Tito Bohrt on building a world-class sales development org

Speaker A: Scripts or frameworks or talk tracks. What's your preference? Because a lot of the salespeople that we train, and especially the managers, they're either very, very. For scripts or talk tracks, some of them will not look at those and they want frameworks instead. And I think all of that is relevant. But what I see so little of when it comes to training and coaching reps, especially when it comes to Outbound, and the whole sales development function is really frameworks, like true frameworks, thinking principles that allow a rep to work in an autonomous way that allows them to really be creative. Right. And work within bumper guards, so to speak, but be able to really use their own style, have their personality, all of that good stuff that I feel is so necessary to make Outbound really work. And that's what we're going to talk about with today's guest, who I will introduce here in a minute. We're going to talk all about frameworks. He's literally built hundreds of sales development teams. He's one of the few folks that I would personally look to in this space on how to build a sales team from scratch, a sales development team rather from scratch. And he's done it for some really awesome companies. So before we get to that, my name is Jason Bay, I'm CEO at Outbound Squad. You're listening to the Outbound Squad podcast. We are all about helping you turn complete strangers into paying customers. We uh, work with a lot of great companies like Shopify, Zoom, Rippling Gong and the thing that we help with is pipegen. So our average client within 90 days of working with us increases pipeline, qualified pipeline by more than 20%. So that's getting their AES to self source more pipeline through outbound, developing their BDR and SDR teams to be more strategic, move up market, et cetera, working with their account managers to build more pipeline within customer accounts. So if that's something you're focused on, you're definitely in the right place. Our guest today is Tito Born. He is CEO of Altisales Caddy and he also uh, does a lot of investment, uh, investing as well. So this dude is extremely framework driven. So one of the things we talk about is a four part framework that he uses to really build systems and diagnose problems. It's behavior systems, messaging and skills in that specific order. We talk about cold calling. You know, one of the things I love. You know we do some really great stuff here at Outbound Squad, but most of the work that we do is helping clients. We don't do the Outbound for them. They do the outbound for all of their clients. So we talk about cold calling, pickup rates, iOS screeners, voicemails. He's got some hot takes on dialers. Will the SDR function be replaced? Uh, we talk about data and root cause analysis and how do you figure out what's really going wrong in the org? Uh, this is a really great one. So before we get to it, I got two things that I want to offer to you. One is our Outbound masterclass. It's three hours of our very best content for free. You can grab it@outboundsquad.com masterclass it's got everything in there from, uh, messaging offers, cold calling, cold email, like everything that's working right now to book pipeline through Outbound, go make sure to check it out. Outboundsquad.com masterclass the second thing I want to offer you is if you're listening to this episode or have been a listener for a while and you're like, you know, I really need my team to implement this stuff. We're going outbound for the first time or something's not working with our Outbound motion. We need to reduce reliance on marketing. Let's say just send me an email. It's something that we help a lot of great companies with that I've mentioned already. We do work with a lot of startups folks building out their first sales teams as well. And if you're looking to increase qualified pipeline sales sourced pipeline, shoot me an email. Jasonoutboundsquad.com let's get to the interview with Tito. So before we chop it up and get like into the weeds on Outbound and AI, all the stuff that we were talking about before we hit record, I would love for you to give some quick context on like, I feel like you have such a unique vantage point, um, in that like if you take someone like us for example, at Outbound Squad, you know, we're really doing consulting and coaching and training and we're not doing Outbound on behalf of the customer. Right. So we're a layer removed. We're as close as you can get without actually doing it for them. Um, and the way that, I mean you have multiple businesses, but specifically at ALTI Sales, I mean like you're in this unique vantage point in that you are seeing the inside of these customers, businesses, but you are also doing it right now too, and you're doing that across a wide variety of different customers and thousands, tens of thousands of data points happening, likely on a weekly basis. So I've always really valued your input on this because it's like you're doing the thing, um, but you want to give a little context just for those listening. What, you guys do that sort of stuff before we dig in.

Speaker B: Yeah. So thanks for having me, Jason. Pleasure to be here. I'm, um, Taboord. I'm, um, the CEO at three companies. Two of them people know about, one people don't know about. But I run three companies. One is called Alti Sales. It's a sales, development, consulting and outsourcing company. One of them is called Caddy. It's a software solution to help SDR leaders and AE leaders manage their teams better. And, uh, I run a company called Alti Ventures, which is a venture capital fund that invests in early stage companies that need, uh, help running go to market. And um, we invest in them when they have hired Alti Sales to help and build go to market. What is incredibly interesting about what you say is I, I started for a period of time, this is 10 years ago, plus trying to do a little bit of consulting, and I would get hired to write a cold calling script. And Jason, I don't know how you do it, because I hated that world. I would write a cold calling script, I would give it to my customer and be like, here you go. This is it. This is what you got to try. And then they would come back and say, it's not working. And I'll go, and I'll be like, what do you mean? I'm m. Like, dude, I'll give you a couple extra hours. Let me go listen to some calls. I'm like, the tonality was wrong, the execution was wrong. People weren't actually following anything I was telling them, like, yeah, I promise the script works. It's just like, people are not executing correctly. But I felt like I was accidentally, you know, just completely overcharging the customer. I, I could charge $20,000 for a cold calling script. And I was not seeing the impact. So my, my business is grown out of that initial frustration where I go tell the customer, here's what I'm going to do. I have a very trusted SDR that can go execute the cold calling script. And by the way, I have a good theory of what should work, but I don't think I'm going to get the best version of the script just by spending a lot of hours, you know, sitting in my office cranking at reading your content or writing something that works. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm Going to build a call calling script. I'm m going to grab my SDR M, I'm going to give him 500 leads. He's going to be calling for a month. We're going to hear every objection, everything that's going wrong. But he's really good at like the tone and the pace and understands the industry. And then as I get objections I want to iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate. I'm going to be changing the script. So the instruction to the rep was either you follow the script or the script follows you. But I need perfect match meaning you can experiment, you can test different things but what starts working we need to start editing and eventually we got to the point in a very data driven way where like three, six months later I had these script and it would convert from a connect to meeting at a high rate. And high rate varies by industry. Like I've seen places where it's like 30% connect to meeting another places where it's like 7, 8, 9, 10% is considered excellent. But um, that's where I come from and I've always used a lot of data to analyze what's going on and um, how do we adjust like little elements to build like the perfect playbook.

Speaker A: Yeah, you are in like the hardest type of business I feel like in this area. This is like because we started doing, you know, we were an appointment setting firm prior to getting into to training and we would, this is like in 2016, 17, 18 where you could just get away with building an email sequence and uh, you know, sending some LinkedIn messages. We booked a shit ton of meetings for people and then it just stopped working like really quickly and they were like hey, let's, let's teach organizations a lot of this stuff, especially the cold calling. Right? Um, so let's talk about cold calling because you see the shit online that's cold calling is dead. But right now when you look at the data you're like, oh God, what is the future of this channel? Where is this going? It's like the pickup rate goes down and down and down. Every year fewer people are picking up. I don't know about you, I never pick up calls from unknown numbers. I have the AI screener on, on my iPhone and God, I want to say 80% of the of America is on the do not call list. Which I know doesn't like directly apply necessarily with like what we do in B2B but a lot of companies are not calling people on the DNC list and people are opting out of being in zoom info. I mean, like, what, what are you seeing with cold calling right now? And what do you think the future of this, of this channel is? And, like, the viability of it and how it's going to change and shift and all of that kind of stuff?

Speaker B: My connect rate in 2026 is the highest since 2019.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Which might surprise a lot of people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The way that I got there is by a series of iterations of, like, how we operate as well. Um, I am constantly checking on a per Persona basis, per time zone basis, what's the best time to call? That doesn't surprise a lot of people. The next thing I check is I check every state. So if I'm calling into Kentucky, am I better off calling from other Kentucky numbers or from out of state? If it's out of state, what state should I call from? Then we rotate the numbers and we pass the, um, area code that we want to call from. So. So if I'm calling into Chicago, but I'm calling into finance people, guess what? Local dial doesn't work. But if you call from a New York number, they pick up at a higher rate. And I know at what times of the day they tend to pick up. Yeah. So there's a lot of tricks. There's also caller id and, um, there's a lot of ways that you can implement caller id. There's a free call registry and whatever. Make sure your numbers don't show as spam. But we use person plus company caller id, so technology, very hard to implement. Not a lot of people have it. You gotta jump a lot of hoops to get it approved. Um, but when I call anybody in the United states that has AT&T Verizon or T Mobile or any subsidiary thereof, it's about 92% of phone numbers on about 99% of phone numbers assigned to executives at Fortune 500 companies. Whenever I call them, it shows Titobort on their phone. Yeah, it looks different, it feels different. And what that will do is get people to go look at my LinkedIn profile, find my name on their email address. Um, we're leaving voicemails at an interesting clip. About 12% of the time, we know exactly how to leave voicemails. We also never parallel dial. Parallel dialing is killing you, Especially if you're doing, uh, if you're gonna talk to a lot of executives that are having the call screeners you're gonna get, you're not gonna be given the opportunity to talk to the call screener. You're just Gonna skip it. And therefore your connector is really low. But we power dial so one number at a time. And then we talk to all those call screeners. We're getting through like at a such a high clip. It's insane. Like we don't. The call screeners are not no longer stopping us. And it's because like we've, the first hundred times we go into call screeners, we probably got through like three times. But then the next hundred, somebody started figuring a couple of things out. And then we got out 11 times. And uh, then we realized if you call the same call screener a couple of days apart on the first time you left a voicemail, there's other things you can say to then get through at a higher clip. We're getting through 80% of the call screeners. And the beautiful part now is like everybody who has a call screener, anybody parallel dialing them has no chance of talking to them. But because we know how to get through for those people, their phone never rings. It only rings when we call. Our connect rate is up to 6%. It's insane. You just need to have a passion for figuring things out, Jason. That's what makes the difference between a great, a great human and a great operator. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: In any discipline.

Speaker A: Yeah. Did you just give us a frickin masterclass? And pickup rates, it's like the pickup rate piece is interesting because it's like it's the very top of the funnel that you have to optimize for. It's like you cannot book a meeting with a prospect who doesn't pick up the phone. You know, that's not, that's just not going to happen. So you're seeing 6% plus pickup rates across the board. Average that I've seen in organizations, especially ones using a dialer I've seen as low as like 1, uh,.1% pickup Ah, rates. Um, it is like. And you think about the difference between that. It's like one versus six. What's like six times the conversations. Yes.

Speaker B: And I'm going to give you the framework because we've again, we built so many SDR teams that many of my customers have internal SDR teams. So like only 20% of my clients hire me to build a team from scratch. About 40% of my clients or 50% of my clients have somewhere between 1 and like 6 SDRs. So small teams that are still trying to figure it out and they're not cracking the nut. So they hire us and then I have the rest. The other 30% have big SDR teams. But, uh, I, uh, built a framework for inspection of my SDR SDR team. What's holding us back? And it's as follows. It says behaviors, systems, messaging skills, and it's a step by step process. I've seen so many people, Jason, that go train their SDRs on skills. And what they realize is hurting them is they're like, we need better objection handling. You know what's actually happening. The messaging is so bad. They get that. They get objections that they can't handle. And I'm like, you're doing it wrong. You don't need to objection handle. You need to pre handle the objection. You need to reposition. You need to rethink your pitch. If you change your messaging, your objections will change. Therefore, don't spend so much time objection handling. Change the messaging. And then everybody's like, um, oh my God. And I'm like, wait, wait. So you're gonna go do messaging right now? Right? Right. Let's go run at it. They're like, yeah. I'm like, no, wrong. They're like, what? I'm like, your messaging is useless unless your system right. Who cares to have great messaging if your connect rate is under 3%? Who cares to have great emails if your emails don't land in the inbox? I'm like, before you go work on messaging, messaging is useless unless you go fix on your systems, get your connect rate up, get your email deliverability rate. And they're like, oh my God. I'm like, okay, wait a second. What are you going to go do? I'm going to go work on my. No. You know why? You can have the best systems and then you can go get the best messaging and then you can go get the best abstraction handling and you can still be absolutely dead in the water with zero results. Like, I don't understand. What do you mean? I'm like, what precedes systems behaviors? I'm like, how many of you SDRs have logged like a fake call? What's your average time to reply? Like? You send a sequence, email, a prospect replies back. How long is it taking you to reply back to that prospect on a per rep basis? On a per sequence basis, on, uh, a per hour of the day basis, during business hours versus off business hours. Get Claude, start pinging it, ask it all these questions and you know what we see? I have SDRs from customers. They take more than 72 hours to reply back to a prospect who replied to a sequence. Like, automated sequence goes out, prospect replies back, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah. And the SCR replies back to the prospect. But it took him more than 72 hours. I'm like, dumbfounded. I'm like, what are these people doing all day?

Speaker A: What?

Speaker B: The manager says, we.

Speaker A: We.

Speaker B: They work remote. I don't know. They're not in the office. They're, um, fake dials. There's people logging costs that they're not making. There's people who are on parallel dials. You're gonna make 150 a day. Guess how long it takes them. 27 minutes. They made 150. Zero voicemails.

Speaker A: Zero.

Speaker B: Like zero anything. There's even people. Hello, says the prospect. And they. They hang up. I'm like, that's a two second call. I play the recording. The prospect had hello, said hello, and they. And the SDR hung up. It's happened to me. I picked up the phone, said hello, and people hang up. And they're like, my connect rate is low. And, um, they blame the SDR manager. They blame the tools, behaviors, systems, messaging skills. You get that wrong, you're dead. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker A: I love that. Let's love the framework. I want to talk to you about data here in a second. But to backtrack a bit on cold calling, um, what's the voicemail strategy?

Speaker B: How much of this do I give out? Uh, for free? Um, no, voicemail strategy actually is interesting. So we have a couple of different types of voicemails that we leave for prospects. You also need to understand that the voicemail strategy actually varies by Persona, similarly to, like. Objection. Handling varies by Persona. And then again, I'm gonna give this away for free. Have fun. Use it. Think about it this way. Imagine you call a VP of sales. They pick up the phone. Hello, this is Jack. What do you say? So, like, here's what we like to say. Hey, Jack, my name is Tito Bort. I'm with ALTI Sales. I was just hoping to speak with you briefly today. Do you have two minutes? And, um, more than 80% of the time they'll agree. They'll say yes. But 20% of the time, or 25, 30% of time, they'll be like, oh, man, I'm so busy, I can't talk right now. When it's a BP of sales, here's my response. Oh, come on, Jack. You're a VP of Sales. I'm an SDR. Give me a chance. 45 seconds right now, or I call you at the end of the day. What do you. What do you prefer? You know what happens? They smile. Just like you Smiled right now.

Speaker A: Yeah. You can't do that to a VP of IT though, right?

Speaker B: You can't. That doesn't work. Yeah, My background is psychology.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I studied behavioral economics and decision neuroscience at Duke University under the guidance of Dan Ariely. I am one of the, uh, people that loves to reverse engineer the why behind the what in the brain. If they're rejecting, I need to understand why. If they're not picking up my phone, I need to understand why. What would I do in their shoes? How do they think? What do they feel? And if you just put yourself in their shoes, it is like extreme empathy, you would call it. And, um, then you'll figure out what to say, you'll figure out what. Voicemail works, right? So, like, should your voicemail be like, hey, Jason, you probably have a lot of people calling you apparel dialers and they're so annoying, I swear to God. I'm calling you one on one because I was looking at Albon Squad. I, uh, listened to your last episode. Need to share something with you about the voicemail strategy you're going to be running. Give me a chance. Call me back, email me, it doesn't matter, but I'll call you again tomorrow. I'll try you in the morning. And then you have to call the next day in the morning. If the prospect feels like they're in a sequence, nobody's picking up. If the prospect feels like this is an automated thing, thing, they're not going to engage with you. The reason I give people my time is because I feel like they have put in the time and effort to earn it. And my bar for how to earn it has changed in 2018. You personalize an email, and my feeling was, oh, you spent a lot of time to personalize. You've earned my time. Nowadays, you can send me the most personalized email in the world. You haven't earned shit. That's probably AI. Yeah, it doesn't work because it doesn't prove effort. If you send me a box of chocolates, maybe you're proving that you care, but, uh, it would be better if you send me a Real Madrid T shirt. It would show me you care more because you know me. And like, how will you show me if you leave me a voicemail? It depends what you say and how you say it and how you think about it. And like, if I send, send me an email, how quickly you send me an email, what assets you include. Also, like, can you communicate on my level? That is what works in sales development today, uh, across channels, but very Specifically on phone as well. You think that

Speaker A: the current model M of. Let me backtrack. One of the benefits of working with like Alti Sales, let's say, is that you have these experienced SDRs.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: You're not bringing someone in like these companies, that's their first job and expecting them within two or three months to land a mess, uh, you know, at 23 years old to land a message with some, uh, land a meeting rather with someone in the C suite.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: M. How do you feel about the current like SDR model? Like what's broken? Is it broken?

Speaker B: Um, I think a lot of people are doing it wrong and the reason they're doing it wrong could, uh, be many. One of them is hiring like too many young, hungry SDRs when the process have not been figured out. I think of building an SDR team as I think about building a revenue machine. When I think about building a revenue machine. Let me bring you an example.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: You see these? Yeah. AirPods. Recognize them? You're using them. Look at the back of the box. It says, designed by Apple in California, assembled in Vietnam. I'm going to explain the business model of this AirPods. How much do you think these cost to make in Vietnam right now?

Speaker A: Bucks.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm, I'm in agreement. It must be around there. How much do they sell it for?

Speaker A: These ones I think were 250 bucks or something crazy like that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 50 to 350 the Pro or 350 the Regular?

Speaker A: 250. Yeah.

Speaker B: Profitable. Yeah, insanely profitable. Okay, wait a second. I'm gonna ask a different question. Somebody invented these like in California, some designer designed the perfect AirPods. They decided on every part, on every curve, on everything. How much do you think it cost Apple to pay? The salaries, the tools, taxes, benefits, insurance and everything to go from. Oh, uh, we should release some sort of like, you know, AirPods to the product being ready. How many what?

Speaker A: I would assume that's an 8, 9 figure plus investment to build a product like that for the first that that works.

Speaker B: Okay, so that's the business model. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to invest $100 million to get the best people in the world to build a product and a system and a. They need to create the manufacturing process. How does this AirPod case get created? The charging port. How quickly does it charge? What type of battery does the case have? What type of battery do the AirPods have? We spent a hundred million dollars to build it and once it's ready and we love it and we user test it and blah blah, blah. We can produce them for 10 bucks and we can sell them for 350. You know what's the problem in the world of sales development today? Nobody.

Speaker A: They don't do the first part. Yeah, they don't do the first part.

Speaker B: You know what they come and say? They say, Jason, these cost $10 to produce and uh, they sell for 250. Here's $12, bring me AirPods that are better than these. Build them in house. And you're like, boss, I can't do that. What do you mean? Here's $12. Bring me AirPods that are better than these. They're like, yeah, what if you had no AirPods Zero and the company doesn't exist? You're a competitor of Apple and I'm like, jason, your role is to produce a competitive product to AirPods. I just need to test it. Bring me 10, 10 products to test. Here's $3,000. It's more than the AirPods cost themselves. They cost 250. I'm going to give you 300 times 10, 3,000. Create me 10 pairs of competitive AirPods and prove to me that they're better quality than Apple. Who in the right mind would think that that's even a possible idea? You need to hire the California team to build the machine and the systems and iterate and control and measure and like obsess with the quality and get to the point where the user experience is amazing. So, so Altisales is the California team. We get hired by companies that say, my AirPod manufacturing process is broken. My pipeline manufacturing process is broken. I'm going to hire a set of experts that have built manufacturing plants for airpods, pipeline teams for tech teams. And um, they are going to produce the target addressable market. They're going to iterate on the messaging, they're going to iterate on the cold calls, on the emails and the LinkedIn and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And it's going to cost me a fortune. Thousands of dollars per meeting, but it doesn't matter, it's the upfront cost. Eventually they're going to demonstrate that I can hire a kid out of college with a perfect script, with a perfect sequence, with the perfect email, with a perfect structure, with a perfect messaging, with a perfect management structure, one on one, documents, training documents, PIP documents, comp structures, SDRA handoffs, pipeline management, CRM automations, everything. And they're going to hand it off to me. And at that moment, which will take 18 months to build at that moment I can produce meetings for 1000 bucks and on average they close 15% of them into revenue. On my average deal says it's 100k. So it cost me 15k to acquire 100k customer and at that point I go to the moon. But to get there I first need to put hundreds of thousands of dollars to build the machine. I'm the machine builder. I then allow them to be the machine operators.

Speaker A: Yeah, so really love that analogy by the way. So it's, it's really about, hey, this is not an argument over whether or not the SDR model works or not. It's really how are you building the machine? How are you building the model in its the old predictable revenue style of like I'm just going to hire a shit ton of SDRs and we're just going to like mass volume and not really think about like the pipeline that's created the closed one revenue and we're just going to sequence the shit out of our market like that's been dying of really quick death. And that's not, that's not a new, that's not a new thing, you know. And I think that a lot of these organizations are getting really slapped in the face with that in the last like three or four years where it's like oh shit, now that our VC and PE firm is actually looking at the profitability of our company and we're looking at everything that our sales development department sources and we're seeing that, oh, uh, we actually operate at a loss with the pipeline that they generate. Like I think a lot of these companies are finally waking up.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's non sustainable and like there's people like Mark Roberge talked about this in his saster talk in 2017. He said look under the hood. Like the only way that most STR teams can be profitable on an SDR headcount basis right now is to say, oh my sdr got like seven meetings. And um, those seven meetings turn to like 30k in revenue for the month. And the SDR costs like with taxes, benefits, insurance, management tools, data like 12, 15, 18K, whatever it might be. And they're producing 30K. They cost 12K at the cost of the account executive across all the deals that they're closing. So we're at 25k worth of expenses on a 30k deal. So it works. CAC pay period under 12 months, renewal rate at 103% NRR. Like the math works, the math works. But then you look under the hood and what you realize is out of the seven meetings they got, four of them were demo requests and three of them were outbound. And everything that closed was a demo request. So, so then because that CFO hasn't looked under the hood and they just looked at like these big pipeline numbers, they're like, let's triple the team. And you know what happens? They triple the team. The new reps are being also assigned inbound. So the previous rep goes from seven to six meetings because their inbounds are now distributed among more reps. The new reps don't ramp up as much because they don't have a proven process. The old reps that were the best are being promoted to AES or something else. So the machine completely breaks. The new reps need to rebuild the process and they're averaging two to three outbound meetings a month. There's not a good outbound SDR handoff to the AES and then it ends up turning into nothing. I know companies with 20, 30, 40, 50 SDRs that like, you look under the hood and you're like, this is a disaster of a team. Like, this is completely unprofitable. But like, nobody's paying attention to the actual metrics that are proving that this is completely broken. Um, and the executive team is just like, no, we need more pipeline, make more dials. Let's throw a spiff for dials, auto dialers. Um, who's more likely to pick up, score the leads? Like, it's just all short term tactics. Nobody's spending the time like Apple to build the right process that is repeatable and sustainable. What's most important, the metric that we're the most proud of is our account to meeting ratio at 17%. If you give me 100 accounts, I will get you 17 meetings. Give me another hundred, another 17 meetings, another 100, another 17 meetings. And uh, our SEOs work about 150 to 100 accounts a month, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's really interesting. Our yield on a per month basis is going to have about 8 to 12 meetings per month. But those same accounts, we're going to give them three months, six months, they say, call me later or we recycle them. So like, we have a really good yield. An SDR with 600 accounts in a year will produce 100 meetings or 103 meetings. That is a valuable team because then I say if I have 6,000 accounts, I can have 10 SDRs, and if I have 60,000 accounts, I can have 100 SDRs being profitable. Most people are not thinking that way, they're just like, more meetings, more volume. That burns the tam and it burns the play. Yeah. The same play you're running runs out of Runway.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then you need to build a new play that's not as effective and not as effective. So your efficiency keeps going down while my efficiency keeps going up and stays consistent.

Speaker A: So how is. Speaking of efficiency, AI, what are you. What's your take on AI and how that's disrupting Outbound and the SDR model? And how are you leveraging AI, all of that stuff? Because we've moved very dramatically, like with all of the agents and things like that that are available now, we've moved from a prompting. Hey, I m. Am a rep and it's, oh, cool, I can have it do some account research and I prompt back and forth and have it write an email. It's like, that was just like, barely skimming the surface of what we could do with all the agentic stuff that's out now. Um, but how are. How is. How does this fit into your business model and where you see the industry going? Yes.

Speaker B: My opinion at large has not changed from the episode I did with surf and sales, uh, three and a half years ago about AI. I always said AI will not replace SDRs. The main reason for this. Jason, how many meetings have you personally taken? You're a business owner. People want to sell you stuff. There's definitely stuff to sell to Outbound Squad. How many meetings have you personally taken over the past month? 2 months? 3 months with an AI generated outbound rep,

Speaker A: it's zero. Yeah. I've never, ever responded to any of that stuff. I'm kind of a hard person to get a meeting with anyways. I'm not really, because we've run a small business. I'm not getting the best of the best of reps reaching out to me. But I don't think I've ever taken a meeting from cold outreach, like, ever.

Speaker B: When I talk to other people, the answer is almost always the same, is zero. And, um, how many of the emails that you get that you think are potentially AI generated do you read? How many do you open?

Speaker A: I would say most of what hits my inbox gets opened, um, because I'm curious what's in there. I'm maybe a bad person to. To ask that. But as soon as I tell it's AI, I. I'm not going to read the rest of the email. There's no point in reading the rest of the eo.

Speaker B: That is fascinating to me. I agree with that. I Think that's the human psychology?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: As soon as I realize it's AI Stopped reading. If we become. If I may ask further, why do you think your brain immediately shuts off the moment it feels like it's AI? Because you're telling me if it's a. If it feels like it's a human, you might read more. What?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What makes you read

Speaker A: the feeling is just like. I think it's two things. One, I'm sensitive to rejecting other people like you. I get asked by a lot of people, hey, can you give me feedback on this thing? Or, hey, I'm going through this thing in my career. Can we hop on a call? I'd love to get your insight on it. I don't feel good about saying no to people. So there's a rejection piece where it's like the AI. I'm not rejecting a human. Right. I think the other thing, though, is this is a similar feeling to when you get sent a group text and someone's inviting a group of people to something and they haven't reached out to you one on one to see if you'd be interested in that. They're inviting, like, the group. I never respond to shit like that. It's like you're messaging the group. There's nothing about that that feels like, oh, you want to invite me, right? There's nothing about that that's showing that you're thinking about me.

Speaker B: Uh, have you heard of the phrase, like, spend five minutes to earn five minutes?

Speaker A: No, I haven't, actually.

Speaker B: Oh, so somebody said that. I don't remember who it is. It's some other leader. It's not my thing. But somebody said you got to spend five minutes or in five minutes. And, uh, you're kind of describing that. You're like, if they actually took the time of their day to reach out to me and be like, jason, we're doing a boat party in Miami this weekend, and I know you're going to be in town. I love for you to come. You're much more likely to go than if you get a group test. Like, hey, old people, you're all in Miami. We're doing a boat party. We'd love for you all to come.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Why? Because they actually spend the time to focus on you. So our human psychology, this is just our regular brain, feels like if somebody has spent the time and effort, they're proving that they care. The reason that you see an, uh, email, and as soon as you open it, you detect it's AI, you delete it. Is because you feel like they didn't care. And to be honest, if they're sending you AI written emails, they didn't care about you. They cared about their pipeline. That AI written email is selfish, not selfless. If they cared, they would have done it differently. They need to care about you. So I don't believe that AI will replace STRs, because whatever the AI can do for company A, it can also do for company B. And the moment that company A deploys it and nobody else has done this yet, it. It will work for a few weeks, for a few months, until everybody has taken one or two meetings with that strategy. Then company B says, company A is being very successful. Let's replicate company B launches that. Uh, I've already taken a meeting with that same email, and I get another email that now says, tito, I hope the, uh, you know, sunny Miami weather today on April 22nd is the perfect backdrop to celebrate your success of building 92 SDR teams with up to 2026 and your incredible investments. The first time I saw that, I was like, this person has researched everything about me. Now I'm like, oh, yeah, screw you, right? Go away. Like, block, yeah, selfish. I label the person, email me. I label that company as selfish or selfless. And the selfless people, I will take the call. The selfish people, I won't take the call. I, by default, is selfish. You're not doing the work. You're automating it. I don't believe AI will. Will fully automate. I'll tell you what I believe is the right strategy to make your SDR team the most effective SDR team in the world. You got to turn AI into enablement. I have SDRs that every call they have gets analyzed by AI and it suggests next steps. It says, this person rejected you on the phone within eight seconds because they felt it was a parallel dialogue. Immediately send a connect request and say, jason, uh, I'm the guy who called you. Seems like I caught you at a horrible time. Huge apologies. I'm, um, sending you a detailed email. It'll have two blue dots in the subject line. Email with two blue dots. Pre drafted. You get researched. It says Jason, specifically reaching out to you. Your episode with Tito Borg was amazing. It taught me, really, how to use AI and how to think about the human psychology. I want to be on your podcast, or my CEO wants to be on your podcast. You know, you do him a favor, right? Look at his profile here, the articles. He's wrong. Like, enable the human to look more human. But it's Very custom. That's what you need to start doing with AI you're going to have humans with great judgment that can produce insane results by being enabled by the AI their objection handling everything. And the same happens to the AES. I think the revolution of AI will affect AE work and AE employment a lot more than SDR employment and SDR work.

Speaker A: Really.

Speaker B: Oh tremendous. Your quote has to be up 5x. All your emails, all your pings have to be completely automated. Of course all this CRM data entry is gone. You don't need to CRM data entry anything. All your calls immediately after you take them needs to be scored. It gets run through all the company medpic spies, whatever you want to do it. All our company materials, all our competitor scorecards, all our best practices and I get a summary. Tito, great call with XYZ company. Here's the top three things you did really well. Top three things you got to improve. Here's your pre drafted follow up email. I've already moved this to stage one. Here's the calendar link associated with your SC to get the second call. Here's the information of the other three stakeholders that are included in the pre draft in your inbox just review and click send. Something that would take you an hour and a half is now 30 seconds. So my AES calendars on average what I see is two to three hours of calls and five hours of administration. The five hours of admin better be taken down to like 15 minutes so now you can take us twice as many calls and you can improve a lot faster because the AI is reviewing the calls and what people are going to buy is I think they need to buy the Outbound Squad package. They can connect their MCP to all the Outbound Squad methodology and as my calls are getting scored I want it scored based on Jason based belief and methodology. It says here's the scorecard according to our internal company enablement team. Here's the score come to Medpick. Here's a scorecard according to like spiced. Here's a scorecard according to Spin selling. Here's the score according to Gap selling. Here's the score according to Jason Bay. Yeah commonality of things you need to improve blah blah blah. I've added this item to your one on one with your boss. Yeah cloud can do all that right now you just need to spend a little bit of time to automate it and you need a lot of rebels people to start building this. But yeah my AE quota it will never again be 5x 5x uh, salary, 5x, uh, OT. Right? 5x coverage, so they say, right? Like 100k base, 200k OT means a million dollars, right? Like that's the common, it better be 100k, 200kot. 2 million dollar quota. Yeah, you can, you can, you can manage twice as many, Twice as many customers. Why have 10 AES, just have five.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you move the headcount to the SDRs because what people are lacking is pipeline and the, the email reply rate is tanking and the connect rate on the phone is tanking and it requires more humans. You know how many times I'm dealing with an account executive? I just renewed Zoom info and Lead IQ and Lucia and all these tools. I'm like, I work crazy hours. Don't get me wrong. Two in the morning, I'm like, oh, I have a question about the API access in my subscription FOR um, lead IQ. I gotta send an email. It's 2 in the morning, I don't get a response. Dude, here's what I need. I meet with an ae. After the meeting, they say, tito, I'm gonna send you a deal room or whatever you want to call actually contains JSON based AI. Any question you have about anything we discussed in this call or anything about else Lead iq, you can ask it in the chat. My AI will respond to you. If it doesn't know the answer, it's going to prepare for me. At 8:30 in the morning every morning I go and I correct the AI on the answers it should have given you. So at 2 in the morning. Oh, will my subscription include API access? No, Tito, I want, uh, but I really need it. Can I have a trial of that? Trials are not available for API access. How much do I need to pay to Upgrade? It's another $300 a month. Fine, I'll do it. Quote is being auto created.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Can I sign quarter to quarter? Yes, but pricing is different. It would instead be blah blah, blah. Okay, I'll buy for a quarter. Great. Here's the link to pay. Click pay. Done. Uh, onboard. Why do I need an ae?

Speaker A: Dude?

Speaker B: Yeah, like uh, I'm not saying I don't need an AE completely, but like 80% of the work that an AE does, like if you look at their schedule and analyze the tasks that they're doing and you analyze what an SDR is doing, I think AES are more automatable in more areas. And now Instead of having 20 AES, I can have five. I'm gonna, I'm gonna fire the bottom 50% of those roles and my sales are going to skyrocket because the leads go to better AES.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: The role is not getting replaced like that. The role is not getting replaced. But Brendan Short said this, this is not me. Everybody that says stuff that I've learned from, they deserve the credit. Brendan Short said AI will not replace STRs. SDRs using AI will replace STRs not using AI. Yeah, I think he's very correct in that. I think it is even more correct for like now companies need to. Some people have those GTM engineers. Uh, I think that's thing of the past in the mindset. You need people building on top of your mcp. Your rev ops team has to be like you need an AI enablement leader that shadows people in your company, sees what the hell they're doing. Oh, csm. You're taking manual notes in meetings and sending follow up emails. Are you insane? We're not going to do that anymore. Next week workflow replaced engineering. You're writing manual tickets to see what you're going to. No, that's not. We're going to grab the call recordings, we're going to parse it, we're going to blah blah blah. We're going to get context. Wait. How many of your tasks don't have a follow up date? How many of your tasks don't have a next step? We're going to surface those every morning. Every 9am Monday you're going to get all the tasks in your asana that don't have a next step. Why are all these stats not have a OKR or company priority attached to it? The AI is going to suggest what should they be attached to? If they're not attached to anything, it's going to ask you. You're going to label. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Everybody gets dictation allowed in their thing. You don't type anymore to your AI. You talk to your AI. Your AI does the work while you sip your margarita on the beach. That's where we're going, dude. On the future is here. This is happening in three months.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's wild. We were talking before we hit record. Just all of the vibe coding and stuff that we've been doing. It's like I've built three internal company applications for stuff I could not figure out how to do with asana. Ah. Or a Google sheet or whatever in like three weeks. Dude. Um. Well, it's been great.

Speaker B: I'm so excited.

Speaker A: Yeah, the uh, I built one that's like a delivery hub. So our entire client calendar and how we manage the engagement post sale. We had to do through a combination of asana and like, we had spreadsheet to help us kind of do this and to get it customized. I built that in about three or four hours. Um, I built out an online scorecard that we're using. Um, we're about to release an outbound masterclass course. I went in a studio and recorded three hours of like, just our best shit. And I was like, I got to create a workbook for this. I was like, why would I create a Word Doc or a Google Doc that people have to fill out? Why not make it an interactive workbook that's an app. So I built that out, you know, where you can just go through and you can follow along with the course and like, do the exercises inside of an app that like, does stuff for you versus writing everything out on a dock. You know, it's just like, the possibilities are endless. Dude, um, dude, we gotta go. I could talk to you for another hour about this, man. Um, can you let people know what you're up to, where to find you? Um, if you're hiring, let us know. Like, where can, where can people go to get more of Tito and what you're up to?

Speaker B: I'm only hiring AI agents. I always have. I run a very profitable company. I am hiring people who are incredible. Um, doesn't matter the role. If you're incredible, talk to me. There's probably space for you in this company. Um, find me on LinkedIn, Titobort. My name is super unique. Um, you won't have, uh, you won't find too many other profiles of that name. Uh, only potentially my dad, so that's easy. And then check out altisales.com and gtmcaddy IO and those are the places where you can find the stuff that I'm up to. Um, I'm investing in early stage businesses always. Especially only B2B. You need to have some traction. I have a lot of little details. I'm very careful exactly on, on where I win. But, um, if you need any help with sales, development, training, internal teams, or like revamping your Playbox or things like that, um, I would. I'm so passionate about coming with my whole AI stack and my whole, like, team. Like, I'm, I'm not four figures and I'm not five figures. I'm definitely six figures. I'm. I'm a bigger investment, but I love developing leaders as well. So I get hired by like founding SDR leaders that deploy me to helping build the playbook I'm, um, there six to 18 months, and then I get the hell out of there, and you take all the credit for the success. So I'm a stopgap between we need to grow and, like, we have an incredible machine. I teach you to build the AirPods, and then I let you build them at scale, and you get the profitable side of the house. Um, I'm the sunk cost that you need to spend at the beginning to build the machinery and the process and the systems and the mindset and all that. So it's been a pleasure, man. Thanks for letting me kind of, like, tell people a bit about me and, uh, who knows if people are enjoying this a lot. Share it with every friend you have. Um, put it on your slack community, send it to your boss. Uh, and embrace all the things that I'm saying. Embrace the AI Ah. Embrace building the dashboards and analyze the data. Understand the psychology of the people. Um, and, um, tell Jason you want to see me again. Maybe we'll do round number two.