Parker Gals: Angela McCoy, May River

Speaker A: Private equity just has a bad reputation for being kind of habitual cost cutters and, like, laying people off and not investing in their businesses. And, uh, that is, in my experience, particularly at May river, like, the total opposite of what actually happens when we acquire businesses.

Speaker B: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Parker Gals. I have with me today Angela McCoy. Angela, how are you doing today?

Speaker A: I'm great, Cass. How are you?

Speaker B: I'm great. I think the fun thing about this is I just get to talk to my friends and people that I worked with in the past, um, over and over again. So, like, kudos to this being part of my day job now.

Speaker A: I love it for you.

Speaker B: Yes. So, uh, Angela and I. Actually, I was thinking about this earlier this morning. Um, when I was preparing for this, I was like, Angela and I, like, met, like, three years ago, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, like seven. Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, definitely more than six, because it was at my prior firm, and I've been at my current firm for over six years. So, I mean, at least seven, maybe eight. Honestly. Um, yeah. Long time ago. Time flies.

Speaker B: Yes. I was an intern at PSP Capital. Um, and Angela, you were. Were you a vp, Principal? Vp?

Speaker A: Well, I started there as an associate. When you were an intern? I was probably a vp. Yeah, maybe. Like. Yeah, probably.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, and so I was just doing my, like, MBA internship, like, two or three days a week in, kind of dipping in and out, and basically just wanting to hang out with Angela. And then, um, joined you guys for, like, about a month at the end of the summer, because for some reason, Booth's calendar, like, starts in September, something like that. So, like, everybody else is back at school, and we're just hanging out. And what better thing to do than just like, work for an extra month?

Speaker A: Right? Exactly. Be in the office. So much fun.

Speaker B: Yes. Um, but, yeah, we met at PSP Capital. And then currently, you are a principal.

Speaker A: Managing director.

Speaker B: Managing director. I was like, I feel like you're. You're up there. Um, a managing director at May River. So you left and joined as a principal at May river in 2020.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: So, like, can you give me a little bit about your history of kind of, like, what types of companies you've invested in, and then at May river, kind of. What. What's the mandate? What are you guys focused on?

Speaker A: Yeah. So PSP is a family office. I was on the private investments team there. And while I was there, I would think about it. Um, and you as well, when you were there, think about it as kind of more of a generalist approach. So um, functioned much like a private equity firm but investing from a balance sheet rather than um, an institutional fund. But in terms of sector, when I was there we kind of looked at the, the investment strategy as a three pronged approach. It was business services, uh, advanced manufacturing and value added distribution and food and consumer. And I think the strategy has shifted a little bit since I've been there. But um, you know it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily a you know, specifically sector focus. Yeah, sort of a more of a

Speaker B: generalist strategy which is a nice place to spend a decade learning is totally. You weren't specialized into any one, pegged into any one thing. You were kind of like able to grow into and see all these different industries and different types of businesses.

Speaker A: Exactly what I loved about my experience there was just that I got to see a really broad range of industries, businesses, size of businesses. Because we had flexible and permanent capital and a flexible approach, it enabled us to invest in a lot of different types of transactions. So we did you know, obviously buyout middle market buyout transactions. We did co investing in much larger transactions alongside different private equity firms. Ah, their venture strategy sort of started when I was there and has continued to grow as a significant, sort of a significant strategy for the firm. So I really saw a pretty broad spectrum of types of transactions, types of businesses. Um, and I feel like you know, kind of the perspective and you know experience that I built there was um, really valuable. Right. Kind of for, as a starting point or kind of foundationally for my private equity career totally.

Speaker B: And then May river focuses on. What do you focus on at May River?

Speaker A: So May river is very different. Um, you know it's a, it's a regular way private equity firm. So we're investing out of institutional committed funds. Um, when I joined Fund two had just closed. Now we're investing out of fund three. And we are a sector focused fund. So we focus on lower middle market industrial businesses. That's all we do. We're focused on businesses that um, are engineered products. They have pricing power, they're mission critical. There's a high cost of failure. There's some differentiation in what they offer, either IP or trade secrets or know how or process differentiation that enables them to command pricing power. Um, they typically have higher margins than your typical industrial and manufacturing businesses. So we target businesses that have you know, 50% gross margins, 20 plus percent EBITDA margins. So you know we don't, we play in kind of a specific niche within industrial complex but that goes across subsectors. So it's not one specific subsector. It could be aerospace and defense. It could be flow control. It could be testing, inspection and certification. It could be packaging. M. So we're, you know, we're really looking at the attributes of the business. Um, and, you know, certainly there are subsectors that we play in more than others. Um, but we're really, um, we really look at kind of the whole industrial complex.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's very cool. Um, and then you started in January 2020. No. Yes.

Speaker A: So I started in April of 2020.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Right, right as the pandemic was getting underway.

Speaker B: So they were like, here's your Zoom login.

Speaker A: Right, exactly. I started. My first day was remote, um, and remote. And I was pregnant. So it was remote and pregnant. And then, um, I think I was in the office a couple of times before I had our second child and then was on maternity leave. So 2020 was just a really strange year for me professionally, personally. I think it was a strange year for the entire world.

Speaker B: Everybody. Well, and then you had. And you had an older son too. Son who, ah, who's like, probably around and hanging around the hoop and you're just like, what do I do with it?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it was a wild time. And I remember coming into the office In January of 2021, when most people were still working remotely, but we started kind of getting back into the office in, uh, a sort of safe way. And we were talking about, you know, the year in review, and I was like, I. You know, the 2020 was a really weird year for me professionally and personally. And, you know, I don't really know what to. I'm not really sure what to say about it. Like, yes, uh, joined, um, a new firm halfway through the year, was out on maternity leave. So it was, it was an interesting time, but obviously, you know, it's been a phenomenal experience. And, uh, I love the firm and I love the people and I love what I do. Um, but it was an interesting start to, uh, a new role.

Speaker B: Yeah, major kudos. I had no idea what to expect. I had my first daughter in 2022, and I, like, in the depths of it being hard, I was like, well, at least it's not 2020. Like 2020. M. Parents are just built different.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, yeah, it was a wild time.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: We've come so far.

Speaker B: We've come so far. Um, but. And now we can do fun things like remote podcasts. This is like, I feel like an offshoot of just like the world we Live in now. Um, so we're going to get into the next section called the ioi, the indication of interests.

Speaker A: I love the names.

Speaker B: Yes. Uh, we try to have fun with this. Um, and so just, like, a couple of fun personal questions. So what's your Go to Comfort Show?

Speaker A: I would say so. I don't watch a lot of reality TV currently. I feel like a lot of, you know, people, their Comfort show or their guilty pleasure is like a Kardashian or a Real Housewives. But I would say, uh, I don't watch those regularly. So my Go to Comfort show is a little bit of a throwback. It would either be Friends, uh, which I feel like I've seen every episode five times, but could watch it again and again, or Sex and the City, which just reminds me of hanging out with sorority sisters and girlfriends and, you know, just lifelong friends that I've known forever and, um, you know, just like, chilling on the couch with them so that those, like, are feelings of comfort. Right. Um, from memories.

Speaker B: Now, are you a purist? And you watch it, like, in order when you're watching, like, hey, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna watch Friends, or you're just like, whatever episode I'm there, I know exactly where we're at.

Speaker A: Whatever episode. I've seen them all from every season for both shows multiple times. And I could watch them again and again. Um, and it doesn't. It really doesn't matter in what order.

Speaker B: Totally. I think the biggest knack that I like, Cultural knock that I like to look back on now is like, how did these people afford these places for Friends and Sex in the City? It's just like, sorry, what?

Speaker A: Right. Exactly. In that phase of their lives, they're like, that's not realistic. But.

Speaker B: Yes, but now we have Instagram that does the exact same thing. Pathway. Exactly. Um, and then what's something that you can cook without a recipe?

Speaker A: So I don't cook a lot in my current life. I, uh, wish I cooked more, but when I did cook, I could and I had more time. I would say lasagna is something I can easily cook without a recipe. Um, I feel like I've made it so many times, I definitely don't need to look at anything.

Speaker B: That was my final in high school when I took, like, a foods class. I think it was just called foods.

Speaker A: Yeah, I had a food class in high school, too.

Speaker B: It was, like, not Home EC tech. I don't know if it was.

Speaker A: No, it's foods.

Speaker B: Uh, foods.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And the final was Lasagna.

Speaker A: How'd it go?

Speaker B: It. I. I think it went well. I remember that I was paired up with people who were, like, weren't that into it. And I felt like, very. This is, like, story of group projects and, like, people probably in our industry. Right. But I was, like, maintaining control.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I remember being way more stressed than they were about foods, class. Um, but lasagna is a good one. I remember when we were working together, like, how silly this sounds now. But I was, like, I was very obsessed with Trader Joe's.

Speaker A: I remember that. I remember that.

Speaker B: Actually, I still kind of am, but, uh, I would, like, bring in Trader Joe's meals for lunch a lot or like, some kind of combination of Trader Joe's stuff. Like, quick stuff. Because back then I thought that I didn't have a lot of time, which is just. Just like, you probably were like, oh, like, wow, you're an MBA who has, like, all of the time in the world, like, but all. Love the Trader. Love the Trader Joe. Joe's meal hacks for me. Um, and then last indication of interest is, what is your perfect Saturday?

Speaker A: Oh, this is. This is a tough one. There's so many good ways to spend a Saturday. But I would say my. Our. My favorite weekend days generally, or I think if I could pick one day would be a warm day, have summer fall. It would go on some type of adventure with my kids during the day. We're like an adventure family. We like to get outside. Yeah. We, like. We. There's this, like, little farm we go to that has, like, baby animals and, like, take a tour and hold them and pet them. So something like that. Or, you know, we live in the suburbs now, but we love to go to the city and go to, like, Shed or the Field Museum or the Museum of Science and Industry and spend time doing things that are interactive. Um, so it would be something like that, one of those activities with our kids. Um, and then probably come home and get a babysitter and go out to dinner with friends.

Speaker B: Uh, yes. Yes. I love that.

Speaker A: It's always nice when you can skip bedtime. It's like a little treat.

Speaker B: It is a little treat. Yeah, it is a little treat. I like very much try to toe the line of, like, dropping somebody off to a babysitter before. I have to handle that. But I am not gonna come back until I know that. That I'm gonna check the monitor.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. 100%.

Speaker B: If I'm coming back at 9:00 clock and it's like, iffy. I'm Like I'm not walking in that door.

Speaker A: Nope. Walk around the block until that kid is asleep.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I love that. Okay, so let's get into your career a little bit. So, so what drew you to private equity, the industry in general?

Speaker A: So I started my career in leverage finance, uh, at bank of America in their Charlotte office. I was an intern between my junior and senior year in undergrad. I got a full time offer, so I joined in 2007 as a full time analyst in the leverage finance group there. M. So for those of you that were around during that time, which some of the people listening probably weren't, but that was right before the global financial crisis in 08 and 0. So I stayed in leverage finance through that time, which was a really interesting formative experience for me as a young professional. Um, but I was lucky enough to kind of stay in my group in my role through the downTurn. I did three years as an analyst and then was promoted right. To associate. Um, and I stayed in the associate role for a year. But the longer that I stayed in leverage finance, the more I realized that it was sort of pigeonholing me into a career. I, um, was learning a lot, I think, remember, like updating my resume and kind of counting the number of transactions that I had closed and it was like over 100. Right. In a four year period and like, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars in capital. Right. And so you work on just such a range and such a volume that like you can't help but just soak in so much knowledge. Right. Um, and you know, start kind of building this huge base of, of kind of how to deal with different types of situations and you learn about so many different industries. But I think I realized I don't, I don't necessarily want to decide in this moment after four years that leverage finance is what I'm going to do for the rest of my career. And we worked on obviously a lot of LBOs during that time and then a lot of distress situations for private equity businesses that were in default. Right. Or, um, or worse during that time. So I got to know kind of the industry of private equity and know firms and I, as I reflected on my experience in leverage finance, I thought this is definitely a skill set and a knowledge base that I can leverage in private equity. So. And you know, Left Fin is very transactional as well. Right. It's, it's different than private investing or principal investing. So it seemed like a natural next step for my career if I didn't want to stay in love Finn, which certainly I had the opportunity to do, but if I didn't want to, it's it for me, at the time, it seemed. Well, private equity is kind of like the natural next step for me to leverage what I've learned and the skill sets and the knowledge in something. In a type in work that's not as transactional, there's certainly a transaction component to it, but then there's a lot more after that, right?

Speaker B: Yes. Like, how many. How many platform deals are you doing a year in May at May River?

Speaker A: So as a firm, we do like two to three. Right. Um, so it's just. It's a different pace altogether. But then the majority of my time is really spent on the portfolio management and value creation. After you already own the business.

Speaker B: Yep, yep. Um, okay. So you were banking during the global financial crisis. Y. Um, switch jobs during COVID There's like, a crazy theme here. Let me know what you're doing next. Like, changes, and I'll just, like, edit my investment portfolio.

Speaker A: Coming. Something transformational is coming.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Happens to coincide exactly when I went with. When I changed.

Speaker B: Every time that you have a. Yeah, a major job, career shift.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, everything else just decides to shift with you. But that's. That's not so hard because you probably were like, you know, obviously, it's a downturn. You still have your job. In an industry where there's a ton of cuts happening, it is scary to make a decision kind of to, hey, I have some security here. In an area where, like, maybe not a lot of people do feel secure, and then to be like, but I kind of need to do this next step for me and leave this security of something that, like, I could feasibly

Speaker A: keep doing 100%, I. I really sort of wrestled with that decision, um, because I was in investment banking or leveraged finance at a time when many people lost their jobs, it was extraordinarily painful and sad to watch. Um, and there was a lot of uncertainty, and I saw, you know, just a ton of turmoil, and I felt really, honestly fortunate and lucky to keep my job. Um, and then coming out of it, I was like, to your point? I was like, do I just want to give this up? Like, I'm. What I have here is pretty good and, like, it's going pretty well. And it was a bit of a leap to say, I'm going to leave this very stable and secure job that has really, you know, treated me well. Um, along the way, a lot of people, you know, investment banking is a tough job. And it's a tough career, but I actually had a generally good experience with it. You know, global financial crisis aside. Um, I learned a lot and I worked with good people and I, you know, I liked it. Um, but, you know, I knew kind of deep down, like, I could stay and do this, and I think that would be a great career, and it is a great career for a lot of people. But I. I thought I was sort of not giving myself enough of an opportunity set. Right. Kind of like, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't want to close doors for myself in the.

Speaker B: This is the time when doors are still quite open.

Speaker A: Right, Exactly. And I was like, if I keep going down this path, I'm probably closing some doors for myself. And, uh. But to your point, it was. It was definitely a tough decision because, ah, I, you know, it's, you know, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush or whatever that saying is. Ah, like, do I, you know, do I really want to leave something that is. Has provided me with a lot of stability and, um, has, you know, been rewarding or. And move on to an unknown? Right, right. So that was. It was a difficult decision. I mean, ultimate. I'm super happy and grateful, and I think it was the right decision. But at the time, I was very torn about it.

Speaker B: Yeah. And this might get a little bit into, like, I'm curious about who has shaped your career. Right. And like, mentors and people that you leaned on. So maybe that this is probably an instance in which you probably leaned on and asked a lot of questions of people. So, you know, maybe either with this story of, like, switching careers or as you think about the arc of your career, kind of, uh, who has shaped that career and kind of how.

Speaker A: Yeah, I always think about the people that have shaped my career along the way over the arc. As someone said this to me once, and I've always thought of it that way ever since. Is sort of like a. A board of advisors. Right. Or like a personal, like, board where you are and that board doesn't necessarily stay the same over your arc, the arc of your career, but it's always individuals. For me, it's been more individuals that I don't work with that I sort of like, are in the industry but are peers at other firms or mentors and that, uh, are at other firms, but informally so. Right. Or just individuals who you meet and connect with throughout your career that become organically sort of allies. Right. Um, and champions of you and advocate for you in rooms that you're not In. Right. Um, but are not people you necessarily work with directly. Like, those individuals, I feel like, have helped me make decisions throughout my career, helped me decide sort of when it was time to look for the next role. Um, helped me negotiate. Right. Or, um, just think about, you know, have given me confidence in myself based on, you know, what they know about me that I maybe didn't have. Um, or validated. Right. Kind of what I was thinking. But, you know, there was maybe some doubt or question in my mind. So it's always been individuals like that and they haven't stayed the same throughout my career. Right. Like, they've, you know, they've kind of come in and out as like my career has grown and shifted and life phases have changed. Right. Or. And you know, sometimes those people stay throughout the arc of your career and sometimes they don't, and that's totally fine. Right. But it's always been some combination of those and it's. And it's honestly largely been. Been women, but there have been. There have been some men too. Um, but that have been sort of allies, um, and thought partners. Right. And have provided sort of an objective outside point of view that isn't colored by the people that work with you every day. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, I, um, mean, I do think there is something. Some special sauce to a. Like somebody who's outside of your everyday taking a peek in and like. Because you're just. You just like, are living the day to day with other people. Right. That might not see something that somebody from an outside perspective sees. The other thing that I think about acutely currently is so at our firm, we get really nerdy about books sometimes. And right now we're. A lot of us are reading this book called Running Down a Dream. And it has, uh. And it's a lot about like, hey, how do you find a career you're passionate about and you love and how do you like, stay in an industry and learn deeply about an industry and succeed in an industry? And I think there's a section of that book where he talks a lot about peer network, um, and like actually like caring and building with your peers around you who are at other firms who are doing the same thing, like for. Obviously for us other firms. Right. But like, instances in the book are like other sports teams or other. Sure. You know, whatever that may be in your. In your industry. Um, and I think what I especially love about your answer and what I love about that is, um, I think it's easy to like, see peers as like, almost adversarial. Or like, how can they really be that helpful to me? Um, versus we're all just gonna lift

Speaker A: each other up a hundred percent.

Speaker B: And I do think. And part of the reason that like this podcast is near and dear to my heart is I do think in Chicago we do have a lot of women that like, go out of their way. Everyone's so busy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I do think there are pockets of moments where like, people do go out of their way to like, make sure we keep this community together and try to go. I mean, you were just out to dinner this week with some women. And um, we always, we keep missing each other at the events we go to.

Speaker A: We're going to get it one of these days.

Speaker B: That's right. Um, but I, I like, am so inspired by. And you just like it. I think like, it's a huge miss when people look at their peers as maybe not fountains of information or knowledge or adversarial or somebody they're competing with. Versus like a rising tide lifts all ships. And like, how can we like an abundance mindset of like, let's share and figure out how to all navigate this together.

Speaker A: I could not agree more. I honestly the. The peer network. So when I started at psp, the firm was, you know, bigger. But my specific group was three people. When I started there was me, m. As an associate, um, who'd never been in private equity before, a VP and a managing director. And I had no peers. And I came from a, like a bullpen of like lots of analysts and associates. Right. A ton of peers. And so I had to go find that peer network outside of the firm. And it was hard at first, but I'm so happy that I did it because some of those women that I talked about earlier that are sort of like advisors, uh, or personal board members are women that have helped grow and shape my career. Women I'm still in touch with. Right. Um, and others in peers at other private equity firms were hugely instrumental during that time, number one, because I had no idea what I was doing and there was no chat to tell me how to do it. So I needed to leverage others at ah, private equity firms who had been doing this for longer than I had, um, and that I could learn from. And just at that stage and throughout the peer network for me. And again, a lot of women, but not all, um, have just been invaluable. Like, as I, as I reflect back on my career, like to, to this point, um, I'm super grateful for truly like people like you and others who I've met along the way who have made the experience so much more meaningful and have helped me be successful. And to your point, I feel like, very compelled to give that back, you know, in whatever that, however that means. Right. Um, yeah, I just be a champion for others in the industry, Help them, um, be a resource for them. Be a thought partner. Right. To the extent that it's helpful because it has really, it truly has been invaluable for me.

Speaker B: Yeah, that is a great point too. Is like, especially in the lower middle market, like, it. You're on a small team. I mean, here at Parker gale, there's like 13 of us. Like, it is lonely and like, as you think about the tiering of like, hey, I'm the only associate. I was the first associate here. I was the only one. And so, like, how are you going to learn if you don't really have necessarily like, peers in your firm? You have to go outside your firm, so.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: I think that's a great point. Um, speaking of forever learning from other people, uh, but let's think about like, you know, everything in our industry, I feel like, is just like a lifelong lesson. But. Yeah. Ah, can you tell me something that you've learned recently, um, that maybe you wish you had known earlier, that you like, didn't find out until kind of. Or didn't feel or find out until like, very recently?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think recently what I've noticed in myself is just kind of a bit of a shift in how I approach conversations or topics professionally. I feel like I, um, now have a much more profound appreciation and awareness of all of the experience that I've had as someone who's been in financial services for her entire career up until this point and have seen, seen a lot of transactions and I've seen a lot of businesses and that knowledge kind of builds on itself. And, uh, I think up until recently I still sort of viewed myself as someone who didn't like, have the answer or have a perspective that was valuable that someone else didn't have. And I didn't kind of give myself the credit for that. Um, and I'm not saying I'm the smartest person in the room or I know everything, because I definitely do not. And I'm always learning and growing and there are people who are a lot smarter than me in this industry. But I do think that I have just sort of a greater level of appreciation and awareness of the knowledge and experience and perspective that I bring and that I kind of have the confidence now to know that it's valuable. Um, and that I bring something to the table that others without that experience, knowledge and perspective don't have, and that it's helpful if I share that, um, and not, you know, you know, it. That's not seen as with like a negative connotation. Right. So I feel like I can speak with more authority and more confidence on topics than probably, you know, probably even like a year or two ago I didn't have that perspective or that, um, that awareness. Right. So I. It's definitely been like a shift, like a mental shift for me, um, that I think has honestly been really good for me and personally and professionally. But it's not. It really is something that, you know, again, maybe even one or two years ago, I didn't really. I didn't really have that attitude about it, M. Or that appreciation for it.

Speaker B: So there's a lot of times when I'm in a meeting and I'm like, well, this is a silly question. I should know it. And then like, somebody else asks that question and somebody's like, oh, that's a great question.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Oh, I shouldn't have known that.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: I think I've also gotten more comfortable at asking silly questions.

Speaker A: Totally.

Speaker B: Because I think you just assume that you have to know these things. And actually it's a. Sometimes it's a position of knowing more.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Of knowing, like, oh, we didn't hit this basic thing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, to understand the rest of it. So, like, let's go back to that basic thing.

Speaker A: Yeah. Somebody else didn't pick up on that. And you're like, actually, that's. We. They glossed over that and we should double click on it. Right. But it's. Yeah, it's actually experience. Ah. And a lot of reps in this industry that teach you what to ask and where to dig in. Right. Even if you're worried that it's a silly question or someone else might know the answer. Um, but to have the confidence to do that and not second guess yourself, like, shouldn't, uh, ask that. I'm not going to sound like I know what I'm talking about, so I'll Google that later. Right, Exactly. Um, I actually think that's a sign of, like, maturity and experience. Right. Um, and so, uh, you know, again, that's something I. It's kind of been an evolution of thought for me that has happened pretty recently.

Speaker B: Awesome. And then as we think about private equity, the industry or just in general, like, your role and what you're learning, like, what are you most interested in or excited about right now? In the industry or in your role.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or at your companies.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think uh, for me, for. I came to May river having a lot of conviction around a sector focused strategy and why that was sort of a winning strategy within private equity long term. Um, again I learned so much being part of a generalist firm, but I really felt in 2020 and when I moved over that being a lower middle market sector focused fund with kind of a very significant focus on operations and portfolio management and value creation being heavily involved in that, I really thought that was a winning strategy. And I think uh, from my perspective, what you're seeing in terms of, you know, private equity firms and kind of the trends and the momentum and where LPs want to, you know, invest, I do think that that has been very much true. Um, and so, you know, it's not necessarily something new or different or that is like a new trend or change within private equity. But I, you know, I do feel like having a lower middle market sector focused fund is kind of a, you know, is a, is a winning approach.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, like I made a bet and I think it's paying off.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, you know. And it doesn't have to be industrials. I do think industrials is well positioned right now, um, in terms of, you know, hard ass and slow obsolescence. Um, so I like. It doesn't have to be industrials. Right. I think a lot of sector focused approaches can be winning strategies in this market.

Speaker B: Yes, I agree. Um, I, I also think that's not to say that there aren't generalist firms that will continue to succeed.

Speaker A: Oh absolutely.

Speaker B: I say this about PE ops a lot too. Is like, I think there are a lot of firms that went with like a generalist PE ops partner approach and I think similar to the trend of like PE firms going into specialization that like I do think there is something to operators and you all have operators similar. Like you have people like me who are just more on like the finance side of things like having a little bit of specialization is where my prediction and our prediction at Parker Gal that like other firms are going to head towards if they aren't there already, like following a similar arc and story to how firms had an investment mandate from like generalists to people are. LPs are kind of rewarding that specialization.

Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, I see it exactly the same way.

Speaker B: All right, so, so what else? So you, you saw that kind of trend?

Speaker A: Um, I don't know that I was on like the leading edge of it. But to your point for your career? I made a bet with my career and I think it, you know, I'm, I had conviction in it and I think that that has sort of played out in a way that has been, you know, validating. I'll say.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, so as you think about private equity too, like what is a commonly held belief that uh, people have about private equity that you would disagree with?

Speaker A: So when I talk about private equity to people who are not in the private equity industry, I always say, uh, or I have always said that I think private equity just has a bad reputation for being kind of habitual cost cutters and like laying people off and not investing in their businesses. And uh, that is in my experience, particularly at May river, like the total opposite of what actually happens when we acquire businesses. When we acquire businesses, we are actually building out management teams, we're adding headcount, we're adding SGA costs, we're hiring people, we're building out a commercial team, we're building out an engineering team in businesses that didn't have these functions before. If they had the function, it was one or two people and now it's a team of eight people. Right? So. Or actually creating jobs and adding costs to the businesses so that we can accelerate growth on the back end of our investment. And so ultimately, like we're job M creators, right? And we're value builders. We're not kind of slash and burn private equity investors. And I think that reputation has been earned because of big players and kind of an old style or approach to private equity investing that isn't really, that doesn't work anymore. Or if it does work, it only works in very specific situations. And many firms, we're not the only firm that does this obviously, but we do. And many other firms are actually creating jobs. Right. And uh, um, and it's a benefit to the overall local economy in which that company operates. And for us as lower middle market industrial investors, those are kind of small towns in rural areas across the country. Like we're, we're creating jobs in, you know, middle of nowhere Ohio and Kansas and places where these jobs are big, badly needed, honestly. And so, um, I always try to like raise that because I think it's an unfair reputation or commonly held belief about private equity that is just, in my experience and in my company is, is just untrue.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, who can do that? Right? These large firms that are often the ones who are able to make the New York Times, uh, because they're doing these mega deals or these huge carve outs of Public companies. And yeah, sometimes, like, the only way to create some value is to cut. But, like, I think there are many, many. I, uh, actually should probably look at the statistics of this because I assume that it's a much larger majority, long tail. Maybe not of dollars, but of, like, firms, uh, who are in the lower middle market. And we're in, like, ideally, if we're doing our jobs right and things are going well, we're in the growth business.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker B: Hiring.

Speaker A: That's exactly right.

Speaker B: Yeah. I always. I'm m. Like, always, like, a little bit ashamed, depending on the audience. Like, I'm in private equity, but, like, we're. We're like the good guys, right?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Like, how much do you. What do you think about us? Yeah. Um, I had one of, uh, my husband's cousins. I, like, sent him something because he's an account tax accountant. I was like, oh, one of our companies is, like, hiring for this kind of role. What do you think about it? Not even to hire him, just to be like, is this, like, the right spec. Whatever. He goes, I hate private equity.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: I was like, uh, I work in private equity.

Speaker A: Like, it's just like, I do feel like you need to be, uh, sort of a source of truth for what actually go. Like, I feel. Not that I'm like a private equity ambassador, but I just feel like I have to debunk this, uh, you know, connotation or like, you know, this theory that, like, it's just an industry that, like, cut costs and eliminate jobs because that's. It's truly the opposite of what we do. Um, and, uh, again, some firms do that, to your point. Um, still. But I do feel like it's less and less because I think the market is so efficient that that's not going to create good returns anymore.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Um, so I'm right there with you.

Speaker B: We're fighting the good fighting. We're fighting the good fight. We're digging ourselves out of this reputational hol. Okay, so we are at. We made it to the closing call. Okay, deep breath. Um, so what is the best book that you've read so far this year?

Speaker A: Well, I have to admit that I'm not great at making time for reading. I don't like to say I don't have time to read because it's all about what you make time for. So I, as a working mom of two young kids, I. I don't make time for reading as much as I want, but I've started pivoting to audiobooks, which is an easier format for me, because I can do it on the train. I don't have to have a book with me. Uh, so I've started to listen to audiobooks more. I do have to stop myself from getting distracted because I'll find myself, like, doing stuff on my phone, and I'm like, I can't really listen.

Speaker B: Rewind, rewind.

Speaker A: Right. I can't comprehend what I'm listening, reading, listening to if I'm also on Instagram. Um, but one audiobook that I downloaded and listened to in completion, which is a big accomplishment for me, was, um, was Strangers, Uh, and so, so hot right now. Yes.

Speaker B: I haven't read it yet or listened to it yet. I'm a huge Audible person or, like, audio audiobook person, too.

Speaker A: So the author reads it, which I think is, uh, not the case for every book, at least that I listen to on audiobook, but I think makes a huge impact on how you hear the story because it's a memoir and it's her experience, and her reading it just, like, brings it to life so much more. Um, and she has, like, it's a. Not all voices are good to listen to. She has a good voice to listen to. Um, and it's also a fascinating story. Is a fascinating story. You have to listen to it and tell me what you think, because it has gotten a lot of buzz. And that's how I heard of it, like, by listening to a podcast where she was featured. And I was like, all right, I'm hooked. I'll. I'll listen to it. And I.

Speaker B: It was.

Speaker A: It was a good. It was a good list.

Speaker B: I have one credit on Audible, so I will. All right, I'm. I'm in. That's my. That's going to be mine for this month because everybody's like, oh, it's got everything. It's got the drama. It's got, you know, personal finance, crazy stories.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's fascinating. Um, and you also just start theorizing in your head, like, what happened, you know? Um, and everyone, I'm sure, has their own take on it. So it's really. It's a fascinating story.

Speaker B: Yes. Awesome. I mean, I'm actually. I similarly, like, I've listened to a podcast on it. I've watched, like, content on it. I'm like. I'm, like, so deep in this story without having actually listened to it or read it yet. So. All right, I'm in. We'll do a book club when we get together so you can get your mug for being on the show.

Speaker A: Oh, yay.

Speaker B: And then what is your go to karaoke song? Well, with all the time that you have too.

Speaker A: With all the time that I have to do karaoke. I, uh, haven't done karaoke in a very long time. But the last time that I did karaoke probably, or one of the last times was at a little bar called Trader Todd's, which I don't know if it's still there, but it was there and it was a gem, A gem of an institution. And they do karaoke, I think, or they did. Um, and we were there after a Cubs game. Um, pre kids, of course, as one

Speaker B: finds themselves, as one does.

Speaker A: And we had a friend in town and he. I got up with my. I don't know if we were married then or engaged or what, but my now husband and sang Firework by Katy Perry. And our friend, who I love dearly, got it on video, um, which, you know, will now be forever. And he sent it. Even if the video is deleted off his phone. He sent it to like 25 people who all have it. And so I wouldn't say it's my go to song, um, but it is a song that will forever remind me of karaoke because it's like seared in my. Seared in my memory.

Speaker B: Next time you are in a situation where karaoke is an option, it will probably be a top pick in your mind because you're like, well, how could it not? Run it back. Let's just run it back. Yeah, I, uh, I pass Trader Todd's a lot. And my, my husband and I always talk about like, oh, that would be. You know how like in fantasy football and stuff, like, there's like this huge trend of like, if you lose, what you must do. Yeah. He's like, oh, a good one would be like, you have to sit in Trader Todd's for an entire day, but you can only order water, like, or like soda or whatever where they won't kick you out. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, it would be highly entertaining.

Speaker B: Listen to everybody for hours on end, especially as the night progresses. And I was like, I don't. I don't know if I would consider that a punishment. Like, I think that would be pretty fun.

Speaker A: It would be entertaining. It'd be entertaining. You'd come across people like me, 20, whatever, seven year old me, uh, however old I was.

Speaker B: I think that'd be great. Um, I think I would also be like, can I sing? I'm a horrible karaoke singer. But I do, I love the sport equally as horrible. So, yeah, very fun. Um, okay, last question. Um, what did 10 year old you want to be when you grew up? And how far off was she?

Speaker A: Oh, she was so far off. Oh my gosh. She was.

Speaker B: So you didn't have this in your future? Uh, she didn't know about private equity.

Speaker A: No. And that's what I think is so funny about like reflecting on a question like this is that so 10 year old me wanted to be a marine biologist, which I think is like not uncommon actually for kids. Right? Like they're like, oh, I want to go like swim with dolphins and.

Speaker B: Well, dolphins are cool. Yeah. And sharks and whales and um, Yeah.

Speaker A: I knew nothing about finance, I knew nothing about investment banking, I knew nothing about private equity and frankly didn't until I was in college, like even entering college. So first marine biologist. And when I realized that might not be like a gainful employment, like a bio class. Oh yeah, no, I actually entered undergrad pre med. So I pivoted from marine biology to uh, pre med, majoring in biology, um, and was very convinced that that's I wanted to be a doctor. Um, and then I was doing some sort of like internship at a hospital where you can like observe surgeries and I uh, was in the room for like a hip replacement and almost passed out like full well on like, like nearly. I like had to take myself out of the room because I was like, I was having like an out of body experience. I didn't faint, but I was like probably the closest I've ever been to fainting. And at that moment, and after organic chemistry that I did do well in, I said, okay, maybe pre med's not the right track for me. I don't know that I have like the wherewithal. If I can't watch a surgery, I probably can't perform one. Not that. And obviously there's a million types of medicines, you don't have to be able to do surgery. But I was like, maybe this is not the profession for me. So uh, I pivoted to business because I was like, well, what else is there? I don't know. You know, I'll just try this instead. Uh, I mean, honestly, just like you know, throwing darts at a wall, I had no idea. But 10 year old me was a marine biologist, 16 or 17 year old me was pre med and I'm going to be a doctor. And then all of those vanished because I was like, I don't actually, I don't think I can actually do any of these things.

Speaker B: So that's the right move though is like, try it a little bit Right. If you didn't go see that hip replacement, uh, when you did, if you would have waited, like, forget organic chemistry for a second.

Speaker A: Yeah. Which is very hard, by the way. Oh, it's really hard.

Speaker B: Again. I could never, like, the science class I took in college was, like, hazardous weather.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Science is not my forte.

Speaker A: Um, I love it. But when it gets, like, super quantity, like, I was like. It's like. And it does, obviously, in, like, the advanced levels. I, like, I was interested in it, but I was like, this is not how my mind works.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, can't, uh, do it to those people. Yeah, no, they're brilliant.

Speaker B: Um, but it's a good thing that you didn't, like, scrub in or, like, you know, witness that, like, senior year.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, doing that early was probably very helpful.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it was. I'll never forget it. Um, and I was like, all right. My dreams of being a doctor are now gone, though.

Speaker B: Shattered.

Speaker A: Yeah, shattered.

Speaker B: I mean. Yeah. And then you ended up in a totally different career, and you're. You know, if you don't mind me saying, you're crushing it. Right. I think of you as one of my, like, a board of advisor to me, even though I don't. We don't see each other as much as I'd like to, but I like you, uh, are somebody that I aspire to be like, so.

Speaker A: You're the best. Uh, right back at you. Right back at you.

Speaker B: Thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me. I'm so fun.

Speaker B: Very fun, as I expected it to be.

Speaker A: So fun. I'm so honored that you wanted me to be on here, so I'm super appreciative. And also, I just got to spend 47 minutes talking to you, which is gonna by far be the highlight of my day.

Speaker B: So no offense to any other meetings you have today.

Speaker A: No, none of them.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: No. But definitely the highlight of my day, so thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to, like, have a fun conversation with you. This is. This has been so wonderful, awesome.