Prospering Through Change: Women Leaders in Federal Contracting with Shelly McGuire

Voice Over: Welcome to Room at the Table, an opportunity for you to join me, Betsy Ullo and my guests for conversations about creating equitable and inclusive workplaces where leaders rise above mediocrity and our teams thrive. Pull up a chair. There's always room at the table. Betsy Cerulo: Welcome to another Meaningful Conversation on Room at the table.

Betsy Cerulo: I am Betsy Sarillo, your host, and welcome to my guest today, Shelly McGuire, owner of Shelly's Events and Chief Strategy Office officer of Orange Slices. Today we're talking about how to prosper through change and what that means. So pull up a chair, enjoy your favorite beverage, and let's get started. Betsy Cerulo: Welcome my friend.

Thanks Betsy for having me. I'm excited. Me too. And you know what, given how crazy times are I, my beverage should really be filled with vodka, Shelley McGuire (2): but we'll go with water.

I know we won't reveal what's really in here, Betsy Cerulo: so I know we are gonna have a fun conversation. We, uh, we both travel in the world of government contracting and, um. Betsy Cerulo: You have been so instrumental to bring people together. So, you know, real quick, let's tell the audience what you do in your company for, for the government contracting industry.

Shelley McGuire (2): So, yeah, so it's been a journey, you know, um, I started sort of doing this whole gathering and connecting the dots with people. Shelley McGuire (2): Back in 2016, um, you know, just really putting on events for people to get together to learn about each other. Kind of learn about who your frenemies are, uh, in a certain particular space. Our favorite space, good word.

What's that? Good word. Frenemies. Frenemies, right?

They're friends, sometimes they're enemies. Shelley McGuire (2): You know, it all depends on the day. Um, and the contract. Um, so that started back in 2016 and, um, from there it just kind of morphed into this bigger and better and more curated type of, um.

Business per se, because I was just doing it for fun, uh, when I worked along with a small contractor. And now, um, more than ever, it seems like people are still very interested, um, in getting together. Shelley McGuire (2): So four years ago, uh, I, well, four and a half years ago now, I started my own company called Shelly's Events, and it was, um. Birthed out of, you know, kind of like what was happening in the world, you know, back in the covid days, 20 20, 20 21, where really government wasn't able to come out and speak.

And then, you know, my former, who I was consulting with to do events, um, was sold so. Shelley McGuire (2): You look at yourself, you're like, all right, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna go with the sale or am I gonna start something new? So I just started my own company, and it's been going since, uh, January of 2021.

Um, we focus on bringing people together, whether they are government. Former government or contractors in particular spaces. Shelley McGuire (2): My favorite space, of course, how we know each other is CMS. Yes.

But of course we're branching out into, you know, the VA and especially DHS and, you know, in fed civ areas. 'cause you know, it's not all about CMS even though they have a big budget. But, um. We're doing, we're doing some good stuff here.

Betsy Cerulo: Yeah. And I can tell you, you know, you were so giving and kind to let me speak on, uh, one of the panels last year and actually that event that you had last year that was focused on CMSI was able to connect with a, uh, a large prime that I did business with probably 10 years ago. Betsy Cerulo: And I hadn't seen them in a really long time, so we were able to reconnect. And also by being on the panel, I connected with a couple of folks because some of the things that I said, there were people in the audience that wanted to continue conversation.

So your work really supports us, and I am really happy to see that you're moving into other agencies because. Betsy Cerulo: When you go over to the Department of Defense or Homeland Security, it's different than CMS. And also the requirements for those of us that are government contractors is a little bit different. And I feel that when you, when you bring everybody together in an environment where, you know how some of the stuff that we go to, it can, it can be a bit of a snore at times.

Betsy Cerulo: Yours are not. Yours are. Vibrant and fun. And then you donate money to organizations in need and we need to see that.

Shelley McGuire: Yeah. Betsy Cerulo: You know, so. Let me go over to, part of the reason why I wanted for us to talk today is the government contracting industry has gone through some changes. So from your perspective, what are you seeing with the different executive orders that came out in January, 2025 and are continuing?

Shelley McGuire (2): So I think the first biggest thing I'm seeing is a, a lot of contractors, people are kind of like in this freak out mode. Betsy Cerulo: Mm-hmm. Shelley McGuire (2): And don't get me wrong, like it's, it, it trickles down, right? Yes.

Even though I do events, it still trickles down to even myself, even to orange slices. Like, you know, you have to start kind of looking at your budget and figuring out, okay, I. Shelley McGuire (2): You know, related to, do I really need this subscription or do I really need to go to this event? Or, you know, it's like all these things and do I really need these people who are helping me build this business?

You know what I'm, it's just a lot to consider. Um, but I think all in all. You know, it, it gives us a reason to kind of reset and kind of refocus and reimagine like what we're really doing in government contracting and makes us kind of dig deeper within ourselves to figure out like, why did we get into this particular subsection, right? Shelley McGuire (2): Yes.

Why did we come into government contracting? Why are we focused on particular agencies? Why are we just particular in, focused into, say, CMS, like how we know each other, right? It's, it's the mission, it's the goals.

It's what the outcomes are for. You know, who is serviced or who is being serviced by the government. Shelley McGuire (2): You know, my people who I live around, you know, I live in Florida. My, um, average age down here is 67, so everyone's on Medicare.

And so like, I think it's caused a lot of people anxiety, but I think also too, it's caused them to dig like within themselves the core to figure out okay. Let me regroup. Yes. Let me refocus and let me move ahead.

Shelley McGuire (2): Keep my head down and do what I'm supposed to do and keep it moving. Betsy Cerulo: Exactly. And you know, I can tell you there were some areas where my company was impacted and did I have those freak out moments? Heck yeah.

You know, I would, uh. I would come downstairs at the end of the evening and my wife would say, 'cause I would be like, ah, and I won't say those words here. Betsy Cerulo: She'd say, you have five minutes to complain. Voice Over: Uh, yeah.

Betsy Cerulo: And I'd let it out and then I would be fine. But what I noticed, we had a couple of contracts that were, I'll use the word paused, and also the reinstated. Thank God. But what that time, that period of time did for me is it gave me an opportunity.

To see, well, how would the business be impacted if those contracts were either not recompete again or if I lost them. Betsy Cerulo: So in that period of time, I was able to move our company towards some different initiatives or rethink some things, you know, look at some things. So on the other side of it, excuse me, when those, uh, when those contracts were reinstated. I really looked at it, that the universe just gave me an opportunity, you know, could I, could I be freak out?

Betsy Cerulo: Could I get angry? Sure. A lot of emotions occurred for me, but I, you know, I've been in business for 35 years. It takes a heck of a lot to paralyze me, you know?

Shelley McGuire (2): Yeah, no, and I agree with you because, um, you know, I haven't been in business that long, however. My background, you know, as you know, I was a teacher. Shelley McGuire (2): I taught business. I taught entrepreneurship on a college level.

I didn't know that. Betsy Cerulo: Huh? I didn't know that. Shelley McGuire (2): Yes, yes.

I have a lot of hats that I've worn, which is really nice. Yeah, absolutely. But it's like you have to weather the storm, right? Yes, yes.

It's just like relationships, you know? So I equate it to, I. Shelley McGuire (2): Is again, you have to look at from within and Totally. I had the same thing.

I mean, you know, flashing to events. I had a huge event planned for February, you know, 250 people paying people. And I had, I had to hit the refund button. I mean, like seriously.

Yeah. Right. So it causes you to kind of think, regroup. Shelley McGuire (2): Like I said, refocus and why you got into the business.

Why the why? So like you have to be able to get through it. And also too, it's a good lesson for people to make sure on an accounting side that you have money Yes. In reserves so that.

If some hits the fan. Right. And you can't pay your bills like you have reserves. Shelley McGuire (2): And I think this is something that, you know, we saw, I can remember a couple years ago when government decided to, um, what did they do?

They, they didn't pay people for like six weeks, remember? They couldn't Yes. Betsy Cerulo: Oh yeah, Shelley McGuire (2): yeah, yeah. And like.

People are freaking out. Yes, but I think that's the other piece of the puzzle is that. Shelley McGuire (2): You just can't be living paycheck to paycheck. Betsy Cerulo: No.

Shelley McGuire (2): And you can't run your business that way either. Betsy Cerulo: No. Shelley McGuire (2): And you have to have someone who is, and thankfully, like my husband is my, uh, CFO, he's an accountant, financial planner. So he is always like looking at, you know, what's happening and what's coming up, and.

Shelley McGuire (2): Telling me like shell, like this is what needs to kind of happen. Like dial it back here. Can you cut a little bit here? So like, these are times where you need to like reset, right?

And to look at your bottom line. What can you live with? What can you live without? And how can you sustain and maintain if some, like I said, it's the fan, right?

Shelley McGuire (2): And you, you need like a, some runway, right? Betsy Cerulo: Yes, I, I share that I was brought up to be frugal and save. And I found that over, over the years, I just would sock the money away. So when things would, there would be a shift.

I wasn't worried about money. Uh, and I always, I still follow that, you know. I need to make sure, I wanna make sure that we're always on solid ground. Betsy Cerulo: Yeah.

I know other business owners, the things they run through their companies. I would be like, are you kidding me? Really? Yeah.

Uh, there's other ways to do that. You know, boats, houses, I'll go down the list. Well, you know, I'm not a boater. But nonetheless, I was always really careful and mindful to keep the books crystal, crystal clear and clean, and I'm a finance person, so I.

Betsy Cerulo: You, you always have to say for a rainy day, and, and business in general is volatile, so I know we've, we either, it's been fast and furious this year in 2025 with the changes, but that's what business is all about. And if you can't handle change, then maybe this is not, entrepreneurship may not be your thing. Shelley McGuire (2): So I'll piggyback on that. So yes, I agree with you 1000% because, you know, teaching entrepreneurship.

Yes. You have to have that mindset, right? And you can't be like a micromanager, like you are the big thinker, right? Yes.

You surround yourself with people who are, I mean, 'cause I do, I can tell you that right now. Shelley McGuire (2): If you saw my SAT scores from back in high school, you'd be like, um, oh, me too. Betsy Cerulo: I, Shelley McGuire (2): and I took them more than Betsy Cerulo: once. Shelley McGuire: I took them twice.

My husband's like, Shelly. Did you even go to the test? I'm like, shut up. Yes, I did it.

Shelley McGuire (2): But, but, but like I say this because like, you know, when I taught, kids would come in and they thought it was ter, like, they're like, Ms. McGuire, we're not, I'm not gonna do anything with my life. I'm like, listen, girl or guy. Uh, if it was a determining factor of like, your success, like I'd be scrubbing toilets.

Shelley McGuire (2): That's, and just trust me, I scrub my own toilets every once in a while, but. With that being said, you have to kind of look at yourself. So for, to have that entrepreneurial spirit, I feel like yes, you can run a business. Two, um, you have other things you've done to get here.

You are not just a one man show or a girl show, right? Shelley McGuire (2): Correct. Like, you either have a partner that's kind of like helped you, you know, move to that particular entrepreneurial side of you, or you've done something where you worn multiple hats. So for me, you know, I have my own business.

My husband and I share a business together. Then I have a real estate business that I do on the side. Shelley McGuire (2): I have rental properties that I do on the side. Then I have, you know, like.

The orange slices piece of the puzzle, you know, to keep that moving. So it's like all these different things. I was doing a, um, car rental type of business. Oh yeah.

I could go on for days on the things that I've done on the side just to see if they, you're a serial Betsy Cerulo: entrepreneur, Shelley McGuire (2): right? Shelley McGuire (2): So it's like you have to have those multiple streams of income. So you know, people who are used to like a W2, that's that fine. That's good.

However. You being a business owner, you honestly have to kind of, sort of diversify your portfolio and, and, you know, you hit the nail in the head with having, you're saving that money. Shelley McGuire (2): Yes. Instead of like.

Right. Freaking doling it out everywhere and buying all these things and Correct. It's not, and buying a yacht. Betsy Cerulo: Oh, yeah.

Let me, my, my yacht will pull up and pick me up. I, I, and, and during these tough times, once in a while I still hear people brag about the stuff and, and I just think to myself, you really have to dial it back because people are hurting and you need to find. Betsy Cerulo: Gratitude. So if you're on solid ground, be grateful.

And I can tell you one of the beautiful things about my internal team is we do focus a lot on gratitude. Some people may think it's corny, but that's, that's the stuff that gets you through the hard times when you look at, okay, this might be exploding over here, but let's look at the good stuff. Betsy Cerulo: And that's where we focus, not, not discounting things that may have shifted unexpectedly, but you're, you have to then look at, okay, what's my strength? Where can I diversify?

And I, if anything, a lot of these changes now really tell us you have to diversify your business. And sometimes it takes a big clunk over the head, but. Betsy Cerulo: Diversifying is important. Like for instance, uh, we lived through the recession in oh eight and oh nine.

Mm-hmm. I was all commercial then. So what do you think dried up commercial hiring? 'cause we're in staffing.

I thought I was gonna lose the business. I was just watching everything just kind of, uh, to such a great, I moved us towards the federal government. Betsy Cerulo: Best thing I ever did. So when you're in the federal government as a government contract, you've gotta diversify.

Look at, okay, well what are the agencies? Who's got the money? Where are you a good fit? Ask questions, don't be a victim.

Nobody is a victim. No. No matter what happens, you're not a victim. You can, you can take diversity, or I'm sorry, adversity.

Betsy Cerulo: Mm-hmm. And you can expand upon it. Agree. Don't get, don't get, don't get paralyzed.

Don't go down the rabbit hole of sadness and misery. Shelley McGuire (2): Grow. And I think that's the other piece of the puzzle is that, you know, related to, you know, circling back to like events and getting people together, it's not going down that rabbit hole, number one. Shelley McGuire (2): And number two, surrounding yourself with people outside of who you really talked to.

So like, you know, when you came on back in October to speak, you know, at the CMS event that I put together every single year, um. You know, you pushed your limits, right? Mm-hmm. You were up on stage, like yes.

You don't usually do that. Shelley McGuire (2): You, you've been like, tucked, tucked away. Nobody's like you, you do your own thing. Yeah.

You know, you keep it moving and. You know, it, it forces you to do something that you probably wouldn't have done. But then it opens up this whole new world to you and connections to you and gives you like a voice. Shelley McGuire (2): Mm-hmm.

So, yes, that is what I love because, you know, I've had plenty of, especially women CEOs, like we're very good at keeping it together, keeping it moving. We don't really need our ego stroked. Usually, um, we, we usually, we do like a good pat on the back and a good, like high five from each other. Shelley McGuire (2): Absolutely.

Which women tend to either do or they don't. Not good at it. Most of 'em don't. So ladies out there, let's be better about this, right?

Thank you. Um. But like putting yourself out there as especially a woman and handling like your business and showing people like, this is what I've done, this is how I pivoted during tough times. Shelley McGuire (2): 'cause there's people now who are wanting to go the opposite way and wondering, so for instance, at my last event, you know, on April 1st, what was happening during then?

You know, was hitting the fan. Ooh boy, right? Bad day. It was hitting the fan there.

Little did I know that was gonna happen. Like could I have scheduled that any worse or better? Shelley McGuire (2): Not really sure. But these people were in the room together who care about CMS and who wanna learn from each other and you know, they were there to discuss what was happening.

I mean, in real time. But they were connecting and putting together the dots and you know, outside of their usual little silo that they stay in and who they talk to. Shelley McGuire (2): So it's nice when you get together with people who are not like you. So, yeah, Betsy Cerulo: absolutely.

And you know, sadly over the past couple months, some of the people we all know and care about who have supported us. Were released from their roles in the federal government. This is a time that you stay in close touch with people like that. Betsy Cerulo: I have, and you know, I'm in the business of putting people to work.

So we have, uh, been working with some of our contacts to make sure their resumes look good. You know, when they're making the, the transition out of the federal government, which has resumes that are bazillion pages long, that doesn't work in the, in. Betsy Cerulo: Non-government, so you have to shorten it. So I've advised a lot of my colleagues from the federal government on how to put your resume together because we can't, we can't keep.

Hanging out with them because we want something from them. So I look at it that some of these people who have lost their jobs have been so good to me. Betsy Cerulo: Not just gave me business, but gave me direction, gave me encouragement. Were, you know, patch on the back.

Come on girl. Keep going, keep going. So. When the times get tough, we need to also support those people and don't always look at it like, go around the room.

Well, who, who's got a dollar sign on their head that I can get something from? Betsy Cerulo: Because when you give, you get, the universe just brings it back to you. It does. Shelley McGuire (2): A thousand percent.

I, yeah, wholeheartedly agree with that because. You have made relationships with these people. Yes. Yes.

You know, so those relationships will carry and will circle back around to you. Yeah. Everything, it just keep, if you keep helping them, they'll help you and That's right. Shelley McGuire (2): And you'll come up in conversation.

I mean, it's totally happened to me since like, and, and I've had the same thing, like a lot of my speakers, a lot of the people who were my champions inside. Yeah, I have now left. So it's like, I kind of look at it as, okay, like we're still friends and I'm still gonna call upon you because I wanna help support you in what you are doing outside. Shelley McGuire (2): Yes.

Of the federal space. And how can I elevate you? Because I know it's gonna circle back around. 'cause you still have those contacts.

Betsy Cerulo: Right? And don't discount someone because they're not. Your contact anymore because now that they are outside of the federal government, it's easier for them to share information on some of the inner workings that may, they may not have been able to share. Betsy Cerulo: Now they're not.

They can tell you. You know, stay away from that person. Yep. Go work with that person.

And so don't cast people off to the side. And I, and I see that, you know, having been in business a long time like yourself, you see how people use each other? No. You have to collaborate, be with invite.

Yep. Betsy Cerulo: And that attracts prosperity. Shelley McGuire (2): It, it does wholeheartedly. I can't agree with you more.

You know, I tend to. You know, things have changed in the landscaping as far as bringing people together and who can speak, who can't speak. I mean, even they can speak Yeah. A lot of people don't wanna speak now.

Yes. So that's another piece of the puzzle, especially with government. Shelley McGuire (2): Yes. Um, so you have to be kind of sensitive to that and be able to kind of shift and maneuver.

So, you know, you, some people kind of tend to poo poo on formers. But, mm-hmm. Like I have someone who in the va, literally I reached out to him. I was like, Hey, you know, I know you love to speak at my events.

I know you know you have a travel restriction. Shelley McGuire (2): Long story short, he's like, Hey, just to let you know I'm going to be leaving government. I don't know if you still would look at me the same. And I'm just like, I wrote back.

Um, I like your look even more. Absolutely, absolutely. I have to fill out less Shelley McGuire: paperwork. Betsy Cerulo: Yeah.

Yeah. And you know what, and they are just, they are just such an incredible bucket of wisdom. Betsy Cerulo: You know, and I, I just think back over the years since I've been in the federal government, the people that I have worked with and have championed me, they have gone on to do some really cool stuff. And even the folks that completely retired, I can still reach out once in a while to some of them for advice or just tap, Hey, how you doing?

Betsy Cerulo: So, but you know what, shell, as we start to, to wind down the conversation, I just wanna ask you, in your opinion, tell me common sense. What's a good, what's an important do and what's a don't that you do in, in this space now in order to thrive? Give me a good, do. Shelley McGuire (2): So what you do.

To me is you, you gotta stay on top of what's kind of happening around you. Shelley McGuire (2): You know, you don't have to dig into the weeds to see or to read what is happening, but just making sure that you're, you're aware, number one, yes. Number two, you're checking your own self with people. Not just the people in your silo, but outside of your, you know, common network that you have.

Because I think that is really important at this particular, um, stage in the game. Shelley McGuire (2): Absolutely. And just maybe the last piece of the puzzle doing is really reflection on yourself. Why the why?

Like, do I stay in this particular agency or do I need to kind of start educating myself, which is always. Number one for me when I, you know, put on events and things like that. Is the education piece, like knowledge is everything. Shelley McGuire (2): Yes.

So like the more that you can learn about other agencies and what other people are doing to penetrate a new agency for potential opportunities, I think is really key because you know as well as I do these next four years. We can learn from history. So that is number four? Yes.

Is learn from history. Shelley McGuire (2): Yes, I am no history person. I will, I will tell you that hands down. My husband will tell you that I'm terrible.

However, if you look at what has happened with each presidency, right? Yes. And what, what tends to happen when you have a Republican versus a a Democrat in, I mean, it's kind of like black and white, almost. Betsy Cerulo: Sometimes.

Yeah. And I have, I have, my company has thrived through both Democrats and Republicans and because whenever, you know, whenever there's an election, some people say, well, were you better off? Were, and I said, well, answer is the same. It doesn't matter to me who is in the White House.

It's about strategy. Betsy Cerulo: It's about wise thinking, putting yourself in the right place, and above all, you take care of your people and you be kind to the people around you. So yeah. Is there always gonna be a shift?

Is there gonna be drama? Of course, some of us, some of us, uh, support it more than other times. Whatever the case. To survive and thrive, the responsibilities on me as the business owner.

Betsy Cerulo: Yes. And you have to diversify. Yes. Have to, have to have to.

And when you, when you go into a new agency, that seems daunting. I've looked at it that it's a new puzzle and given my years of experience, it's something new for me to learn. Shelley McGuire (2): It. No, I, I 100% agree.

It's, um, you're chartering new territory. You are being the entrepreneur that you started to be. Shelley McGuire (2): So don't get comfortable. Yes, don't get comfortable.

And I think that's the other piece of the puzzle is you have to push the envelope and that's kind of like what. Where, I mean, that's how you become a little bit more successful and, and, and look kind of like, look under the hood just a little bit to kind of understand like, what about these other agencies That can translate from what I do here to there. Shelley McGuire (2): It doesn't always, but like something that you said related, it doesn't matter who's in office. It doesn't.

It doesn't. These government workers and government contractors. Need to really look and dissect themselves. You are there for the mission.

Yes. You don't care whose butt is in that seat up in the pearly white gates. Shelley McGuire (2): Right. Like, I mean, it is what it is.

Right. It is what it is. That's right. It's what it's, you gotta make do.

You gotta keep doing Betsy Cerulo: what you do. Right. And. Stop complain.

You can complain. We all do, but for the most part, stop complaining and take action because every administration has initiatives. Some you may agree with, some you may not, uh, but you, that's what you follow. Betsy Cerulo: You follow the initiatives that either are good for your business, makes sense or matter to you.

Voice Over: Yes. Betsy Cerulo: So agreed. Agreed. So anyway, well shell, I am really grateful for this conversation.

You have just been a beacon for all of us in the government contracting industry. I love your events. Whether you do them for whichever agency you do them, you will find me at them because for listeners out there who are business owners or want to be business owners, Shelly's got it going. Betsy Cerulo: She knows.

Where to guide us and your stuff is awesome. So, Shelly, I, I really appreciate you and I appreciate this conversation. Shelley McGuire (2): Thanks, Betsy. I appreciate you having me.

I feel, you know, very honored, uh, to be with you here. And you know, my next question to you is, when are we gonna pickleball together? Well. Betsy Cerulo: I can't answer that today, Betsy Cerulo: but I think we will.

Next time you come up to Maryland, maybe we find some time to to play pickleball, because you know what? That's the other thing. With all the craziness out there, do some things that fill your soul and surround yourself with people that make you happy. If people don't make you happy, I don't care if they're friends, family, whatever, stay away from the baddies.

Betsy Cerulo: Surround with the goodies, Shelley McGuire (2): sage advice. I do the same thing. Amen. I've done a lot of cutting.

I'm about to be, I'm 48, rolling up into my fifties here soon, and there has definitely been some, um, trimming of the fat. Betsy Cerulo: I literally I hear you sweetie. I hear you. Shelley McGuire (2): I can't, I can't let this negative nels into my world.

Shelley McGuire (2): And you know, some people are like, Shelly, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. I'm like, well agree. However, if you are not bringing something to the table and if you are really not giving me something to like really think about, and if you're weighing me down. Betsy Cerulo: Yeah, no.

Because we have to balance it out. Betsy Cerulo: You know, times are, times are a little craz. Now look, times have always been crazy. I, I have been, certainly been in business a long time to see craziness and it's a little bit crazier now.

And it is what it's, it is what it is. You learn and you move forward and uh, you know, the more good people stick together, the more good that'll continue to get done. Betsy Cerulo: And that's what we're all about, right? I.

Yep. So. Amen. That's why we're sticking together.

Amen. So, Shelly, thank you again, listeners. I hope you enjoyed our vibrant conversation. There will be more, but you check out Shelly McGuire.

Shelly, how can people reach you? Shelley McGuire (2): So you can find me definitely on LinkedIn, Shelly McGuire. Shelley McGuire (2): You can find me at Shelly's events. You can find me on arm slices.

I do a lot of podcasting on there. Uh, related to any kind of topics, you know, we have the peel, which is, um, kind of like a pope on what people wanna talk about, or, uh, my former Fed Friday. Which is bringing former feds to the table to talk about, you know, the transition, what they're seeing, how to make that transition. Shelley McGuire (2): So you can find me all different ways.

Betsy Cerulo: Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Shelly. And May prosperity and goodness and happiness always follow you. So to our listeners out there, have a great day and know that you're great.

Just go do some good stuff out there, and thank you Voice Over: for listening. Thanks Betsy. Voice Over: Thanks for listening to Room at the Table. If you've enjoyed this episode, follow us on your favorite listening platform and share this episode with a colleague or two or three for resources to help you lead with purpose and build more equitable workplaces.

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