The Simple Daily Habit that Could Save You From Burnout featuring Alison Campbell

Speaker A: Hey, friends, and welcome to episode 337 of It's About Time, a podcast about work, life, and balance. I'm your host, time management coach, Anna Dearvin Kornik. And out of curiosity, have you ever sat down with a friend, a trusted confidant, maybe a therapist even, and said, I don't know what's wrong with me. I. I just can't keep up? Well, that was me about a decade ago in the middle of my own burnout. And for me, it took someone else saying out loud, anna, um, this is not a you problem. This is the environment that you're in. And they saw that before I could even see it. And hearing that from someone else absolutely changed the trajectory of my life. And I share that because today's guest has lived a version of that same story, right down to the moment her body finally made her stop and listen. So let me cut to the chase and introduce you to Allyson Campbell. Allison spent nearly 20 years climbing the corporate ladder. Morgan Stanley, HSN, Wayfair, Work Human, and eventually became chief of staff and head of strategy at a billion dollar SaaS company. On paper, she had totally made it. In reality, she was quietly pushing through every warning sign her body was giving her. Until a health scare in 2023, um, landed her in surgery and forced her to face what she'd been ignoring. So she founded Unburnt, an SBA certified woman owned small business built on the idea that well being is not the reward for good performance, it's the prerequisite for it. Alison works with leaders and teams to diagnose where capacity is breaking down and redesign the everyday rhythms that determine whether change actually sticks. And she's also an executive in residence at Bentley University's center for Health and Business, where she researches how today's workplace conditions erode the capacity organizations need to innovate and perform. In my conversation today with Allison, she shares how she personally protects herself from burnout as a founder and mom without having a playbook to follow. She opens up about why chasing an A on everything is quietly setting you up to burn out and what to aim for instead. She tells me about her simple daily check in practice for catching overwhelm before it becomes a crisis, including her four step, uh, real time reframe for resetting in the middle of a stressful moment. And finally, you'll hear about what you can do when you're doing everything right personally and. But it's truly the culture around you that's the problem. If you've ever felt like burnout is Just the price of being ambitious. This episode is your permission slip to believe otherwise, and it's your guide to actually doing something about it. And hey, I know you've got a ton on your plate, so let's make this easy. You can find all of the tools and resources mentioned in this episode over in the show notes. And this week's show notes can be found at. Ah.abouttimepodcast.com 337 Finally, I want to thank you again for tuning in to an episode of It's About Time. If you haven't yet, I'd be so excited for you to click the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. And if you've got a minute, uh, leave a review, because your reviews play a huge role in helping other busy women find the show. Plus, I am absolutely delighted every time a new review pops up. I read all of them and I do a happy dance every single time. I get your feedback. And with that, it's about time we get started. So let's get this show on the road.

Speaker B: You're listening to It's About Time, a podcast about work, life and balance. Around here, we believe that busy is not a badge of honor. Your host, Anna Dearman Kornick, is here to share tips and strategies to help you make the most of your time. Listen in on real conversations and success stories to find out how other go getters are getting things. If you're ready to step away from the overwhelm and spend your time on what matters most, then you're in the right place. Here's your host, time management coach Anna Dearman Kornick.

Speaker A: Hey, Alison. And welcome to It's About Time. I am very much looking forward to our conversation today. How are you doing? I'm, um, good. Thank you so much.

Speaker C: I'm thrilled to be here.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, I gave everyone the official Allison Campbell bio in the intro to this episode, but as always, we want to hear from you in your own words. How do you spend your time these days?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm a founder. I'm a mom of two. Uh, it's summer as we're recording this, so really trying to lean into the season. And my days are full. Right. It's, ah, toggling between running a business, raising kids and everything that sort of falls in between. It's a. It's a busy season of life. So I spend my days trying to continue to honor the commitments I made when I launched this business around, maintain my wellbeing routines, practices, things that I know keep me well, keep Me going, keep me energized. So there's a component of that sprinkled in every single day. And then it's a lot of fluidity between managing the business, raising the kids, being present, and no two days look the same, truly.

Speaker A: Yeah, Seriously. Well, I, uh, want to know, like, what does running the business look like for you? Are you super hands on? Are you really just overseeing things? What does that look like?

Speaker C: Yeah, super hands on. It's still extremely early days, very foundational. And so again, no two days are the same. I have built the foundational offering. I have launched an arm of the business that is all about research. So we can, we can sort of dive into that later. I'm still delivering client engagements, I'm prospecting, I'm holding discovery and sales calls. So I'm kind of wearing a lot of hats as you do in early phases of business. And I'm loving it all, truly, because I think continuing to be really involved and being able to go super deep provides a level of insight that has enabled me to iterate quickly, keep a finger on the pulse of what's really happening in the market, and with prospective customers seeing trends across companies. So I'm intimately involved in the day to day, but loving every, every second of it.

Speaker A: I love that. Uh, and I find that especially in the early days, being super involved in the day to day only sets you up to delegate.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: With, with more success. Because you understand what exactly it is you're delegating.

Speaker C: Yes. And creating processes along the way. Right. Because day one, month one of launching a business, there is absolutely no process. And it takes time to sort of bake them in and kind of figure out does this even make sense. And so you can't, you can't delegate, you can't hand off until you have some things really routinized. And so I'm still, I'm still in that part of the business. Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So it's very much like you're wearing a lot of hats. You are very much in the building mode. You are creating systems. You are, uh, that's. That is awesome. Um, and you mentioned, you know, you're a mom. It's summer. Kids are kids are kids. So, like, what is, what does that look like for you? Do you work set hours and then have set family time? Is it fluid? Tell us, tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker C: Yeah. So this summer is actually the first summer in the past few years where we have a variety of different camps schedules, a different travel schedule that we've never done before. And so no two weeks this summer actually look the same either, which is both exciting. And the kids are really amped about the different types of camps they're doing. Makes it more challenging as mom, to balance what each week is drop off and pick up. Aligned with my calendar.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: So. But super grateful in the season of life that I founded my own business and I can, you know, with some proactive foresight, make that all happen. So feeling super grateful. Do have set hours. The kids are going to camp. My daughter, she's almost 13, she's going to sleepaway camp for two weeks at the end of July. So both excited for her, but also sad for me. And so it's just. Yeah, we've got a fun summer on deck.

Speaker A: That's awesome. That's awesome. And you mentioned something that really perked my ears up when you said that you have personally committed to living and running your business in a way that prevents your own burnout. I mean, you are in the stage of growing a business where founders are most likely to run themselves into the ground. What does avoiding burnout for you look like?

Speaker C: Yeah, so it's interesting because it's a constant reset and there's been a lot of grace with accepting that. While I learned a lot from my prior burnout, experience in corporate, which was the catalyst for why I left, had a health scare. Took some time. This chapter looks so different. Right. So I don't have the playbook for what a founder needs to be doing in year two of a business. And so there is a tendency to sometimes fall back into old patterns. Absolutely. And I am learning and living this right alongside all of my clients. And so it comes with a lot of self compassion and grace. It comes with that commitment that I know what happens on the other side of a really great run. I know what happens when I don't get any movement in all week and how sluggish I feel.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And so sometimes it's just the reminder of it's been a couple of weeks and you've fallen off. That's okay. Let's acknowledge where we are and let's just get back on track and let's find ways to pepper in. Even if it's the 15 minute power walk and not the 45 minute run I would want to get in. Something is better than zero and so amen.

Speaker A: Seriously, it's a lot of just similar

Speaker C: to being a founder, similar to being a mom, you just kind of roll with it and having this regimented, perfect schedule is not possible. There's no such thing as perfect. So it's kind of just rolling with it but continuing to fall back on what I know to be true about what I need to say.

Speaker A: Well, mhm. I love that you mentioned the. It can be something, all or something versus all or nothing. Because we really do, whether it comes to our nutrition or our sleep or our workouts or work, when we don't have an idea of what something can look like, we go straight to nothing if we can't do it.

Speaker C: All right, Right. And as a recovering perfectionist. Absolutely. Lifelong. I'm sure this will be a lifelong practice for me. It used to be very binary. It used to be up, uh, the day's ruined because I didn't get this intensive workout in or oh, I ate

Speaker A: a donut so I might as well eat four more donuts.

Speaker C: It's over. Exactly. And then even with work wanting to go not only 100%, but above and beyond. And if I can't do that, what am I even doing? And so tolerating. It's actually really interesting because being a founder now has just forced me. There is no other, There is no other way. It's forced me to sit with a lot of discomfort that there's a whole bunch of places where the business isn't perfect. Again, I go back to there's no such thing as perfect. Yeah. But this expectation and bar that I've set for myself, there are just some places in the business where it's new and uh, it's not polished yet. And that's uncomfortable for me. But I've also, it's part of the journey is just like learning how to sit with that and understand that there's a bigger, it's actually teaching me a much bigger lesson of how I want to show up in life. And I think I've gotten a lot of grace from my community when I show up and I say, haven't sent this newsletter in three weeks because life and the amount of responses I get for people where that just really connects versus trying to be this robotic like we're a business and we don't miss a date. Um, I think people really connect with that.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, no, I'm with you. Because that's where most people are, is we're doing our best. And you know, I think about how growing up we're conditioned, especially women like, oh no, you need to be the A student, straight A student, you need to be the, you know, good girl, the, all of that stuff. And then we reach adulthood, especially professional lives where there's no such thing as the end of a to do list. Because there's always something that can be done and there's no such thing as an A in anything. It's literally just doing your best. And I've had to compare it to being okay with B minus work and knowing that it's the A, the continuous A's, that are actually gonna lead to your burnout.

Speaker C: And I think it's so interesting because so many of us grew up in this kind of lean in hustle era where it was A across the board, excellent everywhere with no stopping, with no pausing.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Forever go hard. And so I think there's also an acknowledgement that there are gonna be some places where you are showing up with excellence to make space for that. So it's not about lowering the bar to make space for that. There's gotta be a couple of B minuses to your point. And maybe there's some. I'd love to do this. It's just A, uh, not right now. And it's the complexion of how that all comes together. It's the constant grace. All right, Last week wasn't great. What are we doing to get back on track?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's the acknowledgement that something may not be ideal, but it's a work in progress that allows us actually to be, I think, more excellent in how we show up for everybody. Right. Because uh, we're a bit more regulated and we're right if we're trying to chase that A plus across everything we're doing. Quite frankly, in all of the conversations I have, every single day, every single week, we're showing up in a frazzled, overworked and really stressed out state and unfortunately then not really serving anybody well.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean if, if consistent A pluses mean that you're showing up as a shell of a person, that's, that's not gonna work.

Speaker C: And um, what are we doing?

Speaker A: And it's also, I think one of the most important things, and I know, I have a feeling you'll agree with this, is that it's just knowing the difference between what needs an A and what can be a B minus and what can be an F and just move on and not care.

Speaker C: Yeah. And then the tolerance that comes along with I'm going to have to let it go and it's going to be an F because that can be uncomfortable. It doesn't mean that it's not hard. It just means that, uh, you're learning to lean into some of that discomfort in some places.

Speaker A: You might have heard me Say that Get Organized HQ Virtual is happening in just a couple of weeks and past attendees say it is some of the best free content they found all year. Real strategies for decluttering, budgeting, meal planning, and building routines that actually stick. I'm speaking this year on how to stop procrastinating when you don't feel motivated. And the registration, it's still free, so head to abouttimepodcast.com gohq or check the show notes for this episode to grab your free ticket. Okay, so Alison, you're a founder and not just a founder. You are a very involved founder in this stage of your business.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: You are a mom. It is the thick of summer and you are also making sure to listen to yourself and take care of yourself in different ways in order to protect yourself from burnout. How exactly do you do all of that? Ah, give us the, give us the tools, give us the tactics that are working for you right now in this season.

Speaker C: Yeah. So first and foremost, as I mentioned, it is about honoring my wellbeing routines. I think every single season from a summer, fall, winter, spring perspective, that looks and feels different. So I have the benefit on the east coast to get out and walk and run and do more and be a bit more active in summer. And so I really want to lean into that.

Speaker A: Whereas down here in New Orleans, we're like all indoors, hiding from the heat and the humidity. So I am so envious of you for having those nice summers. Okay. Sorry to. Yes.

Speaker C: No, no, no, no. But then we're in the depths of winter. I'm outside of uh, Boston up here and the winters are rough. So, you know, trying to lean in when we can. But then. Yeah, so. And I kind of look at my week every single week and I'm realistic. That's the other thing. I, you know, it's not, I run on Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, non negotiable. It's what, it's kind of slotting in what's happening and making that work around my work commitments and my mom commitments.

Speaker A: I'll say.

Speaker C: I actually just this week went through an exercise of looking out at my calendar in the midst of back half planning. I was in the midst of uh, an 18 month planning sprint plan, replanning some revenue goals. And then I forecast it out the next six, eight weeks and I realized I was over committed. And so one of the hardest things for me to do is say no to somebody or to move out a commitment. I do a lot of networking calls. I've always been very active in communities, mentoring Other founders mentoring other women. I, unfortunately, because I love doing it, have to put some of that stuff on pause this summer because my time is more compressed with camp schedules. And so just from a. Before we get into more of the tactics, it's about being realistic with what does the schedule look like? What are the top priorities for Unburnt From a family perspective, what's on our summer bucket list? Right. And just kind of, again, taking a look at what I already committed to and signed up for is just a little bit overly ambitious.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: How am I going to sort of move some of the pieces around?

Speaker A: So that. That brings about another really important question that I think a lot of women struggle with. And it's. How do you know what is actually realistic? Because something may feel completely realistic in the moment, but maybe our. What is it? Our eyes are bigger than our stomachs and we fill our plate so full, but then we, once we get in the thick of it, we can't. We can't actually handle all of it. And then we end up either trying to do everything not well, being frazzled, or we have to make some really tough decisions that could have been avoided with a little more planning and forethought. So how do you determine what's realistic and what's not?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's really about aligning my time and where I'm, um, spending it against the biggest goals.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And so that sounds really basic, but when you strip that down, it means on a very regular basis, weekly, sometimes biweekly, I'm looking at the top goals for the business. So let's stick with Unburnt for a second. Looking at the top goals for the business, the activities I aligned for that month or the past couple of weeks against those goals. Right. So they're kind of milestones broken down. And then I'm looking at the activities and the calendar. Inevitably, clients want to move calls around. New things pop up. I just released research at the beginning of April, and there was a whole flurry of really exciting activity associated with that, but that was unanticipated. So we'll talk about the how do you recalibrate in a second? But I'm constantly toggling back to what are my goals and how am I spending my time against those goals.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And the trick there is that I think for a lot of women, we can set the goals and then we can overstuff the goals and priorities. And that's really exciting. But then I think it is about the recalibration of. Let me take a look Back at the last two, three, four weeks. Let me look at my calendar. How did I spend my time? Were there activities in my business or at my job that actually took longer than I anticipated? And so how am I kind of recalibrating and leaving some buffer? Because in our modern world, we all over schedule. It's not a judgment. We all think, I can cram it in back to back, I can get something done in 30 minutes. And then we realize that actually, no, that thing is probably going to take an hour or I had no time to go to the bathroom. I was back to back. So we don't leave ourself that buffer and that margin. We actually started this recording by me saying I had to run back to the kitchen to get my water and I had to, you know, yes, we're both here hydrated, but I just didn't want to start the call without my water. Yeah, old me would have been like, water. What Water?

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Did we even drink water as kids? I mean, now we're adults. Like, we can't, can't live without our water close by. But I, um, don't really remember drinking water as a kid.

Speaker C: But,

Speaker A: but no, I, I hear you. Um, I think that when you have truly experienced burnout, and the thing is, is like, I don't want people to have to experience burnout to understand their limits and know what they need to put in place because that tends to be how it happens. I mean, I too had my burnout episode of, you know, 2015 that then led to me doing this type of work in the name of helping prevent burnout in other women. And I know that if I don't have lunch as a calendar appointment in my Google Calendar, it. I'm, um, I'm not just going to naturally give myself that space. I know what my default is. And it's like I have to protect myself against. I have to protect myself from that default mode, which would just be to keep working.

Speaker C: Yes. And I think for a lot of women this sounds surprising. So there's a two prong here. Uh, the first is it can feel really counterintuitive to say you have to break down your calendar and build in some of those sort of rests. The lunch, the step away from my computer and just take a 15 minute walk, even take a five minute walk, but give it, give yourself a screen break. That can feel so counterintuitive because we think, oh my gosh, I, uh, have so much to do. How could I possibly take a break? Right. I have that hard stop at 3:30 to go, do camp pickup. How could I possibly stop? The reality is once you have that panic moment, you're starting to edge into overdrive, overwork, stress. And so that's, that's a signal, that's something to really pay attention to. And so again, I'll come back to it, it sounds counterintuitive. How could I possibly break. That's when you need it the most.

Speaker A: That's when you need the most.

Speaker C: Having foresight to build in some of those buffers, not blow right past them and keep that margin built into the schedule is really the trick. Because once you have a day of back to back meetings, it's really hard to cancel. Right. You don't wanna cancel on people same day. But if you, you're maintaining those buffers, it's a consistent ongoing practice of making sure you have that margin built in.

Speaker A: So this then brings me to the idea of uh, how can you know in advance what your limit is? So like let's say there's somebody listening who has never experienced burnout before and they don't want it because it does not look good, it's not a good look. Or someone has, is listening who is on the uh, is on the other side of burnout and wants to rebuild their working tendencies in a new way.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: How can we understand what our capacity even is?

Speaker C: Yeah, so it's one of the core practices that I bring to individuals as well as to teams and to companies. And that is really building a practice around awareness. And so without going into the full exercise, I think the key headline takeaway is that we have to first notice. And so for people, they're starting to

Speaker A: feel a little overwhelmed.

Speaker C: They've never quite experienced burnout. They don't want to get there, certainly don't want them to. It's about actually tracking what you have on your plate, tracking your stressors. And so there's one particular exercise where even from a team perspective there's a weekly practice of naming the constraints, naming the stressors. And there's science and research behind taking something, especially when it feels as big and as amorphous as the word burnout or stress, naming it, breaking it down and then being, being able to, that helps us stop the stress response that's going on. And to get back to a place of emotional regulation where we can then build a plan, have some agency change stuff on the calendar. We can't do that when we're in a state of overdrive and total dysregulation. We're just tactically doing the next thing, Right. And that we are absolutely in fight or flight mode. So the first thing is noticing. So even if you're not quite in that chronic burnout, this has been happening for months and months, but you're starting to notice that you've had a few really busy weeks. You know, you're feeling that overwhelm and you can't quite get your arms around what it is. I encourage people to start thinking about a daily check in. It can just be a prompt that you run through, a couple of simple questions you can ask yourself at the end of the day. But it's a quick retroactive. What's my stress level? 1 to 10, what's my energy level? 1 to 10. What am I actually stressed about? Right. So this is a key one and it can sound very basic, but when you are jotting down, all right, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I've been saying that on repeat. Let me sit down. What is it that I'm stressed about that's giving you information? And from there, it's about really understanding what's at the root. Because sometimes we are stressed about a big meeting, but underneath that, it's because we want to show up and do our very best. Maybe we have a promotion on the line, maybe we have a new team member that we really, really want to make sure is getting ramped up. And so we're putting a lot of pressure on ourselves. When you get at the root of not only what the stressor is, but the why, it's really powerful information. And in that process, by naming, you are slowing that stress response. You are getting back to regulation, where again, you can then make the plan. I've got too much on my plate. These are the top three things that I'm either most worried about or I care most about. How am I allocating my time against those things? And so it's a very simple practice. The piece that's important is the data you're collecting, right? So if you're now pre burnout, but you're saying over the course of two, three, four weeks, you're ranging from like a five to six to seven stress every single day, you may want to sit with that and sort of reflect back on your log, reflect back on what are the stressors, because you might not classify that yet as burnout, but that's information that, like, hang on, yellow flag, red flag. Let me, let me take a beat and go a bit deeper into why this pattern is showing up.

Speaker A: I think this is so brilliant and it's an important reminder because it's easy to say I'm overwhelmed.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: And stop. And I find that that is what many people are inclined to do. It's. I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so overwhelmed. But what exactly is it that is causing the overwhelm? Is it multiple things? Is it one key thing and what I didn't realize, because when I do this walk through with clients who are overwhelmed, I'll have them. So what. What is. What has you feeling overwhelmed? If we're taking each thing and it's a stone and we're putting in a bucket, like, what is each stone? Because that's what enables us to then make a plan in order to do something. But what I'm hearing from you is that even just the act of pausing, reflecting, and articulating what is contributing to the overwhelm results in a decrease in stress itself.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Cool.

Speaker C: Yes. And there's lots of. Lots of studies, uh, so I can point you to a few of the papers, but it's very, you know, it's. It's evidence based, and it's all. This is something that we can boil to down and I'll do. Right. So everything you just played back. Yes. And we all have the power to do something about this, whether it's. I don't have time to sit and journal, but I can maybe reflect on these questions in the car on the way to pick up the kids. Right. Like these are all. And that's why within unburned, I've made all of the microhabits very accessible, very simple, rooted in science, but so that it can become consistent. Because when we're edging into burnout, if we're recovering from, the last thing we have time for is overhauling everything.

Speaker A: Exactly. Like we. We cannot become even more overwhelmed trying to fix our overwhelm.

Speaker C: Correct. And so the practices have to be simple. They have to be straightforward. They have to work. But they have to be things that we can incorporate and make consistent so that we're in this preventative space versus crisis. Oh, my gosh. I've got to overdra overhaul, um, everything. Excuse me.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Let's do a daily check in. In order to avoid checking into a hospital.

Speaker C: Yes. It's a great way to summarize the whole thing. Yes.

Speaker A: Okay, so you shared the. The daily kind of end of day check in. What are my stress levels? What's my energy level, like, scale of 1 to 10, and how over time, that gives you data that you can. Then if you notice a pattern, you can kind of dig into it what's another microhabit that we could consider incorporating if we're feeling maybe that we're getting closer to burnout?

Speaker C: Yeah. So another one that's really easy. And this is something that can be sort of a, uh, real time reframe, if you will. Something you can call up. Doesn't have to be a sit. A sit down session of writing down a practice is actually in response to something that just happened that feels very stressful. Right. So the daily check in is hopefully preventing and it's allowing you to reflect, plan, and then change things if needed. This one is just a five minute quick. Oh my gosh, that was a really heavy charge meeting. Something, you know, stressful. A big event just happened. This is a practice where I call it the real time reframe. And so there's four really simple prompts. Again, you can write it if you're someone who loves to just get it out of your brain. Or again, you can call it up mentally. But the first thing is deep breath, right. Take a beat. It's enabling that physical, the physiological response of lowering the stress. It's giving you a beat to pause. And then you're going to think about what just happened. You're going to name it again. We talked about the science of naming and how that also slows the stress response.

Speaker A: Really charged beating. So deep breath. That was a really charged meeting. I didn't appreciate what he said to me in that moment.

Speaker C: And we're not exactly. And then we're not suppressing it, we're not pushing it down. We're not onto the next. Layering more stress on top of something that we didn't fully process. And so yes, we're, we're naming it and we're reflecting on the thing that just happened. Then we're gonna maybe reframe it. This is where the five minute reframe comes up. What else could have been true? Right. And so maybe it's. We didn't all come in with the same facts.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And so we got into a little bit of a contentious debate. But actually, let me think about this. I had a report that not everyone else had or I had no information and I felt like I was coming in blind. Right. And so it's about taking a beat to slow down, reflect on the, the moment. I say to my kids all the time, by the way, let's assume positive intent when they, when they're, they're fighting. And so it's kind of thinking, you know, through that lens, what else could have been true? How Could I maybe have gotten this wrong? One of the things that happens when we're stressed is that, uh, we don't have access to empathy, compassion. And so this process of both slowing the stress response and forcing a little bit of empathy, what else could have been true? What maybe did I miss? Is also helping us get back to emotional regulation and a space where we can again, make a plan or just take a little bit more of a beat if we need to, but not go into the next thing we have feeling elevated. Okay, so. So that was step three. Book ahead. Yes.

Speaker A: When. When we, when we are stressed, we do not have access to empathy, compassion.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Was there something else? Or is it just like we don't have access to empathy and compassion?

Speaker C: So in our stress response, we're operating in our amygdala, we're not operating from our prefrontal cortex. And in that stress response, when we are operating again in reaction, we absolutely lose access to executive functioning, to processing, to planning, to decision making. That's why this is so critical for workplaces. To empathy, to compassion, we become more cynical. Right. And so I often talk to teams about this is not only just an individual, how we're each showing up, how we're each feeling, this is how we're interacting with each other. And it's not a judgment on. Everyone became more negative overnight for no reason. When we're operating in a space where everybody's walking around overwhelmed, burnt out. It is a biological response. We are becoming more negative and cynical. And according to the World Health Organization, that second piece of the definition is that you are becoming more negative and cynical as a hallmark of burnout. Right. And so this being able to see the positive intent, or how did I get this situation wrong? Is not possible when we are chronically stressed.

Speaker A: No, I'm just thinking right now about how it's no wonder when we are stressed that we snap at others, that we're short, that we snap at our kids, which then leads to guilt. Oh, I'm a bad mom. No, babe, you are just so stressed that you have decreased ability to access those parts of your brain that power, compassion, and empathy. I mean, when you think about how stressed teams are all across, corporate America, small business owners, I mean, uh, we're living in a stress epidemic. It's a wonder that anybody's able to make really solid decisions.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's one of the. And it was why I wanted to dig into the research to understand not only what's happening. Right. So are people burnt out? Is there a higher propensity of stress. Let's uh, look across industries, let's look across levels. Burnout's high. There's tons of research that's showing that it's continuing to rise.

Speaker A: Yeah, nobody's arguing with that.

Speaker C: Yeah, unfortunately. And it's, yeah, it is an epidemic as you said. I was really curious to dig into what's driving it within the workplace. Is it modifiable? And if we play this forward, if burnout is high, how is it impacting capacity? How is it impacting empathy, resilience, psychological safety? And so we looked at a number of constructs because I was really curious. We want people to be. Well, you know, one of my fundamental beliefs and why I started Unburnt, um, is that when we're working, we, and, and we don't have the capacity to overhaul for ourselves. There should be support to have employees be surrounded in what they need to do their best work. Everyone wants to go to work and show up and do their best work. But when you're overwhelmed, that's really hard to figure out on your own in a silo. So that's kind of part one. But part two is that we're not collaborating, we're not doing our best work as a team if we are collectively stressed or pockets of the team are completely overwhelmed. And so I was really curious about how that impacted the individual, but how it also impacted the collective and the knock on effect to company value, to transformation and innovation. And so what we looked at was ah, this new construct called innovation capacity. Because I wanted to look at beyond productivity, beyond activity, short term. Are people busy? We know everyone is. Do they have the cognitive space for long term strategic thinking, for problem solving, for collaboration and how does that get impacted when burnout is high? And so that was, that was a big part of the research and sort of why I wanted to dig in.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So one of the things that I love about these conversations so much is that they have the ability to go in so many different directions. And we started with you giving a four step microhabit to, to implement. Whenever we are in that, like we're coming off of that high stress moment. And so first we take a deep breath, then we name what just happened. We, you know, we, we state it like, hey, I was in a very charged meeting, did not appreciate what he said to me. And then part three is to consider what else could be true. Assume positive intent. Okay, well maybe I didn't have the same information or maybe I was the only one with that information because that enables you to kind of get out of that stress mode and consider the other possibilities. Okay.

Speaker C: And it's a forcing function for that empathy piece. Right? It's like, oh, uh, forcing function.

Speaker A: Okay. So that switches on your empathy because you're forcing yourself to consider the other people involved in the stressful situation. Okay. Don't leave us on a cliffhanger. What's step four?

Speaker C: And you are such an amazing. Oh, my gosh. Remembering four. Cause I would have just kept going on about teams. But step four is a, uh, practice that is yours. So it's a way to close the loop. It's a way to say, okay, let me get a drink of water, let me go take a quick walk. We might not always have the luxury of having a full recovery block, but it's something that feels restorative. It's closing that four step loop with something that you name. It's a, ah, I'm gonna step away from my computer. I'm going to get a breath of fresh air because I haven't stepped outside all day. You get to choose, um, within the time package that you have to do something, but it's about something restorative, Quick breath, work, water, a walk, and you're kind of closing out that loop.

Speaker A: I love it. So tell me this. If someone wanted to make their final step, um, going into a supply closet and screaming, would that be. Would that be recommended or not recommended?

Speaker C: I mean, I'm not going to put a judgment on yes or no. I think it is yours to decide.

Speaker A: Okay, perfect. I just wanted to make sure that screaming was still allowed in case that's something that anyone leans on. So here's my big question. Let's say that you are someone who is doing everything you can on your own to burn out. Proof yourself that you are checking in with yourself daily, that you are, um, taking advantage of that force, that five minute reframe that you just shared. Four steps, five minute reframe. That you are moving your body, that you are meditating or doing breath work. Like you are doing the work, but you work in a culture that is, uh, teeming with burnout, that you work in one of those cultures and that you as one person are, uh, just trying to keep your head above water. In this culture that you are in, what can that person even do besides leave? Like, how, how do you handle that?

Speaker C: It's very contextual based on the person, the team, their manager, the season that they're in, all of it, personally and professionally. So the first thing I would recommend is assess the full landscape. Right. Is This a particularly busier season for our business. Do I have any sort of light at the end of the tunnel? Right. We're in just a period where we're grinding, but I see. I see the path to it slowing down. How comfortable am I talking to my manager and being able to raise some of this? Does it feel safe enough to do so? Will there. Will there be broader repercussions? So there's, uh. You kind of have to take stock of multiple factors, but I think it is about first thinking through what is at my disposal right now. Can I have that conversation? Can I become a little bit more comfortable with a few more B minuses? That's hard, right? As, uh, high achievers, maybe you look back and you say, I was staying up till midnight trying to do the A plus work across five projects, and it's okay that the top two are A's, and I'm gonna drop down to a B. You know, that's hard. That's hard to necessarily say, lower your bar on a podcast. And everyone's like, okay, great. That's gonna.

Speaker A: I hear you. Yeah.

Speaker C: But it's. It's really about assessing the whole situation. And so I never wanna say out the gate, it's, if it's a toxic environment, you have to leave. But it's, uh, a consideration that you have to take. How long has this been happening? Do I feel stuck? I can't talk to my manager. You know, do I have an avenue potentially to move internally? But there is that consideration around. Am I deploying everything within my disposal to stay relatively stable, such that if I move to the next situation, do I feel like I have a toolkit?

Speaker B: Do I feel.

Speaker C: Because, look, the inevitable thing is that stress is a part of life. That's true. And I think, especially for ambitious women, we want to work hard, we want to do good work. And so it is that balance, if you will, of, uh, what's in my toolkit, and then am I set up for success in my environment? And that's a very personal review. The other thing I'll say is that for a lot of women, it can be very hard to leave and admit, you know what? Uh, this is just not the right environment, myself included. There can be guilt, there can be grief. And I think it's okay. I just want to sort of name this last piece. It's okay to say, you know what? I've done my very best. I have. I feel like I'm in a pretty stable place. It's the environment. It's not me. So Often we take that on as a personal failure. And, uh, so I would say if you feel like you've done the work and you've explored some options and you ultimately know it's just not the right environment, it is absolutely okay to name that and say, I'm gonna move on and I'm gonna find a place where I'm better set up for success.

Speaker A: Yes. Yes. That's so good. Consider the full landscape. Consider your options. Do you feel safe talking to a manager without repercussions?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: And understand that when it is the culture, it is not your fault. You did not do anything wrong. I mean, I remember thinking back to my burnout experience and I just, I felt like I was going crazy, Allison. Like I was working. I was getting to work at some 6 o' clock in the morning and staying late and working in the evenings and could never, could never catch up, could never do anything to the level that my supervisor wanted it done. Even worse, she had that job before I did. And, um, and I remember I started going to therapy because I had, I had never really seen a therapist before. And I, I was working with, with this therapist named Beth that I remember just explaining to her my situation. And I'm just like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't know what's wrong with me. I just can't keep up. I can't do it. And, you know, little by little, explaining the situation, she finally told me, like, no, Anna, you were. You are in a toxic work environment.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: This is, this is not you. This is not a you problem. This is the environment that you're in. And that was one of the, that was probably the first time I ever, I, uh, guess realized that, oh, wait, so it's not me? Because we're so quick to assume that there's something wrong with us.

Speaker C: Yes. And not only is it not your fault, you cannot be expected to fix it on your own. That's the other piece that I think is really important to, to state that when it's toxic and you can't even have an honest conversation, you can't possibly be expected to individually fix it.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Oh, my gosh, Allison, this has been such an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for your time today for sharing such, you know, tangible things that we can do ourselves. From the end of day check in to the five minute reframe. It's just been so incredibly helpful. I know that this conversation is going to be just huge to women who are listening, who are navigating burnout who are trying to avoid it and who are in toxic work environments. So how can we continue to learn from you and stay in touch?

Speaker C: Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much. This has been such a fun conversation. I've so enjoyed it. And if you want to stay in touch, you can find me on LinkedIn. That's where I hang out the most. Uh, you can come Visit the website www.getunburnt.com or, uh, you can find Get Unburnt on Instagram.

Speaker A: Awesome. I will link all of that in the show notes so we can find you, follow you, stay in touch and keep learning from you. Alison, thank you again for your time. This has been awesome.

Speaker C: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: So there you have it. A conversation that reminds us burnout is not a personal failing, it's information. Here are a few things I want you to hold onto. First, protecting your time and energy takes constant recalibrating. Not a perfect system. Allison said herself she doesn't have a playbook. She just keeps coming back to it with grace. Second, you do not need an A on everything. Some things can really can be A, uh, B minus. And that's not lowering your standards. It's what makes room for excellence where it actually counts. And third, when you're doing everything right and you're still drained, it might not be you, it might be the environment that you're in. And that's worth naming, honestly. Huge thanks. Big thanks, giant. Thanks to Allison Campbell for joining me in sharing her insights, her research, and her own story so openly. As always, you can find all the details from this episode, including how to stay in touch with Alison over on LinkedIn, her website and Instagram. Learn all about Unburnt over in the Show Notes. And this week's show notes can be found@abouttimepodcast.com 337. And if this episode hit home for you, I would love for you to let me know. Send me a DM over on Instagram nadcornick and tell me which of Allison's tools you're going to try first. Whether it's the daily check in or the real time reframe, I would genuinely love to hear from you. All right, my friends, I'll see you next week. And until then, keep making time for what matters most.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening to It's About Time, a podcast about work, life and balance. Head over to www.abouttimepodcast.com to join the conversation. Check out the show notes and dive into bonus content so you can start living your best life today. Love this episode. Be sure to share it with a friend. Subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you in the next episode.