How to build winning relationships on and off the court - A conversation with Omar Abouseif, Global Associate Sector Manager at Shell & former professional basketball player

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Leaders in Conversation, the podcast in which leaders weave together the threads of their life and leadership stories. The people, places and experiences that have shaped them, their values, beliefs, passion and purpose to encourage and inspire you to be even more confident and courageous in your leadership. I'm Annie Townend, executive team coach, thinking partner to leaders and their teams, and co founder of Collaboration Equation with Lucy Kidd. If you're not already subscribed to the podcast, please do review and share it. Thank you. My guest today is Omar Absuif, a former professional basketball player and now global associate sector UH manager at UH Shel. And the title of our conversation is how to build winning relationships on and off the court. I had the joy of meeting Omar uh on the marketing leaders program in 2025, and I'm excited for our conversation and to learn more about his journey from the basketball court to the boardroom and how what he learned on the court has shaped his life and leadership in business. In our conversation, Omar offers valuable insights into leading with purpose in business and in life, knowing and being yourself, engaging with and in others to deliver great performance, and finally, the importance of paying attention to the soft skills. Omar, welcome. It's a joy to see you again.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. Ali. Thanks a lot for having me. It's really great to connect again after meeting last year. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: When you sent me over the possible title for our conversation, I think I had forgotten that you were a professional basketball player in and amongst all the conversations that we had during the Marketing Leaders Program. So I'm very excited to hear more about how your experience as a professional basketball player has influenced your leadership and how you build winning relationships. But would like to start with who are the people and the places and the key experiences that have shaped you, Your passion and your purpose, your values and beliefs. And perhaps I should say for listeners that I, uh, know you will talk about this as well, but that you're in Cairo, Egypt today, which is your home.

Speaker B: Um, I've been very much looking forward to this since last time we met, almost the end of last year. Thank you for having me over here. And, um, if I think a little bit about myself and who am I, basketball has been a huge part of my life. I played professionally for 16 years, and then I went into the corporate life, where I've been working now for another maybe 14 years as well. And I've been working in different multinationals. And I was blessed, to be honest, to work in different roles, being local or global roles where I got a lot of experience meeting a lot of different people, different cultures. I think I've been very much blessed to play sports and work in different environments. And um, to be honest, if I think who am I at my core is, I've been always someone who was very passionate about people and um, helping people feel better first and then perform better, connect together deeply, both in business and in life, be it in basketball and sports or in work or even generally, if you meet someone you're going an elevator, just say hi, smile. This might make the person in front of you feel better.

Speaker A: I really love that Omar. I want to come in there and pick up on that uh, message around in every interaction, leaving people feeling better because that's my experience of having met you. Every conversation that we had, I felt better after it. There was something about you and how you are and how you show up for people that has me certainly, and I think this is shared with others. Leave the conversation feeling better no matter where we were when we started the conversation. So tell me, tell me about your upbringing. Were you a really sporty child? Were your family, sports people? And how did they, the people around you, shape these values and beliefs that you now live and lead by?

Speaker B: I think, uh, huge part of who am I today comes back to my family. They've spent a lot of effort and time and with me in order to make me the person who I am. And yeah, I think my dad was the person who was pushing me always to do sports and for him it was even more important than studying. And my mom was the other person. So studying is more important. So I think both of them have helped me to focus both sports and my studying as well. I have three main things that I feel shape me so my family, they played a very big role in shaping my values. They've taught me discipline, humility and consistency since I was a young kid. Do the work and be good to people even when no one is looking or watching. And I think the most important thing I got from them is treat everyone with respect, regardless of their role, their background. That's something that stayed with me whether in sports or career or life in general. So the second thing is the leaders I've worked on. I think throughout my career, I've been also very fortunate because I was really blessed to work with exceptional managers and leaders that have, ah, invested in me. And when I was reflecting, just trying to prepare a little bit for this, I think the common thread or the common thing between all of them is that they were really humble, they were genuinely caring about people Investing in people and they were very authentic. And uh, most of my managers I was looking up to, I want to be like you because you treat people well, you empower them, you think of the small interactions. So I think this was also a great blessing that I work with those people.

Speaker A: And Omar is that on the court as well as off the court. So when you were playing basketball, your coaches, the people who were, you were in training with, the managers, they treated you with respect, they empowered you. And there was a, it sounds as if there was a humbleness which they brought to their leadership of you and the teams.

Speaker B: I was just thinking, if I'm thinking of a place that helped shape me, was the basketball court. And as you said, I think the leaders and um, my teammates, I think sports, or especially team sports is all about trust and um, treating each other a good way off and on the court. By the way, even we as ah, teammates, we were friends, building relationships together and memories and this helps in the court. I know if one player is going to go past me, I know that my teammate has my back and is going to fill up for me. So I think that also was something definitely I learned a lot from. At times I was playing in teams where we were the strongest team and we would win, but also at other times we know we were not the best. But being humble enough to respect your opponents and also trust yourself was something that helped me a lot. And I think also the subjects in business, sometimes you're working in a brand where you are the market leader and other times you are not the market leader. How would you respect that but still have confidence in yourself and your leaders would give you confidence to compete and work better.

Speaker A: I really like that being in relationship on the court and off the court and building the trust no matter where you are with each other and how important that is. And something else that you said that I've heard myself say is it's what you do when nobody's looking that really matters. It's how you show up for yourself and live your values and beliefs when nobody is looking. So there's no acknowledgement for what you've done. However, you have been true to yourself. And there's a parallel there, I think too with being on and um, off the court, building trust that it's not simply who you are on the court, it's who you are off the court and how you are with other people as well.

Speaker B: And I think one thing to summarize, like what shaped me is from all my interactions with different people and my different experiences in sports and in my professional work career is that being humble really works. It builds trust, it brings people with you and it creates strong performance over time. It's not you're just being a nice person and forgetting about results or achieving the goals or KPIs. It definitely is a key factor in helping you achieve your goals.

Speaker A: And um, what does it mean to be humble? Um, I'm thinking of listeners who are listening and we hear this in leadership, that being humble helps people come with you, follow you, engage with you. That it's not about you, that it is about getting out of your own way. But what does it mean for you, being humble and what can the listener learn from you? Omar about this?

Speaker B: Yeah, I believe it's starting from first being yourself that's the most important thing. And I remember here there is always as stronger for some people, even early in your career on being they want to be this polished leader versus you want to be the authentic leader. So sometimes you feel if you create, um, I don't know what to call it, but if you create this version of your not really yourself that is a bit more polished, trying to have a specific way that is not your own way, you lose the authenticity. And um, I think that one part. So I think it's very important to be yourself. And I think being humble starts from the very small actions. You're going into the office, go around, say hi to people. It allows, shake their hand, be present in the moment, be very focused with people and be approachable. I think one of the things that I've learned a lot is I've seen CEOs who have an open door policy kind of. I know it's not like anytime you're going, but they're open to sit with you, speak with you, give you part of their time.

Speaker A: I'm 100% with you. Omar M. I think that making time to say hello to anybody and everybody, no matter who they are or where they're sitting, is really important that we are all human beings. And for me, that human centered leadership really matters. And I think picking up on presence, being really present for people, we know when somebody is distracted. And I think we cannot help but be distracted when our phones light up or there's a ping or whatever. It's very hard to resist it. And I think neuroscience is telling us that this is how we're wired. So actually turning these things off and not having them around us helps us to be present. And for listeners thinking about those things which distract you, take away from you, Being present. One of the things that I've been thinking about is that when we bring focus plus energy, we have presence. And so the self awareness is around, you know, bringing our focus, really paying attention onto the situation, onto who we're being with others and bringing our energy, all of our energy. And through that then we bring presence. We're present to ourselves and to each other in the way that you are. Omar. I, um, uh, feel you and your presence and you're very present to the people that you're with.

Speaker B: Thanks a lot Anya. I appreciate that.

Speaker A: We talk about knowing who you are and being yourself and again I think this is one of those things that is easier said than done for you. You had managers, leaders, coaches on the court and subsequently off the court that you admired, looked up to and learnt from. What else has helped you tap into knowing who you are and um, being able to be your authentic self?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I think a couple of things here. So you mentioned that we met on the Marketing Leaders program and I think this was one of the things that helped me a lot to understand myself better. Before this course I didn't really sit and properly thought of what's my purpose and I would always like answer something on the spot what comes to my mind. But I think very thankful to you and the course as well. We took the time to sit back, reflect and understand what the purpose is. And um, this helped me a lot to understand myself. Typing it down and having it on a piece of paper in front of me is something that helped me understand more. I mean I believe it's an evolving purpose. Your purpose is there and it keeps shaping up as you go. I've been always a people's person but putting this in mind made me even more focused and I think other things also about we discussed in the courses about your different energies and when you are at your best and what you are not at your best and how does this also impact people? So I think this helped me a lot in order to understand myself and also what really helped me a lot to be stay grounded in what I took out of this course is like the self church lecture. Getting feedback from people and staying very close to your values and being honest on really what you know and what you're doing and what you still need to do better. That's something very important. And um, I feel people are much more safe when they know themselves and they're being themselves. They engage more and actually um, they perform better as well. So I would say the marketing dance program has helped me a lot to understand myself better on the days where, um, I'm feeling good, on the days where I'm feeling a bit not good, and so on. So it was really a great experience.

Speaker A: And, uh, on the program, we use the Future Engage Deliver approach to developing leadership, personal leadership and organizational leadership. And, um, it's good to hear you speaking about the importance of finding your purpose, the future that you're leading for. And then of course, Engage is all about relationships. Engage, Engage, Engage. Steve Radcliffe, who authored the book Leadership Plain and Simple and created Future Engage Deliver, always says had he entitled the book the Second Time Round when he self published it, he would have called it Future Engage Engage, Engage Deliver. Because it's this middle Engage building winning relationships that uh, really matters. And it's something that you learned, uh, on the court, I think, and it would be great to hear how you've done that not only on the court, Omar, but also around the board table in your work at uh, Shell.

Speaker B: Thanks for bringing this up. And Future Engaged Delivery, I think is brilliant also. I mean, when you start after also going through it and understanding it more, you feel it already applied to a lot of the things you've done before. And also after learning, it helps you to approach things differently. So for me, I think winning relationships are the heart of everything. It's the most important thing. If you don't have this, it's really hard to prove this, whether in sports or in business. Very quickly on sports, if you think future is this team wants to win the championship, and then Engage Engage is putting in all the efforts, training and connecting to each other, building the relationships, the trust and everything. And then the delivery is actually winning the actual championship when it comes to the boardroom or, you know, when it comes to the professional career. I think also Future Engaged Delivery is really important. I've been working a lot in different roles where I, uh, work, but I always work through them. So I need to deliver through others without authority, if, uh, you call it like that. And I think Future Engage Deliver has helped me a lot. Pre and post this before, I used to think, you know, we just dive into maybe the Engage part and we don't spend a lot of Engage and then we want to deliver. But then what really helped a lot is starting by the future. So what we want as a group or as it seem, to deliver together, first we define it and we agree on it. Once we agree on this, we move into the next step and we spend the right and proper amount of time. And Engage, whether it be it's A small project or a big project or anything. We engage, we work together, we understand each other and be very open and clear about what's happening. And then I feel that deliver will be a natural outcome of the investment you did in defining the future and in engaging a lot.

Speaker A: I want to comment on that, Omar, Um, because that's such a brilliant summary of future engaged deliver. That leadership starts in the future. Uh, that we absolutely need to have a future that we can engage people in, that we believe in, that matters to us, that we care about. Also, people engage with us with who we are. It so well, with knowing who you are, being your authentic self, people trusting you and believing you and absolutely, uh, wanting to be up to something together with you. And, um, then of course, if you get future and engage right, deliver, as you've so eloquently said, follows. But interestingly, when I first met and worked with Steve Radcliffe many years ago, we used to talk about that as playing to win versus playing to avoid losing. Taken very much from the world of sport where going in with that winning mindset, a, uh, playing to win mindset versus the mindset, which is playing to avoid lose, which keeps us much smaller in so many ways.

Speaker B: I agree with you. I mean, I think play to win is a great mindset. And it's, as you said, in sports, it's very important because if you go in and you're just trying to do the minimum or the normal, probably you will end up losing. But if you're going there to play to win, your mindset is different. You're going in with a completely different mindset. And I think a very important thing to say about winning relationships, uh, because people might also think winning relationships is all about just being nice or so, but actually it's about being honest. It's about being aligned with the person in front of you. And also, sometimes something also we've tackled in the program, which is having the difficult conversations. Having the difficult conversations actually is healthy. It's not bad at all because it gets out of the way a lot of things. As long as you do this with respect and with a shared goal. And, um, this really drives performance. You link all of this to performance. If you move in that way, performance will come no matter what.

Speaker A: I think where, if we shy away from having those conversations. There's a lovely quote. I don't know who said it. There's no such thing as a difficult conversation. There's only a conversation about a difficult thing. And so often when we have that conversation about that difficult thing A performance related challenge or whatever it is, it's not as difficult as we imagined it might be if we have a big enough relationship in order to be able to have that conversation. And I think approaching those conversations with a, uh, how can I help you be your best? So that's back to where we started our conversation today. How can I help you to feel better and be your best Is about committing to the other person's success. So when we give feedback, when we help them to have that conversation with us, they will leave it feeling better, more motivated, more confident to go and try something out, to do better, feel better and do better.

Speaker B: Claudio it helps a lot to clear a lot of obstacles in the way that will help you connect better with people and will help you definitely deliver in a much, much better way

Speaker A: and feel safer. Omar I think in those relationships where we know the person will be themselves, they will be. They're, uh, committed to our success and know that you will be honest with me. There aren't going to be any unexpected surprises or things that I hadn't thought about, or if they are, they're things I will be glad to think about. And I think what we're talking about here are the soft skills, which I can remember, again reading a quote many years ago about the soft skills really are the hard skills, though they're not soft by any means. It often takes courage to have those conversations and to be open, uh, to be vulnerable, to be humble. What has helped you learn the soft skills, which are often the hardest? Yes.

Speaker B: So I think there are a couple of points here. So first one is I believe soft skills helps you gain trust and show respect to people, starting from being there on time, being present in a meeting, not just physically present, but with your own mind and heart present. If you're committing to a deadline, you respectfully deliver against this deadline. So I believe those ones are very important. Uh, and especially now that we moved in a world where a lot of people are working remotely, we do a lot of calls. I try my best not to make it usual that I'm always two or three minutes late to all because I feel it's a very easy thing to do to be on time. I know we get stressed, we have things, but when you come on time to the meeting, it shows something to the person in front of you. You already know one part of this meeting before even starting it, because you're there, you're on time, you're showing your commitment and respect.

Speaker A: That's such an important point to underline to being on time for a meeting, if not being slightly ahead if possible, and therefore allowing time between meetings to be on time. Because I think we're talking here about paying attention, a soft skill of paying attention to the impact that you have on other people and the impact felt experience. And a little bit like having people feel better. Uh, I will often ask people, how do you want people to feel at the start of a meeting, during and importantly as they leave a meeting, as they leave the team's call or leave the room or whatever the conversation is. But getting off to a good start with everybody in the meeting, whether that's the two of us being on time as we were today, we, or there being more people gathered, showing up for each other on time has such a positive impact. And, um, whilst it's not always possible things will happen, it's the intentionality about being on time and planning for it that can have such a big impact for people, I think.

Speaker B: And as you said, uh, it shows a lot of respect. It shows that you care about the person and this actually puts the person in front of you in a good state before you even start. But also another thing, when I think of soft skills also, again in those times, AI and technology, this is a reality and it's something very important and people have to learn it and have to understand it. But also at the same time, it's very important to know. I think now most of us can tell when this piece of content or this email is written with AI or not. And, um, use AI. I use it definitely for my work and for my personal life and everything. But I don't want technology to make me feel unreal. I feel when I type an email myself or when I type a piece of content, the words I personally use. And um, the words are, uh, my own writing helps me communicate and connect better people. And another example, I know it might be a small thing, but it's something that, for example, people who use WhatsApp. So previously, of course, vegetape, previously if I wanted something from you, I'd give you a call. And then it became a text. And then now there, uh, are those react buttons to the text. So I think now even I cannot reply to the person. But press, press a react button for me. Also I feel this is making the interaction less so. I try as much as possible not to use this react button. At least I want to reply to your message, say a couple of words. Because again, this helps a lot with building the relationship.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So important is simply responding, but responding in more than a reaction, a sentence or something which thanks the person for their message, their email or whatever. And I think it's helpful to think, do I need to send this message? Do I need to send this email? And also to make it clear that I would really like a response and I would really appreciate a response by a certain time to help people to respond. Because there's so much email traffic, isn't there, that so much of it doesn't ever get a response because it doesn't need a response. But in and amongst those emails, there are those that really would benefit from a response. The person would benefit from a response.

Speaker B: I think very important from those soft skills that need a lot of effort is self awareness, listening to people replying, having empathy and clarity. And I think those, I wouldn't say those are easy things, but if you haven't intentionally or thinking of them and trying to put effort in them and practice them, they will help you a lot in delivering your business results. Yeah. And I think that's something I learned. Uh, soft skills are not optional. I think they're very fundamental to building trust, to building strong teams and delivering really strong performance. Yeah.

Speaker A: And Omar, as we come to the close of our conversation, two questions I have for you. One, is there anything else that you would like to talk about that we haven't spoken about, that listeners would love to learn from you, from your experience on the court and off the court, and perhaps particularly at this time you work for Shell, for a company that. We're recording this in the spring of 2026. So is there anything related to what you that we haven't spoken about, you'd like to talk about?

Speaker B: I think one important thing is, um, I'm currently working in a global role and I'm working with all the different countries around the world, Asia, Europe, the Americas. And I think I'm really blessed to be working in this role because dealing with other nationalities, other cultures adds an other layer of uh, all what we spoke about. But dealing with people from different cultures adds an extra layer. So you need to invest even more in that building of future engaged in it. It's not an option.

Speaker A: Working globally as you do, investing in relationships and in those soft skills really matters because whilst we are all human, we're all different and our upbringings and where we are in the world and where we are in our lives impacts on how we are and who we are and getting to know each other. Omar, as a result of our conversation today, who is the person and or people that you're going to have A conversation with and um, what will the conversation be about?

Speaker B: Sure. It comes to my mind. One colleague, she works with me was also latitude to meet her early on my career, one other company and then we moved to this company also together. I used to be her manager at that point of time. Uh, and she's a very smart and brilliant growing in. So I always try to help her uh, and give her advice in general. So I think that is one person I will be speaking to in order to tell her more about our conversation and tell her about the importance of, of all what we discussed in their career. So that's one person I think also my team at work, I think it's, it's very interesting. I try to bring to them what I learned as well. Even what I learned from the course last year. How uh, bring this angle and thinking and thought to our team, all the

Speaker A: team members and what are your three encouragements to leaders listeners of our uh, conversation today? Yes.

Speaker B: So I think most important one is invest in people. We are in the business of people. Our customers are people. You know, we do have technology and everything, but who creates and runs this technology are people. So invest in people before the outcomes. The results will eventually follow. Uh, and then second thing is be in the moment, be intentional. Every interaction, make people feel your presence because those small moments are the ones that build the big trust. So that's so very important. And lead with genuine care. People will always remember how you made them feel, whether it be as I told you, meeting someone in an elevator or having a meeting in an office. People always, uh, a small word can have a huge impact on a person. So lead with genuine care and remember what will people feel after you do this action or say that word.

Speaker A: Thank you. Omar. Um, um, I'm going to pick up on feeling better from our conversation today already and we started there, uh, that you like to leave everybody feeling better. And I certainly do for people listening. I have been smiling, as have you throughout our whole conversation. For people watching, they will see that what's the best way for people to connect with you. Omar, um, uh, and to find out more about you.

Speaker B: I am very reachable on LinkedIn. If anyone wants to message me about anything. I'm ah, more than happy to help people with anything they want and I

Speaker A: can vouch for that because you're so great at helping people and wanting to help people. So I do encourage you, the listener to reach out to Omar um, uh, to listen to other leaders in conversation with me. Annie Townend, do go to my website annietownen.com to find out more about the work Lucy Kidd and I do go to collaboration collaborationequasion.com to find out more about Future Engaged Deliver, do go to the website futureengagedeliver.com and of course to find out more about the wonderful Marketing Leaders program, do go to the marketing society website themarketingsociety.com Omar a huge thank you to you. And in addition, thank you to Smogus Media Coco for the wonderful production of the podcast and to Louisa Penney, the marketing of the podcast. To contact me, do follow me on LinkedIn. Visit my website email me on Annie Townen.com I look forward to connecting with you.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: Thank you.