The Most Expensive Words in Sales Comp: “It Depends”

Speaker A: RevOps AF the only podcast for people who are RevOps AF and want to learn all about things that are RevOps AF. Uh,

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Speaker A: Revops runs on clarity, but too often teams are making million dollar decisions with half baked data, outdated firmographics and territory models built on GitHub work. That's why today's show is brought to you by HG Insights, the AI powered revenue growth intelligence engine behind the fastest scaling go to market teams. HG Insights gives RevOps the intelligence they should have had all along. Things like AI powered technographics across millions of companies, verified spend and intent signals you can trust deep market and account context instantly, true TAM segmentation and white space along with prioritization models that fuel pipeline not noise. This is how you stop reactive firefighting and start proactive planning. This is how you build territories and prioritized accounts that sales actually believes in. This is how you align go to market teams around a single source of truth. If you're tired of decisions backed by gut feel and you're ready for decisions backed by real intelligence, visit hginsights.com again that's hg insights.com hello everybody and welcome to another episode of RevOps AF, the podcast where we sit down with people who are RevOps AF to talk all about things that are RevOps AF. I am your co host Matthew Volum, CEO and founder of RevOps Co op, a community of 20,000 plus revenue operators from all across the globe. And today we are sitting down with the one, the only Aaron Tomlinson who is a VP of Revenue Operations over at Connective and we are going to be talking all about a topic that is certainly relevant and I'd say typically always top of mind for revenue operations, which is compensation and specifically going to be diving into I'll uh, say some stories from the front line talking about exception reporting and also some firsthand experience that Aaron has with rebuilding compensation plans, lessons learned and maybe some mistakes that have been made along the way, but also how you can wind up in a better spot on the other side. So Aaron, welcome. Thank you for being here. To get started, why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and your journey into revenue operations.

Speaker C: Love to. Thanks for having me. This is so fun. My name is Erin Tomlinson. I have been working in technology for 2526 years now. I started my career at Dell Dell Technologies. I spent half my career there 13 years I did mostly sales management and then towards my end of the Dell career moved into the sales ops and enablement area. I went back to school, got my MBA and then after that I was like I probably should get some other experiences. The last 13 years I've been mostly at uh, startups, small mid Sized companies, mostly SaaS, but lots of different industries, healthcare. Uh, I was at Eventbrite where we do event ticketing and then my last two companies have been fintech, so selling to banks and credit unions. I've typically flip flopped throughout my career between just running sales teams and then running revops or enablement functions. But I've just decided over the last couple years my passion really lies on the revops and enablement side of the house and have decided to focus my career there and it's been a lot of fun.

Speaker D: Yeah, I love it. So it sounds like across that career journey, plenty of experience with comp plans, compensation, design, all that good stuff. And I know that's what we're going to be talking about today. So to get started, uh, tell me first, why is compensation one of those things that is so messy and why can it get so messy so fast? Because on the surface even for me it's like hey, like people sell stuff, right? You pay them a portion of what they sell and like you move on. Right. But if it was only that easy. Yeah. So why is it so messy? Why is it so hard?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think one, there's a lot of people that care about compensation, right? You've got obviously the sellers and the sales managers who rely on the plan to drive the results and motivate people. Finance cares a lot about compensation plans because obviously they want predictability and to manage cost and just to make sure we're deploying our resources effectively. And then HR cares because they want to make sure things are fair and equitable and consistent from person to person. Especially like when we bring on new hires and we're ramping making sure that everybody's treated the same way ultimately. So yeah, a lot of factors to consider and then I think the complexity of plans, there's a wide range of complexity for sure in startup world most of the time you're doing a percent of revenue style plan, which is the plans I've been on for the last ten years or so. And there's different levers you can pull obviously, but as you build in more and more levers it gets more and more complex. And so I think that's a big factor too is like how to motivate the right things that drive the business strategy without creating so much complexity. That one, it's hard to administer. But it's also hard for reps to understand. If it's so complex that they're like, I don't care, I'm just going to sell what I can, then you've missed the boat on driving the business strategy through it.

Speaker D: Yeah. And so you're talking about complexity in comp plans. I know that one of the things that we talked about and we're going to talk about here is this notion of exceptions within comp plans. And so when you, in your experience, when you've come across exceptions, I guess maybe my first question is like, why do exceptions happen? Is it because comp plan, your comp plan is too complex? It's so complex that seemingly everything actually is an exception. Or is it the reverse where it's like, no, your comp plan is barely there and there's exceptions that are produced there. Like, how should people be thinking about that?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, like, in my current role it was more the, the latter. Like there wasn't enough, like, anticipation of what exceptions could happen and building that into the plan structure. I don't think there's a way to avoid exceptions completely when it comes to comp and comp plans just because there's no way to anticipate everything that could happen in a given year, Especially when your business is changing as rapidly as ours is. Like last year we acquired six new companies. Right. And so we wouldn't even know that at the beginning of the year. So how to anticipate what that's going to bring to the table and how you integrate the teams, you have to manage them as they come. But some things can definitely be structured. So a good example for us was usually at the beginning of the year, beginning of a new time period, we would move reps around or they might get promoted into a new role. And so you're moving accounts. Our sales cycles are long. When you're selling enterprise deals, especially into finance banks and credit unions, it's slow moving. And if you're like, okay, we're switching everything on January 1st, and there's no structure about what happens with your open pipeline. That creates a lot of drama internally. Right. Is it the new account owner who just took that account? Is it theirs now? When do they get it? How long do I get to work it? So, like, that's one of the items that we built in a very structured transition plan where you have 90 days to work that deal. And then it flips. And so now everybody knows they have Q1 to close their carryover pipeline and then it moves to the next rep. There may still be some small exceptions in that. Hey, you've gotten to the end of the 90 days and we're like at signature so maybe we need to extend it. But I would say like the amount of exceptions has been significantly less because we put the structure in place in the verbiage of the plan.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. The documentation part of things is the sometimes it's the last thing or that people want to do, which means a lot of times it cannot get done. But oftentimes and not just with compensation, oftentimes if you document things and you do it well, especially with AI and all the other stuff that you're trying to do, like that is actually that will get you a really long ways. Right. Something that people

Speaker C: to AI this year.

Speaker D: Yeah, it's

Speaker C: been a huge help in writing all these documents for sure. Making sure that you're thinking through all the different scenarios that could come up sometimes hard if you haven't been in every scenario to come up with it. But AI can help guide you if you ask the right questions.

Speaker D: Yeah. And so you mentioned before a couple of different departments that are involved in the mix when it comes to compensation. It's not just rev ops, it's not just the sales team. Right. There's finance, there's hr, there's other uh, call it non go to market related related teams. So my first question for you is when it comes to compensation strategy, which team should own that? Whose job should that be?

Speaker C: In my opinion, the actual like for sales compensation. I think the sales leadership and RevOps should own the overarching comp. Um, structure strategy. Obviously getting approval for that with finance and others to make sure that there's alignment. I don't think we can work alone in these things. But Sales and RevOps typically knows what is going to motivate the front line and what is not. And typically we're also building our strategy around what are the big initiatives that we're driving. And so we want to make sure that the plan aligns to those things that we know we need to do to hit our goals. I've been in organizations where there's like a specific comp team that kind of owns the plan design and you're working like cross functionally with them. As much as I love having that support, I think it's been better when we have a little bit more authority over the structure and design of the plan. And that we work with folks as a supporting role to make sure that it works in the grand scheme of the business.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. What's one big misconception that each department has about compensation? I guess I'm curious. From your perspective now that you've worked with a lot of different teams, what have you seen be a big misconception that HR might have or finance might have or even folks within revenue, operations or sales leadership might have?

Speaker C: That's a good question. I think from the finance perspective, sometimes a misconception can just be that we're throwing money at too many things we're over incentivizing. Right. And I think that's a balance you have to make. Right. Between what's going to really motivate and keep our top sellers here in the long run versus just trying to manage things from a cost perspective. And then if you're changing structures that you're not losing those things that keep people motivated. Right. For example, like implementing an overlay model when there didn't used to be one. How do you make it so that all parties are motivated in the same way and that we're not duplicating costs from a finance perspective so managing those levers. Hr. I don't know what kind of misconceptions HR tends to have. I think it's just more just making sure that we are doing things consistently and fit in a fair way. For example, hey, send me all of your the way you've ramped every new employee and just checking that we've applied some kind of consistency to that and we're not one off making decisions every time somebody new comes in or somebody gets promoted into a new role. But if you don't have that tight alignment, I think it can create the perception that we're just willy nilly making decisions and trying to support the best reps and not make it fair for the, the broader team.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, I know. At least I think I could say this because I worked in finance for, for the longest time. But at least on the finance side you have a tendency to really get ingrained in the numbers and that is your job. And when you're separated from the actual selling that's happening or the deals that are happening, like you can look at things, you can be like man, we're paying these people how much they're getting like how much revenue from this thing. I actually remember I was working at a, I was on the strategic finance HM team at a large health insurance company and this one guy I remember got a really Large commissions check. Hundreds of thousands of dollars because of this really big deal that, that they closed. And actually talking about exceptions, we had to do. There's like some exception around the time period that we were going to allow him to count it in because there were going to be accelerators and some other things.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Speaker D: And it was a. And it was a whole thing. And I just remember looking back, I'm like, man, this guy's already making how much money? What. What is he even complaining about? And then also this was like I was earlier on in my career naive me. It was like, how hard can it be? And did he really earn this money? It's. Now I understand what I hear

Speaker C: that happens a lot, especially I hate to say it with executive leaders. Right. Like where they're like, I see now that we owe this big check to somebody. Did they do all the work to earn it? And it's like, you can't go backwards at this point. This is why we have the plan and the structure. And that's why I think it's so important to anticipate these things so that there are answers in there for the broader teams on why we do things. And then you can't after the fact go change what your rules were. I think that's really

Speaker D: important. Yeah. Be like, but you didn't, like, you didn't really work that hard to get this deal over the finish line. So we're just gonna take this,

Speaker C: pass it back. Yeah. Me as the whatever leader, I jumped in and helped close that sale at the end. Yes. You provided some executive support. Support, that's amazing. But you don't realize necessarily how much work led up to that final moment where you could come in and be a hero. And so that is a common. Especially on those really huge deals and if you're paying a percent of revenue on them versus having an OTE plan that my first year here, that was a lot of the things I was getting questions about is did they ultimately earn it? And so that was a big question that we had to answer and, and create rules around where in some cases you didn't earn it. It was a bluebird that was handed to you and you just place the order. And I think that's a different situation and we need to create clear rules around. Okay, yeah. You don't necessarily deserve a million dollar paycheck if all you did was hit. Huh. Closed one in Salesforce and that was it. Right. So how do you make sure everybody understands what those situations are and it's not subjective and I think when you do that, then everybody gets it. They're like, okay, I know sometimes you l out, but when you luck out, like, you shouldn't necessarily get the entire benefit of that.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, you mentioned, you mentioned the Bluebird deals. So I guess tell me a little bit more about that, like, specific, because I want to. Like, I know this is an example of a lot of things we're talking about here. So like first, what's the, what's the definition of a Bluebird deal? At least as it relates to you all now and then? Was this something that was new, that had to be introduced? Was it something that had to be modified or changed and was already in place, but you had to fine tune it given some of the, maybe the results or outcomes that people were not seeing. Tell me more about that.

Speaker C: We didn't have anything in place for it. And so every time one of those situations happened, it became a conversation, uh, and what do we do? Scenario. And I always felt very uncomfortable with that because I'm like, the rules are, they're here. Maybe we don't have enough rules, but you can't change them midstream. Right. And so this year what we did is we clearly defined a Bluebird where that's. You did not have a significant sales effort on this opportunity. It came in through a partner, for example, or it came in through an ELT member and it was ready to close. So clear criteria. And then in that situation, we cap it. So there's a specific cap on the amount that we will count for bookings and that, uh, ultimately then, well, you'll get paid on or counted towards quota. And realistically, I don't even know if we've had any this year because the rules are clear now. But it creates a place where now we can bring those things to the table. And we've made it where the CEO and the CFO have to decide whether it's a Bluebird or not. It's not just like it is or it isn't. We have a discussion about it and people know going into it how it's being classified.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned something there about clear, like clear definitions, clear criteria. And I was thinking back to when I was leading biz ops and revops at this company. This was seven plus years ago. Like I remember one specific instance where we had a comp plan and it had some like, accelerators in there. One of the accelerator accelerators was a logo. Like, uh, I can't. What do we call it? It was like key logo or quality Logo accelerator, something like that. And it was based on, like, it's. But it was, like, basically based on the judgment of the VP of Sales, like, whether it was a quality logo or not. It

Speaker C: wasn't, like, predefined for the year.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. And I remember, like. And we had an approach that was similar to what you mentioned, where it was like, the comp plan was something that was like, ultimately, I worked with the sales leader on, um, developing it, and I, like, continued to tell him. I was like, hey, man, I really hate this. You can't. There's no definition around this. So, like, you. It's basically like, you say so. And he was like, yeah, but, like, that's what I want. And I was like, all right, like, we'll take it to the CEO. We'll see if we can get it approved. Like, CEO ultimately approved it. And then, sure enough, it was like, the first quarter that this was in place, one of the reps, like, closed a pretty big deal. The VP of Sales was like, no, this isn't. This isn't a, uh, key logo or whatever. And then paid out commissions. He came back, he was like, why? Is my commission check not what I expected it to be? Like this. This is, like, definitely a key logo. Right? And it's like, no. For whatever reason, VP of Sales said no. Right. And I hate those types of things because it shouldn't be. Yeah. Like, especially, like someone's paycheck. Right. Shouldn't be dependent on someone's judgment. Um, again, whether or not it's a key logo. Because also, I don't know, like, you can see behind me, right? I got Green Bay packers stuff. Like, to me, Green Bay, like, Packers is like a logo. Right? Like, you get that. Like, other people are going to be like, dude, like, just like an NFL football team. Don't sweat it. So I

Speaker C: think you have to define it. You can't. Like, in that example, what I would be driving is before that comp plan goes out, at the end of the comp plan, there's an appendix that lists every key account and who's assigned to them. So it's very clear up front and you know what you're going after. It's really hard to motivate reps when they don't know what it is they should be going after. And it's subjective like that. So, yeah, I don't. Other than, like, trying to manage your cost in some kind of weird way, I think you're just going to create more rep distrust and potentially attrition in Those scenarios when it's vague and subjective.

Speaker D: Yeah. Let's talk about the trust thing next. So that was one of the things I wanted to ask you about as well. I think it's two parts of this question. So one is just generally like, what are the things that work for you or maybe against you when it comes to building trust into a compensation plan?

Speaker C: I think the situations like you described where you're just making decisions on the fly, it's not documented in the plan, and people leave feeling like they've been hosed in some way. Oh, um, I thought I was going to get this. And now you're not. Now you're impacting my livelihood. Uh, you don't want to mess with people's money. It's always my philosophy. Right. They should know exactly how they can get it and then if they've earned it, they get paid it. So that's the biggest way to build trust, is that you follow through on what you said you were going to follow through on. And then where there are discrepancies or things that need to change that you actually deal with those in a structured way. Like I. This year already, we've probably done three different addendums to the plan because of things that have popped up we didn't anticipate or new things happen where we want to incentivize. It's not just enough to say that on a weekly sales meeting like, hey, guys, now we're doing this. You have to put it in a document and have everybody sign it because then they know it's official and then everybody has the document to look back to if they have any questions. And honestly, we've had very little questions about things doing it this way. It does create more paperwork for me and the team and HR to be sending all these signatures, but I would much rather do that work and be in a situation where people have trust and very clear guidelines and expectations than to be in this situation where we're constantly having meetings about exceptions or people are upset about something and you're kind of handling that after the fact?

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, 100%. And so around the trust side, again, what's your view or opinion on transparency within compensation, design and comp plans? Are you a believer that you should be sharing the ins and outs of how. How people's compensation is calculated? Are you sharing comp plan calculations? Are you a believer in telling people, like, all the business reasons, like, why the comp plans are the way they are? Like, where do you stand on the whole idea of transparency within Compensation,

Speaker C: I tend to be more transparent than maybe some because I do think it's important people understand the why behind things. Otherwise they'll make up their own why. And it's usually something that's, oh, you're just trying to pay me less or something like that. Right. And it's not always the case that we're trying to pay you less. It may be that we're just trying to drive a different behavior and that the, the total earning opportunity is still the same. It's just you have to shift your behaviors to get to where you were on a different structure before. Right. In fact, in our plans, we have a lot of different roles at connective, and we incentivize the products differently, either depending on your role or what that split of your goal is based on different products. Right. And we could very easily not show the rates that some reps get paid on things to, uh, other reps. And we've made the decision to just put the entire rate table in there for every role. So every role knows exactly what the rates are for other roles. And this is because we're on a percent of revenue, so it's not like an OTE base where we're sharing people's OTEs. Right. But a product specialist knows this is what I get paid on this product, and a, uh, core AE knows this is what I get paid on this product. And I do think that transparency, it's created a lot less confusion as well as sometimes there feels like internal competition on things. It's really eliminated that because everybody knows what they're working towards.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I'm a big believer in transparency, uh, as well. I think it is one of those things though, where you have to. There's certainly a balance though, because I have gotten feedback from others before that providing. Not that you could be too transparent, but providing too much information to people also makes them just be like, dude, there is so much here. Like, I'm not even. Like, I'm getting lost in all the details. Right. And so, yeah, you definitely need to strike a balance. But I think at least as it relates to compensation, it's people should. I, uh, think people should understand what's happening at the business and why you're making comp. Plan decisions for. Call it for better or for worse, right? Saying, hey, these are the things that are important to us as a business for this year. That's why we're incentivizing. Why we're incentivizing you or for the, like, for the, the caps, the cap example that you were with Bloomberg Deals and hey, like we've run the numbers and like for customer acquisition costs and these other reasons, like we've got to keep things below like basically this dollar amount or like this percentage in order for this to make viable financial sense for us as a business. Right. And then so I think like being upfront with that and then just at least like showing your work, like letting people understand like how their commission check was actually calculated. And obviously like there's comp compensation software providers that do a lot of this. Like we have tons of great partners in this space through, through revops, um, co op still can obviously be accomplished via spreadsheets and other ways as well. But at least under letting them understand like the math is also a great way to, can help build trust. And also at least for me, getting another set of eyes on stuff, especially things that involve math and calculations is like, hey, like I definitely don't want to be getting things wrong. And so if I know that other eyeballs are going to be getting on this thing, I actually am like feeling a lot better about that than if it was like hiding behind something somewhere. Because like the last thing I want to know is that like I've been calculating someone's commission, like a whole team's commission check wrong for 12 months and then it's spotted by someone else who, who comes in like that is. That would be my worst nightmare.

Speaker C: That's nightmare for thee right there.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker C: for sure. And I think too at the rep level it does help create that feeling of fairness, right? I think sometimes as much as you don't want reps to talk about comp and commissions and things amongst each other, right. They do. So if they feel like someone's unfairly advantaged in a way that you're not, that can be very frustrating to an individual. And if you can create the transparency around why things are the way they are and how we've really made efforts to make it fair and consistent, I think it helps create a little less drama at the rep level as well.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. All right. So we talked a little bit about AI before, but now I want to ask some more, a more tactical question around AI. So as you look at compensation management and obviously all the, the things that you've experienced over your 20 plus years in revenue operations, where do you see compensation management and incentive compensation going in this AI era? Do you think it's only a matter of time before you as a revenue operator are just like, hey, here's a couple sentences on what I want my plan to be and just like it all pops up.

Speaker C: I don't know.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. You've got the documentation, it sends out the, it sends it all out for signature. It's integrated into your CRM. Do you see, uh, do you see people building their own like internal tooling to handle their own like compensation plans? Do you see software providers winning? Like where is everything heading as it relates to compensation management in this new AI era?

Speaker C: That's a really good question. I know for me, I've just been really heavily using AI to help with the actual plan documents because that can be very time consuming. So that's been a huge help this year where instead of me literally writing these things and trying to anticipate having AI help, make sure that we've thought of all the different ins and outs and that we're using the right verbiage that's both legal appropriate, HR appropriate, rep friendly and finance friendly. Like AI really can help you balance those things. So to me that's a big time saver. Ultimately I do see like we've just invested in enterprise, uh, AI so solution and so we just got it like a month or so ago. So it's been really fun to get in there and see what kind of analysis you can do for us. A big way that we set quotas and territories is based on like the white space available. And that's always been a really challenging exercise to determine the white space and the value of the white space. And so I think AI is going to be super helpful in speeding that task up and helping us figure out like the right territory designs and things like that so that quota is more achievable and people can understand how we got to those numbers and what's ultimately the opportunity in their territories, regions, account assignments, whatever you want to call it. And then like the look back, I'm just. This week we're start, we're already starting 2027 planning. So I'm like, okay, let me. Oh my gosh, all the results. Let's look at the past couple years. Like what's been working, what's not working? Do we have the right otes, like from a market standpoint, like a lot of this research I've had to rely on other departments to do for me and now I feel like I have things at my fingertips and can do a lot more of it myself, which I think helps bring stronger recommendations to the table that are more defensible both to sales leadership and to finance especially. So yeah, I think there's so many Uses. It's like things that we were doing before but were really hard, time consuming and just hard to connect the dots. I think AI is going to make that a lot easier. But uh, I do still think that AI is not going to create my plan. Right. You have to have the understanding of the business, you have to have the judgment of what you know. Your team is going to be motivated by what the history is where there's been issues in the past that you want to proactively plan for. So you can't just throw it in the AI tool and then send it out to the reps. You have to do a lot of using your expertise to, and your experience to really validate what you're seeing and make sure that it does make sense for your specific organization too.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I don't think, yeah, I don't think AI is going to nor uh, should it have the ability to do all those things that, that you just mentioned. But I know I felt the same way with a lot of things recently where having the power to uh, not have to rely on other teams for stuff, for like getting things done I think is like such a huge value add and also creating a lot of the documentation that you need. Like you said, if you wanted to outsource your thinking to AI, it could create a lot of great documentation around a pretty shitty comp plan. Right,

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: But that's, that's not the point. The point is that you, with your 20 some plus odd years of knowledge and experience and understanding of the business, now that the company that you work in, like you're able to apply that to quickly create and iterate on documentation in order to get into the right spot so that it can address as many of those things as, as you want as you have in your head. And that's something you uniquely have as a human. That AI just does not

Speaker C: exactly. And it still takes time. It's a different type of time spent is what I'm experiencing. Right. Like I'm spending less time in the spreadsheet myself, but I'm spending a lot of time doing queries and adjusting the query and asking for something else and thinking of a new thing and then putting that in. And so like I might have 10 different things going at once in my AI chat. So it's not like an overnight thing, but I do think it helps you. It's almost like having another person on the team that you can delegate work to while you're doing your normal thing. And it just gives you a more Robust like result then that you can take to the broader team as you're making decisions.

Speaker D: Yeah. Are you. What's your AI of choice? Are you a Claude person? Are you a chatgpt person? You something else?

Speaker C: We are, we are using glean now, which kind of has all of it built in, which is so exciting. I don't know how familiar you are with glean, but yeah, it just kind of picks which one. I would say internally I think folks prefer Claude as ah, the option when you're building really nice content or doing deep expertise type of analysis. But a lot of the things that I do just like documentation decks and things like that can just be the core like chatgpt or even copilot. I know it's not an LLM is super helpful sometimes in pulling all that together.

Speaker D: Yeah. All right, one more question for you before I let you run here, Aaron. If you could eliminate one common compensation practice tomorrow, like if there's one thing within like comp plans that you could just get rid of tomorrow and it would go away forever, what would it be and why?

Speaker C: Dang, that's a tough one

Speaker D: because you have so many things you'd want to eliminate get rid of.

Speaker C: I think a, uh, problem I'm struggling with right now. It's maybe not every the longest problem, but uh, like I said, our organization is adding on new companies a lot and so we've had to figure out how to share deals as these new companies join the plan. And figuring out how to split things has been a really a big challenge right now. So that's the one I'm trying to tackle for next year is I know finance doesn't want to spend the same dollar twice, but the reps don't want to feel like they're splitting things either. So what is the solution to that? I haven't quite figured it out yet, but if we can crack that nut, that would be uh, that would be the win, I think for next year where both teams get what they want and drives more collaboration. Instead of feeling like, like amongst the reps, instead of feeling like this is mine, this is yours, I'm not getting enough for the work I'm doing. It's actually we all have the same goal. How do we hit the goal collectively and not worry so much about the, the dollars and cents within it? So that's the big one. Maybe if any of the listeners have great ideas, they can reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Speaker D: Yeah, hit chat,

Speaker C: let me know how they've solved it. Yeah,

Speaker D: that's awesome. Well, Aaron, thank you very much for joining us today, for giving us a, uh, run through on all things compensation and comp plan design. This was great, but that's all that I got for you. So with that, all at your own. But thanks for being here.

Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker D: Thanks so much for tuning in to today's episode, everybody.

Speaker B: For more great content like this, join our community@revopscooab.com and check out the links provided in the show notes. Keep

Speaker D: the RevOps safe, y'. All.