206: Solving the Global Water Crisis for Just 30 Cents with Kurt Avery

Speaker A: You ever wondered what it would mean if clean water was truly accessible to everyone on this planet? Or maybe you thought about how one simple innovation could save lives, empower communities, and help protect Mama Earth all at once. You are, uh, not alone. And that is exactly what we are exploring on today's episode of Mama Earth Talk. But before we dig in, I've got something special for you guys. We have just finished our, uh, month of April, which was also Earth Month, and we celebrated Earth Day, and it was my birthday, so it was a full on month. And as part of that, I actually made my online course free. So I decided to give back to the community that's been supporting me. So you can actually go on our Instagram and check out the post day by day, or you can go and kind of just like work your way through every single video from the modules. Um, everything will be there. Please let me know if it actually made a difference to you, if there was something you were like, hang on, Mariska, why the hell did you do that? I would love to hear from you. And let's just, like, continue this journey together. So, so excited for you guys to have a look at that. So, yeah. Well, let's dig into today's episode. Hey, crazy birds. And welcome to another episode of, um, MamaEarth Talk, where we dive into real conversations about sustainability. We share honest stories, and we explore practical ways to actually reduce waste, go green, and live more consciously. I'm your host, Maris Canal. So our guest today is the owner and the founder of Soya Products and someone who has dedicated his life to solving one of the world's most urgent challenges, and that is access to clean water through innovation, partnerships, and a business model that actually gives back, donating 90% of their profits in a truly powerful way. Crazy birds. Without any further ado, I would like to welcome Kurt Avery. Welcome to the podcast, Kurt.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Great to be here.

Speaker A: You are most welcome. Let's dig right in there. How did your sustainable journey actually start?

Speaker B: Oh, uh, how far back you want to go?

Speaker A: All the way. How did it start?

Speaker B: I grew up as a country boy. You know, you're probably going to get into generosity later. I grew up, we had, you know, farm stuff and we'd had the farm stand and, you know, there's always 13 ears of corn and a dozen and extra tomatoes. And here, have a cucumber. So we always kind of had that generosity built in. Went to a small college, did well, went and to, then went to Kellogg Graduate School of Management at Northwestern, uh, University. That's when things kind of took root that I, somewhere along the way I picked up some skills and so headed into the marketing world, Had a pretty good storied career, worked for some pretty good people, and then said, you know what? I heard my boss take credit for everything I did one day. And I said that, I see how this game works. I'm out of here. So that's when we started sawyer back in 1984.

Speaker A: Oh, wow. That's the same year my sister was born. So it's going all the way back. I'll remember that date.

Speaker B: Oh, okay.

Speaker A: Well, I was younger then and kind of. What brought you to specifically focus on water?

Speaker B: Well, we. We started out, believe it or not, with a snake bite kit, which is still in the stores today. So it sucks the venom out of a snake bite. And that got us into the camping industry. Then, you know, this was back before you really had the Internet. So we would spend 12 hours a day in the stores, the high end, um, REI camping type stores or Bass Pro Cabellos. And you just listen, what problems do you have? And that led us into sunscreens, insect repellents, and then you try and figure out what solves their problem, even if they don't know how to explain it. And water was a big one. They were carrying these very heavy, clunky things that were, well, they were okay, but they were hard to manage and whatever. And we came across the technology from kidney dialysis. So if you can clean blood, you can clean water. So then that thing was huge. I mean, that was a total disruptor. So we went to the retailers and we said, this is going to solve the problem for water and the hikers and campers and all that kind of stuff. And, um, we said, well, we're going to sell for 1999. And they said, no way. We sell these things for 100 bucks. We make 50 bucks a piece. Why would we give up making 50 bucks to make 10? I said, because you're going to sell a lot more. So, you know, and then we did. We took the market from 70,000 units a year to millions of units a year. So would you rather have, you know, $70,050 bills or a million $10 bills? So it didn't take long for that to, uh, catch on. From there. You sit there and go, well, you know, this does the water. There's a lot of water problems out there. So we adapted it to, um, same technology, but just changed the way we deliver the system, worked it out, and the, uh, one put us on the map was the earthquake in Haiti in 2010. Uh, we sent a couple hundred thousand filters down there and um, all the charities were there. They saw this. The Minister of Health interviewed the 20 companies that were providing water solutions. And at the end he said, well, now what do you personally use? And all 20 of them personally use the Sawyer filter. So he said, okay, I get it. That's the one that works. And so all the charities found us then and that's what really launched our international efforts. It's the same filter. It's, it's a, uh, high technology. Nobody's been able to copy us in 20 years. So I guess we're kind of out there. Yeah.

Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. And I mean that kind of started to you with, with like all of this, you know, water issues. And I feel, you know, water is something that so many of us take for granted. We walk to one of the many faucets in our home and we can just like open that. Is there a, um, moment or story that kind of made you realize just how urgent this global water crisis really is?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'll give you two that'll kind of emotionally hit you. But we just started because we knew we had, that we had to do this and we just developed one of what we call the bucket system where you, uh, put it in a five gallon bucket and gravity, you know, does it. And these filters never wear out. That's what's unique about them. They last for 15, 20 years. So the guy takes it over and we just starting to install these things and he's over in Africa and we come to install it in one of the house and the grandma's just crying like crazy. Said, if you had just been here two weeks ago, my grandson would still be alive. We said, oh my. Now we know that's pretty important. Um, another one, not too long ago, four or five years ago, one of the missionaries take it to Uganda and he installs it in a village. Well, he, he first he's in the village and he says, okay, I, I notice you don't name your kids till they're three years old. Why is that? They said because we lose so many of them, if they make it to three, we know they're going to live and that's when we'll give them their name. So he goes back with 250 filters for this particular village, goes back again later, and now they name the kids all at birth because they're not losing kids. They can lose up to a third of their kids to bad water. In large parts of the country. So that's when, you know, wow. I mean, we save hundreds of thousands of babies every year.

Speaker A: I mean, that, that is phenomenal. And, um, so I've been kind of working with a few organizations or, well, one in particular search for water as well. And every year when we go through some of these stories of how they've impacted that' you really see. And when you meet some of these people, you know, you don't really understand how of an impact this has made with, you know, actually girls being able to go to school now because they no longer have to walk so far to get access to clean drinking waters. Um, you know, like, it is, it is really bizarre for me to think that it's something I take for granted every single day, yet, you know, it's costing so many people their lives because they don't have access to that. So what you guys are doing is such a critical and important role.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, and we have actually, we, we do measure all this stuff. We have a GIS tracking system. So we give it. If you went to our website, you'd see some of the data. It's staggering. And we save them 10 to 20, 30% of their annual income because they're not buying medicines, they're not having to buy water. Improved water. We reduce the carbon footprint by 50% because they don't need to boil the water. I mean, you talk about environmental sustainability. I mean, you've wiped out half the number of trees or fossil fuels they have to use to, to live. Uh, gives the kids an extra 30 days of schooling, the parents extra 30 days of work for the income. We have places where we've been where they're literally consolidating and closing medical clinics because there's not enough sick people anymore. So it changes the whole thing, changes the relationship between the husband. It gives women to have jobs. There's a lot of places where they now have water clean enough that they can make food to sell and create a business and have income because before just boiling it, it really didn't make it clean enough to make something to sell. So totally transformative. So. And all that data has been published in medical journals. It's available on our website. So you don't have to believe what I'm saying.

Speaker A: It's all proven since Sawyer actually kind of started. Is there, like, do you have an estimate of how many people have actually gained access to clean water through the work that you are doing?

Speaker B: Yeah, we're, we've been tracking it. So we're at 40 million, right. And we typically now we're at we can do 3 to 5 million a year. Each year we're able to do that. Between us and our partners, we just came out with a brand new product that you attach to a faucet or a tap. So we're now to where we can do 40 million a year because this filter does 2 to 400 gallons per day out of $1 20 filter. And they'll do it for the next 10, 20 years. So we're now down to where we can give somebody 10 years of water for 30 cents. Just 30. A one time investment of 30 cents will give a person clean water for 10 years. So we're really at that flex point. That product is brand new by the way. It's only been out for less than a month.

Speaker A: Wow. We'll definitely link that up and in our show notes our crazy verse can go and have a look. And Kurt, kind of from your perspective, what is some of those like bigger barriers to actually solving this global clean water crisis today?

Speaker B: Uh, right now where we are because of this new filter, it's just funding. We do all this at a loss. We make no money on. We have a nice retail profitable business selling into the camping stores and whatnot. Our repellents are number one, number two on Amazon all the time. I mean we are the standard for repellents and water. So we have that nice profitable things. Everything we do overseas we give away. You know, we probably give away 100,000 or more of these filters every year. Each one doing 10 to 15 people so that you know, just what we give away. Plus we subsidize everything so we don't make money on the international park. And we have 140 charities that work with us big and small, you know, World Vision, Red Cross, all of them. Samaritan's purse keeps playing modes of our stuff. We're in 80 countries in places you wouldn't believe that we could actually be there. I mean we've been in Gaza for a long time. We're in North Korea, we're in Iran. We're everywhere because there's waters and problem in 80 countries. As I say, sometimes we don't even know where we are. So it's been a collaboration. There's a lot of people involved in this. We have some challenges once in a while at the customs that you know, they look it up on Amazon. So I'm saying this is a filter that we give away at 20 bucks. They'll look it up on Amazon, say well they're selling it on Amazon for 40 bucks. So we want to tax you at the $40 rate. So we've many times had to abandon the filters. Just, just give them up, say, okay, we're not going to pay you $20 a filter for something that's not worth $20. So we walk away and they got themselves a thousand filters or so. Right now I think the only barrier is funding. We have a coup bottles. We work with the schools now. We give it to the teacher, they have it at the schools, they teach the kids, the kids, then they teach the parents and they send the filters home. And then they have a water station at the school where anybody in the community can come and get water all they want because it's just endless. As fast as the faucet goes, this filter will clean, uh, clean the water to make it drinkable. We don't care. You know, in the rural areas, it doesn't matter if the cows are pooping in the water. We'll make it drinkable instantly.

Speaker A: So that's fascinating. Yeah. And, and I feel, you know, so many people kind of assume like this water crisis is such a big problem, it is too big to solve. So what actually gives you hope that it can be solved?

Speaker B: 30 cents a person. I mean, how cheap is that? So you gotta remember when we, when we give it 30 cents, you are increasing their personal income by 10 to 20%. I mean, if these things pay for themselves in an hour, it, uh, only takes an hour to get your money back out of one of these filters. It's just incredible. So sooner or later people are going to figure it out again. That's a brand new product. The product has always been the same. It's how you deliver. It's been the same. This is the first time we've gotten it to where you put it on a tap. But we have different ways of using it. But no, I think we're right at the cusp now that there's no reason why, why can't you. Do you know, if I made 10 million of these, that would do 100 million people we give it.

Speaker A: That's amazing.

Speaker B: For what? For 30 cents a Pierce.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I, I think we're at that level. We're, we're sniffing around, trying to get state department or philanthropists to get involved. But again, this has only been a month or so since this product was perfected.

Speaker A: So, and kind of talking about, you know, how your technology works. I know some of it is like it's top secret, some elements, but can you kind of talk us through, like the two different ones, obviously the brand new one that kind of goes on the tap and then the other one, like how, how would people physically use it and what makes it kind of different to some of the solutions that currently is on the market?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, we basically have four different ways people use it for natural disasters, hurricanes or whatnot. We have a little pouch that goes with it. So you just scoop up the water and you know, let it, let gravity work. The standby for rural, rural areas is you get a five gallon bucket and you attach it to the bucket and let the gravity. You know, you can empty a 5 gallon bucket in 20 minutes or something like that, which is more than a day's water for a couple of people. And then the way most, a lot of people use it, they just attach it to a bottle, just take a standard Pepsi bottle or whatever and just put the filter on there and oh, wow, that's it. That's the way. That's what Appalachian Trail you're going to see. That's how they use it on the trail. And then the last one that just came out, game changer is being able to put it on a faucet and use it and you just simply clean it. It's just back flush and off you go. So we've got protections in there so that you can't harm the fibers. You know what a, um, uh, lawn thing where you have the little holes in the hose and the water sprinkles out all over the lawn, you know, as opposed to out the end. Think of it doing the opposite of that. So the water goes into the hose and then comes out at the, at the flush part. But the holes are so small that the things that make you sick can't get in there. So our, the largest hole in our filter is 0.1 microns.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Your hair is 17 microns. So the largest hole we have is 170 times thinner than a hair on your head. I don't know how they make it, but they make it okay. Yeah. Yeah. This is widely used in medicine. So we're the only ones that do that. And we test it three times to make sure, um, nobody's been able to match us. I mean, so we are, uh, comfortable. We're the only ones that go in a village and say nobody's going to get sick from the water that comes through this filter. And we generally within two weeks wipe out 95% of all sickness, of the waterborne sickness. There's always the other ones because, you know, they didn't wash their vegetables, they didn't take care of their fecal matter, whatever. Then after a year we're up to 98% once people catch on. And all the other, because we teach best practices, it's behavior change. We got to get them to change the way they thought about water and thought about their vegetables and thought about where to go poop, you know, all that kind of stuff. It's more than just the filter. It's the whole behavioral change.

Speaker A: Exactly. And um, it's really something like when people also travel. So like for us, you know, that's one of the first things that I kind of, you know, check before we go is can I drink the tap water where I go? And then sometimes yes you can. But you know, you must also remember that the people that live there, if they drink that tap water, they probably used to it. Whereas you come from a different country and you know, so having even one of your filters just to kind of, you know, be at ah, like a safe area can also help you not to, you know, get any stomach bugs or stuff while you travel.

Speaker B: Well, even like boil alerts at home. So if you have a boiler, you just, you can still drink the water out of the tap. Through our filter. We're taking out anything they made you boil it for. We do, we take out the micro, microplastics too. So if you don't want to keep worrying about collecting all those in your body, this will filter those out. No, it's, it's, it's amazing little thing. And like I said, they, they never wear out. So. Yeah, hurricanes obviously went anywhere in the world. When you hear a hurricane, we're there. The recent one in Helene up in Tennessee, in North Carolina, we sent 100,000 filters up there. We were flying them in on day two and taking our hiking community, took them to places where helicopters couldn't even land or people couldn't get to. So. Well, you drink the water at your feet, we'll make it safe.

Speaker A: And um, you kind of touched on some of the organizations and partners that you work with. So how important is that actually scaling the impact and how do you choose, like who is these partners that you ah, work with?

Speaker B: Well, we have 140 of them. So if they're working with water, uh, we'll partner with them where we do the whole spectrum. We, we work with the Red Crescent and, and the Red Cross both, you know, because whatever they're doing, everybody needs water. We convert a lot of them. You don't really need to build those wells if they're surface water, because we will make any surface water safe as opposed to I got to go. We had dig down to get to some filtered water through the sand. Um, so we save a lot of money. There was one project that spent $30 million and only got 5 water to 500 homes. It was an Indian reservation for other 4,500 homes. We got them clean water for less than 50 grand. So $30 million for 500 homes or 50 grand for 4,500 homes. I mean, seriously. Yeah, yeah. And then we work with them. So we have. We teach them. We also help learn how to money, how to talk about this stuff. We just finished a big webinar. We had 100. 100 of the charities there, representatives, uh, how you raise money. They. They. So many charities work on the heartstrings. You know, look what we do. But we. But there's metrics. So we're very big on teaching them how to do the metrics. Well, how many did you. We have. Our filters have little QR codes on them, and then we can track it. So if you sign up, we'll know where that filter is. And we go back and we. We check at, uh, two weeks, eight weeks, six months a year, so that we're making sure we're doing the behavior change and they're knowing how to use it and stuff like that. We have WhatsApp so we can communicate with you overseas so we can learn. You can learn how. You know, we have videos on how to install this thing, animations in 18 languages and dialects. So it's not just a filter. You have to do the whole thing

Speaker A: because, I mean, you can have the most, like, amazing product, but if someone doesn't know how to use it or install it, then it kind of becomes obsolete. So that's great. And I mean, Kurt, you. You mentioned that you donate a lot of profits now for crazy birds. Hold on to your boots. It is 90% of profits that you guys actually, you know, donate like that for me, is incredible. Like, firstly, what inspired you to actually make that decision? And how does that model work in practice?

Speaker B: So actually, here's a little secret. It's a lot more than 90%, but people wouldn't understand that. We're privately held. I own 100% of the company, and when I pass on, it goes to the Sawyer Foundation. So, you know, like, Hershey foundation owns Hershey Chocolate. Sawyer foundation will own Sawyer. We could sell this. I get offers once, twice a week to buy this thing. Uh, no way. There's no u Hauls in heaven. So what do I need the money for? You know, my kids are all fine. I would never give them so much money that, that they would be spoiled. So they're having to work and they're all fine, doing fine. A lot of them involved in the company, uh, even though I told them I wouldn't. But they're too talented not to. So we, you know, what is profits? Profits of what's left after you've collected all your revenue and paid all your bills. Well, we're pretty profitable. So they will run the company after I'm gone with some other very, very. I have very talented people. So here's the point. I own 100 of the company. It's sub S. I don't need the money. I'm fine. I've had enough. So what you do is nobody tells me I have to make a profit. So if we give away a filter, it goes, um, if now we're into accounting, it's going to go up against the cost of goods sold line. But there's no revenue to go with it. So it's a pure expense. So we lose money on every filter we give away. Well, that's okay because I don't want the profits anyways. So we always say, you know, if we sold cupcakes, we'd have to make the profit, pay the taxes, and then have money to give away. But if you don't make the profit, you don't have to pay the taxes. So we would rather give it away than, than the federal government deciding where it should go. So we intentionally lose money by giving these filters away and doing research and stuff like that. But we do eventually get down to the profit line. When we do get to the profit line, we give that to the foundation which, you know, funds stuff overseas and all that, projects. Um, we're fine. The house is paid for. I get a new truck every four years. So what? Don't need it. We're doing just fine. So we intentionally don't make profits. But when we do make the profits, because we do it have to keep the bank happy a little bit. So when we do make profits, then we can give that away as well. So it's pretty cool. It's, it's great satisfaction because. Come on, um, seriously, how do you not get these filters in the hands of people who will save their lives and their kids lives? I mean, you got to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's, that's amazing because I know so many people that won't. And something that I turned on quite early on was, it's not about how much money you make, it's how you make your money. And I feel going to bed every single night knowing that you've had an impact on so many people's lives is much better than going to the bank and checking all those zeros.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, I mean, I don't want. I don't want a yacht. I get seasick just thinking about yachts. So, I mean, what do I want the money for? So, no, it's a great thing. And all the kids are there. Everybody in the company is committed to all this. And the newest thing is baby wraps for malaria. Now, we just stumbled upon, we've been making this product for the military for 20, 30 years, where we treat the uniforms with permethrin. Well, a professor at University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill did a study using our insect repellent on the clothes, on the wrap that the mom wear, holds, carries the baby with. And we just wiped out two thirds of the malaria in those kids from ages 0 to 2. So now that's ready to go. And that's very cheap. It costs a little over a buck, buck and a quarter for six months of protection. And we can wipe out childhood malaria. And I know we can do better. Once we figure out what the timing is and all that kind of stuff, then we can actually get into treating the mom's dress and create a huge thing. This is proven technology. It isn't anything magical. I mean, it's just a. A little bitty bottle, just that much. It's only filled to here, and you mix it with water and you shake it up in this little bag and then you put the baby's wrap in there and you soak it and then you let it dry. And six months later, there's no mosquitoes.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: So, I mean, that's brand new too, by the way. That hasn't even come off the production line yet, so it's still just getting going.

Speaker A: I'm so excited for that one because where my family lives in Zambia, it is a very high malaria prone area. Like, my sister's had malaria like a number of times. Like to the point where every time she almost goes on a flight, it re. Re. Triggers, you know, and she gets sick. So. And, uh, that's a lot of people in their community. So, you know, they are in this situation where she can actually buy the medicine the moment, you know, she starts getting some symptoms, but not a lot of people can. So, you know, having something like that will make the world of a difference. For so many people there.

Speaker B: Excuse me. Well, they are vaccines and there are medicine to treat this, but the poor little baby doesn't have that. They're not there. And it's something like 6% of all the babies die of malaria, which is 6, 700,000 babies a year. And we can just take that right away. But even still, when you're that young, under 2 years old, and if you do get malaria, it does affect your cognitive skills for the rest of your life. So being able to tackle that early before, you know, they're still building their immune systems, they're so vulnerable. So it's just huge, just huge. And then we can do the adults. And this is something we've been doing. Every U.S. military, Canadian military soldier has this on their uniform. They have since 1983. So it's nothing new. It's just finding a different way to, to apply it. You don't have to go out and spray all that stuff. I mean, so there's a lot of misunderstandings about the product because it's been misused for so many years. Not in this application, but in other forms.

Speaker A: So yeah, I know there's a lot of the nets as well. So like some of the um, the nets that's also treated but then.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: That people then sometimes use as like fishing nets because you know, it's obviously a net that you can. And then that kind of, you know, pollutes the water. So it's like a uh, very nets.

Speaker B: The permethrin doesn't leave the nets. Just like you could swim in your shirt and it wouldn't come out. It's bound in just like the ink. But the difference is the net only works at night when you're in the net.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So this is taking the protection of the net with you all day long because mosquitoes are out at dawn and dusk, not just at night. So it's the same protection, but it's mobile. You don't, you don't go out wearing the net all day.

Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. Well, we're definitely going to stock up on your products whenever we do go and visit Zambia. I'm not sure when that will be.

Speaker B: We do a lot of work in Zambia. M, by the way.

Speaker A: Wow, that's great. I'll definitely let, let my sister know and be on the lookout for that as well. And Kurt, like, how do you kind of balance this, like creating long lasting products with like minimizing environmental impact and what role sustainability actually play in those decisions that you make today?

Speaker B: Well, huge obviously, because we talk about Low impact. I mean, we have to be one of the greenest products on the planet. I, um, mean, we just finished a study that showed we reduced the carbon footprint by 50%. So if you don't cut down. You ever see the an overview Picture of Haiti vs Dominican Republic? Half the islands dark green, the other's brown. Haiti, they've cut all the trees down. Just think about not having cut all the trees down. You lost your shade, you got flooding, you got landslides, lines, got all that stuff because you had to cut the trees to boil your water. Well, that's over. You don't need to do that now. So it's a huge, huge impact that way. And I remember early on somebody couldn't believe that it just keeps lasting for 20, 30 years because other filters won't, by the way, because they can't clean them. Um, so even if you bought another little point, these are called point of use because the water, the next thing after it goes through, you drink it, whatever. So it's the last, last treatment for the water. If their filters don't last 15, 20 years, you're just constantly replacing the plastic. So I mean, we have filters that are in their 16th year now, working every day. So we know how long it will last. You just keep cleaning it. So that's huge. I mean, we take away making plastic filters time again. I mean, millions of filters don't need to be made every year because ours last. So we have that and we have the forest thing. And also you get impact is typically people lose a third of their nutrients to parasites if they don't have clean water. Literally, the worms are in you and the parasites are in you. Typically, when we make an insulation, we'll clear the body of the parasites, we'll give them one parasite treatment. And then once you're on the water, you're not losing a third of your nutrients to little critters that are on the inside. I mean, so there we're, we're extending the food, uh, supply by a third. So that's sustainability. I mean, it's just, we give it sustainability.

Speaker A: It is something again, that is so, like, for me, that is so simple. It is so easy to comprehend doing that. And again, you know, there's, there's so many people out there that does not have access to this. So, uh, you know, I, I definitely hope that, you know, your products can get in hands of many more people that, you know, that impact can just multiply.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, we believe that once we get into the schools, churches, community centers where you Put these water stations. I mean, like I said, each filter can put out, you know, 2 to 400 gallons per day, every day. And what if you put five or six of them in there? I mean, they're less than $20 apiece. So now you're converting. Whole communities can come and get their water. And we have places where they do that. Well, pretty soon the middle class who have just, you know, I'm not going to go there every day. I'm going to go get myself one of these $20 filters and stick it on my faucet at home. So it'll, it'll kind of take a life of its own and multiply itself once we get these models in place. We just started that model with a charity called Child Hope. So we're doing 900 schools in Central and South America. And once we get that model going, I think that's the model that, that will sustain it all.

Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing. And it's so important. And Kurt, obviously, um, you know, creating Sawyer and all of the work that you have done, what has been one of like those hardest challenges that you faced in both, like building this business and having this mission driven organization.

Speaker B: We like to say we, uh, we lost money 23 of our first 25 years till we became an overnight success. So we, we really. I knew we'd make it. I, I had a very good training, good skill set in marketing, but it was tough. I mean, we would go out for months at a time and on the road and visit the stores, bring the kids with you, you know, whatever, you know, mix it together. But we knew we'd make it. But really it took off when the Internet influencers showed up because they had to talk about us because we were the best products. And every product we sell is the best product for its application are none worldwide. And we always say, interesting, you don't have to believe us. We just, uh, did a, asked all the chat things and all the AI things out there, who has the best products. And unanimously it came back Sawyer. So the influencers have been able to communicate to the people that we are the standard. But what. But until that, it was hard treading where you're going store by store by store, you know, and all that, but guerrilla marketing. But then once the influencers came in, boom, it took off because, you know, we are the best. They have to talk about us. Yeah, they have no credibility.

Speaker A: That's amazing. And like, kind of. What advice would you give any entrepreneurs who want to combine like, business success with real impact?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, We. You mentioned anything. I did write the book called Sawyer Think and Sawyer think is 25 different business principles to make your business better. All the things I've learned along the way, some of them are public stuff, so some of those things I've made up. So we want to make your business more profitable, but when it's profitable, why not? I mean, you can, you can. It doesn't have to be on the scale that we're doing. We're just so fortunate to be able to do that. But I don't care if it's local or regional or whatever. If we can increase your profits and show you how to be more profitable, why not put them to work? I mean, you know, there's, you know, what are you going to do with your money? You know, I mean, it's so rewarding, see? And people don't think about it because everybody has a skill set or you wouldn't have a successful business. How can those skill sets be used to better humanity? So I use a simple example of a restaurant. It isn't that you can give away your leftover food. It's the fact that you can buy at wholesale, but the people you're serving have to pay grocery store prices or convenience store prices. You have a big gap that you can share. Doesn't cost you anything. You're just buying it for, you know, 60 cents on the dollar and providing it to them. I, um, mean, you could do it logos, but. But you have extra profits, you can give it away. So it's the gap that's valuable, not the fact that you have leftovers or any, any skill. Name it. Whether you're an accountant, you can teach accounting, there's something called business as ministries where you can go and teach people overseas your skill set because you're making a living, which means you must have some value. What is that skill set and how can you share it?

Speaker A: That is so important. And I, um, am definitely going to link your book in our show notes as well so our crazy words can go and purchase your book and read it because, yeah, definitely those tips. It's, it's just something like, even for me, starting out now with my own pet company, trying to build a sustainable pet company, it's not easy. Like, there's so many things that you have to, like, weigh up and like, you know, budget comes in and we want to make the most sustainable pet product. And then you get like these prices. And I'm like, well, I can't afford that, but what can I do? And then the next time do better. And how do you have this where it's connected to, you know, giving stuff back and making sure, you know, we can actually help more communities as well with the work that we're doing.

Speaker B: Yeah. And we go into, uh, you know, the best way to lower your acquisition cost of new customers. You sell more things to the same people and how to approach buyers have a decision matrix so that we take the emotions onto the decision and you weigh all the things. And even if it's the same decision, you've looked at things that could trip you up later on, so you've already thought those through ahead of time and how to make decisions better and quicker. A lot of little tricks in there that, that hopefully would be helpful to your people.

Speaker A: Yeah. So how. How do you get people to buy more of your products? If your filters last 20 years, you'd

Speaker B: be surprised because we change colors. They want. I got a blue one, now I want a green one. No, there's different. We have three different size filters. So they have some. One filter is better for the short trips, one for the longer trips. I don't know why they need to buy so many, but they. Most people buy three of these things.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: I don't know why I didn't tell them to, but there's no shortage. Uh, remember we do insect repellents too, so those get used up.

Speaker A: Oh, that's true.

Speaker B: I've never worried about it. I mean, other people do. Planned obsolescence. It's just not my nature to do it, you know, to try and make you throw it away to buy a new one. I can't do that. Yeah, that's a waste of resources.

Speaker A: Exactly. That's exactly how I feel. So the next question is, what has been one of your most important, important decisions that you have made around Mama Earth?

Speaker B: Well, picking my wife doesn't count. That was a happens, uh, to be our 49th anniversary today. So that was.

Speaker A: Oh, happy anniversary.

Speaker B: Yeah. So we'll negotiate if she wants to re up for one more and put up with me. But, uh, again, the most difficult question, I said, well, you remember now we lost money 23 out of 25 years. Now, I always knew we'd make it, and I am a stubborn little cusp. But. But a lot of people would give up. But I had enough business skills. I knew how to keep the banks from circling. I've never, never not paid a bill. We're seasonal, so sometimes we have to jockey around here and there. But I always knew one principle in the book. It's very hard to find new customers. And so if we were a customer to somebody, they would do what they had to do to hang on to it. So there were some tough times. I had to take consulting jobs to feed the family and stuff like that. I always had a safety net. I knew I could probably go out and get a real job if I had to. But, uh, no, they were. You know, think about losing money 23 out of 25 years, you. You gotta be nuts to stay with it. But we are. Here we are.

Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing, because. Yeah, it is kind of. It's like what you said, you know, obviously, 23 years, and then, you know, all of a sudden you're an overnight success. And, um, no one sees that. 23 years where it's, like, so stressful and, you know, putting in the grind.

Speaker B: But I had enough business skills to know that we were going to make it. When you got good products, you're going to make it. You just got to keep grinding it out. So, yeah, they were. They were tough. And we raised four kids at the same time. That was. It was. I got a saint for a wife there.

Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing. It's really kind of who you have as your partner and your support system that can kind of drive you further.

Speaker B: So, yeah, and I always had great employees. I hire the best. I mean, who doesn't want to be part of what we're doing? So we have margins to pay well, but no, the whole team is so talented. I've moved back beyond. I don't understand the current marketplace. I just know we need to be. I know we need to be on TikTok. Had no idea how to do it, but I got people that do. So you surround yourself with all the talent and let them go.

Speaker A: Exactly. I love that. And, Kurt, we are now going to move into our, uh, final five. So it's the same five questions I ask every single guest, and you can just give me short answers. Are you ready?

Speaker B: Sorta.

Speaker A: First one is, what is one social media account or publication that you follow?

Speaker B: You won't believe this, but I don't follow any.

Speaker A: Oh, really? Not even a magazine or newspaper that you read regularly?

Speaker B: Well, I do read a lot. I read a lot of history because that's human. You know, marketing is the study of human behavior. So I've studied every civilization that's ever existed. You know, five. Five books a year for 40 years. You better have read a little bit about history. I'm. As a marketer, I'm fascinated by human behavior and how we choose we haven't changed anything. It's the same thing we were doing for centuries ago, just in a different format. So when you break that down, you understand marketing. So, yes, in that sense, I'm an absolute consume history.

Speaker A: I love that. And what is your hope for Mama Earth going forward?

Speaker B: I'm an optimist. I think we're fine. This, you know, obviously I'm into the. Creation is an incredibly regenerative thing. So, you know, I remember in the 1970s, which most people won't remember. I remember when the river caught on fire. Well, they're fishing in that river nowadays. So we can fix our previous problems. Um, so, you know, again, stuff like us cutting the need for food by a third because we get the parasites out of the body. I mean, there's so many ways we can help Mama Earth, if you will, but I think her regenerative skill ability is staggering, just staggering to recover from us.

Speaker A: And what advice can you give our crazy birds this week to actually help out Mama Earth?

Speaker B: Well, use more filter. Help us. Seriously, though, when you think about what we're doing overseas, and you know what, none of it comes to us because we give everything away. Any extra dollar that comes in is going to be given away. But think about reducing the carbon footprint by 50% across the developing world. I mean, that's staggering. Think about reducing the food supply they need by a third. You know, think about having healthy minds and people not being sick. So I, uh, you know, we're in the two biggest areas. Half the world dies of bad water, mosquito bites, and we have the solution to both of those. So just think about how we could change the world with what we have. So that's why our minds are blown. I mean, we have the two biggest problems that we can solve out there. Well, just come join us. You know, if you want to go on a trip, we got plenty of missionaries that'd be happy to take you. We're everywhere. So next time you go to Zambia, we'll hook you up with, uh, one of our charities there.

Speaker A: Oh, that sounds. That sounds amazing. And Kurt, what is one sustainability fact that you like to use in a room with people not yet on a sustainable journey?

Speaker B: That they want to be on their journey. They need to be a journey on anything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: My favorite phrase.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: My favorite phrase is why not? What's your excuse for not being there? Give me. Give me a reason why you're not on this journey. I bet you can't come up with a good one.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I'm going to Start using that one. And we'll definitely credit you and Sawyer for that one.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, it can get you in trouble sometimes when you're outside the box and you go, why not? And then. But we do it. So, I mean, just think of all the why nots we did. Yeah.

Speaker A: And keeping. Keeping going at it for that many years. And, you know, at some point, you know, you. You just gotta keep on going when no one. No one knows what to do at points. But, yeah, I definitely think that's even

Speaker B: where we are now. We're saying, okay, why not solve more problems? Why not get this out to more people? What's limiting you? And so the, uh, why not still applies today for us. Yeah. You already challenged me. You said, why not? Why not get the other 800 million people that don't have clean water? Why not? Why not?

Speaker A: I love that. And I mean, there's so many people here in, uh, the Middle east as well that still have these bottled waters coming to our house. And I'm like, can you imagine the carbon footprint of that? You're hauling down water and then the microplastics that comes in there. So

Speaker B: you got time for a quick story?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Christmas island, great fishing place. People travel all over the world to go there just to fish. They have a fishing village. They have no water there. There's no natural water. You can do rain catchment and stuff like that. So they would bring in each village. So just pick one of them. 35,000 bottled waters a year for the guest and the host at a dollar a piece. We just take the water that comes off the rain or whatever, put in one or two of these $20 filters. No need to buy 35,000 plastic bottles of water at a dollar apiece for a small village. And then because they don't have a way to get rid of them, they burn the plastic. Gone. Yeah. 20, 20, 30 bucks. And they're saving $35,000 a year plus not burning plastic and all that transportation with it. That's. That's the power of this little filter. 38,000 bottles a year do not need to be produced.

Speaker A: Wow, that is shocking. Like, um. Yeah, we definitely need to spread the word. And guys, if you're listening to this and you need a filter, go to the show notes and click on that. We're gonna link it all up. But, Kurt, where can people find you and Sawyer and also get a copy of your book?

Speaker B: Well, obviously Amazon. My electronic, I think, is like 6.95 or something like that. It's pretty cheap. We're in every camping. You'll find us anywhere camping goods are sold. Obviously. We're big on Amazon. We're huge on Amazon. We're one of their favorite products. They love this and give me Amazon credit. They have, they buy filters for disasters also. They're one of the first planes in at, uh, a disaster with our filters. So they have a disaster program where they use us. You can go to sawyer.com. you can always reach me. Just go through customer service or whatnot. We have the foundation, Sawyer Foundation. If anybody wants to join and wants to donate 100%, there's no overhead, 100% of any donation will go overseas. You can probably even pick which continent you want to be on, because we're on all of them. So anybody, um, wants to join the journey, come along.

Speaker A: Love that. Thank you so much, Kurt, for being on the podcast and just for all the work that you are doing. It really has such an impact and you know, I'm so grateful because, you know, obviously meeting some of these people that has been impacted by something as getting clean water is phenomenal. So thank you.

Speaker B: Well, we're having fun now, by the way. We just still have that urgency. I mean, it, it's a privilege, but it's also a responsibility because, you know, how do you not get these, as many of these out there as you can, so.

Speaker A: Exactly. I love that.

Speaker B: But I, I wouldn't trade it. This is the job that God gave me and we're, we're enjoying it and doing the best we can and I got a lot of good people. We're kind of having fun.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, you're doing an amazing job. And it's that ripple effect of the water, it's spreading all over the world. Thank you so much for being such an amazing guest, Kurt. And thank you all for listening to this episode of Mama Earth Talk. I hope you've really enjoyed Kurt's journey as his work has really inspired us to actually do more and also give back more. And yeah, it's just really inspiring how sometimes something as simple as water to us can really have such an impact on so many people's lives globally. So if you have enjoyed today's episode, please get a go on over and leave us a review on podchaser. Share this with a fellow Crazy Bird. Has this really helped our podcast to actually grow and to reach more people that can have more impact and also have like, more amazing world class guests that we can actually bring to you. So please, if you do enjoy the podcast, I really, you know, would love for you to do that. And I'm, um, always here. If you guys have any questions or. Or anything, please do feel free to reach out on our Instagram @mamaearth talk. And, yeah, just come and say hi. Or if there's a maybe a topic that you would like us to discuss next, please do reach out. And remember, Mama Earth has a voice, and it's us crazy birds. See you in the next one.