Indy Adenaw, SVP & General Manager, Upscale Brands Division, Choice Hotels International interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

1 - > Dorothy Dowling: Indy, welcome to It's Personal Stories. 2 - > I'm so pleased to have you here. 3 - > At It's Personal Stories, we focus on the human side of 4 - > leadership, the experiences, choices, inflection points, and 5 - > personal disciplines that shape how leaders grow, adapt, and 6 - > show up over time. 7 - > Your career brings together so many dimensions of our industry 8 - > that I know will be meaningful for our audience.

9 - > You've worked across global brand strategy, international 10 - > development, hospitality innovation, new venture 11 - > creation, and now upscale brand leadership at Choice Hotels. 12 - > You have helped shape and reposition brands, worked across 13 - > different geographies and business models, and spent much 14 - > of your career thinking about where hospitality is headed, not 15 - > where it has been. 16 - > So I'm especially looking forward to today because I think 17 - > it's going to layer a very deep conversation.

18 - > I'd love to understand the personal journey behind your 19 - > professional accomplishments, including the experiences that 20 - > shaped your worldview, your move between markets and cultures, 21 - > how your time in England and the U.S. 22 - > influenced your leadership lens, and how you think about 23 - > hospitality today through the eyes of owners, investors, 24 - > operators, brands, and guests. 25 - > We'll also talk about how the industry is shifting, 26 - > particularly as owners and private equity and institutional 27 - > investors continue to influence how success is measured and what 28 - > that means for brand leaders, commercial teams, and the next 29 - > generation of hospitality talent.

30 - > So with that as our backdrop, Indy, let's start with your 31 - > journey. 32 - > You've had a career that has crossed strategy, brand 33 - > building, development, innovation, and now broader 34 - > operating leadership. 35 - > When you look back, what first drew you into the industry, and 36 - > when did you realize this could become a long tier... 37 - > long-term career path for you?

38 - > Indy Adenaw: Sure. 39 - > First I just wanna s- really say thank you for having me. 40 - > It's it's an honor to be here. 41 - > When I think about my journey it really started with my 42 - > upbringing.

43 - > My father was in the airline business. 44 - > I was born in one of the poorer places of the world in Ethiopia, 45 - > but by virtue of his his, job, we were able to travel to places 46 - > I could never imagine. 47 - > We were always exploring, always hopping from one place to 48 - > another. 49 - > And in that I generated just a love of travel and a f- a love 50 - > of adventure.

51 - > So after business school, I went into consulting, and then when a 52 - > job at Marriott popped up, it just felt like a full circle 53 - > moment. 54 - > It was an opportunity for me to get into a sector that I have 55 - > long loved. 56 - > And one of the things I have appreciated the most about this 57 - > business is that it combines everything. 58 - > There's an operational element, there's a technology element, 59 - > there's a real estate.

60 - > A- and so every day feels like you're working on a different 61 - > piece of the puzzle or a different piece of the tapestry. 62 - > And it's been a, it's been a real pleasure to have been on 63 - > the journey I've had in hospitality. 64 - > Dorothy Dowling: Were there any particular inflection points in 65 - > sort of those early defining moments of your career that 66 - > really shaped some of your leadership and business 67 - > approach, Indy? 68 - > Indy Adenaw: To be frank, the first I don't know, five, six, 69 - > seven years of my career, I felt like I played it generally safe.

70 - > I was trying to make sure I didn't really do anything that 71 - > was going to put a big spotlight on me or potentially make a 72 - > mistake. 73 - > When I joined Marriott I really gave myself, just a vow which 74 - > was I wanted to roll the dice a bit and just see what I could 75 - > accomplish. 76 - > And so I started in a role that was really support-oriented. 77 - > It was in the project management office.

78 - > But slowly but surely, I kept on raising my hand for, complicated 79 - > projects that would come up, whether it was, can we grow in 80 - > Africa? 81 - > And so I went and spent a ton of time with a team in the Middle 82 - > East to, to figure out how we were going to grow and how we 83 - > were going to push forward. 84 - > Then I raised my hand to start a number of brands for Marriott. 85 - > I will say I was lucky to have had some leaders around me that 86 - > probably saw potential in me.

87 - > But I would say this moment of just keep trying new things 88 - > until you have proven to yourself you cannot do it was 89 - > really an inflection point to me because it made me much more 90 - > adventurous about the kinds of things and the kinds of jobs, 91 - > the kinds of projects that that I did within at least within my, 92 - > the Marriott section of my career. 93 - > Dorothy Dowling: I think that element of putting your hand up 94 - > and taking some level of risk in your career is a really 95 - > important inflection point for everyone to understand,'cause I 96 - > think it really tests you.

97 - > And it also really shows what you can accomplish to the 98 - > organization that you're working for. 99 - > So thank you for sharing that. 100 - > I wonder if we can talk a little bit about the cross-cultural 101 - > nature of your education and your career, Indy,'cause I do 102 - > think that brings a very interesting and unique 103 - > perspective to what you do. 104 - > So I'm wondering as you move between markets and cultures, 105 - > how did that shape you in terms of how you look at business, 106 - > people, leadership?

107 - > Indy Adenaw: It has probably framed my thinking more than I 108 - > could explain. 109 - > As I mentioned, I was born in Ethiopia and then after a year 110 - > or two we moved to Yemen of all places in the Middle East. 111 - > And then after a number of years back in Ethiopia, we moved to 112 - > the United Kingdom and then to the US. 113 - > These are four countries with four very different cultural 114 - > systems.

115 - > There were four very different political systems and four very 116 - > just different ways of how business was done. 117 - > And I think through all of these changes I learned somewhat the 118 - > ability to actually relate to the environments around me. 119 - > I learned the realization that there's actually never really 120 - > singularly one way of doing something, that people bring to 121 - > them lessons from either their own upbringing, their own 122 - > environment, and I think it made me much more aware of my 123 - > surroundings.

124 - > And even in my job today at Choice the spectrum of people I 125 - > meet on a daily basis, whether it's an owner that is a, an 126 - > entrepreneur that has emigrated from somewhere else, whether it 127 - > is a management company or a GM that has been part of their 128 - > community for 30, 40, 50 years, I find a lot of my job is just 129 - > listening and relating to people, understanding their 130 - > backgrounds, understanding their desires their passions. 131 - > And I think the journey I went from went through from one 132 - > country to another really instilled in me that, that 133 - > ability to to just listen and relate to to the wide spectrum 134 - > of people I come across 135 - > Dorothy Dowling: I think that's really important, and I do think 136 - > some of that foundational learning that you had in terms 137 - > of just the broad range of differences gives you a unique 138 - > perspective to understand people in a very special way.

139 - > I'm wondering if you were talking to our audience that are 140 - > interested in more global careers, what do you think they 141 - > need to learn beyond the technical skills of the business 142 - > to propel them in that direction? 143 - > Indy Adenaw: W- the thing I find fascinating, a- and I've seen 144 - > this industry across a wide number of countries, in that the 145 - > hotels themselves look similar more so than not. 146 - > The actual... 147 - > If you look at the financials, they can differ from country to 148 - > country, but in the background, you have very different 149 - > approaches of of just how hotel owners come together, how 150 - > lending is done, how trust is created between various parties.

151 - > And for me, it was just important to actually just go 152 - > explore any opportunity to see how hospitality operated outside 153 - > of outside of the United States. 154 - > As I mentioned, I did a fair amount of work in the Middle 155 - > East, and then that translated to more work in in Europe and 156 - > then further afield from that. 157 - > But for me the... 158 - > Y- you really have to have a curiosity and an ability to 159 - > actually just really, seek to understand as much as you can 160 - > about the business outside of where we are.

161 - > I will also say the globalization of hospitality, I 162 - > think, is fascinating. 163 - > When you think of where capital comes from how management 164 - > companies in the US now are moving to Europe we have a 165 - > sector that is evolving in so many ways globally. 166 - > I think watching it unfold is just, is absolutely fascinating. 167 - > Dorothy Dowling: I do think that framework of seeking to 168 - > understand, which of course is one of Stephen Covey's seven 169 - > principles, is- Is really important because I do think it 170 - > is about letting individuals share sort of their perspectives 171 - > with you first, which I think then gives you an opportunity to 172 - > frame things back.

173 - > And I do think being open to seeing that a lot of things 174 - > behind the scenes can be done very differently. 175 - > The methods may be the same, but how people get there may be very 176 - > different. 177 - > So I think- Yeah that's very helpful to individuals. 178 - > I'm wondering if we can talk about your strategic thought 179 - > leadership because that's one of the things that, for me, that 180 - > thread through your career is your ability to connect dots 181 - > across all the different things that you've done: brands, 182 - > consumer behavior, development, investment, operating realities.

183 - > I'm - I would love to understand how you personally stay sharp as 184 - > a strategic thinker to stay on top of your game. 185 - > Indy Adenaw: I think it, so much of it is fueled by just being 186 - > curious and just wanting to understand where this business 187 - > is going and what related industries could have some hints 188 - > of what the future holds for us. 189 - > And so I find myself very hungry to read as much as I can. 190 - > If it's an interesting article, if it's an interesting report, I 191 - > wanna try and absorb everything I can from food and beverage to, 192 - > where technology's going to, what impact AI can have on our 193 - > business.

194 - > I also use every opportunity I have with an owner to say,"What 195 - > are you seeing? 196 - > What's giving you angst or hope or, some curiosity on how you 197 - > push forward?" And I... 198 - > You would think on some level some of this would dampen as 199 - > your career gets farther afield, but I find myself now even 200 - > hungrier to just, to really understand where we're heading.

201 - > And that's one thing I've generally said to people that 202 - > are younger in their career of be hungry to learn and if you 203 - > have a curious mind, continue to cultivate how you think about 204 - > all of the things you look at and all of the things you, you 205 - > learn. 206 - > I think one of the more dangerous things in our industry 207 - > is if you feel the way something has been done before should be 208 - > the way it's going to be done in the future. 209 - > I think that's a trap that can really confine your thinking and 210 - > the actions that you you deploy.

211 - > Dorothy Dowling: I love the statement on curiosity'cause 212 - > there was a Harvard Business Review article that was written, 213 - > I don't know, 10 years ago that talked about the journey where 214 - > leadership was valued first on people's IQ and then it evolved 215 - > to people's EQ, and now it really is about people's CQ, 216 - > their curiosity quotient, and that learning approach to 217 - > staying relevant. 218 - > And I love the way you brought the thought leadership in terms 219 - > of how reading is important, of course Warren Buffett always has 220 - > shared that with us, that was a really important part of his 221 - > day.

222 - > But then just learning from others and really asking the 223 - > kind of questions that you do, Indy, so that we can learn from 224 - > others and make them comfortable in terms of sharing perspective. 225 - > I do think that elevates our game in pretty significant ways. 226 - > I'm wondering if there's any signals that you particularly 227 - > track to stay on top of your game in how you do your work 228 - > today 229 - > Indy Adenaw: Signals I've seen more I'm deeply curious about 230 - > analogs, like especially analogs from industries that are also 231 - > facing a fair amount of like change and disruption.

232 - > So each time I'm in a mall I'll see how retail stores are set 233 - > up. 234 - > If I'm in a restaurant I'll be paying attention to what kind of 235 - > customers are coming in. 236 - > So I tend to really look outside of our industry as much as I 237 - > look inside of it. 238 - > And so the, for example fast casual restaurants, I'm 239 - > absolutely fascinated by how much of the business now comes 240 - > through drive-throughs versus people walking in.

241 - > How that whole experience has now changed where you have two 242 - > lanes versus one how they deal with distribution. 243 - > And so I, I find that so many lessons of, that I think are 244 - > instrumental to us are going to come from industries that are to 245 - > our side, and I think we experience them so much on a 246 - > day-to-day basis. 247 - > For me, just even a trip out to the mall or a trip out to get 248 - > something for my kids is an example of of a lesson you can 249 - > pick up or some kind of insight you can you can use potentially 250 - > in your work.

251 - > Dorothy Dowling: I love the framing of analogs, and I will 252 - > tell you I'm a big believer. 253 - > I tell everyone that, we're always on an anthropological 254 - > journey in terms of the observations in life. 255 - > So I think the way you express that and just being aware, 256 - > because I still love sitting in lobbies in hotels and- Yeah 257 - > looking at the customers that are coming in and observing the 258 - > differences in them and how they're interacting with the 259 - > experience.

260 - > So I do think it's that curiosity, but it's also looking 261 - > at the things that are right in front of us and always having 262 - > that mindset of what should we be paying attention to here? 263 - > So thank you for framing that up so beautifully for us, Indy. 264 - > I'd like to talk a little bit about the industry and the 265 - > investment side because there's been- a lot of change in that 266 - > space in terms of private equity, REITs owners, and then 267 - > of course, people that are coming in from other real estate 268 - > types of investments like family offices and some of the 269 - > institutional investors.

270 - > So I'd like to talk a little bit about some of the metrics that 271 - > have been more traditional in terms of how we evaluated 272 - > performance, and understand where you think the industry is, 273 - > or when you're speaking with the owners, investors, what is the 274 - > metrics that they are really looking at in terms of what's 275 - > important to them? 276 - > Indy Adenaw: Absolutely. 277 - > A- and honestly one of the joys I have a choice is I spend a lot 278 - > of time with our owners and our operators.

279 - > And so I find the journey, whether it's like a, 280 - > conversation that's generated by opportunity or challenge to 281 - > always be meaningful when you sit down with somebody. 282 - > And I will generally say we went through a pretty long bull run 283 - > where most people were making money and RevPAR was continuing 284 - > to grow. 285 - > I find now so much of the conversation, at least from the 286 - > owner side, is about profitability and whether 287 - > whether this business continues to make sense for them.

288 - > So they continue to ask about where's, how are we generating 289 - > revenue? 290 - > Where is that revenue coming from? 291 - > How long a- and what does it mean for their P&Ls that is it 292 - > coming through our channels? 293 - > Is it coming through other channels?

294 - > What's the mix of customers that we have? 295 - > What's the mix of owners that we have? 296 - > And so I think the industry has evolved from just thinking about 297 - > revenue at an aggregate level to perhaps a much more 298 - > sophisticated understanding of not only revenue, but the cost 299 - > of revenue as, as well. 300 - > So I will say the, on the ownership side, there's so much 301 - > more of a focus on profitability and and all of those related 302 - > metrics.

303 - > On the management company side, I joined this industry where a 304 - > good management company was just a s- strong operator. 305 - > It was somebody that could really handle all of the 306 - > dynamics that were happening on property. 307 - > But I think as technology has continued to evolve and explode 308 - > in some areas even management companies now are having to 309 - > think through what are our advanced capabilities. 310 - > Like what data insights, data mining type of capabilities do 311 - > we bring, and how do we serve owners?

312 - > And so I think owners, operating companies, and chains are all 313 - > having to change in very meaningful ways in a relatively 314 - > short period of time, just as as this industry evolves. 315 - > Dorothy Dowling: Yeah. 316 - > I love the way you spoke about the sophistication and the 317 - > growth of the different owner mindsets, and them really 318 - > looking at hotels as a real estate class, and is this the 319 - > right investment for me, or is it a different type of real 320 - > estate investment I should be making?

321 - > I also really like about how you talked about the understanding 322 - > of the sourcing of the business, the profitability of different 323 - > types of segments of business, long-term value creation of the 324 - > business. 325 - > So it really is a much more disciplined approach, and I 326 - > think there's much higher performance focus in terms of 327 - > what the business is like today and what it'll be like tomorrow. 328 - > So I'm wondering if there's anything that you can add in 329 - > terms of where the brand value needs to be in a world where 330 - > this capital is so much more disciplined and performance 331 - > expectations are so much more refined.

332 - > Indy Adenaw: Yeah, absolutely. 333 - > And I've now had the pleasure of being at Marriott, at currently 334 - > at Choice. 335 - > And I- I've gone to see a wide spectrum of both owners, 336 - > operating companies, brands I've worked on. 337 - > And really I think the question of what is the chain or what is 338 - > the brand adding has become more and more of a spotlight across- 339 - > Across all types of owners and across all types of chains.

340 - > And so there's we used to live in an environment where a brand 341 - > would have four, five, six signature moments that you would 342 - > replicate. 343 - > But as more and more of the attention now has gone towards 344 - > loyalty programs and the brands have taken slightly less of a 345 - > higher profile role, I think the questions I get from a lot of 346 - > owners is,"What is this brand doing for me? 347 - > What kind of customer are you attracting? 348 - > What attributes do you have?

349 - > How does it show up in certain channels? 350 - > And then what are your channels delivering?" And so I think the 351 - > pressure of, from an ownership standpoint of like, all right, 352 - > I've signed an agreement, and what am I getting in return has 353 - > just been much more of a spotlight the last couple of 354 - > years. 355 - > I personally am super energized by this because it's, These are 356 - > the moments where you have to really try and figure out, okay, 357 - > how are we adding value?

358 - > How are we delivering something of substance to to this 359 - > ownership group or this operating company? 360 - > I think the journey we're in right now really has a spotlight 361 - > particularly on chains around the value that are, that they 362 - > are creating. 363 - > Dorothy Dowling: Yeah. 364 - > I agree with everything you said, Indy, and I have to say 365 - > it's something that gives me a lot of excitement too, because I 366 - > fundamentally believe it's where commercial leaders- really get a 367 - > chance to stand out because it is really understanding how they 368 - > build that story and the value creation for the owners, as well 369 - > as understanding the business mix and how to really 370 - > operationalize that profitability that a brand can 371 - > bring that, that others may not.

372 - > So I love the way you framed about expectations and managing 373 - > those- and how we have to continue to be on this journey. 374 - > I wonder if we can talk a little bit, because now you're leading 375 - > a significant upscale portfolio for Choice Hotels, and that 376 - > requires a lot of balancing in terms of promise- around the 377 - > brand, the franchisee success in terms of operating those brands, 378 - > and then obviously the long-term growth and the overall asset 379 - > value.

380 - > So I'd love to understand from your point of view what does it 381 - > take personally to lead a brand portfolio today in a way that 382 - > it's inspiring for the ownership, it's inspiring for 383 - > the guests, it's inspiring for the teams that you lead? 384 - > I'd love to understand that leadership element of your role 385 - > today. 386 - > Indy Adenaw: Sure. 387 - > So I have been now at Choice for just about three years.

388 - > While Choice is most known for its mid-scale and upper 389 - > mid-scale business, I personally feel like I have the joy of 390 - > working for one of the best parts of the company in 391 - > representing some owners that I have become exceptionally close 392 - > to. 393 - > And so it has been a journey I've really enjoyed. 394 - > Just to give you a little bit of context, we have a couple of 395 - > primary brands, Cambria being our homegrown brand in the 396 - > upscale space.

397 - > We also have Radisson, which is a pretty sizable portfolio, and 398 - > then Ascend that is a large assortment of soft brands. 399 - > My conversations a lot with owners are mostly, I, 400 - > historically a brand leader was mostly focused on guest 401 - > experience. 402 - > And trying to figure out exactly how your brand is going to stand 403 - > out. 404 - > Was it distinct enough?

405 - > Was it differentiated enough? 406 - > But now my conversations are nearly all about how does the 407 - > brand perform? 408 - > How does it show up in certain channels? 409 - > What is the approach in loyalty?

410 - > What is the approach in in various parts of the business? 411 - > So I think the world of brand and the world of commercial have 412 - > become essentially one, one thing. 413 - > And in that I, I think lies so much opportunity to try and 414 - > figure out how does your brand really perform across various 415 - > types of digital or third-party channels? 416 - > What kind of customer audience is it getting?

417 - > What kind of lifestyle value do we think about? 418 - > And so these were not, in my mind, they were not questions 419 - > that were really at the forefront, I think in'17,'18, 420 - > '19. 421 - > But now they're the conversations you have to get 422 - > through every day. 423 - > And I personally love the debate of trying to figure out how are 424 - > you going to maximize performance for an owner that's 425 - > invested in a flag.

426 - > Dorothy Dowling: Yeah. 427 - > No, I think that's beautifully well said, and I think the 428 - > convergence of brand versus commercial leadership is really 429 - > where we are at today, and it does come down to the owners and 430 - > making sure that we're unlocking the right kind of commercial 431 - > return for them. 432 - > Thank you for walking us through that. 433 - > I'd love to talk a little bit about, some of the innovative 434 - > career that you had prior to some of the hotel work that 435 - > you're doing today when you were with Kayak and you've had the 436 - > opportunity to really look at different spaces that were, very 437 - > entrepreneurial and venture oriented.

438 - > I'm just wondering in terms of the work that you did and the 439 - > digital the business from Kayak, what did that teach you and how 440 - > does that sort of influence your leadership today? 441 - > Indy Adenaw: I've never really been shy or hesitant to take on, 442 - > either high difficulty projects or projects that had question 443 - > marks around them. 444 - > I think that's part of the thread of curiosity I mentioned. 445 - > And so when I joined Kayak, the, there was the period where the 446 - > company was really experimenting with actual hotels that were 447 - > going to be branded from a distribution channel.

448 - > Ultimately, that strategy did not pan out into scale, but I 449 - > found the experience of working for a distribution company to be 450 - > fascinating. 451 - > I think distribution companies are so focused on essentially 452 - > two problems. 453 - > How do you generate enough demand, and then how do you 454 - > convert it? 455 - > And then that, that element of actually just seeing a company 456 - > that was super focused on one part of the business was really 457 - > fascinating to me.

458 - > And I took away from that the gains and the advancements you 459 - > can make when you have focus, and when you can really try and 460 - > drive to a constrained set of outcomes. 461 - > And so while that particular part of my career did not 462 - > balloon into a brand that became hundreds, there were lessons 463 - > that were, I think, just as important as when I worked on 464 - > Moxy or Sheridan or other brands that had a longer tail to, to, 465 - > to their outcome.

466 - > Dorothy Dowling: Yeah. 467 - > I do think that whole element about demand and converting 468 - > demand is a central question that we all have today in 469 - > terms... 470 - > particularly today- as the proliferation of channels 471 - > continue to explode, and also some of the issues around losing 472 - > some of the customers to channels that are not the 473 - > preferred booking, 474 - > Indy Adenaw: Yeah 475 - > Dorothy Dowling: platforms for us. 476 - > So thank you for walking us through that and how that has 477 - > really honed that really disciplined focus to 478 - > understanding how you have to be really focused on the execution.

479 - > I'm just wondering over the years that you've been in the 480 - > industry and you've grown in scope and complexity, has your 481 - > leadership style changed? 482 - > Indy Adenaw: It has, and I have become much more adaptive. 483 - > I don't know if I believe in a leadership style that is 484 - > constant. 485 - > In fact, I always get trouble when people say I lead in this 486 - > and this manner," because every situation could warrant a 487 - > different type of leadership.

488 - > I had the pleasure of working for one of my closest friends 489 - > Brian King at Marriott, and it struck me at an early point in 490 - > my career where I saw him coming in and actually cooking for his 491 - > team. 492 - > And then I actually realized that, Brian was leading with his 493 - > heart. 494 - > He was connecting with each individual that was working for 495 - > him. 496 - > I think through that experience I learned what empathy actually 497 - > really meant in a work environment.

498 - > I think it's a set of lessons. 499 - > I always think of Brian each time I deal with my own teams 500 - > because I want to reflect who he is. 501 - > And I've worked for other leaders including a gentleman 502 - > called Alex Kairukis in the Middle East and Africa, where he 503 - > was exceptional at just making sure people understood his 504 - > vision. 505 - > He was an exceptional communicator.

506 - > He was an exceptional driver. 507 - > You never really walked out of a meeting without knowing what 508 - > Alex wanted. 509 - > And so I now find myself, I think often with teams, trying 510 - > to figure out how do you get the most out of them? 511 - > How do you maximize their contributions to one another?

512 - > How do you get them to gel in a way that they haven't before? 513 - > And what one team requires could be very different than what 514 - > another team requires. 515 - > And so that flexibility, I think, is something that I've 516 - > come to embrace, at least at this point in my career. 517 - > Dorothy Dowling: I thank you for sharing that,'cause Brian is 518 - > obviously someone who's very dear to me too, but I think that 519 - > combination of people leadership and the clarity of expectations, 520 - > and also the flexibility that you're talking about in terms of 521 - > understanding the different teams have different needs, 522 - > Indy, and to actually try to shape the kind of leadership 523 - > that an individual team might need to actually drive the best 524 - > performance outcomes.

525 - > So I think those are important lessons for all of us. 526 - > I'd love to understand more about your personal discipline, 527 - > because there's a couple things for me. 528 - > One is about staying grounded as a leader. 529 - > But the other aspect for me is just when you're in a business 530 - > environment that is so intense, how do you carve out time for 531 - > strategic thinking?

532 - > 'Cause that's, in my mind, one of the things that you do so 533 - > well. 534 - > Indy Adenaw: Yeah. 535 - > A- and it's i- it's also just a question of what things can you 536 - > do and what things are better shared? 537 - > And just to give you an example, I get super motivated staring at 538 - > the problem.

539 - > I find it an absolute joy to actually look at something that 540 - > doesn't feel like it's working, and to try and understand why 541 - > it's not working There could be teams where the thought of 542 - > actually staring at a problem for a long time can become 543 - > either deflating or demotivating. 544 - > And so over time I have I've learned that, I'm perhaps more 545 - > of an introvert than an extrovert, so I have to balance 546 - > how much time you spend in meetings and then how much time 547 - > do you actually really spend on your own.

548 - > But I've also come to understand there are certain tasks that I 549 - > want to do in teams and certain things I wanna do individually. 550 - > So the joy of actually building something I think is best done 551 - > in teams. 552 - > You can pull people together, you can put sticky notes on a 553 - > wall, and you can really start really start having some pride 554 - > around how something comes together. 555 - > But when you're dealing with maybe a hotel or a brand or 556 - > something that, that is experiencing some kind of 557 - > performance challenge or performance obstacle, I found 558 - > that kind of activity is either better done in very small groups 559 - > or individually, because I think you have to just really piece 560 - > apart what's broken and then try and figure out how to to find 561 - > it.

562 - > So my example is just essentially l- learning how to 563 - > how to navigate the things you need to do, and then 564 - > understanding how you wanna tackle them, either in teams or 565 - > individually. 566 - > Dorothy Dowling: Yeah. 567 - > No, but I think that's great advice, because I do think there 568 - > is some things where you just have to invest a lot of time in 569 - > thinking, and allowing for that to happen is really important. 570 - > And then there are other things where you're right, the creative 571 - > process is really fueled by being in a group environment and 572 - > having many people contribute to that- Yeah thought leadership.

573 - > So I'd love to talk a little bit about future leaders,'cause we 574 - > have many that listen. 575 - > I would love to understand your point of view for that next 576 - > generation of hospitality leaders if they're listening. 577 - > What do you think are the most important capabilities that will 578 - > really power their careers? 579 - > Indy Adenaw: The, there are a couple of mindset ones and a 580 - > couple of ones that are a little bit more tangible.

581 - > For me, I think having some, I, I don't know if it's the right 582 - > word, but to having some level of recklessness in how you... 583 - > Y- you have to be willing to take risks. 584 - > You have to be willing to actually just push enough into 585 - > spaces until you figure out what you can't do. 586 - > I get worried sometimes when I see a high potential leader and 587 - > they start saying things like, "I'm really good at A, B, and C 588 - > and nothing more than that," because I think it limits their 589 - > ability to actually master more and more skills.

590 - > So I think that fearless nature is number one. 591 - > Number two, I just don't think leaders in the future cannot 592 - > have some sense of either technology or distribution or 593 - > more of the technical sides of the business. 594 - > And so I think making sure you have some experience on that 595 - > side of actually just learning how technology and distribution 596 - > systems are really molding and changing hospitality is really 597 - > important. 598 - > And number three, at some point, your career is either going to 599 - > get capped or accelerated by your ability to work with people 600 - > that are just true peers.

601 - > And learning how to relate and connect with other people I 602 - > think is really important. 603 - > So I always mention to people that are really high potential, 604 - > and there's a number on my team of what are your vulnerabilities 605 - > or opportunities, either from a functional area or from how you 606 - > work with other people? 607 - > Can you get the most of people that are peers? 608 - > Can you lead by influence?

609 - > Can you actually have conflict without it mushrooming into 610 - > something that's more of a strain on a relationship? 611 - > And I think these are all things that you really wanna try and 612 - > pick up in your, late 20s and early 30s because just makes you 613 - > a better leader as time goes on. 614 - > Dorothy Dowling: I think you encapsulated a lot in that 615 - > message, Andy. 616 - > I do think that aspect of not limiting yourself and being able 617 - > to take risks and push and be uncomfortable in terms of 618 - > situations that are not yet, but you're willing to embrace the 619 - > opportunity.

620 - > I think the other element in terms of really focusing on some 621 - > of the technical and distribution,'cause I do feel 622 - > that they are such a core part of this industry today, and we 623 - > have to understand that so that we can be effective in really 624 - > driving the right kind of business outcomes. 625 - > And I do think lastly about how organizations are becoming 626 - > flatter and working across peers and really honing your people 627 - > skills, I think, is an important element.

628 - > And knowing yourself as well as, the kind of triggers so that you 629 - > can work well with others is really important. 630 - > Thank you for sharing all of that in, in such a compelling 631 - > way,'cause I do think those are all really important leadership 632 - > skills. 633 - > I'm just wondering as a closing question, if you thought and 634 - > think about your own journey, if you were sitting on that 635 - > shoulder of yourself but it was someone else that you wanted to 636 - > give some meaningful career advice what would you offer to 637 - > them in terms of how they might approach their future?

638 - > Indy Adenaw: It's Interesting. 639 - > The more I've thought about my own career, I've worked on some 640 - > brands that became, pretty big deals down the line. 641 - > The work we did on Sheridan or Moxy ended up becoming, quite 642 - > instrumental to the sector. 643 - > And today, even the work we're doing in Cambria and Radisson, I 644 - > think has the potential to, to really make a mark on the 645 - > industry.

646 - > But when I look back, I realize that the individual could only 647 - > do so much. 648 - > It was never... 649 - > there was no one person that started these brands or advanced 650 - > them, but it was how a team of various people with varying 651 - > different skill sets, mindsets backgrounds came together to 652 - > create something something significant. 653 - > And so when I, think about my own career, I probably have an 654 - > appreciation of the power of the I is somewhat limited, but the 655 - > power of the team is much more significant.

656 - > And I think sometimes that rubs against the desire for people to 657 - > understand what their role was or what their achievement was. 658 - > And so I wish I actually had more of this appreciation for 659 - > what a collective group of people could accomplish earlier 660 - > in my career. 661 - > And when I think of people I've either mentored or worked with I 662 - > think that those team skills, I think are so significant. 663 - > That would be my biggest encouragement to anybody that's 664 - > listening, of embrace the power of teams and embrace your 665 - > ability to actually become part of a very meaningful team and 666 - > just see where your career will take you.

667 - > Dorothy Dowling: I think that was beautifully said and I do 668 - > think that is why that focus on culture and really understanding 669 - > your fit when you join an organization is so critically 670 - > important to powering individuals' career. 671 - > So I do appreciate you saying that, Indy,'cause I would say 672 - > the same to you about m- my career, that I don't know that I 673 - > fully understood that. 674 - > I think at this point in my career I do, but I think it, it 675 - > is for individuals earlier in their career, if they can really 676 - > think about some of those choices they're making about 677 - > what organizations to join and what that really means to them 678 - > in terms of the individuals they get to work with, not just their 679 - > boss, but their peers.

680 - > So thank you. 681 - > I just really so much appreciate your perspective and the way you 682 - > connected the human element of your journey with your business 683 - > journey, and just the breadth of your strategic lens in this 684 - > industry that we all love, Indy. 685 - > So I'm just grateful to you for taking the time to share your 686 - > story with our listeners and our viewers, and just again, convey 687 - > my appreciation to you and the deep respect that I have for you 688 - > in terms of how you bridged some of this career discussion today.

689 - > So thank you. 690 - > Thank you very much 691 - > Indy Adenaw: Oh, it's completely m- mutual, and I appreciate your 692 - > time. 693 - > Dorothy Dowling: All right. 694 - > Thank you, Indy.

695 - > Yeah. 696 - > And if I may, I also would like to thank our audience. 697 - > I'd love to thank them for joining us today, and if today's 698 - > conversation with In- Indy resonated with you, I hope you 699 - > will come and explore more interviews at 700 - > itspersonalstories.com, where we share stories from leaders 701 - > across our industry, leaders who are building meaningful careers, 702 - > shaping the future of hospitality, and reminding us 703 - > that leadership is, at its core, deeply personal.

704 - > So thank you, and we hope you'll join us again soon.