Escape The Hamster Wheel Trap®, with Peter Boolkah

Speaker A: My guest today on the Neil Wilkins podcast is Peter Balkan. Now, Peter believes that most business owners don't have a growth problem, but they've actually got a founder dependency problem. Now, over the last 20 years, Peter's worked with entrepreneurs across multiple continents and spent thousands, literally thousands of hours helping businesses and, um, their founders build companies that actually don't rely on them. Over the years, Peter's actually realized something, that the very business that, um, owners and entrepreneurs have started has actually become the thing that's owned them. And he's given this problem the name the hamster wheel trap. And that is what we are going to explore in this podcast. Peter, welcome.

Speaker B: Neil, thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be speaking to a fellow British.

Speaker A: I know, I know. There's, uh, yes, it's a very international thing, this podcast world, isn't it? And, uh, yes, when you get a fellow Brit on the show, it's, uh, oh, we've, we've landed. We're at home. M. So here we go. I think this is, uh, this is all good. But of course, this does apply to our US Audience and Canadian audience as well, obviously. So, Peter, let's begin from the beginning. Before we get into the. The concepts that we're going to be talking about today, I'm just really, really interested to, um, to kind of sort of, I guess, settle into your background and your kind of experience there, because, you know, thousands and thousands of hours with entrepreneurs and, you know, you don't do that unqualified, and you also find that that is going to bring, I guess, you know, a whole host of thinking, reflections, ideas. It's quite an interesting journey.

Speaker B: It, uh, is. And I literally waited 20 years to write the book. Actually, when you go back to the journey. Journey, Journey. My journey first started back at McDonald's as a kid, to be fair. I mean, have you ever seen a film coming to America?

Speaker A: I certainly have,

Speaker B: yeah. Well, put it this way, the first job is not. The first job was not washing the lettuce. The first job was, for me, cleaning out the trash room. And that was the most disgusting job I've ever done. So I, uh. It motivated me to learn very quickly and become more valuable in that organization. So I never clean the trash room again. So I think within six weeks, I was no longer cleaning trash rooms, which was a small mercy. But no, I did 16. I did 15 years with McDonald's, actually working my way up through the organization. And that was my corporate life until then I left and started really, I suppose the Journey of being a business owner, unwittingly. So I left McDonald's, bought an Italian restaurant thinking it would be a really good idea because I love cooking. Realized after a couple of weeks this wasn't really for me. I mean, yeah, cooking for four people versus cooking for like 150 people a day isn't quite the same thing. So sold that one. And you know what? The Italian restaurant was really interesting because I bought into somebody else's chaos. Although they were. They were making money and then, I mean, they were literally working like donkeys. It worked for them, don't get me wrong. But it just showed. It just showed me actually how McDonald's was all systemized and processed and how much I really, when I was working for McDonald's, took it for granted, thinking that the world was exactly the same everywhere. And actually it wasn't. And actually was very fortunate to come from a very structured environment, which I then started to put into the restaurant. And then when I left the restaurant, I was actually looking for my next corporate gig because actually I didn't think this owning your own business was going to be my kind of thing. So I was in between interviews and everything. A company at the time called Action Coach approached me. Would you be interested in having a look? I was curious. Wasn't interested, but curious. So I went along. And I wasn't going to do it until I met the final franchisee, sky, called Raymore. You know, sometimes people come into your life for a reason. He actually was a person and mentor I needed for that stage of my life. So I joined him. Um, we worked together for 15 years and the rest is history. 21 years later, I'm still here as a coach.

Speaker A: M an interesting journey there. And I think, you know, just the thing that kind of really, really strikes me there is this word process and kind of, I guess the structure that comes through from being within a large corporate that is very, very systems driven. I mean, yes, everybody thinks, say, of McDonald's as being front of house and the choice of food and the branding and everything else, but it's actually the genius in the whole model is the system. It is that corporate system and the structure and the processes that literally are so granular, people wouldn't believe until they actually know. And did you feel that that was really almost a good. Almost like an apprenticeship. It was your kind of training ground. You could see that processes are, uh, probably the most fundamental building block in business. And yet at the same time, if you're very aw, you can see where process improvements could be made. It's, it's quite an interesting dynamic, isn't it? The processes feel kind of quite set but actually in reality they are there to be improved.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. And McDonald's was not just process driven, it was training driven. So it was really hot on its training. I mean unbelievably so when I look back and I think about it, those systems, processes and trainings allowed us to put 20 year olds in charge of restaurants that were turning over 3 to 5 million 20 year olds. Can you believe that? I mean they were, they had significant responsibility. The other lesson I learned though is that systems and processes apply to the restaurant, not to drive in. And the amount of company cars that these kids had written off because as soon as they left the restaurant the hormonal idiot kicked in. Which you can't legislate for. We change your policy in the end and gave them a car allowance. If they want to ruin their own car, let them go ahead. But it's interesting, you can take a kid and if you train them to a system and process, look what they can do.

Speaker A: It's m interesting isn't it? Because almost like you're switching something on there that is you're part of, well, let's call it a hamster wheel. Um, just to kind of, I don't know, there'd be different hamster wheels that we're going to be talking about. But it, yeah, it feels like that process is something you kind of, you jump on, you have the ride, then you jump off and then you kind of go home and live the rest of your life as a human. It's, it's a very different kind of thing, isn't it? It's kind of part mindset, part following steps and stages. Obviously there's presumably a lot of reporting that goes on in terms of performance etc, very, very structured.

Speaker B: But that is why, look, that is why Michael E. Gerber in his book the E Myth revisited very much reference McDonald's being the grandfather of the turnkey business. And that is why McDonald's can categorically expand across the world. It can replicate its business model. And that's one of the things that most business owners cannot do. They can't replicate yesterday, let alone their business model consistently.

Speaker A: Mhm. And I guess was that the big awakening? I mean certainly through you know, obviously now many years of coaching and sort of guiding and I'm sure listening to a lot of both business owners, entrepreneurs, people within business, so the, the leaders within business as well. Is, is there a pattern there then that you're seeing that, you know, the pro almost process isn't really valued at the level that it could and should be.

Speaker B: Yes. So we'll take the UK market as an example. So according to the onslaught, we've got around 5.7 million small to medium sized privately owned businesses, of which 4.3 are solopreneurs. So think about logically, very few businesses will start up as a partnership, doesn't mean that they don't, but the numbers are quite low. So most people start off as a solopreneur. One man band. How many business owners do you actually know, Neil, that learn business before they go into business?

Speaker A: I'd say, well, almost none.

Speaker B: Yeah, look, I don't mean going on some sort of shitty university course taught by people in business. I've never done business. I'm actually looking at fundamentals. And you'll know this, I mean, you look at businesses when you start your business, your head of sales, head of marketing, head of finance, head of hr, in case you need to have a word with yourself, head of operations, you're ahead of everything. Now there are a lot of really deep topics there, but people do not actually learn about these different areas of the business. They just go, uh, I've got an idea, let me go with it. So it's no surprise there's no systemization and process because you can't do what you don't know. And if you haven't learned it, you're obviously not going to know it. And that's probably been the biggest pattern I've seen over 21 years, is these aren't, these are not dumb people at all, these are smart individuals. I mean, quite a few of them actually are neurodivergent in some form, whether they have adhd, dyslexia, they've got autism, which is also another interesting fact. But if you go back 40 years, we were probably taught back then, you need to work hard and working hard would make you successful. And actually, yes, to a degree it would do. Because 40 years ago computers were very much in their infancy. There was no email, it was all post. The world was such a slower, it was such a slower place. Today the world is manic. So actually today you can't just be a hard worker. Uh, you still have to be a hard worker, but you need to be a educated hard worker.

Speaker A: Do you think we're kind of almost fooling ourselves as people who maybe have a side hustle? They're employed and they're sort of looking to make this first jump or this first step into either self employment, as you say, as a solopreneur, or, you know, they're looking to kind of, you know, build the side hustle into something and they go straight into social media and you'll see loads and loads and loads of individuals and accounts who say, right, this is what you. Or this is all you need to do. Here are the top 10 tips of things you need to do. Do you think we've kind of sort of fooled ourselves over the last, say 10, 15 years and increasingly so to thinking that this thing is actually very easy to do because socials tells us so? Uh,

Speaker B: yeah, look, and I think we have to approach social with massive caution because half of what we see on social is, I'm afraid, and I'll give you one example, the Tate brothers and their Tate University and the fact actually, I mean I've never liked them and this whole, this whole sort of manscaping nonsense, but actually when you look at it, there was no substance to their stuff and you have all these young people buying into an unrealistic dream. They're setting them up for failure. So you're 100% right. And I think if it's too good to be true, then it's too good to be true. They won't have 10 tips that are going to make you a millionaire. Trust me, there may be a hundred books that will make you a millionaire, but there's no 10 tips on a 30 second TikTok.

Speaker A: And it's this thing as well about, you know, millionaire is not, not enough. Everything now is the currency is billionaire. You know, it's just this whole thing of scaling the kind of impracticality of it and, and I'm guessing even before we start to work with, you know, people who have taken the jump and actually they do have a business, they actually have got something and now it's starting to own them. We'll come on to that. But um, I'm guessing that there is this kind of series of hurdles that people go through in that whole process of getting there. And the first one is, I guess kind of self doubt and imposter syndrome because, you know, if there's all this thing about, you know, next year you're going to be a billionaire because the world keeps telling you that's true. And then everybody around you says, well, you're never going to do that. It's kind of really tough, isn't it? It's coming at you personally and locally, but it's also at, ah, the macro level, it's Kind of pushing you down to think, actually I've got this really good idea. I know this is going to sell and yet the whole world is kind of almost skewed against you.

Speaker B: Yeah, but. And this is where people make the fundamental mistake. They don't hang around the people that are going to build them, they hang around the people that are going to break them. You know what it's like, People don't want to see other people doing what they're not doing. And the worst thing is, is when you take advice from your friend in the publisher that doesn't even have a business and I tell you, saying there's so many of them, it's unbelievable. You've got to surround yourself with the right people. 100%

Speaker A: M. Yeah, there's a lot, I think Alex Hormozi's talking a lot about that at the moment. And he's a big thing on socials. Yeah,

Speaker B: he's 100. Right. He's. You've got to have people in your camp that will help you see how it can work, not how it will not work. Look, we chatted earlier, uh, and I set myself a lofty goal of settling a hundred thousand books in year one. Now that's an absolutely crazy goal. Yeah, I know. You know, there's a big chance that I will not hit it. However, do you know what I'm doing along this journey? I'm finding people that will help me on that journey, make it happen. There's a big difference. And here's a scary thought that most self published authors in their lifetime will never sell more than 200 books. And that's in a lifetime. So you don't have to go, you don't have to go with the status, uh, quo. You can, you can be the difference. But to do that and to do it alone probably is going to be quite difficult. So you need to find the right who's in your life.

Speaker A: You did something interesting there, Peter, when you just kind of described that, I mean you kind of sort of say that, you know, it's an ambition that you know, you may not hit. And yet the way that you said it was very, very positive. It was very kind of self assured, it was kind of, and I'm going to use the word mindful. So you kind of set this ambitious goal. Well, who's, who's to say it's ambitious? Well, you said it was ambitious, but let's just call it a goal. And yet in your heart of hearts, you know, it may or may not. I may, may or may not achieve it, but it was, for me, it was the point that you're aware of that. So you're very, very, I guess, conscious that yes, you have goals, you have sort of ambitions here, but that you're going to be on the journey towards them. It's not the end goal. That's the thing. It's actually the process. It's the journey, it's what you learn en route. And that's the experience, not necessarily just the end goal. Am I picking m. Am I reading that right? Yeah,

Speaker B: you're absolutely right. And the reality is this, I will find the people I need to find that will help me make that a reality. So I'm, I'm, um, aware enough now that I have skills, but there's also knowledge gaps. So for me, being an author is a whole new thing. 21 years as a business coach, 4 months as an author. Do you not think there's a few things that I need to learn? 100% and I'm on that journey of learning. The one thing I suppose I will not do is at this stage in my life, oh Lord, let me learn by my mistakes. No, I learned from other people's experience. So I'll pull in the people that have been on that journey and take the best things that they can, advice, implement that and carry on looking.

Speaker A: So this is an interesting concept and I think, you know, for anybody who's either employed or you're looking to break out and you're looking to start your business or you're an experienced business person listening to this and watching this, there's something very, very interesting here, isn't there? Which do you feel? And I'm just getting a sense here that a lot of us. And I'll look at myself here in the mirror and say, actually, yeah, what Peter is talking about actually applies to you as well, Neil, is we've kind of, because of the convenience of things like social media, because of, you know, video calls, etc. A lot of us have become almost quite detached from those original networks or are. Uh, not necessarily. If we're kind of relatively young and new in business, we're not necessarily surrounding ourselves by those humans because we've got AIs that can help us to do this, that the other answer questions. We've got social media that's there. Ah, to kind of guide us. Yes. On our timeline. Um, but we've got all these other, almost replacements for this kind of human network because it feels that one, we're looking at process here for successful business. But we're also looking at a human network as another layer there that feels like it's really essential. And also the looking in the mirror. Neil, we've kind of let that one go a little bit and we're trying to go maybe too fast, too quick, too soon.

Speaker B: Yeah, look, I think what you'll find, I mean what was quite interesting is pre Covid, most people had networking and conferencing fatigue and like they were, they were not necessarily as popular as I had once been. But then what you'll find is Covid probably that huge reset where we did nothing in our lives and for the first time ever we had time to think. And for some people that was really painful. Over time to think and reset, I'm seeing now networking taken off again because people have got that human to human desire. I mean they've got to be the right networking events. I mean some are good, some are just absolutely terrible. So you don't want to go to a terrible one, that's for sure. Yes, we've got the AI now that's coming in that's giving us other options. But I think with AI, look, when I grew up it was with computers, it was garbage in, garbage out. I think AI is stupid in, stupid out. You've got a lot of people that are now like sort of 12 months into having their AI conversations. And I think that's going to change within the next sort of six months where the realization is going to dawn upon them, um, that they can have all the conversations they want with their AI agent. But if it doesn't elicit behavioral change, conversations alone will not necessarily get you to where you need to be. And I think what you'll find is that the coaching, advisory, mentoring industry will pick back up again because people will know that actually conversations along with AI is not going to get them to where they want to be. Or if you're a founder led business and you are doing AI all the time within your business and you don't have people working for you, you just trapped yourself in your business for life because you're going to be the one that's always going to have to maintain those systems and you're going to be the business. So I do think that people will come to a realization. We'll find the middle ground. I think right now it's still really exciting how it's progressing. And look, I'm guilty. I'm using it to do a lot of the things that I would have had other people doing before. I mean the amount of stuff it's allowing me to now do on steroids. It's unbelievable. But I'm also giving it context that probably most people won't give it. I was blessed in 2002, uh, when we were in lockdown and Zoom became a little less shitty. One of the first things that came into the marketplace was read AI and I was a very early adopter of read AI. And actually for five years I've been. Well, uh, four and a half years I've been categorically recording every single coaching conversation then plural came along and I've been recording every single off site. I've got over 5 million words of data. So actually within the brain that I've got on, um, within my sort of chat GPT include its ability to access my mind is unreal. So. So for me, the information going in is high quality. So now I'm going to get the, I'm going to get the respective result. On the other side. Most people will just put a stupid prompt in and expect it to do miracles and they're gonna have to learn the hard way. So I always say with AI, stupid in, stupid out.

Speaker A: So we kind of building. Feels like we're building a bit of a framework here. Peter, I want to get on to your, um, very much this, this idea of the hamster wheel trap, but there are kind of sort of three elements and I think inadvertently we've come up with three actually very good components of successful business. You' got really effective systems and processes, you've got the right humans surrounding and probably inside the business, but also surrounding the business as key stakeholders. And now we've got the effective use of AI to support, potentially grow and improve the business. If it's good in, you get good out, etc. So we'll flip the, the bad in, bad out, stupid in, stupid out to being good in and good out. Are those kind of three elements. The process, the human, the AI. Are they going to help somebody who is potentially getting into this hamster wheel trap to kind of, you know, figure a way out, do you think?

Speaker B: Yeah, look, potentially, and I use that because it will be down to the person. The reality is when you, when you, whether you're doing a side hustle, and I always think a side hustle is a brilliant thing. So anyone here listening, thinking of side hustle, you should do. And if there's anyone that is a great example that, I mean you, you've got the dude at Gymshark, I mean, he did absolutely fantastic out of his bedroom. You've got Sarah Blakely with Spanx of course it's a lot of hard work, but always say learn on somebody else's dime. So while you're working, do your side hustle on the weekend. Always a good thing, bit of sacrifice, everyone go amiss. But when you first start your business, you've got to be prepared that you're not building a business, you're building a prison. You've got to be able to accept that. And if you cannot accept that, that you are building a prison, you're setting yourself up to fail. Because you think about it, if you start off by, in a business by yourself, you are a uh, one man band. You've got your day job to do, but you also got your night job to do. Because all the things in a business needs to be done and they're going to be done by you. So irrespective, as you grow your business, you're going to be doing the 18 hour days, seven days a week. Accept that. And as you're getting into sort of years and years into the business, that prison will get bigger. Bear in mind that 80% of businesses fail within the first five years and that's a huge number when there's 11,000 businesses that spin up across the globe every single hour. So you are gonna, you are gonna build a prison until you hire people. You are going to be the person doing the work. You're in prison. There is no other way about it. What you've got to learn to do as a business owner is get day released from prison. And unfortunately most people don't, they don't work out how to even get a respite from their business. And then that leads itself to burnout and everything.

Speaker A: It's m. An interesting perspective. Yeah, Peter, I've never heard anybody kind of describe it like that, but you know, as a uh, very well, micro business owner for some, well quarter of a century now, I know this to be true. I know everything that you're saying is true. And, and it goes in kind of ways, doesn't it? And you know, there will be times when you know things are going really, really well and you can maybe take your foot off the gas a little bit, but when times are tough, It's a, uh, 24, 7, you know, sort of job, this thing. Because in

Speaker B: the last five years.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean it can own you. It literally can own you. And I love that analogy of the prison because you've gotta, you've gotta love what you do, haven't you? Really this. If anybody's starting a business or thinking about a business as being a money making venture, the way you've described it, you're just not going to make that call. Are uh, you not going to do it? Unless you absolutely love the process and you love the day to day because you can't sustain that, can you? No,

Speaker B: you can't. But here comes the hamster wheel trap. So let's say you're one of those that has made it to year five. You've got to be do that, you've got to be doing something right. Right. You've got to be. So you're going to be probably making some money by now, so you're going to want some return on sacrifice. So maybe you're going to buy a house, upgrade a house, buy a car, upgrade your car. Maybe you start in a family. Now what you're going to find is if you're a solopreneur, obviously your expenses have now gone up. The challenge you've got is that 100 of the revenue is still founder led, it's still founder driven. So to your point earlier now, the founder takes their foot off the gas a little bit, what happens? The revenue starts to drop. So they can never take their foot off the gas too much because they need to make sure that actually the revenue is there to be able to sustain the increased costs. Because if you can't make, if you can't meet your financial commitments then you are screwed, so to speak. Hence the hamster wheel trap. Some people have got better hamster wheels than others.

Speaker A: Hm. Do you think again just flipping back to AI just very briefly here. I mean if, if you have a very process systems based business so you know you're kind of part of a, maybe a, some kind of supply chain or value chain where it is product or widgets in and then something else that's going out here. So you're not necessarily creating something from scratch. You are a broker, uh, or reseller or something like that. So there is the potential for a lot of automation. Do you think there's an upside here with AI? Because a lot of the automation, use the word agent can enable. So a lot of the things that we wouldn't sort of be doing as administration within our business to be done by AI.

Speaker B: 100%. It will, it will take away the mundane tasks, it will take away the low value tasks. Of course. Well, we're seeing the biggest shift in how we think and how we operate in two decades. This is a massive shift. Some people are on the journey, some people are resisting the journey. Of course. I mean it's not the easiest thing to get your head around. It's moving at a pace that we're struggling to keep up with. You wake up one day, you think you've mastered something and they've bought a new model that can do something totally different. And you're thinking, sheesh, I've got to start again.

Speaker A: M. That's the reality, isn't it? It really, really is. And I guess, you know, coming back to my point that I kind of observed in you Peter, is the fact that you're very aware of what you're doing and what you're saying. There is, there's a, there's a real kind of awareness of self and there's an awareness of the context in which you're operating. Do you see that across many business owners? Because it feels like it's something that a lot of people who might be say, struggling or kind uh, of feeling fearful of all of this change are possibly not spending or taking the reflect to understand the macro situation, to understand how this is impacting them. Uh, and that in itself can be quite self defeating. And you kind of almost then to use your metaphor, you're kind of staying in your prison cell and you can't actually kind of see outside those walls. I mean that, that feels like a big, big risk.

Speaker B: I think you find a lot of business owners are uh, getting beat down all the time. So they're getting beat down by their business, they're getting beat down by their spouse because they don't measure up to the life that their spouse wanted them to have. It's a, it's a lot of pressure, it really is. And I don't think there's a space. It's not just a space and time. I think it's the energy to actually start learning and start changing. This goes back to my point that if we approximately 2004 saw the end of the industrial age, I saw the beginning of the digital age, AKA the knowledge worker age. The keys in a title knowledge worker. Probably uh, the biggest thing that really sort of concerns me is that not enough people are spending, not enough business owners spend enough time developing themselves. They work. And I love Jim Rohn. I mean my favorite Jim Rohn quote is this. Work harder on yourself than you do in your business. Never wish for less problems, wish for better solutions. I mean the man was a genius. And I mean we're probably similar ish age. So I got used to, I mean growing up in sort of 70s Britain, very much Christian led. I was often told God made God Created man in his image. And if that is to be true, then every single founder, uh, has created their business in their image. And if they do not have the business that they want today, they need to look inside the mirror and actually be true to themselves. What is the feedback I'm getting and what must I change about myself?

Speaker A: It feels like that's going to be a non negotiable going forward, doesn't it? Because if you don't change, the world is changing, therefore by default you are falling behind. I mean it's a, it's an old cliche but it still feels very, very true. You know, whichever way you look at whatever industry, whatever sector, uh, so it is feeling to me like it's a non negotiable. And the way that you're describing it Peter, is the fact that you know, this is an opportunity. If you want to push forward, if you want to grow, if you want to, you know, not be beholden to the things that have been in the past, then you need to self improve, you need to self develop. But is the first step just awareness of that? Because, because I don't think number of people would know that.

Speaker B: No. 100. And I've been listening to the commentary from the most inspirational budget we had on Wednesday. And look, the reality is there's no government out there that's going to save you. You can focus on the, on the budget and say how useless it was and yes it wasn't great, but when are you going to take matters into your own hands and actually find a solution for yourself independent of those people that are running countries? Because if we're going to, I mean we're celebrating 1% GDP growth. Oh look, we're brilliant. No we're not. 1. 1% is nothing. You don't have to be the sum total of our uh, country's GDP growth. Go figure out what you need to be the 15, 20 growth in your industry. Go and become that person. That's the thing is. Yeah, you've you the only person that can save you is you.

Speaker A: Mhm. So is there is this journey then this idea of self development, of learn. Well, continuous learning I'm guessing, which it feels like it really is a miss. And we are just to reiterate here people, we are not talking about watching social media here. We're talking about proper self development and growth and you know, business skills, personal skills, personal development stuff. This kind of more holistic thing that is grounded in well science and actual evidence of things that are working. Um, as opposed to some of the very free stuff that's available, um, is if that is going to become this non negotiable for business going forward. How do people kind of take that first step? So if they, if they're listening to this or watching this and they think, yeah, a bit of sense going on here. Peter actually talks a good thing. I might, might be interested in his book. Yeah, so we'll kind of put the link in for that one. Um, but then they sort of turn around the. Oh no, there's that email that's come through. All the phone is now ringing and then they're back to kind of the, the norm, as it were, in terms of this day to day kind of chaos and this flywheel. It's very, very easy to just let this slip, isn't it? Either not take the first step or take a few steps and think, oh, well, I'll get back to then in January. So you know, when New Year comes, New Year's resolution, I'm going to do that next year. There's always a reason not to do this, isn't there? Uh,

Speaker B: and there always will be. Uh, I think we're not going to get away from this now. I mean, look you, the people that are tuning in today, they're already going to be on that journey of self awareness because they're consuming your content. So there's already that willingness there. So that in itself is a blessing then. Itself is a blessing. So they're already on that journey. But I think you've got to start saying, okay, I need to develop me and there needs to be a commitment to developing me. Now. When I grew up, if I wanted to consume any sort of kind of information, I do traipse in the rain to the library today. We're very fortunate. We have Amazon, so we have books in audio format. If you don't want to read or you don't take an information reading, you got hardback, paperback, kindle, we've got YouTube channels. Look, we've got so many different ways of consuming content. I think what we've got to be able to do is start saying, well, in a given week I am going to give up this and I'm going to spend this time working on me. Whenever I'm working with clients, I always say to them, okay, get into the habit of reading a book a month or listening or whatever. Once you get into that cadence, we're going to improve your fitness levels now. We're going to do a book every three weeks and a book every two weeks. Then a book A week. Can you imagine this five years from now? You've done over 150 books across various disciplines in a business. How amazing will your business knowledge be? It's going to be decent. Your frame of reference is going to be huge. Your ability to make sound decisions will be immense. Start with that cadence.

Speaker A: M Do you see a pattern from you. Does you describe this kind of 5 million kind of records? I think it was, you said in terms of, you know, the data of the conversations that you've had, um, over the years. Do you. Do you see a pattern with people who have successfully kind of adopted this mindset? I'm just really curious as to kind of when sort of during the day or when during the week, do most people who are successful actually block this time out? Because it really is a commitment. I think that needs to be scheduled for a lot of people, doesn't it? Otherwise it just. Oh, yeah, I'll get round to that. It never actually happens. Is there a perfect time to do this stuff?

Speaker B: Yeah, now, now. Because it was never. The world's not getting any slower. It isn't a choice. You do it now. You start. I mean, if they live, if people are, uh, listening, tuning in today, once you finish today's episode, go and get yourself a book depending on and you get the right book for where you are. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you a couple of resources. So I'm actually going to give you. I'll, uh, put into our little chat a YouTube video of one of my former clients that was interviewed not so long ago, and he talks about his journey over 15 years. I'd worked with him for 15 years, and he literally was the person that hated his boss. Started off by himself in his garage, went on to sell his business, but really importantly, then went on to create multiple other businesses. But if you look at. If you look at the thing that. If you look at the thing that sort of holds these people together is the fact that they've learned how to run business, they've learned the skill of business, which means they know what to do. And then when they go to their second and third venture, uh, they're just applying what they've learned. It's a gift.

Speaker A: M so with that link that Peter very kindly just shared with me in our little, uh, private chat that we've got here on this recording, uh, I will put into the description because, uh, yeah, it looks like it is going to be very applicable to a lot of you watching and listening, uh, to this this is just such a fascinating conversation, isn't it?

Speaker B: No, it is. And on the back of my office wall when I had clients coming in, I had written up, the more you learn, the more you earn. Um, and it is your wealth will be determined by your knowledge and your ability to execute what you know.

Speaker A: And so if somebody's done that then, so they've, they've kind of got on this journey, they've consumed 150 books over the year. They've, you know, been on various courses, they're listening to podcasts, they're, you know, sort of consuming stuff whilst they're commuting or driving or whatever. Ah. And so they've got this wealth of knowledge and information. Is this just for them to get them off of this hamster, um, wheel or is this something then that they're going to be able to almost embed in the business so that the actual value of the business itself separate to them, the actual value of the business increases? Because it feels like there could be a win, win going on here,

Speaker B: 100%. And also the fact they embed it into their team because ultimately if you're, if you don't employ people, it's going to be quite hard for you to sell your business because no one's going to want to buy your job. Fact. So you need to learn to employ people. And actually an educated workforce is a valuable workforce. So they then get on their journey and that's one thing that John did with his team, he got them all reading, he got them all learning. That was one of the things, that was one of the things that the company that bought them, that bought his first business, they loved that. Actually everyone was on that journey and they saw it as being an investment and they paid, they paid an uplift on the multiples for that. So yeah, 100. You're not thinking about just the here and now making your life better. Everyone should be thinking about the eventual exit and what that looks like. Some people will not want to sell their business, they will just close it down. But in the UK, when 80% of the businesses are just being closed after 30 odd years plus, that's just heartbreaking.

Speaker A: Mhm. When you think of all that time, energy, knowledge, the journey that has gone into that and you use the word energy before Peter and I think, you know, there's so much energy that goes into a business in so many different forms to kind of, yeah. Not almost celebrate that and kind of honor the, the amount that's actually happened there. There might still be a few potential Sales left in.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: To close it down just feels, it feels disrespectful almost to everything that's gone before. I think there's something just lovely, even if it's a nominal sale just for a nominal sum, that this thing is allowed to almost see out its days with good care and, and stuff. I don't know, maybe it's the sentimentality in me, but uh, it just feels the right thing to do and so much time and energy has been put into this.

Speaker B: I'm a big fan of. If you're going to go into business, it's got to give you more life. Not take you, not take life away from you.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. It just feels that way, doesn't it? And it is the journey, it is those layers. If you understand your process, if you've got the right people in and around your business, if you're using AI in the right kind of way, if you're, yeah, sort of taking the time out to self develop. We've got a whole bunch of concepts and ideas here, um, haven't we Peter? That is just the ability to escape the hamster wheel trap, which is perfect. Perfect. I want to connect people with you. I know you're a very busy guy and you need to sort of get on, but just want to give people the chance to connect, get the book, etc. Etc. How can they keep in touch if they want to carry this conversation on and reach out to you? What is the best way?

Speaker B: Okay, first way is to get the book. So you can get that on Amazon and it's available on Audible, paperback, hardback and Kindle. At the moment it's 99p 99 cents. We're doing a promotion. Not sure it'll be still around when you actually go live. Maybe, maybe not. And if you want to connect with me, you want to, you want to sort of speak or you just want to follow some of the content I put out there. If you just type my name into Google, you'll see my YouTube channel, podcast channel, website, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, X. Choose your poison.

Speaker A: You are omnipresent, Peter. And uh, the world needs more Peter, as far as I'm concerned. This has just been such a great conversation and I know we could have actually carried this one on for hours. I just get that feeling that there was so much more we could uncover. It

Speaker B: could have been a job open.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, yes, there is that potential for topics like this. But you know, I think what you're doing, Pete, is actually bringing stuff so much value to so many people. And just. Even if we can just get people to pause and just think, okay, is there another way of doing this? Is there a better way of doing this than, I think, you know, our job in this, uh, particular session is done. So, Peter Bulker, thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker B: Neil, thank you so much for having me. I've really enjoyed it.