Going Green the Tasty Way! RollinGreens on the Nexxt Level Podcast

Speaker A: Welcome to the Next Level Brands podcast

Speaker B: where we share stories about the food and CPG world with experts in the trenches about how to build a successful brand Today. Now your host, G. Stephen Kleer.

Speaker A: Hello everyone and thanks for joining us here on the Next Level Brands podcast. We're brought to you today by Kitchen to Shelf, the educational arm of Next Level Brands and providers of online and in person courses, workshops and webinars for for CPG entrepreneurs at any stage of growth. If you've got a small business started selling locally or at farmers markets, then the Ready for Retail online course is for you. From packaging to UPC codes to determining your proper wholesale price, Ready for Retail has all the information you need to be selling in stores. More details@kitchentoshelf.com that's kitchenthenumber2shelf.com, what you need to know to grow. My guest today on the podcast is Lindsey Cunningham, the CEO and co founder of Roland Greens. She was born into an entrepreneurial family in Scarsdale, New York and grew up with the dream of owning her own restaurant. I know that. I know that she's nicknamed Pistol because of her persistence, passion and risk taking. That sets her apart from the rest of the crowd. She graduated from the University of Colorado at Boulder with a B.S. in journalism, broadcast news. So we both have a background in broadcast news. After two summers with being a page at NBC, she listened to her childhood dream and started the Rolling Greens food truck with her now husband, Ryan Cunningham, a virtual restaurant on wheels. Ten years later, Roland Greens has thrived and expanded with a line of plant based frozen alternatives in more than 1800 stores nationwide. Their offerings include Millet Tots, uh, cauliflower wings, and they're getting ready or currently in the midst of launching their first Shelf Stable product. Welcome to the program, Lindsay.

Speaker B: Thank you, Steve. Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: No problem. So, yeah, so both of us started out in broadcast journalism. We were going to try to change the world. What happened? How'd you end up in food?

Speaker B: Well, I've been a foodie since an early age. I remember the days where I would, um, you know, I would serve my family as though it was in a restaurant. It was called Bella Bella. So I've been playing restaurants since I was like a toddler. But, um, you know, I grew up as a foodie. I got really inspired by junior year of high school at Boulder High, and I had a teacher that really inspired me through catering. And that's kind of what triggered my love, um, for doing food, you know, professionally.

Speaker A: Sure. Right. And you were in Boulder, which of course is a well known hot hotspot, culinary wise and disruptive food.

Speaker B: Exactly. Has been from the beginning. You know, we moved here when I was seven years old. My husband, who's my partner in rolling greens, he's born and raised in Boulder, so he's kind of like a unicorn. And, um, so we grew up, um, you know, his mother is a pioneer in cooking, so we both have that love for food. But, you know, I studied journalism and I had some, you know, great summers as a page with NBC at, you know, Nightly News as well as Access Hollywood. And, uh, when we actually got together, um, it's really when I, you know, we decided to take that love for food and make it a profession.

Speaker A: So. Right. So you're assuming you have jobs and everything. And did you sit around one night and go, oh, I think what I really want to do is a food truck. How did you pick food truck?

Speaker B: Kind of. I mean, we had always wanted to start a restaurant. And so, you know, I was doing PR and marketing. My husband has been a personal chef for over 10 years. And so we, um, I was talking to my sister who lived in New York City, and this was in 2010, late 2010, and she said, you know, you guys should start a food truck. Because it was right as the food truck craze was happening. And so we both looked at each other and we were like, that is it. And so we actually got a loan from our friend and within two months, um, my husband had designed and we started to build our food truck because he has an architecture background as well. Uh, and it wasn't until we were building the food truck that we learned about our family history and Ryan's family starting Boulder's first organic food truck in 1980.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: Yeah. So it was very serendipitous.

Speaker A: And so what did you guys. What was your. What were your offerings in the food truck? What was your positioning? What kind of, what kind of food were you preparing?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we, we weren't all vegan back then, so. But we did focus about 80% organic and local. We worked with, you know, so many local farmers. We really got to know them. And we created anything from, you know, we used grass fed beef. So we used anything from, you know, we did Korean barbecue beef tacos to organic beef salad. You know, we always had about 12 menu items that were always unique. And we have lines around the corner. And one of the lines was, uh, due to our millet pot. People just freaked over this product. And so it was at that point where we realized we were onto something and we started our package product line.

Speaker A: And so you have some validity obviously from, from your, your customers at the truck. Um, what were the challenges you went through to basically take like the milletots, right. From doing them for the truck to putting them in a package and getting them, you know, in stores?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it was, it was great that we had the food truck because again, that's where our revenue was coming from. We could kind of take our time even though, you know, we act quick and um, fast and so, um, we got up and running pretty quickly in the stores. But, but really, um, I got something. I was basically good and I just uh. Okay, tell me your question again. Sorry.

Speaker A: Okay, so it is, is you, you, you have product validity that's already there from. Right. Your customers at the truck and like with the Millets. So, so the Milletops. Right. How do you take that then and, and, and put that in a package and get it out to stores?

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I must say that when things all work together at one point, you realize that it was meant to be and that you're on the right track. And that's really how it was for us. Uh, at the Milletcast, I mean I literally walked into Whole Foods to talk to the buyer with a Ziploc baggie that said bake at 375, uh, for 15 minutes. And I, uh, had a three minute meeting. And the guy was like, I love it. The buyer loved it and he put it on his shelves. And it's not only this easy, but that, that's kind of how the journey went. I mean people, you know, we figured it out. There wasn't, you know, a textbook where it told us like, this is where you get all your trademark. This is how you start. You know, where do you go to even find bags? How do you, who's going to manufacture this to you? And so it all just like really worked together. And so one of the main things that made it official was we found a co packer that took us on pre revenue and which was unheard of. You know, every co packer we talked to said you need a million or two in sales, yada, yada. And for us, we had been working 100 hour weeks, just seven days a week, just grinding. And the last thing we wanted to do was then go into production and make our own, make this um, on a scaled level. And so to find that we had somebody that believed in the concept, that had a professional scaled up facility that would take us on that's what we needed to take the next step to really do it.

Speaker A: And so friends don't do this at home, by the way. These are professionals now. Um, but it's a great story of going into Whole Foods and just taking the product in. Because if you get somebody who tastes something and then they get a belief and then they can take that on.

Speaker B: Oh, sorry. I was going to say one more thing is that as much as we need salsas and hummuses, but this wasn't a product that had been around. This was a unique offering. We were offering the buyers to fill a gap in their freezer section. You know, they didn't have anything like this. And so I think as long as you have, you know, a unique item, that that doesn't exist. I mean, I think that. That your chances are very good getting in if it's a great product.

Speaker A: And so. So starting with Whole Foods and then you had your co packer obviously kind of partnering with you in a sense. I, um. What did you start doing next? Did you look at, okay, we're going to distribute to other Whole Foods or we're going to look at other places in Boulder and maybe Denver. How did. How did you go about growing it?

Speaker B: You know, I hit the pavement. I was the sales force. And so, you know, Alfalfa's, Lucky's Market, Whole Foods, those were the first in our region to take us on. And we were probably only in about 17 stores for the first year. Only because we were figuring things out. We were deciding if we were going to stop the food truck, which we ultimately did, in order to liquidate our assets and, you know, have money to put into the milletop side of the business. Right. Um, and, you know, through the co packer, they helped with bagging, they hooked us up with, you know, you know, our bag supplier, box supplier, ingredients. Um, we actually a funny fact or an interesting fact is that Colorado supplies over half the US Millet. So in our backyard, we had the amazing millet supplier in Sterling, Colorado. And so we teamed up with them. And so, you know, we kind of did the same approach we did when we had a food truck. It's like we got to know our farmers equally and we got to know our suppliers. And so we took that philosophy and brought it in. Just a scaled up version.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that. That's. That's really good, too. How did you, um, did you try to do more things with millet or how did you expand the line?

Speaker B: So, um, so once. So in 2016 is when we launched the Millet Tots into retailers. And later that year, we actually retired the food truck. And after that, we had one skew. It was our oat. We call it the OG Skew, but it's our, um, onion flake and sea salt skew. And we had that alone in the freezer section for two years before we launched two other flavors. Now, I don't think I'd recommend that they always say launch three or four varieties at one time because especially in the freezer section, you can get lost very easily. It's really a testament to the product and the uniqueness as to how it continues to sell. Buyers continue to like it and ask for more innovation, which they still do today. So, um, in 2018, it wasn't until we launched our two other hues, one being garlic and basil, and the other with poblano and sweet potato. Oh, yeah. And so today, yeah, we have the. Yeah, it's kind of like a. We say the original is like an onion ring hush puppy. Um, the poblano sweet potato kind of like, um, you know, hush or a, um, it's kind of like a, uh, cornbread. And if you dip it in honey or agave, it's delicious. And then the garlic has, like, Mediterranean flavors. So dip it in marinara or, like, you know, kind of takes on this pizza flavor. So they're really delicious offerings. And then, um, in 2019, skipping ahead a little bit, we just launched our cauliflower wings, which are doing really well as well.

Speaker A: That's awesome. And, um, so, yeah, cauliflower, the new. The new darling. Um, I hope it's. It's. I always loved cauliflower, so just. It's an easy transition for me to just do cauliflower instead of something else. Um, I just really liked it, but I'm hoping that cauliflower doesn't go the way of kale. Um, you know, it's just. It's the star of the moment, but we'll see. But I think it's got more. More staying power, you know, going forward. Um, yes. So then. And obviously you guys. So frozen and Frozen has its own challenges. But I think the one good thing of course is, is that again, you're bringing innovation to a category. Um, frozen is probably a little easier to deal with than refrigerated if you were doing a fresher product or whatever. And, you know, and people also, convenience wise, it just. It just makes a great deal of sense. But you mentioned about, um, the shelf stable product or new product. So can you talk a little bit about that or is it too early?

Speaker B: It's a little too early to talk about those. But I can tell you, you know, you're right. I mean we see a ton of opportunity in white space in the freezer section and that with um, you know, for us it's all about clean, label, whole using whole simple ingredients. Right. I mean today's frozen landscape and even the remainder of the store, you turn the back of a box and it's, you know, 50 ingredients you've never heard of. Or it's like, why is lead in my product? Or you know, or in this product. So it's like, you know, what we're doing is we're using minimal ingredients and all ingredients that you know, love and possibly are in your pantry today. So I think that's a big difference between us and others. The other is we're chef led, we're chef created. So it's all about taste. We feel like you can have tasty plant based products that are unique and that consumers love. That's really the uniqueness for us. But as you mentioned, supply chain is a bit of a nightmare and it's very costly for us. Direct to consumer is a big initiative initiative for us this year. And so that was another reason that was part of the appeal of shelf stable and it just so happened our new innovation shelf stable.

Speaker A: And we are doing this recording in the midst of the COVID crisis, of course. So can you talk a little bit about in terms of um, supply chain and the challenges and whatever else, how have you had to change any operations or anything due to the impact?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's been a whirlwind. I mean food is definitely a great space to be in right now, but it has its challeng, um, the supply chain bottom up, top down has been an issue. I mean you talk about. We've been wanting to get up online for a long time, about eight months and we finally made it happen about three weeks ago. And we're seeing significant traffic already order from our website. But now we have the problem where there's dry ice. So for frozen you have to add dry ice to your shipment. Well, the ethanol and CO2, it's becoming a problem. So dry ice suppliers are cutting about half of what they're providing in dry ice to our fulfillment center. And uh, this isn't just the fulfillment center. I mean we put CO2 when we, you know, when you cool down products or you know, it acts in so many different ways, the manufacturing. So that's now an issue with fulfillment. So now I have. Everybody has to pay more because it has to be two day instead of a ground shipping, let's say, you know, so the consumer's going to pay more for that, um, shipping. The freight companies, a lot of them are backlogged so it's taking more time to get to a location. Um, you talk about our manufacturers. I mean we can't even have somebody from our personnel go to the run because they're protecting their employees and they don't want outside factors coming in that could possibly spread or make everybody sick. And then so they're just trying to do whatever they can to keep their employees safe. And so at every level it is affecting us. And then even at the distributor level there's a threshold on non essential items that were considered non essential. So we have out of stock nationwide. So I mean there's definitely some silver lining. But I think ultimately it has affected every level of our business.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, it's amazing sometimes I think people forget that. For instance, I work with a client whose product is dry, um, but it's a blend of herbs and spices. And he has one of those that all of a sudden is going on. The supplier has said, by the way, we're running low and we don't know when we're going to get the next one. So for the lack of one single ingredient, all of a sudden his line is going to stop, you know, and he got something that people don't normally think about, that there's other things, a bunch of things that go into this and any one of those links in the chain can um, it broken. So you'd be careful about that.

Speaker B: Well exactly, yeah.

Speaker A: So the other thing I was going to ask you about was um, in, in terms of um. We'll talk about direct to consumer for a minute which is you guys are doing some stuff on the website and I wanted to make sure that everybody knows that Lindsay and I have not been misspeaking. It is Roland Greens with no G. Except for the Greens.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So it's one. Yep. It's one word, one G. So it's like Roland Greens plural dot com.

Speaker A: Okay. So that everybody wants to go. If you can't find it in your store for any reason, you can find it@roland greens.com and we figure that out, um, going back over from, you know, from food truck to the store and obviously a lot of stuff just went right. So there was, you know, it was ah, um, it looked as though it was destined to happen. But what was the biggest like challenge you faced in Growing that business, Was it funding? Was it getting people to try the product? Or what did you have to really ramp up to get through?

Speaker B: Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I mean, we have had tremendous challenges. I guess I was just saying beginning where it all started to work, you just knew it was meant to be. But throughout the way, we've had tremendous hurdles. But, you know, we stayed persistent and we stayed transparent and focused on quality and our products. And at the end of the day, we try to be the best people we can be. And I think that that's shown through. But for us, Millet is such a unique item. That's a good thing because people will take that. But it's also a bad thing because maybe people won't pick it on the shelf because they don't know what it is. And so for us, people don't know. A lot of people don't know what Millet is. And if they do know what it is, they feed it to their birds. And so for us, that's why we say your birds are so happy. And are we sure, because they're eating millet, but it also makes you feel light as a bird. So to date, we have to do so much marketing to educate consumers on what Millet is. And so, you know, something like a cauliflower wings. We've already put, like little to no marketing dollars so far behind that product, and it's already selling two to three times more than others in their category. And it's because people know what it is. Right? So, you know, that's been a huge hurdle, is really the education piece on Millet. But, you know, millet is such a underutilized, nutrient dense whole grain. You know, it's similar to quinoa. It's like how chemo was 10 years ago. You know, no one knew what it was. Or kale. And now it's a mainstay. And that's how we feel, you know. You know, Millet will be in the future, but we haven't had millions of dollars, marketing dollars, to put behind it. So, you know, it's all about trial. And we demo hard and. And another aspect has been funds. Capital is really hard to get when you're early stage. So, I mean, I think my first round was last year. My first big round was last year. We went out to see 500,000. We ended up bringing over 700,000 in. But I probably contacted 400 people. You know, from angels to, you know, true believers to VCs, to private equity. I mean, you name it, I Called them, you know, and, uh, it was like those odds, the odds are pretty, pretty slim. So, you know, it takes a certain person, a certain personality to hear no every single day of their life. When all you're doing is trying to change the food system in just a little, little way, you know, trying to be your part in helping to change the food system and offer quality, good products, you know, that tastes good. And so when you're young and you have no money, but you have all the passion in the world, it's a hard combo.

Speaker A: Yeah, it sure is. What will you. So what's kind of the next. Obviously the new shelf stable product is going to be next. Whatever. Are you going to look for another round of funding? Have you thought about crowdfunding? What's going up next?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we actually just opened up a new round. Um, we are raising a million dollars and uh, we are in due diligence with a hand people. So we're pretty confident that we're going to get some funds in, in the next little while. And um, you know, in order to launch more products and to continue to market the current ones, got to get more funds in. So I think, you know, the path to fundraising is not by any means ended. I think it just is beginning.

Speaker A: And you know, because you obviously have a great product, but you also have a window on your audience too. And. And so are you aiming for, is this, I mean, aimed at vegans or is it aimed at people who just want something that tastes good and is healthy for you?

Speaker B: Exactly. You nailed it. The latter part of what you just said. I mean, this is a great vegan, gluten free, soy free, allergen friendly product. You know, we're all these things, right. But at the end of the day, we want to market to everyone. And so that's kind of when we did the rebrand with our packaging in 20, um, 19 or 2018. Excuse me. That was where we brought in taste appeal. You know, we just want to get people have two seconds to pick out what they want at the grocery store. Right. Especially if it's a new product. We just want to get it in their cart and then they turn. Then when they get home, they figure out that we're all these things. They see our story, they see we're family business, you know, all these things. So I think that, uh, the first and foremost is we want to have taste appeal.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And once you have that, then taste is number one. I mean, we get the other stuff and whatever, but it has to taste good.

Speaker B: Um, Exactly.

Speaker A: Let me ask you about, go back for a second. Your background in news and in media. How did that influence or help you out in building the business?

Speaker B: That's a great question because I think that, that, you know, kind of goes by the wayside and you people don't, you know, realize that their background really does help and especially when it's in, um, you know, film and uh, for us, you know, I've edited countless videos for us, you know, like where when I went to journalism school and learned how to edit and learn how to film and learn how to question, you know, I always am questioning and that's why I, you know, studying to be a reporter, you know, it was like I, I'm always asking the why and I feel like, um, I do that every single day in my business. Like having a no. You know, I get like a lot of people just kind of do no or, you know, they don't want to look into it, so they'll just say no. It's the easier response. So I'm always pressing that. And that's why I feel like I'm moving things along so much further and so much faster because I'm constantly, you know, the follow up and asking. Um, but so for the video aspect, that played a lot on social for me. And then the other element is pr. I mean, I had a PR background. So every PR piece that we've gotten to date and we've gotten written up and you know, podcasts and interviews and that's all from my doing. And imagine if I was doing it full time. I mean that's just a small, small piece of what I'm doing. But, but I've gotten, uh, us a lot of PR to date. And it's because I learned how to do a press release. I know how to do the follow up, I know the programs to use. So I think that my background in journalism played a big role in helping us today.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And there's a certain also discipline to getting, you know, whatever they call now the elevator pitch or the brand story or whatever, but being able to get to the center of the story and articulate it properly helps you get that stuff out there with, with other people.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Honing in on our message, you know, finding out what that message is and then just, you know, saying it a million times over because it's new to somebody every single time you say it. So you got to say it, you know, with the same passion and enthusiasm if you did the first time you ever said it.

Speaker A: Right. Has to happen that way it's, um.

Speaker B: And it's the repetition.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, also. Right. It's. It's one of those things, I think that, you know, when I was in school for broadcast journalism, I actually was a talk show host at that time as well. So when I got approached about doing, you know, a podcast and they started talking to me about it, I said, yeah, I think I have the idea. I'm not sure that I want to do it. Although it's turned out to be great and so much fun and, you know, meeting people like you and talking to other fellow entrepreneurs out there. But when I got in the agency business, what happened? I kind of went from news to commercials and, you know, but still that discipline from copywriting and, you know, being able to do those things and knowing, you know, knowing what 30 seconds is and how much time it is and what you can say within 30 seconds is, is really important and I think helps out in, in general, you know, general marketing as well.

Speaker B: Exactly. And you, you just nailed it too, is, uh, you know, just the awareness that you have from your voice to your. How you, how your position, how you look, what you're wearing, what good looks of it on camera. I mean, we on QVC tomorrow and unfortunately, because of COVID 19, we were supposed to be there, but they're not allowing out suggestion at the moment, understandably. So we're calling in. But you know, when we. You have to do a media training for qvc. You know, when you go there, they may, you know, before you ever air, they have. You have to do a, you know, whole day of stuff. So what. But when we went in, it was like we had been on camera 15 million times, you know, compared to who? You know, we saw some other people that looked like, okay, maybe, you know, they've never even been on camera before. So it's like that has prepped us and positioned us in such a better way. I think just having that background, I

Speaker A: think that'll be absolutely fun for you.

Speaker B: And oh my gosh, we're so excited

Speaker A: you're gonna move so much product.

Speaker B: Oh, man, I hope so. I hope so.

Speaker A: Unbelievable.

Speaker B: I think it's the wave of the future. QVC, man, is like 100% where we should all be shopping from now on. But it's definitely the wave of the future.

Speaker A: I have a couple of friends whose products are on there. And, um, um, Mamie's pies, uh, from, um, Northern California is on there. And then the, uh, finger licking Dutch Stoopwaffel people. And you think, stoopwafels right. Jon Bronson. And um, it's like. And he tells me. Which I won't divulge, whatever, but he tells me the numbers and it's like, john, you got to be kidding me. I mean, I know that is just, you know, incredible. Absolutely incredible. So.

Speaker B: Well, and it's such a magical place though. It's like you walk in and it's like how I used to, you know, how I feel at kind of Whole Foods. You know, it's the fairy death, like. Right, right. Everybody's happy and everybody's like, you know, it just. There's this buzz and this energy and they're on 24. 7 live TV. I mean there's no place on earth like UVB.

Speaker A: Well, that'd be great. So that's awesome. So, yeah, unfortunately you'll have been on by the time this airs, but that's okay. You'll be back on again so people can see it.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I hope so. I hope it's the norm for us.

Speaker A: And let's also remind, uh, listeners if they're, they're interested in getting some product, learning more about Rolling Greens, where can they find the information?

Speaker B: Roland Greens.com R O L L I N G R e e n s.com Excellent.

Speaker A: And we hope that they'll go and do that. Um, so coming through all of this and now, um, looking at different products, you're also making a little bit of a switch in the most places you're going to go to now. Your new products will be with a different buyer, right? Different buying team. How do you approach that exactly?

Speaker B: You know, it's a whole different ball game, to be honest. And that's what we're positioning now with the whole set of buyers and that, you know, today it's been all consolidated because, you know, they're the same buyers, same supply chain, same co packer, same a lot of things. And so yeah, that's definitely something that is going to be a change. But we believe so much in the transition and it doesn't mean that we're not going to have frozen items as well. But you know, you look at brands like, you know, uh, Annie's and Amy's, you know, they have, they have figured out how to, you know, bleed into the other categories. And that has always been an initiative for us and now more than ever with online shipping and um, things like that, I mean the time is now for us and it just happened to be that the product innovation and uh, the next few are shelf stable. But it's always Also been a goal for us as well.

Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, I really appreciate actually taking the time today to be with this. It's been great talking to you and learning more about your story and the business. And, uh, we'll have to do it again sometime when you've got some other new products down the road. Um, very good luck, by the way, on qvc. I can't wait to hear about it. I would check in with you, but, um, one of the things we do to torture our guests here on the podcast is we try to ask them to come up with a single word or single phrase, um, or topic or whatever. If you want to pick, uh, a whole topic of advice or counsel that you would pass along to fellow entrepreneurs. Because a lot of our audience are people who are in startup mode or in smaller, medium sized food and beverage. And, uh, what would you pass on if you could do it in sort of a very succinct way?

Speaker B: Oh, man, there's so many different things I would say, but I guess I kind of already said it. I mean, the biggest thing for me, I think, in the success that I've had just so far, and I feel like I'm just getting going, is persistence. I mean, persistence pays off, you know, and it's all about the follow up as well. And that's another thing, you know, I learned, uh, in journalism, it's all about the follow up. And so you can't just expect to put it out there and, you know, it to happen. You have to continue working at it. And it's hard work and it's like moving a mountain every day. But being persistent and the follow up is what it's all about.

Speaker A: Yeah, persistence pays and that. That's for sure. I know there's, there's folks that will get in, they'll get a break and go into maybe, you know, a large retailer, right? And they get their product in seven, eight, nine stores, and then they don't hear anything from the buyer and they're like, oh, I don't. Well, you can contact the buyer, it's okay. And you might not get a call back. You might need a call back for a week. But, you know, you understand that they're probably responsible for a couple thousand SKUs, right? And they just can't contact everybody. Right.

Speaker B: Well, and that's the thing too. And I think I was scared for so long when I first got started. Like, it is true. It's kind of like when you do pr, like you don't want to hound somebody too much Right. You're kind of like on the borderline of stalker. You don't want to go over the line, but for the buyers you have to do the same thing. But you forget that they, you know, you want a partner in your retailer that's going to get behind you and you want communication. You don't want to write them every single week or every single, single, you know, every even, maybe even every month. But you do want to stay in contact with them and they are your friend. They should be helping you. You know, like, first question you should ask is, you know, not maybe not the first, but you should be aware of how are they expecting you to sell? Do they want your sell through to be three units per store, per sku, per week? Do they want it to be one? Do you need 15? I mean, right?

Speaker A: What's the threshold?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, what's the threshold? Otherwise you're never going to know. Like, you're never going to be able to gauge and you can never have a goal to get there. And I think I never asked that. Like it wasn't until Walmart, we're launching at Walmart in August and the head of diversity and inclusion, because we're certified women owned, we've gotten, we love them, they've been such a great program for us. And so when I talked to him, that's the first thing he said is you need to know what your buyer expects out of you. And I think we're just all, you know, we're just so happy to get in the door. And you're like dealing with Walmart, you're so excited, but you have to take that next step and know that they're running a business, but so are you. And you know, you guys need each other just the same.

Speaker A: Yeah. And let me ask you, while we're on that, and that is, um, a lot of people would just, like when you mentioned Walmart just did this big disconnect because they're thinking, wait a minute, you know, uh, natural, uh, all good ingredients, upscale millet and uh, cauliflower. Walmart. So can we, can we dispel the myth that Walmart only sells, you know, hot dogs to, you know, people in the south or something? I mean, what. They're actually very good at new products, 100%.

Speaker B: And I think that you would be missing a huge opportunity if you didn't want to be with Walmart because you didn't think that they were natural enough. You know, the moment that you can get your product into somewhere like Walmart is the moment that you can offer the world your healthy food and that they're actually going to put your food on the shelf. So you know, any, pretty much anyone anywhere can get your product if you're going to be in all their stores or if you're going to be in a good portion. I mean Walmarts are everywhere, right? And so often they've uh, taken out freezers to dedicate this to help better for you products. Walmart is growing, uh, maybe these big retailers that you wouldn't think were natural, meaning were slow to the game because people like Whole Foods or leaning retailers to prove out the model. But the fact that our world is there and the consciousness has shifted to that, I mean that is all we've ever asked to do. So the fact that Walmart is on board with items like ours, I mean that's a home run, Evan.

Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. That's good. And everyone deserves to be able to

Speaker B: have healthy food doctor to work with.

Speaker A: Yes. And for the most part they are, they're, they've been very good with the clients I work with and I think they're, they're coming a long way. I think also, um, you're going to be seeing a lot of activity from Walmart.com as well and that's going to be a big thing for opportunity for a lot of people. Well Lindsay, I really, again really, really appreciate you being with us today and taking the time and glad uh, to have you as on as a guest. I know it took us a little while to get, get this done but you know it was, we were both busy and obviously you've been busier than I have so it was great.

Speaker B: But anyways, I bet not. But I appreciate your time and I hope you stay well and you know, we get out of this COVID 19, you know, soon.

Speaker A: Yep, you bet. Well again, thanks Lindsay and thanks to all of you for joining us here on the Next Level Brands podcast. Our podcast brought to you today by Kitchen to Shelf, the educational arm of Next Level Brands and providers of courses, workshops, webinars, groups and one on one coaching for CPG entrepreneurs at any stage of growth. If you'd like to know more, check out the details@kitchentoshelf.com that's kitchenthenumber2shelf.com what you need to know to grow. This is Steve Clear and we'll see you all next time.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the Next Level Brands podcast with G. Stephen Clear.

Speaker A: Learn more at Next with 2X's LevelBrands.com

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