Live Podcast - Digital Marketing in a Technical World with AND Digital

Speaker A: Hi everybody. Shane Madden here, host of off the Clock Podcast. Thank you very much for listening in today. We're back with a bang after a quick or short hiatus. So we have Nat Demon, a very special guest, friend and colleague based in London. Nat, um, in a recent uh, TransPerfect, uh, technology user conference conducted a podcast live. Nat, do you mind giving us a bit of background on who you are and um, some context about the podcast?

Speaker B: Awesome. Thanks Shane. Excited to be here. Um, as a bit of background on this live version, I was in Amsterdam for our annual Global Link Next Technology conference and I had a great conversation with one of my clients, his name is Hans and we're speaking about the need for upskilling people in such a technology driven world. So Hans has years of experience in marketing and digital and a big focus of the conference was on AI and um, new technologies. So Hans shared some great insights about the importance of not leaving people behind when technology is continually advancing. And he spoke through how there is very much a digital skill gap which is becoming bigger and bigger, uh, and therefore we need to make sure that people are uh, properly equipped to run with the technology. And I thought it'd be great to share this conversation with a wider audience. So with that I hope everybody listening in takes away just as much as I did and uh, yeah, that you enjoy the conversation.

Speaker C: So welcome to off the Clock, a podcast run by TPT Digital. TPT Digital is a full service vertically integrated digital marketing group within TransPerfect, $1 billion language services and technology solutions market leader. So we have a bit of a different setup for the podcast. Today we are live at TransPerfect's annual Global Link Next Technology conference and we have a wonderful live studio audience with us. So my name is Natalie Denman Davis. I'm a director with TransPerfect and joining me today is Hans Mans head of marketing, technology consultancy and digital. So it's a bit of background on why I asked Hans to join us today. Hans has a lot of experience in marketing and digital and has worked in the space for a number of years. And given the focus of Global Link Next on technology, AI and digital innovation, I really wanted to lean on Hans experience and expertise in AI and really to share with the audience and those listening on how to unlock its full potential. So with that Hans, we can start by maybe you sharing a bit of an introduction with the audience and the listeners today.

Speaker D: Thank you very much. Hope everyone can hear me. Um, so my name is Hans, uh, uh, Smans. I'm originally from the Netherlands but I've lived in the United Kingdom for the last 20 years, more specifically in Scotland. Um, so that might come across in the next half an hour. So if you hear the occasional Scottish word, that's where it's coming from. I've been in marketing for most of my career. I'm glad Natalie didn't specify how many years that would have given away my age. Uh, but let's say it's more than 10. So most of my career has been in business to business marketing. I believe when I started that we as marketeers had maybe a little bit of an isolated view of the world. We spoke to our customers, our, uh, prospects, uh, and then provided them with solutions without maybe necessarily checking with our friends in the IT corner, what was then called it. I think most people and organizations have evolved since then. So my role has evolved over the last 10 years with regards to how I believe marketing in it should be one team. We started that 10 years ago when it was a previous company. It was very successful because we could finally match a lot of the IT insights that we had in the company to our customer needs. Um, so that is hopefully something I can elaborate on. Today, with AI and the technologies that we have at our disposal, that journey is made easier. It gives us a lot more opportunities. But I'll maybe expand on that in the next little while. So thank you for having me.

Speaker C: Pleasure. Thank you for joining us. So at Transperfect, we definitely put a big emphasis on technology and how it can streamline workflows when it comes to managing global content. And that's really been heightened by, uh, AI in the recent years and really made us think about how we can ensure we're continue to drive value for our customers in the duration of the content lifecycle. But I think comes with that a lot of fear. And I know at the conference a lot of people are asking, well, what does AI mean for a human process? Is it going to replace that completely? And I think a lot of us in the room and probably those listening in, will agree that it's not going to replace the human process. It's, as we've heard, it's going to enable us to do more in terms of general technology. I have an interesting anecdote. A few years ago I was working with a company to help manage their global website translations and they had a big presence. They were across four to nine different markets, using internal project managers to copy and paste content out of their content management system into word files and send those to us for translation. And we said to the company at the time, well, we can automate that process completely. Uh, instead of copying and pasting content, we can integrate our technology with the content management system. And this is going to allow them to launch their international websites probably 80% more quickly, so ensuring that that content goes to market much faster. But a few of the key stakeholders actually pushed back on that and said they didn't want to have to lay off their project managers. They didn't feel comfortable with that as a scenario. And we spoke through saying, well, you can repurpose their roles, put them into more valuable tasks and avoid them from doing that copying and pasting. But ultimately they chose to continue going down a more manual route. I could say that was a few years ago and I don't know what that company is doing today. Um, but yeah, I guess from Ann's perspective, how are you ensuring that you maximize and use technology and clearly speak through that with your customers?

Speaker D: I can elaborate on that. And just for clarity, that was not a company that I worked for in the past. I've known Natalie for a long time. But just in case, I'll take one step back with regards to, uh, what we do at Ant Digital, and then we get to the technology piece. So Ant was founded eight years ago by our current founder and CEO because he believes there's a significant lack of digital skills in the world. So we don't believe we have enough people to actually, I guess, enable the technology that we built. So the company has people at its number one priority. So despite the fact that we're a tech consultancy, that's actually our number two priority. Our own people, as well as the people that are customers, are the core of our business. And I think it's slightly different from what other companies do. They do a great job as well. We believe that we have a purpose, uh, as and digital, to educate people, upskill people, not only our own people, but also the people at our customers. And I'll maybe allude, uh, to that a little bit later when we come to the tech side and what we curse see not only in AI, but technology in general from an Ant perspective, we look at it, I guess, from six different angles. So if you can bear with me, we're going to go through those six. Uh, I'll try to keep it short. Uh, the first one is impact and pace. So what we see a lot when we speak to our customers or prospects is there's a need for technology, but often not matched to the business requirements. So this is where we immediately say, let's stop, uh, and let's look at what you actually desired outcomes are and then we'll look at the technology. It shouldn't be the other way around. The technology, even for a tech consultancy as we are, is not the goal. It's an enabler. Right. So this is very important that people understand this. So impact and pace. The pace is important because people want to get to market quickly. Um, I think it's slightly overhyped. I think pace is often an excuse for business processes and decisions that haven't been made in the past. So all of a sudden we're in a rush anyway, so we try to accommodate that. So, uh, impact and pace is the first one. The second angle we look at technology, uh, is equip and empower. So this speaks to the people that are using the technology. So we equip them with the abilities and the skills to actually use the technology that they have and the technology that we built. And the empower piece is making sure that they can run with the technology once we roll off the project. Again, this is a core part of our belief. We work with hybrid teams. So again, Ann doesn't build anything. We build with our customer. The ip, the intellectual property stays with the customer. We don't own anything. We just leave that with the customer. We also want to make sure that the customer's teams are equipped to then run with the technology. I think we all know that most companies have a stack of technology and if you're lucky, you're using 10 to 20% of its capability. Right? So we're trying to push that a little bit further. I'm not saying we're always successful, but that's certainly our aim. So that's the second part. The third part in the way that we look at technology is nurturing, I guess, uh, well, avoiding bias, uh, as we're looking, and nurturing fairness. So AI has got a lot of risks associated to it. It can repeat bad behaviors very quickly, uh, without picking it up. So again, it's a very strong point in the way that we look at technology. It has to be fair and we have to avoid, I guess, negative biases in the tools. And then the last three items, we're looking at being transparent with regards to, you know, how we build, uh, the code that we have, how we build the technology solutions. We're looking at the fifth one with regards to, I guess, protecting privacy and data. I'm going to skip over that because that's a little bit out of my, uh, ream, uh, of knowledge. And the last one, which again relates Back to the people element is that we need to make it accountable and controlled. I think there's a lot of hype around systems controlling other systems. That doesn't fly for us. People are accountable for the, I guess the technology that we built, but also how we manage it. So it needs to be accountable and needs to be controlled. I don't think these are new things in the world but from an ant perspective, uh, we go very digitally uh, through those six points in making sure that our customers I guess on the same journey, uh, as we want them to take. Does that make sense?

Speaker C: Absolutely. And I loved what you said there. With technology is an enabler and it is just that, right? It's allowing people to do more and to become more efficient. And at Transperfect, really a lot of our technology solutions have really been born just through that, allowing us to make a process more efficient. A few examples of that, for example, something so simple like traditionally the way you would request a project would be via email. Instead you can have a portal to quickly drag and drop files, receive the content, have a repository with your projects. And it's also quicker because it kills a lot of the pleasantries with email and it is also a safer platform. I mentioned earlier around content, uh, import export automation. So avoiding the need to manually get content in and out of backend systems with the use of technology. I think another big area of using technology would be around the review process. Content review that seems to be quite painful when it comes to translation. Manually checking translations in a uh, word or an Excel file. And now with technology you can enable a side by side easy methodology so you see the source content alongside the translated content but have a preview of how that content, that translated content text looks in its end context. And technology has allowed that to go a step further. Now with more complex content types such as video with subtitles, it's now possible to see a preview of those for the reviewers and make sure that they adhere to reading speed and character restrictions and so on. So yeah, really enabling people to do more with the time that they have. And I guess then back to that comment. Could you maybe give a few examples to the audience and those listening around how you're utilizing technology?

Speaker D: I have hundreds of examples because this is what we do. I'm going to touch on a couple of different I guess areas. One is around user experience, one is more around system integration and the last one is about I guess sustainability which is an important part of nowadays world and certainly how technology can help with that. When we look at UX Um, UX is clearly, I guess literally at the forefront of what we do from a technology point of view. We're currently working with a provider of, I guess, products, clothes, toys for infants. While we're looking at the ux, we're looking at, I guess how would people interact with the app that they're using now. In most cases they might have an infant on their arm while holding this one. Browsing against the app. So we're trying to do a lot of research with regards to what it means to browse with your left hand. Right, the thumb is here versus the thumb is here on your right hand. Again, we're looking at a lot of research with regards to female hands compared to male hands. We know traditionally most systems have been set up for right handed male hands. That doesn't work anymore. Right. So we have a lot of opportunity there to make these things better. Uh, and it's not rocket science, it's really just making sure that the technology purpose serves the customer rather than just coming up with something that is technologically really advanced. The second example, uh, that I have is we're currently working at the Cabinet Office, uh, in the United Kingdom. They have a grants application, application portal or better. They have 40 of those. Um, so if you want to apply for a grant, especially for businesses, there's 40 different, I guess, portals and websites. We're currently tasked to bring those into one. That's from a conceptual point of view I think everyone can understand. However, it gets very complicated because all the portals are linked to your databases, customer data, etc. Then it gets a little bit nervous for a lot of people when they get mingled up. So again, it's a very tangible project with regards to the technology that we create and the benefit that it will bring, uh, to in this case, UK citizens. The third example for what we do from a technology point of view is we work with a lot of, uh, companies in the food and beverage industry, retail restaurants. Again, most of our business is United Kingdom, so we work with companies like HelloFresh and Gusto, you know, who deliver food to your door or at least packages that you then have to cook in, uh, your own kitchen, especially with Gusto. We've done a lot of work with regards to making sure that the app as well as their website is aligned to the logistics. Right. So they see a less and less wastage with regards to food that they have in their warehouses compared to what people are ordering. So we're not there yet with regards to completely optimizing that. But we've made significant steps with regards to um, the sustainability of their business. And also a, uh, related example is uh, with a restaurant chain called Zeezys. Again in the uk, it's like an Italian restaurant chain. We created an app for them so customers can order through the app even when they're in the restaurant, I guess as part of the sort of COVID um, aftermath. But it gives us a lot of data with regards to not only what people are ordering, but also when they're scrolling over a menu item and not picking it. Right. So again we can optimize that app, uh, with regards to particular items that we might want to sell or that Zizi might want to sell. Uh, and again making sure that the stock in their local kitchens and their sellers is up to date with regards to ordering behaviors.

Speaker C: As you were saying, I was thinking I'm so indecisive when shopping on an app, I would have not thought that would have an impact on the development of the app. So yeah, very interesting. I guess to continue on the topic of AI then. We've said quite a bit of fear around that. Uh, we understand there's excitement but a lot of uncertainty. So what would be the main things in terms of advice and the approach that the audience and listeners have and that you could share with them?

Speaker D: I think there's various, um, aspects with regards to AI. I don't think it's particularly scary. Um, I think there's a little bit of, I guess, concern around that. I think the biggest challenge uh, for us from a tech perspective is that the user intent, uh, is very hard to match with the content that you serve up. Um, and what I mean by that is systems will pick up on terms, uh, on search, et cetera that you're looking for. But that doesn't convey an emotion that the person that that search does, uh, has. Right. So what we're advising our customers is to try to get that one step further with regards to, I guess, understanding what a particular term or what a particular search might be. Search is not the only one only area by the way. I'm just bringing this up as an example. So when we look at what Google is currently doing, so they're looking at a search generative experience that most of you guys will have heard of. Will it replace Google search by AI or the other way around? It doesn't really matter. Um, I think what does matter is that you have an opportunity now as a company to streamline your content. I, uh, know we're talking here a lot about content during the Two days here in Amsterdam. What we are advising our customers is for example on an image. If you're creating new images, make sure it has one purpose, not multiple purposes because systems will not pick that up. You have to have one purpose, one image, the same for the video. You make them bite size, as we call them, you know, 10 seconds, you know, if you've got a really good story to tell, two minutes max. Right. But again, systems will not pick up multiple layers of a video at this moment in time. So it's just giving yourself a little bit of an advantage, you know, as systems will get more intelligent, for lack of a better word. And then the last one of course is copy. Right. So that is again in your world and a very important part and certainly heard a lot of it yesterday. There is a significant risk for systems to generate content. So we continue to advise our customers to write for humans and optimize for search. As a second part, you cannot have systems generate content as Google as well as AI systems will pick up if it's generated by an AI person. So there's a lot of opportunity here for humans to stay involved. But I think that's a really important part from our point of view. I hope that answered the question.

Speaker C: It did, it did. Thank you. So, and digital specifically, in uh, which ways would you say you're leveraging AI most both for the benefit of your internal teams as well as your customers?

Speaker D: Good question. I think internally it's about collaboration. So we currently have 1800 people uh, working for Ant. We call them Andes. That's a little bit quirky but hey ho, you know, I'm sorry, sorry I had to get that in. It's a corporate thing anyhow. All of those people work in different offices, um, across the United Kingdom as well as here in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. We find AI provides us with a lot of opportunity to share, uh, best practices. We have our own incident of course of ChatGPT. We've got loads of other, I guess self generated AI tools because I have 95% of my colleagues, ah, are very bright people, um, who write this kind of technology. So we use it primarily for an internal collaboration, uh, point of view. And of course we then take those learnings to our customers. Uh, that's really, again if they match with the customer intent and customer uh, I guess wishes we're looking to primarily provide them with ways to I guess be more efficient. I think in, in fairness that's a little bit of a cop out. I hear this all the time. We can do things more efficiently. But that kind of means that you're looking to reduce, I guess, people's, I guess, remit. That's not what we want. I think efficiency is the wrong word. I think you can elevate the people at your customer by giving them technology they can work with. Right. So you're talking about, I guess, maybe junior staff or people that started at the beginning of their career. AI can easily get them up to the next level within a quicker time frame, uh, than they might have gotten to if they had to learn these things, I, uh, guess by themselves. So we see a lot of opportunity. If you're looking at, um, for example, call centers where they help, uh, people with challenges, we see a lot of, I guess, increased satisfaction for the people that work there because they now don't have to deal with, I guess, the really basic questions because they've already been answered by a system. So they actually there because they want to help people, but they want to help them with complex issues, not with the mundane issues of have you switched on your computer? Right. So I think there's a lot of opportunity with regards to the way that we engage with our customers and present the technology solutions. Um, so it's not replacing people, but really just elevating their experiences and their knowledge.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Well, thank you, Hans. Really appreciate it. If we could leave the audience and those listening with a couple of key takeaways, what would they be? Just wrap up the conversation, I guess.

Speaker D: One on the tech side is what I've heard here the last couple of days as well. You've got to try, I guess, different technologies, right? Uh, try and retry. I'm not so keen on the phrase of like, fail fast because it seems to be, like, failing seems to be glorified these days. You don't have to fail. Right. You can actually just do it correctly and then optimize it as you go along. I think that's an important part. I think with technology, it advances all the time. So even if your technology works really well, try to look for incremental improvements. Don't, uh, wait till, I guess, toll goes out. The other part, on the people side, uh, and this is really the core, uh, of our business, we have a very strong belief that not only should you enable technology for people's usage, but, uh, you also need to upskill people as the technology advances all the time. Why would you leave your people behind? That doesn't make any sense. So that gap will become bigger and bigger. And we see as a company that the digital skills gap is actually growing despite the fact that not only Ant, uh, digital, but also many of our competitors have jumped onto that bandwagon in a good way, because they want to help as well. Governments are getting more interested to help, I guess, upskill, ah, people, whether that's at school or later on in life, the reality is that technology advances quicker than most human beings do. So we have a very strong belief that you need to upskill your own people. Of course, we're more than happy to help with that. Uh, but that's part of what we do with our customers. Um, so hopefully that makes sense. Um, and it's not scary. You can upskill your people, um, but you got to put a lot of effort in it.

Speaker C: Thank you, Ham. Super insightful. And with that, thank you, everybody, for joining us. And thank you to those listening in.