#3 Sam Parr: From The Heartland to The Hustle | The Art of Business & Building a Network

Speaker A: From Powder Keg headquarters in Indianapolis. This is Unvally the show for leaders who want to unlock their full potential and plug into the biggest opportunities in tech and startups beyond Silicon Valley. I'm Matt Hunkler, CEO of Powder Keg and on the show today, the co host of the My First Million podcast and the founder of the Hustle, Sam Parr.

Speaker B: I hosted this event called hustlecon and the idea was I was, I was not, I'm not technical, I was like I'm get a bunch of non technical founders to speak at this event and in order to get speakers, I'm going blog about it and create a newsletter. And I was like, best case I break even and I meet someone who I could partner with and eventually start a company with. Worst case I just lose a little bit of money and I learn a new business and have fun. So I created this event and we hosted it and like 400 people came and I made like 50 or 60 grand in profit.

Speaker A: Sam and his team went on to build hustlecon over several years to include speakers like the founders of Pandora, Bonobos, Twitch and dozens of other well known tech companies. But the conference was just the beginning of something much, much bigger. During this conversation with Sam, you're going to hear about the simple writing technique that helped Sam create enormous opportunities in his career, including at hustlecon. You're also going to hear about how to optimize your career for success even if you don't have money or connections. I particularly enjoyed the Midwest values that Sam talked about which lay the foundation for his successful career in tech. And be sure to listen to the end because you want to hear why Sam is investing in real est in unvally tech hubs like Austin. That's all coming up on this episode of Unvally. But before we get started, I wanted to remind you that Unvally is brought to you by Powder Keg, the only private member network focused on supporting tech companies and leaders in fast growing communities beyond Silicon Valley. To get the latest news from unvally tech hubs and startups in the Unvally, be sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter because each week you're going to get a curated digest of the most important tech news in the unvalley, covering the biggest trends and opportunities in fast growing communities beyond the Bay Area. This is where the biggest opportunities are. So to be the first to know about the best jobs and exclusive Powder Keg events with leaders from the community, be sure to subscribe to the newsletter@powderkeg.com Newsletter. Okay. We recorded this interview with Sampar during a virtual event that was hosted by Powder Keg. And we're sharing it publicly with you for the first time, just for you here on the Unvalley podcast. Let's hit it.

Speaker C: Sam, thanks so much for eating with Powder Keg and the unvaly community community today, man.

Speaker B: Nice. I've never been called an artist before, so that's cool.

Speaker C: Hey, I really think you are. I've, you know, followed from afar as your career has kind of grown, expanded. Certainly learned a lot from how you grew the Hustle, applied a lot of that to how we grew the community here at Powder Keg. And I think in a lot of ways what you do is, is artistic.

Speaker B: I consider it that, but I've never had anyone else consider it that, so I'll take it.

Speaker C: Hey, uh, you're a great writer. You're, uh, you're a great thinker. And I think those are two really key things of being a great artist.

Speaker B: Good. Well, what's going on?

Speaker C: Well, hey, I'm excited to talk a little bit about your journey to, uh, a nice eight figure exit with HubSpot, but there are so many things that we could talk about. But I figured we could, at least for those who may be unfamiliar with your story, maybe understand a little bit about your roots and your background. I believe you were born in the Midwest, and I think I saw a quote online of you calling it the mid best, uh, as well.

Speaker B: That's funny. That sounds like something I would say. Yeah, I was born in St. Louis, Missouri. I'm most well known because I started this thing called the Hustle, which is a daily email that has over 2 million subscribers. I sold it a, uh, year and a half ago for, uh, let's just say many tens of millions of dollars. I don't love talking about the amount because I owned most of the company. It feels weird when people know your finances. I find it a little odd, but, uh, and then now I host our podcast, which is called My First Million and it's quite popular. One of the most popular business podcasts in the world, I think maybe 5 or 10th most popular. And at the Hustle, we owned all types of stuff. We owned this daily email that was a really big business. And we owned Trends, which is a paid subscription newsletter that was really big before the pandemic. We had Hustlecon, which was a conference that was quite large. And of course now it doesn't even exist because of the pandemic. But, uh, I started In Missouri, in St. Louis, Missouri. Went to St. Louis University High School. When I was 18, I left St. Louis and I moved to Nashville, Tennessee. When I was in Nashville, I started a hot dog stand, and I worked for the guy who was the main character or the main guy on American Pickers, and he kind of, like, taught me a little bit about entrepreneurship, and so that's why I started the hot dog stand. From there, I dropped out of school a little bit early, eventually finished, but I left school early and I moved out to San Francisco to join this company called Air Bed and Breakfast, which, uh, now it's called Airbnb. And then I started a company called, um, Bunk, which was like a roommate matching app, and sold that for a very small amount, and then started this company. And I've known for, like, starting media companies, but I've done a fair amount of things kind of in the background, like real, uh, estate investments and, uh, all types of weird stuff. I think it's weird, at least.

Speaker C: Growing up in St. Louis, did you find that you were exposed to other entrepreneurs or other artists?

Speaker B: Not in the sense. Not in the sense that we're talking. My father. My mother and father started a fruit stand, and that was their first business. And it kind of became a little bit bigger than that. And eventually my mother became a school teacher to support my father as he was kind of starting this business. And she also worked it at night, so she was kind of working two jobs. And then, um, she would get summers off and take care of us. But then my dad was always grinding and he started this thing called. It was called a fruit stand. Eventually it became far more successful. Uh, and they sold onions, basically, to, like, you buy a million dollars of onions from California and you sell it to Walmart for, like, $1.1 million, and you try to, like, make a little bit of profit on that. So we started a produce brokerage business. And it wasn't like, big in terms of Silicon Valley big, but in terms of St. Louis big. By the time I was in high school, it was definitely successful. Where he was. I'm sure he was earning a few hundred thousand dollars a year. So that. That was considered quite large for our family because we didn't have much money before that. And so I knew that sense of entrepreneurship where it was like, small business. I didn't know, like, when I originally got my job at Airbnb, my mom was like, what the heck? This sounds like a Ponzi scheme. You know what I mean? Like, like, they thought that, like, if you told them if we told my family that, like, Facebook had 5,000 employees at the time, they'd be like, why do you need 5,000 people to operate a webpage? You know what I mean? So, like, it wasn't like, in the sense that we know it, but it was in the, like, we were. I grew up around small business owners, for sure, restaurant owners, things like that.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know you've talked to hundreds of entrepreneurs now at this point, if not thousands. What were some of the things that you think you learned growing up in St. Louis, observing your mom and dad, how they are empowering, uh, each other as your dad grows this business, doing millions of dollars in onion sales, which I had no idea was, ah, the background story for you. What were some of those things you think you absorbed that maybe some other entrepreneurs don't have?

Speaker B: Well, so I moved out to San Francisco when I was young and I, When I got there, I had like, my wife went to an Ivy League school and I was like, what's the Ivy League? That sounds like some shit. I read about Harry Potter. So, like, I didn't know anything. I was like, totally, like, kind of a redneck and, and, and didn't know anything. And I, uh, got out to California and I met these people from, like, I remember, like, I went to Berkeley, the Berkeley campus, and I, like. And I went to Stanford's campus and I, like, took a selfie. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm on Stanford's campus. So, like, I met these people who I, like, had only read about this type of stuff. And what I noticed was immediately that the people that I was raised around were far more humble. They were definitely more like, just shut up and do the work. Don't talk about it. Talk less, work more. They were way less entitled. And these are generalizations, but, uh, and I don't think it's bad. Like, the people I was around in Silicon Valley, they were way more confident and they thought bigger sometimes. But, um, so like, it's pros and cons, but they were Missouri folks that are Midwestern folks were way kinder, way more humble and talked way less.

Speaker C: Yeah, that sounds like, uh, it could be a pro or a con, depending on how it's played.

Speaker B: It's both. Like, it's a, you know, what's a squeaky? A squeaky wheel is the one that gets, like, the attention. You know what I mean? So, like, the people who talk a lot definitely can get more value sometimes. But, yeah, pros and cons.

Speaker C: And how about Nashville? You're you're out in Nashville, first time living in a different city outside of St. Louis, I'm assuming.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Um, I went to Nashville cause I got a sports scholarship.

Speaker C: Ah.

Speaker B: For track and field. And uh, Nashville at the time was like up and coming. So I thought it would be a good place to kind of like meet other up and coming people and uh, kind of get like a mentor, things like that.

Speaker C: And, uh, from there, I think you dropped out of college to go move to San Francisco. Can you tell me that story? How did that come about and how did you make that decision? Was that a hard one?

Speaker B: No. So I had been making money on the Internet, selling stuff on ebay. I created an e comm store and it was making like $1,000 a day. And I was like, man, the Internet is so much better than selling hot dogs and working outside with my hands. Because, like, that's physically demanding. I can only make money when I'm there. And so I started researching and I had remembered hearing about this company called Air Bed and Breakfast. And I heard the story about it and I saw their marketing and design and I was like, man, this is so cool. This is so innovative. And I've also heard about Uber Cab. It was called Uber Cab back then. And so I cold emailed the founders of these companies and they were like, uh, yeah, come interview at Uber. Come interview. You're in the Bay Area, right? And I was like, yeah, I'm in the Bay Area. When I wasn't. I had never been west of like Colorado before. I didn't even know what the Bay Area meant. I thought San Francisco and LA were the same thing. And I was like, yeah, I'm there, I'll see you Monday. And I immediately fly out there and I get an interview at those companies and Airbnb, uh, they offered me a job, but they offered me a job. I accepted. And at the time, back in college, I had some demons in my life and I got in trouble with the law and I lied about it. And I had a misdemeanor. I got a dui.

Speaker C: Why?

Speaker B: I. I don't drink anymore and I don't party. I don't break the law anymore. But back then I had some demons and I lied about it on my resume. I basically said, no, I'd not been convicted of a crime. And they found out that I lied about it. And so when I was out there, I had been out there, I was about to start on a Monday, they called me on a Sunday, and they're like, dude, you Lied to us. We can't hire a liar. So I didn't get to start ever at that company. And so I was basically out there. I'm like, shoot, I don't have a lot of money. Like, what am I going to do? And so that's kind of, kind of how it started.

Speaker C: How do you think the rest of your career benefited from what I'm assuming was a pretty low low at the moment?

Speaker B: Dude, it was tragic. Like, you know, my mother and father were like, devastated for me. You know, they're like, I had obviously been in trouble and I thought I was getting my act together and then I was suffering the consequences still of some stupid mistakes. So, yeah, it was very low. How did it impact the rest of the career? I mean, I'm still friends with those people who fired me. They should have fired me. I was a liar. Um, but you know, Ryan Holiday has that book, the Obstacle is the way that was 100% true with my life. I was like, you know, this is just horrible. This is, this sucks. I gotta figure it out. And so when I was out there, I started. That's when I started my first business. And that's kind of like how I met a bunch of people that would help me start what became my more successful business. The Hustle.

Speaker C: Well, one of the things I appreciate about you is that, uh, one of those first businesses was events based. And that's how Powder Keg started. And we're at a virtual event right now. We started as an in person event. Watching the Hustle take off and grow at hustlecon, uh, was pretty, pretty exciting to see and grow. What was it like behind the scenes? How did that all come about?

Speaker B: So after I sold my first business, I basically had like 50 grand in my name. And I was like, all right, that's a good start. I gotta figure, uh, out what to do next though. And so I hosted this event called Hustlecon. And the idea was I was, I was not, I'm not technical. I was like, I'm gonna get a bunch of non technical founders to speak at this event, and in order to get speakers, I'm going to blog about it and create a newsletter. And I was like, best case, I break even and I meet someone who I could partner with and eventually start a company with. Worst case, I just lose a little bit of money and I learn a new business and have fun. So I created this event and we hosted it and like 400 people came and I made like 50 or 60 grand in profit. And I was like, oh, that's crazy. I did not expect that to happen. And I met all these amazing people, and I was like, you know what? Let's do it again. So we did it again, and it made, like, a quarter of a million in revenue, uh, or 200,000, something like that. And I was like, all right, this is pretty neat. I'm happy that I was able to get this traction. But conferences stink when it's your only source of income. Because it's very stressful. Everything comes down to the last two weeks. It's really, really, really hard. But if I was able to convince, like, $300,000 worth of people to fly in from around this world, uh, around the world and attend this event, maybe there's something here. And I was getting those people to come via content, and I was like, maybe I should go the content route instead. And so I learned everything I could about the media business just by reading books. And that's how we launched the Hustle, which ended up, you know, that could have. We sold a little. We sold kind of early, but that would have been. I mean, there was a very clear path to make nine figures a year in revenue.

Speaker C: It seems to me like those two skills, one you already talked about, which is cold emailing people, the other one being writing and writing well, seem to be two kind of superpowers of yours that you've put to use in a way that has influenced your career. Do you think there's anything that's made a bigger influence than those two particular skills?

Speaker B: Well, and I would say they're the same skills, but. And I would. Instead of writing, what I would say is figuring out what emotions motivate people and effectively communicating that to get people to do what I want them to do. So, like, uh, learning how to write to get someone to feel a certain way, learning how to write that makes someone want to come to your event. Learning how to write that makes someone want to reply to your email. Learning how to write so you can convince someone to buy something. Just like learning how to, like, get people to do stuff with words.

Speaker C: Could we dive, uh, into a use case? So I love your example of reaching out to Airbnb. Hey, Airbnb, Uber Cab, which it was called at the time. Two companies I might want to work at. I don't expect you to remember word for word, but if, Sam, we're writing that today, how would you construct that email in a way that you think would drive the most response?

Speaker B: Well, what I did back then was actually, like, pretty effective, I thought. But basically, around that time, there's this company that had just popped up called Rapportive. Do you remember Rapportive?

Speaker C: I totally remember Rapportive.

Speaker B: So when it came out, it was, like, breathtaking. Of course, now the technology is just like, uh, a commodity. Everyone has it. But basically what it allowed you to do was see the person who is emailing you, see all their social profiles. And I hacked it to where I made this Google spreadsheet. And you could type in someone's first name, someone's last name, and then the URL that you think their email would be. And it would create like 100 different permutations. So it'd be like S par at, uh, airbnb.com, samirbn.com, uh, spnb, uh.com. and then you could hack it by putting that into the sender part of the email, and you could highlight each one to figure out which the. Which email was real. And then I hacked it further where it said, like, it would autofill, like, where they worked. And anyway, it was kind of cool. And I cold emailed the CEO or someone like that, and I go, hey, you know, Airbnb is amazing, but I think you guys could get a lot more listings if you tried this strategy. Here's how it works. Uh, it does this, this and this. With using reporting, you could cold email, like, people to get them to list their stuff. I think that could be really effective and work. I've got no dog in the. I've got no dog in this fight, but I just love Airbnb. M. Maybe I'll even work there. But I think if you implement this strategy, you'll get more sales talk soon. Like, it was something like that, and I was just trying to give value and that, like, stuck out and I got a reply.

Speaker C: I love that story. I think that that seems like it paid dividends even though it didn't get the result you wanted in the medium term.

Speaker B: Well, it did get the result I wanted. I'm the one who blew it. But, yeah, it did get the result that I wanted. So it worked out. But, uh, yeah, that it would still work today. Like, cold emailing is one of those things that we're going to look at back, uh, in like, 50 years, and you're like, I can't believe it. If you could just guess someone's email, talk to anyone. I mean, I've, I've. You can email Jeff Bezos, and if you email him enough time, you might get a. You might get a reply. It's pretty wild.

Speaker C: I'M going to ask people to drop in the chat.

Speaker D: Who's.

Speaker C: Who's up for emailing Jeff Bezos enough time to see if they get a reply and see, uh, if anyone raised their hand.

Speaker B: You could definitely do it with a lot more people than you think, I'm sure.

Speaker C: Well, it seems like those skills, the humility, the, uh, ability to move people emotionally, and then also just the willingness

Speaker B: to go for it.

Speaker C: Move to Nashville, moved out to Silicon Valley. That's given you some momentum in your career, 100%. Tell me what you learned being in that culture of Silicon Valley.

Speaker B: I loved it. I still love it. You know, I tease San Francisco a lot, and I'm mad at San Francisco about some things, but in general, it was amazing. I remember meeting people my own age who were paying rent on their own, with their own business, like through their own business. And I was like, oh, my God, there's other weirdos like me who, like, can make, want to make money on their own versus getting a job or who want to, uh, create websites that provide value and make money. It was awesome. Um, I felt like I was finally among, like, my people because San Francisco, or at least back then, this was 2012, which isn't that long ago, but long enough that, like, startups weren't that common. Like, it was weird. I remember I had a. I used to make videos for YouTube and like, I was a freak. It was considered like, people are like, what are you doing, dude? This is kind of odd. And, uh, you know, it was like, remember, like, what online dating was, like, years ago? Like, if you said, like, you online dated, that's weird. I remember, like, being one of the first people to sign up for OkCupid. I was like, this is amazing. Uh, and so anyway, when I went to San Francisco, a few things stuck out. One, it was amazing to be around people that all loved the, the Internet and, like, try and believing it to be the future. Number two, I met so many people that were super, super ambitious and capable of getting it done. And so there's a bunch of my friends who we all met one another when we're 22. Some of them are billionaires now, and they're like my buddies. And I'm like, I'm like, man, dude, I knew you when you were not that. And you're not much smarter than me. You might be a little bit smarter in some cases, you might be a little dumber, but you pulled it off. And so, like, being around, it's kind of like in Jamaica, you have all these a Hundred meter dash runners that are all really good. It's like, I wonder if one of the reason why you guys are so good is because you just, you just grew up in a culture of sprinting excellence. And in San Francisco I was like, in a culture of business excellence. And that's what it felt like. And then number three, the average Joe in San Francisco was fairly open to new ideas. So like when before Uber there was a company called Sidecar and you'd pick people up and you sit on the front seat. That was like the thing you sit in the front seat with the driver. And I remember when that first came out, like people were willing to try all these new and weird things. And uh, I thought that was so cool that people were open to that. So those were probably the three things that stood out the most. And also, San Francisco is hard to live in, man. It's expensive, there's crime, it's hard. And I was like, if I can make it here, I can. You know, I'm, I'm the real deal. And so it was like a boot

Speaker C: camp trial by fire.

Speaker B: Yes, it was really hard to live in. And I remember like, like being, trying to be able to at the time. My rent back then was eleven hundred dollars a month. And that was like so much money to me. I was like, there's no way anyone can afford this. And so your, your standards change quick.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Do you think that that Silicon Valley culture, uh, last year Greg Eisenberg spoke at Unvalley and talked about the unbundling of Silicon Valley. Silicon. Silicon Valley is in the cloud now. Do you think online communities and even some of the things that you've built, like trends, has some of the same elements, or do you think there's something that is not replicable about Internet communities?

Speaker B: Yeah, Internet communities are the second best option and they're. And it's a really good option. Internet communities are great. You know, I've got a business partner, Joe Spizer, and we've, I've been business partners with them for like two or three years. And I consider my best friend. I've only met him three times. And so I think like you and like, you know, I've got a bunch of friends. Greg. I haven't been. I'm good friends with Greg. I'm good friends with this guy named Sahil Bloom. I have, I've never met them and I consider them great friends and I consider them to be very inspirational to my life. So, yeah, I think it's really, really, really, uh, effective. I do think that being in an. Like in San Francisco, when I was just starting my company, I had a shared office with a bunch of interesting entrepreneurs. You know, none of us could afford our own office, so we all pulled our money together. One of them was this guy who started a company called Native Deodorant, which he sold for in two years for $100 million in cash. And he bootstrapped it. Another guy has an E Comm brand that's doing like 2 or 300 million a year in revenue. Another one was Ryan Hoover, the guy who started Product Hunt. Like, we were all in this little office getting things going. Uh, same with Sean Puri, my co host. And there was something special, particularly when you're young and you have zero direction and you don't have many role models. Like a lot of people in San Francisco, I feel like we. We came as like kind of the outsiders. And then we came to San Francisco and we were part of this. We finally met other people like us. And you're, like, very impressionable and you like. I think there was something special about physically being in the same room with someone now as an adult, like, uh, a little bit more grown. I kind of know my values. I don't think it's as important, but it was very important.

Speaker C: Then what do you think are some of those. Those things that you got specifically? You mentioned some of these people. Was there a particular skill or perspective early on in those early days when you're getting the hustle off the ground? That was just a total paradigm shift, 100%.

Speaker B: So I used to host Hustlecon. And I remember there was one time where we were in a room at hustlecon. I used to lie to all the speakers and tell them the wrong time that they were gonna speak. And I would say, I would be like, yeah, you gotta be here at this time. And it was like two hours ahead of time. And like, the reason I would do that is just so I could hang out backstage with them. Uh, you know, they're. And so one time I was in a room with like, this woman who started class. Uh, Pass, you know, which is like a multibillion dollar company. Uh, the founders of WeWork, Miguel, the founder of Away Travel, Casey Neistat. Who else? It was like three other unicorns.

Speaker C: Powerhouse.

Speaker B: Yeah, just like the ballers of the ballers. Like, you know, like big deals. And I remember I didn't. I wouldn't talk. I would listen mostly. And they were all complaining about stuff that I complained about. And they were all nervous to go speak at my event and they were complaining about how they were too nervous about confrontation to fire people at their company or how they're stressed out and not sure how they're going to raise money or like they don't know if they're ever going to make money off their business. Like all this self doubt that I also face and when I, I, there was a huge paradigm shift one year when I was around the founder, those founders in that room that day and I remember thinking like, oh wait, these people are not different than me. Like they are not, they are not superhumans. I am no different than them. Maybe sometimes they're a little bit smarter. Maybe, maybe sometimes they're a lot smarter. Maybe sometimes they're but like uh, way dumber. But like in general we're all in the same field ballpark. They're just taking action. And so that was like my big takeaway. So now it kind of demystified success. You know my best friend, this guy named Jack Smith, sold his company for close to eight, uh, hundred million dollars in cash when he was 28. And like, I'm like Jack, you're like pretty good, but you're not like $800 million better than me. And I just, I've always thought about that and it demystified what's possible through one person.

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Speaker C: It does seem like a lot of media, especially tech media, seem to overemphasize the person's capabilities and the person's natural skill or some of their superpowers and don't usually talk about luck, market timing, some of the other things that obviously have a huge impact on big exits. Is that something that you think about in kind of retrospect and seeing all the entrepreneurs that you hosted on stage?

Speaker B: Yeah. So like before I quote, became successful, I was like, there's no such thing as luck. I'm going to make my own luck. Now, I definitely don't think that's. Luck is. Luck is real. Luck is very real. Like, it was lucky that I was born in America. It was lucky that I've been mostly healthy my whole life. It was lucky that I, uh, had emotionally supportive parents. So I believe in luck for sure. Yeah. That was a special time. I actually think that San Francisco is going to have a resurgence. I think that, uh, I think it's going to happen. And I think that because startups are more popular, I think you could also find your community in a lot of different cities. It just happened to be that there was more of it in San Francisco, so it was kind of fun.

Speaker C: Tell me more about that. Uh, what are you. What are you seeing yourself now? Being a relocation, uh, relocating out to Austin after being in San Francisco.

Speaker B: I'm in Austin now, so I live in Austin eight months out of the year. And then I live the rest of New York City because that's where my wife's from and she wants to be with her family. And Austin is way easier to live in. I would say it's more of a happy and fun place to live in. The grind. People don't grind here as much as, uh, other cities. So I think if you. I think Austin's ideal to raise a family. I think New York City is crushing it right now and is totally like. I remember when the pandemic hit, I was like, I don't think they're ever going to recover. And that was way wrong. So I think that, like, New York might be the place to be at the moment for young people who are trying to grind.

Speaker C: Talk to me about grinding. Obviously, uh, there have been lots of different phases of this over the last decade, uh, with grinding being something that it was, uh, heralded as. Like, the thing that separates the successful from the unsuccessful to grinding is the thing that separates, uh, the successful from the unsuccessful. The other direction to now, it seems like hopefully, uh, people have a more balanced view of it. What's your particular view on it?

Speaker B: My view is not that balanced. I think that in order, when you're going from 0 to 1, let's say like 0 to like 2 or 3, maybe 5 million in revenue, you do have to grind. I can't imagine. I think there are always exceptions to this. And there are some people who are just talented or lucky or something happened, and they're able to work 30 or 40 hours a week and make something amazing. But if you're a nobody, which I was, and you're just getting started and you have very little leverage. I can't imagine a world where you're going to succeed working less than 60 hours a week. Uh, you just have to put the time in and maybe that 60 hours a week can actually only take like 12 months. And then you're able to hire people and you're able to delegate. And when you are able to hire people that are really great and better than you at spending specific stuff and delegate, then yes, you can actually chill a little bit. Or if you already have some success or you already have like a well known name, or if you already have some money that you can like be like, hey, I'm just going to hire a person to run the company and I'm going to put in most of the money. If you already have that, then yeah, you can get away with kind of

Speaker C: chilling a little bit.

Speaker B: But I just can't. Not 100% of the people who grind are going to succeed, but nearly 100% of the people who succeed are willing to grind, I think.

Speaker C: What about people who are earlier in their career so not entrepreneurs. They want to just be a part of something special at a high growth tech company. Do you have any top pieces of advice from all the different startups that you've seen?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think that you got to make sure that you pick the right company because when you're joining an early stage startup, you're basically investing something more than money, which is more valuable than money, which is time. But you have to kind of act like you're investing money and so you're like, well, let's say, uh, you know, I'm getting $100,000 of equity in this company. If I had over $100,000 would I'd be willing to invest that into this business. And so if that's the case, you have to make sure a, that it's a good investment and you believe that the upside is like 10 or 20x given the risk. You also have to make sure that your paperwork is all straight and like good and like you're, you're getting paid the right, like in the cap table, it's structured nicely so you have to make sure all of those things. And then once you have that, uh, and so you've like made an educated guess that this is a good bet to take and all your ducks in a row, like all paperwork's done right and signed. I think that you should grind and do something amazing. And I don't think that you should work necessarily like 80 hours a week on that one company, but I Think you should work a lot and then also network like crazy. So, like, when I sold my business to a company called Apartmentless, I was an employee there for a year in, uh, about a year, and I was hosting meetups, like, every single week. And that's how I built this network. So when I was able to launch my thing, I just made a couple phone calls and I had help. So you want to, like, you know, it's called putting the hay in the barn. You want to train, train, train. Put that hay in the barn for when you need it. You know, train hard, win easy. And so you're just preparing, preparing, preparing. And oftentimes you don't know what you're preparing for, but you do know when you. When you need a favor or you've been putting in the work. So you're owed one by a lot of different people. So I think that's the way to go. If you are young, you don't have a lot of responsibility, like, you don't have a family. I see no reason why you shouldn't be doing that.

Speaker C: Put hay in the barn. Your Midwest metaphors are going to go a long way here, Sam. Keep them coming, man. Uh, you're kind of focused there on hustle. Get it done early, contribute value. Um, I think has been resonated by a lot of the other speakers.

Speaker B: Getting it done early, by the way, is a really big deal, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah. Tell me more about that, man.

Speaker B: Like, I'm. I'm. I'm 32, so I'm not just out of school, but I'm still young enough. But I. I have a little bit of wisdom, I hope. And at, uh, 21, I was kind of stupid in a good way. Like, I was ignorant. I didn't know, like, the pain that I was about to go into. And I was stupid enough to think I was good enough, and I had a ton of energy. I only spent two or three thousand dollars a month, like, from all my living expenses. No family. Sometimes I had a girlfriend. Like, it was awesome. So, like, if you put in that work, then it's actually the easiest time to put in work. And it pays dividends. Like, if you do it correctly, you should be compounding, and it'll pay dividends by the time you're in your 30s and 40s. And that's the time when you want the time and you want the leverage and things like that. And not enough people take risks early on. I remember when I started my company, I was so jealous that my friend got a job at Pricewaterhousecooper or one of the accounting firms. It was making $60,000 a year. I was like, God damn, they're rich. Like, uh, what am I doing? I'm in this basement building this website. What the heck am I doing? And I was like, just have patience. It'll pay off if you, if you. If it will pay off. And then five years later, when I start making a lot of money and it starts working and I'm, uh, my own boss, they all come to me and they're jealous, and I'm like, dude, it was the other way around. For the longest time, I was jealous of you. But thankfully, I wouldn't say. And I was in a situation where I was forced to do it. Like, I didn't have many options. I was kind of not employable, so I had to do it. But you need to have patience and you need to take risks early on and just be willing to know that the first 10 years of your career, if you could take those big risks early on, it'll pay dividends and you're not going to lose out on much.

Speaker C: Seems like as you're kind of, um, piling hay, uh, now I'm missing the metaphor. Uh, but as you're stacking hay, you're almost creating this density of resources for yourself in your own personal career.

Speaker B: 100%.

Speaker C: And we talk about that a lot in the End Valley, Obviously, geographically, cities like Nashville, Indianapolis don't have as much geographic density of venture capital, of talent, of customers willing to buy from startups. Now with the Internet, we can do that all virtually. When you kind of look back at your early days at the Hustle, how did you create that early density? We talk about the thousand true fans. Kevin Kelly, you know, early days of Wired, wrote the blog post, thousand true fans. If you can get your first thousand true fans, that will buy anything from you, no matter what. You know, share something from you, subscribe for something. Um, what were some of those things that tipped you over the edge in the early days of the Hustle?

Speaker B: So the biggest thing was that I was always doing stuff and I would tell people about it. I was fairly loud about it. And I would say, I just quit my job. I'm starting this thing called hustlecon, and it's going to be amazing, I think. And I would be like, all right, boom. We just hit, you know, 100 tickets sold. This is amazing. This is going awesome. Or I would just take a picture of me, like, making cold calls today, trying to figure this out. And my enthusiasm was contagious. And people started living vicariously through me. And a good analogy is like, if you see someone on the side of the road holding their thumb up because their car's broken down, you may not stop. But if you see someone on the side of the road pushing their own car to like, go get gas, and you're likely to get out and help them. And what I learned early on was that people, both particularly successful people, but most anyone, they love seeing someone put the effort in and work. And if they see you willing to do that, they're going to help you out. And so I would cold email, like, the founder of Business Insider. His name was Kevin Ryan. He's probably a billionaire. He started Gilt, MongoDB, Business Insider, and a bunch of other companies. He's like running for mayor of New York, uh, is the rumor. And I would cold email him and he wouldn't reply forever. And I would be like, hey, Kevin, I'm a big fan of yours. In this interview that you gave in 2014, you said the struggle of Business center was X, Y and Z. I just started my media company. I think I'm facing that same problem. How did you overcome it? And he didn't reply. And I would email him a month later, hey, Kevin. Um, so I actually solved the problem. Here's what I did anyway. Our current, our current traction is this, this and this. Just giving you an update. Talk soon. And I would keep that up literally for 6 or 12m months. And then finally he would reply and he would get me on the phone and he would help me. And I would do that with all types of people. Like big successful people, not successful people. I would find the early employees of all the companies that I wanted to emulate. I would find all of them and I would like, send emails just like that to all types of people. And what I found out was that people, people don't always take action. And that makes them love someone like me or someone who is starting companies because they saw that I was action oriented and it inspired them and made them want to help me.

Speaker C: That's a really good insight. That's a really good insight. Uh, thinking back, I remember seeing your hustle and being like, man, I can't attend this, but I just want to buy a ticket, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, like, they want to be part of it.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. When trends launch, I'm like, I don't have time to read this right now, but I want to support it. So I'm going to buy a subscription.

Speaker B: Yeah. And the reason why is people just Saw that I was trying stuff. And even if it wasn't a success, most people are, um, afraid to try something, and they see me and they're like, well, you're not that smart. You talk kind of crudely like, you're not better than I am. If you can do it, I can do it. And because you kind of gave me that little bit of inspiration, I'll support you. Well.

Speaker C: And you sold your company. Tell me a little bit about that. Was that always a goal of yours to sell a company?

Speaker B: My goal when I was 20 was to make at least $20 million by the age of 30, because I was, like, in my head. $20 million will give me enough money that my family can live lavishly, somewhat lavishly. Depends on, I guess, who you're asking and, like, be secured. And the reason why is. I remember as a kid, my mom swiped her debit card and, like, bought me $2,000 worth of braces as a kid. And she didn't have a lot of money at the time. You know, they probably only had 10 grand in their bank account. And I was like, that's so amazing that they were to do that. And yet I feel so guilty, and, like, I don't. I'm, like, scared of running out of resources for my family. So I set that age at 20. And so when I built my company, I definitely built it to sell. I, like, I had a sale in mind. I had a number in mind. It was all built around that number. And looking back, I'm happy I did it, but I wish that the company, the Hustle, is an amazing company. I wish that. And I love the brand. The Hustle was my life. It is my life. It's not. It's art to me. Uh, it's got a sold to me. So I wish that I was already wealthy enough that I didn't have to sell it. That's for sure.

Speaker C: Yeah. Keep that ownership and keep the playground where you can keep creating.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm happy about the decision that I made, but I only made it because I had set this goal, and, like, I knew what it was like to be poor, and I didn't want my family to experience that. But I, uh, sure wish, you know, the circumstances were slightly different.

Speaker C: Tell me about the emotions you felt in the days following signing the paperwork.

Speaker D: Dude.

Speaker B: Immediately after, it kind of felt like I had bad eyesight, and I had just put glasses on for the first time. I was like, is this how people live? Like, you, like, m. For years? Well, for, like, 10 years, because I Had all other types of businesses. I'd always worried about payroll and I'd always worried about like, oh man, Ben said he's having a kid. Like, one of my employees is having a kid. It kind of feels like I'm having a kid because, like, the decisions I make are gonna like, help support this, chill this child. Like tons of stresses like that. Or like, oh, man, I just got a slack message that says like, we need to talk. Uh, like, oh, they're quitting. God darn it. Like, I remember like, I was fight or flight mode all the time. And then when I sold, I was like, oh my God, like, I don't own the business anymore, so I'm not, I'm not responsible anymore of anything. Like, I have zero responsibility. And that was amazing. I felt so good. Uh, the first 12 months, it was like heaven. And I was like, this is, this is the way to live. And then the last six months that I've been in, I'm like, all right. What I learned is like, people, I don't know if it's like a man thing. It's probably not. But like, I was like, from a man's perspective, I was like, I need a mission. Like, I need a task. I need to go. I, I need like, I need like a car to chase. Like I'm a dog. You know what I mean? I was like, I, I gotta, I gotta go hunting. I can't just sit and, and, and chill. Like, I have to work. And so that's, uh, kind of been my feelings now where I was like, all right, I got what I wanted. Turns out when you get what you want, you're just going to end up doing what you did before.

Speaker C: It's the hero's journey. You were on a quest, man.

Speaker B: I was on a quest. And now I'm like, oh, well, like, work is not like, it's not like, uh, it's something that you have to do in the sense of, uh, like, like, like everyone's like, we're in. It's like a. Not imposed by the outside so much, where it's like, it's more self imposed to. Where it's like you're just like ingrained as a human being to contribute and to improve constantly. And I didn't realize that until recently.

Speaker C: If you, uh, could teleport yourself back in time, Sam knowledge now back 10 years to SAM knowledge, then 21 years old or 20, whatever years old in San Francisco, is there anything you would have done differently?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I, I gave a little bit of equity to people. And I took a little bit of angel money. And when you do that, you basically are obligated, you're a fiduciary. So it's my duty to provide a return. And I wish I was able to run the company more selfishly than I had. Where it's like, no, like, we're going to own this for 50 plus years. We're going to give it to our children. I wish it was like that. I couldn't pull that off because I didn't have enough money to pay people what they were truly worth. So I had to give equity. But I wish I probably could have figured out a way how to do that to pull that off. And so I wish I would have owned 100. I owned M the vast majority, but I Wish I owned 100%. So I didn't have any like, obligation or whether both, uh, ethically and legally to like provide a return for people. And I could have just grown it for a longer period of time without giving any employees the expectation of a sale. Of a sale. So that's definitely a thing that I wish I would have done. But I'm happy with my decisions. I do think though that like, next time I start something, I'm going to have a far longer time horizon because, like the real gains of our company, we sold them. We were four and a half years old. The real gains wouldn't have started until like around. We would have done like north of 40 million in revenue this year. And. And that was when the real gains started happening. And I didn't realize that I was not being patient. Like, the real gains start like maybe past year five. For sure. Five is pretty early. But like 7, 8, 9, 10, like that's like when it feels like stuck start stuff starts working out really well.

Speaker C: That, that makes a ton of sense.

Speaker B: And dude, it's so it's so hard to start something. So if you have something that's working, only sell it if you really have to.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. That's good advice. I, I really like that a lot. But you might not have, you know, fat fire right now if you had soul and taken it off the table. So.

Speaker B: Which is why I'm not complaining. I'm happy I did it. But there's a phrase rich people sell. Wealthy people never sell.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So yeah, you if, if you have something that's working now that I know. Like when I had the hustle, we were growing like 2x every year, which is good. It's not great, but it's really good. And I was like, but, uh, you know, we're not growing 3 or 4x. It's not world class. Therefore, like, it's no big deal. I can just restart this at any given point. Now that I am starting from zero, I don't have any employees helping me. I don't have a lot of. I have an audience already, which is good. And I got some money, but it's still kind of from scratch. I'm learning, man. Getting stuff off the ground to grow 2 or 3x a year is really, really, really hard and really rare. It's challenge. It's a really big challenge.

Speaker C: Well, I love following along what, uh, you're building with your Airbnb business. Can you tell me, uh, why you decided to go in that direction?

Speaker B: I've always wanted to open up a hotel and my wife works at Airbnb and I met a couple guys that I have like 20, 30, $40 million worth of Airbnbs and they're paying themselves a lot of money. And I was like, dude, that's so cool. I love working with my hands. I love getting dirty. And so I bought this ranch called Marathon ranch. Go to marathonranch.com you can see it and. Or is it.com or.co? i think.com and it's awesome. So I bought this ranch and uh, I'm building some. It has, ah, a really nice house on there and I'm building cabins because it just feels so good to get out. And the Internet's great because you can start something from nothing really easily, but you don't physically get to see your thing and you won't get to touch it and you don't necessarily get to enjoy it with like your family and friends. And so I wanted to do this Airbnb business because it felt really good to work with my hands and to sweat and to like, see like, what's happening. It felt good to like, we have a house cleaner who's like, you know, not, she's not like in the, in the socioeconomic, uh, status of like a tech worker. And it's like, good. It feels nice to like, employ different types of people and to create opportunities for different type of people. And like, the people attending my Airbnb are going like, they're not like, you know, wealthy tech people necessarily. It's like they're just normal families. And it feels good to create a product that like, helps service, helps serve normal, quote, normal people and like, provide jobs for normal people. And it feels awesome. And it's fun to get out of your bubble. So that's one of the reasons why I love it.

Speaker C: I love that too. It seems to me just hearing your story, knowing, uh, your skill set in writing, moving people emotionally, what you're doing now at the Airbnb business, it seems a lot of what your career has been about and your work as an artist is about creating shared experiences.

Speaker B: I guess so, yeah. Uh, you're being my therapist, so thank you. I've never thought about that.

Speaker C: If you could wish one experience on everybody in the world to have one experience, what's one of the experiences you would wish upon people that they could all have?

Speaker B: I think making $1 on the Internet is like, world changing. You know, I encouraged my wife to do it recently and she did it and she was like, okay, I understand. Like, uh, so just making one sale on the Internet is pretty amazing. The second thing that like, is a pretty world changing experience is cold outreach to someone who you admire and making. Becoming friends with them, that's like, pretty amazing. And one experience, no, I mean, those are pretty good. Maybe like the fear of, like, quitting your job and having nothing and slowly figuring it out. Once you do that, I feel like nothing can stop me. And maybe one last thing. I like to box. I box a lot.

Speaker C: Tell me about that.

Speaker B: Every once in a while, I'll get beat up. I got beat up pretty bad the other day. This young guy, his name's v, he was 21. He cleaned my clock, he kicked my ass. And, uh, how did you. I didn't. Well, I didn't get knocked out, but, like, he beat me up and I didn't feel embarrassed because I worked hard and he was just better than me, whatever. But after getting beat up, I was like, that wasn't so bad, was it? I feel pretty good. Nothing could stop me. Like, I just got. I just got physically assaulted and I'm perfectly fine. Like, there's nothing to fear. And so finding those times where you can be in like a relative, like, like when you're boxing, when you're sparring with your partner, like, you're not trying to knock someone out, but they'll punch you really hard in the body and they'll hurt. And so it's a pretty controlled environment, but it's very fearful and very scary. And once you realize that you're able to overcome things like that controlled environment, it kind of feels like the rest of the world is like, the volume is turned down. And so I love experiences like that. And so if you can Ever find a way where you maybe won't really actually get hurt? Or maybe in some cases you might, but you're able to survive it and walk away? It dials everything else down and makes business go on easy mode.

Speaker C: I sure hope Chris Rock is having a similar experience right now with his recent assault.

Speaker B: Oh, man, that guy's. He's going to crush it. He's going to make. He'll make $50 million from this. I would totally go watch his comedy now, uh, just because of that, but absolutely. I think if you could, like, put yourself, like, every once in a while, I'll go take, uh, a race car. Like, I've taken, like, three different race car classes, and, like, when I do that, I'm like, oh, my God, this is so fast. Like, it. Like, I'll drive with the driver and sit in the passenger seat, and he's like, you know, you have a little near death, and you're like, oh, my God. Everything else is just calm. And so, like, having any of those adrenaline experiences, I think are actually really good for life and business.

Speaker C: We got to get you out here to the, uh, Indy 500 track and put you in an IndyCar sometime.

Speaker B: Dude, I'm down. I would love that. It's very frightening. I've done it, uh, things like that a couple times.

Speaker C: It's.

Speaker B: People are mad men.

Speaker C: Indianapolis is an email town, too, so I feel like you'd like it for those reasons, too.

Speaker B: I'm down. I'm in.

Speaker C: What's one way the unvaly community can help support you and what you're passionate about right now as an artist?

Speaker B: Uh, a few things. So, um, I have our podcast. It's called My First Million. It's, uh, pretty good, I think. My.

Speaker C: It's fantastic.

Speaker B: My co host, Sean, kind of carries the loads, and he's very, very talented. I also have a thing that I've been tinkering with called Copy that. So copywriting, uh, has changed my life, so I created a way to help people learn. So if you go to try copy that.com, that's like, a fun resource to learn how to write better.

Speaker C: I'm on day four today. I can.

Speaker B: How is it?

Speaker C: It's fantastic. I freaking love it. I have not done my assignment today, but I did them Monday. Um, Tuesday, Wednesday.

Speaker B: If you learn when you write it up by hand, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: 100% magical. It's a magical way to learn because it requires very little effort. You know, you just, like, you don't have to think. You just write, and it makes You. It makes you better. So that's really good. And then, uh, you can follow me on Instagram or Twitter. The same par. But, dude, I'm happy you're like. And copy that. So it's improving your writing.

Speaker C: Absolutely. I have studied copywriting through the years. I'm so rusty, and I needed just that push over the edge and copy that. So digestible, you know? Seven. I think it's seven days, right? Ten days. Seven days. Ten days.

Speaker B: Monday to Friday. Monday to Friday. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. I'm like, I can do that. You know, That's.

Speaker B: So you, uh, you did Louis ck. You did the Boron letters. I made the. That one, the hard one, early on. And then what else did you do?

Speaker C: The Joel. Joel on software.

Speaker B: He's great, right? He's a beautiful writer.

Speaker C: So good. I had no idea. Like, I know him from, you know, all of his stuff that he's done, like stack overflow, but I just. I didn't know he was such a great writer.

Speaker B: He's really good. So anyway, that's what Copy that is. It's, uh, learning how to write better. I'm happy that it's working.

Speaker C: Yeah. We linked it up in the virtual. Virtual booth. So we got a virtual booth for it in the Expo. So people that are at Unvalley right now, uh, right after this session, you can go check it out. It's really easy to find. Um, we're gifting a few of the scholarships, uh, to a few people, too, so make sure you sign up for that.

Speaker B: Oh, sick. Thank you.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. 100%, man. Thanks for sharing your story here and, um, thanks for doing everything that you're doing and sharing along the way.

Speaker B: I'm trying. Thank you for having me.

Speaker C: Now you're doing it, man. Absolutely.

Speaker A: That's it for today's show. Thanks so much for listening. And a huge thanks to Sam Parr for sharing his story and. And insights with the Unvalley community. If you're looking to get away, be sure to check out Sam's stunning airbnb@marathonranch.com. i also highly recommend the copywriting course that Sam created with his wife. It's called Copy that, and it's one of the best investments you can make in yourself. I've taken it myself. I'm taking it now for the second time now that it's a new year, because it's that good. So check it out at, uh, try copy that.com again. That's try copythat.com. we'll link it all up in the show.

Speaker C: Notes.

Speaker A: But Sam also co hosts a great podcast named My First Million with incredible guests like Dharmesh Shah, Rob Dyrdek and Gary Vaynerchuk who happen to be featured on episode one of, uh, Unvally. So shout out to Gary for links to the social profiles and the websites and resources and the people and companies and all of the other things mentioned this episode. Head on over to powder keg.com check out our show notes for this episode and get further plugged into these awesome opportunities beyond the Bay Area thanks for tuning in to Unvally, the show for leaders who want to unlock their full potential and plug into the biggest opportunities in tech and startups beyond Silicon Valley. Unvally is brought to you by Powder Keg, which is the only private member network focused on Silicon Valley supporting tech companies and leaders in fast growing communities beyond the Bay Area. To get the latest Unvalley news, trends and guides, subscribe to the Unvaly newsletter from powder keg@powderkeg.com newsletter. It's 100% free and plugs you into the hottest tech companies, startup opportunities and jobs beyond Silicon Valley. Subscribe today@powderkeg.com Newsletter and to be the first to hear the stories about entrepreneurs, investors and other tech leaders outside of Silicon Valley. Subscribe to Unvally Wherever you listen to podcasts@powderkeg.com unvally we included a bunch of helpful links there so you can subscribe wherever you listen. And if you're already subscribed to Unvally, thank you. If you like what you've heard, I would love to hear from you. I'd also love to hear from you even if you don't like what you've heard. Uh, shoot me a Note@mattowderkeg ah.com we're always trying to make this podcast better for you, but if you're feeling great about what you're hearing and you want to hear more of it, I would love it if you could leave us a review for Unvally. You'll have a chance to get a shout out on the show, some VIP perks, and maybe even participate in an upcoming interview. Until then, we'll catch you next time on Unvalley, a Powder Keg Original Production.

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