Leadership Starts With Your Example - Mike Norvell, Florida State University Football, Head Coach

Speaker A: ReliaQuest mental performance coach Darren McMains interviews top performers across multiple industries to unpack their mindset and their strategies that has helped them dominate in their arena. So you can dominate in yours. Welcome to no show dogs, powered by ReliaQuest. Hey, welcome back to the no Show Dogs podcast, powered by ReliaQuest. And today you're in for a great one because Josh Cox and I traveled to Tallahassee, Florida to talk leadership, mindset and performance with Florida State head football coach Mike Norvell. Now, uh, Coach Norvell began his coaching career as a grad assistant at the University of Central Arkansas in 2006. And after several stops along the way, he got his first head coaching job at the University of Memphis in 2015. And at that time of his hire, he was actually the youngest FBS head coach in the nation at uh, just 34 years old. And after four incredible seasons there, he became the head coach at Florida State just after the 2019 season.

Speaker B: And he.

Speaker A: He's been there ever since. Now, as I mentioned before, Josh Cox was with us for this episode, and Cox, man, it was so great having you there to bring your hard earned wisdom from your time spent serving as a United States Navy seal. And for you listeners, if this is your first time tuning in, cox, he spent 27 years as a SEAL, went on 10 deployments. He was a part of SEAL Teams 2, 4, 8, and 10, and he also served as Lieutenant Commander in charge of training for all East Coast SEAL teams. And before we jump into today's episode, just like we always do, we want to give you something just right here at the top. So, Cox, what I'd like you to do, I'd like you to share one thing that you learned from Coach Norvell in this episode that you just don't want our listeners to miss.

Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, dmacc. And it was a great trip and a great interview. But the one thing for you all, uh, when you're listening to this episode, you're going to hear the undertones of Coach Norvell's mindset throughout the entire episode. But the one thing that he said that just stood out to me was that he never held a title or a position too big for a task that was necessary. I'm gonna say that again. He never held a title or a position too big for a task that was necessary. And so when you think about that, like, it doesn't matter what it says on your. On the front of your T shirt, on the front of your desk, it's how you show up when you see something, you say something. When you see something, you do something about it. No matter if you're day one or you're at the top of the organization and it really shown through in the. In the entire episode.

Speaker A: That's great, man. Absolutely, man. I'm telling you, listeners are in for a treat.

Speaker B: Uh, his.

Speaker A: His passion, man, comes through just so, so much fun. Uh, but with, uh, that. Cox, thanks for sharing that. And let's just jump into this conversation now with Florida State head football coach Mike Norvell. Hey, we're in beautiful Tallahassee, Florida, in this unbelievable facility, the Dunlap Football center here on Florida State's campus. And we are joined today by the head football coach of the Florida State Seminoles, Mike Norvell. Coach, welcome to no Show Dogs.

Speaker C: No, man, I'm grateful to, uh, be a part of it. And, uh, welcome. And, uh, definitely glad to have you guys here, for sure.

Speaker A: I mean, this facility, by the way, I mean, it is like, I know, Cox, you've been to a few NFL places, I've been a few NFL places, and, like, this is. I mean, this trumps them all.

Speaker B: This is unbelievable. It's. It's very, very nice.

Speaker A: Well, let's jump into this, man. I'm excited to have this conversation with you talking all leadership culture, uh, because when I think about culture and what you've built here, man, it is like. It's a thing. You feel it when you walk in this building. It's. It's a thing. You feel it when you're in a meeting room and you're with the guys. You see how much everybody loves each other and how much they pull for one another. And Cox and I, we were talking about this. It just like, you know, my son's going to college. How old's Colton?

Speaker B: What is he, six months?

Speaker A: Six months. He's got time, you know, so. But. But you're always looking for a leader. You're looking for a coach that you're like, I want my son to be around that guy, you know, and so that's why I'm so excited to have this conversation with you, because you're one of those guys. And so. But let's talk first about your journey to this place. Start at University of Central Arkansas, by the way, Both from Arkansas. So we both know we're. We're. We're aware of where Conway is, you know, but you go from UCA to Tulsa to Pittsburgh, Arizona State, first head coaching job at Memphis, and now obviously here at Florida state, joining in 2020. So walk us through though, your leadership philosophy, things you've learned about leadership. But I want to know two things. One is what are things that have remained the same? Like, hey, I believe this. This was, you know, come hell or high water, this is how I run things. And then what are things that have changed in your journey since you've got here?

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I think throughout the journey, you know, as a, as a player, as a young coach, as somebody that, uh, I've been fortunate to be able to ascend very quickly, you know, throughout my coaching career. But, you know, for me, it really all came back just the willingness to, uh, to be an example. And I know it's a simple, like, statement, but like, I, uh, think in today's age, you know, there's. There's so much, so much focus, you know, on, you know, people fear failure, they fear judgment. You know, they fear, you know, putting themselves out there and, and you know, as a leader, as somebody that just wants to insp others, you know, it's, it's the willingness just to step up and step out to live, you know, what, whatever the expectation is, you know, whatever it is that you want to be able to impact to somebody else. And I, uh, remember when I was a player, you know, I would have coaches that mean, you know, don't just talk about it, go show it, you know, be action based, you know, because, because ultimately, you know, you can say all the right words, but if you're not willing to put the action in front of it, then nobody's really going to listen. And if you. And as I, as I go about whether I'm talking to coaches, players, man, you know, be willing to step up, step out and go be the example for whatever it is that, that you do believe in, whatever it is that you want to get accomplished, whatever, however you want to be able to rally the, the people around you, whether it's in a game, whether it's in a practice, whether it's in a meeting room, uh, whether it's in life. And you know, fear is real. You know, we can all sit there and say, well, no, I'm, I'm tough on this. No, fear is a part of it. And you. Fear can be a gift, right? I tell guys, man, that you. The gift of fear, right, Is preparation, right? And if you're willing, if you're willing to, to be that example and, and how you prepare, how you work the mindset which you bring, and then the, the willingness to step up and just, just make that choice, um, you know, that's something that's really carried me throughout this journey. And, you know, I've been fortunate to be around a lot of great people, whether it's teammates, whether it's coaches, uh, people that I've got to work with, players that I've gotten, got the opportunity to be able to coach. And, you know, for me, it's just, can I show up and be that for them? Because every day we get to make the choice. And, you know, it's one of the things that, you know, as I've. As I've kind of, you know, grown into to better titles, you know, becoming a head coach and becoming, uh, you know, obviously be able to come here to Florida State. You know, it's one of the things that I'll bring into, uh, each day is, you know, I always start with a good morning. And it doesn't matter if it's 6 o', clock, 6am or 8pm when I stand in front of a group of young men, when I stand in front of a staff, if we're having a meeting, I'm gonna start with good morning.

Speaker A: I can vouch for that, by the way, because I jumped in a meeting and it was 6am and I'm just sitting there like, all right, we're getting ready to start.

Speaker C: He comes, he goes, good morning.

Speaker A: And I was like, everybody goes, good morning. Juice me right away. Yeah.

Speaker C: And it really, it goes back to, you know, every day when you wake up, right, you have a choice. Yeah, you have a choice for what you're doing now. All the circumstances in your life, man, you might be riding high. You might be. You may be, you know, going through challenges and all the, all the adversity, but, you know, you get the choice to make it a good morning. And, you know, as I sit there and I go about it, it still kind of goes back to the, the willingness to be the example, but it's also, you know, the willingness to make the choice for all the things that you have going on. I mean, you might be sitting, sitting somewhere, 8 o', clock, you know, 8 o' clock at night. But it's a, um, bit when you find yourself in a situation, you get to make the choice for what you want to be. And the willingness to be that example, right? The willingness to be able to, like I said, step up and step out for other people. I mean, that's. That's where the actions. That's. That's where. That's what's going to carry you. And, uh, you know, that's something I just Try to remind myself every day, man, can I, can I make that choice? Can I be willing to be what somebody might need? I don't know all the things that that individual is going through, but, man, if I'm willing to step up and be that, and as I've had the opportunity and I'm being here in such a wonderful program, understanding that responsibility too, right? And, you know, you understand the importance of every decision, you know, you know, all the things that, that you're tasked with, you know, within a job or a responsibility, you know, understand who you, uh, you know, the importance of, of, of every action, the importance of, of every decision that you make. And, you know, don't ever, uh. Everyone is the one, right? Every. Everything that you're doing is. I tell players, man, you never know what is going to be the one play in a game that's going to be the difference maker. Well, you don't know what the one decision that you're going to make within the day that's going to possibly change somebody's life. So just put everything you have into it. And so, you know, as a leader, that's something that I try to carry and, and is. I've tried to build on that. But you, as you continue to, to ascend into, you know, you know, different places and incredible responsibilities. Me, it still comes down to those little things that, that you're willing to do. Right. That can help provide for others.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Wow, man, it's, it's, it's fantastic. So many places I want to go. I definitely. I, uh, want to talk about culture, though, because everybody talks about. But I know when you ask different coaches, different leaders, sometimes they define it differently. And so I'm curious for you, like, one, how. How do you define it? And then two, how do you intentionally build it? Because I know leaders are listening to this and they're, they're thinking, you know, how. How has coach done it? How. How has he done it here? How did he do it in Memphis? Or how has he seen it done at other places? And so how. First, how would you define it? And then how do you go about building it?

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, for me, I think about, you know, it's the, the character and the standards of what you're willing to emphasize, what you're willing to, uh, you, uh, to, to hold each other accountable to, especially when nobody's looking. Because it's one thing, you know, anybody can put on a show when they know they're on a grand stage, but when you have a real culture, it is what you're, you know, the things, the actions that you're going to affirm, the things you're going to correct, the things that you're going to push and inspire others to that truly showcase that character and the standards that are important to you and you know, they're going to be good cultures and be bad cultures. Well, if, if you were going to, uh, you encourage, right. You know, a, a, you know, bad, you know, bad character or a bad standard, well, then you're going to have a bad culture. Yeah. Right. On the flip side of it, if you're willing to, to affirm, you know, a positive action, if you're, if you're willing to, to affirm, encourage, you know, uh, to hold accountable, you know, a, um, a standard that, you know, no matter where you are, no matter who's watching, right, that, that is going to be at an elite level, then you're going to have an elite culture. And so for me, the things that you're willing to do when it comes to who you are, right? To the standard you're willing to live to, or the standard of what you're, you want your organization to be, I mean, that's, that's defining the culture of what, uh, of what you're going to be around.

Speaker A: Cox, you know a few things about standards.

Speaker C: Yeah, I just.

Speaker B: Well, I love the answer. And when we talk about performance, my favorite definition of performance is the execution of a task or duty to a standard in the face of resistance. Resistance is anything that's preventing you from meeting that standard. Um, and so you're talking about standards, but what are some of the standards at Florida State? You know, what are, what are some of your non negotiables, the standards that you have here that are key to performance for you and the culture and your team?

Speaker C: Well, if you ask any player here, you know, our standard is excellence. And you know, that is, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a singular word. But you know, for us, you know, excellence to me is truly comes down to your best. Right? And so when I sit there and I say, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, are you willing to push yourself to your best? Everybody's at a different spot in the journey, right? And you know, ultimately, uh, you know, we all have different strengths, we all have different weaknesses, but, but we are in control of ourselves. And so when we talk about a standard, right, that's what I want. That's what I want within, within our culture is that, man, we are going to Affirm, we're going to push, we're going to, you know, we're going to encourage, you know, hitting that standard of excellence and all things that we're doing and, and where we want that to show up, right. When you talk about the values you talked about the true core, right? It's, it's service, it's sacrifice and it's respect. That's what I want it to look like. That's what I want it to be because, ah, at the end of the day, you know, if, if each and every one of us can make the choice to go be the best that we can possibly be, right? And we can up when we can challenge ourselves to that standard, if we can challenge each other to that standard, if we can pick each other up to that standard. Right? And to be able to have a focus of man serving each other. You're giving of my given, of ourselves, given of myself to others to help them be all that they can. Right? And you know, I tell, I tell our players, I tell our coaches, my number one job, my number one job at Florida State is to serve our players, right? To serve our coaches, to serve this university, right. To serve all of our fan base. And you know how I do that is I give of myself for it, for everybody, right? To be the best that they can be. And I do that by providing with structure, right. Upholding the standard and holding people accountable. Right. To the things that we say are important. You're continuing to build that, that, uh, that, um, that, you know, the structure of all the things that we're doing. And so that's something that's really important to me when it comes to those values of serving, of sacrifice. And then, you know, that respect is so important because respect is, you know, that that's something that has to be earned. You know, I can't ask somebody to respect me. I've got to go, I've got to earn their respect. And that's what I want for this program. That's what I want for the individuals that are within it. Sure. That, uh, that we're being respectable in all the things that we're doing.

Speaker B: So one of the things, you know, I have kind of personal seal team scar tissue on this is with standards is they can, they can sometimes be just words if you don't have systems of accountability to back them up.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And you already spoke about one of my favorite ones, which is M. You know, as a leader, you got to model the behavior you want to see first. That's a system of accountability Right there. Like I'm going to live, live it the way that I talk about it and what, the way that I say these words. But for you, what are some of the actual like where the rubber meets the road, tangible systems of accountability that you guys use here to highlight good accountability. When you see people doing the right thing and when someone's maybe stepping out of line and you're like, hey, we've got a, we don't do it like that here or whatever, like however you handle it, what do you, what are some of those things?

Speaker C: Obviously there's so many different, you know, scopes of sure. Within this job. I mean, you know, you got, I uh, get a chance to be around, you know, 105 student athletes. So when it comes to, you know, what these guys are doing in the classroom, what they're doing on the field, you know, the, the growth that they're having is, is you know, within their personal lives and so as well as the coaches and all, all them. But I think you have to have measured, you know, a measured focus where you are great, you know, one, you have an opportunity to grade it, you know. And so when you're on the field, you know, we help hold each other accountable because you know there's, there's certain tasks of, of what we want to see. And like, you know, when you're on the field, I uh, can tell you our grading skill is man, I want to, we're going to grade you your effort, right? We're going to grade your technique and we're going to grade your performance, right. And you know, I've never been around a perfect individual. I've never seen a perfect game. You know, there's going to be good and bad, but it's a, it's a willing to be able to measure the things that you want to get accomplished and then to be able to provide that feedback, you know, as. So we'll do that on the field and you know, we'll have our, our, our accountability. If, if our effort is not where it needs to be, man, there's going to be accountability to it. If our, if our discipline or technique, if it's not where it's going to be like, you know, if we have a focus penalty in a game, which, you know that's something that's self inflicted, a false start, you know, a personal foul penalty, you know, we're going to run perfect tens on Tuesday and our football team knows it. I'll show them, I'll show them on, on Sunday. We come out of the game. And man, if they see there's, there's three focus penalties, well, we know we got three perfect tens. That's every player on the team, right. Has to execute a perfect rep. When you're dealing with 105 people, it's hard sometimes that can go for a little bit of time. But I got you. It's the account.

Speaker B: So a perfect 10 then is. Everybody has to do a perfect rep. 100 together.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker C: And if anybody, right. Has the slightest of mistake.

Speaker B: Oh, I love that.

Speaker C: Right. They've got to go back in and we have to get it.

Speaker B: Hit the reset button. Yeah.

Speaker C: And that's, and that's one of the things, like as you sit there, it's the, you know, when you talk about the accountability, what one are you measuring, you know, and, and you know, when it's, when it's done right, you affirm it. You know, we'll have, uh, we'll have times where after a game or after a practice or scrimmage, uh, we'll, we'll circle it up by position groups and we'll always chart loafs if there's, if there's a play where maybe it's not, it's not the best, right? And you chart that as a loaf. You know, we'll stand in the, we'll circle it up and we'll have a player come in and, hey, my name's Mike Norvell and I let the team down three times. 1. I'm taking ownership from my action, right? Because I think that's one of the biggest things is, uh, you, are you surrounding yourself with people are going to help. Help you own the things that you do, right? And to be able to, to kind of reinforce, you know, not only is it for me, but I'm also. All of you are relying on, on my performance. But, you know, we'll have accountability for that. But then on the flip side of it, you know, if I, if I come in, Mike Norville, I let the team down zero times. Right. Well, we're going to affirm that with a clap. We're going to, we're going to encourage that. We're going to. I think that's something that's so big when it comes to the accountability part of it. Um, you know, when you, when you're dealing with the classroom, you know, we've been fortunate. You know, I've been here going into my seventh year, and I think the last five years, every year, we've had the best ever team GPA. We've, we've got, we have, we're at 3.26 this last semester. You know, we have 80 guys on our team that are over a 3.0. Uh, because we have guys that are challenging themselves right in the classroom to, to that standard. Well, that doesn't happen just by, by hoping that it does. We have departmental meetings every single week where we get a chance to go in and you know, hey, where are guys at? Are they going to class? Are they doing the things necessary? You know, are they, are they taking care of the business? Right, that's going to allow them to be the best they can be? Well, um, if, if there's a misstep, right. One we're able to help correct that. And you know, we've got our, our, if a guy is missing a class, we remind them right in a variety to help hold them accountable to the importance of just, you know, being present and being all that you can. But on the flip side of it, when, when you sit there and you have guys that are achieving at an, at an elite level, well, you have, uh, you have an army of people that are there to affirm the action too. And you know, you'll see our football team when they go out there on, on Saturdays and you know, guys over a 3.0, we put a Seminole Scholar patch on their jersey. Right? And you know, people think accountability, you know, it's, oh, well, this is how I, this is how I'm going to correct you when you're wrong. Yeah, accountability. Celebrating your right too.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker C: And so for me that's something that, you know, when you put that patch in your jersey on their jersey, man, it's, hey man, you've done the work. You're more than just a jersey number. You're more than a position man. You're somebody that's using your mind and putting in the work in other places. And so, um, you know, that's, those are a couple of areas. And then, you know, one of the things we, we've instituted around here is, you know, we'll do call ups, right? We get up after practice, you know, throughout, or maybe in a meeting if a guy gets an opportunity or sees, uh, a teammate, right, Whether it's good or whether it's bad. But you know, just to be able to speak, you know, and, and affirm what they've seen, you know, we'll, we'll give guys opportunities to, to call up, right. You know, their, their teammates. And you had it the other day, you know, a young man was, you know, we had a player that Went through and was picking up some extra trash in a locker room. He said, coach, uh, I got a call up and you know, those are the things that I love because it's, it's not only are we celebrating a positive action, but we're also. Somebody left the trash.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker C: And so there's an accountability to those individuals. Man, let me, let me take care of mine because I know the guys around me. So I just think it's the measured approach of, of, you know, what is, what are the expectations? What do you, what do you desire? And you got to be able to, to measure that in, in whatever it is that you're doing. But then, you know, you celebrate the good and you know, obviously you have to have, you know, modes of correction when, when things are not to the, to the standard of what we want.

Speaker B: One more question on this because you mentioned it about the culture with standards was character. And so my question to you is when does talent trump character?

Speaker C: Um, you know, in, in this game and it just, in all aspects of life, I mean there, there has to be a certain level of talent that I think is necessary. Um, you know, you, in all reality, if you run a six second of your 40 yard dash, you're probably not going to come play receiver Florida State. Right, but so that's, so I don't

Speaker B: have a future here.

Speaker C: Well, okay, yeah, right. But if you, there's a certain level of talent, um, that, that is necessary. Right, but you can never, you can never sacrifice the character for what the, the talent is because ultimately there's, there's a lot of very talented people out there. Right. They're not doing what they're, what they're capable of doing because of, you know, a lapse in the character. And, and for me it's just, um, you know, you got to find guys that are, are talented enough for what you desire, but then it's got to be led through, through the character of who they are. The mindset, the mentality, you know, obviously the mentality. Right. The heart, the passion, you know, the, the willingness to sacrifice to achieve and then you know, uh, you, what are they going to do for all those that are around? So I would say, uh, you know, there has to be a certain level of talent, but it has to be led from the, with, with the character of who somebody is. Uh, that's going to make the difference.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's something we, we learned the hard way too earlier in my career and we now have, it's taught when guys are going through training the seal teams where we have the, like, trust and performance scale, XY axis. And we want the. We want the guy that's up here that's high trust, high performer. But what we found over time is we're better off with the, uh, like the B level performance, but the A trust. Trust leading the character. Right. Yeah. Then the. Then the A performance with the B or C or D trust. Because there's. You're gonna. It. You might be good for a little bit, but overall, like, in the long run, you're gonna get burned, you know, and that's a hard lesson learned for people.

Speaker C: No, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker A: And I would say, like,

Speaker B: I mean,

Speaker A: we all have some gray in our hair and in our beards up here, so we've all lived these, you know, Because I know we've had the same experiences in baseball.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Where you. Man, you see a swing or you see the way somebody runs and you're like, shoot, man. I remember we made this mistake. I won't say the club I was with, but it's like, we thought our culture was so good it could absorb bad character like that. I, like, I was in the meeting when we said it. We thought, man, we need speed. We need a little bit of power over here and whatever. It's like, we know they're not great guys, but our culture is good enough. We can absorb it. And we did not. Not even close. You know, and it was like. And it was a. And we all knew better. You know what I mean? But it's like sometimes when you look

Speaker B: back on it, you're like, yeah, you shouldn't.

Speaker A: I know. Like, you know, but sometimes talent is so sexy, and then you get just caught up in that, and it's just like. And again, man, it's like you need to be burned. Uh, our hope is that you hear this and you don't have to be, but it's like one of those things. But when you get burned with it, it's like, never again. Well, you never again.

Speaker C: If you walk down in the locker room, there's a. There's a sign. You know, we talk about identity of. Of, you know, when we go out there and play, what do we want to look like? And for us, it's play smart, then play fast. That allows you to play physical. And then you've got. Then you got to be willing and desperate to finish. But the number one thing is play smart. Right? And what is smart football player is meant awareness, discipline. Right. You know, you understanding the situations, the concepts of communication, all those things go into playing smart. Because uh, I can tell you you can run a 4 4, but if you're running the wrong direction, you're pretty dang slow. Yeah, right, right. And because it doesn't matter, you can bench press, you know, £400, but if you're pushing the wrong way, then you're not benefiting anybody.

Speaker B: Yeah, right.

Speaker C: You're actually making the problems, you're, you're compounding the problems of what you're. So it still comes back to, you know, and uh, as you go to the character of it, you're finding that people that truly value and are aware of their situation, they obviously are passionate what they do, they, they're willing to push that standard of their best. I mean because once again there's nobody out here that's running around perfect. Right. And so how you respond in situations, you know, what you're willing to do, uh, to be all that you can and to impact those around you. That's, that's why like I said, whether it's sometimes it is a B level talent and that's talented enough, but when you have that A level character, man, that's going to continue to grow, that's going to continue to ascend and um, and you'll be able to accomplish.

Speaker A: No Show Dogs is brought to you by Relyquest, the global leader in AI cybersecurity. RelyQuest helps enterprise cybersecurity teams contain threats in minutes. With its AgentIC AI Security Operations Platform, Gray Matter, Relyquest makes security possible for the most trusted enterprise brands in the world. Learn more@uh, reliaquest.com that's good. I want to talk about building your staff because that's obviously a big part of culture too. I know a lot of leaders are listening to this and they're thinking about how can they hire the right staff. So when you think about bringing in your assistant coaches and, and shoot, even performance team and other members that you know are going to impact the culture, what do you look for beyond X's and O's? Right. Obviously competence and you know, game IQ is a thing. But, but what are you looking for beyond that?

Speaker C: Two, two non negotiables for me. Number one, they got to be relationship based. They got to be led from the heart. I mean that is the number one thing. And as I'm sitting there looking, it doesn't matter who I'm looking to hire. That's, that's where I do my work. You know, I try to find all the connecting pieces, man. What is, what's in the chest, right? What is the. What Is the passion, is it about people or is it about just a task? Because there's plenty of people that love the X's and O's, they love the, the game, they love doing this, this certain component. But if it's not about the people, if they, if they don't value the relationships, they don't value the, you know, you know, making an impact on others, man, they're not, they're not going to work here, they're not going to be a part of this because it's so, it's so critical that you have to find people, you have to find individuals that, that want to make an impact, that want to be surrounded with like minded individuals that are willing to pour in to others. Right? And so you know, first it's got to be the heart, you know, and that and those relationships. And second, men got to love the work. I mean it still comes down to the work. And you know, uh, as you sit there and you know we get one shot at going through this life and you know, are you willing, are you willing to pour everything that you have into the opportunity that you've been given? And you know, we're all blessed to be where we are. And you know what, you know, I think back to my journey and, and uh, you know, I've been fortunate. You know, very few other. I'm sitting with, with a couple guys that know where Conway, Arkansas, you know what. But I remember, I remember when I got the opportunity to, to go and, and to write my story there and to be around some incredible people that were just willing to pour into me to you know, each step along the way. Uh, you know, I still. It's easy when you, when you get to come to Florida State and it's. Oh man, it's incredible. Great place. Yes. But m. I walk around this stadium and with just a mindset and a heart of gratitude for opportunity. Well, I was doing the same thing whether I was at. It was at the University of Tulsa and all those places along the way. It's, it's about being grateful for who and what you get to do and are then and it's just the willingness to work. Right. And are you willing as we talk about the leadership and the example. Well men is your, does your work right and what you do, is that going to inspire others? Is that going to be able to impact others? And so if you, for me and the people, I'm iron. It's got to be about the relationship, the hearts that they have. And then obviously man do they, they have A true passion to be able to work and pour everything they have in the opportunity they've been given.

Speaker B: That's great.

Speaker A: That's so good, man. You know, I mean, leaders create great leaders, right? We know this. Um, when you think about some of the great coaches you've developed along the way, I mean, you think about, uh, Dan Lanning, Kenny Dillingham, Ryan Silverfield, Pete limbo are just four. That. And we can go on, I think 45, maybe, is what I saw on the website of how many other coaches you developed around, uh, along the way. And you mentioned people intentionally pouring into you. Like, do you think when it comes to developing future head coaches or future great leaders, is it something that you are intentionally doing, or is it a byproduct of just building a great program and culture, and then the. The ones that want to do it kind of just rise to the top?

Speaker C: I would say both.

Speaker A: Okay, but.

Speaker C: All right. I'm intentional about it because any. Anybody that I. That I hire, that I work with, right, Always ask them, what do you want to be? What do you want to achieve? What are your goals? What are your desires? Right? Because part of going back to our accountability, part of my job as. As a. As a leader, right? As I, uh, talked about service, well, it's. I serve. I serve the people I work with by holding them accountable to being what they say they want to be, right? And so if I. If. When I ask somebody, what do you want to be in my co. I want to be a head coach. Are you sure? All right, well, I'm gonna hold you to that. I want every day for you to come in here, man, for you to approach the job that you have as if you are the head coach. Yes, you have tasks, you have responsibilities, you have all the things. But I'm, uh. But I want you to go be the best that you can. Best that you can be within the job that you have, but be preparing for the one that you desire. And, you know, I got that. That advice when I was a graduate assistant at University of Tulsa, and I remember Todd Graham was our head coach, and I was sitting on the back wall. It might have been my first day. It was really within the first week. Uh, I'd almost, you know, um, you know, positives within that first amount of time. And I remember him saying something, he goes, you know, it's so very hard, right, to find nine coaches that will approach every day, right, as if they are the head coach. And I remember writing that down on old, you know, yellow notepad. MHM I said, you know what? I want to do this. And even though I was a graduate assistant and I was working on being the best coffee runner in the world, I mean, that was. That was basically my task at that time. But everything that I had to do, right, I just tried to make it as this is the most important job for this program to be successful. And, you know, yes, I desired to be a position coach, so I tried to make sure that, meaning all things I was doing, I was. I was preparing as if I was a position coach. And I was fortunate to, you know, become a position Coach, a Division 1 position coach very early in my career. And then I knew I wanted to be a coordinator. So even though I was a, uh, I was a position coach, I tried to prepare as if I was a coordinator when it came to a game, man, I did all the things that were within my task, but then I was preparing if I had to call it. And then when I was 14, I became the youngest offensive coordinator in the country at Arizona State. And you know what? I started preparing right as if I was the head coach. And in all the things that I did in offensive court as an offensive coordinator, man, you know, it. I, uh, I. Everything I could be to be the best I. That I. That I. I could right in that moment. But I was also getting ready for what was at and you know, to be able to try to. To support the people that I'm with. But still, when I got the call to University of Memphis to become the youngest head coach in college football. Right. Well, um, I was, I was prepared because I'd already been doing the job. And as I tell. As I'm around coaches, I want to help them to where they desire to go by giving them the. The. The task, the responsibilities, the things to help them grow while they're in their current position, but preparing them for all the things that are ahead. And as you mentioned, that list of coaches, yeah, uh, I've been fortunate. I've been around great people. So it is a byproduct of being around great people that embrace the opportunity and also embrace the challenge to go be more. And so it's something I do take a great deal of, uh, your pride in helping people do, because I think that's something that leaders should, but it's also something that, man, you see, you know, the elevation of individuals because they embrace that challenge too.

Speaker B: I love that. And here's why. And it's a great lesson for leaders. Listening to this, from what you said, is we talk a lot about in leadership you have to be able to delegate. You know, you got to delegate, you got hand tasks down and it's a tough spot to be in as a leader, specifically for young leaders. Because if all you do is delegate, you can be very quickly thought of as the person that doesn't really do anything around here. You just delegate everything else. But what it's on you as a leader to do is to turn delegation into development opportunities. And the only difference between a delegated task and a development opportunity is the context provided by the boss, the leader, the head coach. It's like giving people those opportunities and telling you like, hey, this is how I want you to prepare. And now I know that that's how what you want. I'm gonna hold you to that. Now we've turned just delegating certain things into full on development opportunities with like a plan and a goal in mind. And it's such a, that's such a valuable way to think about it. I appreciate, I really appreciate that answer.

Speaker C: And you never, you know, I remember when I was a young graduate assistant, you never know when you're going to be asked your opinion. Right. And I remember, you know, all the busy work that I was given, all the, all the tasks that you had to go do when our staff was meeting, man, I wanted to make sure that I was always sitting in that room, that I was listening, that I was receiving the information as if I was responsible for a position. Because if I was ever asked a question, I wanted to have an educated response. Mhm. Because you know, sometimes you're only asked once.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And if you, and if you have not been present in that, if you haven't prepared to a way to, to be able to, you know, bring value. You know, because when you get asked once and you bring value, you might get asked again.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And that's, I really think that's something that, you know, it goes back to when you're, when you're a part of a team or an organization and you do everything that you, that you can to be the best at your job. The tasks that are, that are tasker there. But then be willing to do just a little bit more and it might be 30 minutes extra, it might be, you know, a little extra study, it might be a sacrifice here or there, but when the opportunity presents itself, you'll be ready because you've been preparing. And uh, that's something I always try to pass along to the people that I get to work with.

Speaker A: That's great. That's great. I know we're on the backside of this and I want to get to talking about you, just you, how you manage yourself as a leader, how do you take care of yourself, how do you show up week to week. And specifically one thing and I, uh, think we all know is just the volatility of sports in general. One, but specifically college football feels like the highs are really high and the lows can be really low. And. But you as the head coach, as the leader, you can't ride that. And so what keeps you grounded or who keeps you grounded? What keeps you from not getting too high and not getting too low in this world?

Speaker C: Well, uh, I mean, you know, I have an incredible family. I've been married, my wife, uh, Maria for 21 years. I mean, uh, you know, I've got a 12 year old daughter and I mean they are, they are everything to me. Um, but you know, for me personally, you know, it comes to, comes to a structure of how I try to live, of the things that I try to do to make sure that I'm pouring that, that I'm pouring, you know, the truth into my life. And you know, I wake up every morning and, and I start my day a certain way and I get in the word. I try to try to bring, speak, bring victory into my mind, into my heart and my spirit. To know that man, you know, you're going to see the ups and downs of life and there's going to be a lot of different things that, that are thrown at you. But you know, you have to be grounded, you got to be in, you've got to control the things that you can control, be willing to go, step forward through it, all right? Because you know, I don't, I don't want it to be a smooth journey because, you know, nobody uh, ever talks about the smooth journeys, right? It's about the response of what it is. And you know, and you, when you have success, well, then it's the, the constant push to sustain success. When you experience failure, well, it's a response to be able to overcome the adversity. And so it's about, you know, you know, for me, getting up and starting my certain, my day a certain way. And you know, that's something I've been very consistent, uh, you know, throughout, you know, about the last seven years of my life. I made a choice that this is what I was going to do and this is what I wanted to be. And you know, you take care of your mind, your body, you know, your soul and all things that, what you need to Provide as a leader, man, it is. It is the truest of you and that you're not you, because people are always looking. And, you know, as I talk about that example, well, I can sit there and talk about how I want people to respond, but if they watch me and I'm up and down and just going by whatever the circumstances, well, then, then it's just talk. But if they see somebody that is, that is guided, that, you know, never too high, never too low, but is continuing to work to get better, to learning from the. Learning for the mistakes that are made, right. To building off the successes that you find, that's something that. That is a driving force to me and, you know, for my family and obviously for the people that I get to work with. So, uh, it truly is trying to have a structure in my life to one, pour in, uh, to my mind, to my. My body, to my soul, in all things, and then just make sure that, you know, I can be that for others on a consistent basis with. With, you know, a good morning from time to time. That.

Speaker A: That's. That's great, man. That is true, man. Like, if you, if you can win your morning and do it consistently, right, that's how that sets you up for the day. Uh, you mentioned responding to adversities, failures. Is there something that only adversity could teach you? And what have you learned from that? Like, you know, I mean, you've obvious had tons of success in your career. You've had challenging times too. And so. But is there something that you're like, man, that I didn't like going through that. But here's the, here's what that taught me that I know winning could have never taught me.

Speaker C: No, it's, uh. I, I think the, the greatest steps of advancement in my life have come through some of the greatest failures that I've. That I've had to go through. And, um, you know, truly showcases your identity. And, you know, I'm. I'm a, you know, as people go, well, what, what's your coaching philosophy? I'm a. You can coach. Like, I'm a youcan coach. I try to surround myself with people that I absolutely believe in, all the things that they can do. And then when adversity shows up, up when adversity shows up in my life, right? And the willingness to stay the course, to stay focused, to just continue to push to be just a, uh, little bit better each and every day, you get to prove to yourself and you get to show others all the things that you can do and I, I am, I'm grateful for, for challenge, you know, And I mean, I don't. It doesn't feel good. Nobody likes it. But you know what? I'm grateful for it because the lessons that are learned, right, the confidence that's built right through the things that you just prove that you can do, right, by the, the willingness to give all that you have. And I think that's one of the greatest, one of the greatest rewards that you get going through life. And you know, that's where, um, you know, if every, if it's 70 degrees and sunny, man, everybody can have a great attitude and everybody can feel good about it. But man, when you face the storms of life, right, and you, and you see truly just what you have in here and what you have in here, and that's. That, that's going to inspire others and you got a chance to make an incredible impact, you know, on, on your own journey to success. But, but also to those that you get to do it with.

Speaker B: That's good, man. That's what we say. Everybody, everybody wants to be a frogman on Fridays. You know, Friday by 5 o'.

Speaker A: Clock.

Speaker B: I got a question, kind of final question for me, coaches. You know, if I got a son and he meets the, the standard of, of character and talent, why should I turn him over to you in this program? What's the one thing that you would want me to know about you and your program here? The one thing? Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, you know, if, if your son comes to, to play for me, you know, he's going to get it all and we're going to expect it, all, right? You come here. It's going to be the all inclusive experience, right? Because I don't want, I don't want somebody just to come here, right, and to just be a Jersey number. I don't want somebody to come here and just be a position player, right? It's as we talked about, mind, body and soul, man. I want, I want it all, right? We get one shot to live this life and to be challenged, to be pushed, to be inspired, to be picked up right in, in all things, right? To help, to help these young men know, right, all that they can be, right through the good and through the bad. But I, I don't want it just in one aspect because, you know, I don't want you to go be an all American on the field and be substandard in every other area because that, that will never be able to sustain success. Yeah, right. It's about you helping build the holistic approach and as we tell guys, I mean you come here for the all inclusive experience and you know what, there's, there's plenty of easier places you can go. There's plenty of things that you can do that that's not going to challenge you. But I like finding the things that, that uh, that guys think are the most challenging to them and just to continue to point, point out and show them all that they can be and the success they can have if they're just willing to, to push forward, being all, being their best, you know, on a daily basis. And so, uh, you know, that's, that's, that's my heart. Right. And that's what I want. I uh, want to see, I want to see young men come and play for me. And you know, I tell them I, I usually have one goal with them that 20 years from now I want to be texting back and forth with them. Right. Because for that to happen, there's got to be a relationship. Yeah. Right. There's got to be the relationship that's developed with trust and all the different experiences. But the other part of it, got to have their success because in reality, if they come and play for me and 20 years from now they're not successful, they're not going to be wanting to text me and I'm probably not going to be wanting to text them either. But I want them to have success in everything that they do as a father, as a husband, as, you know, just a, ah, person within this, within this community, just uh, to be in everything that they can be.

Speaker B: I appreciate that. That's a great answer.

Speaker A: Yeah. Tell Colton to get to work.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, uh, 18 years.

Speaker C: Yes, sir.

Speaker A: Hey, Coach. That brings us to our final question. And we ask guests that we've had on no Show Dogs podcast the same question. And it's really the ethos of what it means to be a no show dog. Right. As, as we talk about, it's, it's about doing the work, as you mentioned. Right. It's about, it's about the action. It's about being a hunting dog, not a show dog. And so with that in mind, when you reflect on your career up to this point, what do you think have been some of the things that you've been willing to do that maybe others haven't that has allowed you to have the success you've had up to this point?

Speaker C: You know, I think it's, uh, no matter, no matter what title I've had, um, as I mentioned earlier, whether it was at the very bottom or at the very top, uh, it's, it's been the willingness to show up and, and do whatever the, whatever the task was right there. I was never, I was never in a position that was too big for a task that was, that was necessary. Right. Um, you know, I remember, you know, when I first became a head coach, I asked a gentleman, I said, you know, he was, this was a CEO, very successful multi billion dollar company. And I said, you know, when you're, when you're developing leaders, you know, what are the things that you do to help bring them along? And he said, you know, well, one, one of it, uh, I haven't shadow me for, for about two weeks where they just shadow me and when I come in a program, they come and chat because I figure if they will see all the things that I, that, that are, that I do, they're going to know what's important. And as I, and whether if I'm walking down the hall and I see a piece of trash, I got a great title as a head coach. Right. But if I'm willing to pick up that trash, right. I'm showing the importance that, you know, I'm not, I'm not leaving it for somebody else.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: We're doing what's, what is necessary, right. For the task to be done and for the standard to be upheld. And you know, that's something for me is I just, whatever throughout my career, I just, you know, I want it to be, I want it to be the best that it can be. And whether, whether you get the recognition for it or not. Right. You know, it's still at the end of the, at the end of the day, I get to look in the mirror and know, did I give everything that I have, that I pour have, I have pour everything that I have into the opportunity that I've been given. Because if I can, if I know that I've been my best that day, whether it's even through some momentary, you know, defeats, have I been my best, then I can lay my head on that pillow and know that, man, that, that, that's, that's all that I have have. And as I mentioned earlier, you know, I, I don't fear failure. Right. You know, there's, you know, that's, that's part of it. If you and I go one on one, one of us is going to win, one of us going to lose.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Right. But if I, what I do fear, I fear regret. Right? And that's something I never want to experience. I never want to look back and regret because I didn't give all and so to say that if there's been one thing that that has allowed me to have success and to be in some incredible positions is that I just try to pour everything that I have in and you learn from them, learn from the mistakes. I try to grow through the uh, through each of the experiences and uh, you know just the willingness to step

Speaker A: up and step out that's uh, fantastic. Yeah yeah Coach, thank you so much. Just appreciate you creating the time. Know how precious time is right now because we know that the season's just a few weeks away so just really thank you for taking the time to share with us.

Speaker C: Well it means a lot to have you guys here and you know we're excited about all things that are ahead and uh, you're looking forward to a great season and and man enjoy the time and go Knowles go knows uh.