#632 Fear in the Housing Market Almost Always Signals Opportunity

When there's fear out there, that means there's better deals. I hate to say that, but that's just the way it goes. There's a 1% of wealth in this world for a reason, it's because they're not doing what everybody else is doing. They're doing the opposite.

AI is not gonna cut it, people. You gotta get into it. You've gotta go get wet. The number one, most important thing we look for at real wealth when we choose a market, and that is a market that has I am so excited today to interview one of my uh heroes in the real estate industry.

She is a woman that has left an imprint on thousands and thousands of investors' lives and has done so much to help real estate and real estate investors have an experience that's positive, successful, and building wealth. She's a co-founder of Real Wealth, an education company and a facilitator for, again, thousands of investors around the country, and also led multiple syndications under real wealth development. She is the host of the podcast, The Real Wealth Show, and also does a daily broadcast on real estate news for investors.

She's a big influence in the bigger pockets community. She's spoken on hundreds of stages. She's amazing. I'm so grateful that many of you get to hear from her today about what's going on currently in the real estate market and opportunities therein.

Well, Kathy, thanks for joining us. This is a real treat. My followers need this. I need this.

We've got to catch the the wave and get an update on the real estate market. I think there's so much misinformation about the opportunities that still lie in real estate. And I'm I'm not being facetious. But tell tell me your thoughts on that perception and what's reality.

Well, that's what we love to hear, honestly, because when when there's fear out there, that means there's better deals. And I I hate to say that, but that's just the way it goes. There's a 1%, there's a 10% of wealth in this world for a reason, is because they're not doing what everybody else is doing. They're doing the opposite of what everybody else is doing.

So if you want to really build wealth, you've got just got to stop listening to other people. You got to stop listening to headlines, you got to stop living in fear and look for opportunity. So that that's that's like my best answer for that. And when there's a lot of fear, there's even more opportunity, and that's what we're seeing in the housing market today.

Well, and I love watching your updates that you do daily, and you sometimes quote a headline that you just blow up. It it do you have anything recent that comes to your mind of a headline that was just drove you crazy? And you're like, no, that's not reality. Anything come to mind?

I just yeah, yeah, the the recent bill that was passed. You know, the recent bill that basically attacked institutional firms from buying property as rental uh that has been capped to if if they if a fund already owns 350 properties, they can't buy more. Although there are some, you know, if it's new, there's some caveats in there that people don't realize. Uh, but there was this, there's this hate for people, especially Wall Street that comes in and buys housing and they say, you know, keep Wall Street out of Main Street, basically.

Um, but what's not paid attention to in that is that people also rent. You know, what about the renters? Don't they have rights too? Uh and if it if a fund, I mean, we have single-family rental funds and we provide housing, affordable housing for people, why should we be banished by doing what is needed, which is affordable rental housing?

So, you know, the bill, it really is a political thing, in my opinion, because there were so many caveats. Like if you buy an older home, if these funds buy an older home, they um and and fix it, put it put a certain amount into it, they can still buy it, or if it's brand new from a builder. But the message was, you know, gosh, these dirty Wall Street guys and people who own housing. When in reality, here's the reality of it.

Over the past five years since COVID, the amount of rental housing compared to houses houses on the market has gone way down. If you look at the chart, it goes down. So it's not like we're flooded with rental housing. Uh, we have less of it.

And I think the reason is because prices went up so much over COVID. You could sell your rental property and make way more money and cash in than just keep it as a rental. So a lot of people sold, and we have a desperate need for rental housing. Uh, so it's really the opposite is true.

Like we should be trying to help the renters. They are the ones who are distressed today. And yet, you know, there's these bands on it. Do you think that the message was Wall Street stay out of real estate?

You're making it, you have an unfair advantage with your deep pockets for the average real estate investor or home buyer, even though there's a lot of caveats and workarounds. Do you think that will help, though, the real estate market? The real estate investors, like, oh, I want to get back in the action. I won't get outbid at a auction by a private equity fund.

Or it What do you think? So in 2012, that was a big problem. I I remember telling everybody I knew, like, get real estate, listen to me. But again, time of great fear.

I was even on Fox News with debating Robert Schiller. Robert Schiller of the of the of the K Schiller Index, you know, study that has all the data on housing. And I was on live TV debating him. He said it was a terrible and dangerous time to buy.

And I'm telling everybody, get out there and buy. We are at the bottom. And you are gonna get, you are gonna ride this wave up. I was, of course, right.

Uh San Francisco State versus Yale. I don't know how San Francisco State won that uh debate. Uh, but there was fear at the time. I was telling everybody, get out there and buy.

When they finally like tried, they were outbid every single time by a hedge fund. I get it. That was not cool. And um, you know, California eventually, and way too late, tried to come up with uh, and I think this would have been a great idea.

They should be able to buy what's left over, you know, like let the homeowner get a chance. But, you know, a seller also has rights, so they should be able to sell whoever they want to for the highest price they can. So, you know, it's always a balancing act there. But I did see a lot of friends get bit out, and that was sad to see.

Now, you fast forward to today, this is what people remember. It's etched in their memories. If they had to go up against a hedge fund, not fair. But they haven't really been doing that.

They've been really pivoted to build-to-rent communities. So a lot of the the hedge funds were actually solving a problem, providing more housing, more much needed rental housing in these build-to-rent communities. So, um, so I think again, it's just misinformation about what they were buying. There were certain cities uh where there were funds going in and still buying, I think Atlanta being one of them.

But in general, no, there wasn't there aren't auctions. You're like, this isn't a thing anymore. It was then, but banks learned. They like we don't want to sell stuff at a discount.

Banks learned that, hey, it's better if we hold it. They even started fixing their own properties and you know, selling them at a profit. They were like, why are we giving these things away? So you're not really seeing those auctions.

Of course, there are some, but people who own houses today, they're not in distress. So you're not seeing these like distress sales. There's always some. But when you look at the chart, it's it's at very low levels, very pre-pandemic, way below um below average levels right now.

So, you know, that's not gonna make a big dent. I'm not going to auctions and buying. The average person isn't doing that. They have to have all cash.

So it's really not going to affect the first-time buyer at all. Such a great point for you to bring up the the complexities of a bill like this. There's always the whereas and wherefores and and then also the misinformation that comes out. But setting all that aside, can I still get a good deal in real estate today?

You know, that this is what's so funny is you can always get a good deal. You could people look back at 2021 when, you know, you bought a house maybe a few years earlier and bam, some markets, I think you're in Arizona. There were some parts of Arizona that went up 40% in one year. So, you know, you thought you were a rock star, right?

If you had bought before that. But the the masses, remember the 80%, that's not the 20%. The 20% of wealth, the 10% of wealth, there's this massive group of people who don't have that and want to be. Those are the ones that go, whoa, prices just went to 40% in Arizona.

Arizona, now I'm gonna buy. You know, prices, you missed it. Like the wave already went. You know, you're not surfing that thing.

It's already gone. And and that, you know, they come in too late, they see what happened last year, they're following bad data or old data, like the like Robert Schiller. It's like, you're looking at old data. This is, I'm looking at the future, you know.

Yeah. So you well, you've you've said this so many times that don't invest based on the headlines, which is exactly what you're talking about. You're always gonna be late, you're gonna miss what really happened. Yeah.

But you talked about invest based on the property or the neighborhood or the area. Don't look at what's coming through the news cycle. Get into the numbers of the real acquisition. Can you explain like how that's yeah?

I mean, kind of to my point, what I was saying is people are uh super eager and courageous to invest when the timing's wrong, you know, when the prices have already gone up. There were 90 offers on one property in 2021 when the the values had peaked. And now you fast forward to today, where we've only seen the housing market hasn't crashed, but it's only gone up a few percentage points every year, which is still amazing that it hasn't crashed given given rates going up and the lack of affordability.

But like I said earlier, people who own housing today, they're either in super low rates or they did get to ride that wave. They have a ton of equity. The amount, the trillions of dollars of of equity sitting in homes today means homeowners are wealthy. So you're not gonna, you're, you're not gonna be able to go find somebody who's you know got desperate $200,000, $300,000 equity and try to get a deal, right?

It doesn't, it doesn't work that way. They're they're comfortable, their payments compared to their income are the lowest in history. So the real distress today is with renters finding something affordable for them. And can you create that?

You know, can and how do you, you know, how do you find affordable housing or create it so that you could solve that problem, which is again, renters, they don't, they can't afford to buy and they need a place to rent, but most of the things that are for rent are too expensive. If I may interject, that's why this new law coming out of the feds, you you're like, whatever, because your funds that you focused on in the last gosh, four to five years at least, but you're like, let's just build it.

Let's build affordable rental housing. The feds don't care. I'm not stealing a deal away from someone else. I'm going out and creating new value.

Um, where can you just tell us an example of one of the projects you're doing now, even? Yeah, I mean, that's what we've been doing at Real Wealth for over 25 years, because affordability uh isn't a new thing. It's it's been a problem for a while. So we've always focused.

Uh our our investment group, Real Wealth, helps um helps busy professionals invest in real estate passive, uh uh kind of passively or totally passively. Um, one is through turnkey real estate where you still own it, you still have to get the loan, you still need to manage your property manager, but we put all that in place for you. And then the other is through funds where you just invest with us and and we do all the work for you and you get your quarterly payments and so forth.

So there's, but our focus has always been for 25 years affordability. We want to find an area where there's great need for housing and it's just not it's not there for people. Um, and usually, so here's I'll I'll just start with the number one important, most important thing we look for at real wealth when we choose a market. And that is a market that has job growth, and that you see more and more jobs coming to that area.

Because one thing that's going to kill your deal or kill real estate over the long run, and that's what we're focused on, we're not flippers, we're not looking for another job. Uh, we are long-term buy and hold investors that this, this we want these properties to make us wealthy in 10 years. So that we, when we're ready to leave our jobs, we've, you know, we've made, we've had all these little golden gooses all over the country building wealth for us while we're working. That's what we're looking for.

So the number one most important thing is is getting in the right market, kind of like I said earlier. If I compare real estate and the way we invest to surfing, and I from California, I love to surf, one of the hardest parts about surfing is getting getting to the part of the wave that's gonna, you know, that's gonna peak. If you if you go too inside, it'll crash on you and you'll get eaten alive by that wave. Or if you go kind of too far out, you miss it.

But if you if you really know how to see, oh, here's where it's starting to build, it's starting to build, I'm gonna get right there and I'm just gonna have this beautiful ride. So that's what we do. We're looking for where's that buildup? And it's jobs.

People need jobs, and they're gonna move to where they can get employed, where they can see wage growth, and where they can afford to live. Uh, where they are, you know, if you look at San Francisco, there's job growth, but they can't afford to live. That's not gonna be a place where we're gonna invest. And also the landlord laws are terrible there.

So Texas has been one of those areas that it's a machine that just won't stop. That the parts of Texas that we're looking at at real wealth are just every it seems like every month we get a new headline of jobs that are moving there and leaving California, you know, and New York because of, you know, they're looking, these employers are looking for places where they're welcome, where their businesses are welcome, and where they can provide a better life for their employees. So that's our focus.

Where is the where are the jobs going? That means where are the people going? Where are they gonna see some wage growth so that they can afford our rents? And then we buy little houses all around there or build them.

I love that. And uh, I mean, Rip and Beth, they went from Montana down to Texas, and I mean they were semi-welcome, you know, they're building jobs on their ranch, but I'm a big fan. So um I haven't watched that part yet. I haven't seen the Texas part.

Again, you're right. I won't say anything again. Because we like Wyoming too. Yeah.

But um, to get very specific, so I like I want to summarize what you said and and dive a little deeper. So I love that you found some of the metrics or algorithm that, for lack of a better word, of where you want to be to get into that perfect spot on the wave. And I've surfed a little bit in my life, and I love it. We there's a surfing concept here too, that you've got to have paddle power.

You gotta be able to get into that spot on the wave because surfing is not for the lighthearted. You've got to be in shape. And I think with real estate investing, it's that same concept. You just can't go out on a Saturday and not regularly be surfing and think you're gonna catch that wave.

You gotta be, you gotta be out learning and practicing and staying in involved to the point you can make a wise decision of where how you turn or paddle. And I want to encourage everyone down in the description, we'll have links to Kathy's regular updates and education because at their group, who we've worked with for years, will help educate their clients because some may say, I I'm a I've got a real real estate professional status. I want to own my own property. And others are like, I don't have that status.

And I I want a great ROI, but I'd rather be in a fund that's a little more passive. And so peeling away the onion in Texas, you're doing both of those. Someone that might want to build and have direct ownership or be in a group. Yeah, we have a build-to-rent community in San Antonio.

That investment is closed to investors. Uh, we but we do have a single family rental fund also in North Dallas, where uh again, you just have to follow the important news, not the headlines, but like what's really where are the jobs going? And during the Biden administration, he passed the CHIP Act. And that was a huge amount of money that went to companies that would bring chip manufacturing back to the U.

S. There have spent a few areas. I know there's one in Arizona, and there's one just north of Dallas in a little town called Sherman, Texas. So as soon as we heard that news, I called my, you know, we have we've got teams all around the country, brokers around the country, property managers that kind of we've been working with like you for over, you know, 20 years with some of these people.

So I call our Dallas for you know property manager. Like, we've got to buy some property in Sherman because there's billions of dollars pouring into this area, new freeways, new schools, new everything. You know, when there's new jobs, one job, one job creates like five because all the people that moving there now, you know, you need your hairdresser and you need your barber and you need, you know, your groceries. And so it it just grows.

It does that way, that wave gets bigger and bigger. So we did. We put a fund together very quickly. And this was right when the market, the housing market froze.

This is right when the Fed said they were going to start raising rates and all the headlines were saying, oh, the housing is gonna crash. And I just, I don't even, I don't even listen. All I know is, oh my gosh, billions of dollars coming into this little town with not enough housing. Let's go.

And we we we were buying because the market was frozen and everybody was scared because of what they were hearing in the headlines, we had zero competition. This is literally a month after there was only competition. You couldn't even like to me, I don't even want to be in that 2021 hot market where you, you know, you can't even get inspections because there's like a hundred people who want the same property. No, I want to be in the market where there's no one.

So literally a month later, there's no one, we dive in. And we bought, we were buying stuff for $50,000 in this little town. It's worth $150 now, just a few years later. So there's always a good time.

There's always a good time. And I think it helps at real wealth because I've been doing this so long, 25 years. We have, like I said, these teams across the country that we trust, we've been working with, that our boots on the street, and they just like they tell us what's really going on. Same with COVID.

You know, there were these Black Knight came out and said there were going to be five million foreclosures in 2020. And, you know, everybody's freaking out. Again, the market just froze. Everybody's freaked out.

So I started doing daily webinars because I mean it was state, you know we had the stay-at-home stuff, right? So I'm home, might as well do something. So I did daily webinars with a property manager each day. One time, one day in Chicago, one day in Atlanta, one day in Dallas.

Like, tell me what's going on. You know, is the market falling apart? And they're like, we don't know what's going on, but we've literally got lines out the door of people who want property, they need a place to live. So our boots on the street information was telling us the truth.

The news, these huge organizations, black knight that studies mortgages, like, oh, there's going to be this housing crash. And we're like, we we don't see it. So our investors at Real Wealth dove in, bought in 2020, and of course made a ton of money a ton of money. And for my followers and listeners, uh, my clients listening, watching this today, what I'd love you to comment on that mindset that you're just referencing.

That if I'm in my local area and I'm seeing not a lot of opportunity, and if I buy a home, that I it's really difficult to flip it, and I can't cash flow it because I'm there it's too expensive. That that may be your little circle of life right there. Yeah, it doesn't mean that two states away, five states away, there's an opportunity. And I think people get really fearful.

Well, if I can't go drive by that every day, it's a bad, it's it's bad investor mindset. And I try to unwind that all the time and let people know how the smart people learn how to manage their property manager, not manage a property. And you just talked about calling your property managers that are boots on ground. Could you talk to that a little bit about that shift of not worrying about it being around the corner and that it's okay if it's a little further away?

Yeah, I mean, that is so old school. That's how that was the mentality 25 years ago uh when you didn't have Google Maps, I guess. You know, you didn't have the internet. I'm sure it it was probably a lot scarier then.

But we do help people uh overcome that fear by doing property tours. Like, I want you to come out and see it. It's foreign. Of course, of course it's scary.

We're always afraid of things we don't know or understand. But when you go and see it and learn it and understand it, it's not scary anymore. So we do these tours, we we show people, you know, it's not that different. And the fact of the matter is, uh let me ask you, like, Mark, can I become an attorney tomorrow?

Like, can I? I I want to. I would like to start doing legal work for people tomorrow. Yeah, you're gonna like no, absolutely not.

So then why is an accountant or a business, a contractor, or like well, a contractor maybe they would understand, but you know, somebody who runs their business, somebody who is a CPA. Why They think you can just go out and do real estate tomorrow. You know, like I can't go out and be a CPA tomorrow. So you you've got to get the right people in place.

And even if you bought the house next door, but you're a busy CPA, you're gonna screw up that property because you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, but I I I watched HGTV and I what I stayed a holiday and on a regular basis. So like there's what is it, the hundred ten thousand hour rule that until you're an expert. So until you're an expert, rely on experts because you're going to mess it up.

And that is that is the biggest mistake people make is I need it to be close. I need to see it. Well, you know, you're gonna mess it up. Get out of it.

Get get professionals who understand this stuff, especially if you're investing uh in in real estate and don't understand landlord laws or construction. You are gonna create yourself a nightmare. There's there's two uh businesses. There's a lot of businesses with real estate, but the two I want to explain is there's the active business and there's the passive.

Of course, you probably talk about this all the time. And people just get this confused all the time because they watch HGTV. They're like, I want to flip a house and make all this money. Now you've become active.

That's a business. You already have a business, you're already busy, you have a job. Um, unless you don't have a job, then sure, go get your 10,000 hours learning how to be a flipper. But you're gonna make mistakes along the way and probably lose money because you're not an expert yet.

Uh, but then there's the passive, which means you're investing. And when you invest, you need to invest in somebody who knows what they're doing, right? And has the experience, has the 10,000 hours. So that's what we find with property managers.

We're not gonna find a property manager that's put up the flag overnight and, you know, doesn't know anything about real estate. These are people who've been doing this for years. They know the laws, they've got the list of uh, you know, they've got their marketing out there, they're able to attract the right people, they know how to vet. Yeah, try try putting your first tenant in by yourself and see what happens.

It's really hard. You want an expert doing that. Yeah, it's crazy. And I again, we got to do a whole show just on surfing because again, the analogies are incredible.

For those that have gotten out, gone out and wave and gotten pummeled. Yeah, uh, you if you really want to get good at surfing, you go hang out with surfers, you go catch the little waves and surf with others that have a lot of hours doing it. They'll block for you, give you a push, whatever. And maybe you won't catch a big wave initially, but you'll work up to that.

And catching little waves is still fun. And it's like the real estate. You don't have to hit a home run every time you do a real estate deal. Just catch a little wave, catch a little wave.

As you get better and better and surf, surf and work with others that know what they're doing. When that big wave comes along, maybe you'll be in the right spot. And I love that you said that because my daughter Krista, who you know very well, um, yeah, she always wanted to look cool when she was at San Diego State. She got a short board.

And um, you know, she could never get up on it because it's a shortboard, and you gotta work your way up to that. But you know, so she'd just sit out there on the board and look cute, and I guess that was enough. Yeah, yeah. But I on Monday, literally on Monday, I'm like, girl, we're going out.

And I I hired a coach and we went out. He brought a law, a proper board for her. She's very tall, she shouldn't be on a shortboard. And she caught so many waves, and they were big waves.

So many, one after the other, one after the other, one after the other. So yeah, having having that expert there beside you to give you the right instruction, make sure you're, you know, she was like, Mom, all this time I didn't know you're supposed to pop up right at the you know, all the like, yes, all that time you've been wasting doing it wrong. Um, you know, then someday you could work up to be Kathy Fecke, who's who's like soul surfer. She goes out there and just touches the water and she's like, Okay, I know where the wave's coming.

See, and that's like real estate. Kathy's like, I know where it's coming. Because I go to one break and I know the break, and I I'm the only lady, I'm the only female, it's all these dudes, and I know I I could surf right around them because I know the break. And that also it's a parallel in real estate.

Like, don't don't even if you've learned a certain kind of real estate, you tried it a different kind, you you might fail because you know you don't know it as well. So, and that's what I was saying about the the passive versus active. People think, I'm gonna go flip a house. That is active.

You're doing stuff, you're creating active income versus buying a rental. This is that's what we focus on as the long-term wealth. Buy a rental, let somebody else pay off your debt for you. The government gives you tax benefits for providing this housing.

And I mean, there's and then the market, if you're in the right market, you'll see appreciation too. And I trust me, in 10 years, if you buy a good quality property in a good area that's growing, you're going to make money. You're going to make a lot of money. You will outperform Wall Street two to three X every time.

And it's proven uh instead of trying to go hit a home run and getting pummeled and just getting chewed up by and getting stuck inside those waves. And man, this is like a surf session. I mean, like we're this is surfing instruction one-on-one. No, this is so good.

Um, well, I love that your your surf break is Texas. You know, Texas backwards and forwards, you can scoot around there really quickly, catch the right little waves here and there. I just, there's so many parallels. This is neat.

Um well, Kathy, how can what I again I said I'd have some of your information in the description, but what are just do you want to mention what you would recommend a new someone new to real wealth, um, where they should start to tap into some of your resources? Yeah, I mean, education is everything, and I know people are so busy. They're so busy, it's like hard to even read a book these days. But if you have time, just read my I actually have had teenagers say they've read my book in in an afternoon.

It's sit by, you know, just take a few moments, maybe read one chapter a day of retire rich with rentals. That will give you a lot of information. Retire rich AI is not gonna cut it, people. You can't get a one-page summary and think you're gonna absorb it.

You got to get into it, you gotta go get wet, you gotta go hit the hit the waves, you gotta get out there with your board, you gotta read the book, and then pay attention to your your updates, I think, are just great too. Teaching people what to see. Yeah, we we do um webinars every Thursday. We highlight different markets, you'll start to get to know these different markets.

We'll show you what to look for in a property, and especially most important, understanding what is your what is your goal before you even read any books. Talk to Mark. Like, what is your goal? What are you trying to create?

Because people get that wrong all the time. And then it's kind of like Rich has a great um uh part in his book. We wrote a book together called Scaling Smart, and he talks about this type when he was little, and his brother would always swim out to this island, and he was like, I'm gonna do it. I'm I'm big enough.

And so he gets to the water and he just starts swimming, but he never looks up and he's like ends up like zigzagging all around, never makes it to the island. Uh so often that's what we do. We're just like, oh, so-and-so just made this money here. I'm gonna do that.

Oh, so and so I'm gonna do that. Oh, it like where are you going? What are you trying to do? For me, it's always been clear like I want to retire on this day, and retire meaning I want to be financially free.

I'm never gonna retire. I I love what I do, but to, you know, to have enough income to cover my expenses so I don't have to work, uh, you know, I'm gonna do that on this day, and so now I got to work backwards. What do I need to do to get there? So for me, it was always a long-term plan.

For other people, it's like, hey, I don't have a job. I need a job, so I'm gonna go flip houses. Great. You could you could make your fast money that way, you could make the money you live on that way.

But then you still need to take, I've all the flippers I talk to tell me, gosh darn it, why didn't I follow Kathy's plan, the real wealth plan, and take a portion of that of my earnings from flipping houses and invest long-term buy and hold? Because they sell these houses and they look at us and I didn't fix anything and I made more money. Yeah, no, I just sat on it. Yes, totally.

And having that plan in advance of where you're gonna, where you're gonna go, where you're gonna paddle to. And I think it's really a combination as we're doing, because you have a trifecta, I know you do, and and I love that. And I love your we're real wealth coaches. I've talked to them before that are like, okay, let's dial in on your real estate goals inside of your overall trifecta of income and assets and legacy.

And so I would encourage everyone there, you can have an initial discovery call with one of your coaches to create that real estate plan. And I think that's a really smart thing to do too. So and that's free to do. Uh and joining real wealth is free.

Uh there's no catch. We are a brokerage, we receive referral fees from our um broke from the broker. If you buy a property in Dallas, we get a part of their broker fee. So you there's no fee, we just get paid on the back end to the broker, a fee that you'd be paying anyway.

Um, so yeah, realwealth.com. And then you can have you can speak with one of our investment counselors. They all are very, very experienced investors.

These aren't just kids we pulled off the street. They know what they're doing. They do. It's so good.

Well, Kathy, thanks for spending time with me today. I appreciate it. And good luck uh out on the waves and on uh the real estate markets that you're surfing. So I just think you're doing such a great job.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Well, thanks everybody for joining me for another episode of the Main Street Business Podcast.

Wow. Tons of great information. I encourage you to take action. Check out the description below.

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