Clarity is the Real Key to Transformation 🐦‍🔥 with Charlo Allizard

Speaker A: Give me a lever and I will move the work. These ancient words from wise men are more relevant now than ever. Today, more and more companies and individuals are leveraging technology to create great products online. The lever has transformed into digital tools. Hello everyone and welcome to Leverage, the show where we talk about building great products online. In this podcast, you will learn how to leverage product management, no code and AI to innovate, make better decisions, stay relevant in your career and grow your business as a company or as a solopreneur. From product managers to product builders and solopreneurs and even beyond, you will learn from the best to achieve your own success. Hello everyone. My guest today has been working in Tech since 2011. He helps his clients creating deep and lasting transformation in their businesses, but also in their lives. His clients ranges from highest potential solopreneurs and top freelancers, but also SaaS makers to hypergrowth startups to 1450, 100. He is a coach, a mentor and aspiring partner. Please welcome Charlot Aliza. Thanks for joining us, Charlotte.

Speaker B: Hi, Antonio. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.

Speaker A: Yeah, pleasure is all mine, man. I really wanted to have you in this podcast because I think when you are a creator, it's a transformation path, right? And um, I was like, you know what transformation is all about. Also introspection. We need to have Charlotte on this podcast because it takes also resilience, you know, the mindset that it takes to become a solopreneur, to create stuff and to expose them online. And so I really wanted to have you here because you've been a product manager, a developer, a maker, a tech co founder. Maybe you can start maybe by sharing what led you to become a high performance coach and what led you to this transformation? Uh,

Speaker B: uh, well, first of all, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Really happy to do this together. Thanks. And I love the name of the podcast like Leverage.

Speaker A: Thanks man.

Speaker B: And I really love it. And I think that's one way to tackle your question. Actually what led me to do that work is team. Not, not necessarily deep, but like strong, powerful coaching, conversation could be on half the power of bringing the most leverage. Actually when you think about it, if, if someone can jump in and sit with you and work with you in a conversation session with high leverage questions that are going to bring new insights. And then you are as the people who come to me and the founders and the creators I work with, most of the time, they have the most leverage on the company. So if you can have leverage on leverage, then exponential leverage. Yeah. And this is a very, I mean we go deeper into it. But um.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.

Speaker B: Simply, I love it. That's all also.

Speaker A: That's why. Thanks. I like this idea of leverage because I think Naval Hari can't also talk about that. You know, media and code. But also for me, tech, you know, Internet is the leverage of everybody, everyone today with AI, automation, you name it, all the tech, you can have a leverage on your life. That's um, the name, you know, that's where you come from, but also from you uh, know Archimedes who said give me a leverage and I will move the word. Yeah. That's also the source. So you become this coach, right. How did you switch from all those roles I mentioned, like developer manager, uh, co founder to coach. What's the journey? Uh, how do you switch?

Speaker B: I think there are two, there are two ways to look at it. One is to draw a line in the sand and say they want to after a before and an after and I can put a date on it. I think I really became a coach when I gave myself authorization to do it. And also like people where people were. Some people have been talking to me about me becoming a coach way before I felt ready for it. And one day I was sitting with a very uh, powerful coach in Paris and she probably took two hours with me asking questions and listening to me. And it was the first time I felt heard like this and it was like moving and, and uh, then she asked me about three people who would, would have a strong influence of me or I would like, look, I would like use as, as references. And she was like, when I brought those names she was like, Charlotte, you want to be a coach? I was like. And I was refusing the idea at that time because I had a preconceived idea that a coach would be your typical middle aged guy in an open space, high fiving everyone. And it was not rock and roll enough, it was not fancy enough, it was not, I don't know, I had this, it was not for me at that time. I was just not ready for it.

Speaker A: Interesting resistance.

Speaker B: And then. Yeah, and then, and also I thought that my life would have to be perfect for me to help people. Mhm.

Speaker A: Be an example.

Speaker B: Perfect, perfect. So I, I thought that I would have to go through the full path of a co founder with a exit so that I could claim the right to be a powerful coach. But this is not, this is not my profile. And then it took me a few years to realize that my place might be more Aside or as a lever rather than a founder tech startup with what comes with it.

Speaker A: That's interesting man. So that's interesting because um, there is no date. Exactly. So it was a bit as you said before, it's when you're ready. Right. So you switch when you're ready. Yeah, it happens because you had this conversation.

Speaker B: That's. Mhm. And then I've, I've gone through different uh, kind of experiences in my professional life, but also in my personal life that led me to asking many questions to try to fix me and to heal me. And so my, my, my connection with coaching initially came from helping myself and at. And so if I leave it on the side for the moment and then I rewind to what I was doing before when I was helping entrepreneurs and companies building website and apps. Initially you think you're selling website and web apps and apps and then you think you see me. Do you, are you, do you sell to get a website or an app, uh, you need code to do code, you need to design. To do design you need content to, to do content you need a vision and you need a message. And to do this you need to have deep conversation of clarification. And the work of someone who helps you build great product is first of all to ask the proper, the good question to the different stakeholders.

Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I really like it. It's really like you go up and up and up. At a certain point it becomes like even metaphysics. But I like this idea. And we go back to this idea of aspiring partner. Right? Because you are, you design yourself as a sparring partner for clients. So you're always like um, trying to, to, to go the upper level. Right. How do you tailor this approach to do you. To um, your clients, you know, how do you do this?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, maybe just to add to, to the previous question. So when you, when, when you build product, there is a product but there is a journey itself. And when someone comes to ask you for your help to build that product because they have a vision, whether it's an mvp, whether it's a website for um, one person studio or whether it's a big ah, corporate Website For a 500 company, the person in charge of the project wants to your help to move from a frustrated state to b. Desire desired state. And so you help them cross that journey. And this is, this is going beyond the, the deliverable and yes as you've coined it, the more you go up the ladder, the more leverage you have and then eventually you stay at the Conversation level. So my coaching actually finds its roots pretty much when I started creating websites. And, And Awesome.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: and now. So back to, Back to your question.

Speaker A: How do you tailor your approach?

Speaker B: Well, it's, it's like probably we. We'll go back to it a few times, but it's very tempting. So many times I have questions about coaching.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I want to talk about it. And also maybe as a disclaimer, I would love. But you know that because you've experienced it, so you know it. But not everyone knows that, um, coaching can be seen as a concept. But first and foremost, coaching is an experience. It's a transformation and it has to be live. You. You have to go through it. I'm not saying about the whole coaching conversation, the whole coaching path of like six months or one year working together, but at least one conversation, like a sample. And it's like, it's like cooking. I can tell you about

Speaker A: the recipe.

Speaker B: My, My grand grandmother way of cooking. Whatever dish it is, I can talk about it for seven hours. You would not get it until you taste it. And so we try to unwrap the coaching concept. Why? Most of the time, if you really want to get it, you need to do the experience yourself. And it starts with a conversation like it.

Speaker A: That's.

Speaker B: Because that's a disclaimer for the. Probably for the whole conversation. But then back to your question. Back to your question, I think so if we think about leverage and we can see it as there is an entry point and usually, usually like the creator or the founder or the leader is coming with one level of consciousness of the problem. So, um, I'm in this situation and I want to go to this destination. So they have an idea about the destination and they have an idea about their situation. And so what I do is I help them being way clearer about the problem and way clearer about the destination. And this is spreading, this is enlarging the gap. And usually it comes. Yeah. Clarifying the gap. And so when we, if we just, if we just look at the problem, it's like in copywriting or in sales, the problem is not X. The problem is actually. Yeah. So they come with the consciousness of the problem is like, I have this X problem or this a problem. And then through working together, we actually realize it's not that problem. It's actually this problem. It's way deeper. It's. It's somewhere else. And you just don't want to see it. Because if, if you were seeing it, you would have to go through it. And that Might be uncomfortable. So we get clear on that, and then we remove obstacles and we try to do it where the, where there is the most leverage.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. I, uh, like this idea of perspective, right? We go back to this idea of the perspective, and you help clients, right, shift their perspective and say, okay, you have this desired outcome that's there. You have this level of consciousness. Let's switch the spotlight. And now you see the obstacles blocking the way and you try to remove them. Right. So I like this idea of, um, moving the lights and you highlight what's the resistance, what's the obstacles before you go in. Deep transformation. So, uh, that's a good, good first step. I love it. Can you maybe share a story of a client who achieved, um, transformation like that with your coaching? I don't know. Or an example of a client? I don't know.

Speaker B: I mean, there are so many things that come to mind.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And, yeah, there are so many things that come to mind. And I have the, um, pleasure these days. And so after I started, I start having a few years, uh, of coaching and so I can look. And it's very interesting to see how the people I've worked with maybe two years ago or three years ago have evolved way beyond what actually they came up for initially. Because then if you change the trajectory, then six months later, yes, you might have fixed and achieved things, but then two years later is way different than what it could have been. I've had clients really stretching themselves to work with me financially. Like really, like committing to do the work. Uh, it's not only financially. It's also like being involved emotionally, being open, doing the work, showing up in conversations. And I mean, also, I don't want to talk too much about money because then if I start framing it, then we would have just one focus, but I've, uh, yeah, we would have only one. And so it comes in so many size and shapes. So maybe a few example could be, I had a gentleman, um, in three weeks creating an increase of plus 40% in, in his, uh, in his, um, paycheck, plus like not like, like a few hundred thousand of stocks. So from boredom to actually closing that fully remote. Another guy, another gentleman was, um, a bit lost after two years of trying to make the startup work. And they were left. So his, his, his wife and his baby daughter left with probably 30,000 in the bank to leave. And the startup was not, uh, was not moving anywhere. And he wanted, yeah, and he wanted to, he wanted to go back into code, but to do actually to do it in a way that would really support his family and know like they have like created this very beautiful. I was waiting awaiting the second. A second child. And he wanted to have a boat. And when they formed the house, there is a boat is actually on the lake and there was a place to park the boat in front of the house. And if he wanted to make it like it wasn't. It would have been very hard for him to pull this off his hat.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And part of it is his work, part of it is a little bit of magic. But that's one. And also like I have like guys this day that I see that they, they had like they've time 4 time, 5 times 7 their uh, their revenues and so they came initially. That's yeah, well they are doing the, they are doing the hard work. I'm just asking questions. But, but, but, but, but yeah like they were able to move away from freelancing stricto census to move like to create an agency or to start some other consulting on the side with pretty high ticket or to uh, develop their services and have a CEO take their spot so that they can move on to another project really freeing them from trading time for money and go beyond freelancing. And so that's, that's really cool too. And I have a client or so in mind. Like she, she came to me. She was probably 25. She had to, I mean she uh, she just, she, she, she, she had to borrow money to work together. I'm not, I was not suggesting she should but she like I want to do it, I'm going to borrow money. She was probably making, I don't know, like again I've said I don't want to share figures because it would be too. But like she, she was like like a five. She uh, was, she was living on a five, five uh figure income but she barely had time for herself, for health, for exercise, for anything else but work. She was grinding. And so we worked together and fast forward two years, she's closed like 70 clients among like brands everyone would know at least in France.

Speaker A: Wow, nice.

Speaker B: Or from the, the yeah creators from the, the the creator economy as well. Like really like top level personal uh brands. She refused some work and she's been able to buy a house in uh, Versailles, close to Paris.

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: Yeah. In two, in two years. And she's like 28, 27.

Speaker A: Just crazy. Do you think like uh, it's like, it's awesome because you see all those transformation. You are really like at the VIP spot, you know to see this, uh, I would say spectacle. Right. This is, this is a nice place to be, to watch and be there to see information, but also to be the actor. Do you think it's because you arrived at the right time or it's because you really play a key role in this transformation?

Speaker B: Well, my ego wants to think I'm playing a key role because in 10 I'm important.

Speaker A: Of course you smoothed away. Maybe you arrive at the right time because they were ready, as you said, and you smoothed away. I don't know, I just guess the

Speaker B: more, the more, the more I do it and the more, um, yeah, the more I do it, the more I realize that it's not about me and the more I try to withdraw myself from the equation.

Speaker A: That's powerful. This. Yeah, there's very um, self consciousness. Right. Who can do that, you know, worse than a coach can say that, what you've just said.

Speaker B: I don't know. I think so. It's. But when you think about it, it's pretty close to a developer mindset. Like, you know, like developers, they want to be lazy because when you are lazy then you will probably, you will have. I, I don't know. When I was coding I had uh, my command line and I have like all those aliases so that I wouldn't have to type when I do a git push. I would have aliases for everything. And so you start from you are lazy and then from this laziness, you build a system to. So you, you, you lead a very complex life in order to live a very simple life. Which is very awkward. But yeah, you want to withdraw yourself from, from the equation. Um, but it's also um, yeah.

Speaker A: A sign of maturity. Right. So I really like it. And you mentioned this, this girl and those guys, they're trying to launch the startup. Uh, uh, she also crashed in the creator economy. What common challenges do they have? You know, those high achievers do they face? Uh, how, how do you, do you help them? What's the common challenges they, they do face? If, if they are common challenges?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's, it's the same for everyone. I mean we can go into the details, but usually it comes to the idea that you can't, they don't know what they don't know. And you can't change what you don't see.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And it's like you living inside. If you can picture um, a bottle of water and you are inside and from the inside you cannot read the sticker, cannot read this because you're inside. And so if, if you can, if you can get someone who actually is knowledgeable enough about your kind of business or industry so they can connect to your problem. I don't have to be better than my clients are all better than and more successful than I, uh, am and I would ever be in their fields. But if I can help them the things that they don't see and that can help them move forward, then this is it. And the obstacle, the obstacle becomes a way. So you see the obstacle and then you say, okay, this is what we need to tackle. And sometimes. So I've shared a few stories about maybe transformation over the course of a few months or a few years. But sometimes is also like people do coaching because they want to do coaching. You know, they are conscious that. And usually it comes with a little bit more maturity either in business or in life. But they value the idea of sitting with someone, um, once or a few times a month, depending on, uh, the logistics that will. Because they know that whatever they come with, we sit together and we will find something that will ease the way and for this moment of time in their day, in their week, in their month, they will stop leading. And I would. And the coach or I would be leading so they trust me enough to lead the conversation so they can relax because they're taking care of everyone. And then something else happened because they use a different way of approaching their problems and their, their intellect. And sometimes, you know, I've shared a few stories, but it could be also like the number two of, um, a hotel company, like in his 30s, like running a company of 50 hotels maybe. And, and he needs to deal with this situation with, um, a human resource. Trying to pick my words, deal with a human resource situation in one of the countries. And this is a very pretty hot subject. And so if we create, can create ease around the way we would communicate.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Or I would see this, this is leveraged because we spend one hour together or a few hours together. But then if they can tackle this right, then this will impact, um, many people and the whole company and, and pretty much every stakeholder. If it's uh, that's one or maybe one time. It's like a couple of entrepreneur. They are like husband and wife. And this situation is like, uh, I have this thing, but I don't know, can we talk about it? And then we jump on the phone and then we spend seven minutes talking about it. I'm like, okay, give me, give me a sec. And then I would call someone else and whatever the subject is. And I would come back in and we will fix this in maybe 25 minutes. And they say okay on the spot. M. But m. They also like spend despair themselves a year of, of brain damage. Because this route was definitely not good. And this is. Was done below an hour. And maybe another story is one guy wanted to sell his consulting. He's a former cto and he came to me, he wanted to.

Speaker A: To.

Speaker B: To sell high leverage. And he came to me. I'm doing this pro proposition to help a startup and his first proposition was 10K. And we sat together and I helped him see the value of his work. And he signed pretty much the same proposition at 37. I took two hours.

Speaker A: Two hours with um, high return on investment. I would say. You see that I liked it because it's actually uh, you mentioned brain damage, but I think this is the word. It helps do things in a way that's easier with less brain damage. And because you do the hard stuff with less brain damage, you go faster and you go smoother and it becomes easy and um, it becomes like more enjoyable. So I would say uh, for me too, it makes hard stuff more enjoyable. And this is also what I noticed myself when uh, I did Coaching is like there is hard stuff, there is hard way, there is obstacles. How do you tweak, switch things from hard to easy mode? And I think that's the, that's the beauty of coaching. Sometimes It's. It allows you to put the easy mode and say it doesn't need to be hard, it doesn't need to be uh, extreme, doesn't need to be a brain damage situation experience. You can move things, you can change things and you can do that. Not the coach.

Speaker B: Yeah. I love this perspective, man.

Speaker A: It's.

Speaker B: You mentioned the word high performance early on.

Speaker A: Um, yeah.

Speaker B: And so we are. We very often use the word performance. But what is high performance? High performance is when you go for performance, high performance, but you go after it in a way that is pleasurable and with uh, certain eloquence and peace of mind. You don't necessarily go through it. Sometimes it's war and when it's war, you want to have like a war strategy and that's fine. But it's not always the right strategy.

Speaker A: No, exactly.

Speaker B: Sometimes you don't have to grind and you just see things differently. You. We'll go to that probably later on. Um, but you can slow down and, and find more eloquent solutions.

Speaker A: Love that. You know this sentence that keeps. Remind me that you. But it's Ah. Like go slow to go smooth. Go smooth to go fast. I love it.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: It, uh, sometimes it comes in my mind very often. And you know, you were mentioning. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, go on, go ahead. Yeah, I was going. You say, you know, like, uh, the war strategy. And it's about, you know, I think when we did coaching was like, yeah, we talk about intense effort, you know, intensifying the effort, but sometimes it's not always the answer. Right. And I was going to ask you, how do you help clients break this mindset? How do you find new approach? How do you help them find this new approach if you have ideas?

Speaker B: I mean, again, like, we're going to, like, explore a few concepts, but, uh, it will be only be scratching the surface, but as you said, like, go slow. So how do you run a motorbike? How do you learn how to ride a motorbike? The same way you learn how to ride a Porsche or the same way you learn how to play guitar. You first go slow so that you can go smooth, and once you can go smooth, you can go fast. And of course, like, if we're not talking about fast, iteration, breaking things, getting out of the building, and actually iteration, we're not talking about that. We're talking about, uh, this spot where for. For a moment in time in the conversation, you slow down or you envision what, what would happen if I were to slow down.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker B: And you can actually iterate fast by slowing down. But what do you slow down? You slow down the pace at which you think, and you also tune down the suffering because you are taking about. You talk. We are talking about hard things. So are hard things. Difficult things. And it's very important to remember that there is a difference between pain and suffering. I can end, I can endure pain. I don't have. I, uh, don't necessarily have to suffer every bit of it. And the difference will be mostly, in many cases, in the story that I tell myself about that pain. So I think this Hormozi was saying, like, what you are doing is hard, and this is what hard looks like. So if you want to do the hard things, then just realize you're doing hard things. And this is what hard looks like. And there is no problem with it. As long as this is intentional and you are free, you are free to do the hard things. That's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's okay. But sometimes, you know, it's. You're just stuck. Uh, I don't know why. The way you approach things, you're paralyzed and you're Just stuck. And this is also something I, um, experienced being stuck. Right. Do you also find other people who are stuck and how do you help them or the people who are stuck in lives? You know, maybe we are people in the audience. We're gonna say, oh, yeah, I'm stuck on something. I can't. I can't move. I paralyzed. Would you help them? How would you say right now, this mic, like, guys, for you, that you're listening?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah.

Speaker A: So can help you be unstuck. Okay.

Speaker B: First, I would say that it would have to come from that person to be like, okay, I'm stuck, and maybe I need help.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because, I mean, if it's not coming from the person itself, it would be very hard to help someone that doesn't want to be helped. So you want to reconcile with the idea of being stuck. The first thing is you can see it as a problem, or you can see it as a bug, or, uh, you can see it as a feature. And maybe being stuck is not a bug. Maybe being stuck, it's not functional, it's not comfortable, it's not fun, and it's not. It's not leading you to where you want to go at the pace you want to go at. But it's here for the. For a reason. So I would start with the idea like, okay, I'm, um. Okay, I'm stuck, but I'm safe and I'm stuck for a reason. Because there is something I need to see. There is something that needs to change, and I don't know what it is, but I'm going to find out. And whatever happened, I'm safe. And this is very mindset. Ish kind of thing.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because, like, you're stuck because you have to realize something. And until you haven't realized it, you're still going to be stuck. And there is a reason why you're stuck.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You don't know. Yeah. And you have to. To find people.

Speaker B: And most people at that time are very frustrated. Like. Like, f you. I gave you so much money to fix me. Give me the F answer. Like, fix it for me, please.

Speaker A: I'm stuck. What should I do? You can't tell them what to do. Right. It's like, yeah, but you stuck for a reason. Yeah, I can help you discover. Yeah, you stuck for a reason.

Speaker B: And then take a deep breath and. Yeah, but like, many people will be very frustrated at that time from hearing this from a coach because he's like, I'm stuck. But you don't understand. I'm stuck. Like, you need to help fix it.

Speaker A: And I think, I think you know those guys because you've been on that side, right? You've been also an entrepreneur, co founder and developer. So you know that frustration, like you're looking for some help in your life.

Speaker B: Uh, so, yeah, it's like m more than my share. Uh, and I think at every stage, at every stage of development, there is a new stage for you somewhere of being stuck. You just stuck with a heavier, uh, weight at the deeper level, whatever. Being stuck sometimes. So you don't want to be stuck. And there are ways to prevent being stuck. But the first thing about being stuck is that you see yourself as being stuck. Yeah, yeah, you see yourself as being stuck. And so you, you've been moving so fast or you've been forcing yourself in a way that was not meant to be and uh, something is wrong. And I know, I love this, the idea that for something to change and when you do want to do deep change, deep change requires courage, bravery and discomfort. And most of the time what you want is on the other side of this discomfort, of this fear. So what has to happen for you to change, what has to happen for you to change is maybe one of two possibilities. One is what you want. You love it so much that you're going to go through that fear or the pain you are experiencing right now has to be so heavy that you move your butt to do the things that would lead you to something new. So you, you need to be stuck because if you're not stuck, you're not moving. So you're going to create a bunch of problems so that you actually, you will eventually finally face it. And a good analogy for it is imagine we are, uh, we are doing a trek. So we are on the mountain and we go for a walk. And then at some point in time, you feel something in your feet is wrong. Like you, you have a pain in your, in your feet. In one of your foot. In one of your feet. And so what do we do? We stop and you remove the laces and you remove your shoe and then you check and there is a gravel m. So the pain you experience while walking is very useful because if you are not feeling the pain of the gravel, you're not removing the gravel. We Keep walking and 20 kilometers down the road, you no longer have a foot to complain about. This is gone. It's like to the damage.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: So the pain is actually a feature that helps you moving, but it's very hard to see it when you're actually in the pain. And so where a professional comes here is to help you be at ease with pain and be like you. Okay, it's okay. It's okay. You are going to be okay. And we going. We are going to figure it together. And there is nothing wrong about you. And.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, but sometimes you panic, right? Because you, you feel this pain and you're, like, stuck and you don't see the light, and you're like, how do you do, what do you do? Save me, you know, like, give me the answer, you know? And you panic. And I think the same when you code and you have all those errors, it's bugs, buggy everywhere. And you have that. This road. Red alert, you know, everywhere. Like, oh, my gosh, it doesn't compile. Do not compile. Do not compute. What should I do? And you panic. And so you search online. You search the answer everywhere. Sometimes you have to take a break and go back to the code and say, okay, let this step by step. Let's put this in a little chunk. And I think you know that. So, uh, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: After you wake up, you're like semicolon.

Speaker A: Um, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: It's just. You have a fresh pair of eyes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Sometimes it's more complex than semicolon, but forcing it is obviously not fixing it. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Sometimes. Exactly. So, like, to see this, this comparison between your. Your. Your past life and now this life, you know, of coaching. So do you see there's, um, one influencing the other. As an entrepreneur or a coach, when you're switching from the entrepreneur mindset and the coach mindset, how do you balance, you know, how do you switch from this? This is, Is there like an influence between the entrepreneur you are now because you launch things and the coach? Do you coach yourself sometimes? Or are you in the battle? Because we were talking about the battle previously.

Speaker B: We are all always in the bottle. We are all always in the bottle.

Speaker A: We are all in the bottle.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I want to surround myself with people I trust, and we can help me see when I'm in the bottle and help me read the sticker or, uh, hold the mirror for me. And I'm very lucky to have, um, those people around me and those people around you. They evolve as you grow and they diversify. Then I don't coach myself. I don't believe in this notion. I can actually, I coach myself. And I, I think that I can coach myself better by talking, talking to one of these chairs in front of me than some people giving the highest amount of money to the best coach in the world. Because I think it's part of like the way you talk to yourself. So I can actually create and deal with situation myself in a way that of course I was not able to do. But still I'm in the bottle like everyone. Mhm. And then, and then about like entrepreneur and coach, it feels like this, uh, or that. Question. So do you like balance? And I love reconciliation. Can you be like can the coaching support entrepreneurship? And entrepreneurship is actually a frame to express coaching. And the more I grow into my coaching and so there is the art of coaching and the business of coaching. And yeah, so that those are two pillars and they are different but at the same time they work together because you grow with your clients. So the way you create new clients helps you grow as uh, a coach and not only financially, you just like exposed to different things. So part of the entrepreneurship in my business is actually being a good coach. And part of becoming a good coach relies on taking care of my business. And so it's not this or that is this and that. It's more like this or that and this. So it's not this or that is this and that. Like business and coaching together and actually probably even like coaching through business and vice versa.

Speaker A: Yeah, but it's influencing, it's like, you know. Right. They leverage each one of us. Yeah. Sometimes like this idea of applying wheel. Like everything you create helps the other the next creation. And over and over or everything is related at a certain point and you connect the dots and everything gets reinforced the uh, piece of the puzzles. So uh, yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker B: Maybe one thing that comes to mind is that same like it's a realization I, I pay attention to more and more and more is that the more I grow into the art of coaching and the business of coaching, the more I tend to withdraw myself. So this is what I've shared from helping clients, but also the more I try to withdraw myself. So I am um, not the product. And ah, this is very hard to do when you are coaching because when you sell cars, the car you haven't built, the car you haven't designed the car you haven't crash, um, test the car. And so you can be emotionally not in a very good place. It's still the same car. You can test it, open it, check it, double check it. When you start say selling freelancing for instance, or services that you are very close to, then it's a little bit about you.

Speaker A: Yeah, you are the vacant, you are very close.

Speaker B: Yeah, you are very Close to. Are the vehicle or you are very close to the vehicle when you pour your soul into your product as a SaaS, uh, founder in the early, like in. For many founders that uh, are not really seasoned, the product is about them. So there is a lot of fear of rejection. So they're not going out of the building. They're not talking to users. Why? Because it's very more, it's more comfortable to stay in the building stage. Okay.

Speaker A: You're not your coach.

Speaker B: Start touching to their identity.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: And when you do coaching, there is no, there is no thing, There is nothing to protect me from what's happening.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's.

Speaker B: This is a tricky one. But still the more I grow into the art and business of coaching, the more I tend to see it still as a business and as a service that whatever is my state. Because I do have a life too, with the like, ups and down of a human life as everyone, like everybody and the. But the more I sit and the more I want to sit as a service, as if one of my, uh, uh, friend was like, think about it. As you are selling chairs, you are building chairs. Selling chairs so that I can actually draw a line.

Speaker A: That's a very good point, man. Because everybody, I love this idea of it's your identity. And we didn't scratch this, uh, identity concept, but I really love it because there's this ego because you project yourself. You know, you are not your product, you are not your service. And I think this is good to remind because no, we have all this, this mantra on social networks, say if you want to sell, people don't buy what you produce, don't buy what you give. But, uh, they buy who you are. No. And so you have to put your identity sometimes in the game at stake. Because people buy from a person, they don't buy what you buy. They also buy what's behind who the person is, who is the founder and stuff like that. So sometimes it's good to remind the people they are not the product, they are not the service. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And still they buy who you are. But still people will say only a portion of what you are. I'm not. I'm not my shirt, I'm not my hair, I'm not my glasses, I'm not my name. I am. And you are not. You aren't either. You are so much more than all of this.

Speaker A: What's an identity? Right.

Speaker B: Yes. We can do another episode only on man.

Speaker A: This is, this is a philosophical question. I love it. What's Identity. What makes you you, you? Is it the, the concept of everything? What's the mindset? What's. I love it. I love it. I'm talking about like personality. Sorry, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's not. Just to add to this. Like, um, Jeremy Coleman helped me see that the idea of like, this is a. You're there is a personal brand, but you are not the product. And whatever you say online or what you shop online, this is not, this is not you. It doesn't mean it's not authentic and true. But I'm not the same. I can be authentic all the time, but I can be authentic with you and I can be authentic online. I can be authentic with. On a date or I can be authentic with my besties or with my mother. But it's contextual authenticity. In all these different contexts, it's only a part of me who is showing up, because I'm not. I'm definitely not showing up the same way. And if anyone listening to this is doing that, there might be an issue. Like, you're not showing the same way. No matter how authentic you are, you're not showing up the same way with these different contexts. And it's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, it's good point because, uh, everybody talks about authenticity and what's authenticity, Right. And um, I think people don't question that concept enough. Like, what is authenticity? What's um, being authentic? You know, sometimes we talk about authentic leader, authenticity on social. But yeah, I think there's just too much hype on authenticity right now. So, yeah, I'm thinking out loud right now, but yeah, I was going to,

Speaker B: I think super important, authenticity. I was thinking also about vulnerabilities that is never far away. But you can be authentic and vulnerable. You don't have necessarily to wash your dirt clothes in public. It's like a literal French translation. You don't have to. You don't have to expand on everything in every given platform. So you're also responsible about what you share. It's only a portion of it. And it's okay. It's like a photography, a photography of an event. It's only a snapshot of one moment. So it imposes a perspective and it's still an authentic photography. Just one glimpse.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: you can play with that for hours.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. For hours. Like authenticity. What's the place of authenticity today in 2024? Sometimes people will over try to play this authenticity game and they overact on it and. Yeah, okay, next topic. Actually, that was nice because I I remembered a, uh, fun fact when we talked for the first time because you mentioned that you were way before, uh, Covid in Bali, and you're still in Bayou right now. Right? Am I wrong or.

Speaker B: I'm back in Bali. Yeah, I'm back in Bali these days. Yeah. And not settled, uh, not settled yet. But I decided to come back after a few years and I love the time I'm having here, uh, at the moment. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Changed a lot, right?

Speaker B: I guess it has changed a lot. Many things are still the same, but it has changed a lot.

Speaker A: And so you were there way before COVID and the Nomad lifestyle hype. And talking about Nomad style life is really fun fact because you were working with Peter Levels and we mentioned Peter Levels, uh, in this podcast, I think five, 10 times we have different guests. And of course, because, uh, you know, when you talk about anti hacking and when you talk about solopreneurs and stuff like that, definitely the guy is, um, in the conversation. Um, how did that environment influence you and your approach to building remote first businesses? You know, when you were back then? What is it?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, good memories, first of all. So really good memories. So I have just. I haven't worked with Peter Levels. I might have like, worked in the same environment and share a few open space, share a few beers or like parties and attend his talk in the same co working space. But it was an exciting time to be in Bali. And. And at that time there were only like, like, yeah, late 2016, 2017, and there were only probably two co working spaces in Bali. One in Hugo and one in, uh, in Canggu Dojo. And so it was, yeah, it was like, um, it was not that the pioneering time of remote and nomad life. It was. There were still like people involved, like maybe already five years in, but still it would be very different what than what you have today. Since COVID Are we allowed to say the word? Yeah, we can say the word because we say, yeah, okay. You know, um, I've heard some American podcast where they're like, just don't say it like, it's like really like this

Speaker A: is, um, uh, what it is.

Speaker B: And so what led me to Bali is I wanted to surf and work. And what I was actually already do, I was doing this already when I was in Paris. It's just like I would have my office in my apartment and then I would do jumps maybe in Morocco or in Canary island to go and surf and work for a few weeks, but never like with like a time zone difference. Like this one and for uh, such um, an extensive amount of time. And when I, I flew to Bali I was working on this project called Remote Mentors. And so I was interviewing, co working like co working founders, remote uh, companies and startups, freelancers and in, in different countries. And so that was an interesting way to actually connect with people because I would go somewhere and interview and set up the camera and have conversations which like very quickly connect you to people. It was an amazing time to, to be around especially for solo makers because like, like for me like remote work was already a given. I've been lucky enough to have one of my best friend and former housemate creating a uh, top notch French startup. And so when I was living in Paris I was, I had housemates and all the crew, they were all in Epitech and they were all like uh, developers. So Epitech is ah. A engineer. Um, like engineers.

Speaker A: Yeah. Or.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, and so I was exposed to. So they taught me how to code initially and they also exposed me to um, 37 signals because they were like Ruby on Rail developers. So they were exposed me to. Yeah. So they exposed me to the work of 37signals. And I was using Basecamp, uh, and Trello very early on and, and then reading books like. Such as Remote or Rework or A Year Without Pants. So Year Without Ben. I think the book uh, was issued in 2013 I think or something.

Speaker A: I don't know that one. Yeah, I don't remove.

Speaker B: It's a, it's a, it's a fun one. He's a guy who, he went to uh, work for automatic, so WordPress, the creators of WordPress. And for one year he was working remotely with one of the product team of WordPress. And so it's called A Year Without Pens because like they were like living in, in. In like um, in a short. In short, in um. In shorts. Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, awesome.

Speaker B: So I was exposed to this and the remote first idea and my clients were already. I already had clients back in 2013, 2014 that I would never meet with and freelancers I would collaborate with that. Yeah we would not meet. But the cool thing about like this time and Peter levels in this scene that you would see and I also, I really specifically can remember one guy called Andre. He was a um, A Ukrainian guy and, and he worked, he worked along Peter and then Peter really helped me like kick things. And then he became maker of the Year on Product hunt.

Speaker A: Oh yeah.

Speaker B: And then he was making a living from being an. In the uh, in the hacker from that time because people were exposed to other people. So you have, you have guys like, such as Peter coming and then other guy coming, like, okay, I'm like, I'm selling developers and I'm, um, doing calls and totally shifting. And you would see it happening before your eyes because you would see those people coding at night together, and you would have looked those people making launches. They would sell courses and, uh, they would launch courses, like high, high six figures without even building the course. So they would, you know, and this concept is like back in 2016, 2017, with 2024. So for us, like, many of those things seems like a given. But like, um, in these days, what's different? I'm talking like, old. I'm talking like old, old. Back in the days.

Speaker A: Back in the day before those, you know, different. You know, but, you know, many people back to, uh, the coaching part, you know, like, we have freelancers and entrepreneurs, you know, in this podcast, and sometimes they struggle to push for personal and business growth plateau. You know, they just reach this plateau. I don't know. Uh, if you have any advice, give them. Like, if I feel adverse, hit this ceiling. How would you, um, have them say, you know, growth is not. Thank you. Okay, let's put that. I will put the link in the description. Guys, if you have growth plateau, go another like.

Speaker B: Or someone else you feel that could help you, but go talk to someone then. Um, pretty. No, I'm pretty serious about it. Like, if you feel like what we're sharing resonates and you want to have a conversation, then come to me. And if you think you need someone else, then go see someone else. Or, uh, but get another perspective from someone and slow down and accept help just for an hour or two or even more. Accept that you are stuck. And I think this is one of the biggest issues for solo entrepreneurs and, and makers and SaaS founders, especially males in their 20s. Why? Because we are so used to do things ourselves, we want to DIY everything.

Speaker A: Yeah. So.

Speaker B: So. No, no, but don't worry. Like, uh, my. My girlfriend. My girlfriend is coaching me. I have buddies. Those people are too close to you to help you properly, and they are not equipped to, uh, actually help you see what you don't want to see. And so, so many people, yeah, so many people refuse the idea of coaching because they are so good in what they do, which is figure it out, watch YouTube videos. There is a lot of value into this until you are in the bottle. It doesn't work for every situation.

Speaker A: Exactly. Once you're in the puzzle. So for all the people in the bottle, guys, send us a message.

Speaker B: And, uh, you don't have to feel stuck. You don't have to feel stuck to look for a coach. You can also look for external, uh, like for such kind of conversation just to go somewhere else. Or in a more elegant way. You don't have, like, coaching is not about, like, you know, like, uh. How do you call that? Chiropractor. I'm not a. We are not chiropractors. Just here to understand people. Yes, good point.

Speaker A: And for freelancers who want to become like, you know, the top one performer, what skills or mindsets is essential to focus on?

Speaker B: The top 1% is, uh, the term I coined just for, uh, catching people's attention. Because I think it's a magnetic idea. It's either you want it or you're like, it's too elitist and you refuse it. It's kind of a filter. And so maybe one of the ideas, the first idea is, are you curious about what you could achieve and what you could do? And when we are talking about this idea of, like, being the top 1% freelancer or, like, just living a life of like, very fulfilled, elegant, where you also have, like. We're not trading, we're not trading financial success for freedom. The idea is like, Mike, you want both. If you want to have like, the money and the girl and the sex or the man, of course. And, uh, playing piano and, and, and there is a place where you can do all of that. Maybe not all at once, maybe not today, but there is a place where you can make this work. Can you repeat the question, please? Because I want to make sure I'm, um, spot on. And, uh.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, no problem.

Speaker B: Like, I lost my train of thought.

Speaker A: No, no worry. For the top one freelancers or the top one performer, what skills or mindsets should they focus on?

Speaker B: Um, yeah. So. Thank you. So this is same direction is you want to, you want to ask yourself. The question is. Yeah, I think that that's a quote from Bob Proctor is, um, the question is not are you worthy of your goals? But are your goals worthy of you?

Speaker A: Are your goals worthy of you?

Speaker B: And so we want to look and to be curious about the goals you are setting for yourself. Are they high enough to motivate you, to give you this stimulation?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And the goals you set up a year ago or, uh, five years ago, you might have achieved or you might not. But a vision has to be useful. So if it's useful for you to reach for the top one person, then Go for it. Mhm. And, and, and the first thing is, do you want it and are you ready to feel worthy of it? Because most of the time when we're talking about performance or like going to a way, like a different level of success, the first thing is like, it's, it's for others. I'm not, I'm pretty much, I'm not worthy of it.

Speaker A: We are afraid of the light.

Speaker B: We are afraid of the light.

Speaker A: Yeah. We prefer the shadow. Right. Comfortable. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: No pressure, no, uh, spotlight. So you know what you mean, so. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I understand it. Yeah.

Speaker B: And no pressure. And at the same time, there is a price to everything. So when you are, when you are tuning down your light, there is suffering. If your vision is reduced so that you are sure you can go after it and talk about it in public or talk about it to people who have been, who have known you for 20 years and I have, um, a certain idea of you, then you are limiting it to prevent suffering. But you're trading suffering for another kind of suffering, which is dimming down your light. And at some point in time, you, you will feel this gravel in your shoe. And you, you don't have to do something about it. You can drink it down, you can like develop any kind of strategies to avoid it, but there is also a possibility where you can go for it and it's, it's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah. And sometimes you're also, uh, afraid of the lights. Not because it puts you, you under pressure, but also because it puts other under pressure and you are afraid to, but others in the shadow. So you prefer to put you in advance in the shadow and say, no, I'm not gonna take too much place because the others will be, you know, not jealous, but stuff like that, you know, like they want to be seen too. And you're like, okay, I don't want to make pain the others, I don't want to make the others suffer. So I will just shut up and I will be quiet so that I don't take too much space.

Speaker B: So yeah, indeed, but indeed this is true. And I think this is also egoistic. So we think it's a beautiful thing to do to tune down the light so we don't take too much space. And people, we don't cast a shadow on others. But it's not, I don't cast a shadow on anyone. You are not casting a shadow on anyone by showing up, you actually giving people the opportunity of being with you in a more truthful version of you, you are, do you allow me to talk a little bit about what you are doing right now.

Speaker A: Just. Just do it. No problem.

Speaker B: Because I feel it's a perfect exam. But I'm like, uh, I want you to. I'm like, yeah, asking first and like, brace. But what you are doing right now, you are like, you're picking up the mic, you're showing up, and as a result, what is happening, you are giving others a place for. To express their own voice.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: And I think if you were not doing it for whatever reason that you don't want to cast a shadow or not be too much in the light, you will. This would be like this. It looks like altruistic because, yeah, I'm a nice person. I don't cast a shadow on anyone. And not talking about you, I'm talking about myself too. And everyone can feel concerned, but actually this is egoistic because we are preventing others from experiencing your work, your creativity or generosity. And this is a problem.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's a problem. Because you have to shift this mindset of win lose to win win. If you have lights, you can share the light with others. And the opposite people can also share. And so win win. Like you have to put the light on the others, and the others will put the light on you. So I think it's, um, When. When. If you have this reciprocity, right? Sometimes you don't have reciprocity, so provided

Speaker B: they want to receive it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But when you show up, when you don't show up, you also disempower the person from making a decision. So if I decide not to show up, because I will cast a shadow from person A or person B, what am I doing is I'm making. I'm actually. I'm, um. Um, I'm putting. I'm m. Putting m. The decision on them so I can blame them for me not showing up, which is cowardice. And also I'm removing from them the possibility and the power of decision their autonomy. Because if I was showing up or if I'm showing up, I give them autonomy and I give them the power to actually be in the light or not. And this is about them, not about you or not about me or not about anyone. If they don't want the light or if it's too much, they are not ready, it's okay. And I can create a different environment that will support my growth. And if they want it, then more often than not, what's happening when we are showing up with bravery is that we also give others the authorization to do the Same when I'm setting up limit and I'm um, like this is not okay. And this is happening in also different places in life. When you think about, when you think about sex, for instance. So sometimes like most of the time my clients come for business but more often than not we have like the conversation about relationships or sex.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: When some of the two partners is not expressing their needs or desires. I'm not talking necessarily about expressing all your fantasies, but expressing someone I want to change or someone I want to experiment. Something I feel if I'm not talking about it, I'm not giving power to my partner to play with it. Um, because I'm making the decision for both of us, but also I remove the possibility from her or from him to express our own needs, our own wants, our own desires. So by actually speaking up what I want and what I need to others, I free them because they can do the same.

Speaker A: Good point. Yeah, indeed. It's reciprocity. You give the others the right to express and to take a decision. Got it. Awesome. Good point. All, uh, right, I had a couple of questions about coaching and then we'll go slowly through the head. Did you see that uh, the role of coaching changed in the recent years, you know, with um, Covid and then the war and then all this. You know, the tech market is also bit chaotic for the moment with the AI. Have you seen anything in the coaching space that changed?

Speaker B: I looking at things from like a social or a macroeconomic point of view and analysis is not my main strength. I uh, tend to look at coaching maybe with one conversation at a time and this will not go anywhere. I mean m AI can complement uh, coaching, that's one thing, but coaching in itself, I mean the idea, it's not coaching, it's asking questions so that you can help people grow. I believe that for at least our generation or the next, this is not going anywhere because it's so fundamental. I think it will only there is al already a sophistication of the market. So the thing with coaching is like there are very low barrier to entry. Anyone can be like, hey, I'm a coach. No barrier to entry, barrier to success. Whether it's in the art of coaching, on the business of coaching. This is a different ah game. This is. I mean if you want to make money quickly, don't go for it. There are other ways. It's a beautiful pursuit, but it's not an easy and a fast one. For sure though it can be a long lasting one because you only improve and improve and improve. And it's like the creator economy or the knowledge economy. It's like there is, I can give it to you, I still have it, and you can give it to others, and I still have it and you still have it. And so that's, that, that's a cool, cool thing about it. And I think I see the growth into the art of coaching as pretty much exponential because the better you are, the higher leverage you bring and the um, higher quote unquote level your client becomes. And so as a coach, you grow from your clients and the challenges they bring to you and you, you get able to tackle maybe, I don't know, I, I, I do things these days in 15 minutes that used to take me two hours. And there are, um, things I no longer do because there is not enough leverage and we're not having fun doing it. And so there are other people qualified to do that at that level. So I see coaching are uh, something that will be more and more adopted because we are, we are past the pioneering period, uh, and people are talking about it. So yes, we, we see, we have this prison with this prism where we see so many like, coaches popping up. It's like when you buy, ah, a new car and you like, suddenly you see the same car everywhere, but still there is a lot of room, There is a lot of room in, in this market. There is a sophistication so like people can be skeptical. We see people mocking also, like there is a lot of humor on coaching, which I actually love.

Speaker A: Coach. Yeah.

Speaker B: Or David Tapos, you see, which is a very nice, very nice part.

Speaker A: I'll share it later on, but okay.

Speaker B: You know David Larosh?

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, okay.

Speaker B: And there is a, uh, guy on Instagram and he is David Tapos, which is empty your pocket, literally. Literal translation. I hope this is okay. Sharing this on the podcast. I, it's, I think no problem. Yeah, it's fun and it doesn't discredit the, the business of anyone. It's just fun. And humor is one way to dismiss the possibility of coaching because like coaching again, like this is something that ask of you. Vulnerability, authenticity, courage and commitment.

Speaker A: Indeed, indeed.

Speaker B: But we see like creators and entrepreneurs and leaders sharing their uh, more and more about their, the, the challenge they, they go through and they speak up and so they share about their burnouts, they share about their failures, they share about, about bankruptcy or whatever, like kind of like hardships. So people share more about the, the hardships and they also share about the solutions among which more often than not, you See that? They got help. Mhm. So that's for coaching. And I think like, if you want to live a life where many things are taken care of for you, you can order everything online and you can, people can shop at your door and deliver whatever you want and you have AI and you have YouTube and you have access to so much knowledge, then the power. I think this is a relationship, uh, one relationship between AI and coaching. Also this is about asking questions. I works to the extent you are capable of prompting it, which is asking questions.

Speaker A: Indeed.

Speaker B: So you want to get good at asking questions. And one way to get good at asking questions is to practice asking questions.

Speaker A: Yeah. Run the podcast and be.

Speaker B: And be. Yeah, and be. Ask and also make the experience of being under the questions. Whether you are, uh, a podcast guest, uh, are you a podcast host, or when you do the experience of coaching, what happens? But you, you probably know that firsthand. But what happened when you do coaching is that the more you do it, you get used to the pattern and to the questions. And then you can also apply by doing peer to peer exercise and then you start incorporating it and sometime you are able to catch yourself refusing one idea and stopping and questioning it way faster than you would do before. Um, yeah, okay, okay, I'm wrapping it up.

Speaker A: I'm going to ask you like, end

Speaker B: of the answer is like very, very awkward way of like, okay, I'm stuck.

Speaker A: I was going to ask you about coaching. Like we, we talked previously, like how did you transition? What, what made you change? And so on. But what has been one of the most challenging transformations you faced personally? Um, how did it shape you as a coach?

Speaker B: I think I, I've spent a great amount of time in my life changing. It's like in high school I've changed classes after one month from scientific to art, and then I've changed from cooking to business school to tech to whatever. So I, I think I spent like the last 25 years changing, changing, changing, changing. When I started doing coaching, I was like, this is something I could do for 25 years. So difference. But I'm um, I'm um, not getting younger. So it's also probably coming together with growing up, finally growing up amongst the. I, uh, think you grow from the hardship. You grow from the gravel in the shoe. And sometimes it's a gravel, sometimes it's a fucking big rock mountain. Yeah.

Speaker A: In the shoe.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. One definitely is. I've ah, gone through a, um, very difficult breakup after 11 years of relationships. Relationship. Also this is what led me to Bali and to creating a new kind of life. Okay, so that's one I found myself also. But I. I always wanted to have this kind of a very close to a monk experience where I withdraw from life. And I had the version of that which was. Which was unforeseen is when Covid hit. I. I was in Ukraine at that time in Odessa. Ah. And initially was meant to be three weeks. But long story short, I spent 11 months in Odessa. And in these 11 months, nine months I spent living on my own in Ukraine. In. In Ukraine, I don't speak Russian. I don't speak Ukrainian. And so I would code, I would coach. I would start showing up on YouTube videos as a guest and doing things like this. I would play guitar and I would train at the gym. And so I had a pt, a personal trainer, which I wanted to have. It's just like I wanted to have that. It didn't. Just didn't see that he would have to. I would have to be on my own for nine months. So I spent nine months on my own, which is kind of a maybe a reborn situation in a way. You know, like this is a very symbolic number which I did not pick up. It just happened to be this way. So it's very hard to be for such a long period on your own. But it gave me the opportunity to try out uh, things that I would have probably, I would. Could not have try and. And achieve if I was living the life I was before.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like with more social or relationship.

Speaker A: Yeah. I like this idea of retrieving like a monk, you know, taking. Sometimes it's like a ritual, you know, for next phase, you know, like a cocoon and then you become butterfly. You know, I like this idea of uh. Uh, I think it's also in ah, you know, this idea of you going to mountain and then, you know, you have this in several, um, um, civilizations you have to have this ritual. Like you go in, uh, the mountain or somewhere in isolation and then you come back to the village. Then.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, the symbolic idea is very nice. The idea of a retreat is very nice. But also I don't want people to. It's not that I'm. I don't want people to interpret it as go and withdraw from life for nine months to fix things up. Because this is not a recommendation. I mean like, I did it and I see the value of it afterward. I would not recommend it to most people. Maybe a few, but not most people. The monk mode can be a nice solution for some, for a period. But monk Mode can be very addictive and very toxic. So yeah, beware with that. Like manipulating explosives. You want to pay attention to it or it works.

Speaker A: Don't do this at home.

Speaker B: But I mean it's like, like Monk mode. Monk mode. That works. But it, there is a price to it. And also you want to know how to get out of monk mode afterward. Because Monk mode, this is not a life. This is not a life. I mean it can be a life for a few months or a few years, but I don't think this is living. And when one of my friend asked me it's living, then she asked me like, what did you take from this experience of living on your own in Ukraine? Like among which experience I would try. I spent like 28 days without ejaculation. Yeah, I do. I would do experience like this or like whatever.

Speaker A: Experimentation. Yeah, this is.

Speaker B: But say, yeah, but this is also is um, but I remember this is nothing to do with actually my answer. But it, it had happened. It happened when I was there. And she asked me, what did you take from this experience of being nine months on your own in Ukraine? And I was like, it's kind of same. It's a double edged word. There are two sides. One is, it's is the most m important uh, experience of my life. And I would recommend it to everyone because we're not used to be alone and we are alone. There was a lot of suffering involved, a lot of tears. Like, like I was. I've been really like feeling my, feeling my emotion to a point. That can be frightening sometimes. But I had to go through that. And part of it makes me who I am and help me do my job today because when my clients are feeling things, I'm not afraid of it. And so one part is like wonderful, I'm blessed and I'm very grateful for that. And the other part was like, I don't wish it to anyone. Okay. Because it was so hard.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's um, yeah, dedicated approach, you know, because. Yeah, exactly. You can't generalize things. So. Yeah, you mentioned it's not living, uh, the monk mode. You know, what's living for you? What's good living. It's a good life.

Speaker B: Maybe one way to approach, approach this when, when you stop asking the question.

Speaker A: That's awesome.

Speaker B: And of course I could expand on everything I want to do achieve experience. But in the end I think like, so there is this guy I met in the sauna the other day and he had. We were, we were talking about our tattoo so he asked me about my tattoo. You read about it? Yeah.

Speaker A: Seen it?

Speaker B: Yeah. And then he asked about m. My tattoo. And then I asked about his tattoo. And funnily enough, like, both of our tattoos were kind of like, um, thick, like initiations, uh, stories. But there was this very peculiar tattoo he had on his forearm. And the tattoo was a present. Like a present box when you give someone a present and it's wrapped up in a nice paper with a ribbon. So he had this tattoo. And what's the meaning of this? And the meaning of this is it's a present. And, um, are present and the present is the present. So the. The only thing that exists is the present. So we can. We can talked about yesterday, and we can fix ourselves and heal and that's fine. And we can project so that we have a direction. But in the end, are we present? Are you present? Am I present? Am, uh, I. Am, uh, I enjoying the present of being present? And so I think that. And then if I expand on this, then a meaningful life is a meaningful life when you stop asking the question because you are present.

Speaker A: I love it. I really love it. I love that answer. Thank you, man. I love. I really love it. It's, uh, it's a cake. Thank you. You know, I always ask this question, like, what's a meaningful life? And how would you define success? I always ask those two questions because this is how you. You try to understand what kind of person do you have in front of you? What do they value? So maybe I'm going to ask you. What success for you? What do you value in life? If you have to name a few words.

Speaker B: I value connection. I value connection. Deep connection. It doesn't have to be deep all the time. We can have like, light connection. And it's beautiful too. I value freedom. And freedom is not necessarily having many options and flying business class and. And dating whoever you want to date and. And making as much money as you want and having so many options. Freedom is not necessarily. Actually, it's not. It's not this at all. Freedom is all free. Are you. How free are you? Of like, we're actually worrying and being present so that you can be present. Do you have like or, uh, you have so many. Much so many interferences because you are running somewhere and you are not experiencing the presence. And so there is a lot of the freedom. There is freedom in the way you talk to yourself and the way you see the world. And I'm not going to explain more because it would be too long, but freedom and Then I think one of, uh, the thing I value most is actually not the thing I value most is curiosity. Because I think that you cannot be curious and be judgmental. So when you have a pain in your foot and you are curious about it, you can deal with it. When you feel stuck and you are curious, you can deal with it. If you are judgmental, uh, oh, I should not be stuck, or it should be easy, you are judgmental. But if you are curious, you can look at things without a preconceived idea, you can be open to solution, and you are not putting pain on top of the pain. You are not like, uh, oh, my feet hurts and you shouldn't hurt. So I'm. I'm fucking pissed because my fucking feet hurts. No. Yeah, you would be like, my feet hurts. What I want, what is it? I'm not saying it should be comfortable, but curiosity. So it's curiosity toward ourselves. Like, personally, I'm more curious about myself. What's going on? What do I want? What could I do? What is the gap where, uh, or what is. I could create leverage. If you don't. If you don't curious about it, you can't find it. So curiosity. And it's also curiosity toward, like, toward others. Because same. If you are curious about the person in front of you or even like the person in another country, if you are curious, you are not judgmental. You are welcoming the idea that there is a difference and you can connect. Yeah, I love, um, So I really believe curiosity is like something to be cultivated inside people, inside children, in relationship, in couples, in businesses, in teams, in. In pretty much everywhere. I would like.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love this idea. Um, never thought about curiosity about. You can't be curious and judgmental. So this is mind blowing for me. And this is true. This is true because when you're curious, you. It's like the philosopher, you know, it finds everything's a curiosity. It's like, why does things happen? But we have this new sparkling curiosity, like, with a positive vibe. Like, why is that, like, thing, you know, you can't see the world? Like, it's like, you know, um, something in the world happening. You would say it shouldn't happen like that. But sometimes you can say, wow, is it happening? Like it's really happening like that? Or why is it happening like that and you're curious about it and you keep smiling about, like, why. I want to know the root reasons and the joy of finding, um, the reason why it's becoming. Yeah, I totally rely on that. All right, we Are. Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker B: Thank you for stopping me. But it's like it's saying when you. When you build products, you want to be curious, and you can welcome user feedback and bugs in a painful and judgmental way. Like it should not happen. Maybe it should happen because you need to deal with your depth, your, Your, uh, some of the features and, or the way you communicate together. And if you deal with it from a curious perspective, it can be very useful. Now, at some point in time, you don't want to be only useful and pull all the strings. You want to also sometimes focus and make decisions. But curiosity is a gift and can find space in so many different areas.

Speaker A: Sometimes you have to put aside the ego and see, it happened like that. And users are using this like that. So don't think you're smarter than them. This is how they do it. It's like, uh, also an investment. New people think they can time the market. They can think they can pick the right stocks at the right moment. And you can't pick the market. You can't beat the market. At some point, you're not smarter than all the others of the market. You are also trading. So sometimes you need humility and say, okay, Stay humble, stay curious and say, okay. It's happening like that. It is what it is. Deal with it. Also, when you're an entrepreneur, you can't beat the market. You're not smarter if the idea doesn't work, if there's no product market fit, it's not because you're smarter and you're too in advance sometimes, yes, that's what we say. But sometimes because you are too in advance and you have to recognize you are too in advance. So. Yep. Humidity. All right, so I have closing questions, so try to answer them without overthinking. Okay, so, um, you ready?

Speaker B: Gone.

Speaker A: All right. The questions you wish you wished I asked, but I didn't.

Speaker B: What's my favorite position?

Speaker A: What is.

Speaker B: I haven't said I would answer this. Should I expand or like, just like I'm. I'm just answering the question and we move on to the next question.

Speaker A: It's kind of, uh, you can answer, then we move on. But if you feel that it needs some explanation, some details, you can go.

Speaker B: But it's, um. I think there is a lot to learn in the way we deal with relationship and also sex, and we very rarely talk about it. And yeah, it's, um. I'm not saying it's a place for exploration in this podcast. It's just like an invitation maybe to Also look at that part of our lives, ah, with curiosity as a place to grow and that can carry on in the way we collaborate in teams or inside, in the, in the business world. But that's all I'm stopping here.

Speaker A: All right. What people don't know about you, I

Speaker B: believe, um, hopefully there are many things people don't know about me, including the favorite position. I think the idea that comes to mind is the idea of um, being a paradox. But it's again like me talking about me. It's kind of like awkward. Yeah. I been living my life pretty much as a paradox sometime and, and it's okay. You can be awkward and have like uh, many different uh, facet. Many different uh, aspect and, and some of them like at one point of my life I was wearing, wearing a, uh, expensive Varney shoes and cufflinks and I was teaching like people how to build very complex Excel spreadsheet for finance in the top business school. And a few years before that I would have like blue dreadlocks and many piercings and I was screaming. I would be screaming new metal hardcore. Those are like. It's really hard to. This is a paradox, but also it's an evolution. And I think you can be, you can be many different things in a life and it's very fun. It's not necessarily very comfortable, but it could be fun to change until you find yourself and you remove. You don't need the shoes, you don't need the cufflinks, you don't need the piercings. And you can be different things, not necessarily together but one after the other or one from the other. And it's a fun game to play.

Speaker A: Okay, where are you in five years and what do you do?

Speaker B: So by bracelet. Yeah, um, in five years I'm a dad. I'm a, ah, lover to my wife. I'm a great, great son. I'm a great brother. I'm a best friend to my friends. I'm an athlete, I'm uh, an artist, I'm a creator. And I keep uh, I keep, I keep creating.

Speaker A: Man, this is ah, awesome. There are so many sub questions to that like what's a good brother? What's a good friend? But this it is. I'll go to the other questions but uh, yeah, we could do another podcast. Just. Yeah, the things we put in handling on pending. All right, um, who are some of your favorite creators or thinkers influencing your work?

Speaker B: There are many names that come to mind, but where I want to go to is uh, my clients. Yeah. Because I do work with creators. And when I see themselves showing up and, and showing up at whatever version of what they want to show up, whatever ways they want to show up, but I see them showing up and also, um, some they are evolving and they are asking more from me. So there are m. The former clients from where I see the gap and I'm like, whoa. And they're also my current clients, which are, uh, the people I'm in conversation at the very moment. And then the more I do this, the more I realize that they are constantly requiring me to adapt and to adjust and to change and the more influence I. The more the biggest influence I have is from, from them because it's feedback and uh, they are facing things that some of the time you've seen before, but sometime it's different or it's a different shape or there is more emotion involved or more chaos. More. Yeah. Higher stakes. M. And so. Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker A: I love it. Yeah. Because you work with them. That's so cool, man. Your favorite applications or podcast?

Speaker B: Favorite application of podcast or podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Two things that come to mind. One, uh, app. I, um, one app that I love this day called Endel. It's very simple. It's an app, you know, Endel, E N D E L. It's just.

Speaker A: Oh, take it up.

Speaker B: It's just an app with soundscape that I could listen to and I could. Would help me nap or it would me help me focus or it would help me meditate and meditate and. And you could put a timer on it and you would block the other apps and another one. But I'm like, um, I'm, I'm. I'm trying to be witty. Here is pen, uh, and paper.

Speaker A: Pen and paper.

Speaker B: Pen and paper. Yeah, Pen and paper. You want to. Yeah. A pen and a journal. Yeah, I think that's a, uh, very good. It's a very interesting application that is sometime undervalued.

Speaker A: Mhm. Okay. Do you have books that had significant impact on your philosophy or business?

Speaker B: Yes. Which one? So, yeah, so in my top five, one of them I think is top five or top three. Is the Creative Act A way of being.

Speaker A: You.

Speaker B: You have you read it?

Speaker A: My library. But I didn't read it yet.

Speaker B: Okay. Okay, so maybe, uh, maybe after this you will, uh, you will just have a look. Because the beauty about this book is you, you don't have to go from, from, from start to finish. You can just uh, have like two pages. And so this book, the Creative Act, A Way of Being is a book by, um, A gentleman called Rick Robin. And Rick Robin is one of the most influential music, uh, producer. And he's worked with people ranging from Red Hot Chili Peppers to Beastie Boys to Metallica to Adele.

Speaker A: Oh, nice.

Speaker B: Like. Like so many people. And the book is really. It's a compilation of maybe it's a little bit like the almanac by. Fine. It's not the Almanac from. From Navaravican. It's not by Nova Ravican. But it's kind of the same. Kind of.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker B: And it brings together creativity, spirituality, philosophy. M. And it's full of wisdom. It's full of wisdom.

Speaker A: I'm gonna start reading it. Bought it long time ago when we had this coaching. And then I was, um. I'm stuck right now with David Merida. So that's what I'm reading right now. Um, other books. Sorry I interrupt you.

Speaker B: Other books.

Speaker A: If you want to share. Otherwise we can skip to the next question.

Speaker B: This is speaking one.

Speaker A: All right. That one is okay. No problem.

Speaker B: Another one. Another one. Which shift me. Shifted my pers. My perception around. Like, making money is the science of getting rich. And it's a. It's a very small book. Like, I think you can go. If you listen to it, it's like two hours.

Speaker A: Okay, well, all right.

Speaker B: And it's a book by. I think the. The name of the author is Wallace Waters or Walter Wallace Waters. And it's a book from 1840, I think, or so, or 1870. It's in the public domain these days. But it's like, again, like, full of wisdom. And it's kind of like. So some people are very, um, are pushing away this idea of, um, the power of attraction. But it's actually kind of an. The great grandfather of the ideas of the power of attraction and manifestation and things like this. But it's. It's also very down to earth.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And. And easy. And easy read.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker B: Two hours.

Speaker A: Thanks, man. Thank you, man. All right, do you have a critical quote or baseline?

Speaker B: I'm smiling because I tend sometimes to drop so many quotes and like, it's like just like ridicule to have so many quotes in a. In a.

Speaker A: In a.

Speaker B: In the. Uh. So. Okay, one more. Remember your future.

Speaker A: Awesome. Okay, uh, next people you'd like to hear in the podcast.

Speaker B: I'm going to be witty again. I'm thinking about you. I think, uh, we should do an episode where we can we get to hear your voice and your perspective. I think it would be super cool.

Speaker A: You know what, man? I'll write this down. I'll do it. I'll do an episode just with you, me and the mic in solo. All right, thanks, man. Good point. Where can our listeners connect with you?

Speaker B: The best way to connect would be on LinkedIn.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah, you can look for Charlot Alizar. The name is.

Speaker A: I'll put your link in the description.

Speaker B: Put a link? Yeah. Feel free to reach out. Feel free to send a message. I try to. I mean, I answer everyone. Just sometime I take. Can take some time. But, uh, I'll get back to you.

Speaker A: So, man, that was the last question. So I wanted to thank you again for your time, for your insight, for, uh, everything. Your openness, your transparency, your authenticity. It's, uh, always a pleasure, man, to talk to you. You've been a nice mentor. So looking forward how this relationship will evolve in the time. So thank you again for everything you've done, man.

Speaker B: Likewise, man. I really appreciate being here and, uh, and sharing. Sharing, uh, all like you, sharing all of this with us and, um, and having me really very grateful for it. Thank you.

Speaker A: Have a nice day.

Speaker B: You too, man. Ciao.