Episode 244: Practice the Power of Curiosity and Learning from Others with Taylor Leddin-McMaster

Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership Lab podcast, episode number 244. I'm Patrick Leddon, and I have the honor of being your host in the Leadership Lab. This podcast is for leaders, and that means this podcast is for each and every one of you. Because it doesn't matter if you're leading a team of just one person, yourself, a larger team, or an entire organization, you are a leader. You know, I truly believe that we can learn lessons about leadership from a wide range of sources. And it's with this in mind that that I invite guests to join me in a Leadership Lab. Today's a special treat. I'm joined by my niece, Taylor Ledden McMaster. Since the age of 17, Taylor has been working as a freelance writer for a number of national outlets and has been featured by Thrive Global as a successful woman in journalism. She's the editor in chief of the Tidbit, where she's had the pleasure of interviewing entertainment icons including Tony Danza and Melora Hardin. Believe me, I asked her about those today. And. And she's also published books. Her first book came out called the time capsule in 2019, and it was featured across a number of media outlets. I kept seeing it coming up again and again in my feed. She's also the life editor at the Daily Journal and the editor of the Journal's magazine, Lifestyles of Kankakee County. She recently published a new book called Getting it Done. Organizing your personal and professional life for optimal growth. In our conversation today, we talk about career curiosity and capturing the story. Trust me, all three of these things are important to you in your world. When you think about your career, are you following your passions? Are you following the dollar? What are you following, and where is it leading you to curiosity, the importance of asking good questions of other people to understand a bit more what's going on in your boss's mind, your customer's mind, your team members mind, whoever it might be, that you can actually grow through the process and. And lastly, capturing the story as Taylor shares with us. Everyone has a story, and sometimes when we capture it, it will teach us so much. I encourage you grab something to write with. Sit back, prepare to take some notes as Taylor and I get together in the leadership. Hey, Taylor Ledden McMaster, welcome to the Leadership Lab.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here.

Speaker A: It's an honor to have you here. You know, it's funny, a lot of times when I'm doing the podcast, I'll talk to the guest a little bit, maybe days in advance. Or even 15 minutes leading up to the conversation. And at that point I get to know him a little bit and feels, you know, a comfortable conversation. Sometimes I have people on the podcast that I've known for a while, maybe I've worked with them in the past, but I can literally say I've known you your entire life.

Speaker B: This is very true.

Speaker A: You are the first leaden that I've had on the podcast, other than my wife who's been on the podcast, but you're the first. Your aunt, My wife has been on the podcast, but you're the first niece or anybody from that generation on the podcast. And I'm just excited to have a conversation with you. Um, I told them a little bit about your bio on the front end, but if you wouldn't mind, Taylor, like, imagine we're just bumping into each other. We're gonna have a chat, like we're gonna do right now. What would be a couple things you'd be like, oh, I'd like these people to know these couple things about me.

Speaker B: Yeah. So my main gig, if you want to call it that, is I'm, um, a reporter and editor for a local paper. I live, uh, just south of Chicago in Kankakee, Illinois. Um, so it's one of the few local papers that still continue to go in this, ah, ever changing world of media. Um, so I really enjoy that. And, um, yeah, I'm married. I have four animals. Um, I'm going to be 30 in a month. So I'm just kind of learning how to adapt to that. That's a big change for me. I'm excited about it though. And, um, I love to read. That's a little bit about me.

Speaker A: Have you always had a passion for reading and writing?

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, the reading has always kind of come and gone in terms of my frequency with which I do it. But, um, writing has always been a const. Whether it's, um, just list making or writing stories or interviewing my friends at sleepovers when I was in elementary school, which, um, makes sense for what I do now. Um, very inquisitive person. But, um, yeah, writing has always been part of, part of me.

Speaker A: What do you think? You said you're a very inquisitive person. Um, we often talk on the podcast over the course of the last few years with guests who talk about the importance of curiosity. And, uh, I guess I'm just curious from your perspective, like being an inquisitive person, how has that served you well and what might the leaders on, um, listening to the podcast benefit from knowing about maybe being a little bit more curious.

Speaker B: I think it's very important to be curious, because if you're not, then you're stagnant and you're kind of complacent. And that doesn't keep you growing. It keeps you in one place. And if you're not willing to ask questions, you're not willing to learn, and that is. That's kind of the end of the road in my mind. So being curious is always good. I mean, obviously, there's curiosity that killed the cat. There's a little. There's a fine line between being nosy and curious. But being curious is, um, something that I think is a good attribute for people.

Speaker A: So I'm willing to question things. Yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking about, um, you know, where you are in life. You said, you know, you're turning 30 soon, so you, you know, you've been in the workforce for a while, and, uh, there's a lot of people listening to the podcast that I know from having come out of my classroom at Bandy over the years are probably in a very similar kind of age group as you. Um, I'm curious about, like, your career path. Right. You've kind of stepped into a tough career path in regards to. There's a lot of door knocking to say, please, you know, use my work. Here's my portfolio. Please let me put some stuff on site. Or, um, like you mentioned the industry, the newspaper industry. She's gone through a lot, right? It's a tough industry.

Speaker B: How did you.

Speaker A: How do you balance in your mind the idea of saying, you know what? I'm just going to go into the safer industry, the safer job, the safer whatever. Or saying, you know, I'm going to do what I'm passionate about and I'll, uh, see where the cards fall. Because I bet you know people yourself, and there's probably people listening to the podcast who've said, yeah, I have this passion about this thing. But you know what? This gig seems a little safer or whatever it might be. What would you say? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's something that I think about probably every day. Um, because there are days where, uh, you know, it gets to be a lot where people, no matter what you do, there's people that are asking, well, what about, you know, this story? What about focusing on this? And you sometimes feel like you're not accomplishing enough? Um, and so it's. You think about, well, okay, let's just throw in the towel and go do something that People won't have feedback on or something like that. But you know, when I, I'll sit and I'll put myself, okay, if I were to do that, what would my life look like? And ah, it always ends with, I wouldn't be happy with what I'm doing. Um, the work that I'm producing. I've always been kind of a stickler about doing things that I'm passionate about. Even if that means, um, not making as much as I could or getting as much sleep as I could or things like that. Um, it just that those trade offs are worth it to me because I love the work that I get to do and I'm, I'm lucky enough to love the people that I work with. So that certainly helps keep me in place. But, um, yeah, as much as, maybe it's cliche, but that passion is just, is enough to keep me, keep me happy.

Speaker A: Well, I actually interviewed somebody. I'm working on a project right now, and I went out and I'm interviewing some folks and I interviewed a gentleman for this project who, um, he, he got involved years ago in, um, he has a brother who's on the autism spectrum. And he decided, like, what could I do to help my brother for his life? And long story short, he ended up opening a car wash. And now he has three car washes in south part of Florida. South Florida. And he employs, um, 90 plus autistic adults, which is pretty amazing. And in the conversation with him, and it's by the way, it's, uh, called Rising Tide. And they have. Their productivity is higher than their competitors, their revenues are higher than their competitors, their turnover is lower than their competitors. It's a pretty amazing story. And as I was talking to him about that, he said, you know, it's tough because in his situation, he said, you imagine somebody pulls up at the car wash and yeah, they might care about the noble cause of the car wash, but ultimately they want their car washed. And then if there's an exchange between a customer and an employee and that conversation goes a little sideways, um, maybe the employee reacts the way the customer didn't expect the employee to react, and then the other employees react. And he said it was very, it was really frustrating. Some days, right, there's some days where he's like, I just want to get my head on the pillow and survive this day. But he said what he realized when he thought about it over time. He thought, okay, so I could stop running the car wash. And then what? Then I open a deli, then I open something Else, because I'm still going to want to do something to help and work with my brother. So no matter what I do, I'm going to end up in the same spot. In other words, I have to figure my way through this. And I think I heard as you were talking about your situation, you know, I could take other jobs, but at the end of the day, I'm going to end up in the same spot. Because at the end of the day, my passion is strong enough where I'm saying, no, I want to. I want to pursue this, and if I don't, I'm gonna always feel like I'm missing it. I mean, is that. Does that relate? What do you think?

Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah. Because prior to this role, I was working in public relations for three years, which I really enjoyed. That had a lot of, um, elements to it of communication and writing and things like that that I. I would say that I'm good at. But I always miss the. The storytelling aspect from a just an observer perspective, instead of, you know, writing press releases about why someone's so great, getting to tell the actual story is kind of a different facet. So, um, even in those three years, as I enjoyed what I was doing, I was longing for what I do now. Which, uh, goes back to your point about knocking on doors and asking people to kind of take a chance on me. That's what I had to do with this role. When I moved to where I am now, I. I reached out to the paper numerous times and I was like, can I just write something for you as. As a stringer, can I just show you what I can do? And finally got an answer. And they were willing to take that chance on me. And it was kind of kismet that they developed a role that fit perfectly for me. So, um, I was able to transition into that. So it was kind of right place at the right time. But it's been. It's been a good ride.

Speaker A: Well, you know, you're no stranger to being willing to knock on some doors. I said in the very beginning when I was introducing you, a couple people you've interviewed. And I just have to know, you know, as a person who does enjoy a few sitcoms occasionally, Tony Danza and Melora Hardin. So, first of all, Tony Danza, mostly, many would know for who from the TV show who's the Boss? And Melora Hardin, office fans out there probably recognize her as Jan from the Office. So how the heck did you get these two people to talk to you? And what age were you when you

Speaker B: pulled this off, uh, I think I was 24 or 25 for both of them. I, um, had, I still have a blog called the Tidbit. Um, it's a little in progress right now figuring out what I want to do with it. But um, at that time I was doing um, a lot of entertainment and lifestyle pieces and I saw that Tony Danza was doing a, um, he was going on a tour and happened to stop in Chicago for the storytelling and musical performance. And I thought, well, what if I could offer some sort of preview of this, Say tickets are on sale for this thing, um, and see if I could interview him. And his manager agreed to that. So we had a 20 minute phone interview. Um, he played the ukulele for me, which was part of his show. And that was uh, something that I'll never forget. And I also got to ask him who he thought the boss was, which was something that if 8 year old me knew was gonna be in the future, would have probably passed away from excitement. But um, so that was really neat. And um, it definitely kind of an out of body experience because I had to stop myself from being nervous about it and just kind of force myself into interviewer role and not uh, who's the boss fan role. Um, Melora Hardin was, we did our interview via email, but she was very gracious and um, if anyone's a fan of the Office, it's her. So she was more than happy to talk about that. She was working on a different show at the time that I enjoyed called the Bold Type, which, um, I kind of focused the interview towards because, you know, you kind of want to look to the present and the future rather than the past. But she was, she was happy to talk about um, the Office as well. Well, so it was exciting to get to, as an Office fan, get to chat with her, even if it was just computer mediated. But um, yeah, those were, those were really exciting.

Speaker A: Well, you know, it is, it is pretty cool when you're out there trying to, um, you know, get ahold of somebody, get somebody on your, your podcast or somebody to do an interview. It's kind of fun sometimes to get them. But then there's the other side, which is you also got to figure out, I don't know if this is an overused phrase and maybe not the right term, but you know, get. What's the hook here? What's the story? What am I trying to say? When you, when. And I think this is really relevant to anybody who's listening to the podcast, whether they're, you know, Whether they are writing, maybe they're going to say, I'm going to start putting something on LinkedIn. How do I catch people's attention? But that hook, that angle, that ability to get people to enter the story with you is applicable in so many ways. Right. If I'm launching a new project at work and I've got my team and I'm sitting down for the first time to talk to them, it's a chance for me to really invite them into a story. Or if I'm going to talk to my boss and I'm saying, I really want to do this project and there's a bit of influence I need to, to make happen here in order for my boss to support it. You know, what do I tell her? How do I get her engaged in that, or customers or whoever it might be? So, you know, you write a lot of stories. What have you figured out, or how do you approach perhaps trying to figure out what's the angle here that would be of interest to people? Because ultimately an audience has to read this thing, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's something. So for writing news articles, we call it the lead of the story, and that's a sentence or two that's going to attract the reader and keep them reading for the next 20 inches or so of copy. Um, and that's something I. I've gotten better with. I struggle with the lead sometimes, but I think I've gotten a better grasp on what is the most unique part of this story that I can pull towards the front to make people go, well, what does that mean? What is the rest of this going to entail? And so that starts with when, you know, someone's either reaching out with a story idea, and you have to be like, okay, well, what kind of sets you apart from the other people in the area that might be doing the same thing? And then sometimes it comes up during the interview where someone will say something. And, you know, so often there's a light bulb that goes off in my brain that I'm like, okay, that's it. That's my lead. That's. That's the closing quote. That is what this story is going to be about. And sometimes those are the best stories that come up organically where they kind of reveal themselves to have this hook that maybe wasn't, um, identified from the beginning. So you have to kind of be aware of that to make it something that people want to read and consume, because there's a lot that you're competing with. So having that hook is, you know, it's funny.

Speaker A: Um, I think this is so relatable to all of us in regards to openness and curiosity. We talked about curiosity earlier. I'm gonna bring it back in again because, you know, you can go into a story or into a conversation with a team member, or into a discussion with your boss, or into anything that's some type of interaction with someone and you may already in your mind know what the story is.

Speaker B: Yeah, right.

Speaker A: And you're just looking for something in that conversation to validate the story.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So I look at this employee and I think, oh, this employee, you know, they don't, they don't care about their job or they're not happy here, or they think I'm foolish as a leader, whatever it might be. And then I'm just kind of looking for it. Right. And then when they say it, uh, it just reinforces, as opposed to curiosity, says, I'm gonna go in there as best I can. And I mean, we all have biases and we all have our own history and we all have things we bring to the table, but I'm gonna set as much as that aside as I can and just try to understand something and what tends to happen in that and maybe ask one more question, maybe try to a little bit more. Because I don't know about you, Taylor, but it seems like every time I jump too quickly to a conclusion, I'm wrong. So if I ask a couple more questions, curiosity has become a fun thing for me because it's as much a self defense mechanism as far as like, save myself from myself. Because if I explore a little bit further, I usually learn something more and I can actually do a better job. But also the, um, curiosity of just kind of wanting to understand what makes someone tick or why a situation plays out that way. The reason I say all that is because you just said in your conversation there, you said, you know, I'm, um, in an interview with somebody and all of a sudden something's revealed. And that's when that, uh, that's that serendipitous moment, right, where you're like, I didn't even see this one coming. But that's it, that's what it is. And I would encourage all of us, myself at the front of that line to be more that way when I'm talking to an employer or a team member, to be a little bit more curious because something might pop out and you go, wow, tell me more about that. That's a great insight about our customers or that's a huge thing. You've been doing and sometimes I don't know, um, if this translates into the work you do. But I know that in working with, um, team members and organizations, you know, sometimes you find some team members who do something exceptionally well.

Speaker B: Hm.

Speaker A: And when you ask them what they do to do that exceptionally well, sometimes they don't even know. It's almost like in their DNA or it's just how they do things. It takes a couple probing questions to realize this is the essence of how they see things or what they're doing or the steps they follow. Because they don't always see it, uh, as easily because they're just kind of, you know, fish discover water less, they're doing it themselves. Do you, do you find that when you're talking to people sometimes the thing that you find that might be of most interest to an audience is something that they kind of take for granted or don't even see as a big deal?

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My, my main beat is human interest in feature stories. So I'm typically talking to just everyday door next door people. And more often than not they start the conversation with, well, I don't know why you want to interview me. I don't really have a story to tell. And I just kind of let them say that. And in the back of my mind I'm always thinking, everybody has a story to tell and there's always something, some life experience that you've had that everyone else likely has not had. And so when they kind of start off in that, for lack of a better term, self deprecating way, um, they are kind of guarded. And then as we, I try to make it as conversational as possible and not so much just question, answer, you know, very much like this conversation is right now. And they kind of open up and um, allow me to frame some questions maybe to make themselves see their experience in a way that maybe they hadn't seen it before. So I think that very much relates to what I do on a daily basis. Getting people to kind of look at their, their life from an outsider's perspective and see that they do have a story to tell.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, that's, that's so true. I love that because, you know, in the work I do with people, I'm always oftentimes talking about what is your leadership story? What's the story you're writing about yourself every day? And some days you write a couple sentences. You know, it's like a big day, big project, big meeting, big something happened, big decision about my career, whatever it might be, um, stepping Forward, stepping back, whatever it might be. I might write a couple sentences. Other days, we, like, dot an I or cross a T or do something. Right. But every day we're writing that story. And the idea of, like, putting the pen in your hand and owning that story, I think that's really interesting in the perspective of what you do in these conversations to help people see that they have a story. And it's a unique story. It's in. It's a powerful story. It can be an informative story. It can be an inspirational story. And I think that if we, you know, approach our colleagues and our, uh, teammates and our direct reports and our boss and everybody at work and in life with that same level of curiosity and recognizing that, you know, in that moment, your story is bumping up against somebody else's story and to let them go first, it can be really positive. So you have a new book out. Getting it done, Organizing your personal and professional life for optimal growth. So there were a couple words that jumped out at me in this title, and we'll go into a little bit more, but getting it Done, what is it?

Speaker B: Anything. Anything you want to accomplish. I, um, think that any goal that you have needs to have some sort of organizational path to get you to accomplish that goal, some sort of motivation and having. I'm a very big list person, so anything I need to get done, whether it be grocery shopping or putting out a book, I need to have some sort of keys to get.

Speaker A: All right, so let's see if this is genetic. Do you suffer from the same psychological disorder I have that I like my list? Sometimes I love my list. But more than liking my list, I love checking stuff off my list.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And here's the. Here's where the potential disorder comes in. If I do something and it's not on my list, I add it to my list so I can check it off my list.

Speaker B: I did that last week, and I was making fun of myself. I'll literally put get the mail on the list just so I have something to check off. But, yeah, I went to the post office and didn't have that on my list and went back into my phone office and checked it off.

Speaker A: You know what? I find the list. Yeah. Yeah. It helps you get things done. No doubt about it. But it also sometimes serves as a motivational factor to look back. Like when you feel stuck in a moment, you can, like, glance back at the progress you're making on things, and you go, okay, I can get this book written, because a book's a slog Right. I mean, maybe not for you. You love writing so much, but it can be tough. You know, there's a million ways and reasons to not do it. Sometimes other things. Right? So, like, I have found that there's some people who like to say they write books because they want. They may never write a book, but they just like this cocktail party discussion, I got this book in mind, or whatever it might be. Then there's other people that want to hold that book so they can be like, look at the book I wrote. A lot of people don't like to do all that stuff that happens in the middle, which is writing the book, because, I don't know, it, uh, seems like every project I work on, as much as I might enjoy the project, there is a moment where I'm like, I hate this project. I can't stand this. I don't want to read this article anymore or write this page anymore. Work on this chapter. You just. But. But that idea of, like, checking things off, getting things done. So I agree, like, whatever. And I like how you said it, like, what. What met? What matters to you? What do you want to get done? And at the end of the, um, subtitle, it says, organizing your personal and professional life for optimal growth. And I just think that's really intriguing because it doesn't say organizing your professional life and, you know, and personal life and professional life to, you know, deliver great results. It might. There's a lot of, like, to get the next job or whatever it might be. But you said optimal growth, which I think is really interesting because to me, it is kind of a crescendo type of thing in life. Can I keep learning new things? And so why did you choose optimal growth?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think this goes back to the curiosity discussion from the beginning and how asking questions keeps you growing, keeps you learning. I'm very much a person who does not ever want to stop learning and growing. And so I think having those motivational aspects of being organized and even if it's writing a list just to get everything off of your brain, that's a huge help for me as well. Um, keeping those things in check so that you're always growing, that's something that I'm personally passionate about, which is why I chose to title it that way. Um, because I don't think we should ever stop focusing on that growth and looking towards what's next. That. That's huge for me.

Speaker A: So if people pick up a copy of the book, which I encourage them to do in triplicate, get one for yourself, one for a friend, and keep one for the holidays or something. So basically in the book, you talk about a collection of articles and essays that you've written that help people learn the best methods when it comes to organizing both personally and professionally, so they can reach new heights. Um, but it also has a lot of tips and advice, which I think, uh, sounds like a really good marriage between. There's stories piece, which can be entertaining and engaging and shows a lesson through story. But then there's also the practical side, right, where it's like, and here's something you can. So could you give us a couple examples? If I'm picking this thing up, what would be some advice that maybe a leader listening to this podcast will pick up on that might help them better lead themselves or maybe even others?

Speaker B: Yeah, and this just keeps going back to my can't stop being curiousness. Um, so one of the examples is my sister works in hr, and so I've always been very curious about what she does at her day to day, what her. How different her role is compared to mine. So I thought, well, how can I use her knowledge to help myself and help others? Um, so I said, what do you look for when you're interviewing somebody? What's something that stands out to you? What are some green flags, red flags? So she's just one of a few people that are mentioned in the book for their expertise of whatever that may be. But, um, that's something that is knowledge that we might not have because we're not in that role. So seeing something from her perspective of day in, day out of dealing with people on that level, I think can be, um, very helpful for other people.

Speaker A: Yeah, I could see, um, why I would want to know that, you know, what do people want, um, on the other side of the table in the interview? What are they looking for? And what are the things that can quickly get you thrown in the pile you don't want to be in necessarily.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: How do you do that to yourself? Yeah, that's really helpful. So, um, when you decide to write it, there's lots of different ways you could organize it. But why the articles? Essay side?

Speaker B: Yeah, so those are. It's been probably since about 2015 that I've been writing on the topic of organization and productivity. And so I just kind of went back and pulled ones that were evergreen and still useful nearly seven, eight, nine years later that I find to still be true. And I kind of tweaked them to make them, um, some of them had to be updated a Little bit to reflect our post pandemic World. But, um, it just. It's been kind of. The goal was never to write a book. It just was. One day I realized I have so many similar articles and essays that if I put them together, they could be. They could be a standalone thing that could help somebody. So that's how that kind of evolved into what it is now.

Speaker A: It's interesting when you find something that you've written in the past and you pull it back out and we've all done this. Right. You pull something out and you kind of rediscover it in that moment. Oh, yeah, I forgot I wrote that. Or sometimes you may even be like, that's actually pretty good or whatever it might be. You realize that there's certain things that, like you said, update it for post pandemic world because it needs to be a bit more timely. What's going on. Maybe it's more work from home or something like that might be, like, kind of lean in. But then there's also this timeless component to it. Right. Certain things that made you, uh, effective or productive 10 years ago, 20 years ago, probably are principles that made people productive 50 years ago or 100 years ago. And I think that's such an interesting marriage. Like, how do I take something that's timeless? Like, I would imagine maybe on cave walls, they're writing their to do list down.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And checking things off. Right. So there's certain things that are like, these are timeless good things to do. Like if you got a bunch of stuff, you might want to jot it down and you might want to prioritize it, and you might want to go talk to somebody who does something different so you can learn from their perspective. I mean, these are great ideas, but then make it timely where it engages people. I think that's a. That's a, um, you know, a particular trick you had. I've had a skill you had. I've known you, as I said, your whole life, and I've watched you and your writing evolve. And I've hired you, I partnered with you to write things with me. So, I mean, I've seen that skill evolve. So to take that brilliance of your ability to write and bring it into a topic like this, and especially if you keep finding yourself going back to something like you said you went back and go, gosh, I got so many of these. That means you, you have an interest in that for whatever reason. Right. You keep going back to that. And I think that's a real takeaway for everybody. If you find yourself kind of continually going back to a topic or an issue or reflecting on something. Um, maybe there's something there. Now, sometimes we do it because we, you know, we feel bad about the past or we want to change the past, or we think we missed an opportunity that's, you know, living in that past is not a great thing. But if it's like, I keep going back to it because that topic is of interest to me, maybe there's something there. It's worth exploring a little bit. Use that curiosity that Taylor mentioned. Well, hey, I really have enjoyed our conversation together. Um, I just so love watching all that you're doing. Um, can I say, I'm proud of you and your uncle and all the work you do. And I encourage folks, get a copy of the book Getting It Done organizing your personal and professional life for optimal Growth. It's available on Amazon right now. It's in paperback. So, um, easy. Put it in your bag, carry it to the beach this summer, read it, whatever you do, go to the top of mountain, take it to top of mountains and out to the beach so Taylor can get photos of it everywhere. So, Taylor, thanks so much. I'll see you soon, I hope.

Speaker B: Thank you. Yes.

Speaker A: Well, folks, that's all I have for today's episode. Big thanks to Taylor Leden McMaster for joining me in the Leadership Lab to talk about her career, the importance of curiosity, and how we all can work to capture the story. I encourage you to pick up a copy of her book, Getting It Done Organizing youg Personal and Professional Life for optimal Growth. It's available right now on Amazon. Just look up for the book Getting It Done by Taylor leaden McMaster. And while you're at it, go ahead and share a copy of the link this podcast with a friend or colleague who would benefit from hearing it. The Leadership Lab podcast is in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide. And it's because people like you hear conversations like the one I just had with Taylor and you think to yourself, I know somebody would benefit from hearing that. That's all I have for today, except for one thing. The Leadership Lab podcast is going on a bit of a hiatus going into the summer months. Hopefully be back to you soon. But in the meantime, there's 243 other episodes out there other than this one that you can listen to and enjoy. So have at it. I'm Dr. Patrick Ludden. That's all I have for today. Go make it a good one.