are raising uh, capital, you are sharing your company, you know, like you are, they're uh, joining you as shareholders and other owners in your company. So being really making sure that when you're bringing a shareholder in that they really, really deeply care about the purpose of your company and want it to exist. And like our first, our first capital raise and the kickoff of our first capital raise came from Sonia and I doing a podcast actually really early on. And this person emails us out of the blue and said, hey, I love what you're doing. This needs to exist. Can I, how can I help? And we caught up and he's like, cool, I'll um, invest a hundred thousand dollars. We were like, let's go. And you know, they kicked off the whole, yeah, yeah, you know, they want somebody in and then, you know, everyone wants to kind of invest. But that was, that was so powerful because they really care about what we're doing and why we're doing it. And, and that's uh, been an ethos we've had with any shareholder. We've bought onto shares. These is like, and also the ethos we Share when people are investing in shares is like do you really care about the companies and funds you're investing in and do you see a future with them? And if you do, you know that's great and I think that's a really important part for, for founders uh, to know. Another key part of raising capital I really want founders to know is you've really got to be thinking about if you're raising money you will likely potentially need to raise more. You're just starting out so thinking about whatever you do in this round, is it making you more attractive in the next rounds? So quite often I see that there is a little bit of extra, you know, there's some bad terms out there when people are raising money. You know, it might be for, for instance on shares. Every shareholder has ordinary shares and we really stick true to that and there's, you know, you got to watch out for those preferences and stuff and how they start to lock your ability to, to rate the valuation. You should be able to in the future and be able to attract more capital. So I think really holding firm and, and knowing you are so much of the value of the company, um, and when you're starting to like this, you are pretty much the value of it as a founding group. So making sure you don't you know that, that ah, the uh, trade off is that the value exchange is right.

Speaker C: I mean everyone knows I'm a big proponent of raising money as late as humanly possible which you know, which is always my, my goal. But your advice is really important like if you're going to raise early, get people who care about what you build. Not just professional investors I guess like us now that, that are looking around. Look for people who care like what you guys have done because it does give you that really good start off and you can build that out more understanding or willing to give you help. Right. Cause they actually care about what you've built and what you're doing and that's

Speaker A: amazing roller coaster, you know, you'll, you'll have a trajectory and then you'll hit some stumbling blocks and you want shareholders there that are there for the good times and the bad are really because they really care and they know that you're the person that can make this come to life and you're, you're onto something. Uh yeah, there are sometimes the people that can help you have lighter shoulders and pick you up when. Yeah feels like a bit like whack a mole sometimes in the startup world. You know, once you're down.

Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely did you always think Shazi was going to be global solution, Brooke, or did you think you're going to capture New Zealand market and then obviously then go to different markets? Like what was the uh, what was the thinking there?

Speaker A: Yeah, we definitely saw a global opportunity and also in retrospect some of the startup fear to make sure that you have to include that, you know. But I also think we do really see that and we did really believe that early on too. The thing with financial, ah, and Fintech or financial services is as it is heavily regulated, you need to be able to comply in each jurisdiction or each country. So that takes time and there's different rules and so it isn't like uh, that well, the type of business we've got at the moment, the majority of the business anyway can't kind of be global from day one in that regard. So yeah, we operate across Australia and Aotearoa and we see parts of our business that can be global but really that strong retail side, the wealth app side is predominantly across.

Speaker B: Yeah, nice.

Speaker C: Uh, when you, when you guys decided to expand into, you know, Australia and do that, like what were some of the key things that you had to get right before, apart from legal and compliance, what was I guess the first things you did to get yourself ready to land on the ground?

Speaker A: So to launch in Australia? Yeah, aside from that side was really a bunch again of research like we did here, you know, getting to know what is the difference in the Australian market, what is the gap that we see there, uh, what parts of our current product in Aotearoa work for that and what parts need to change. So we did quite a bit of change in our, in our product. They've also got a little bit of a different regulatory, regulatory regime in some ways, which means that we can also innovate uh, faster in other areas like open banking and stuff there than what we have here. So we were able to also innovate faster which is, was which quite cool and test things there before we get to a point where we can roll it out here. So and then the other that really is understanding those crucial differences in terms of yes, it's a massive market and you think, oh, what you can do here, you replicated it, but it's also massively fragmented. To build a, to build a consumer brand is incredibly expensive and, and takes a lot of time if you're, you know, and expensive if you're, I guess not doing it in. Yeah, yeah, there's, there's other ways to do it essentially. So we, we learned that actually the way that we'll grow in Australia is a bit different to how we were able to do it here in Aotearoa. And we learned some of the nuances, but at a high level. You know, people want to be an investor, they do feel left out, they do feel jargon, doubt. And those that are investors can have a way better experience. And yeah, we, we're, we've got, you know, quite a few customers over in Australia now and it's growing really well. And yeah, it's just really exciting. Part of our future too.

Speaker B: That's awesome.

Speaker C: When did you decide to hire someone to run the Australian arm? Um, like have a head of a country manager style person. Was that an early decision? Something that came out of research?

Speaker A: Well, this was Covid. Forgot about COVID Yeah, great old time. And so Leighton and I actually moved to Australia to sort three things. Find a country manager. We were doing zoom interviews with people. We're like, oh, we've got to be on the ground to meet this person. It's such a crucial role. We needed to find an office, we thought at that time, so we could get the vibe together and then, and build our relationships and partnerships there. We've got such strong relationships now across Aotearoa over the last eight years, but now, you know, in some ways it's starting our relationships there. So we're still a lot more to do in that space. But we found our country manager, which was awesome. We found a place to work from within the first few weeks and then we were locked out over there. So we, that, that part of relationships was quite tricky. Uh, but now we're doing that quite a bit. Like I was in Sydney last week and yeah, we're doing that a lot more. But yeah, that being on the ground is quite important, I think.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot of people are listening to this broke. They're probably wondering, I want to get into tech scene. There's so much happening in New Zealand. I suppose, uh, coming back to your experience, why is New Zealand such a good place to start? If you're starting, as you know, in tech as a, as a startup founder or whatever, it may be related to startup. And I guess on the flip side, I'm going to ask you the same, um, question both at once. What are some of the challenges as you've gone to experience?

Speaker A: First challenges, um, and the challenges of being a founder is that you think

Speaker C: so New Zealand, New Zealand in particular.

Speaker A: Okay, so benefits of founding a company in Aotearoa is that we, we are highly relational. So there's so many people are willing to open doors and share advice and, and support. Support you I think. And that's something I didn't realize was that unique to us until you kind of go overseas and you're like there's this beautiful kind of, you know, we're maximum 3 degrees separated but I feel a lot less. And, and so that's been. Yeah, like if you ask a lot of people will say yes. Like it's kind of like a bit of our culture which is quite nice. I think that's been really helpful. Another helpful part about starting a company in Pornicki Wellington in particular is that Zero is headquartered here, Trade Me Kiwi bank. And they have all, you know, they're all companies that have grown a really strong brand or they've also you know, got really strong technology and being able to scale, scale that globally in particular with Xero. And you know I worked at Both QBank and zero too. So the, the ripple effects of the success of those companies uh, have been massive either in terms of access to shareholders and capital because they were able to get exits out of Zero on Trade Me or with Kiwi bank in particular. That's probably the last kind of financial services company that kind of started and got that scale and, and created products relatively recently in a way that we were able to like attract talent from too. So um, or you know from working there, building those relationships and understand how the, the regulatory landscape works and, and they're being close to, to regulators and the NZX and stuff here too. So I think that that's been really helpful. The challenges is you know, the chasm of Pacific Ocean I guess in some ways. But like the distance we uh, are which is a benefit and a challenge I think in terms of the energy uh, it takes to, to build relationships Trans Kasman, the, the, the isolation we have in terms of what we think about compared to say what Australians think about or other people around the world. So it's just being you having to really shape your world view in a lot of ways or make sure that you're getting access to people and information that help build a more global business.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So powerful. So then the follow up question to that. If you were to do it all over again, Brooke, and you could change one thing about your journey, what would that one thing be?

Speaker A: The funny thing is it's nothing to do with jerseys. It's that uh, I recently got into surfing and my biggest regret is I did get into it earlier actually. But I wonder if that would be interesting too. It's like, you know, if I. Yeah, like I. I'm really frothing for it and. Yeah. But I don't know, am I allowed to answer that or do you want more?

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker C: No, that's a good answer. And just, just FYI, there's a lot of good surf beaches in Australia.

Speaker A: I know, I know.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think that's what I thought that's what she was trying to make connection is that if she had moved over to Australia for a bit of surf beaches perhaps then, you know, that would have been at least I've learned. But it's a perfectly well answered.

Speaker C: I'm still trying to get over the fact that she kind of slided Australia before when she said, you know, everyone is helpful in New Zealand and no one's helpful in Australia. I'm pretty confident that's what I got

Speaker B: out of what you said.

Speaker C: I distilled it. I distilled it down a little bit, but I'm pretty sure that's sort of where it was.

Speaker A: I was saying it's a lot easier. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. I'm teasing you. I'm, um, teasing you.

Speaker B: It is true.

Speaker C: That's the best part about like when you eventually listen back, you'd be like, I never said any of these things. The way we cut it is amazing.

Speaker B: M. The final edit is going to be so much different than what you realized. Much like most of the ones we've done. So I guess, you know, eight years in. Brooke, what is the new vision now and how you're tracking against that? She is easy. Is there a new vision? Sandra? Sorry, there's a. Yeah.

Speaker A: So our uh, our purpose is the same. We want to create financial empowerment for everyone. Our vision, you know, is still to create, to give someone with $5 and 5 million the same money opportunities. But as we've grown, we've realized actually we're starting to become. Or we. We can see that we could become the heart of wealth and really like the. A big part of the change in the system essentially. So what shares does now is, you know, we started as an investment platform providing access to investing. Now we're a wealth app. Provide access to kiwisaver, save insurance and. And really building out the whole wealth app. So we, we're really a place where people can grow their wealth and really focus on that. And we're also open for business. So we partner with, I'd say around, yeah, 6, 700 companies to support them, providing their staff with staff shares so that they can be Owners in the companies that they work in. And, you know, that Value Exchange works well too, that they can communicate well to their shareholders and keep, you know, and also shareholders can communicate well with companies. We see a massive opportunity in that space. So, uh, that's another part of our business that we're growing. We're growing quite strongly in. So, yeah, we really have a sharesies business arm and a wealth app arm. Hello.

Speaker B: Awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Hey, after you, Dominate Australia, where to next?

Speaker A: Well, there's. We've built all of our technology ourselves. It's all proprietary. And we did that because in order to make the unit economics work, when we first started, we essentially had to. It was like, well, you partner with people and you take, you know, oh, it costs a dollar for this and a dollar for that. And it's like all of a sudden it's just not going to be economical to be a real mass market kind of, you know, player. So we built it ourselves. And because of that and we've built this beautiful technology, there's a lot of opportunity for people to leverage that too. So we see quite a global opportunity in providing access to some of the technology that we've already created. And we've had some people keen on that, which is cool.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, I think that's all the hard stuff done, all the easy stuff, but enough to take you through.

Speaker C: There's still one question. Yeah, Yeah, I love that question. You got to ask.

Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, it could be, but I've got to now dive into my memory back. Brooke, when you do decide to hang up your boots, what do you want to be known for?

Speaker A: Known for? I mean, I think there's such a good question, you know, and I never really think of that. I'm not think of like the. I. I think, you know, people say, like, the legacy you leave is more how you make people feel than anything else, you know, and so I hope that I, you know, like, that I'll be known for. I mean, I've got a lot of energy, but that like, that people felt more of a sense of possibilities around me or something. I think that would be cool, like. Or they could be able to create it like it happened. I feel like that would be right.

Speaker C: I'll give you. I'll give you a little bit of addition. I think you're going to be remembered as someone who provided a lot of financial freedom to a lot of people who could not otherwise never have got there or got it. And I think that's a pretty awesome legacy to leave behind.

Speaker A: It totally is. And that's definitely like, shares is legacy. And I also, you know, I hope that goes off for generations to come.

Speaker C: Yeah. What are you going to say now? You can go to the other questions.

Speaker A: I was saying, look, history.

Speaker C: Being a CEO for a long time, like, you don't stop and think about a lot of things because you don't get to stop and think about it. So that's why I love that question, because it makes you stop and think for a bit.

Speaker A: It does, yeah.

Speaker C: Hit a hit of hard stuff. Now the hard stuff.

Speaker B: Brooke, what's your favorite sports team?

Speaker A: Can I say, my son's ripper rugby team.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker C: As long as you only pick. As long as you pick one thing, uh, it doesn't matter what it is. You can only have one.

Speaker B: Just one.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, that's it.

Speaker B: Favorite music genre. What do you listen to when you're cruising?

Speaker A: I listen to a range of things, but I've got to probably say neo soul. So, like Erica Badu.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Ah, okay.

Speaker B: You're good at this compared to many of the others. They tend to give us like 5 answers and it's like, favorite just one thing. What about favorite movie of all time?

Speaker A: Look, I hate the favorite questions, to be honest. You don't pretty well things like that in my brain often. But I. I can't think of a movie, but I can think of a book right now. Because I'm reading it doesn't mean it's my favorite. But, uh, I'm reading educated and I'm really enjoying it. But about this woman, new life. And I'm, yeah, enjoying that.

Speaker C: This is my favorite questions are the best because everyone hates them because they're like, I don't have a favorite. I have like 15.

Speaker A: I love it. They just know all their favorite things and I'm like, oh, I.

Speaker B: It changes.

Speaker A: I like things.

Speaker B: Yes. Replace the visit. Just one.

Speaker A: Mount Manganui Maunga. Like, actually going up the top of Mount Maunganui.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Now this is. This is the outrage.

Speaker C: I know where that is.

Speaker B: Well, next time you come over, I would take you. It's like two and a half here as well. So you're up there. You get given two jars. You can only pick one. Left one says crunchy, the right one says smooth. Both are peanut butter. Which one are you picking? Which ones you got? Crunchy, crunchy all day long. She's on the right side.

Speaker C: I knew. I knew before you even said it. I'm like, she's definitely with pick. Crunchy. She's on the right side.

Speaker B: She's on the right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on. Thanks for sharing all your.

Speaker C: We're all crunchy. We get the odd crazy person who picks smooth m and then I'm like, well, do we even publish this? I don't even know if it's worthwhile anymore.

Speaker B: I think no one's going to trust anything.

Speaker C: That said, why publish it?

Speaker B: Didn't someone say, you can't trust me? Never had that job. Awesome. Yeah, it should be the first question. Yeah, we should actually do that. We should reverse it so we don't

Speaker C: spend 45 minutes talking to people. Look, we're having technical difficulties. We'll reschedule this. Don't worry about it.

Speaker B: Just awesome. Well, thanks for coming on, bro. Thanks for sharing all your insight. This has been awesome.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's been awesome.

Speaker A: Great to catch up, eh.