Craig Ramsey of ACI Worldwide and Anthony Serio of 7T World on Financial Inclusion, Stablecoin, AI, and the World Cup

Speaker A: Off the rails from the us faster payments council.

Speaker B: This is off the Rails from the US Faster Payments Council. As always, I'm your host, Reid Lutanen, CEO of the fpc. Today I'm joined by Craig Ramsey, Global Head of Account to Account Payments at ACI Worldwide, and Anthony Sario, Co Founder and COO@7T World. The three of us talk about an upcoming resource from FPC's Financial Inclusion Workgroup, the adoption curve for different payments technologies, and the upcoming World Cup. But first, the headlines. The call for session proposals for the FPC Fall Member Meeting is open. That event will be in Kansas City November 4th through the 6th and bonus opportunity. We are also accepting session proposals for the Spring Member meeting, which will be in March in San Antonio, Texas. Find all of that@fasterpaymentscouncil.org of course. And as always, a huge thank you to our Fall Member Meeting sponsors. First, our Platinum Sponsors, ACI Worldwide, North American Banking Company and Visa Direct, and our Gold sponsors Aloya, bny, Brightwell, De Novo, Treasury, EPAY Resources, Federal Reserve Financial Services, Finsley, Mastercard, Form 3, Plaid, Shazam, the Clearinghouse, PTAP Advisory, Trustly, Validify, Westpay and WISEA. FPC's board of directors elections are wrapping up and we will soon be seeking nominations for our Board Advisory Group. We encourage all FPC members who are interested in helping to shape the future of the FPC and the work we'll be doing to submit your nominations. The Board Advisory Group will be meeting with Board of Directors in person at the Fall Member Meeting in Kansas City and at the 2027 spring member meeting in San Antonio. And it is already time to look ahead to that Fall conference season, though I think July and August are a bit of a stretch when it comes to calling things fall. We did have our Spring Member Meeting in February, so I guess I can't talk. In any case, I'm excited to be headed Back to the paymentsed forum, which will be July 27th through the 29th in Boston. I'll be joining an incredible panel to talk about payments modernization to that group of merchants. Then in August it's back to Dollywood for Payments first and the Solutions Payments Conference where FPC will be exhibiting and engaging with the financial institution attendees. And I will be presenting a session on leadership in the payments industry with some other CEOs. Then in September be back in front of that merchant community with sessions at the Merchant Risk Council's MRC San Diego event as well as Merchant Advisory Group's Payments Conference. This corporate audience is incredibly important for us and I'm excited to get in front of those groups. The FPC is positioned to take the lead when it comes to building out the standards and frameworks that will define the next generation of payments. And merchants and other business end users have an opportunity right now to claim their seat at the table. That's a message I'm excited to bring to that audience in a variety of forums and that will do it for the headlines. Let's get to that discussion with Anthony Serio from 7T and Craig Ramsey from ACI Worldwide. All right, we're joined by Craig Ramsey of ACI Worldwide and Anthony Serio of 7T World. Thanks for joining us guys.

Speaker A: Thanks Reed. Good to be here.

Speaker C: Good to be here. Thanks for having us.

Speaker B: Great. Well, how do we start by? You guys are both very active in our financial inclusion work group at the fpc. So Craig, why don't we start with just the why, why do we have a financial inclusion work group? You know, what are they, what is that group worked on and focused on?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, just for the benefit of people that aren't familiar with the work groups, obviously the US Faster Payments Council is made up of excellent industry experts with like minded thoughts. And the, some of the work that the FPC does is to channel that energy via work groups into outputs, deliverables, industry knowledge, thought leadership, that kind of thing. And one of those excellent work groups chaired by Anthony is the Financial inclusion work group. And that has been around now for quite a while and been looking at financial uh, inclusion funny enough, and how do we drive faster payments, uh, around communities and what's the benefit of that for everybody? The subgroups of those work groups then really dig into deeper details and one of the subgroups that we set up within the financial inclusion workgroup was access to technology. We wanted to take a look at how technology impacts financial inclusion and what could be done, um, by the industry at large to make better use of technology, better access to technology. That is for the benefit of. All

Speaker B: right, and Anthony, that that group recently finished a paper that we're going to be publishing soon, next, next week, um, and we will follow up with our listeners when that happens of course. But what was the genesis of that paper and why did the work group take that up?

Speaker C: Well, I think it's important that first I give a tip of the hat to Craig. Um, Craig led that effort. Um, and what we were looking at was a different way to look at some case studies to look at broader aspects of financial inclusion. Um, but not in the Typical, um, access to technology that one would normally think about. Right. This wasn't just about technology. This was about how, uh, certain sectors, uh, within finance, within state and local government, um, look to use technology to assist with, uh, all aspects of inclusion. And of course, I wouldn't want to give the paper away, uh, but I will say that there are some fantastic insights in there and we really want people to be able to read those insights and respond. And for those that have perspectives, let us know what you're seeing not only at your financial institution, but at your community level too. Because I think that's one of the aspects of the financial inclusion work group, um, that we really wanted to emphasize were those human stories. And I think that's what the sub, um, work group did here is it really presented a case of human stories and how impactful technology can be and where it's working and where it's not working.

Speaker B: Yeah, technology is one of those things where if it's done right, it can really open doors for all kinds of, for people in various ways. And if it's, if it's done less thoughtfully, it can potentially even. It can be. It can run counter to that. So we, I think it's awesome to be thinking about how do we make sure that we're thinking about technology in ways that can, um, include and empower, uh, folks. So staying with you, Anthony. Give us a, you mentioned that there's case studies in there. Give us a, Give us, give us a taste of something in the paper. Kind of give people a sense of what they're going to get when they, when they read the full thing.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think one, One thing that I'll pull a thread on is that, um, we were, uh, connected with some folks in New Orleans at the municipal level. Right. And looking at digital equity and policy and through the mayor's office, uh, there was quite an amazing conversation around, you know, broadband, affordable devices, digital literacy, you know, how, how you can deliver, uh, through, uh, telecoms, how you can help with schools, uh, where the intersection is with nonprofits. And, and those are the types of insights that normally you don't get through, uh, a paper that would be based on what the financial sector is doing. And I think that aspect, that human story aspect at the ground level, especially in a place like New Orleans, um, as we know, we've seen the tragedies that that city has gone through. Right. Um, and to be able to get access to folks that were willing to share with us the lessons that they've learned and where they want to Go. Um, that's something really special. And these types of things don't come around very often in space. Right. We, we tend to be focused on um, how we can have a tech stack that makes things bigger, better and faster. But if a human being can't get access to that, it doesn't really help out in, in moments of tragedy when there's natural disasters.

Speaker B: Yeah. Craig, as you worked on this, Anthony said you were the, you were certainly, I don't know if you want me to call you the leader, but definitely that's the impression I, I've gotten, is that you've really helped lead this thing. Um, and you worked with all the folks who are putting it together and worked with the New Orleans, uh, mayor's office, etcetera, to put that piece together. Um, as people are approaching the paper, what are some of the questions you hope they have as they pick it up and start to read it?

Speaker A: Yeah, we did a series of interviews, myself and other members of the subgroup, um, to interview across industry, providers, government. Yes, we introduced New Orleans. They've been a friend of the FBC in the past and sure enough they came through again and gave uh, us some amazing insights to how their communities um, m engage with financial services and how they struggle to engage as well. Uh, Katrina was mentioned, but also just Even here in 2026, there is real diverse access to different parts of technology that were fascinating to hear and I think, you know, if we learn anything through the interviews is don't think you know the answer to this problem, access to technology. I went into that thinking, well you know, we're going to hear the same old stories about um, people of a certain age, seniors, they're there struggling to access. We're going to hear the same stories of, of poor people or lower income families getting access. Yes, they was in there. But there were so many other stories as well that we learned and it really gave us um, a good general picture of key areas that the industry can do better in order to solve for these problems. And if there's a question to ask it's why have I not read this paper? And you know, you'll be able to soon. But it really um, gives clear guidance to different parts of the industry as to what they can do to actually do a better job. For the benefit of all, let's be clear, this isn't just about oh, I want additional people being able to do payments. It helps people um, get out of areas um, where they're stuck in a financial wilderness when they've got access to technology. Um, it gives a better experience for them to receive money as well as send money. It makes them more productive on a daily basis. If they haven't got to go cash a check, even better when they haven't got a co, cash a check and lose a uh, large amount of it to the actual caching service. So there are real benefits for everybody including the financial institutions by doing things differently, whether it's infrastructure, your user interfaces, your products, your services. And we've tried to capture a good, good uh, blend of those different things in the paper which we think will help everyone as they read the paper and think this is what I can do to help everybody in our country.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's great. And um, like I mentioned, this paper will be posted of course at the FPC website in our resources section. We'll be posting about it on LinkedIn and other places and I'll mention it of course here once it's, once it's live on the mention on the podcast so everybody knows to go to go grab it if you haven't already seen it some other way. Um, great piece of work. Appreciate you guys doing that. Let's move on and play some games, talk about some other, some other topics going on in this, in the payment space. Um, and let's, let's play odd one out. So I'm going to give you guys three choices. You're going to just pick which one you think is the odd one out and then tell us why based on whatever criteria your brain comes up with. So we'll start with uh, let's start with Anthony, uh, and then Craig on this one. Stablecoin, Tokenized deposits and Bitcoin,

Speaker C: uh, Bitcoin is going to be the odd one out. Um, Bitcoin is based on a volatility trading model. Um, it doesn't really move the needle anymore. There was a point in time where it definitely moved the needle and opened the door and enabled people to understand cryptography, to understand the power of blockchain and, and all the different blockchain protocols that exist. But, but I think outside of a play on uh, guessing where something's going to go and trying to make money like stocks or bonds, it's, it's day is, it's kind of set where it is. Stablecoins are the future of payments. Not only cross border payments but peer to peer payments. And tokenized deposits are something that every single financial institution is going to be adopting. Um, some faster than others. Right. Um, but where we can't mandate it, consumers will drive those choices. But I just want to add the caveat that stablecoin is just a new pay rail. Right? We know how to deal with pay rails. We're experts in dealing with pay rails, so we understand the risk and the compliance. And tokenized deposits is just a really cool new piece of technology that helps consumers and helps really, in essence, uh, solve the question about 24, 7, 365 and being able to have access and know what your balance is. So unfortunately, uh, some of my web three, uh, brothers and sisters are going to be very upset that I chose Bitcoin, but, uh, I will stand 10 toes down.

Speaker B: What do you think, Craig?

Speaker A: Well, I'm assuming you don't want to give me, you don't want to give me the same three or four minutes that, uh, actually just had for that, but, uh, I can do if you want me to. And we're, we're sure enough we're, you know, at aci, we're seeing a lot of interest, uh, in stable coin and tokenized deposits. But let me answer your question. Yes, I agree Bitcoin's the odd one out. Um, I think I'll, uh, I'll refer to it as the distraction of noise. I think at the moment, um, it's, it's not where the future lies.

Speaker B: All right, how about these three, Craig? Industry, government, or individuals.

Speaker A: I would answer that differently depending on which country in the world I might be referring to it as. But, um, for our friends and colleagues in the U.S. i'm going to say government because I think industry and individuals can move the payments industry forward with demand and push and you know, the uh, the things that a, ah, capitalist culture can drive forward, a democracy can drive forward. Um, I don't think government can necessarily make that shift as easily in the

Speaker B: U.S. what do you think, Anthony?

Speaker C: 100 agree. We don't have mandates, so it's up to industry and consumers to drive the market where they want it to be.

Speaker B: All right, how about these three, Craig? France, England or the United States?

Speaker A: Well, that's, that's a rabbit hole we can get stuck in forever, isn't it? Um, let's go with the forthcoming World cup. That's the football World cup or the soccer World cup, depending on your side of the Atlantic. Um, I think the US Will do better than most people will. It will expect. Um, and that's not meant to be rude. It's not a primary Sport in the U.S. but you know, it's, it's catching on. It's a long way forward. From where it was years ago. Um, and it's not unusual for a host country to do very well into quarterfinals. Actually the ticket sales people will be desperate for the uh, for the US to do well for obvious ticket sales reasons. Uh, England and France will both be strong and although this pains me, I'm gonna call out France as the odd one out as I think they're the most likely to win it.

Speaker B: What do you think, Anthony? Uh, uh, I, actually I'm gonna, I'm gonna opine here a bit because I think, I think, I think you're right. I think the US Uh host nations tend to do better than they normally would. So the US being the host nation is going to be helpful, right? You have the crowd behind you, you're sleeping in your own time zones. You've got all that, all those advantages built into it. I, I think the, the dark horse might be, might be Argentina. I think they're uh, they're not getting, again, not getting as much play as I think they maybe deserve. But uh, we'll see um, what happens.

Speaker A: They haven't got Lionel anymore. That might be a, that might be a push.

Speaker B: I know, but they're, they're still going to be good. And time zone wise they're not as far off as a lot of countries. So if you, if you care about time zones, which I do. Um, Anthony, how about these three Olympics? Uh, World Cup, Super Bowl.

Speaker C: Mhm. That's tough. I'm, I'll go odd out. Super Bowl. Um, I still don't think American football is nearly as popular as the Olympics. Certainly not anywh near as popular as the World Cup. And I've been waiting since 1974, since Pele came to New York for, for football to, to really become the sport here in the United States. So I keep hoping we'll see if that happens.

Speaker B: It's been the sport of the future since 1974. Um, how about these three guys and we'll stick with you, Anthony. Access value proposition or technology?

Speaker C: Value prop is subjective so I'll, I'll leave that as the odd man out. I think technology, uh, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on uh, where you are in the world is necessary um, to get people the type of equity and inclusion that we uh, like to talk about. Um, but again, um, without, without mandates here in the United States. It's, it's kind of a toss up I think.

Speaker B: What do you think, Greg?

Speaker A: I think value proposition. But I might go a slightly different way to Anthony. For me the value proposition is king. Uh, um, without A clear value proposition to do anything. Why would you do it? It's as simple as that. The value proposition has to be super clear, super understandable and super easy to deliver. And when we look back at uh, success stories over years, decades, however, you know, since the dawn of man kind, we see value propositions as on everything. And that's, that's why they've been successful. We can also look back, particularly in the payments industry. We can look back at, ah, things that were incredible technology but have largely failed to take off because no one could quite understand what problem they were solving. You know, in the, in the industry, larger people will recognize this. It's, it's a great solution waiting for a problem to solve. We, we hear that time and time again. So technology is great, it's got solved the problem and therefore the value proposition is king.

Speaker B: All right, good stuff. Hey, congratulations. You guys have both won. Uh, odd one out. Well done. You, you actually agreed on every single one of them, which makes me a little sad.

Speaker A: That makes me worried actually. But there you go.

Speaker B: Um, all right, how about we play word association, the game that our listeners should be familiar with by now. I'll uh, throw out a word or a phrase and you guys just tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. Um, let's stick with you, Craig. How about this one? Send.

Speaker A: Get on with it. Do more. Send. Get on with it. Stop, stop delaying. Stop thinking. Well, you know, maybe our customers don't want to be able to send instant payments. They do. Let's get on with it.

Speaker B: Anthony's shake, nodding his head. So I assume he's in agreeance here.

Speaker C: Yeah, 100%.

Speaker B: It's time, it's time for send. Uh, how about, uh, Anthony Fall conference,

Speaker C: Kansas City barbecue, good conversations, meeting with like minded colleagues, being challenged on assumptions and as always, supporting the fpc.

Speaker B: All right, I, I mean, what do you think, Craig? You got.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Be there. That's a simple thing. If you're not there, you can't partake of the conversation, you can't join in the conversation. And guess what? You should have an opinion on the conversation. So be there.

Speaker B: All right, Anthony. Lego.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: Uh, what can I say? I'm an owner of 72 unique Star Wars LEGO sets and we have well over 150 in the house. I wish I could take, uh, a tour of the headquarters. Uh, that is a dream. And uh, if I could ever be a Lego engineer, I, I think I would leave payments forever.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, they need, you know, I mean, Copenhagen Next week. Uh, Anthony, sorry,

Speaker B: have you seen they got the new uh, the new set that's the Main Street USA from Disneyland LEGO set or did I just cost you?

Speaker C: There are, yeah, yeah there are several on, on, on the list. Um and I will say this if, if sticker shock is, is a factor, uh, this hobby is not for uh, the faint of heart.

Speaker B: That's 100% true. I have a 12 year old son and he likes Lego a lot. Uh, let's see Craig. Use cases.

Speaker A: Clear. Clear use cases. Don't over complex them. It comes back to the value proposition actually one earlier on, the old one out. Um, use cases are great. Everyone needs to understand them, everyone needs to see them. Everyone can add to use cases but don't over complicate Anthony.

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I 100 once again agree with Craig.

Speaker B: All right, how about Anthony, we'll go to, go to the next one then. Cross Border.

Speaker C: I think still the most misunderstood uh, form of payment but it will be the form of payment that really pushes stablecoin payments um, into uh, everyone's digital wallet. Every bank will uh, adopt it and it will be driven solely by the B2B use cases in cross border payments for speed, efficiency and cost savings.

Speaker B: Greg?

Speaker A: Yeah, Cross Border, I agree with Anthony. Uh, it's a great use case for digital assets. Stablecoin. Ah, fantastic use case. Um, but as with many things there's also a lot of debate around that subject and what I would urge uh, is people look at some of the facts rather than listening to some of the hype on cross border payments. Uh, we do a lot of cross border payments with our, with our banking partners and our, our customers. Um, and there's a general suggestion in the industry that all cross border payments today are slow, they're expensive and banks are taking a heavy uh, FX rate that's not favorable to the customer. I would challenge that. I think that may have been true 25, 30 years ago but the industry at large has done a lot of work around transparency, speed, uh, fees, FX rates. And so some of the marketing I see from some of the providers, certainly not all suggest that we're living 25 years ago. And I would challenge some of that. Just look at some facts.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think the other thing that comes to my mind on Cross Border is the Federal Reserve has their proposed rule change for FedNow that's out there. Um, while we're recording this, the comment period is open. The comment period will actually be closed by the time this goes live. Um, but I think our audience, we'll all be looking to see what the Fed does there and I think we can expect to see some interesting activity in terms of instant payment rails and opening up some cross border flows as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And those responses to that um, to that uh submission will uh, be public as well. So everyone will be able to see what everyone's thinking which is great.

Speaker B: Yep, yep, love it. Uh, how about this one? How about A.I. craig?

Speaker A: Uh, in everything we do, um, it will uh, certainly support um, new processes, it will support existing processes, it will make people more efficient um, and it's certainly the way forward. I don't think we've even begun as a, as a human race to understand exactly what it will be able to do for us fully. Um, but certainly early use cases. Oh, there's that word again. Um, are showing some great benefits to the payments industry, uh, to agentic commerce, to fraud and risk profiling, um, to repair of transactions, to payments insights. The list goes on. We at ACI have got a very long list of things that ACI is already supporting and indeed things we still want it to support and we're working with our partners us to bring those to fruition.

Speaker B: What do you think Anthony? AI.

Speaker C: Yeah, 100%. At 7T World we leverage AI UM as a resource within our products. And what we've learned in building models is that it's also helpful to find efficiencies um, because no matter how well organized one thinks they are or on top of things, when you start to uh, ingest AI as a tool to create efficiencies for your day and to help with certain tasks, you really can see the value add uh, benefits showing up. But I would like to caution that we are still very much in the crawl phase. We have not yet walked, um, and I like Craig believe that we haven't even scratched the surface. Right. But I don't want to also be uh, a naysayer or frightening people. I don't think it's going to replace anything in our lifetimes. Right. It may just make things more efficient. But let's also hope that this is not another bubble. Right. Because um, that is something the industry doesn't need.

Speaker A: I tell you what you can't use AI for Reid, is to summarize the Access to Technology work group paper. Don't do that. Make sure you read it in full because otherwise you'll miss some of the great content.

Speaker B: In that I completely agree. I think I, I think there are going to be some interesting things as we grapple with content creation and content con consumption and what the. What. How AI will play roles in that and, and, um, I think, you know, in particular on the creation side, I think there will be a lot of reckoning to be done on, on, on that. Not that has to do with payments, I guess, but we're all humans as well. Uh, all right, Craig, uh, Kimi Antonelli,

Speaker A: uh, the, the, the young leader of the Formula one World Championship right now, uh, drive us all crazy. Of course. He's, he's 19 years old, he's Italian. So he's got flair, he's got style, he speaks 53 languages, and he drives a Formula One car and lives in Monaco. What's on? I hate him. Let's move on.

Speaker B: You know, one thing I'll say is after, um, the sort of long run of Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes just dominating and then Max Verstappen dominating for a period, it's kind of fun that we're seeing a fair amount of competitiveness among number of drivers and a number of teams. That's kind of, it's, it's a cool.

Speaker A: Uh, and the thing with the Formula one fan is that they'll normally either love or loathe a driver. And the British way certainly is. If someone's winning, you tend to go, well, I'm going to support the, the underdog in here, but there's nothing to not like about Kimmy Antonelli. So, uh, we all love him. Yeah. Good guy.

Speaker B: All right, uh, good stuff. You guys have, you guys have won again. Congratulations. You both won word association as well. Um, as before, we wrap up a new feature on the show. Uh, Anthony and then Craig, give me, give me a LinkedIn account that people should be following.

Speaker C: Well, selfishly, I'm going to say 7T World or myself.

Speaker B: All right, easy, Craig, what do you think?

Speaker A: ACI Worldwide door myself. Yeah, um, we, when we don't publish sales articles, what we do is we try to publish insights to payments and the industry in general. So, yeah, I do encourage you to, to connect, uh, with ACI Worldwide on LinkedIn and you'll hopefully, uh, find something every week that's, uh, that's great content for you to use in your daily lives.

Speaker B: All right, Craig, how about a podcast for people to try out? And obviously you can't say off the rails because they're listening to the.

Speaker A: Off the thrills already beside this one. Okay, um, I'm going to point you to The Sky Sports F1M, uh, podcast. Um, it's a, uh, great behind the curtain scenes of how a multi billion dollar industry works and, uh, There are definitely, um, things you can take away and think, well, actually I can use that in my daily life and how I conduct myself and how I engage with partners and industry generally. So it's, it's not just an F1 play here. I think there's some great sports management going on there that tell us a lot about how we behave.

Speaker B: Fair warning for the American audience. You'll feel dumb because everybody on there sounds British and that means they sound smarter than we do. Anthony, what do you think? Podcast

Speaker C: Prime Junkie. Uh, it was recommended to me like all of these crime podcasts, and it is a rabbit hole that I have happily fallen into. I am completely fascinated by the human condition and these give me a really beautiful distraction and, and give me something else to think about other than the beautiful and fabulous world of faster payments.

Speaker B: Right. Which, which already has its own podcast. How about a book that people should check out?

Speaker A: A book. Um, some of you, some of the listeners may have already read this one. There's this one called the Phoenix project. It's about DevOps and it, uh, and it's written, um, in a. Obviously a fictional way, but brings home great truths about business leadership and how you can turn a failing organization into an amazing organization using DevOps and various IT practices. So it's called the Phoenix Project. Ah. Find it in your local bookstore or on Amazon.

Speaker B: Faster payments Council.

Speaker A: Other online platforms are available.

Speaker C: Anthony, I'm just finishing up the. I'm just finishing up the Unhackable Internet. How Rebuilding Cyberspace Can Create Real Security and Prevent Financial Collapse. Very, uh, good read thus far. And, um, actually I met the author at an FPC conference as a matter of fact, so. What a kawinky dink.

Speaker B: Oh, well, that's. That's funny. You care to tell us who that is?

Speaker C: Yes, it's Thomas Bertanian.

Speaker B: All right. Um, my book, right now, I was sitting by the pool and my son walked up and he just put in my hands Sunrise on the Reaping, which is the fifth book in the Hunger Games series. Although chronologically it's second, I think. Anyway, it's, uh, it's not a bad read. I'm halfway through it. All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us. This has been fun.

Speaker A: Thanks, Reed.

Speaker C: Thank you. Appreciate you.

Speaker B: And that is it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to Craig and to Anthony for joining me and please take a moment to leave us a five star review. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss future episodes. Share with your network and, uh, as I mentioned, if you aren't following FPC on LinkedIn, please do so. Follow 7T Follow ACI World Worldwide as well. Of course, our great guests today. Get out there, click that follow button on all those accounts. Uh, it helps us a ton. And have a great day and we will talk to you in a couple weeks.