Bustle Digital Group is building publications for the influencer era

Speaker A: This is a great space for conceptual things that could really make an impact.

Speaker B: Who has influence? Who are the tastemakers? Who are the people in America who can make something pop?

Speaker C: I would never use them. I'm sure they would give me a headache.

Speaker D: I'm Yasmine Gagne and this is most innovative companies. On today's episode, we talked to Fast Company staff editor David Salazar about the projects, people and companies we recognized in World Changing Ideas. Then I talked to CEO of, uh, Bustle Digital Group, Ryan Goldberg about how Nylon magazine is turning into an invite only members club. As always, we close out the show with keeping tabs. This week Josh is at Cannes Lions Festival in the south of France. Obviously a huge burden. Now Cannes lion is a huge annual gathering of the creative industry worldwide. You can listen to what Josh is doing there in the upcoming episodes of Fast Company's other podcast, Brand New World. Anyway, what this means is we recorded this episode last week before he left. And we're going to get right into our feature stories this week. But first, uh, before we do that, I have a favor to ask. If you're listening to this audio only version of the episode, you may not know that mic is available in its entirety as a video podcast on YouTube. Yes, you can look at us for an entire hour. Plus we'd love it if you could go to subscribe to Fast Company's YouTube page and give this episode a comment or a like. We'd really appreciate it and it would help other people find our show. All right, now on to our first segment with David Salazar, uh, breaking down this year's World Changing Ideas. Hey David, welcome back to the show.

Speaker A: Hey all, thanks for having me and

Speaker D: congratulations on finishing up World Changing Ideas.

Speaker C: Anytime we have someone on talking about a recognition program, I feel like we need to spend the first five minutes just being like, are you okay? Like, yeah. After going through all those applications and all that reporting is. It's just like a lot. It's a lot, a lot of work.

Speaker A: It's. Yeah. Every recognition program here, Vast Company is a real saga and even like world changing ideas. We get a good amount of applicants. We waded through probably more than 1500, but that's still smaller than some of our programs and it's a massive undertaking. I'm, um, actually my back kind of hurts because I've been sitting in like kind of uncomfortable office chairs for a while, just like really locked in. So my workman's comp form will be coming through soon.

Speaker D: So Fast Company chose 191 people projects and companies trying to solve some of the world's most pressing issues and making an impact on our lives. What impact areas were you actually focusing on this year?

Speaker A: There are a lot. Um, we, what's beautiful is that we sort of were able to like go through all these applications and then sort of group them into various areas. Right. So we had a community and society. One those are people focused on like improving our lives, improving their communities, tackling societal issues. We've got the future of health, which is very forward looking. Companies working in healthcare diagnostics. There's one, uh, about Earth stewardship which is super climate focused. Like how are you tackling the climate crisis right now? We also had pushing tech further. People who are using tech in new ways. And it's not always like in any situation. Right now you're gonna get a ton of companies working with AI in new ways. And it's partly that, but also other ways. Just like there are older methods of doing things that are being improved, uh, sans AI, uh, rethinking resources, which is people who are looking at how we're existing on earth. And a lot of industries are sort of inherently extractive, but like how can we do that? Or generating power can be extractive, but like how can we do this in a way that is um, better for the environment, better for the world and provides cleaner power or better, um, ways of doing things?

Speaker D: So you've outlined like a ton of different sectors, but we gotta talk about which ones stood out to you. What was your sort of. I don't know if it's favorite, but what's the one that sticks in your head?

Speaker A: One that actually really stands out to me is um, it's not one that I wrote about. There's one that's really simple and it's called uh, the organization that does it is called the Washing machine Project. And what they do is they make a hand crank laundry machine. Like half of the world does their laundry by hand. And it does sort of disproportionately fall on women and girls to be doing this work in developing countries. And what this um, nonprofit based in London does is they build. They just. The newest version of this, they've been doing it for a few years. It ships flat. So it's a flat pack machine. You assemble it, you like put the water, put the clothes, holds up to like 10 pounds of clothes I think. Crank it for a couple minutes, let it sit, drain the water, crank it, let it sit, crank it again for like a spin cycle basically, and that's it. Then you Dry your clothes. It really saves, like, thousands of hours over the course of a year because it cuts down probably like a half hour of labor of, like, actual, like, hard. I'm washing the clothes by hand, I'm using a, uh, brush or whatever to five minutes, five to six minutes over the course of a half hour. And also this version had features that they went to the people who they've given it out to to add like, a scrub door to get tough stains, add a bigger, like, drainage spout to drain faster. And they've really distributed to a lot of places. They're developing countries, so in Uganda, they worked with a big sort of like, skilling center where they're sort of teaching people to sort of become entrepreneurs. Literally, they're enabling people with this machine to like, turn doing other people's laundry into a sustainable business for women out there, which is really exciting. So it's a cool company, uh, organization, not a company, like a nonprofit. And they have distributed it to, like, hundreds of thousands of people at this point. And there's a big need for it.

Speaker D: You have written about, you have assigned a lot of stories about artists, and I'd love to hear a little bit about social media for the artists.

Speaker A: That, uh, is a company called Collectors. C O L L E C T E U R S Like fancy. It actually sort of spun out of like a tech incubator via the new museum. Um, and the idea is sort of like, it has a couple of angles. It's called slow social media. So it's also, it's an ability for artists to post their work to the site in a way that, like, if it deals with, like, possibly quote unquote or explicit stuff, or like, has probably nudity in general, which is a huge part of art, but something that Instagram obviously will block. Um, they can put that on there. People can view it, they can build patron circles. Um, I sort of describe it in the headline as, like, Instagram meets Patreon, because that's really what it is. You're sharing your work, people are able to find it, they're able to pay you for it. You're able to give them, like a backstage look at how. At your process, whatever. And then Collectors also serves as what they're calling, like, a public museum of private collections. They let people who are private collectors upload, you know, high quality images of what they have in their homes or in their personal collection to the site. So it's not like, yes, they own the thing, but people are able to, like, see that this work exists. And, you know, link it to an artist and understand sort of the scope of work that is held privately.

Speaker D: And do artists basically make money from it, from this kind of patreon, like, feature?

Speaker A: Yeah, they've added a lot of features to be able to sort of like m more monetize the patron circles and give people a, uh, backstage look at their practice.

Speaker C: So another honoree that you have on here is Atlanta's city owned grocery store. We're both in new York right now. Yaz has left and she's in london. Who. I don't know what they do out there, but. But city owned grocery store is a huge point of contention politically here to an extent. But it was a big part of mayor mamdani's platform was opening free grocery stores as a pilot program, one in each borough. So it's interesting that we have an atlanta owned, city, uh, owned grocery store. Can you tell us about that project? And like, does it actually work or is bill ackman right the whole time?

Speaker A: I would never say you gotta hand it to bill ackman, because he's never right. Um, so short story, no, Bill ackman isn't right because it does work. Um, the way that this, this market is called azalea fresh market. There's going to be more, I think, and others opening this year. It's a public private partnership, but it is sort of city owned. Right. So like, Atlanta put up, I think, handles the space and, uh, some investment there. But then there are private partners, including an organization called invest atlanta. There's a local grocery chain that sort of handles the operations. And then there's the IGA infant grocery alliance that handles sort of the supply to the grocery store. But it is, um, in downtown Atlanta that is a food desert. It's a space that used to be a walgreens that closed. It was a pet project of the atlanta mayor, Andre dickens, for a few years, since he took office in 2022. Um, and it has been working well. I mean, and the organization we're recognizing is called cohere. They were behind sort of the marketing and store design and stuff like that. And they are also working now with new york city to, uh, bring the city owned grocery store in harlem to fruition.

Speaker C: I wanna ask about some stats, uh, right now. Cause obviously the big reason behind addressing food deserts and people's access to food is a big thing. Another thing is cost, cost price for people buying groceries, Particularly with inflation right now. What are some stats about this grocery store's price reduction, if any?

Speaker A: Yeah, in general uh, they did a study right when it opened last fall in October. I think they're trying to replicate that now or you know, do more on how their prices are different. I think in general it's about uh, 18 to 22% lower, um, on things like bread and milk and eggs. Um, on eggs especially, they were like really wildly lower, um, in some instances. So it's really like they're trying to make staples very affordable, um, and it's working out as well as it can and they're expanding. And I think that it's obviously filling a demand, especially with inflation doing what it's been doing and grocery prices going up every month, basically.

Speaker C: I think it's interesting with food deserts, um, or food swamps, which is a coin termed a few years ago, where it's like no grocery stores, but a lot of fast food chains on a lot of places. I think people who don't live in cities underestimate how close you need a grocery store to be to you for it to actually be accessible. Particularly if you're a person who's older or has a disability, like me as an able bodied person. If I have a grocery store that I have to walk like eight blocks to to get back to my apartment and walk back m. It's. It's actually really, really hard to get groceries or significant groceries back. Like you need a lot of grocers in these densely populated areas that are walkable cities.

Speaker A: You do. And the lack of one in downtown Atlanta was a big problem. And it's um, you know, I will also note that the um, lower prices are sort of the result of that city investment. Right. The money that the city and its partners have invested is sort of like a way to pad the margins of like groceries. A thin margin business. And that's why they just charge whatever they want most of the time.

Speaker C: It's a thin margin business. Like we talked about, even in the best of circumstances with private grocers, it's tough to both survive as a business and provide lower cost groceries to people. So stepping in with a project like this and making it work is the reason why they're on this list.

Speaker A: Exactly. And it is a great model for what could be possible in New York. And obviously what is future, what is possible in the future for Atlanta as they expand. And that could also help prices lower if you, you know, economies of scale. If you have more, you're able to buy more and you're able to get better prices.

Speaker D: So let's talk a little bit about dignity moves. Um, and first of all, tell me what they do and then explain as part of what they do what non permanent housing means.

Speaker A: First, there's obviously the issue of homelessness, right? People living on the street, they don't have a permanent place to go. Shelters are sort of a stopgap to that. But a lot of cities, they'll say, well, the real solution is to build permanent, more permanent housing so that people can have permanent places to go. And what Dignity Move's proposition is that, like, there's a lot of unused land in cities. We can quickly build temporary structures to get people off the street, to give them a space of their own, which is a huge part of so many of the likes, the issues that, comorbidities, if you will, of homelessness, right, the loneliness, uh, you know, addiction, et cetera. Just like it being unsafe in general to just be on the street. They build these spaces, um, temporary units. Every, every resident gets a unit. They're pet friendly. You get, um, some basic amenities. Sink, bathroom, really, they're mini apartment complexes that people stay in for about eight months on average. Um, and the people who live in these, um, communities are able to sort of access, uh, resources for help transitioning out of street homelessness and maybe, you know, finding a job, finding permanent housing. Cities like this, they first started with San Francisco in 2022 that only cost about $2.2 million to build about 70 units. Um, and they built it in four months. Uh, now they've got 12 sites in California, nine more coming, and they've helped about 2,000 people, um, transition out of street homelessness. What the founder Elizabeth Funk says is she goes to cities, municipalities, and says, like, look, you can spend however much you're gonna spend, quote, unquote, combating homelessness. Uh, the result, you know, the added up costs of police interactions, of homeless services, of outreach efforts. Or you can spend this fixed amount to build enough space to house a solid amount of people, get a solid amount of people off the street, and then continue to solve the problem of long term housing. It's a huge and unbelievably obvious way to fix this. That Dignity Moves is really doing a great job with. And I just want to shout out that you need to go look at this online or get a print copy of Fast Company. Because the portraits that photographer Damon Casares did, um, and that our amazing photo department, Jeanne Graves and Sandriano, um, commissioned are incredible. They're just like, really fun, uh, great portraits of people who are living in a Dignity Moves community right now. And just the value of Having a space of your own to go home to.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean that can't be understated for so many reasons, like the ability to have a unit where you can have a locked door in a space that's your own. Because here in New York, a big problem when you talk to the homeless community here, uh, of why people don't go to the shelter systems that we have is because they're barrack style. So you're in um, like a barrack style housing with a lot of other people. It can be very unsafe. It can be like in terms of your personal possessions or your bodily safety. So this sort of solution is a huge need for combating homelessness.

Speaker D: What would you like to highlight in the Earth stewardship category? Tell us about what projects stood out there.

Speaker A: One of the Earth stewardship companies, um, that stood out is a project and I'm gonna take a step back here and talk about why. I think World Changing Idea is a really special sort of program. Um, from Fast Company. Right. A lot of the company, the recognition program say most innovative companies especially, there are a lot of hurdles there. Especially like to be on most innovative companies you have to provide. You gotta show a recent innovation, you gotta show an impact on the business or industry, you gotta show financials. And it um, has to actually be innovative. Right. World changing ideas, it has to be

Speaker D: over the past year, like very. It's not something you can recognize like cumulative growth.

Speaker A: Right. And while most of those elements are still at play here with world changing ideas, it can actually just be sort of a concept or an idea. We have a whole category dedicated to academic excellence. These are uh, school, you know, university based projects, research projects, et cetera that could scale if adopted. Um, because we really are looking for things that are trying to have a meaningful change. A lot of our uh, applicants and honorees are further than that and that's really exciting. But this is a great space for conceptual things that could really make an impact. And that brings us to this project called Living Fabric. Um, this was sort of undertaken via this ah, agency called VML in partnership with um, the University of the Andes and um, um, an outdoor apparel company called Atreides, uh, down in Colombia. And Columbia has a problem which is that there are land based oil spills all the time. It's a combination of sort of a pretty badly run state owned oil company that runs pipelines throughout the country and also um, like guerrilla fighting where they target the pipelines to disrupt the state owned oil company and they blow up the pipeline sometimes. So the Solution that, um, VML and all his partners came up with was to use this bacteria that the University of the Andes was researching. It's called, um, Lysinabacillus sphericus. Um, what they realized that it sort of, when it comes in contact with oil, it doesn't just like degrade it and break it down, make it disappear. It can also promote plant growth. So the concept they came up with that they sort of piloted, um, is called living fabric. They inoculate the fabric with this bacteria and then you're able to sort of drape it over huge swaths of land that have been covered in oil and it will break it down over time and it remediates the oil spill fairly quickly and helps promote regrowth of that plant ecosystem.

Speaker C: That is so cool.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's awesome, man.

Speaker C: Scientists got a lot of flack, but man, they do some cool things sometimes, right?

Speaker A: Definitely. And this is one of those things where it was a project, it was small, but they proved that it can be done fairly cheaply just with a lightweight fabric and this bacteria. And, um, the next step is just for someone to run with it.

Speaker D: Basically we think we're doing important work,

Speaker C: but yeah, these podcasts don't make themselves. Someone's got a world changing idea. Podcasting.

Speaker A: What happens if you play this podcast for plants though? Does that promote plant growth? Possibly die in?

Speaker D: Probably not, no.

Speaker C: Oh, this podcast, my voice could kill a succulent.

Speaker D: So health had a ton of honorees this year. Um, and we basically constantly talk in our coverage about health projects that are leveraging AI. Tell me a little bit about the startup that's trying to improve outpatient surgery using the technology.

Speaker A: Yeah, so Oath Surgical is something that emerged last, uh, spring out of stealth. And what they're tackling is sort of an increase in moving sort of like non acute surgeries out of hospital settings into outpatient settings. And that's something that's been happening over time through insurance. But now Medicare and Medicaid are adopting new, uh, sort of approved procedures that they would prefer to happen in the outpatient setting. And that can be really good. Right. Like it's actually not incredible to get a surgery in the hospital and then stick around and possibly get an infection, et cetera. Outpatient can be very efficient. Um, but what oathsurgical does is they've developed this sort of AI powered othos. And what they are is sort of, uh, a, they own three of their own facilities where surgeons can work with them. They do everything from like women's health to um, uh, orthopedic surgeries, uh, et cetera. The idea is sort of like all the AI tools streamline the process of getting the surgery. So you go for your consult, there's ambient AI that sort of listens and creates the record and then schedules your appointment. And then um, in the operating room it is listening, taking notes, documenting uh, the surgery. It also is um, recording it for um, it's also recording the surgery with video um and it's all HIPAA compliant. They're documenting the procedure details um and then ah, it'll schedule your post op and then once that whole patient journey is complete as they call um, turns it into sort of a like stats about surgeons complication rates M and right now that's about 0.25% um on average which is pretty good. I mean there's a huge range of complication rates based on procedure, et cetera. But that usually hovers like anywhere from like 3% to 11%. Um so 0.25% is really good. And so they launched with two clinics, now they're at three. They're hoping to be more than double that by the end of the year. They work with a ton of insurers, Aetna, Cigna, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, um, and they've got about 250 plus surgeons either that work directly in their clinics or that they work with to sort of bring this uh, OS to them.

Speaker D: And they've raised a bunch of money. This is sort of not just a concept.

Speaker A: It's very much, no, it's very much happening. Um, it's kind of impressive. They've raised $35 million. Investors um, have included Oxford Science Enterprises, McKesson Ventures. McKesson is one of the world's biggest sort of healthcare distribution companies. In January it partnered with Nvidia to use Nvidia spatial AI capabilities to analyze its surgical video and audio in real time. And so the hope is that this will just continue to improve one the experience of getting surgery from the patient but also just make being a surgeon much easier. They've got um, a lot of very high tech uh, like surgical robots for laparoscopic procedures um and just are a really good facility that surgeons seem to like to partner with as well.

Speaker D: Are there plans to expand?

Speaker A: Yeah, they're hoping to have at least six facilities that they own and operate by the end of this year. Um, and obviously growing that network of surgeons that they work with. And it's I think going to be, this is a moment to like really be leaning into outpatient surgery especially as those Medicare and Medicaid patients get filtered out.

Speaker C: Let's talk about the Visionaries of the Year list. First off, who are they and what was the sort of criteria you were looking for for this list of honorees?

Speaker A: Yeah, so there are four of them this year. This is something that we debuted last year. Um, Yaz actually wrote about our Visionary of the Year last year. He was the Costco CEO. This year we've got four really amazing honorees that have done a lot of great work. I'll just name them quickly and then probably get into a couple. One is, um, his name's Jimmy Drummond. He's the head of Drummond Projects. That is an architecture firm working to redevelop something called berry farm in D.C. this is a historically black neighborhood that sort of has seen some disinvestment, et cetera. They're redeveloping that whole area mostly with public housing. And he and his firm have done most of the interior design that's got some buildings opening. And, uh, it has prioritized the, like, roughly 200 people who were displaced by the project. So these people who lived there before had to move out because they're redeveloping the area and they are moving back in at the end. And he's really taken it upon himself to go meet with them, understand their needs in a way that like, public housing does not do. Usually, you know, like, they just build it and you as the resident have to sort of deal with it. Um, Jimmy Drummond's one. Then there's Mikkel Vestergaard Franzen. And he is, he's sort of like a serial inventor. He created these mosquito nets and distributed them. He created Lifestraw. His new project is something called psi. They built these things called, um, High Altitude platform systems or HAPs. And they're really just like blimps. Uh, they're huge blimps that orbit about, or they hang out about 12 miles above the earth. Uh, and the idea here is that they're better able to spot fires. Um, that's one of the early uses because they have a really good view of everything and they have a ton of sensors and high tech cameras on board, um, and can see a fire as it's happening or like, you know, use thermal imaging to sort of spot that happening in real time. And so they're still testing a lot of that. They're based in New Mexico, but they did a big flight down to Brazil and back to sort of test the longevity. And a lot of the investors in that company are actually telecoms who see sort of the haps as probably able to have some sort of cellular, uh, uh, capabilities on board, like act as a floating cell tower, um, essentially. So that's all happening. We also have, um, Naven Salem. She's the head of an organization called Adesia Nutrition. They make a product. What it's called is a, uh, what's the term? An rutf, a Ready to Use therapeutic food. So these are like calorically dense foods for people who are suffering from malnutrition. Right. A child dies malnutrition every 11 seconds. Um, and a key player in combating malnutrition was, uh, usaid, an organization that Elon Musk and his pals at Doge just sort of made disappear for no reason last year, which left, um, Adesian a big lurch because USAID was a huge buyer of their product to distribute to people who are dying of malnutrition. And so what she did was she sort of put together a coalition of NGOs, the UN organizations, um, and brought food to Gaza, um, and South Sudan. So with the Gaza distribution, she worked with, um, an organization called airlink that transported the food. Um, an organization called ISRA Aid coordinated land transport from Tel Aviv to the border and then Multi Faith alliance delivered them directly to families in Gaza, um, and Children's Village, Gaza provided additional care to, um, the newly orphaned children in Gaza who they were trying to feed. Really like an unbelievable example of taking a really, really, really shitty situation and finding a solution to try and save people's lives actively.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: If you want to hear more about some of these, you know, the gap that USAID's, um, funding cuts left these sort of humanitarian aid organizations in. Uh, Brendan Vaughan, our editor in chief, had a really great interview with David Miliband for his podcast Office Hour. And uh, they talked a lot about that, particularly the, um, the famine in South Sudan, which is just absolutely devastating right now. So listen to that. It's a plug. We'll put the link in the show notes. Uh, who was the fourth name?

Speaker A: Yes, the fourth one, and this is someone who appears in our print issue this summer is Tim Latimer. And he heads a company called Fervo Energy. And what Fervo Energy does is Tim was trained in oil and gas methods, things like, uh, and uh, drilling methods specifically. So he's sort of adapting these, uh, techniques that sort of underpin things like fracking. Not great. But what he's done is taken them to the world of geothermal energy and is leveraging them to create New horizontal geothermal wells that they sort of, um, uh, circulate water through to generate heat. And uh, I don't think it's just steam. Like there's that meme where it's like, oh, did you invent a new energy form or is it just steam and nuclear energy is like, it's steam.

Speaker C: Because I'm such a theater kid, my mind immediately went to steam heat.

Speaker A: You got, oh, yeah, it's more than that, which is good. Um, uh, and so they've opened Cape Station, which is the first facility. It's out in Utah and it is beginning to supply power to the grid. They're working with Southern California Edison. They're scaling to 100 megawatts by 2027. Um, and this has also been backed by, um, a lot of companies, uh, Breakthrough Energy Ventures, which was backed by Bill Gates. Um, and his sort of visionary work is when he started this, people were not interested in geothermal. They were like, this is going to be expensive, it's going to be hard to scale. And he's showing that actually it is scalable, it is, um, an effective way to generate energy. And they went public in May on the NASDAQ. Uh, they raised $1.89 billion and their valuation before they were saying like, oh, maybe it'll be like a $3 billion valuation just due to the run on energy, the need for new sources of energy as we build more AI data centers. Their valuation exceeded $10 billion in the first days of trading. So this is a company to watch. Tim Latimer is someone who is basically creating a, ah, really solid geothermal base for power generation.

Speaker D: Well, thank you for taking us through some of the WCI honorees. Um, we'll be back with David later on in the show for keeping tabs. But first we're going to take a quick break, followed by my interview with Bustle Media Group CEO Brian Goldberg about how Nylon became an invite only members club and some of his forecasts for the future of media. BDG is a year into its Nylon membership plan. How is that going? Where do things stand with the business? Is it working?

Speaker B: It's going great. It's going great. Um, I should probably give some context of what it is and what we're doing and sort of how we arrived at this concept. Um, and what it really is, is it's, it's a data play. It's us hoping, um, it's us having the ambition to build one of the largest databases of influence, uh, in the world to really try to understand who has influence. Who are the tastemakers? Who are the people in America who can make something pop? And, uh, it's not always who you think it is, right? It's not just people with big social media followings. Um, we are building this incredible database of, uh, people who can change taste. And in some cases, yes, that will be a quote unquote influencer or creator who has hundreds of thousands or millions of followers. Sometimes it's a stylist who's choosing what famous people wear. Sometimes it's the maitre d at a really popular restaurant, um, who chooses who's getting in. Sometimes it's a founder who has the hot new startup. Sometimes it's the DJ manager who all the cool new DJs want to work with. So the idea of who's influential, who drives taste, is much more complex than people realize. And that's something we've learned over the years by hosting so many of these Nylon events. The genesis of the idea was this. Once we were several years into building out an experiential strategy for Nylon. Once we were up to 20 or 30 events a year, some of which host, uh, thousands of people, what we found is we were building the first concept of influence as community. So influencers are not a new concept. Um, a lot of companies, a lot of agencies have built these rosters of influencers. We think influence 2.0 is influence as community. And it happened because after doing dozens of these sort of exclusive red carpet events, we kept seeing a lot of familiar faces. And some of them were people who, um, are pretty famous or at least would be famous to Gen Z. And so instead of trying to put together a new guest list every time we do an event, which is painstaking and can be tedious. And when you're hosting a massive coachella afterparty for 4,000 people and you have 15,000 trying to apply to get in, you don't want it, to redo it every time. And so we said, let's, let's start to put together sort of a roster of the Perma list. The few thousand people we think really not only are do we love having at our events, but really drive taste. Within the first day, over 10,000 people applied. After we announced what this is, we said, hey, apply now and come to every Nylon event forever. Get on the Perma list.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker B: And in addition to the Nylon membership, the ambition to build this ultimate database of influence goes much further. So every time we host an event, and the most recent to talk about would be, uh, either F1 in Miami um, or Coachella the month before that. We open it to an application process. Anyone can apply to come to the event. Uh, and we capture pretty much everyone's emails, their phone numbers, obviously, their social handles. We try to get their addresses. We try to get as much information about any person who wants to come to one of our events. So our events, in addition to being great products in and of themselves, are a massive user acquisition flywheel. And it's allowed us to build this incredible database of hundreds of thousands of tastemakers across America and the world. And that's the ambition is we've become a data company. That's not where we started when I bought these fashion magazines seven, eight years ago, I didn't say this is step one of building the world's greatest database of influence, but it's where we've landed seven, eight years later. And the Nylon membership is sort of the. The capstone of it, because that's where we invite in a few thousand of the most influential people who we. We love having at our events. And. And if I can commercialize it, who our brand partners love having at the events. They want to see those familiar faces, those influential tastemakers.

Speaker D: Do people pay to apply?

Speaker B: No. There's no money involved. And that's a good thing because for a lot of these influencers, for a lot of these tastemakers, um, their presence is worth a lot more than the 5,000 a year they would pay us if this were Soho House. Right, Right. That's one business model. Okay, so Soho house maybe has 100,000 members paying 5,000 a year. That's. That's a fine business model. Most of the people in our Nylon membership, if they put up an Instagram post at an event, if they take a picture on a red carpet, that's technically worth a lot more than $5,000. M. For some of them, they're charging $50,000 to post on social media for a brand. If they're on our red carpet with our sponsors behind them, we may be getting $50,000 worth of media value, earned media value. And that's a lot better than charging them a few thousand bucks to be in a membership.

Speaker D: Now, you are a remarkably good salesman. Um, what does it take to be accepted into the membership? So, you know, you mentioned different profiles of people, but is it, you know, is the Nylon staff reviewing all these applications for Vibes? Do you have a cutoff in terms of followers, where you're like, we want people to at least have this number of followers. How do you think about that?

Speaker B: The criteria was Never just followers. Um, and we knew that right away. Uh, and we like to see familiar faces. We like it when people come to our events at Coachella and then we see them six months later at Art Basel. The most important criteria right now, I would say is the network effect. We already have close to 2,000 members. If someone applies and I see that they have 300,000 followers, but they only have two friends who are in the membership, well, that doesn't make much sense to me mathematically. I'm wondering, are these fake followers? Who is this person? And then sometimes somebody will apply and yeah, they have 4,000 followers. That's not a huge number, but a huge overlap with the existing membership. Why is that? Well, because they, um, they're a stylist and they're giving creative cues to these people who have millions of followers. And that's influence. Um, or like I said, they might be. Why do they send so many cool followers? They're the maitre d at the hottest new restaurant and everyone's trying to get a hold of them because they want a reservation.

Speaker D: But I guess if you have like 10,000 applications, right, like, you know, are you using AI to go through them and look at mutual followers? Is it really like a manual process? How does that work?

Speaker B: Gotcha. Okay, so I'm going to defend doing things manually for a second, and I

Speaker D: didn't say it was a bad thing,

Speaker B: but sure, the more we get it. So we're using AI a ton at the company, but I still believe certain things should be manual. And I think community building has to have a manual element to it. So.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker B: You know where we would be similar to someone like Soho House or Shay Margot is we do have a team, it's our talent team and they're looking through people applying. And sometimes, by the way, we'll know when someone's applying, right? We'll meet an influencer at a party and say, hey, you should be part of the community, we'd love to have you. And then they'll apply and we will, they'll, you know, they'll enter the database, we'll approve them and we'll hope to see them at future events. Um, and I should say one more thing about the membership is we're not just getting all their data, they're not just joining the community. We're also getting permissions from them. And I think this is a really important point because people talk about data a lot. Permissions just as important. And there's the legal permission of, yes, we can contact you. Yes, we can text you. Yes. We can invite you to things. You know, you click the little I accept the terms box when you apply for a membership. But permission is also much broader, more spiritual concept. Do they want to hear from you? If we text an athlete or an influencer or, uh, a notable person, hey, come to this Nylon event tomorrow. It's sponsored by this fashion brand. Do they want to hear from me? Um, are they going to be excited? Are they going to respond? So that's a big part of it too, is sort of the permissions of it all. And for that reason, this really has to be a manual process. We make no doubt we are building a massive database. We are building the leading database of influence. But there will always be a very manual process to it, or else it just won't feel real and it won't feel like community.

Speaker D: Do you have a sense of who in your membership sort of drives the most profit? You know, who's somebody that sponsors are excited about or how would you even measure that?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we, we, we do. Um, and that is proprietary. So at some point I have to cut off with this. We have a very good sense of which people in the community really move things. What we're not trying to do as much, we can do it. You know, there's a lot of companies that play in the sort of Pure Play affiliate. Here's a link. Buy my product. That works. That's important. And that does get budget. We are much broader than that. We're looking at, we're really seeing how do you build a brand, how do you have a cultural moment, how do you get people to pay attention? And yes, we have data on it, but sometimes it's, um, you know, the whole PR aspect of it is a little bit more intangible, a little bit less data driven. Who are the. When we have a bunch of stars at a party, who's the press talking about? Right, yeah. So, for example, you know, at our Art Basel party, there were some big celebrities there. You know, Travis Scott came to the party. He's, you know, one of the biggest performers in the world. Alex Earle came to the party. She's strictly speaking not as famous as Travis Scott, but it was the night she broke up with her boyfriend. And she was at the party sort of, and her boyfriend's an amazing guy. And I, uh, actually hope they get back together because I follow this stuff a little bit now.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker B: But she was at the party with her friends. She was clearly dressed for a night on the town and it was all over the press, it was all over the gossip press. It was in TMZ and Dewan, all these. And you know, she's not nearly as famous as some of the other people there, but she's the one who everyone was talking about. And we notice those things. We notice who the press is putting in their roundups. Uh, you know, when, when the, when Page Six is doing a roundup of who was at the Nylon party, we do pay attention. We want to know who's moving the needle. Um, so, so part of it is very data driven and part of it is gut. You know, part of it is editorial and I love that because that is who we are. I mean, we are at the end of the day, a magazine company that has taken on incredibly sort of forward thinking, digital and data driven dynamics.

Speaker D: When you think about, you know, turning a profit through all this, is it primarily, you know, ah, a way to attract sponsors? How do you think about that?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's. Sponsorship's our model. Advertising. I always say advertising is an incredible business model. If you're good at it, if you have something to offer that other people don't. And what we found in the last couple years especially, you know, we're growing very fast. This model's really working. What brands are finding is that taste, it's really hard to deliver taste, it's really hard to deliver a cultural moment. Um, it sounds a little broad and abstract, but brands know it when they see it. They know when they're seeing their logo on a red carpet and everyone's taking pictures of it. They know when they were the sponsor of an Art Basel party that everyone was trying to get into brands in a post AI world brands are so tired of getting lost in the shuffle, they're sick of the AI slop. They want to do something that matters, which usually means real life. If you can't win in real life, you're not really winning. And so what we do so well is we create what I call environments or moments.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker B: Um, and by the way, this, you know, in the tech world, this idea of environments is very hot right now. With an eye towards AI creating these learning environments where robots can learn and simulate. Well, humans have environments too. And for us at Nylon, when we create a moment at Coachella or Art Basel or we have a big fourth of July party coming up, you know, it's some combination of a red carpet, a performance, a surprise moment, food tasting, gift giving, brand activations. Um, and it's all very stylish and we create these great environments and into those environments, we invite the biggest tastemakers, the people who really have influence. And you pull it all together, and you get this. Basically the supernova of amplification and what the brands are starting to learn. And they don't believe me at first when I tell them this, but we can get as many eyeballs as an NFL game, as an NFL playoff game. Because when you look at the math, if we have at our Fashion Week party in New York, if we have 2,000 guests and the average guest has 100,000 followers, that's a reach of up to 200 million. And we realize a good portion of that, we can easily get 20, 30, 40 million, uh, video or picture views for our events and for the brands on the red carpet, for the brands who've built activations or have a moment at a Nylon party. And when you start to think about scale, 10 years ago, we'd be talking comscore. We were talking about, what's your scale? What's your audience? I'd say, well, we have a comscore number of 30 million, and that's how many people come to our website every month. Now, in a given night, using this power of building a cultural moment, bringing in the tastemakers, and having everyone pull out their phones, we can reach 30, 40, 50 million people in one night. And we often do. Um, and that is, to me, what the future of media looks like. Creating a moment that matters, tied to a cultural event, getting sort of the cool crowd to show up, having them pull out their phones and amplify their audience to a massive audience. That's the new version of a football game with CBS cameras piping it through cable into a house. It's just a different way to reach 50 million people.

Speaker D: When did you decide to go all in on that? You know, do you think that's just the future of the company? How are you thinking about that?

Speaker B: Live? The idea of winning at, uh, Live was really important to me for two reasons. The first is it was a domain. It was a playing field where Google and Meta, or I guess they were still Facebook, that I couldn't m compete with us. We had our own playing field where we could win. And the other thing that mattered to me, and this is me wearing sort of my founder hat. And for founders listening who aren't in media, remember this, if nothing else, every day you have to ask yourself, uh, what am I the best in the world at? What is my company the best in the world at? And it doesn't have to be a huge thing. And sometimes it's something that starts kind of small and then gets much bigger before you know it. And in 2018, I said, I'm going to be number one. I want us to be number one at exclusive live events, call it red carpet events. And I want to be the best in the world at that. And it's going to take three or four or five years to do it. Guess what? Then the pandemic happened, and it took seven, uh, which sucked. You know, you're like, you put this great strategy together. You can't wait to go. I bought the assets to do what? I bought nylon. We're ready to go conquer the world and win this world of exclusive experiential red carpet media. And then the pandemic happens. But even so, by that was the concept was let's be the best in the world at a thing. And that thing was exclusive experiential. After a few years, we realized we're not just in the business of creating red carpets and bringing celebrities and tastemakers into these events. We're in the relationship business. These influencers and celebrities and tastemakers desperately want to come to our events. They want to be in with us. They want a relationship with us. And so last year is when we really codified it and said, we're in the relationship business now. And in a post AI world, that's an incredibly great place to be. Data and relationships and using these fashion magazines. And what initially was just let's win at experiential to now let's win at a much bigger opportunity, which is having all the relationships with all the celebrities and tastemakers, and in a very different way than caa, in a very different way than wme, and in a very different way than, uh, in an agency or influential who just sold for all that money. Like, we're building a very parallel product to what CAA does. But give us two or three years, and I think our fundamental ability to have meaningful relationships, even business relationships with tastemakers, will be leading edge, if it's not already.

Speaker D: Where does content fit into all this?

Speaker B: It's really important. Um, and I will. I will start by saying one thing. There is nothing celebrities and tastemakers want more than to be on the COVID of a magazine.

Speaker D: Oh, we know. Yeah.

Speaker B: And there it sounds, because. Yeah. Do magazines play the same role they used to in society? No, I'm not going to say they do, but this much is sure. Celebrities want to be on these covers so badly. And, you know, in the case of W Magazine and more and more Nyla, we're getting the biggest stars in the world. So W magazine, for example, just last month had Rihanna on the COVID debuting her new baby, which is a thing. It, um, was a beautiful cover. Um, she was wearing. I'm gonna. They're gonna kill me if I get this wrong. I believe she was wearing Jonathan Anderson for Dior. If I get that wrong.

Speaker D: She was, because now she's the face of, uh, Dior perfume.

Speaker B: Perfect.

Speaker D: Anyway, she has a relationship with that brand. Yeah.

Speaker B: My editors will kill me if I get that one wrong. And that was a huge moment. Um, viral is not enough to describe it. You know, mega viral. Hundreds of millions of people probably saw that cover. Certainly they did. Um, how many people bought the magazine? Um, at the newsstand, I don't know. Tens of thousands, maybe. But hundreds of millions saw it. That's a big part of what we do. But that is ultimately what draws in the celebrities and the influencers. That's why they need us. And in a world where celebrity and influence matters more than ever, very few companies can have that relationship where they need us. Like, most celebrities don't need anyone. And I'll be honest, Rihanna doesn't need anyone either. But she wanted to do a cover. She wanted to do it with, you know, and, you know, show off her beautiful new baby. NW was the obvious partner because it's the number one cover right now. Nylon's doing great things too. We had Cat's Eye and Somber on our covers the last two times. They're sort of the two hot new artists. I think they were both nominees for best new artists at the Grammys. So it's established. We have this very important role in the fashion magazine world of we decide who matters. We use our authority, which has been built over decades, to sort of rank and establish. So Nylon just put out, for the first time, the top hundred DJs list. No one had ever done a good job of ranking the DJs. Okay. You would have thought someone did. There's DJ magazine. Their list is not good. People don't like it. So we did one that was much, much better. And it fundamentally changes our relationship with the. With the world of electronic music in a way no one else can have. And I think what's so interesting is when I bought these magazines seven, eight years ago, that was lost to the world. And I bought these magazines in many cases under what you could call sort of a distressed circumstance, like a fire sale. Yeah, at the time. Yeah. And at the time, it's because in 2018, everyone was focused on scale. 100 million com. Score. Buzzfeed can reach a trillion people. And they thought about it in a very unoriginal way. They have a website. It had this many visitors. That was right when I pivoted to authority. I said, well, what people are not valuing right now are brand, authority, voice. Those things were sort of lost at that time. It's, uh, easy to forget 2016, 2018, Buzzfeed, that was all the rage. How many people can I reach? You know, 10 million people in a day? Buzzfeed did a story about a dress. What color is it? 20 million people read this story. What was lost at that time was authority. And authority is so back. And so I would argue our company, and this is really cool. I don't think there's another company in the world who has this relationship with celebrities and influence. And part of it, yes, is the events and the red carpets. And they. And they very badly want to be in our events and be part of our community. They also very badly want to be in the magazine. And they very. And the COVID is one thing. I mean, you really have to be quite famous. Again, I'll cover. But being featured, being talked about. And that's because the few editors who are still left in this business are uncompromising. They're doing this because they really have taste. They're really uncompromising. You can't, you know, it's. It's a thing money can't buy. And so if you look at our editors, Charlotte owen and Lauren McCarthy for nylon and for Bustle or Sarah Moonves for W, they really have tremendous taste. They really have a sense of who matters. And that's captured in the magazine, and that's captured with the scarcity of the covers and the features. And, yeah, you know, nothing is quid pro quo in this business, but it's not lost on the celebrities and their managers and their agents that we have this powerful ability to determine who's relevant. And it doesn't matter how many copies of the magazine we sell. We sell plenty of copies of the magazine. But the covers and the features reach 100 times as many as they as will ever buy the magazine. I mean, hundreds of millions. And to that end, I think fashion magazines are more important now than they've ever been. Uh, which. Which was an insanely contrarian take seven or eight years ago. And that's why I could buy them when I did. I could never buy them today.

Speaker D: Now, obviously, there's, you know, been a lot of layoffs. You mentioned Conde Nast. You've done some, um. And I think a lot of journalists are sort of rightfully angry because there are so few jobs in the industry. What, what do you tell them as you lay them off? Like, what kind of advice do you give them? What does that look like?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so, you know, most people at the company see the direction we're going and see what we're prioritizing. Are we still prioritizing world class editorial? Yes, we are, absolutely. And in fact, I think we're doing the best job we can. It is with the direction we've taken. It's more visual than it was in the past, so maybe we have more photographers than, than we used to. Um, it's more relationship based. So the sorts of people we need at the company are those who can go out and build a lot of relationships. We just. So two weeks ago we hired a new editor for the Zoe Report, which is doing really well for us, and a new fashion editor. And I don't interview every candidate by diligence. Every candidate we hired. And for this particular hire, before it was official, I called a number of publicists and I said, do you know who she is? Do you see her out in the world? Do you see her at fashion parties? Do brands know who she is? Um, that was important to me and that's not something I would have asked a few years ago in looking to make a journalistic hire. But the world's changed. And as a big part of our business model is really having relationships with celebrities, taste bakers, stylists, having relationships with brands, that's a much bigger criterion. And that's not to say that a journalist who's, you know, a little more introverted or sort of behind their laptop screen isn't important and doesn't have a role in the ecosystem. It means we, we need to hire people who are out in the world, who are out six nights a week building relationships with tastemakers, because that's our business model. The job changes and journalists see that. And I'm glad that Substack has worked. I'm glad that a lot of journalists who maybe wouldn't fit into our model can have great careers going independent, a lot of them making a lot more money than they would have as part of a corporation. So it's just a different need. But we, but the craft is still. You know, I'm prouder of the work we're doing now than I've been at any point in my career, and I'm very proud of what we've done in the past. But the team we have now Especially editorially, is world class. It's just such a different team and such a different skill set than it was a few years ago.

Speaker D: Now, in, uh, in recent years, there have been reports about BDG looking for some kind of exit, uh, as I hinted at earlier, that could be through a SPAC or a PE firm, and neither of those have happened. But how, how do you think of a potential exit with this business model?

Speaker B: You know, I, I don't need to sell anytime soon. I love what I'm doing. There was a moment in time, a couple, a few years ago when it was hard, um, when we were, when we believed in the model we were building, but we were not there yet and it was gonna be years until we were. And that's a hard spot. When you, when you believe in what you're doing, others don't necessarily believe you, others don't think it's going to work. And you believe in yourself and you have years to go to prove it. And now I feel we have, we're profitable, we're growing. People get what this business does and how it's so different and how it's leading edge. But it's years to get there and it wasn't always fun, but now it is, um, you know, winning and seeing things come to life feels good. So I would say that right now I love what I'm doing. Whether we sell or not, I'm going to be doing this for a long time. There's, hm, no other job I'm going to do. And as a founder, you have to acknowledge that when it's the case and I look at what the hot new opportunities are, I could never work in AI, I couldn't work in crypto. I'm not smart enough. Um, this is what I do and this is what I'm going to do for a long time. But I'm good at this. And to that end, if someone makes a great offer, we'll consider it. But the first thing I would say to anyone who tries to buy our company, if it's pe, if it's, you know, a bigger company, I want to be doing this for a lot longer. I'm not going anywhere. And they have, and they have to like that. That has to be a selling point. And I've built a team. This team we have is really, really good. And they have to want the whole team. And I don't think anyone would buy us if they didn't. Um, there are, there are companies that get bought because they want to slash it and take the IP or take the patents. That's not this. You wouldn't buy this company unless you love what we do and how we do it so we're not in a rush to sell. I love what I'm doing and nothing will change. Like I'm going to run this for a long time because it's a fun job. Once it finally works, it's a fun job. And it wasn't always fun, but now it really is.

Speaker D: Uh, Brian, this was great. Thank you for coming on the show.

Speaker B: This was great. Thanks so much.

Speaker D: Okay, it's time for keeping tabs. This is where each one of us shares a story or a trend we're following right now in business or. Or otherwise. David's back with us. And David, since you're our guest, what are you keeping tabs on?

Speaker A: This is very non business. I've sort of been trying to, uh, lock out, as it were, after World Changing ideas went live. My keeping tabs is whatever Jake Shane is going to do a commercial for next because that guy loves a check. I don't know if you've seen this or read it.

Speaker D: I don't understand his deal. I know that sounds bad, but like he's everywhere and yet I'm like, he's

Speaker A: just like a little guy, you know?

Speaker C: He's just a little guy. Yeah, I was going to ask. I've somehow managed to. And I'm chronically online. I've somehow managed to avoid learning anything about Jake Shane beyond his name and that he's around.

Speaker D: I see like footage of him all the time.

Speaker A: He was a tiktoker. He. The way he like made tiktoks where it's like George Washington doing something and he would like do sort of like a reaction impression of like a historical moment in a funny way. And so then he parlayed that into like he was in a poppy super bowl commercial, which is a pretty normal one. Oh yeah, he, uh, was on the red carpet at the Oscars, if you recall. There was a little dust up because he was like that kid in if I had legs I would kick you. Was really annoying. Right?

Speaker D: That makes me like him.

Speaker A: But now, and he's, um, got this podcast.

Speaker D: Is it therapist Therapuss?

Speaker A: Yes. And also, yeah, I don't know, I don't know the whole super lore. But what I do know is that via a people exclusive, he's repping the Panera salad stuffers, which are just, they're just wraps, right? No, it's. It's like a hollowed out baguette that they, like, shove, um, their salad into. And he's in a commercial for it. And people literally.

Speaker C: I would eat the shit out of that. Panera is one of the craziest fast casual restaurants in history. I mean, separate. And apart from the charged lemonade, which literally allegedly kills people.

Speaker A: They had to pivot from the lemonade that allegedly kills you.

Speaker C: So I got this. All right, I'm three charged lemonades deep. Let's just, let's just pull the bread out of our baguettes and stuff. Salad.

Speaker A: Um, and he like, I'm so fascinated by people Spawn, where it's like, I don't even really like salad, but this made me like salad, says Shane. And it's.

Speaker C: It's a baguette.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: It's so good.

Speaker A: It's so funny. So I'm excited to see what insane product he talks to people about next.

Speaker D: Josh, what are you keeping tabs on?

Speaker C: So I'm keeping tabs on the, uh, just released Snapchat specs. These new glasses, have you both seen what they look like?

Speaker D: When are we gonna learn that smart glasses are just, like, embarrassing smart glasses?

Speaker C: I mean, it seems like the meta Ray ban and whatever part. What? Who else are they party partnering with? Yes, yes, yes. Uh, Attica. I can. I'm going to butcher that name in my Rhode island accent. But anyways, um, yeah, I don't know if the, like, wearable, like, if this is how we're going to consume AI. I think everyone's trying to make, like, smart glasses happen because I think in theory it's cool. Like, it's just another, like, sci fi nerdification of technology.

Speaker D: Cooler than the Apple Vision Pro.

Speaker C: Well, yeah, that's true. That's shockingly low.

Speaker A: But this costs like $2,000.

Speaker C: That's what I was going to say. They're not much cheaper than the Apple vision Pro. They're 2,100 something dollars is the price point on them. They're not attractive. And Evan Spiegel got up and announced at an augmented reality, um, conference. And the first thing you said is, like, look at these. First of all, they're gorgeous. And I'm like, they're not gorgeous. They so good. At least with the meta Ray Ban glasses, they're like a form factor that, like, I would wear as a glasses wearer. I'm like, oh, okay, that looks like a pair of glasses that I would actually wear. But these are not that. These are not that. And even if I'm sure the technology is impressive, I just don't know what the Use case is for it right now. Like, they would sit on my end table. I would never use them. I'm sure they would give me a headache.

Speaker A: The thing about the tech that comes out of Snap, which is that they have always been really ahead of their time. Right. Like, I remember when spectacles came out, I bought a pair, they were awesome. But then I was like, what the hell do I use this for? And then there's the side part of them being tethered to Snapchat to be most effective. And I think that, like, like, I understand that as a company, Snap needs revenue through the, like the downloadable Chumbox that is Snapchat, sort of.

Speaker C: But just focus on your ad business. That's where you're going to make money. Or, like, this is not gonna do it.

Speaker A: Or divorce the AR tech business from Snapchat in a way that is meaningful. Because I do think that, like, you know, the main audience of Snapchat, children and perverts, one of those is more deep pocketed than the other children.

Speaker C: Children.

Speaker A: Uh, Like, I don't see them using the AR glasses.

Speaker C: No, no, I don't. I don't. I just don't. I just don't think it's gonna be a thing. And it's just. They're so ugly. They're so ugly.

Speaker D: They are so ugly.

Speaker C: I can't.

Speaker D: They look like an attempt to yassify Harry Potter's glasses that failed. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Oh, my God, you're serving Harry. And proof that it's giving magic is that they have Imogen Heap, uh, wrapping them. You know what, she's super forward looking. Those gloves are crazy. Like, she does have sort of a good nose for this tech. But again, all love to Ms. Heep. Uh, the stuff that she backs does not take off. And that's because there's.

Speaker C: I love how you New York Times style guided that critique Ms. Heap did.

Speaker A: I stole that from Chris Fleming. He has a joke in his new special about. He's like, I look like someone who really needs to talk to Imogen Heap. And he's like, I have a message for Ms. Heep.

Speaker D: She visited our office once back when I was an, um, assistant, and I had to watch her suitcase while she was doing a meeting. And so I was supposed to sit there with her suitcase. And then I got distracted because I wanted to have a snack. And then I remember running back to make sure nobody stole this leather suitcase.

Speaker A: Oh, my God, it probably had the gloves.

Speaker D: I know.

Speaker A: Probably also missed opportunity for that movie Hide and Seek. To not have a cameo from Imogen Heap.

Speaker C: I didn't see Hide and Seek, but I'll take your word for it. Would it have worked?

Speaker A: I would never watch it, but I assume she's not in it.

Speaker C: Well, I mean, I guess Snapchat. I feel like you should just go back to your previous business model, being a farm system for stuff that's more successful on Instagram. Yaz, what are you keeping tabs on?

Speaker D: Um, so Armie Hammer has been trying to revive his career. There's a long the Hollywood Reporter sort of feature interview with him. Um, he's been kind of doing some of the rounds. Um, but he's just been cast in a project, you know, against all odds. And so I was like, what is this project? And it's a new movie directed by. I'm gonna butcher this guy's name. Uwe Bolt. Do you guys know who I'm talking about?

Speaker C: No. Is he.

Speaker D: He's the worst movie director in the world. How do you guys not know about this?

Speaker B: What.

Speaker D: What has he done? What films? He's German. He's made Blood Rain, House of the Dead, Alone in the Dark, and they are considered, per Wikipedia and per. Just generally people, three of the worst films ever made.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker D: I think he won, like, a Golden Raspberry Lifetime achievement award.

Speaker A: He's wearing a T shirt on his Wikipedia that says, like, Cafe Milf.

Speaker C: Wow, he looks incredibly German.

Speaker D: At one point, he was, like, so mad about critics that he, like, decided to fight them in a boxing match. And I guess, like, his thing is adapting video games into terrible movies.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker D: Have you guys never heard of this guy? He was in, like, so many.

Speaker A: Uh, I haven't. But what is the Armie Hammer project? Is it the. Another Assassin's Creed, uh, adaptation, I think.

Speaker D: No, no, no. It's a movie called Citizen Vigilante, a politically themed vigilante thriller addressing crime and migration in Europe. This is about to go so wrong.

Speaker A: Oh, my God, it's so funny.

Speaker C: Armie Hammer is one of those things where, you know, every time you're on, like, X and. Or you watch Bill Maher, and they're just like, cancel culture has run amok. But then you just want to. I just always want to ask, like, but okay, specifically, let's talk about specific examples. Armie Hammer, why was he canceled? And then you're like, okay, maybe cancel culture got it right this time. The whole cannibalism of it all.

Speaker A: I don't even think that's the worst part of it. But he was, like, sort of rightfully canceled.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think it was a sexual assault cannibalism. I was like, dude, do it.

Speaker C: It was more like, wasn't it like domestic violence and sexual assault? Uh, stuff like that. Okay. But the cannibalism, allegedly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that should be an amazing film.

Speaker D: I would encourage you to go read, to go read this guy's like Wikipedia, because it's so insane. Um, and I can't emphasize how bad these movies are.

Speaker A: And that's U W E B O

Speaker D: B O L L in 2009. So this is a while ago. He received a rare worst career achievement award at the Razzies.

Speaker C: Oh my God, that's incredible. I mean, shout out to you, Uwe Bol.

Speaker D: You know, when I talked about Uwe, um, having this boxing match where he fights his critics, um, that boxing match was called Raging Bull.

Speaker A: Oh, yes.

Speaker C: I can't hear any more about this. We gotta get out of this episode. And that's it for most innovative companies. David, thanks so much for joining, uh, us.

Speaker A: Thanks. It's always a good time talking about

Speaker C: world changing ideas and more importantly, the entire career of Uwe Bowl.

Speaker D: We will be back next week with another episode of Mic, so make sure you are subscribed to the Fast Company channel. And since you are here and made it to the end of the episode, you made it through the Uwe bowl segment. Take a look at some of our other videos and let us know what you think in the comments. Thanks for watching and we will see you next week.