EP 25 | Finding Strength in Adversity with Nick Economos and Daniel Levin

Speaker A: Welcome to livebyte, the Laventus podcast and your go to source for everything, custom software development, tech trends, and occasionally we veer off into other topics like entrepreneurial journeys, which is one of my favorite topics to dive into and the theme of today. So I'm your host, Dan Levin, and in today's episode we're thrilled to welcome one of my good friends and fellow entrepreneurs, Nick Economos. Nick, he's an entrepreneur, he's a financial planner, he's a family man, and he's a skier. So much so in this episode, Nick and I talk about his inspiring journey, uh, overcoming adversity to all sorts of lessons learned and even advice about, uh, money and the importance of fiduciary financial planning. So get ready for some fun entrepreneurial discussions and uh, and hopefully some inspirational conversation.

Speaker B: All right, so I'm here with my buddy Nick Economos, um, fellow entrepreneur and uh, have a lot of things in common. But Nick, thanks for joining me.

Speaker C: Hey, great to be here, Dan.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, we know each other through E.O. hunt, the entrepreneur organization. Um, I think it changed my life quite a bit. What would you say it's done for you? How has it changed your life?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's really, uh, you know, it's a volunteer organization and I wasn't really sure what to expect. Uh, so when I joined I, I, I was really looking for some experience shares around some issues I was having in my business at the time. And what I, what I didn't know that I didn't know at that time, you know, I just figured it was mainly like a business focused organization. But it's really challenged me to think more uh, about my whole life, uh, me as a, as an individual and my relationship, I guess with myself, um, my relationships with my, with my family members and uh, so kind of like that business, that personal and that family trifecta, you know, it's really helped me to grow as an individual and grow as a spouse and a father to my children. And I think that that's been just as valuable as some of the insights and experience shares that I've gotten through other members regarding my business.

Speaker B: I completely agree. Like people, people go to it for business and it ends up being like a family and personal value just as much, uh, business, which they all kind of go in and you want to do, you want to do well at one, you gotta kind of do well enough, but the others now kind of sell that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I agree 100%. I mean, I, we, you know, we talked a lot about like health and um, you know, how that, that's you know, kind of a primary driver of your ability to bring your best self to your business, to your relationships and uh, you know, so there's just so much more there than just just the, the business learning and, and, and sharing and.

Speaker B: Awesome.

Speaker C: It's been really good for me.

Speaker B: So why don't you tell uh, our audience here what you do? Sure. You can tell.

Speaker C: You can tell more than I. Yeah, I probably could. I. I've been doing it for a while. So. Um. Yeah. So I'm the managing, uh, principal and chief retirement officer at a company called Fiduciary Financial Partners. And we are a retirement focused financial planning and investment management firm. We're headquartered out in Naperville, Illinois and we're a little boutique firm. Um, you know, work with a certain profile client and uh, we're able to deliver, you know, high level of service and expertise to those folks. So um, our clients are you know, typically um, either business owners, executives at companies or professionals. M. Some of them are retired currently, some of them are looking to retire. And then we also work with um, with kind of in a B2B type of service. Um, you know our, our role is to kind of be the chief retirement officer for organizations. So helping them to run best practices around um, their, their retirement plans or company sponsored retirement plans, pensions, profit sharing plans, 401ks. So that's kind of what we do. I've got a really good team of people that is focused on um, you know, really serving our clients first. And so it's just a, it's a joy to come to work every day. Um, when you're surrounded right by people like that that really um, I think they get more satisfaction out of the, the relationships and, and the, you know, the work that they're able to do. You know, when a client tells them good job or you've really done, you know, you've really helped me. Um, and we really value the work that you've done for us. I think that really drives uh, a lot of satisfaction uh, for the team members of my firm. So it's really, it's really a good group and kind of blessed every day to get up and go to work

Speaker B: with the, with that. And it's something I know you're passionate about. I mean you're passionate about a lot of things. You know, from that standpoint, educating companies, business owners on um, like behavioral finance or just finance in general. What, I mean, what would you say is, is a common misconception among People or, or entrepreneurs, business owners that, uh, you run into that you got to help them overcome. Um.

Speaker C: Um, well, there's a lot there. I mean, we could spend a whole day on that probably. But, you know, I, I think biggest thing that I see is that, um, our clients are really bright and successful people, and they're super busy and they have a, um, business life, they have a, you know, so. So sort of a professional life, they have a family life, uh, they have interests that they're, um, you know, you know, want to pursue. And, um, like, you can't really do it all, and you have to kind of pick your spots of where you're going to specialize and how you're going to delegate your time or how you're going to use your time. And so I think that that's where, you know, we come in and are a good fit for our clients. I think the biggest thing that I see with people and talk to people about is at the end of the day, money's really just a tool. It's really not important to people. Um, when you talk to people about their core values, you say it's not important to. It's important in the. In the. In the sense that it. It can help you accomplish certain things, um, that are usually more important to you than money. Um, you know, the things that I hear people say are really important to them are things like security and freedom, providing for family members. It's really not about, you know, when you. When you start having values conversations with people and you get deep into. Into what's really, you know, their core and what's. What's motivating them. It's. It's really money. And, and if it really just money, that's probably not a good fit for what we do. Um, you know, culturally, like, we're really more focused on. I think that, you know, helping our clients really achieve some of the bigger things in life that. That, you know, may require money but are more important. So, you know, that's. That's. That's what I mean by that. Um, you know, when I have values conversations with clients, you know, usually what I'm hearing is, is those things that I said, and money can help in that area. You know, it might be helping others, um, you know, providing, you know, um, certain organizations that they have a charitable interest in or, um, providing security for family members, or there might be some financial goals that they have that require specific resources. But ultimately, like, no one's saying money is, like, ultimately important to me. And, you know, I think Reason behind it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: There's a reason behind it. It's just a tool, really. It's only a tool. And money, um, can't buy happiness. Um, you know, I'm really big on this concept of, like, living life on purpose. Um, I had, uh, an event when I was 40 and had some really young children at the time. I had cancer. I was diagnosed with cancer. And it really caused me to focus on what's most important in my life. And it really brought home the reality that future may never come. The future's a weird thing, Dan. It's, it's. It's this arbitrary thing. It's almost like a mirage. I mean, we're, we're living our lives constantly in the present. And so, like, the future really never arrives. So you've got to enjoy your life today and the fruits of your labor and make sure that you're focusing your time and your energy and your resources on the things that matter most to you. Uh, because none of us have. There's no guarantees in life in terms of how much time we have. So it's really trying to obviously build security and build, um, that freedom, but also living today and enjoying today and being focused and present on what's most important. So, um, I, you know, it's. It's funny, like our back, um, you know, back in the day, there were only a handful of TV channels and, um, with the proliferate.

Speaker B: Donate yourself, be careful.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know. I'm an old. I'm an old bogey. I'm glitting there. So, um, Yeah, I turned 53 this year, so. But, you know, back in the day, there just wasn't all this overload of information. And now we have a whole financial entertainment industry. The CNBCs, the Jim Cramers, all of that stuff is. It's just a bunch of information and noise. And it, it really isn't anything that's really important to us or that we can really, you know, act on. I mean, they're, they're, you know, the information that's being spewed 247 is just impossible to. To use that. So, um, you know, the economy, the markets, you know, and the direction of the markets, in the short run, none of that is in our control. And so I think our time and our effort is better spent on focusing on the things that are in our control and focusing on the things that are most important to us. Otherwise we get lost in just pursuing something that's really meaningless. And, and that's. That could be money. I mean, money's not a bad thing. And, and having a lot of money is, is, is, can be a great thing. It's, it can also be a burden, uh, as well to people. So, um, you know, it's, it's just a tool is the way that I look at it. And I think it's more important to really focus on creating that life. I always talk about, like, we have this blank canvas and of life and we can try to paint the picture that we really want. And so how does that look? And making sure that your portrait or your picture of life is what you want. And it's, you know, you're never going to be perfect at it. You know, you're going to ebb and flow. Um, but life is, is constantly changing. It's always going to be uncertain. And, um, you know, so I think it's, you know, being present, being focused on the things that are most important to you. I really think there's a lot of different forms of wealth. Right. Um, you know, think about Steve Jobs at the end of the happiest people in the world.

Speaker B: It's like, don't monitor times, you know?

Speaker C: Yeah. Ah. I mean, it, it, it. We, we can get confused by it sometimes. Like we're pursuing it, especially in today's environment, you know, with like the advent of social media. I mean, we're always, you know, comparing ourselves. Everyone's putting their best foot forward on social media. And then, and, you know, I always, you know, one of my, my business partner, Mia Kaya, he always says, you know, comparison is the joy. And, you know, you're not going to find happiness in, in dollar bills. Just not. I mean, it can certainly help, um, you know, solve some problems, but, uh, that's really not what's going to give your life meaning. Not going to help you feel, you know, intense.

Speaker B: You know, a lot of this philosophy and I align on a lot of stuff and this is certainly one of them. We geek out a lot about watching the same science shows and the Neil DeGrasse Tyson or whatever, like a space video that you've seen, I've seen and vice versa.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, you think you attribute some of your outlook, some of this outlook, that you have to do some of that. Right. To kind of just the. I guess being a lot more philosophical about it versus transactional. Right.

Speaker C: I know there's not a whole lot of meaning in transactions, you know, so that's what I'm saying.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: But yeah, I mean, I, I guess

Speaker B: where is the source of some of your. I don't know. I Think it's.

Speaker C: I don't know. Maybe it's part of my upbringing. So maybe I owe part of that to, um, to my family and my extended family and what I grew up. The environment I grew up in. But a lot of it's just like watching other people and experiences, um, that I've had personally. The philosophical question, like, I don't know if I shared that one. That one video, um, of, like, it shows like, our sun in our solar system.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: And then it kind of like expands out into, like, stars really are. Yeah. I mean, we're just. We're just so insignificant. And like, the time that we're here. What's that?

Speaker B: I said, speak for yourself. Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, well, you know, I feel sort of. You look at. You think about that, and it's just. It's mindboggling. But I feel like we're here for such a short period of time and, um, you know, I don't know. Personally, I just want to have. Make sure that I've. I've created a meaningful life. And so I think some of that insignificance. I was. I was brought up in, um, in the Greek Orthodox Church, which is the, you know, Christian faith. And I would say, in summary, like, it's kind of this great mystery. And I don't know if I'm like, um, best. The most devout Orthodox Christian, but the, um. You know, it is a great mystery. Life's a great mystery. And I think that we're all seeking some form of meaning. And ultimately, I think people want to be content. And, uh. And so, you know, I don't know. That's kind of where I've arrived. It's probably a mix of things to answer your question.

Speaker B: I'm sure it is. Yeah. Um, I love the deep philosophical piece of this. Um, I got a lot of questions around in my head. Um, I wanted to get one out of the way. So I. You know. Your first job. Paperboy, right? Yeah. I think of a paper boy as that Nintendo game, right. Where you're, you know, trying to break windows on cars.

Speaker C: Trying to break windows. I don't think I want that good of an arm back then.

Speaker B: Um. But, you know, what. What was that job like? You got to have a good story in there somewhere about something, Right. Collecting order from someone that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you what, I hated the job, to be frank. And, um, the. The, uh.

Speaker B: Describe what the job was. Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, I would. I would. They would literally, like, drop off paper, a stack of newspapers and kind Of a bound stack. And then I would take those and I'd have to stop the inserts in, fold them up, put them in bags, and then I would hop on my BMX bike and. And I got a front, and I'd ride around the neighborhood, and I, you know, I deliver the papers, and then I'd have to go and collect. Um, you know, um, I have to go collect the payments for the papers once a month. And so I would deliver the paper, the tribute. I was delivering the Tribune. And then, you know, I'd have to go door to door and then collect. Collect the payments. You know, that's kind of how it was. It was at the time. There wasn't like an Internet back then. So, uh, so it was getting up really early. It was always dark outside. And, um, you know, it was just, uh, you know, some bad weather here and there. I live in Illinois, you know, the weather's not the greatest here most of the time, I guess, but, uh, it was.

Speaker B: It was.

Speaker C: It was tough. I mean, it was a struggle, especially going up to people and trying to collect money. And then the lessons you learned from that, as I look back on, I'm like, wow, what a great experience. Um, you know, hey, I don't have any money on me, kid. Come back later or I'm busy. Come back later. You know, so it's. It's, you know, you're just having to be persistent, and there's a lot. There's some rejection there. And, um, you know, getting up when you don't want to get up, um, when none of your friends are up, and, uh, getting out there and in bad weather and conditions that maybe you don't want to deal with, and you're doing the deal to try to, you know, make a buck. And my whole motivation back then was I wanted a new BMX bike. Um, that was kind of the motivation. And so I just figured I needed to get a job. And at the time, I mean, there weren't a whole lot of jobs for little kids my age, so.

Speaker B: But what a great first job. I mean, think about all the things that gave you. I mean, it gave you the discipline. Right. Waking up, doing things that, you know, you didn't necessarily want to do. Yeah.

Speaker C: And being uncomfortable. Going to talk to adults. Comfortable. And talking about looking for money, you know, and, uh, huge.

Speaker B: And dealing with rejection.

Speaker C: And rejection. All that stuff is great. How old were you? Oh, uh, gosh, I was. I was like, in seventh grade, maybe sixth. Sixth grade, seventh grade. Um, when I started. So what was I 10, 11, 12, something like that. Uh, you know.

Speaker B: So how big of an impact do you think it had on your entrepreneurial?

Speaker C: I mean, I, I think looking back, those experiences were, were certainly like formidable. I mean you're, you're basically getting kind of real world experience in just like your neighborhood, little paper route. So, um, you know, I was able to make money and save money and then, um, you know, I built a custom BMX bike and, and was able to recognize the reward for the hard work, which felt gratifying. Um, I was able to save a month, save money too, which helped as I, you know, later on got into uh, like eighth grade. We had a stock market club at school. I mean, how crazy is that? And, and that was, you know, I don't know what I mean.

Speaker B: When you were in eighth grade, how would you, what was it? Were you actually trading stocks or. There was like, you were.

Speaker C: We would have to research companies and then invest comp. In a company and then, and then we would track the results. And uh, it was really kind of

Speaker B: fake investment, like pretend investment.

Speaker C: A pretend investment? Yep. We had to do the research and um, and it was, it was kind of cool. I mean most of the research we were doing was through, you know, paper versions. Like, like value line was a, um, was this big binder in the library at school. And so you'd have to, you know, kind of dig into that. Um, um, it was an interesting time. I mean it was uh, right when Beatrice Foods was going through the largest leveraged buyout at the time. So you know, I, I, I got into, you know, it was just, I found it interesting what was going on, um, from that respect. And uh, it was really like my, my dad's dad lived in Berwyn, Illinois. And so if you saw some of Irwin. But um, the uh, I would go and have lunch with him and uh, um, you know, he would just be hanging out in the kitchen. And they lived in a bungalow, like one of those shotgun style bungalows in Berwin. And um, you know, we'd be watching TV and he, at noon there was this like local stock market show that would come on and it was just a bunch of stockbrokers. It was like three stock brokers and a moderator from Chicago. And it was so, and they had a ticker tape running down across the bottom. And you would see, T would go across and I'd be like, hey, what's, what does T mean? And he'd be like, well that's at. And T. You know. And so he kind of started teaching you know, about the stock market and, like, what a stock is and what it means and how do you buy them. And, um. And so that. That kind of, like, piqued my interest, and that's what, like, led me to join the stock market club. And then, you know, as I progressed, um, you know, my dad was super, um. You know, was super, you know, I guess, supportive. He, uh, he subscribed to, um, a newspaper back then. It was called, um, Investors Business Daily, uh, which was, like, published by this guy, William, uh, o'. Neal. And when you sent in for the subscription, like, when you're a new subscriber, you would get, um, William o' Neill's book on, like, how to. How to pick stocks. Basically, it was this hand slim formula. It was an. An acronym that stood for current annual earnings and growth rate and, like, all this stuff. And so I just. I read that, and then, um, as I kind of. This was like, in freshman year of high school, um, you know, we had study hall in high school, and I would, uh, I'd be in the library, just, like, reading through Value Line and Morningstar and just looking at companies. I don't know what. I don't know why I was interested in it. Selling truth. I just think I thought it was cool, like, you could make money off your money. Um, you know, and I. I kind of. You know, my parents always used to say, like, I would go to a restaurant, and I would, like, look for the most expensive thing on a menu, and I would order it. You know, so maybe I. I had expensive.

Speaker B: You needed to do something.

Speaker C: What's that?

Speaker B: You said you. Then you needed to do something.

Speaker C: I needed to do something. You know, so, uh, they always said I would finish the meal, so they were good with it. Uh, um. But, uh, yeah, so I don't know if that was part of it. And I just started researching stocks, and, uh, I. I think the first company I purchased was, uh, PepsiCo. That was like 19. I don't know, maybe 1987. And, uh, I had saved up, like, I'd get a birthday check from. From my. From my grandparents or somebody, and. And, uh, had money from, like, my christening and all that stuff. I just kind of took it all out, cashed out all the savings bonds, um, took. Took all the cash, and I bought, um, some shares of PepsiCo. And. And then, um, that, like, split and went up in value. I think it was, like, a $3,300 investment. And it turned in, like, 8,300 bucks, and I sold off enough to buy a Hundred shares of Microsoft in 1989.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker C: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and it was, you know, it was lucky. I got lucky, you know, like I, I did research and stuff like that, but I just happened to pick a good company. I was kind of, you know, my dad was kind of into computers and so, I don't know, I just, just because thought it would be part of probably a good investment. You know, it kind of met all the criteria of the can slim formula. So I, I bought a hundred shares of that. It was like 4400 bucks. And that, uh, that turned into like 9000 shares by the end of the 2000s. Um, so it was, it was pretty crazy. It was really, really lucky. And then I bought, uh, there was this before, it was cnbc. It was like the Financial News Network. And I think, I think CNBC consolidated a couple of different financial networks, but they used to have this show, um, that would come on the weekends. It was like late on a Friday night and I think I, um, I think had a football game and, but after a football game, usually I was smoked. So I, um, I went home and it was like probably 11 o' clock at night when the show came on and uh, we were watching and uh, it was the show called the American Entrepreneur. And the um, the guy that they were interviewing at that particular night was uh, Michael Dell. And he was uh, super young. He was probably like 21, 22 at the time. And he was selling computers mail order. He was in college and started a mail order catalog of selling, uh, computers. And I thought that was a pretty cool thing. And so I, I, I sold the rest of the Pepsi and I bought some Dell, um, and that turned out

Speaker B: to be a problem. Pretty good decisions you made back.

Speaker C: Pretty good decision, yeah. And in hindsight, you know, looking back on it, it was probably more luck than skill. But um, you know, I think you

Speaker B: make your own luck.

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I, I, I guess so. You gotta take some risks, right? And uh, um, you know, those are probably good risks to take. But uh, yeah, so it kind of, you know, that, that kind of piqued my interest, you know. And uh, and it was just kind of strange. Like, I don't know what got me into that. It just was kind of that, that story that I just explained. I think it was just something I was interested in. And of course when you're winning, you know, like when you're, when you're, when you're, when you, what you're, you're investing in is going up pretty rapidly, like then it it certainly catches your eye and makes you a little bit more interested. But uh, um, it really didn't start kicking. Um, you know, I really didn't start seeing the returns until I, I was in college and you know, I thought I wanted to get like a business degree or finance degree and then be like a stockbroker. And um, so I, I went into the business school at Purdue and then I quickly, uh, within a few weeks of being on campus, I met m somebody that was in this financial planning program. They had this financial counseling and planning program. And I started learning about that and I was like, wow, this is really cool. Um, because when I was in high school, I started learning about IRAs, tax deferral and you know, time value of money and compounding. And so when I saw what the program was for financial counseling and planning m, it was like, the classes were awesome. Investments and estate planning and tax planning. So yeah, so I just kind of, kind of went with it. And uh, you know, my, uh, the university, like as you got into the higher level courses, you started doing real financial planning. Back then we had some software, but most of it was like handwritten. So you were, you know, banging out the calculations on your calculator, your, your hp and you know, we started doing work. We ran a kind of a clinic for underprivileged people in the community, which is mainly debt counseling and things like that. And then we also did, um, you know, a little bit more advanced planning for professors on campus, um, around retirement planning. And it was really cool, um, experience. And uh, yeah, I just kind of ran with it and you know, I kind of hung up my shingle right after um, college. And you know, when you're 20 something, you don't really know a whole lot of people that are thinking about financial planning. And so it was pretty lean for a while, was building the business. I was trying to do planning work for people my age. That's who I really knew. I don't think. I didn't have the confidence to, you know, seek a higher market. And I don't think they perceived, you know, a young guy, um, you know, 20 something year old having anything to, you know, add value about. You know, there was no track record or anything like that. So um, there's a lot of lean years getting started. But um, you know, I, I, I learned a ton and it was, you know, I just consumed all the information I could. So it was really, really cool from that respect. So um, you know, I wouldn't, I would do it differently now, but I wouldn't trade what I, what the way that I got into the career and the way that I struggled for a long time really to uh, to build a business. And um, because, you know, people that I see have that struggle don't have the experience, you know, so it's pretty, pretty interesting from that respect.

Speaker B: Well, I mean, what would you say? Sorry, now I'm getting distracted by buzzing on my computer. But I, I've talked to you several times, obviously, and I know how intelligent you are when it comes to, you know, uh, all the different, you know, all the different things that can go into managing money or setting up just your positions. Right. Um, how does a fiduciary differ from the money? Right, so. And this is for everybody's benefit, right? So there's money managers and there's financial planners and there's what you do, which is, I think on a different level.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, look, there is a low bar. Um, you know, and traditionally my industry was a sales career. Um, you know, went to um, a big bank or you went to like a big investment house and you were selling either stocks early on and then or mutual funds or life insurance products. And that kind of morphed a little bit, but it was still primarily a focus on selling financial products. Um, fiduciary is a, it comes out of like old English trust law. And put it simply, like a fiduciary is charged with putting the interests of, um, somebody else ahead of their own. And um, there's a lot of people in my industry that serve in a fiduciary capacity and do a great job of it. Um, but, but the titles in my industry are wealth manager or financial advisor. Um, you know those, those are just words and they don't really mean anything without the proper application of um, you know, the, the knowledge of really, you know, the integrated knowledge of, you know, tax and estate insurance and cash flow planning and debt management. You know, all of that stuff. Our financial lives, I always tell people, you know, we're probably, we probably have 10 different areas in our financial life and investments is just a slice of it. It's the one that gets the most attention. And people gravitate to, um, you know, it's been gamified now through apps. Um, and everybody can trade, right? And doesn't mean they should, but you know, it's, it's become very gamified and um, anybody can do it. Um, and you know, really that, that's, you know, when I talk to individuals that, that tends to be their, their idea of financial planning is Is, is a portfolio or investment strategy and it's really just a tenth of it. So there's, there's a lot more to it than just that. And if that's all you're focusing on or you're just focusing on things in a silo, like I go and I focus on my tax return or I get my documents drafted by an attorney for my estate. Those things in a silo don't constitute a well crafted, coordinated financial plan. So, you know, I think that that's where we've differentiated ourselves as we all come out of, you know, financial planning backgrounds from, from an education standpoint. And it's just applying a process and that experience and a planning first approach to the bigger picture and really applying that to our clients values and goals. And our job is really to make sure like when I give a, when a fiduciary is giving you advice, um, you know, it's supposed to your best interest. Um, they're supposed to make, you know, be aware of the conflicts of interest and disclose any conflicts of interest. And, and there are conflicts of interest, um, that you can't like rid yourself of any conflict of interest. Right. As, as if you're being objective about it. And it's just being aware of them, um, and talking about them and understanding them and that's it. You know, traditionally most people in my industry still are, you know, predominantly not fiduciaries. Um, you know, there's been a big movement towards that or they're fiduciaries and they're not fiduciary. So they can kind of wear two hats. So they can kind of change, they can give you fiduciary advice, um, which is very usually like generic and general. And then it comes time to implement like the plan and they kind of switch hats. And now they're selling financial products and it's just, it's really confusing to people. And um, it, you know, and I get it. I mean, I had a conversation with a, a couple of physicians on um, on Tuesday. And you know, they, they couldn't discern and I felt so bad for them because they were talking to a lot of different firms and you know, they're not sure what to ask. And generally people, you know, in the industry, people usually find their advisor through some type of referral. And so it's, it's kind of like a likability factor. Do I like the person? Um, you know, and uh, so they look at that and they don't understand the cost structures and the value proposition. You know, it's really hard to show somebody like the value of it, uh, because it's gonna, it's gonna be attained over your lifetime. So it's really confusing world and we just try to, try to just streamline that and, and, and, and break it down. But uh, you know there's, there's fiduciary investment advisors. I think that the key thing is to understand how they're registered. Are they registered with the sec? Are they registered with finra? The SEC is, it's a government agency. And uh, finra, which regulates the registered representatives, people that are kind of transactional more. So that's a self regulatory organization. So that's like all the investment houses, the banks, the big M, the big names that you see on Wall street. It's, they formed a self regulatory organization to kind of regulate themselves. And I'm not knocking on finra. FINRA is, it is an organization that does regulate and does censure people. It just doesn't have the breadth and the power that the SEC does. And so people don't even really understand the structure that their advisor is working in. It's just confusing.

Speaker B: No, I mean, I think it's an important distinction because um, you know, it's something that I've had to navigate throughout life is who do I turn to for advice? Do I need, uh, financial planners or money managers or people like you, which I think is just on a much different level. Um, and truly having someone best interested hard I think is something that you excel at. You do, you, um, very genuine, very knowledgeable. You know, I have the luxury of knowing you for I don't know, gosh, five, six plus years now. Obviously not everyone is in that has their. What are you for advice right here?

Speaker C: No, um, yeah, I mean I look at it this way. Like we, when we all came from like these affiliations with these large financial organizations, the people in my firm, and when we were sitting down to really build the plan and the vision for the firm, the first place we started is if we were the client, um, you know, knowing what we know, how would we want to be treated and how would we want to design the service around that? And that's usually a good place to start. Um, you know, because I don't want to be my wife's financial advisor. Um, you know, so we're kind of, we're clients of the firm too. And um, and so it's, it's just a different approach to building it. You know, when you, when you look at these large organizations as they do press releases for Mergers and acquisitions. It's really always interesting to me because it's never about the clients, it's always about products and distribution. Like we've increased our distribution capacity, we've added X number of field force, um, or now we've got these great products, you know. And so to me that's the wrong place to focus. It's really about, you know, we work for our clients. That's who we work for. And um, you know, that's, that's, that's where you start when you're building, um, a service like this is you start with a client and understanding like what challenges, what, what needs do they have. And a lot of times they, they just don't know what they don't know. And so that's where I think having the experience and the expertise has been really helpful for us as we built that, built that, those service models. So it's worked out pretty well for us and for our clients. So it's been great.

Speaker B: Same kind of module we live by. I mean we're in the service industry. So it's, I mean, you guys, right.

Speaker C: I mean your clients need a solution, right. And, but they don't know how to build it. And uh, you know, they hear they have a pain point or something. There's some guy.

Speaker B: Right. It's important to listen to the pain points, to elicit pain points, to really provide you service around the solution that they need rather than providing a service. Yeah, right. Um, just making sure it's, it's the right solution you're creating. So. But it is a client first approach. Yeah. So a lot of people, if they look at their businesses.

Speaker C: Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, like you say that like the client first approach, it's. When you, when you work for these large organizations, um, there's like they're trying to get you to buy into their goals like which is some type of number related to at the end of the day, profit.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And so it's never like we never sat in meetings, weekly meetings where people were like, okay, how are the clients doing? You know, it was never about the clients. Um, it was always about their companies, you're saying? Yeah, it was always about the sales goals of the uh, bigger parent organization. So your goal had to fit into their, uh, how are you going to help us achieve our goals? You know, like that's just not like that's a conflict of interest in and of itself. Right. If my incentive is really tied to the shareholder of the company versus the individual client. And so it's just a goofy thing. And in your contract, when you're contracted with these companies either as like a, a W2 or sometimes you can kind of be a hybrid, um, W2 as they call it, like a statutory employee, um, you have a contract and you have to meet certain production requirements to maintain the contract. So um, you know, that creates an inherent conflict of interest too because if you don't meet your contract, then you lose your benefits, right? So like if you've got a family and you've got, you're dependent upon hitting your contract minimums, um, you know, or else you lose your health insurance or the subsidy for the health insurance, like you're probably going to be recommending or be forced to um, make a choice between recommending products that help you get your contract maximized, um, or client con or, or products that are in the best interest of your client. And that's where there's conflicts and that becomes a moral issue and a character issue for the person. And it's tough. But that Charlie Munger is uh, Warren, now deceased, but Warren Buffett's right hand man, and I'll bastardize his quote, but it was like, show me the incentive and I'll show you the result. And I think that that's true. I mean it really is for a lot of things. You know, um, you know, we, we, we find clients sometimes. You know, a client made this comment the other day. They were at this really well known investment firm and um, they weren't really getting holistic planning. And on the way out, as they moved over to our firm, their advisor reached out and was like, hey, we can do that too. And it's like, well, why weren't you? Because like that's the most important stuff. I mean the portfolio is a slice. And I mean there were major issues here, um, you know, major tax liabilities. If there was a premature death, um, because the estate plan hadn't been figured out, uh, there was all kinds of gaps and just, just a lot, just a big mess. And all of the stuff that takes a lot of work and a lot of thought to really work through wasn't getting addressed because they were just really kind of collecting a fee and talking about pie charts and investments. And so that's the stuff that, that we see. And it's, it's like, why were you not doing. To me, that's your job. That's like making sure the client is well protected in all areas of their life. Like as a fiduciary to me, like, that's, I take that Very seriously. Like, that's, that's, that's my watch, you know, like. So, um, I don't want somebody to blow up on my watch.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I, I think there's something to be said about also when you're, I guess when call it entrepreneurial or just having your name behind the service, it's your reputation.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that's my, My dad's dad. He's, he's, he's funny man.

Speaker B: He's.

Speaker C: He's deceased, obviously. But, uh, he was born in 1900. He literally walked down like a goat path in 1913 and got on a boat by himself from Greece to Ellis Island. Um, and so, uh. But he was funny when, you know, he would always, he'd always tell me, you know, like m. He's like the only thing you got in this world, Nick, like that he would like in his thick Greek accent. And, and uh, I didn't know what that really meant, you know, at the time. Um, but as, you know, as I matured and, and as I, as I got into the world of business, like, it became super important. Important. And I. That's always stuck with me is, you know, that, that really is it. I mean, it's your name, like at the end of the day, like, that's, that's what we have. Um, your name and your reputation.

Speaker B: What's the best piece of advice you've been given?

Speaker C: I think there's two. I think there's that one. Um. And, um, my dad, actually, I was telling him this the other day. He always said just be honest with yourself. Um, and. And so, you know, I, again, I didn't quite know when I was a kid, when he was telling me that, um, what that really meant. But as I kind of grew up and started, uh, having some experiences, it really meant to me, like, certainly being honest with yourself, but also, um, being self aware and self reflective, uh, is super important, I think, and in helping you to, um, be a better person, to be a better father, to be a better spouse, to be a better, um, steward of your clients or your, or your, your, Your associates. You know, I think like, um, you know, that's, that's really, really important to understand where, you know, where you're strong, where you're weak, what you can and cannot do. And are you being honest when you're, you know, when you're, when no one's looking, you know, um, are you, are you being honest? You know, you have that character. And, and so, I don't know, like, those are, those are two Pieces of advice that I find myself m. You know, constantly reflecting on and thinking about as I'm making decisions or trying to. Trying to get better every day.

Speaker B: I think those are pretty good. I wanted to bring up another couple things. Um, we both like to ski. Uh, but you're, you're on a different degree or a different level. Right. You do heliski. So, you know, give a, give a 10 second explanation of what heliskiing is and then how does someone like me. It was just an, you know, your everyday skier. Yeah. How do I, how do I graduate to hella skiing?

Speaker C: I mean it's like anything, Dan. You got to put in the hours. But you, uh, know, I've been, I've been skiing. I'm 53. I've been skiing for 50 years.

Speaker B: Um. Uh. 50 years.

Speaker C: 50 years. Yeah. I started when I was three. And uh, so that helps, certainly. Right. I was, I was skiing when I could pretty much walk and run. Um, so that, that certainly helps. But uh, heli skiing or cat skiing, it's just a different form of transportation for, you know, getting up the mountain. You need gravity when you're skiing and you need m. You know, so you've got to go up high to, to, to go down. Um, but, but that's really what that is.

Speaker B: Helicopters taking you to places at the.

Speaker C: Yeah, helicopter is going to take you to a place and drop you off, um, so that you can go down and, and take advantage of gravity, um, and enjoy gravity. So it could be a snowcat too, though. It's another form of transportation. And that's just like. Kind of think of it as a car with like tracks instead of wheels.

Speaker B: That's a thing that ran over. Um.

Speaker C: Uh.

Speaker B: Is it Jeremy Runner? Is that the actor?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Yeah. He was driving a snowcat, so that.

Speaker B: He was.

Speaker C: Yeah. So snow cats can be used to push snow around and move snow. It could also be used as a method of trans. So both of them are, are, are great. And to be fair, like my bucket list still contains heli skiing. I have not gone heli skiing yet. I've done a lot.

Speaker B: I thought you went to helis skiing.

Speaker C: No, it's. It's the one I haven't checked off.

Speaker B: Um, you were going to go and then maybe.

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I was supposed to go this year, but I had a, uh. I. Unfortunately I had a. I had one of life's little, uh, events, a little hiccup, uh, kind of happened and uh, I took a fall and I still feel responsible for that actually. That's Right, I forgot about that. You were the one like, oh, go there.

Speaker B: You got it.

Speaker C: Which is totally a freak accident. Yeah, no, you bear no responsibility. But, yeah, I compressed my spinal cord and, uh, um, so I was, I've been recovering this year from that. But, um, I did just book a, um, ski trip. So in March, I'll be going to Revelstoke, which is place in, uh, Canada that I've never been, that I've always wanted to go to. I've been to most places, the Midwest and, and the Rocky Mountains in California. I just haven't been to some places in Canada yet.

Speaker B: What's the hardest mountains you did?

Speaker C: Uh, I mean, like, my favorite, like, resort kind of like, place is Jackson Hole. Um, there's just a lot of super accessible, steep terrain there, and it's just a fun mountain. You know, if there's good snow, it's a great place to be.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: I love Jackson.

Speaker B: What have you done in the Alps?

Speaker C: I haven't done the Alps yet. And actually I, I, you know, I grew up in Wheaton, Illinois, and there were, um, a couple of us from Wheat, and there was three guys. Actually, one guy, I'll give a shout out. His name is Joe Balon. Um, Joe is in my brother's class, so he's four years younger than me. He, uh, lives in a town called La Grob, France. And, uh, he is a international mountain guide. And, uh, I should have, I should have followed Joe. Sometimes I think I should have followed Joe. But, uh, there's a guy who's living life on purpose. And uh, if you, if you can look him up online, it's, he's, he's really cool. He guides some of the top skiers in the world through some of the most treacherous terrain. I mean, stuff that would give you the willies if you were, uh, if you were trying to access it or trying to ski down it. So it's, it's pretty cool. So shout out to Joey. He's a, he's a great drummer and a, uh, great skier. And, uh, yeah, he's, he's living, he's living, uh, the good luck skiing and drumming.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: It's awesome in this little French town. I mean, so literally, like this, this town. Like the mayor comes out every day and like, declares the mountain open. And there's, there's one, there's one. You have to have a guide there. There's one tram and Joe's guided all over the world. He started, um, one of the first heli skiing operations in In Alaska. And so, uh, it wasn't him. He worked with a guy named Doug Coombs, who's. He's deceased. But he was like, yeah, an incredible extreme skier. And, um, so they were good friends. And, uh, that's where, um, Doug Pass was in Le Gras, France. And, uh. Um. And that's where Joe is today. So it's. It's pretty, uh. Pretty cool. So I love following Joe from. From far distance. I'd love to get out and see Joey. I've talked about it. I've had, you know, just like the incident last year or this year, um, certainly set me back. And, you know, I've had a few other things that have come up, you know, in life. I've had my fair share of medical, uh, experiences.

Speaker B: So. But.

Speaker C: But yeah, trying to get out to see him. I would love to do that.

Speaker B: And the first time I ever skied was on the Swiss Alps. I don't know if I took. I think I told you this, actually.

Speaker C: That's pretty cool. That's a. That's a. That's an interesting place to have your first experience.

Speaker B: Well, so, I mean, you gotta be young and dumb. Which I was this.

Speaker C: When you were. Were you living abroad? Is that.

Speaker B: When I lived abroad and.

Speaker C: Which is a. Is a big. Is a big. Like, if I, you know, one of. Just a handful.

Speaker B: Small.

Speaker C: Probably. Three regrets in my life. That was one of them. I didn't do a study at bro.

Speaker B: I mean, if. I can't believe the thought crossed my mind of ever not doing it right. I mean, um, I. I just. It was that to this day, you know, obviously, you know, kids getting married, all those great experiences. Um, studying abroad was the best experience of my life. It's gotta be. Or one of, um, my. I just got a text from my nephew today, actually. He's going to Florence as well. I studied in Florence.

Speaker C: Um, my daughter's. You know that, right? I've told you that she's going there next semester.

Speaker B: Your daughter is? Yeah, yeah, my nephew. Like in, uh, January.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's.

Speaker B: She is too.

Speaker C: So we'll have to get them connected.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, for sure. That'll be awesome.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's cool.

Speaker B: But, you know, so I'm. I don't know what it was.

Speaker A: I.

Speaker B: 20. 20 years old, maybe. And, you know, my friend Michael, who you've met, um, you know, in high school, he was doing the bunny hills up at Alpine and Molmont. And so that's. That was his skiing experience. And I'd never put on skis. Before in my life. And we're studying abroad with a couple of our other buddies. And you know, every weekend we're taking on a map and we're deciding where to go. And one weekend we said, okay, let's go to Switzerland. So we go to Switzerland. We just don't think anything. We're stupid. We're like, yeah, we'll ski, it'll be fun. And we, I'm like, okay, sure, I've never skied. And he's like, I'll take care of them. So, um, we get to the ski lodge. You know, it's obviously, we're in hostels and everything. This place is such a dump. Um, you know, you wake up, you get all your equipment, you jump a train and the train takes you all the way to the top of the mountain. So because you're, you're at actually at the base of the mountain, that's where the hotel was. So it's not like you're mid mountain and you're just taking a lift up, you're taking the train all the way to the top. That's like a 20 minute train ride if I remember whatever it was. When you get, when you get off the train, there's, you know, there's like 100, 200 people on that train. And everyone gets out like they've done it a million times and they, you know, just strapped in their skis. And when you get off the train, you're actually at the top of like a mini mountain. You're at the top of a hill, I guess, if you will. And it's about a hundred foot drop to the ski lodge. So if you just want to get to the ski lodge, the base and you know, set up shop, you gotta ski to get there. And um, I don't even know how to strap on my skis. I'm looking everyone to my left, to my right, they're all just clicking in and going. And I'm just like, where are the stairs? How the hell am I going to get there? So my friends are like, no, okay, you know, put your toe in, just click your heel, whatever. I'm like, okay. I get, once I get that second ski on, um, I just go and I'm off.

Speaker C: I'm.

Speaker B: And I have no idea how to stare. I have no idea how to stop. I have no idea what I'm doing. I almost killed myself hitting the, hitting the lodge. I was able to turn and I went about 20 to 30ft. And just a tremendous amount of fluff, right? I mean this was fluff up to my waist. And so I was like 20 or 30ft in. And it took, I remember taking me like 20 minutes just to get out of that. Like my skis were off. I was walking through this snow wet,

Speaker C: and you feel like your heart's racing. Oh my God. I was out of energy at that

Speaker B: point just getting out of that thing. But the, the good news was after. So I, we were there for a weekend or a three day weekend, whatever it was. By the third day I was doing the Black Diamonds. And uh, just, you know, when you're that young and I guess nimble, I, uh, was just able to pick it up really quickly. So whenever I'm on a slope, I'm just like, you know, if I'm scared or I'm not with it, I'll just say, you know what? I did the Black diamonds on the Alps. I can do this. I can do the bunny hill, whatever. This is nothing. Yeah, but the older I get, the harder I'm falling. And uh, yeah, the first day in the Alps, or maybe it was the second day, I still didn't know how to stop. And I would stop just by falling. And I just remember spitting blood one time I was not up, the ski patrol, the Swiss ski patrol, like picks me up. I'm like, like, you okay? And I'm like spitting blood. I'm like, yeah, you know, thumbs up, I'll 10 great.

Speaker C: And I'm off again.

Speaker B: Oh, uh. Such an idiot.

Speaker C: That's pretty funny.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah, yeah. I mean that's, that's a cool experience. I mean, like, and uh, it's, it's awesome that your nephew's gone and it's awesome that you went and, and that's what I'm talking about. Like when I early, you know, kind of bring it back to where we started with living life on purpose. I mean, like, that's a perfect example of taking advantage of an opportunity. Um, that today, you know, that was, you know, a number of years ago, but it's still like just listening to you tell the story and talk about that experience, like what a great experience that, you know, had. And to me that's what life is about, is those experiences, the people you share them with, um, and the relationships that you build. Like that that's what's important. And I think it's awesome that you're doing that. And I can't wait for my daughter to do it and can't wait to hear the story. So, um, what, what, what would you say, like, uh, because you like to travel? Um, what would you say is like your favorite place, um, that you've traveled to?

Speaker B: Oh, you know, um, I think I have, I think I have so many. I mean I'm definitely a sucker for Europe and I think it just comes from living there. I traveled throughout most of Europe and most of the countries out there. The history is just so rich. Um, you know, it. I, I've been to beaches a thousand times. If you had to pick a beach or mountain, I always have trouble picking because when I'm in the mountains I just freaking love it. I think it's a beautiful thing. It's peaceful. Um, we've done Aspen a handful of times in the summer actually, which is just really amazing. That's definitely up there, one of my favorites. And then, you know, it's no secret, I tell people all the time I go to the Grand Cayman a lot and that's, you know, that opposite. This is beachy. And when I'm in there I feel like. So those are definitely two of my favorites. But um, I don't know. Italy, Italy to me top everything. Just the culture and the. Obviously the food. But you know, Europeans live in uh, a, in just a different way. It's just they, they walk everywhere, they're, they're, they're active as much as they're not. I mean it's just, it's a, uh, it's just a different culture that I really love when I'm there at peace. So I don't know. I mean Italy for sure is up there. Florence is one of the best places to me on earth. But Aspen town or a mountain town would be Aspen.

Speaker C: Yeah, mountains in the summer. You know, I, I always, I lived in the mountain. I lived in Breckenridge. And uh, you know I.

Speaker B: That's right, because you went to learned it. You were older, right?

Speaker C: Um, no, I was not. I was just living in Breckenridge, uh, living like a popper with no, you know, nothing in my pocket lint. Um, I literally had to drive like three miles to the closest phone. Um, and uh, but uh, it was

Speaker B: your buddy that went to uh.

Speaker C: Yeah, he was, he was, he was ah. He was at a different school. Um, he was a school in um. He was at Chadron State actually. And um, um. Told a football coach that he's not coming back for uh, football. He's going to go pursue skiing. And he was amazing, amazing, amazing athlete. Guys, everything he does, he takes it to the nth degree. I mean he, he's like a world class hunter right now and taxidermist uh, but he was climbing big walls. Kind of an interesting guy. And uh. But anyways, yeah, we moved out there together and, um, Breckenridge, it was like. I guess the point I was trying to make though was the summers were better than the winter.

Speaker B: Yeah, you don't. And you don't think about it.

Speaker C: You don't think about it. I mean, I guess you do, but like, I, I wasn't at the time. I was focused on skiing. And I mean the summer was amazing. We had this 14, ah, 000 foot peak across the street from us. We lived at like 10, 000ft, so it wasn't like a major climb, but just going out there every chance we could get and just spending time in the, in the mountains and, uh, it's hiking and I learned to fly fish there. Really, really, really cool experience. The summers out there. Just amazing. The fall is, is amazing. The winners are just long. That's the problem there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And um, as a young person, it's, it's really expensive and hard to believe

Speaker B: as an old person too. It's really.

Speaker C: Yeah, as an old person too. But you know, back then, I mean, man, we had, it was, it was, man, it was hard living. We thank, uh, goodness for the barter system. I think that was the only thing that got us through. Yeah, we were, we would tune skis at night and uh, usually for the locals, they would swap out whatever, you know, if they worked at a restaurant, would get food. And it, uh, was so expensive to live there. And it was just like, just basically paycheck to paycheck. And eating tuna and crackers was, um, you know, crackers. You got out of the, out of the, out of the mountain, like, restaurant, uh, you know, like, put them in your pockets and bring them home and you'd eat a can of tuna and crackers. And that was like, that was, that was your meal. So it was pretty, pretty good.

Speaker B: Awesome.

Speaker C: But it was a great.

Speaker B: Everyone in their teens and 20s.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it was a great time and you know, like, you know, back, you know, and that kind of circles back to what we were talking about. Like we didn't have, you know, we didn't have anything. And uh, um, but we were enjoying life like, you know, to, to the fullest. I would say at that point it was a great experience. And you know, I learned, I learned a lot from that experience, you know. You know, I think we learned a lot from the struggles and the, um, you know, the um, you know, the speed bumps along the way. I Think that, that the adversity that we face, that's where some of the greatest lessons in life come from. If we have, you know, and it's a choice, I mean, you can choose how you view those events, right? I mean, um, you know, cancer is a terrible thing, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. But it was one of the best experiences of my life, just going through that whole. That whole process and, and um, you know, seeing people really struggling. Like when I would go in for chemotherapy, um, I had a very highly treatable form of cancer with a high success rate. But, um, you know, I saw people really fighting and families fighting for their loved ones. And, um, you know, I, I learned a lot from that experience that I wouldn't trade, you know, for the world. It really helped me to, you know, make sure I was focused on the right things. It causes you to really question life in general. But, uh, yeah, I think there's a lot of learning that happens in adversity. So if you're open to it.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, um. It's a. I mean, I guess the, the what doesn't makes you stronger quote. Yeah, uh, it's definitely a grounding experience. I think everyone must have some first or second degree of separation of cancer, right? For me, it was my father's had it several times. And knock on wood, he's trying to say is that I think everybody, they haven't had it. Know, someone has. And that's just a.

Speaker C: And there's other forms of adversity too, right? I mean, you know that as well as anybody, Dan. You've had challenges that I'm aware of. And, and like, you, you know, you're

Speaker B: talking, you're talking about my challenges at pickleball, right? Well, yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, is there any other. Are there other challenges? I mean, not. We didn't even talk pickleball. I mean, yeah, uh, that is, there's a lot of lessons in pickleball. I'm telling you. I was, I think I was sharing some, some of them with you the other day. But like, it. It's funny because if you're willing to be self aware and willing to be honest with yourself, I think you can find, um, some opportunities in there. And for me, like, it was just like, man, I was being really, you know, pickleball. I'm really, really rough on myself. You know, like, I'm like my saboteur. You know, I expect perfection and, uh, just not a realistic expectation. You know, I want, I want to be super good. Um, you know, I'M okay. But, uh, um, you know, it's. It's just like, you know, you can. You can really learn a lot of lessons from that game, too.

Speaker B: Totally agree. I totally agree. I'm still learning them. You know, for me, what's so frustrating is that when mind is moving so much faster than body, right? And your mind is executing perfectly, but your body's executing, um, there's a lot of lessons deep down in there, but it's. It's the constant working at something in general. But the constant working at it gets you better. And you're not going to get better sitting on your couch watching Instagram.

Speaker C: And the other piece of that is, too, is it's. You got to enjoy it too. Right? Like, that's really what you're there for, is to get. Sometimes. Sometimes we look. We look. You know, we kind of get diverted from the actual enjoyment of in the moment, doing something with people you like to be around and having a good time. Sometimes we, you know, our mind can shift to the gap. I think you read that book, right?

Speaker B: Gap in the hand. I read, yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, you're kind of looking at the gap all the time. And it's like, remember when you've only been playing a year? So, like, you remember when you first started, like, think about where you are today, you know?

Speaker B: Completely embarrassing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now I'm just embarrassed by the real. It's the people that I'm hanging out with. They're always. They're always better. It's all right.

Speaker C: Surround yourself with people that you aspire to be like, that's, uh.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: But. Yeah, I don't know. It's. It's funny. It's funny how that works, but it's a fun game.

Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.

Speaker C: What else do you want to talk about, Dan?

Speaker B: Oh, man. We could be here for hours.

Speaker C: Probably.

Speaker B: Good. We can talk about.

Speaker C: If anyone needs a bodyguard at a

Speaker B: Pearl Gym concert is definitely your guy.

Speaker C: Um, Dan. And, uh, for the record, you did take me to my first Pearl Jam concert.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker C: Grateful for, um. And I've now since attended my second, which was.

Speaker B: Yeah, you went to Wrigley, right?

Speaker A: You're there.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. That was awesome. I love Wrigley's concert. The concerts are Wrigley. Um. But, yeah, that was. That was really good. And, uh.

Speaker B: Um. Yeah. I don't know.

Speaker C: Like, it. That was such a great experience. And it was so random. It was like, such spur of the moment. You're like, hey. And I'm like, that's what I lived

Speaker B: by, you know, half the Experiences I've had are really just. They're spur of the moment. I think that's just. There's a certain excitement about. There's a certain, um, aspect of, you know what, Screw it. We're not. You're not here forever. Just. Just get up and do it and what's the worst that can happen? Yeah, I think.

Speaker A: And that's a.

Speaker C: You bring up an interesting point. Because, like, I think about that all the time. Like, you know, I think about my own mortality. Like, we've done, um. You know, I've done some exercises where like, I kind of map out my timeline of life, you know, at different ages and like, you know, what my age is, what my, you know, the important people around me, what their ages are and what. What's happening in their lives. What's happening.

Speaker B: It.

Speaker C: It's so interesting, like, to. It's funny. It's like a curse too, because it's like life's like this big buffet table, at least in my view. Um, and there's just so much that you can, you know, there's just so much to do and experience. But your stomach's only so big. Like you can't eat all the food at the buffet table.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, you know, but, uh, but you can kind of pick and choose and get some samplers.

Speaker B: But I.

Speaker C: But just, just getting out there and, and doing it like today. Don't put, put it off, people. You know, I think that's one of the things that I like about the entrepreneurs organization is the people in that group tend to be very like, yeah, let's like, let's do it. Like, instead of like, talking about, um, things or wishes.

Speaker B: Motivation.

Speaker C: Yeah, like they're, they're out doing stuff. And that's what life is. It's a collection of experiences. And, uh, sometimes we can get, you know, just diverted from that in terms of, like, we're pursuing a career or we're pursuing a dollar or, um, you know, or we're. Or we're fearful of. What if it doesn't. You know, what if I. What if they tell me no? Or what if it's like, at the end of the day, like this. There's a healthy generations. No one's gonna know who you are anyway. So, like, what does it really matter? Um, like just get out there and. And go for it. Whatever it is. Just try to make the most of it. Like, that's.

Speaker B: It's.

Speaker C: Again, I'm not perfect at that at all, but like, I really try to, uh, really try to try to live by that.

Speaker B: Maybe we'll. I definitely will be better than.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know you will. You'll dominate him. That'll be great.

Speaker B: Hit that, boss.

Speaker A: All. Um, right.

Speaker B: Cool.

Speaker C: See you, Dan.

Speaker B: Later, pal. Nice to see you.

Speaker A: All right, so that's it for today's episode of Live Bite. A huge thanks to Nick for joining us and sharing his thoughtful insights on life and everything else. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe and leave us a good review. That would be much appreciated. And stay tuned for more fun and inspiring stories on Lifebite.

Speaker C: Sa.