Sherry Thomas's sleuthing librarians and gender-bent Sherlock

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Speaker B: Welcome to the Modern Law Library. I'm your host, Lee Rawls, and today I'm joined by Sherry Thomas, author of the new mystery book the Librarians and of, uh, the long running Lady Sherlock series, a historical mystery. Sheri, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker C: It's my pleasure to be here.

Speaker B: I've really wanted to get more into the mystery genre for my listeners. We do an awful lot of nonfiction, but in my personal life I read a lot of fiction and I know that audience, uh, members seem to like when we talk about, you know, legal thrillers and mysteries. So I was reading, I picked up your new book, the Librarians, and really enjoyed it. And then I saw your name. I was like, wait, is that. And it turned out that you are the author of a series that, uh, I had been following. So thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you came to be a writer at all and then to find these genres?

Speaker C: Well, I came to writing in a, uh, bit sideways in the sense that I think when I was maybe 10 years old, I very much loved, uh, reading. I thought, I'll grow up and write children's literature. And then I actually tried my hand at it like 1112 and realized I didn't know what to say once I've written the first page. Like, I had no idea where any story should go. Tried several times and was like, okay, that's clearly a sign from above as I should do other things. So I did go on to do other things. My undergrad education was in economics and, uh, economic is a totally useless major if you only do it as an undergrad. So obviously it was intended as a stepping stone to grad school. And I was going to study international relations. And then man proposes, God disposes, and I instead became a stay at home mom at the ripe old age of 21.

Speaker B: Oh my goodness.

Speaker C: Did not go to grad school. And Two years into my career as stay at home mom, I grabbed a historical romance, which I devoured growing up. I grabbed a historical romance from the library, uh, took it home and was going to spend my, uh, son's nap time enjoying it. But it so turned out that I do not enjoy that book at all. In fact, I was kind of furious at it because I didn't enjoy it at all. And I spent the entirety of my available time that day on, um, that and did not get any pleasure in return. So very seldom does this ever happen to me. But on that day I was kind of angry. And by the time my husband returned home from work, I said to him, I am going to write historical romances

Speaker B: because I know I can do a better job than that person.

Speaker C: I am not sure whether that was actually what I thought, but I thought, I thought, I was like, if this can make money, surely I can do. But the thing was, that book may not just, may not have suited me. It was written by an author that I enjoyed greatly as a younger person. It just may not have suited me at that moment. So it's not to not to say the book lacked merits. It just, it did not match up with where I was at my life at that time.

Speaker B: I think that's so true. There have been many times when I've tried to go back to a book that I adored as a child. And, you know, sometimes it's because you as an adult are like, oh, wait, this is colonialism, this is eugenics, this is alarming. And sometimes it's just, you know, you needed that book at a certain point in your life and you no longer do so.

Speaker C: Alchemy of reading. You know, no two readers ever read the same book and no person ever reads the same book again.

Speaker B: Yeah. And there have been books where I've been like, oh, if only I could go back and read this again for the first time.

Speaker C: I know, right?

Speaker B: But part of the Magic of the Librarians, which is your most recently released book, is that it is set in a library. And this isn't, you know, uh, the Hogwarts of libraries. This is your kind of basic district library. It's in Austin, Texas, and everything about it should be low key. And then it turns out to not at all be that way. And it does seem like a bit of a departure. You have written historical romance and contemporary romance and YA fantasy and historical mystery, but this is a contemporary mystery. So I would love to hear from you about the Librarians and, you know, what sparked it?

Speaker C: What sparked it as it so often is. Is a request from the publisher.

Speaker B: He's like, this is what we'll sell. Sherry.

Speaker C: They just came to me with, uh, they said, uh, for your new contract, we would like, uh, two more Lady Sherlock books, and we would like you to write a book with a trio of female librarians, uh, in a contemporary setting. And they specifically said, we want this to be the Thursday Murder Club, but with librarians. Uh, and at that point, I had not actually read the Thursday Murder Club, which I immediately went and found and enjoyed. And I was like, oh, okay. So it is cozy, but with a international crime bent with interesting, uh, characters with their own goals and life stories. I was like, I could do this. I especially asked them, is the international aspect of the Thursday Murder Club okay? And they say, yes. And I just went wild with it. So it is this little library, but it's connected to, like, a world wide web of crime and, uh, cryptocurrency and whatnot.

Speaker B: Well, and, you know, not to, not to do too many spoilers, but, uh, a, you know, technically a little bit of a kidnapping and, uh, hidden identities and long lost love and, uh, you know, you. You were able to weave together. You mentioned that there are three female librarians, but there's also a male librarian.

Speaker C: Three female librarians was actually written in my contract, but I wanted to add a little balance. Yes. Because the librarian who helped me the most, uh, in the research for this book is a gentleman. So I was like, he should be celebrated.

Speaker B: Yes. That's one of the things I wanted to say. What I loved about the librarians was it more closely reflected the diversity that I see from my friends who are librarians or when I go to my public library, there may be in, like, our popular cultural ideas, this idea of a librarian as a older, middle aged white woman who probably never left the town. And that just isn't the lived experience.

Speaker C: That is not at all the lived experience. Lots of librarians being a librarian is maybe their second or third career. They have done other things, and then they came to the library because they've always been big readers. They've always loved libraries and other things they were doing, you know, kind of. And they are interested in public service. So among writers, there are any many current and former librarians. So just from knowing them, you immediately get this idea of the diversity of their backgrounds and, uh, everything. And they're very interesting life stories.

Speaker B: Um, and they are very interesting life stories. Uh, for example, the male librarian, Jonathan, who we spoke about was a former closeted high school athlete who Then went into the military, never really found himself. And, you know, after his military time ended, he decided to go, you know, use the GI Bill and go to library school.

Speaker C: The greatest use of a GI Bill ever.

Speaker B: Greatest use of a GI Bill ever, for sure. And each of the librarians does come from a very different background. You have the woman administrator in charge is Sophia. And I would say the first couple chapters, she felt very remote, because I think that she feels remote to her co workers. And then you find out her deep and rich history and, you know, how she became a single mother and, uh, is navigating being a black woman raising a black daughter in Austin, Texas. And you have Astrid, who, uh, the first couple chapters, Astrid is the youngest librarian.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And I'm like, what is your deal? You seem very needy, but also so alone. And you come to find out her story. I think that we can spoil it because you yourself.

Speaker C: I think we spoil it because it's spoiled in the writing, the first or second chapter. Yeah.

Speaker B: And Astrid, who comes from an Iowa farm family, went to college and did something that I think many people have done, which is invent a new backstory for themselves when they hit college.

Speaker C: Totally new one.

Speaker B: Unfortunately for adult Astrid, teenage Astrid was like. And my story is going to be that I am a Swedish exchange student and I'm going to use a Swedish accent and talk about Malmo and Sweden's dairy production was totally unable to escape this false self she had built for herself. So she is now, I think, late twenties. What I.

Speaker C: Late twenties. Yes.

Speaker B: And trapped.

Speaker C: Still stuck.

Speaker B: Trapped in this lie that she had

Speaker C: constructed for her in her Scandinavian identity.

Speaker B: In her Scandinavian identity, talking about Malmo, where she's never been.

Speaker C: Uh, the farm not far from Malmo.

Speaker B: That's true. She makes that very clear. Yes. Uh, and so these are characters which, with, like I said, just such interesting quirks and backstories. And we haven't even come to the

Speaker C: woman I have to point out with, as far as. I mean, we all know this. Uh, I don't know whether we all know this, but I think in Austin, Texas, it's kind of a legend because Matthew McConaughey went to UT Austin and supposedly sported a Australian accent for the whole first year when he was a freshman. Yeah. But then he came.

Speaker D: Yeah, he.

Speaker C: He came clean. But,

Speaker E: uh.

Speaker C: But Astra didn't have that kind of guts. I guess she just felt stuck. Yeah.

Speaker B: And so she's. She's having to approximate a Swedish accent in her job as a librarian and never make any super close friends because they'll discover her non Swedish ness. And she acts as though there are, I don't know, accent police who will come and take her away. And of course, that's not her actual

Speaker C: experience, but our greatest. What is this? Our greatest fear is fear itself.

Speaker B: Uh, yes, yes. Um, and we have not even come to the woman who I feel like really springs forward like she. Her presence galvanizes a lot of the underlying mystery, which is Hazel. Can you talk a little bit about Hazel and her grandmother, who I adore. Nai Nai.

Speaker C: So Hazel is actually not a librarian in the strict sense of librarianship because she does not have a degree in library, uh, information science. Um, so she enters the library as a library clerk. So maybe in legal terms, she's a paralegal. I'm not quite sure what the exact parallel is, but. So she is there to do the grunt work of the library. But her arrival is often the case in this kind of stories. The arrival of a stranger is what kicks off a whole string of events that make people who are already there kind of look at their life, or it kind of changes everybody's circumstances just enough that they start becoming different person or they start living different lives. So in this sense, Hazel's arrival was a little bit like Gandalf coming to, uh, the Shire and kick Bilbo Baggins out of the door onto a great adventure. So don't want to give too much away, but, um, Hazel is. Was born in Austin, but, uh, when she was 10 years old, her mom is from Singapore. Her parents are. Her dad is an Asian American. Her mom was from Singapore. So when she was 10, her parents got divorced, so she went back with her mom to Singapore. And then now at about. I don't know how old she is. She is. She's approximately 35. She came back and, uh, got a job at the library because she came to live with her grandmother, but her grandmother didn't want her underfoot all the time.

Speaker B: Her grandmother's busy. Her grandmother has a lot going on.

Speaker C: Her grandmother has a life. Her grandmother has to go, uh, work out. Her grandmother has several book clubs. Her grandmother, you know, uh, has to

Speaker B: defeat a bunch of youths, plays lots

Speaker C: of game game online, and is extremely competitive. So grandma has a life. Grandma doesn't want Hazel moping around.

Speaker B: All right, so again, we don't want to do too many spoilers. This is a mystery. But I will say that very early in the book, um, you meet the librarians as they're about to throw the library's first game night, where they're hoping to attract kind of younger crowd, and everyone will play, you know, board games and have a grand old time. And it's. It's near Halloween, and the game night seemingly goes well, but off without a good glitch. Oh, yeah, you know, and people come in costume, uh, including a Sherlock Holmes, uh, nod, and, uh, then, uh, shortly thereafter, two people wind up dead. And I think that's all we're gonna say about the plot at that point, but you can pick up the librarians and find out more. We're gonna take a quick break to hear from our advertisers, but when we return, I'll still be speaking with Sherry Thomas about her writing career and her Lady Sherlock series.

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Speaker B: Welcome back to the modern law, uh, library. I am here with Sherry Thomas and Sherry, the first book of yours that I read was A Study in Scarlet Women, which was the first book in your Lady Sherlock series. And as I said, we want to be doing more mystery coverage. And what could be more traditional than a, uh, Sherlock Holmes related mystery. So I want to hear from you. Like I said, there was a little Easter egg in the librarians nodding to Sherlock. Have you had like a long standing love of Sherlock Holmes and Arthur Conan Doyle? How did you come to write this series?

Speaker C: I have always enjoyed just reading, reading everything I could get my hands on. And so I first read the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes in Chinese, translated into Chinese when I was, uh, a little girl in China from my, uh, my grandfather got them for me from, um, the library of his medical college where he was a professor. And the slightly odd thing about my love of Sherlock Holmes is that I read original, uh, canon Sherlock Holmes and then almost immediately read what they call Pastiche, which is Sherlock Holmes stories featuring the original characters but written by other authors. And so I read the 7% solution, which is one of the most successful, most famous books in the Sherlock Holmes canon. When I was like either in fifth or sixth grade, like shortly after I read the original books, uh, lots of the original stories. And it kind of fascinated me. I mean, I knew I was reading Sherlock Holmes written by someone else. And it kind of fascinated me because the premise of the 7% solution was that when Sherlock Holmes disappeared for those three years following the Reichenbach Falls. No, he hadn't actually disappeared. And maybe he hadn't fallen off the Reichenbach Falls either. It was being so long ago, I can't quite remember the details, but basically he was in, he was in rehab, he was in detox, he was getting over his drug habit from injecting himself with cocaine all the time.

Speaker B: Well, something needed to happen. It's usually not very simple for someone to kick morphia or.

Speaker C: Exactly. I just absolutely loved it. Like when you read Sherlock Holmes stories original, you're just like, oh, yeah, sure, he's shooting himself up with, um, something exciting. Uh, and then it's like, yes, this is something that actually has counseling. It's a very different take on the character. I mean, on the habit, on the vice that he's well known for. And it's an exploration. What if you come at, uh, Sherlock Holmes from a completely different perspective as somebody who's fallible, who has to pay the price for doing whatever he wants to. So in my mind, these two were always parallel. And so in my future reading, I had always loved the Pastiche almost as much as I love the original. And one book that influenced me a lot was the Beekeeper's Apprentice by Laurie R. King.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, she's a master of the genre.

Speaker C: Exactly. In her, uh, Sherlock Holmes and Mary Russell series, or I should say Mary Russell and Sherlock Holmes series in which she gave Sherlock Holmes a female partner who's basically the exact temperament and exact same like brain power as the original, as the original Sherlock Holmes. And I love those books. And the moment I read those books I was like, I wish I could write something like that. It was a very strong desire. But at that point I thought, you know, plotting is actually my weak point. And I had just started my romance career. I just Random House at that point had bought my first historical, uh, romance, but it hadn't even published yet. So I was in the middle of going to grad school and writing my second one. So it was like, this is not the right time, but fast forward a, uh, few years and I'd written nine romances and I was running out of ideas and I was like, let me see if my publisher will buy a gender bent Sherlock Holmes from me. Because if you want to write Sherlock Holmes pastiche, so many people have tried their hands on it and there've been so many good works, so you gotta bring a new perspective. And so I basically went online and searched like, has anyone actually published, other than maybe in fan fiction space, had, uh, anyone ever published a female Sherlock Holmes? As it turned out, there wasn't. So I was like, maybe I could do it. And my first idea, believe it or not, was actually not to write a historical mystery with the female Sherlock Holmes, but to write a contemporary middle grade book. Middle grade, A YA book. But my YA editor heard the idea and said, sorry, but mysteries don't sell in ya. So then it was like, okay, to my adult publisher, would you like this? They said, sure, we'll take three books, go home and write.

Speaker B: And it's amazing to me that you say, you know, oh, YA people don't buy mysteries. Uh, because as you were talking about your first exposure to Sherlock Holmes, I realized I read the actual Arthur Conan Doyle stories after you, uh, know. I was probably a teenager, but when I was maybe 10, 11, I devoured a series about the Baker Street Irregulars. And I wish sitting here I could tell you who that author and series was. But that was my first exposure to the Sherlock Holmes world. Yeah, and he does seem like a character who has captured the imagination of so many authors. There's so much pastiche that he exists almost as a force unto himself. And I think that Arthur Conan Doyle felt that way too in his life. Like, oh, I am cursed by this powerful being I can't get away from.

Speaker C: I know even Reichenbach Falls couldn't kill him.

Speaker B: What if I just kill him and then what if I need money three years later? Poor Arthur Conan Doyle.

Speaker C: Poor Arthur Conan Doyle.

Speaker B: But I interrupted. So you approached your adult editor and he was like, oh, she was, yeah, she.

Speaker C: She interested? Yeah. They said they'll take it. And that came to it at the right time in the sense that, uh, traditional publishing was losing authors in droves at that time because it was the rise of self publishing. And so even though I was like, I will write you something different, but I was still willing to write for them. So they were like, yes, yeah, here's some money. Now go home and give us these three books. So it was a good point, because otherwise I don't think publishers are quite as supportive about just complete genre changes as that. Usually they prefer you to keep writing what you're writing.

Speaker B: So we have hinted. So this is a female Sherlock Holmes. Okay. But that doesn't get into the full depth of Charlotte. Who is the character? Could you tell us a little bit about Charlotte? Her sister Livia, who I love. What was your character development like for this heroine who you will now be releasing? Is that her ninth book in the fall?

Speaker C: Yes, it'll be the ninth. The Vanished Sister will be the ninth Lady Sherlock book coming out late September of this year, I think.

Speaker B: And we meet her in A Study in Scarlet Women, who, as you said, it was your first book, but it sounds like you had at least a three book deal. You knew that you were going to have to develop a character who could travel through time, have multiple adventures. And I see why you originally thought, oh, maybe this was contemporary, because as contemporary women, we have a lot more freedom. But this series is set during the time period of the original Sherlock Holmes. Of the original Sherlock holmes in the 1880s.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You would think that there were many more barriers and strictures on women, particularly in Charlotte's class.

Speaker C: Sherlock Holmes is generally thought to have come from either the upper gentry or the lower aristocracy, which is exactly where I've placed Sherlock Holmes his gender bent self. Um, but the thing is, moving through the world as a woman is a very different experience than moving through the world as a man. I think, uh, especially 100, 150 years ago, there were just so much more leeway to what a man could do as opposed to what a woman could do. There's so many more opportunities, uh, so many, so many fewer questions asked of what are you doing? Or so many times being told, you cannot do this. Why? Because you are a woman. Right. Because I'll bet a man has never been. There's so many things we're told as women cannot do that men haven't heard. And all of this, I think, has a huge effect on how someone grows up. So my Sherlock Holmes, as a result of that, she's not the exact. She's not just Sherlock Holmes in a dress. I had to take into consideration what kind of pressure she was under, what kind of career, I mean, not career option, what kind of life options she had. Basically, she had only one life option, which is to grow up and be a pretty personable lady and get married. Um, and what can you do in addition to that? So she was navigating a very narrow path which one could fall off at any moment. And, um, we say this glibly now, but being a lone, unsupported, poor spinster was a very much feared fate back then. Because you really are alone, you really are unsupported. And you really have, you know, very few means to improve your lot or to just even live with as much, ah, dignity as you like. So Charlotte, having the mind of a Sherlock Holmes, wants to forge a path for herself. But even she had to pay a great price for it in that without her family support, she cannot go to school and become a headmistress at a girls school as she had hoped to be. Uh, she had thought that was her way to independence, but her father refused to support her after telling her all throughout her adolescent and early 20s that, yes, he will support her if by age 25 she still hasn't found somebody she'd like to marry. So the book starts with Charlotte becoming a fallen woman, not out of choice, but she was trying to get rid of her maidenhead so that she becomes ineligible so that her father will have to send her school. But something goes awry and she's seen doing it. She's basically caught in the middle of it. And so then she becomes an, uh, outcast. But then her life kind of only begins as she becomes an outcast. Because there are people who's sort of in this gray area between totally acceptable and totally rejected who are willing to help her. And, uh, that's where her Watson comes from. Mrs. Watson, who used to be. I love Mrs. Watson, who used to be an actress. And therefore her respectability is also always a little bit questionable, despite having been later respectfully married. So, yeah, so this is where she draws support. This is where her story starts about being able to actually use her talent to support herself. So Charlotte's characteristic, unlike, uh, Sherlock Holmes, she does not have the luxury of Taking just the cases she find interesting because she has to make money.

Speaker B: So some of them are. They start out as the kind of quote unquote lowly case that someone might.

Speaker C: Very quotidian, uh, cases. Um, yeah. Uh, not all exciting murders and like very intriguing mysteries, but of course the ones that we focus our attention on art. And also she cannot really shoot herself up with cocaine. So her vice is carbs basically. She's very fond of all kinds of refined carbs and has to periodically watch out because clothes back then aren't as elastic as they are now and she's not made of money so she has to keep being able to wear the same clothes.

Speaker B: Well, we need to take another break to hear from our advertisers. When you return, I'll still be speaking with Sherry Thomas. Welcome back to the Modern Law Library. I'm um, your host Lee Rawls here with Sheri Thomas and we were just discussing the Lady Sherlock series. So you said that you initially had a three book deal and it's now it's extended to nine.

Speaker C: I recently signed a contract so there'll be at least 11.

Speaker B: Oh, I feel that this is breaking news on, on um, the Modern M Law Library podcast. You heard it here? Uh, or maybe you didn't, but it's news to me. Thrilled to hear it. When you are the author of a long running series, you want to keep true to the character you created. But all of us through life develop and change. How do you think your Charlotte has changed? I also I have the opportunity to ask you the author now. I read the books as Charlotte also being neurodiverse. I, I don't know if we would, if she would have been diagnosed as autistic were she a child today or uh, but something obviously she's out of

Speaker C: the orb on the borderline, probably. On the borderline, yes.

Speaker B: I mean she has this genius that, that the canon Sherlock Holmes had and that does not necessarily make an easy life, particularly when it comes to fitting in to society. But you've got this long running series. She has to be able to grow and change but still remain herself. And I just wonder how you think about that as you write her.

Speaker C: One of um, Charlotte's greatest growth is that she becomes more capable of expressing herself, uh, and of returning other people's affections in a way that they will understand. That I think has been her path because she has always being capable of being loved. I think Charlotte has never had that problem. She very much takes a matter of fact that, you know, somebody's good to her, she knows who is sincerely kind and, uh, caring toward her. But she has sometimes had trouble expressing love toward other people or expressing love in a way that they will perceive as love without having to think very hard about it. So that has been her path because career wise, she's already set. She's already, you know, Sherlock Holmes is the best. Every case is difficult, and every case, she'll face setbacks, but Sherlock Holmes always solves her case. So that is not where her thing come. Her thing is like. And because she isn't the original male Sherlock Holmes M. I didn't instill her with too much arrogance that need to be worn down on. Um, so that's also not where. So for her thing, it's just emotionally, she learns to open up more. She learns to express. She learns to understand other people's language of love. And I feel like one of the greatest arcs in these stories, actually her sister Livia, who is the scribe, who is the one officially, uh, translating Charlotte stories into canon Sherlock Holmes stories, because every Sherlock Holmes pastiche needs someone like that. And she has been going from someone extremely insecure, extremely afraid of challenging the norms and the expectations placed on women to somebody who's more capable of it. Like, she'll always be somewhat insecure. She will always be little fearful of doing the things she really want to do, but now she's actually doing those things instead of just like, just kind of sitting in, you know, in the. Against the restrictions placed on her, but not being able to, you know, to actually go after what she wants.

Speaker B: And when you come to the part about experiencing love and then learning how to express it towards someone else, I feel like your background as a romance writer had to have helped with that. And it's interesting because many of the historical romances or romances that I have read, they'll have some sort of mystery element thrown in, but that's not their primary purpose. You know, that's kind of a device that helps the, uh, two love interests interact with.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: But when we talk about thinking up different backgrounds for characters than the stereotypes we have about them, I feel like the. The romance industry is getting better at this. But acknowledging that historical romance should include people who are not just rich and white, because that's not who lived in the past.

Speaker E: No.

Speaker B: No other people were there too. So can you talk a little bit about your writing in the historical romance and how you have tried to reflect actual history and the diversity that existed in real life?

Speaker C: I have to say I did not do a terribly good job at it

Speaker B: you are fighting against an industry that has a certain script.

Speaker C: When I was writing historical romance, my idea of diversity was just setting my story in different places. And it was very, very difficult because I had one that featured rich, beautiful looking Anglo Saxon people in India. And that book lost me my Walmart distribution for my next historical romance because people, the readers were not very receptive um, even to a diverse setting. Um, so my only real challenge to the status quo was my last book which featured a half Chinese heroine and is who is a martial arts expert, uh, because I grew up reading martial arts ethics and a lot of it is set in uh, Central Asia and it has the, the background is the uh, the Great Game which is the name for that period of time when Russia, England and uh, China were trying to divide up Central Asia among them. So that was the background setting that was like a lot more real history, a lot more heartbreak, uh, a lot more just unusual for historical romance setting at that time, but not necessarily unusual for historical romance as a whole. If you go back to the 70s, a lot of those were globe trotting, were like globetrotting volumes, uh, uh, falling through all kinds of wars and great historical events, meeting actual historical personages. But like historical romance has unfortunately contracted and contracted and become smaller and smaller and completely focused in Britain and during like a very narrow band of time. And that was part of the reason I left historical romance. And I think it's a lot easier to bring a more diverse cast into mysteries, um, because you don't have to guarantee anybody a happy ending. So you don't need to uh, at least like tell them, okay, these people reassure people up front that at least one of those people has lots of agency and um, there'll be no problem as soon as you can sort out your romantic problems.

Speaker B: But for listeners who did want to pick up those last books where it's you know, the great game setting, I believe that's the heart of Blade duology. Is that correct?

Speaker C: That is correct. Uh, that is correct. The first book is actually a coming of age uh, YA story called the Hidden Blade. And the second is a historical published as a historical romance. It's called My Beautiful Enemy and it's I think my personal favorite among my historical um, romances. And the thing is, late 19th century Britain was just not a very diverse place. Like the number of minorities were kind of limited. But in a mystery you actually get to meet a lot of those people and you actually get to, to meet regular working people, poor people, uh, people in the service, um, class and so, yeah, it's much easier to bring diversity to a, um, mystery than it is to a historical romance where the readership was not very accepting of it. And I think we talked about this already, which the contemporary is even easier because we actually reflect how a workplace is in contemporary times. And in a place like Austin, it is very diverse. Thank goodness.

Speaker B: Well, I want to close out our discussion by talking to you about advice for people who are interested in writing, because I think that many of my listeners, especially lawyers, I've never, not never, but I've talked to so many lawyers who will be like, well, I have, you know, I have this book idea and someday I want to write it, et cetera. But one of the things I found fascinating about our conversation is, and maybe this goes back to your background as, uh, an economics person is you are very intentional about finding out, well, what's the market? What can sell? Because you can write a wonderful epic, but if you can't get it in front of readers eyes, what, you know, what are you going to get from that other than personal satisfaction? So if someone does have the thought, oh, I would love to write mysteries, or I have a great idea, what would you recommend for them to put as their next step?

Speaker C: Well, if you want to have a foot in the marketplace, I think it is always good to do your research. You want to not just study the bestseller list to see who is currently selling. Well, what you want to know is who publishers are buying. Assuming you want to go traditional publishing, you want to see, see what new books are coming out, and you want, you want to. So say, for example, you want to write cozy mysteries or you want to write legal thrillers. You don't just look at what the established writers are writing. They can get away with a lot more than you can. Or often they can sell a book to their publisher, sight unseen. Um, means the publisher will just come to you and say, well, two more of your books, that's good enough. But for a new writer, they're much more stringent. So you want to see, see what are the books that are being published right now. And if you have the time and inclination, you can get a subscription to Publishers Marketplace, which will tell you in real time what publishers are buying the books that have come out because there's a delay in traditional publishing, but what publishers are currently buying. And then you can see, okay, what is currently selling. But the thing is, unless you're a very fast writer, I also do not advise necessarily writing to exactly what is currently selling, because by the time you finish, uh, your draft and you put it into a shape that's good enough to sell. The trend may have moved down a little bit. So what you want to do is also read widely in what you're interested in publishing. Then you can sort of spot the gap. What is something that you would like to read but nobody's producing. That is your niche. Like I did, you know, 10 years or more ago when I said to myself, I would love to write a Sherlock Holmes story. So what was the gap that I saw? I saw there was no gender, Ben Sherlock Holmes available at that time from traditional publishing. So I was like, let me propose it. So you want to be able to spot your own, um, opportunity. And also it'll be good to get into, uh, writers groups. Get into writers group because other writers who are at the same stage you are or who are just newly published often has the most current, most useful information if you want the agent, if you want to, uh, find out which conferences are correct for you if you want to. Some people might even be interested in writing short fiction, which places still paying for it and are considered legit credits. All those you will learn from your fellow writers. So get yourself a community of writers.

Speaker B: I love that. And I love that this isn't a spoiler at the end of the librarians. They truly have formed their own supportive little community and I love that for them. Will there be more of the librarians

Speaker C: that I'm not sure. That would depend on the marketplace receptivity. It was pitched to me as a standalone and right before I turned it in, I made sure you still wanted as a standalone. So then I tied everything up.

Speaker B: It does work. It's tied up, but I could see, I could see other adventures for, for this crew so well. Sheri, I want to thank you so much for coming on to talk to the Modern Law. Ah, library listeners. I hope that you enjoyed this. If you're interested in reading more from Sherry Thomas, sherry thomas.com is her website. Sherry, are you on any other social, uh, media sites we can point people to?

Speaker C: I am on, um, bluesky asheretomas.com and I am on, um, Instagram writersherrythomas. But I'm not very active on social media. So, um, you're too busy.

Speaker F: Right.

Speaker C: About my books, uh, my website is the best place.

Speaker B: If you have a favorite mystery book or legal thriller, please go ahead and write into us at the Modern law library@legaltalknetwork.com. that's ModernLaw library@legaltalknetwork.Com and if you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe in your favorite podcast listening service.

Speaker D: The views expressed by participants and sponsors of this program are their own and do not necessarily reflect the positions of their employers, Legal Talk Network Infotrack, or their respective employees or associates. Content provided in this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and may not be accurate, complete or up to date. This program does not constitute legal, financial or tax advice. Do not act or refrain from acting upon this information without first contact, consulting a licensed attorney or other qualified professional.