Amos Fodchuk on Bridging the Literacy Gap in the Age of AI

Speaker A: I. I think if there is a through line at this stage in what is really a forced transformational event, in some ways, the, the onslaught of AI is no different than CO. COVID19 and how quickly it came on and scaled and continuously evolved. I think the through line is literacy, Anika. Like, the more experience, the more awareness, the deeper the understanding the that anyone, whether it's a student, a teacher, a superintendent, a school board trustee can have, the more they can play to their strengths. Right. Like, I think what happens in transformational waves is that our strengths are taken away from us as a function of this wave of irreconcilable and seemingly unmanageable pace. And literacy is an antidote to that.

Speaker B: Welcome to Practical Pedagogy. I'm Professor Annika Jackson. Isn't whether AI belongs. It's already here. The real question is how do we guide students and workers to use it thoughtfully, ethically, and strategically? Every week, I'll interview students, educators, researchers, and industry voices to explore the real strategies, frustrations, and breakthroughs happening in classrooms and beyond. We'll talk through what the art of teaching for the future of work actually looks like. I'm thrilled to have one of the kindest, most practical and smart people in education that I know. And Amos, I hope I'm not overstating that for you, but that truly is how I feel. Our, um, many interactions and conversations. You are the president, founder at Advanced Learning Partnerships, which is an educational consulting firm that you launched in 2009, but runs hundreds of active partnerships with K through 12 universities, corporations, government agencies, not just across Virginia or the United States, but also in Canada. You're also a national board certified teacher, Fulbright scholar, and you love helping organizations navigate through innovation and sustainable change. What that looks like right now, of course, is how do we integrate generative AI and AI in general, well and smartly. So thank you for being willing to come on Practical Pedagogy and share some of your expertise and what you're seeing in the field with us today.

Speaker A: Well, thanks, Anoka. It is a lovely conversation. Any opportunity I have to visit with you is one I look forward to. And so here we are. Let's have a great time. And I really appreciate that kind introduction.

Speaker B: Well, uh, let's talk about getting from being a teacher, a scholar, a teacher of the year twice, to going from the classroom into organizational change work for education. Ah.

Speaker A: Uh, well, like most journeys, they're, uh, they're circuitous as opposed to straight vectors. I grew up in the home of entrepreneurs and didn't like the lifestyle at all. So the only reason I became a teacher was because my guidance counselor had no idea how to help me become whatever I was supposed to be. And he, in a fit of exasperation, asked what I didn't want to be. And I said I didn't want to be an entrepreneur. And he jokingly said, well, you should be a teacher then. And that, in my rebellious teenage mind, is what set me off onto this amazing career that I would never give back for everything and a decade of curriculum design and pedagogical inquiry and just straight up learning, just understanding how powerful the connection that a classroom can make in community, in learning, and really just in terms of possibilities. And so that's ultimately how I became a teacher. My wife, Katie, is an organizational psychologist. And so lots and lots of conversations at the dinner table and hiking on mountain trails around organizational change. Human capacity development really kind of saturated my lens for education reform. And after 10 years of watching kids thrive in one classroom and language and another, much less on the same day or the same week, I realized that I was not going to leverage the change that I knew education needed from the classroom. And so that's how I started aop. And everything since has really been one surprise after the other.

Speaker B: Wow. And your partnerships, right, you have them throughout again. Virginia, United States, Canada. Do you have a typical type of engagement or are they all very different?

Speaker A: That's what's so cool about this. Uh, we work with school systems that are really nothing more than a one room schoolhouse in rural Wyoming all the way to the Arctic Circle, to the largest metropolitan school systems in the continent. There really is no profile. I think what makes the work so rewarding is that AOP's capacity to support change includes but isn't limited to technology. It includes, but isn't limited to strategy. We work with, uh, cohorts of principles around best practices in leadership development as often as we do not. Navigating in the boardroom the integration of AI at scale. And so it can be anything and everything on any given day. And very grateful to our team for creating the platform and the infrastructure that allows us to facilitate that support to school systems all over the continent.

Speaker B: Uh, and I don't think those are disjointed issues. Right. Thinking about best practices and then thinking about integrations of new technology throughout an entire school system, whether it is that one room schoolhouse in the Arctic Circle or the largest school system on the continent.

Speaker A: Yes. And we're no strangers to technology. I think over the years, ALP has been a partner in somewhere between six and 700 one to one initiatives, hundreds of personalized and blended learning efforts. And so, you know, we've learned as kind of pedagogilists. I don't even know if that's a word. We lead with pedagogy. We lead with a bias toward learner centered outcomes. And the fact that our team also has backgrounds as technologists allows us to cross that medium that is often really challenging to navigate, which is the pillars of operations versus teaching and learning versus technology versus school system at scale versus schools as magnets in each sub component of a community. And so being able to kind of help bridge those gaps helped us really anticipate and then navigate the transformational wave that AI brought here coming on almost four years ago. I remember when ChatGPT first became kind of a, um, Xerox or a Kleenex noun, verb real quick. My close colleagues and I knew this was going to be something that we had read about and anticipated in science fiction. It was here. And so, uh, we reached out to a small number of school systems and asked them if they wanted to conduct a review of the literature and just make sense of what this is and what's coming. And so our first partnership with Fairfax County, Virginia started I think two weeks after the winter break in January of 2023. And since then we've worked, I think we're coming on close to 400 school systems that we've worked with very intentionally around strategy and just organizational change driven approaches to integrating technology like uh, AI with purpose. And we've learned so much. We have learned so much, Annika. Every day since then has been vibrant and sometimes absolutely overwhelming.

Speaker B: Well, and I'd love to, uh, talk to that a little bit because some of the conversations I've had are AI in partnership with specialized personalized learning students learning AI at the job and then being replaced with it versus going into other companies that are making, that are drawing the line and saying humans first AI as a tool to use when necessary. People have talked about the issue isn't AI in the classroom, it's infrastructure or governance. So what would you say is the issue that you've seen be the big through line in these conversations? If there is one.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh. I think if there is a through line at this stage in what is really a forced transformational event, in some ways the onslaught of AI is no different than CO COVID 19 and how quickly it came on and scaled and continuously evolved. I think the through line is literacy, Anika. Like the more experience the more awareness, the deeper the understanding that anyone, whether it's a student, a teacher, a superintendent, a school board trustee can have, the more they can play to their strengths. Right. Like I think what happens in, in transformational waves is that our strengths are taken away from us as a function of this wave of irreconcilable, uh, and seemingly unmanageable pace. And literacy is an antidote to that. Uh, schools are dramatically important. I think they're more important than they've been since the onslaught or the onset of the Internet, because technology in the last 30 years has really taken us away from our physical community and has challenged us to prioritize the virtual against the real. And I think that AI has now done something that even social media couldn't do, which is create this microcosm within ourselves. And it can, it can create as much depth around the promises of personalized learning as it can create a deeper form of loneliness and isolation in our own communities. And so the more people can understand what this is and what it isn't, the more they can understand who they are and who they're not, the better a chance that we have as individuals and eventually as a collective to shape this the right way. And right now I'm, uh, not sure where we're going. We're certainly going fast.

Speaker B: Interesting. So this literacy idea, or shared literacy is something that you've also mentioned. What does that look like in practice to make sure that everybody, all the key stakeholders are actually on the same page, have the same information?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, for about 14 of the 17 years that ALP has been serving communities, we've adopted predominantly this community engagement model where we work exclusively with a community, regardless of their size, their demographics. We're present, we're there. Your problems are our problems. Your opportunities are ours. And that, huh, that worked really well. Because of the transformational nature of AI, we adopted a very different strategy out of the gates. We adopted a community of practice model that allowed for multiple communities to engage with ALP transparently in real time and to achieve scale faster and to create a, ah, network of practitioners that, that will outlast even our support. And so I can give you great examples on two sides of the continent. One is in Virginia and a second is in British Columbia in Virginia. We realized very early on that the state government was going to provide some general guidance guidelines for how AI may or may not be used, but it was never going to be practical for school division leaders and, or school leaders. And so our partnership with the Superintendents association enabled us to reach 75 out of the Commonwealth's 131 school systems in a statewide community of practice model where we worked with approximately 500 senior education leaders from these school systems and helped them produce the literacy and the applied practice of using AI tools to create the guidelines, the frameworks, the principles, the professional learning and communications plans that they would need to operationalize AI with purpose. Out in Vancouver, in the metropolitan area of this beautiful city, we had a long standing relationship with 14 out of 17 of that city's school systems. And so we adopted a phased approach where over the course of three years we've identified different problems of practice. And so just in May, I was there with my team to watch operations teams who spent eight months building their literacy around AI usage, transforming that into exceptional solutions. Absolutely amazing. True ROI contributions as a function of learning together right next to the curriculum and assessment folks who were, who are identifying true opportunities to answer that promise of personalization in a way that, you know, the last generation of ed tech never was prepared to solve. And so you see these continued communities of practice, right, where once they're established, they're self sustaining. So going back to Virginia for just a second, our uh, partnership with the Superintendents association and Virtual Virginia, which provides virtual professional learning experiences for educators going back to the 1980s through closed circuit TV and cable channels, we, we've partnered to create virtual courses for 65,000 Virginia teachers. So in over 100 out of 131 school systems, 65,000 educators are going to take beginning, intermediate, advanced courses that will augment their literacy and have a direct impact on student literacy as a function of fulfilling the role that they should in classrooms, which is, is the facilitators of learning with children.

Speaker B: Both, like you said, disparate the very interesting case studies and use cases for how you can integrate AI solutions, starting with a literacy piece before you even perhaps get to okay, then what are we teaching our students?

Speaker A: That's right. Yeah, that's right, that's right. I think a really important component in that work, Anneke, is that we have always adopted a competency based approach, meaning that before we start acting, before we start moving resources to and fro, we're genuinely interested in defining objectively what are the knowledge, skills, dispositions of a learner. Whether a learner is a child or an adult, they remain learners to the degree that they're in a learning organization. And so I think where, where I've seen the best, best, uh, implementations of AI, it's been where school systems have been very intentional about defining granularly what the competencies of the humans are prior to the technical rollout of the technologies. And so you see school systems that are making slow, incremental and purposeful progress. They're not experiencing some of the growth pains of a rapid technology adoption or. And this is something we should probably talk about, Annika, the banning of technology, which is the recoil against the shortcomings of an undercooked implementation.

Speaker B: Yes, and we can definitely talk about that now. That is definitely something I had highlighted as one of your pain points. And I saw that in my daughter's own school is, you know, having the bands on cell phones, having to leave your give your cell phone up at the beginning of every class the way her school district did it. That really didn't serve a purpose. Particularly when a teacher might be asking a student to do something on their phone versus on their laptop.

Speaker A: Yeah. I will just say this. I am not a technology fanboy, I am not a technology apologist. I think the amount of excessive, pointless, low level usage of technology is a real issue. I would argue as a parent to teenagers as much as an educator to other people's children that the same chronic issues exist in the home as they do in schools. So when we're thinking carefully about the purposeful use of technology, it's very easy to devolve into a finger pointing kind of exercise where, you know, this is a school problem. No, this is a home problem. At the end of the day, it is indisputable that the social, emotional health of everyone has been adversely impacted by the flood of social media portable devices and now AI. Uh, that's indisputable. And, and ALP is like many other companies that has built into its selection process for highly compensated jobs performance tasks that involve the use of AI. You literally can't get a job at my firm unless your workflows include transparent, strategic and dynamically evolving usage of technology.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Um, so how, how do we bridge the gap there? I think we, we bridge the gap through literacy. And you can't achieve literacy for students without literacy for teachers. That's why at the end of the day, banning does not solve the medium to long term problem. And it also creates a whole new form of demands on schools and teachers when you outlaw something that human beings are inevitably going to use, whether you adopt a bureaucratic policy or not.

Speaker B: I really appreciate the fact that you're talking about literacy for instructors, for faculty, for staff, at any level before we bring it into the classroom, because I think most I mean, I'm at the university level obviously, but what I've seen is students are using AI, we're telling them not to use AI, we're banning it from the classroom, or we don't know how to use it enough to tell them how to use it properly for their prompts or for their assignments that help them learn and iterate without losing their critical thinking. And then all of a sudden, oh, it's okay to use AI. We have a, uh, contract with ChatGPT or name your LLM here that schools are now kind of putting forward, but still without that inherent training and shared literacy that you're discussing. And so there's a big issue that I think is the reason why there's so much fear and misinformation perhaps around technology and how to properly use it and how to segment it and figure out what the next step is.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, uh, mean, look, I understand why the fear is there. I am fearful of the unregulated, rampant scale up of a technology that even the programmers aren't fully aware of the capacity that it has at any given point in time. This is, I mean the Greek, the Greek and Roman and Norse folktales and mythologies are relevant here. We're dealing with something Pandora like. And I think that many industries, many verticals are going to be disrupted by AI applications, especially as they become more specialized and solve for specific use cases. I'm really concerned about young people who have not or are recently entering yet entered or are uh, recently entering the workforce. It's very easy to use AI in its current iteration to accomplish tasks more cost effectively than using an intern or using someone who's in the first trimester of their career trajectory. Yeah, that's scary. But I also, I think there's another rail that we need to call out and that is assessment. How are we evaluating learning? How are we documenting improving knowledge and skills acquisition that's going to get laid bare by AI tools. And it's already happening. And the conversations about cheating are real, but they far too often aren't. Uh, accompanied with an honest self assessment of why are we using the same assessment over the course of multiple decades? We need to be in the work, we need to be in play, we need to be in contexts that allow us to interact and create and critique. And doing that in a dynamic way is where we'll find kids who are more satisfied to come to school than they might have been taking multiple choice tests or filling in blue notebooks with lined paper. I'm not against those right like we can't abandon the skills of thinking, of writing, of creating. I don't want to live in a world where people don't know things.

Speaker B: You framed this as human intelligence plus artificial intelligence rather than AI replacing human judgment. So to your point, what is that line for you between augmentation and outsourcing thinking? And with that, how do we build fluency versus being fearful or overusing artificial intelligence?

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, last April, ALP was a sponsor for the Mental Health Summit in Banff, uh, Alberta. And the focus of that summit brought researchers and practitioners from all over the world to discuss that exact question. We're already looking forward to that event again in 2027, where we will, we will, we will be a presence in that space again. I will also call out that Surrey Schools in British Columbia is a, ah, continental leader in making the conversation accessible to all. Uh, and the superintendent, Mark Pearman, has done a beautiful job with his team of making, of demystifying the conversation and helping stakeholders of all perspectives find their voices and, and collaboratively design a, ah, learning experience that benefits all. And to do that in a way that is more than just using the buzzwords. They hold themselves accountable to a pace and a trajectory of ongoing change. And so when you look at a healthy learning organization, they're investing in their talent, they're investing in their systems, they're investing in their learning ecosystems. I find it very interesting that while everyone is talking about technology and AI, there are communities talking about playgrounds and talking about the power of play, talking about what learning looks like in an expeditionary modality. And so we live in a time that is either or black and white. The reality is that purposeful technology is best applied within the context of purposeful living. And when you're addressing the system and the various drivers that allow for people to discover the fullness of them, themselves and each other, the shrill, alarmist issues around AI get modulated. Because it's not just what we're talking about. We're not just talking about technology, we're talking about purpose.

Speaker B: Mhm. To that point, I think that if you look at Scandinavian countries, for instance, there's a high rate of people in general participating in activity and sport, and also a high rate of technological adaptation. So it doesn't have to be an either or, it's not black and white. You can have both. But it's all about the guardrails you put into place, the systems, and that shared literacy, perhaps it is, and a

Speaker A: collective set of values that, you know, a smaller country of, you know, 6 to 20 million can hold more intimately than a country of hundreds of millions. And that to me is. You know, as an educator, I've heard for a long time about the power of education in Scandinavian countries, and there is no disputing that. But I do think that values matter, and collectively held norms are important in a, uh, continuously evolving and growing learning ecosystem. And I think that's an important variable where folks see the collective power in education and value their teachers socially, financially. There's no utopian country where, you know, everything is perfect, but schools are and should be and can be sources of community growth and stability. They can be kind. And the best schools that I've visited and that I've supported, everywhere I've ever been, have kind of been those things. So I think this idea of what we value and how we act toward protecting, preserving and uplifting what we value is an important conversation to have.

Speaker B: And have you seen that, be part of this conversation in your partnership work, where AI might have become the catalyst for change that isn't just about the technology, but is actually about how are we framing our values, how are we making sure that we're putting humanity into the process and that we're making sure that we are all learning what we need to be learning and that we're doing a really good job of being stewards for the next generations?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there, there. I can think of a couple dozen communities that started well, that our partnership with them started on day one with an examination of their core principles. What are the principles of learning? And that's an exercise that we challenge leaders to adopt in their usage of AI tools, is to have an experience behind using the tools before you even get to policy or guidelines or frameworks like, how are you discovering your own learning using these evolving technologies? And we give them an opportunity to practice using those tools by committing to core principles of learning. And I think that when, through a systems change lens, when a community starts by identifying its principles or values and then holds itself accountable for maintaining them through the busy chaos, that becomes a bit of a North Star. And I know you know this. Universities and school systems alike are very aspirational, and you can find mission and vision statements everywhere. But the real magic lies in how people uplift those small decisions and those important actions that happen every day. That's where you see whether an organization stays true to its vision and mission and its values, or if they're just words on a wall.

Speaker B: Yeah, couldn't have said it better. I am curious about, um, shifting it into the classroom. How have you seen that transformation of perhaps the key stakeholders moving from this is a threat to, oh, this is actually a tool having that aha moment of how they want to properly execute pedagogy in the classroom?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm thinking of partnerships. So the province of Saskatchewan is engaged in a very thoughtful collaborative effort to create the support structures and the resources that teachers will need to lead purposeful learning. AI is part of it, but they're addressing this through kind of multiple pillars.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And so where I think we can learn a lot, and we often forget, is that rural communities are very practical. They're very used to getting by with fewer resources and fewer specializations, and they're also deeply connected to one another through their immediate communities. And so where I've seen some of the best pilots have, they've been in rural communities because there's relationship capital there, there's a degree of stability. And so I do think that what matters for teachers is, is that they don't have enough time to do everything that's asked of them. So the first step that I see the people in Saskatchewan kind of focusing on is purely from a time perspective, how will this work? Consequentially give time back to educators to spend with children? That's it. I think another key component that we can learn from communities that we're not used to focusing on are the relationships that teachers and school principals have with one another and the degree to which they're working to earn a deeper working relationship with families. Because we adopt such a testing rich mindset, we tend to think of students as these performers on tests and we often short circuit the families inadvertently, but nonetheless. And when you think about a school as a hub in a community, ironically, you end up doing better on test scores by not teaching to them. When you have a deeper relationship between the child, the teacher, the school principal and the family. And it's a difficult, uh, tipping point to achieve. But again, the school systems and the communities that are making the most impressive process and progress are those that are working toward that outcome as opposed to those short term lagging indicators that doom us to repeat the same missteps year after year.

Speaker B: Yeah, I really appreciate the framing of bringing along all the stakeholders, making sure there's shared literacy and making sure that we're adhering to our community's values and figuring out how integration for technology, whether AI or not, is part of that. Not instead of the conversation being, oh gosh, there's this new technology that's changing everything and we have to Integrate it everywhere. I think that's. That's a very different framing than perhaps other people are seeing in the community.

Speaker A: I think it can be. Anuka. I think. I think that's very astute. I wonder 10 years from now if high school will look like it does today. I hope it doesn't. And I also wonder what types of pathways will young people have earlier in their adolescence than we've let them have, probably since the beginning of the industrial revolution? 13 years to sit in buildings filling out worksheets and reading textbooks is too long. It just is. And I think we're hurtling toward a society that will demand our citizens to be even more educated than we have in the past. But we can't get to that level of saturation or we can't get to that level of purposeful engagement in this current model. And I, I think there will be more opportunities for local businesses and high schools to collaborate. I think that the Department of Education, the Department of Labor, the Department of Commerce might continue to experiment with different ways of incentivizing innovation. Uh, between local businesses, nonprofits, municipal and state agencies, and school districts, I see no reason why a child has to get on a school bus for 12 to 13 years and go through this compliance exercise of graduation if they have a vision or they're receiving opportunities to explore different ways of creating meaning as employees, entrepreneurs, service members, community leaders, family members, democratic citizens. That's the whole point of an education system. I think there's opportunity in front of us.

Speaker B: Uh, there's a lot of opportunity. I love your future vision. I just wonder what it's going to take to get there. Right. And you're able to affect change and work with a lot of people, but looking at the entire continent, not even looking elsewhere, there's still so much work to be done big time.

Speaker A: And I don't know how much of it. Like, there are some monopolies out there. This is where we get into the subversive nature of the podcast. You know, like, there's a monopoly that school systems have that is not sustainable. There's a monopoly that universities have around a $400,000 undergraduate degree. There are judgments around college going versus workplace driven pathways. There are financial interests in maintaining that. And so I don't know how much of this change will be progressive, incremental, and mutually sustained versus some of these models are probably just going to break. And then they'll be fixed, and they might not be fixed by the same people who are maintaining the old ones. And I don't know I'm an implementer. My team and I are implementers. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about that level of disruption. But I'm also a student of history, and that's how Renaissances come about. That's how moonshots occur. It's when we set our sights on something we didn't think we could do, and then we go about the work of doing it.

Speaker B: Yeah. There's so much more we could discuss, but I always love to leave the audience with more to think about. And a little teaser. I'd love to hear a little bit about your partnership with what School Could Be and the Multiple Choice documentary launching on pbs. Talk to us about that and what it looks like.

Speaker A: Yeah. So Ted Dinter Smith is the producer of that movie, uh, and other pieces of media. He is a very unique and amazing human being. And I've had the privilege of growing to know Ted over the last eight or nine years through some of the work that we've done together. And Multiple Choice is a very interesting movie to me because Superintendent Jason Van Hookelam, who is one of the characters in that movie, is also a close personal friend. Our organizations have worked together over the last decade. So my team and I know the community of Winchester very well. And we're honored to see that community story be told so powerfully by Ted and by the citizens in Winchester Public Schools. That work matters to us because Winchester is not a special community. Its free and reduced lunch population is well over 50%. They are dealing with the same problems that every other school system is around. Literacy and numeracy acquisition. They're dealing with every issue, including in their community, around changing industry and the need for families to work even harder to afford homes that are increasing in cost. So Winchester is not a special community. What happened in Winchester could happen anywhere if a community sets about achieving it. And so our work with what School Could Be and support of Multiple Choice Documentary is to bring the same resources and the same support that Winchester invested in its community to other communities that would like to realize their own vision of what comes through in that documentary.

Speaker B: Wow. Fantastic. We'll have to link that when it's available. This episode will come out prior to that, but we can definitely add it at a later time. Again, there's a lot more for us to discuss, and you'll have to come back on again when we've gotten a little bit further in this work to see what's next and what other changes have happened. But, Amos, as we wrap up what's a guiding principle North Star that you come back to whenever the work gets complicated or the path forward perhaps isn't clear.

Speaker A: You know, I really believe in learning. I believe in human beings at their best when they learn. And I see that in my own loved ones. I see that when I walk down the street in anywhere that I am. I think that the most beautiful and powerful state we can achieve is as learners. And so I have the best job in the world because I get to explore that every day with amazing, talented colleagues and these leaders in school systems that welcome us into their work. So when I feel like things are a little bit too complex or aren't moving in the direction I want them to, I find myself in a school and we're right back at it.

Speaker B: Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on Practical Pedagogy, Amos Flodchak and for all of the examples you gave us from around the continent, truly, From Virginia to B.C. to everywhere in between. The work that you're doing is helping create that shared literacy, create that community with the key stakeholders that will make decisions for what the future of schools look like. As you said, it could be profoundly different and we've needed a change for a very long time. I can see you being one of the people who helps make that happen.

Speaker A: Thank you, Annika. I see the same in you, and I appreciate your vision and the platform that you make available to folks like me. And I deeply appreciate our relationship and the brokerage that you exercise for educators.

Speaker B: M thank you. And of course we will have your LinkedIn in the show notes as well as the link to Advanced learning partnerships. Is there any last comment that you'd like to leave today?

Speaker A: No. I hope everyone who's listening to this has a wonderful finish to their summer and finds powerful ways of learning this fall.

Speaker B: Fantastic. And thank you to everybody who has found this podcast. This is truly a labor of love and passion. Uh, something that I think is one of the most critical issues we're going to deal with in our lives is not just the advent of technology, but how are we good stewards of our relationships with others, building that community so that we are teaching the right things with and without AI and other technologies? I'll be back again next week with another great guest. Practical Pedagogy is a production of youf Rand, Amplified and Bradley Films. New Episodes drop Thursdays. Please leave us a Rating Review Share us with somebody else who needs this message and subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.