How Master Communicators Control Every Outcome with Reg Malhotra | EP Rewind

Speaker A: All problems are communication problems, business relationship. If there's one thing people are going to master, Jeremy. The ability to meet people where they're at.

Speaker B: Rez Malhotra. It's that human behavior where we want to be right. But it's like you want to be right or do you want to actually win?

Speaker A: Understanding what's important to them. That doesn't mean you lose your position. To be able to direct a conversation, do you need to be more abstract or do you need to get more specific?

Speaker B: How do you get better at communicating? Like, how do you. How do you learn this stuff?

Speaker A: It's not as hard as it seems.

Speaker B: If you want to learn hypnosis and psychology and influence and persuasion and even sales, that's probably why you follow me. You're going to want to tune in to this interview where I'm going to interview Reg Malhotra, who is the CEO of NeuroMasters Academy. Look, if you want to learn those skills, especially like influence and persuasion in all areas of your life, if you going to tune into this video and I'm going to break it down with Reg, and you're going to learn a ton. So stay tuned. I think you're going to enjoy this one. All right, Rez. So a lot of people have been wanting me to ask you this question. What's the biggest mistake you see people make in relationships? Like, what's the biggest mistake?

Speaker A: Stay, Jeremy. Um, and this is after working with thousands of people, and this seems to be a very common theme. Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: Is expecting the other person to get your point of view.

Speaker B: Yeah. Why do we do that as human beings? Like, why do we expect, like, let's say you're in a marriage or you're dating somebody. Like, why do you expect them. Like, why doesn't she or he understand where I'm coming from? Like, why do we feel that way?

Speaker A: I think we inherently like that. We secretly, we want people to be like us.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That's point one. Point two is, you know, there is. There is this deep desire to win.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker A: I. Or the desire to be right.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: You'd agree. Yeah. People will die to be right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That's what presents itself in personal relationship. Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's interesting because I'm really good friends with a campaign manager, uh, campaign, uh, advisor in the presidential election right now going on. And I said, I said to this gentleman one day, I was like, listen, do you want your candidate to be right or do you want them to win? Because those are two separate things. Because I'm sitting here Watching some of the dialogue and the communication. And I'm like, well, they're just basically telling everybody that they're right and the other person's wrong. And I'm like, if you're trying to sway voters over that are more in the middle or on the other side, you gotta have some kind of commonality with the other person. But then why. Maybe your idea might help people better, but not in a mean spirited way. And I said, look, if we want to like prove that our thinking, our way of thinking is, is the right way, like you're wrong, I'm right. You're just going to, yeah, sure, you're going to fire up your base, but everybody that's in the middle, you're not really going to move them to your side. People that are kind of a little bit to the middle on the other side, you're not really going to move them over to your way of thinking. So you got to be able to come up with some commonality and some compliments even sometimes that are side. But you know, your way of thinking might be a little bit better for this reason. Okay. And that kind of pulls people ever so slightly your way. So it's all about, you know, it's, it's, it's that behavior where we want to be right. All damn to hell. But it's like, do you want to be right or do you want to actually win at the end of the day?

Speaker A: And in a personal relationship, do you want it to work. Yeah. Or do you always want to be the one on top, the one who's right? And yeah, you're spot on there, Jerry. I love, I love the example you use there because that's what it is. A lot of people are just. People will spend weeks, years trying to be right, even in their home. Yeah.

Speaker B: It's so true. Because if you're going to like therapy with your, your partner, whatever, and all you keep doing with the psychologist just arguing that your way is right, nothing will ever happen. Right. The other person will not come close to your way of thinking. They're more than likely going to do what, get defensive and dig in their heels of how they feel. Right.

Speaker A: Which I'm sure what you refer to it even your work is resistance.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker A: If that's been angry because people, people want to be right. Uh, yeah. Go into defensive mode.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And now the communication is dead. Yeah.

Speaker B: And it goes nowhere. Well, it's the same. True. It's in true. In sales.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: We would call that sales resistance. Right. Where let's say that the prospect throws out a rebuttal or, uh, you know, throws out an objection. And most sales people will just kind of throw out a rebuttal and try to prove them with stats and facts why they're right and they're wrong. And I'm like, never do that. Because you're hardly ever going to move anyone to your way of thinking by logically proving that you are right. You will never, like, you can have the facts in your face. You could say, you could say like, listen, I don't believe in the sun. The sun does not exist and the sun is shining in your face. But if you, if you, you know, if you're the person that has that belief that the sun doesn't exist, even if the sun is shining in your face, if somebody logically tries to prove that to you, you still kind of dig in your heels like, well, it's just an illusion. Or like you're, you're, you're going to make decisions emotionally. So if that a person tries to logically prove something to you, you will very rarely prove. Move that person your way of thinking. It's, you know what I think is you ever. You have those friends on social media that when politics comes up, they're like, you know, one side or the other. Because I have friends that are Democrat and Republican. Right. I'm just right in the middle. They're watching all the. This going on. I find it fascinating. And they'll post something about, oh, they said this and this is horrible, blah, blah. And it's usually when I read the other side, I'm like, uh, I don't think they meant that. It's probably taken out of context. They're exaggerated. Right. Always find that the truth is more in the middle. But then you'll, you'll see other people that believe in the other side and they'll start to attack each other. And at the end of the day, did anybody get convinced to be like, you know what? The Republicans are right, I'm going to be Republican now. Or you know what? The Democrats are Right. I'm going to be a Democrat. Like, it's very rare that that ever happens because they just dig theirselves in.

Speaker A: Exactly. I mean, there's like you said, there would be no agreement. And you can imagine now at home you had a. Personal relationships and even in marriages.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know what we're seeing and we help a lot of people, Jeremy, break through problems. Yeah. And this is one of the most difficult things that people run into is we use a term in our Field. Yeah. In neuro linguistics and hypnosis and coaching. And the term is model of the word. Mhm.

Speaker B: I like that.

Speaker A: You know that one?

Speaker B: Yeah. Explain that to everybody. They might not know what we say

Speaker A: is everybody has their own model of the word.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And we may think we all know this.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Like you were born in a different place to me. Yeah. You had different experiences. Yeah. You had different, potentially what we call significant emotional events. Yeah. Right. That would have changed you at a personality level. M. Now you could say you and I are doing business together. Yeah. And you know, we may have very different ideas of the world. How the world works. Yes. How people work and what is right or wrong. Imagine that showing up in a marriage.

Speaker B: Exactly. Because, uh, the way I describe it. And I, uh, was talking to you about my friend Rene Rodriguez. We geek out on this stuff all the time. We talk about how everybody really sees the world through different frames. We all frame everything. Right. You're either being framed or you're doing the framing. Right. That's how I look, uh, at the world. Right. You're being framed by the media. You're being framed by your spouse by maybe the way she grew up. So maybe she, you know, her dad always took out the trash. But your dad never had time to take out the trash because she was a busy executive on the road. So you see, like, she thinks, like she sees the frame the world through how she was raised. Was she, she saw her dad do take out the trash because maybe her mom was the main provider and dad was more, you know, was a teacher and didn't have to work as much. I'm not saying teachers don't work hard. They definitely work hard. But you, you know what I'm saying? Right. But your dad was a busy executive who traveled, didn't take out the trash. So you're like, why do I need to take out the trash? I'm busy. Like I got a business. Right. But you see how we see life through different frames.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's uh, using some great examples there. And um, you know, one of the things we say is we need people where they're at.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That doesn't mean you lose your position. Not saying that you have no, you don't stand for nothing and you have no opinion of your own.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And meeting people where they're at for is a, is a linguistic process. It's understanding what's important to them, entering their world and taking them from there. We say take people from where they are, not from where they're not.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it's almost like you can explain that to them. Like, oh, you know, honey, uh, I'm so sorry. Like, because what I've done is like, oh, you know, like, babe, like, what did your dad do? Did he take out the trash? Because I, I've, you know, when I went to school for all this stuff. So I'm trying to see her way of thinking, right? And so like, oh, did your dad take it? Oh, that's why you want me to take the trash. Because your dad did it for your mom. Ok? It makes sense to me. Whereas before I'm like, why in the hell would she want me to do that? Like, can't you see I'm busy? So it's like, you know, like Stephen R. Covey says, you know, seven highly habits of highly effective families or whatever. I got a bunch of his books over here. But he says, you know, first seek to understand and then be understood. I think if everybody lived their life like that, including like world leaders, I think we would very rarely have wars and things like that.

Speaker A: That's beautifully said. I think, um, it's not as hard as it seems. If you think of rapport building processes, I'm sure you teach as well. What are you doing? What is matching and mirroring? What is using people's keywords and traits? What is that really about? Because people like to feel heard and understood.

Speaker B: Yeah, I always say that, you know, people, people don't like to be talked at and sold to. They like to be heard. But more importantly, you're right, they like to be, uh, they like to feel like you understand them. Right. People will always buy from the companies or salespeople who they feel understand them the most. Because if they feel you understand them the most, that means they trust you can get them the best result.

Speaker A: You absolutely spot on. I mean as a, as a CEO, as someone who's, as a business owner, um, the amount of people that we meet, right. Who want to help us grow the business or get our work out there. And I would say, Jeremy, at least two out of three times I walk out of those meetings where someone is wanting to partner with us or provide a service to us, I walk out of there feeling not understood.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah. If you walk out of those meetings not feeling understood, it's going to be very hard for you to be like, you know what, I'm going to go with that company. Let's say if you're looking at a marketing agency for branding. We were just talking about that. If you talk to, let's say five different marketing agencies. If you found one that you felt like, wow, they really get me, they get, they get me, they get my brand, it doesn't matter if they charge 25% more, you will go out and find the funding to do that. Because if you feel they get me, they understand me. You're automatically, your senses, the way your brain works is you're going to feel like they're going to get you a much better result than the companies who you feel like don't really understand you.

Speaker A: You know, I totally agree, I totally agree with that. So you can see that the idea you raised, your question really applies to all of the different areas and business relationship, sales, persuasion, communication is right across. So if there's one thing people are going to master, Jeremy, I'm sure you'd agree, is the ability to meet people where they're at.

Speaker B: Well, I believe that everybody in the world is always selling every day. And when I say that, sometimes at keynotes, uh, to even some audiences that aren't necessarily salespeople, they might be in the operations department or they might be in the finance department or whatever, marketing department, they kind of look at me and then after a couple minutes like, oh my God, I never, I never thought about it that way. Because every day you're out trying to persuade, you're trying to influence, you're trying to move others to your way of thinking. Let's say that you're a marketing director of a company and you're an now going to present to your company, the board, your idea of where you want to take the marketing for their firm, what are you trying to do? Persuade, persuade, influence and move other people. If you are a stay at home parent who is trying to convince your kids to go to bed on time, what are you doing? You're trying to persuade influence, you're trying to move others. If you're an attorney trying to convince a jury that your client's innocent and you're trying to persuade, I mean literally, I could go through everything. Everybody's selling, persuade and influencer. So like you said, it is the number one skill that people in society has to learn.

Speaker A: Yes. Uh, you know, I always say all problems are communication problems. Just like you said, every day we're selling, we gotta look below these messages. Right. All problems are communication problem. When you first hear, think, get out of town. How can. No, I mean at a friendship level, a family level and even inter country

Speaker B: level, it is like wars are fought because of lack of communication. Uh, 100. Right. Because the other side, one side, both Sides don't feel like they don't understand me. Like, they say something and they might take it out of context and, like, let's start a war. It's like they just don't. They don't try to understand where each other's coming from. I, you know, I look at, like, the. The whole Russia situation with NATO. Well, has anybody ever looked, uh, at, like, how does Russia. Why did. Because it doesn't. Nobody thinks they're the bad guy. Right? Like, I don't think of any war in history. You know, if, you know, I'm a big historian as well, so I really enjoy World War I, World War II areas. World War II. Germany didn't think they were the bad guys. Like, no kidding. They thought they were the good guys. Right. History rewrites everything, right? So if the United. If the Allies would have lost, the Axis powers would have said, these are the bad guys. Right. But nobody thinks they're the bad guys. They always think they're the right ones. Right. And we don't try it now. Uh, like, look, they were obviously really bad. At the end of the day, there's some crazy stuff, but they didn't think they were bad. Right. Nobody thinks they're bad. So it's like trying to understand the other side's way of thinking and even acknowledging, like, you know, hey, NATO to Russia, like, hey, you know, they feel, like, threatened because NATO's putting, you know, military bases with missiles right on their borders, so they feel that they're going to be taken over. Even though NATO's like, we're not going to take over. We're just trying to defend ourselves from you. Right. But Russia feels like, well, you can say that, but what it looks like is you're trying to take us over. So it's like, why can't we come out with commonalities and feel like, well, maybe each other. Maybe each other were. Maybe we're both wrong. Maybe. Maybe we're like, we're just pointing these missiles at each other. And maybe the intentions on the other side are really not to take each other over. You know, that's an example of first seek to understand, then be understood.

Speaker A: Yeah. And finding common ground. Yeah, finding common ground. And look, I think the human experience is always going to involve misunderstandings, misinterpretations. But if someone is watching this video, and if someone is, you know, I'd have to presume that they are looking to be a better person, either in business or in life or whatever it is. Um, you know, this should be a non negotiable, 100%.

Speaker B: All right, so I've got a bunch of other questions for you. How do you, uh, I think this is a really important one, so make sure you guys are paying attention to this right now, because if you have kids, you want to hear what Reg is about to say. How do you get your kids to listen to you and do what you want them to do?

Speaker A: I love that question. And again, I'm sure that's plagued parents just like, um, you know, questions about relationship and I mean, there are so many places we can go with that. Jeremy, for me, I've been a dad for 20 years now, and, um, having this knowledge and this awareness of how the mind works, how people think and how to influence people are, ah, the principles that fortunately I was able to apply. And how do you get children to do what you want them to do? Well, uh, it's no different to what we were discussing earlier. What is important to them? What is it that they want? What is it that? What is their point of view? But as parents sometimes say, now, you don't know anything. I'm the parent, I know. Yeah, but what if you were to make a strategic shift, listen to their words, their phrases, almost like in sales, Right. Agree with them, meet them where they're at and then influence them with your idea.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it doesn't mean that you, you know, like, let's say you're wiser than them. Say you're talking to a nine year old. You probably have more life experiences, Right. They might not think that dad knows or mom knows what they're going through, but you probably do because you went through it. Maybe you had other kids that are older than that went through it. So you have more experiences, right? So it's almost like you can listen to what they say and take it in and then offer like a different perspective. You can agree with them. Like I really agree with you on that. Like, that's a really valid point. Can I. How can I communicate to you though, that you might be making a mistake without you getting upset with me? See, it's like, but I have to shift my tone. I have to have more of a concern tone. Because if I'm like, well, I, uh, mean, how can I communicate this, that you're making a mistake here? Like, you don't you understand you're making a mistake? See, now I'm defensive. So they're going to get defensive and their guard comes up. But if I sit here and put my hand on my, on my chest, you know, it's just the body language signal that shows that you're concerned. And I can simply say, how can I. I really like what you said. Can I, um, can I ask you something, though? Sure. You sure, dad, how can I communicate to you that you, you might be making a mistake without you getting angry at me? Well, dad, I'm not going to get angry at you. See, it's like a, it's a disarming technique. Uh, right. And what I always tell our, our account executives and our salespeople here in seventh level, and I live by this, except at night when my brain is jello. Except is you're an actor or actress who's always on stage in a play that never ends. So you're an actor or actress always on stage in a play that never ends. So that reminds me, Jeremy, you can't get lazy at 9 o' clock at night with your kids, like what you're training companies and salespeople to do. You need to be able to do that at home all the time.

Speaker A: I, uh, love that and the idea of actor or actress. And you know, I would, I think of it as a performer. Um, we perform different roles and we've got to have a skill set. We've got to have the mindset and then we've got to have the action set. Right. You got to take some form of action. And, you know, I want to tap into something you said earlier about tonality.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker A: So when it comes to communication, there's a few different things you touched upon, which, you know, we, we've been teaching people for years now. Tonality, how you say number two is questions. You see, leaders ask questions. I'm sure you would agree with that. So even in a personal context, when you're dealing with your kids or your partner or family for that matter, I mean, if you can be the one asking questions, the right questions, you're now armed with information that you can utilize.

Speaker B: Yeah. The right questions with the right tone give you power. It gives you influence. If you don't know the right questions, if you don't know how to, how to ask them, it's not even the right questions. It's how are you asking them. You know, we talked about this when you're on the podcast, is your, your, your tone is how the prospect interprets your intention behind everything you say and ask. That's how they interpret why you're asking them. And I think I even gave you that example. I'm not sure if I did. But like, let's say, uh, you've got kids, right?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: How old are your kids?

Speaker A: So I got a 20 year old and a 16 year old.

Speaker B: Okay, let's take your 16 year old, let's say, uh, and you're in Australia. What's the, the, the, can they start driving at 16 or how do they have to be to drivers?

Speaker A: Well, the 16 year old is, get ready for it. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, so here in The United States, 16, they're driving down the road, which is scary sometimes. So let's say your 16 year old son just gets his driver's license, gets a, gets a car and you know, Saturday night you get a call at like 2 in the morning from the local police department and like, hey, your son's in jail. You need to come down and bail him out. He was speeding, he was going, you know, uh, see, I don't know the. Let's say you're in the United States, 95 miles per hour, right? I don't know what that is. In Australia in a 55 mile per hour speed zone. Okay, he's in trouble. That's 40 miles over. So let's say you go down the jail, you're pissed, you got woke up two in the morning, your son just got his, you know, his, his, uh, he's driving out of control, obviously got a huge ticket, it's going to be huge fine. Might even serve some jail time, you never know. And you come in there and you're like, I'm so disappointed in you, son. Like, why would you do that now with that type of tone and that type of body language, how would he react?

Speaker A: Yeah, not only the reaction, um, there's so. There are so many other problems with that. Um, you know, there's a concept we talk about is anchoring in your voice, your tonality in a peak emotional state, you know, could cause all sorts of trouble in the future when the child thinks of it.

Speaker B: Yeah, because they're automatically going to get defensive with that. Well, dad, you don't understand, Right? And now there's like this wall, like we talked about, the wall of resistance in sales. Now you have a wall resistance with your son. But if I simply change my tone, I could say the same words. I could say I could come in like son, so disappointed in you. Why would you do that? See that concern tone, that soft tone, his guard. What it drops. He's like, I'm so sorry, dad. And he knows I'm still upset and really disappointed. But at least he, he like drops his guard, lowers his guard and he apologizes and realizes that he really Messed up. That's how your tone is. Everything. It's not just what you're saying, asking. It's how you're asking.

Speaker A: It's how you say it. You're quite right about that. And I think, um, you know, when it comes to parents, uh, it's. It's even more essential to have a level of mastery over your own emotions. Because those kind of incidents, let's be fair, they can cause a reaction out of any parent. Oh, yeah, right. So where are your emotions at? You know, are you just reacting and not recognizing what it could do in the long term? Yeah, um, yeah, these are some. Some, you know, very important matters. Yeah. For most people.

Speaker B: Well, I love that. It's. It's like your relationship with your children. I mean, every parent, uh, you know, look, you're. You're watching this right here. If you have kids or you're going to have a future family, you want what? You want to have a bond with your children. You want to have a relationship to the end of your days here in this life. And really what determines that is how you communicate with your kids.

Speaker A: 100%.

Speaker B: It's on your communications.

Speaker A: See, your. There's this thing we say. Your, um, voice becomes your child's inner voice when they grow up.

Speaker B: I love that. That's really good. You need to trademark that.

Speaker A: I know, right?

Speaker B: That's really good.

Speaker A: You know, this is. It's true, right? And, um, you know, we've got to be so careful. I mean, you gotta ask yourself, is it important to you? Is it important to you that you create a fabulous relationship with your children? Yeah.

Speaker B: Because at the end of the day, when you're on your deathbed, who's gonna be there? Your children, your closest family members? So if you don't have that, it's not like, you know, uh, let's say if you're a great speaker on stage, maybe you have a few people you spoke with that come. But it's not like your audiences you spoke to are all just going to pile into the hospital to watch you pass away. It's going to be your children. Could be your spouse, could be like, really your brothers or sisters, siblings. It's like that close family are either going to be there or not be there, based on how you guys communicated.

Speaker A: Exactly. And I think one of the other related points, if I can mention, uh, here is a lot of people are trying to have a relationship with who their child used to be. I don't know if you ever heard

Speaker B: of that, but expand on that. That's that's really, that's valid.

Speaker A: See, I've had to think about that a lot and implement that. Uh, say Your child is 16 or 17 and you know, it's, it's pretty normal to use nicknames and see them in a certain way, but they're not the five year old little Johnny anymore. You know what I'm saying? And I think a lot of people are still trying to have a relationship with who they used to be. And if you ask any child, they will tell you, I want to be seen for who I am today. And that's an example. Goes back to communication, right? You may think that there's an enduring term you're using and that's who he or she used to be and that's how you relate to them. There is a point at which you want to see them for who they are and they'll tell you, I want to be seen who I am now. You need to have a relationship with who they are now. And it's. This is also a communication matter.

Speaker B: That's so true. I love that. Okay, what's uh, how do you get. So that leads us into the next. What I want to ask you, like, how do you get better at communicating? Like, how do you, how do you learn this stuff? Like no, you know, are you born out of your mother's womb like an amazing communicator?

Speaker A: Well, first you have to have the intention, you've got to understand, um, if you're watching this, you got to understand the importance of communication and the idea that all problems have a. Think of all your problems, how many of them can you source it back to? Something being said in the wrong way or something not being understood. So you gotta understand the importance of it. Number two, you wanna understand language a little bit better. You see, words have an impact on how people feel. Something you say, Jeremy, could leave a person feeling suicidal.

Speaker B: Is so true.

Speaker A: Words, uh, alone and something you say can make a person into an absolute winner. Yeah, you can speak with people who are doing very well, you know, in their 20s and 30s. And a lot of times you'll find, like I said earlier, the parents voice, the words that were said are still having an impact. So the question is not whether whether communication is something you should learn or not. The question is, can you afford not to?

Speaker B: I think it's so true because I remember I did um, you know, I did a keynote here a couple of years ago and it was, uh, you know, was right. It's right after, you know, live events started coming back more that kind of stuff is around two years. Uh, not probably. Actually, it's about a year and a half ago. So I'd already done several keynotes for probably about a year, year and a half before. And I was making this statement in some of the keynotes that I never really realized was causing maybe some trauma to be relived, uh, by women. And it wasn't something that I literally never thought about it this way. But my girlfriend, she brought it up to me, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I never thought that that's how that would be interpreted. Now, whether some women in the audience interpreted that that way or not, I don't know. But it could be interpreted that way because I would say, you know, I would talk about early in the conversation, like, hey, because we. I always talk about how selling has changed, right at the core belief. And we talked about this of, Of. Of marriage therapy, of any type of psychology, a therapist working with you or if you're in sales. Human beings have this core fear of change. Like, we don't like change, even though we say we do. So we. We're more comfortable with something that's more familiar to us, even if we don't like it that much, over something that is new to us, something that is unknown to us. And I always made this example, like, raise your hand if you know somebody that always complains about the relationship they're in. You know, maybe they. That he said this, she said that, maybe they were even being abused. You know, but do you ever wonder why they stay in that relationship even though they don't like it that much? Well, on, uh, me, I was like, yeah, that makes sense. But I'm like, you know, my girlfriend, she's like, well, what about the women who were physically abused by men? It's not like they stayed in that relationship because they were just afraid of change. They might have felt like they had to stay in that relationship because their life would be threatened or they would be killed or something like beat up. And I'm like, my God, I can't. How inconsiderate was I to never really think about that? So, you know, it's just. It's that communication. And I've quickly switched that up to more like, hey, you know, anybody know if somebody always complains about the relationship? She said this, she said that. But they still stay in that relationship where it's like, yeah, I'm not. See the communication. I could have caused somebody that had been through that trauma to relive that trauma just by the words I was using.

Speaker A: So that's the point. Uh, you know, I want to go back to is words lead to feelings. I mean, this is not rocket science. Now, that's not to say that you have to be careful about every single word and you have to think about it all the time. But you must understand. Going back to your earlier question, how do you get better at communication? You must understand this principle first, because if you're not even aware of it. You see, Jeremy, most of the speaking we do, like even I'm doing right now, is unconscious. It would be conscious if I stopped and thought about every word. And if all you're going to do is have no understanding of how important words are, uh, and what they can do to a person, then you can never really get on that communication journey.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's so true. 100%. Now, I want to talk about this. Like, what are some of your favorite books on communication? Uh, Maybe the top three books you'd recommend, or four or five books. Maybe you have 20 books. But what are some of the top books you would recommend? People or even training programs? I love books. Books, though, don't really cause you to master communication. It's like an overview because you're just reading the words. You're not hearing the tone that comes with those words. But maybe give us some books or training programs you feel are really, really good to help people really master communication. Hey, guys, I just put everything I'm going through in this video in a PDF built specifically for you. You can get it in the link below. There's going to be a description box. Get that there. It's going to have the principles, the highlights, everything I have there. You can read it, study it, grow from it. Make sure you get that. And let's get back to the video.

Speaker A: I'll start with the books. Um, you know, one of the greatest books, I would say, is Influence M by Cialdini.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He's the, uh, head of behavioral science here at Arizona State University, just 20 miles south of here.

Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, he. I mean, that book, not only does it initially, it might appear that it applies in marketing and business, and it does. If you, if you think about it, a lot of those principles apply in our personal lives. You know, the law, the idea of reciprocation.

Speaker B: Yeah, true.

Speaker A: That's a, That's a great book. And, um.

Speaker B: Influence, right? That's great book. Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, some of the ideas like consistency, and it goes back to our earlier point. If for me to be consistent with what you Said is an easier way for me to get my point across to you.

Speaker B: Valid.

Speaker A: Yeah. So that I can meet you where you're at. Right. So listening to the words talks, um, about social proof.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Authority.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And reciprocation.

Speaker B: Some social persuasion. I like. He talks about social persuasion. Right. So if you can, let's say, show, uh, you know, uh, hundreds or thousands of testimonials, you have social persuasion. Right. It's undeniable that whatever you do is effective or works. Like, you could be a general manager at a car dealership. And if you could, if you start posting all these pictures of, you know, clients, uh, with you, like over and over each day, you're showing that audience that, wow, what you do is helping people solve problems and get what they want. See, it doesn't matter. You could sell life insurance. You could be, uh, you could be a stay at home parent that's taking care of their kids. Right. But you're, you're showing that social proof every day.

Speaker A: I mean, you can see there's no point fighting who we are as a species. These are the things that influence us. And even in a personal context, if you want to, um, get a point across to your partner or to your children or to your team, why not show them some social proof first before you make your friends here?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's, it's one thing that we do with all of our, our new salespeople. And I've even found, you know, like salespeople, let's say they had a bad week, they'll be like, you know, what really helped me is I went through all of our testimonials because we capture, we try to capture all client testimonies as much as we can. Right. So we have a little bit over, uh, filming this right now, a little bit, a little bit under 24,000 testimonials in the last four years. It's a, it's a lot. But we, we have a lot of clients. Uh, those are ones we found. Those are just all clients, not like from free YouTube videos or something like that. But sometimes, you know, like even our reps, like when we onboard them, when we give them like this Google Drive, here's 24,000 testimonials. It's social proof that they know what they're selling. Helps people and companies solve problems and get where they want to be. So it gives them a lot of drive, it gives them a lot of certainty that what we do, what they're selling actually works. But if you go into a company, let's Say doesn't have much testimonials, right? They, your. Your salespeople don't really have that belief that what they're selling is really going to help people. And I, after a while, they, they start to want that, right? They, they crave, like, hey, I want to know that what I'm selling really helps people. Because I think, I think most people, even if they get into sales, like, just strictly, I want to make a bunch of money, I think at the end of the day, salespeople get burned out if they don't really believe in what they're doing.

Speaker A: And I think if you, if you believe in what you're doing and whether as a business owner or a salesperson and you have conviction about it, you know it works, you know it's a good service or a product, uh, then one shouldn't hold back from providing social proof. And I think, uh, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on it. What do you think stops people from sharing social proof? Because I actually personally have met people who said, nah, I don't want to show off. Can you believe that?

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, here's the thing. Like, I think that showing off to me would be like, let's say you buy a Lamborghini and you're driving down the road, you're like, hey, guys, I'm in my new Lamborghini. Like, and you're taking all these pictures around your Lamborghini and that kind of stuff. I think the world has moved away from that type of influence. I don't think it's very influential now. I would like. It's great if you have a Lamborghini. I personally think they look like alien ships. I'm more like a Bentley, Mercedes, uh, Range Rover guy. That's the. I'm more like classy. That's how I view it. No offense to my friends who have Lamborghinis. I still love you. But if you got a Lambo record content just driving down the road, don't even bring up that you're in a Lambo. People will see it. They'll see the stitching. They'll just notice. And to me, that raises your status because you don't have to brag about it. I, uh, look at a sports figure that would do. That would be like Tom Brady. How often do you hear Tom Brady be like, I'm the greatest quarterback in the world. I am the number one, most. The greatest quarterback. Nobody will ever be as good as me. You'd start to resent that, dude. You'd be like, that guy sucks.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What an idiot. He doesn't have to do that. He just goes out and performs right. And the society rates or views him as the greatest quarterback because he backed it up. Right? So I, uh, think that social persuasion is like, hey, if you've got a really nice car, do some content. But don't say, I'm in my brand new G Wagon, you know, I'm in my brand new Ferrari. Just drive down the road, people will notice, uh, you got the thing up here. People will see the steering wheel, they'll see the stitching like. And that raises your status because you're not bragging about it.

Speaker A: I think you're right. I think some of that stuff has left a bad taste in people's mouth. But the point I think you and I both are, um, making is if you're in business or if you're doing something great, you want to make a point. You know, be proud of the social proof you have, because that is part of, of the formula for persuasion. I think it's very important. And it's a lot of the conditioning and, you know, I mean, we can go down that rabbit hole if you like. A lot of the conditioning and people feel guilty. People feel like, you know, even. Listen, people even feel bad about succeeding. A. Ah, lot of people feel bad.

Speaker B: Why do they feel bad? What's the core thing? It's because they have a fear. Of what? Change.

Speaker A: Fear of change? Fear of judgment. They.

Speaker B: Fear of change. The fear of judgment. Okay. Of how people view them in society. Right. But if you want to communicate your message, you have to get people to view you at a higher status in whatever that message is or that, uh, whatever your knowledge is, you have to get them to view you like, you know, it's like me talking to a billionaire. I'm not a billionaire, so why would a billionaire listen to me? Well, if I started talking about, like, finance and economics to a billionaire, he might view me at a lower status because he has, you know, way more money than I do. But if I start talking about how, you know, he can communicate his message this way and, you know, use his tone this way and, you know, ask these type of questions rather than what his PR firms putting out. He starts to now view me at a higher status in the subject of communication, persuasion and sales. Right. He doesn't even think about, oh, well, he's not a billionaire. He thinks like, wow, he knows a lot about persuasion and sales. Like, maybe I should listen to this guy. So whatever your expertise is when you talk about that, okay, uh, you don't brag about it like, we have this, we have that. Just talk about your knowledge and people will raise your status in their mind from your knowledge and what you're communicating.

Speaker A: It's like in sales, right? If you sit there and brag about your product, I'm sure you would agree that's not the best way to sell anything. Even if your product is mind blowingly good, nobody cares. It goes back to the same principles. You'd be, you'd be learning about the client and you would only propose something. And this is something we, we talk about in neuro linguistics. You'd only propose something once you know the need. Have you asked enough questions? Have you got enough rapport? Have you really understood them? Now you know what their problem is. Now you know what they need. Now if the solution is right for them, you would connect the solution.

Speaker B: Yeah, to solve the problems.

Speaker A: But if you just started talking about how. And this is what happens, right? If you go to a shopping mall, people are just chasing you, trying to sell you stuff. And what do we do? We just walk.

Speaker B: We run away, right? We run away. It's this, I mean, it's literally like, as I think about all of this stuff, it's the same in your relationships, it's the same if you're trying to date somebody. I'll give you an example. You know, um, you know, my girlfriend, I remember she made a comment to me, she said, you know what? Because she, she was, she's from Miami, I live here in Scottsdale. And she said, you know, I'm so used to guys coming up to me and talking about like, hey, I want to take you to my yacht. I want to, I want to buy you a new home. I want to take you on my private plane. I want to, you know, I'm going to give you a Lambo. I'm going to give you all this money. And like in the first 10 minutes, they're just bragging about all the stuff they have. And she was like, to women, it's a, um, to most women, it's a major turn off because all they're doing is talking about how great they are. And they hear that all the time. So they just view you like everybody else, like, oh, just another rich guy that wants me for, you know, bad reasons. But she's like, when, when, she's like, when I started talking to you, you never bragged once about anything. She's like, I didn't even know if you had 10 cents or, you know, whatever. She's like, I didn't know what car you drove. We just started talking about like influence and, and persuasion and like psychology, uh, and sociology and those type of things. And she viewed me automatically as white, like higher status in that subject because of my knowledge. And she even tried to ask me what I was doing. Like, oh, you'd probably get bored. You know, I downplayed it. And she's like, when you downplayed it, that made me feel like you were like, really successful because you didn't act like you cared. Right, right. You weren't trying to get rid of it. Like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm unemployed, I'm in my mom's basement. You weren't saying that, but you downplayed it in like kind of a playful tone, like, oh, you, you'd probably get bored if I went over the. You, you wouldn't even know. It'd be boring stuff for you. Like, what do you do? And because I downplayed it in her brain, it made her kind of upplay it and make it a bigger deal. That's a subject. It's mismatching. We'll talk about that here in a while. But it's everything you do. It's how you communicate either raises your status in someone's mind that you're talking to, or it lowers your status.

Speaker A: Yeah, what I love about this conversation is the interconnectedness of, um, communication, persuasion, mindset, emotions. And the foundational principles are strong. I mean, you could go, you could learn this a million times and it's never going to get old. It's never going to change. It's human behavior. It's the process of persuasion. And I love reading this conversation.

Speaker B: Yeah, let's keep going here. So what should you do when someone is being passive aggressive with you? That's an interesting word. What should they do? If somebody's being passive aggressive with them, what should they do?

Speaker A: Yeah, this, this idea of passive aggressive, you know, first we gotta understand what that means. This person is potentially. They, you know, they're trying to make a point. They're not just coming out and saying it necessarily how it is. Maybe they're just being aggressive, but not in the very stereotypical way. Mhm. First thing, I think we have a. There's a concept we call as sensory acuity.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Is noticing what is happening. You know, the idea of observing people. Now, first thing you want don't want to do is you don't want to react. Right. If you don't want to react, I think you just want to observe and understand what's going on. And again, um, I'm going to go back to what we've been discussing is you want to utilize the process of asking questions if it's really concerning you, if it's a pattern that's been going on for a very long time. You need to find out and you can, you cannot find out by reacting to that. You're gonna have to ask some questions.

Speaker B: What questions? Uh, in your mind. I know this is all based on the context, but what's maybe a question you might ask uh, someone in the workplace that maybe is being passive aggressive with you, like trying to force you to do something, but kind of in not like, hey, you need to do this, but they're passively, like they're being a passive aggressively doing it. And you can feel that any question you might ask them or what would, what would you think there?

Speaker A: One of the style of questioning, Jeremy, that um, I've found very useful. It's something we teach people who, you know, become life coaches or uh, neuro linguistic practitioners or even hypnosis practitioners, is a process of chunking down. Right? Chunking down means what? Find out the details and, and something very simple is what specifically do you mean? Or how specifically do you mean? It sounds very simple, but it's very powerful because in the person considering that question, it could lead to a change, a shift and the energy of that spot. In fact, this question, what specifically or how specifically was used by one of the um, pioneers in family therapy called Virginia Satir. Okay. And this, what it can do is it can displace resistance.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: So a lot of times people generalize, distort and delete information. So it's like someone saying nobody listens to me. Who specifically does not listen to who?

Speaker B: Or you, you never listen to me or you're always mean to me. Right. So I learned, I uh, don't know if you've ever like Landmark Form.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So I went to Landmark Forum probably, I don't know, probably about 15, 16 years ago. I was like, like yeah, this is like late 20s, early 30s, 15 years ago or so. And uh, what they always, they teach you, they teach you a lot of stuff, but they always, they always teach you like, hey, you can't label the other person because they're just going to get defensive. So when you words like you're always mean to me, of course the other person's going to get defensive. Right. Or you never do this, you never take out the trash? Well, never. Or you don't take out the trash. As much as I'd like you to take out the trash. So if I reworded it to like, you know, babe, like, you don't take out the trash very much, how can we improve that rather than like, you never take out the trash. Never is like an absolute word. It's like so overboard. Never, always. You know, it's like these labels that we put on people that automatically make them defensive.

Speaker A: There's a technical term we use for these kind of words. Always. Never, never, ever. Everybody, everyone. Uh, the term we use is universal quantifiers. Have a look at the term universal quantifiers.

Speaker B: I like that.

Speaker A: And the style of questioning that I'm talking about, if someone is saying that to you, let's say they don't have that communication skill, but they're saying that you want to be armed with this questioning style. What specifically? How specifically? Have you ever. What would happen if there's some really powerful questions?

Speaker B: Hold on. Is it I never take out the trash? Or just. Would it possibly be like, maybe you'd like for me to take out the trash more than I do?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah, Okay. I would make. Oh, okay, okay. I just want to make sure. Because I. I'm like, I. Because I took out the trash last night. I don't remember. Whatever. So it's like, it's. It's how you say that. I love that. Um, okay, so what's a psychology hack you can use to keep any conversation going? An audience member asked that. What's a psychology hack you can use to keep any conversation going?

Speaker A: Well, you know, great communicators of all time, Jeremy. Great linguists were, um. Sorry. Great communicators in any field were always great linguists. Number two.

Speaker B: Go back to that. What does that mean if somebody doesn't know what a great linguist is? Maybe describe that to them.

Speaker A: Just a strong grasp of language and another way I'd put it is. Would understand what's happening below the language. I'll, uh, come back to that in a moment. But the point I want to make here is the second thing that great communicators have always had is the ability to direct a conversation. Right. To take it where they want it

Speaker B: to go, reframe it. That's what we would call it. You're reframing their way of thinking over to a different way.

Speaker A: Reframing is very important. But the other thing they're able to do is to intentionally make it abstract.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Or what we call artfully vague or specific. There's a process Called chunking up, Chunking down. So you're hearing a point. If you were to just ask yourself or the other person, even ask yourself before you come to response, for what purpose? What's the intention? This is a process of getting access to more vague, abstract ideas to present. And then you can go into the detail only as quickly as you are getting the information you want. So that's how I would answer that is to be able to direct a conversation, do you need to be more abstract or do you need to get more specific? You see, most disagreements, Jeremy, happen in the detail.

Speaker B: Okay, that, uh, valid. Yeah.

Speaker A: And if you look at the way politicians respond and, you know, leaders who are often seen in the public space, you'll notice that when they're asked questions, have you ever noticed that they keep the answer fairly vague?

Speaker B: It's very vague. And I think that's good in some contexts, but I think it actually hurts them in some context, because sometimes when you're very, very vague on policy positions, people are just like, uh. Or I'll give you an example. At a debate, the moderator will ask a question, and it's like the politician never answers the question. They're like, well, you know, it could be that way, but, you know, president. Blah, blah, blah, blah. He didn't do that. You know, it's like you didn't really answer the question. And so if you're. If you're, you know, look, maybe if you're like, on the extreme right or the extreme left, you're okay with that. But if you're more like in the center, it's like, which is what most of the United states is like 40, almost 50%. We're kind of sitting there like, they never really answered the question. It's so vague.

Speaker A: I think in that context, I agree. Um, you know, they're utilizing that skill set, but it's not being as effective. But the context in which I want to talk about is agreement and disagreement. Right. So many times if you're at home and if you're too much in the details in a conversation, say, with your partner and the kids, there is way more room for disagreement.

Speaker B: That's valid. Yeah, I could see that in that context. That makes sense.

Speaker A: Then sometimes you just have to chunk up one level so that there can be more agreement and then chunk down again. So that's a communication technique. I think people. I believe people need that in business. They need that at home, and they definitely need that in persuasion and sales.

Speaker B: That's very true. What are some tips for balancing family in Business. You know, we have a lot of, I, uh, mean we, we have a lot of entrepreneurs that, that, you know, that will be watching this. We have a lot of salespeople, sales executives, sales leadership roles, uh, CEOs, that type of thing. How can, how can salespeople or people in business or really any walks of life, how can they balance that work life balance in a realistic way, not like the four hour work week way. And hey, no offense, I love that book. I think it's a great book. Great marketing, uh, just, you know, sometimes when you have a family, I'm not sure I could do the four hour work week and balance everything. How can they balance it realistically?

Speaker A: Look, I'm going to get a little bit philosophical about this. I think, um, you know, the idea that you have to, it's okay for us to give up something in order to get something else. If you're going to look at anyone, great. You know, there is a level of sacrifice. And I think firstly it's about understanding if you're going to have both, you may not have both at the same level. And there are different times in our life. The family needs more attention, for example, when you got little children, than perhaps your work. So I think it's, it's the idea of balance in itself can uh, be problematic for a lot of people to understand. Yeah, I believe it's, it's about what's more important right now, where is their problems occurring. And then I mean if, if you want to go harder in your career and uh, your work, it's, it may require you to be away from home longer, then you need your communication.

Speaker B: It's, it's true. It's like, it's like how do you, how do you balance that? Because I remember, you know, when I was, man, I was in my early 20s, like 21, you know, I, I, I got married to my first wife. You know, we're, we're divorced. But I remember my first wife when I was just barely turned 22 and she was 19. We were both really, really young. Okay. And I remember I was still in school, uh, but I'd done really well as a salesperson. And I got promoted to like a sales manager, then a general sales manager. And then like a year later I was the vice president of sales. I think I was 23, Vice President of sales of a pretty decently sized company, uh, that had hundreds of salespeople, uh, in the United States. And I remember I was 23, 24, and I was traveling all the time and I had Two kids at that time. And then I had another couple by the time I was like 27, 28. And I look back and I'm m. Like, man, I really had no work life balance. I was all about my career. Just gone, gone, gone. You know, and that made a lot of money and got promoting everything. But now, you know, I got remarried and divorced again. That's a whole nother subject. Been divorced twice. But, uh, that's okay. We're all, we're all.

Speaker A: Maybe there were some communication matters.

Speaker B: Exactly. Right. We're all friends. Right. Uh, and we have a daughter together and she's six. And now I really. And I still am. I travel and have to do keynotes and I'm gone. But there's a lot of things that I turn down that I would have never turned down in my early 20s because I don't want to make that same mistake. Right. Because with my six year old, you know, like, there's weeks where I could do keynote trains like every single weekend for like 12 weeks straight. But I only want to do two, two keynotes a month. So I will turn down four, five, six different keynotes, especially if they're on a weekend, because I'm like, I want to be there with my six year old, I want to take her to the arcades, I want to do things with her. And so, you know, now that I'm in my 40s, I think about those sayings a lot more than, you know, sometimes when you're younger and like hustling and you just don't really care about anything. And I think that's something to really consider for everybody watching for sure.

Speaker A: I think for a lot of the younger entrepreneurs and you know, look, it's great to have goals and um, I'm, by no means, I'd be suggesting that don't go after your dreams, but I think the question, you need to ask yourself some, you know, questions and what is important to me is another questioning frame they can use with yourself. What would happen if, what would happen if I went all in on my work right now first, at least understand, does that, uh, does that mean you're going to be away from home more? Do you have little children? So I think it's, it's just that,

Speaker B: I think it's just a balance, balancing act.

Speaker A: But we must ask ourselves what's important to me and what would happen if I continued this way?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And sometimes when it comes to goals, all it is is maybe you're just lengthening the period of time you're still Going to get there. At least you wouldn't have lost a lot of things along the way that are important to you.

Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of times, you know, I might wake up like if I've got like something I really got to get done, a project. And uh, you know, instead of working on the weekends from like eight to five every day on the weekends, like I'll get up at like 4 or 5 in the morning and from like 4:30 till 8:30, I'll get it all done. And then, you know, my six year old wakes up, I go over to my ex's house, pick her up and we have a great day. But I just, I had to wake up a little bit earlier. Right. So I went to bed a little bit early the night before, wake up a little bit early. So there's always a way you can do it. Like you know, from like 7:30 or 8 to 5, like I'm in here getting stuff done or I'm an event and getting stuff done. But you know, after those hours I want to spend that quality time with her. And sometimes, I'll admit, sometimes I'll get on the phone, I'll check my slack, there's a hundred messages while I'm eating dinner with her and I'm like, you know, I got to put the phone down and when she goes to bed at 8:30, I'll pick it up back then. And sometimes that's a struggle for me. Like even though I know better, it still sometimes is like tempting, you know, when you're.

Speaker A: Look, this is a real, it's a, it's a real thing. I um, mean, it's a real issue for a lot of people. And again with all of the stuff we've been discussing today, you know, uh, communication, like if you want to go harder at your work for a little while because you, there are reasons why we need to.

Speaker B: Sure. Especially in the beginning. We're trying to scale.

Speaker A: Then there has to be communication in a certain way with your family members. Yeah. And that's the danger for a lot of people because that communication is not occurring and they're not feeling heard and understood while you're out there going for your dreams. And I think this is.

Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe you feel like, hey, you know, my partner doesn't support me in my dreams. I'm trying to do this for her or him or whatever, you know, so

Speaker A: sometimes I'm gonna chunk up, chunk down and we've got to meet people where they're at and just make sure.

Speaker B: And it's, and it's just a, um, it's compromising. Yeah. Right now I. I do. I am a big believer. If the person you're with is really holding you back from your dreams, it needs to be like a really serious conversation about it. And you know, you're supportive of what they want to do in life. But hey, like, I'm doing this for you. Maybe support me in my dreams. Especially if you're like, dating somebody, like, check and see. Like, are they really supportive of where you want to go in your career? Right. Because if they're not supportive, if they're always upset at you all the time, really want to consider that before you go to the next step and get married to them. You really do.

Speaker A: I agree.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm m Assuming your wife is supportive. She's here, right? She's here with you. She's probably supportive. Right. Okay. So one last question. M. What's a magic phrase you can use to get anyone to tell you the truth? Like magical phrases that you can get somebody to open up and tell you the truth.

Speaker A: A couple of their phrases that I love to use personally and ah, especially when people feel they don't know. That's one thing. I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker B: Or they, you, um, ask them a question like, I don't really know. Yeah.

Speaker A: Or they're unconsciously not coming out with it. There could be something holding them back. I think to make it softer. Tonality matters. I love this question. What if you were to know.

Speaker B: I like that.

Speaker A: Just that little. Were to know.

Speaker B: The kind of soft concern tone. I'll give you one that we train a lot of companies and reps to ask in pretty much any space is if you ask a question like, uh, I'm not really sure. Well, if you really thought about it, you're just looping back around asking a different question. We call that you're just looping it. Well, if you really thought about it, what would it be? And literally when you. Well, if you really thought about it, it forces the brain to really think about. Because when you ask the first question, it's like kind of a surface question, surface level question. And they like, they don't, they just, they don't even think, they don't internalize it. So that's just them reacting, saying, oh, I don't really know. Like they didn't really even think about it. No, they didn't think about it. They didn't think about it. Yeah. So if you just like, well, if you really thought about it and then it's like you see Their head go like this and it's like the brain is like starting to compute and now they're starting to think about it. That's a really good.

Speaker A: Suddenly they come with the end. There's another one that I really like, Jeremy, and it's worked for me fabulously because I'm always out there intervening with people, you know, helping them break through. And you say, can you pretend, you

Speaker B: know, Pretend, you know, what would it be? Maybe. Oh, that's good. I like that incredible book. Can I borrow that one?

Speaker A: Result more than 90% of the time. And the answer is real.

Speaker B: Yeah. Wait, so pretend you knew.

Speaker A: What would it be?

Speaker B: That tone. Yeah, I like that. Can I, can I borrow that one? Yeah, sure. Oh, I like that. That's a really good one. Here's another one. You can borrow this one. Like, hey, what's now. This is off the record now. I'm going to go post it on your social media. What's really holding you back? You know, off the record, you know, it's like when the journalists say, hey, this interview's off the record. Tell me the truth. You know, it. I don't know what it is, but just that saying, you know, I probably. I started doing that early on in my career. I heard a sales trainer say that once. I think he worded it some way, a different way. I word it differently with the different tone. But he's like, he'll just tell him it's off the record. I'm like, oh, that's a really good. Hey, off. Like, if somebody's like, not moving forward and they're procrastinating and they won't buy. Okay. Can I, can I ask. Ask you something, John? Sure, go ahead. And hey, this is off the record. I'm not going to go post it on your social media. See, now I'm playful tone. What's really holding you back from moving forward or what's really holding you back from moving forward so you can really get your brand out there? Like, if you're a marketing agency, I can repeat back the end result of whatever you do. What's really holding you back from moving forward so you really secure your network or, uh, you know, if I'm selling cybersecurity, I mean, it could be anything. Like, what's really holding you back from moving forward to make sure sending the kids are financially taken care of when you pass. Like, if I sold life insurance, it's in my tone. That soft concern tone.

Speaker A: That's a word. I think the word really is also very important here. It has such an impact. One word.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: In the context of what we do, we help people break through problems. There's a question that I love to use. Yeah. You know, people often we have this, this idea called presenting problem. When someone tells us a problem.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: We never treat it as factual.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Because it, most of the time it is.

Speaker B: It.

Speaker A: We call it a presenting problem.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: That presupposes that there is something else below that. Yeah. Right. So we'll receive that information. Yeah. And one of the other things we'd always do is we'll let the person speak. Yeah. A second time. Yeah. Then we'll say, joan, what is this really about? And you will be amazed.

Speaker B: That tone. But it's your tone because you're like, what's this really all about, man?

Speaker A: This is really about, I think the emphasis on really. Yeah. It's a tough, It's a tone to help somebody.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Listen, everybody says, I want to help people. Yeah. I'm sorry, but you cannot help people if you do not know how to communicate.

Speaker B: Uh, speaking to the choir brother like you, if you don't know how to communicate, you're going to have a lot of struggles with a lot of things, work, uh, you know, business, relationships, everything. You're just going to really struggle because you don't know how to communicate. And to me, like, what's holding back from somebody learning how to communicate? Like, it's the most vital skill you can possess. It doesn't matter if you're, I call that even if you're not in a one out of everybody, eight people in the world is in a sales position that gets paid to make a sale, but the other seven out of eight people are still out there trying to influence, persuade and convince. I call that non sales selling. You don't get paid a commission for it, but you're still trying to influence people. Right. You're trying to influence people to, you know, bike, you know, to take care of your cat. When you're, when you're on holiday, you're trying to, you know, you're trying to convince Uncle Joe to come over to, uh, roast, uh, hot dogs and watch the football game with you. Like you're always, it doesn't matter what you're doing, you're trying to persuade, influence, convince. If you're a politician trying to get people to vote for you, you're trying to persuade.

Speaker A: It's everywhere, all the time. I think you're so right. I think people, it's just our conditioning. So a lot of people have A very negative connection with the word sales.

Speaker B: Well, why, though? That's the question.

Speaker A: It's called in a negative internal representation. Because of what they saw, heard and felt.

Speaker B: Because of the way how salespeople have been taught how to communicate triggers that. Right. If, if we're like pushy, aggressive, um, you know, overbearing, high pressure sales. Society doesn't like that. Like human beings, like salespeople don't like to be sold that way. So it's. I always wonder, like, wait a minute, you're using those techniques to try to sell, yet when salespeople try to use those techniques on you, you don't like them. I'm like, do you not see the equation, like beats. You're lying because you're a human now, that doesn't mean you get to the end of a conversation or conversations and be like, well, uh, let me know if you're interested. I guess just get back to me. You're not going to sell anything that way either. So what I mean, I mean, the most persuasive way to sell, the most aggressive way to sell is when you learn techniques where the prospect doesn't feel like they were being sold to.

Speaker A: That's it.

Speaker B: That's the most aggressive.

Speaker A: Nobody likes being sold to nobody. Wait, nobody gets up and says, hey, I just got sold a house.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's like, look, you want to be aggressive at selling, learn techniques where the prospect doesn't ever feel like they were sold to. In fact, they feel like you did them a favor by you letting them pay you to solve their problems and give them. That's the most aggressive way to sold. Because they don't feel like they were sold. Because if you're pushing aggressive, they feel like they're being sold. So they're going to push back.

Speaker A: No one.

Speaker B: Right. That no one likes it.

Speaker A: And I think that's the. Going back to the point about sales, a, uh, lot of people listen, there's bad apples in any industry.

Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Um, but the reality is that I would say to people, if you have not decided, if you have. There is nothing in your life that you've decided to master.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or you feel like you don't have that one thing you want to be great at. Yeah. I will pick communication. And one of the best ways to become a good communicator fast. Is to become. And here comes a salesperson.

Speaker B: I agree. Yeah.

Speaker A: Because if you get the right training and you're every day having to be in those interactions. Yeah. You're going to become great at Great at communication. Yeah.

Speaker B: Well, even one of my, you know, I've got a couple of my, uh, daughters that, that work for me at seventh level and I. One of my daughters, Quincy, she's on our, she's on our customer service team. Uh, she, she's up there like answering support tickets every day. But where she started three years ago was on our DM team. So when people would start following me on social media, uh, you know, I probably now would probably have 15 or 20 people on my social media DMing people back. But back in those days, maybe three or four and she was one of the original ones and she, after about a year and a half of that, she got used to all these conversations getting people to book on the calendars with our, uh, sales executives and those type of things. So now she goes to customer service, even through email. She is really talented at communicating the right way where the client feels heard, they feel understood, they feel like her, their issue. You know, maybe they, they, they didn't get something on time that they were promised or something. She helps resolve that because of where she learned. She wasn't talking to people on the phone, but she was persuading, influencing in the DMs, getting them to book and building a gap about their problems about lack of sales or whatever. And so that has helped her in her life be able to communicate with her boyfriend and be able to m. Communicate with people that she might be influencing for some reason.

Speaker A: You can see how much that'll help in your personal life. Yeah, really pleased to hear that. I think that's, you know, I'm going to say something a little bit off the wall here. I believe that if you, if you're in, in the, whether you're a business owner or you're in, you're in the work of sales, which I know you, you help so many people with. Um, you know, I think there's a lot of spiritual growth in that because you got to get up every day and you got to face yourself.

Speaker B: Well, I'm a big believer. You know, the reason why I called seven level, seventh level is because, uh, my minor in uh, in college, a lot of people don't know this. This is the boring geek Jeremy. But my minor, and so my major is behavioral science, uh, emphasis on, you know, social dynamics, human psychology. But my minor was in um, world, uh, religions and like New Testament Christianity. So what, what I, from an historical point of view. So what, what I learned from studying like any religion, okay. Like whether it was uh, Hinduism or Islam or Judaism, um, Or Christianity or even, you know, you know, ancient Mesopotamia. What do they believe? And they all. Pretty much all major religion on the planet that we have any history of one thing that they all believed. Now, they might not believe it now because it's. It's, you know, Christianity is morphed. It's different than what it was when, you know, the early church fathers were here before. I won't go into the details. Before the rise of Roman Catholicism. And one thing that all religions believed that where God dwelt was, uh, that there was different levels of the afterlife. Okay, not just like one heaven, one hell, that there were different levels of the afterlife. And God dwelt literally at the seventh level. Seventh level means more perfection. Like he, you know, God is perfected, right? He's not. He's, uh, not a, uh, man that he sends or he's mortal, right? So in every religion, they believe this core belief that God dwelt at this highest level. And in order to obtain what he has, you had to keep the commandments, you had to repent, you know, be good to other people, because we're judged by those things. Except as, you know, if you're a Christian, accept his son, Jesus Christ and Savior, you know, if you're not Christian, other things. And so that core belief, that's why I call the company seventh level, because it's our communication skills. We want to perfect our communication skills. To me, you know, I didn't start this company just for salespeople and companies to sell more. I started this company to change the way sales and communication is perceived in society. You know, that's our. That's our. Our mission. We do that one salesperson time, one company a time, one human being at a time. I might not be here, you know, to see all that happen, you know, but at least I'm laying the groundwork. You know, it might take 300 years because you think about it that, you know, in every. Most religions believe that before this life, before this earth was created, uh, that there was this war in heaven, right? This great war in heaven, right? And I never thought about it, uh, when I was a kid, like in Sunday school, listening to the, you know, the. The bishop or whatever talk about this war in heaven. But, you know, in the last, like, 15, 20 years, I'm like, well, what. What was the war fought with? Were they fighting with guns or tanks or bullets or swords? No, it was a war of words. It was a war of persuasion. It was a war of influence. See, that's what the war in heaven Was fought with. Right. So for some people, you know, some, some have, you know, followed God's plan, others followed Satan's plan. Right. And they were cast to this earth. But it was a war of persuasion. It was a war of influence. It was a war of words. Questions. Right. It wasn't a war with guns. And so to me, like, uh, like you, communication is more of a spiritual thing for me.

Speaker A: I'm glad we agree on that. I think that's important for anyone watching this. That, of course, we're very, very practical and we want to talk about the things that really make a difference right now to your personal life, your financial life and all that. But in reality, I feel that if, uh, someone who takes this path, um, and they do what they need to do, they're going to grow as a person in an enormous way.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. Well, hey, Raj. Uh, uh, that was a great, great, uh, meeting. Uh, thanks for, thanks for being on having that interview. Where can people learn more about you,

Speaker A: Jeremy, and what you do? Yeah, so I run a company called Neuromasters Academy, uh, and we essentially help a lot of people overcome their personal problems. You know, uh, procrastination fears, a lot of that through neuro linguistics, neuro linguistic programming, and hypno and, excuse me, hypnotherapy. We also train a lot of people to go out and do this work for other people. I mean, I've lost count right now of the amount of people that have literally written back to me and said, I used to be suicidal. I'm not anymore. So that's another sort of, sort of people we help through our trainings. We have training programs that generally live. And of course, we have high performers athletes. Uh, I personally work with elite level athletes, uh, CEOs, business owners, salespeople as well, who want to get more out of themselves who are getting stuck or getting held back.

Speaker B: So. Neuromastersacademy.com neuromastersacademy.com make sure everybody goes there. NeuromastersacademY.com Check out what Reg and his team are doing, because, you know, maybe you bring them in here to, you know, maybe you're CEO of a company and you want to, you know, teach your employees how to better communicate with each other to get their point of views across. Right. Uh, or maybe you're an individual salesperson who wants to, like, really learn how to maybe better communicate with your family or whatever it is. But make sure you go to his website.

Speaker A: Thanks, Jeremy. That's a key point. I forgot to mention that in our trainings, we are helping people absolutely master the art of communication because it'll help them therapeutically to get more of themselves and everything else, personal and business. The communication is critical for me. When I teach it, we go all

Speaker B: in on that number one skill you can learn on the planet. Now, listen, if you want, uh, more interviews like this, if you want to learn more skill sets like this, your next step, go and hit the subscribe button to this channel. Typically, I release about two to three, uh, you know, these training videos every single week. My only suggestion is, look, if you want to share this with somebody, make sure you don't share it with your competitors because I promise you, you don't want them to learn what we're going to train you here on this channel. Only share it with people you don't compete with. All right, get out of here. Enjoy it. We'll see you on the next. Next time we have one of these.