Inclusively: ETSI standards on accessibility. With Ulrike Haltrich, Sony Europe and ETSI

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: With Chris Lewis and Monica Paolini, that is me. And we um, are talking today about uh, standardization, uh, ah, and specifically standardization of Etsy. And uh, how is that uh, um, helping uh, people with uh, disabilities. Uh, and uh, Chris, why don't you tell us what we're going to be talking about today.

Speaker C: Well thank you very much Monica, Love to be back again. The challenge of standards keeps coming up because you know, the more interchangeable parts that we see in our digital lifestyles we just expect things to work. But behind thing working obviously we need Sandon. So delighted Ulrike for you to join us. Perhaps to begin with, can you perhaps just tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us um, how you got involved with accessibility and Etsy because you actually work, your job is for Sony. So can you explain that positioning for us?

Speaker A: Yes. Uh, so thank you for inviting me to this podcast, uh, Chris and Monica. Yes, uh, I'll start with uh, my short introduction. So I'm a senior manager at Sony Europe based in, in Germany and I work uh, for the European Technology Standards Office of Sony. Um, I joined Sony in, in 1996 already. So um, I have a long history actually in standardization and held multiple roles in Sony related to business development and also standardization. Ah. Um, I worked in many uh, different standardization projects across Europe and was also one of the founders of uh, the Digital Europe E Inclusion Working Group which is the European Industry association, uh, based in Brussels. And then um, more recently um, I was elected as chair of the Etsy Human Factors Technical Committee, I.e. the Etsy Group that deals with human centered design, usability, accessibility and design for all. So and there we're responsible for guiding standards and guidelines that ensure ICT products and services uh, are usable and accessible to all, including people with disabilities, seniors and children. So and beyond Etsy, actually I'm also heavily involved in international standardization bodies for audio, video and multimedia and I'm Chair of IEC Technical Committee 100 for Multimedia and audio video, uh, systems and equipment. And also in the past I chaired a group um, in IEC called the System Committee AAL Active Assisted Living which aims to make technology accessible and usable for people with special needs or age related limitations. So um, this is how I came actually or how I work in this uh, area now for many years. Um, and I'm happy to answer your questions today.

Speaker B: Yes. So uh, well this is very impressive.

Speaker A: Like I was like oh my God,

Speaker B: you just got so much uh, um, going on. Um, now let's just talk about a little bit ah, about Etsy and Oftentimes when you think about standards you think about just making uh you know a technology possible. But clearly there is also the standards are also important for society to help us uh, uh to give us better accessibility. So can you tell us a little bit about how is um uh Etsy involved in this?

Speaker A: Hm yes, certainly. So Etsy, uh this is the European Telecommunication Standards Institute based in Sofia Antipolis France and um this is one of the world's major organizations that develop technical standards for information and communication technologies. It is uh Etsy is one of the three European standards organizations in the European Union alongside the SEN and senilec. And Etsy creates standards in mobile communications. So you know the long history of GSM, M, LTE, 5G, 6G as examples they work on Internet technologies, uh cybersecurity, broadcasting standards and also accessibility and uh human factors, uh standards and um. Yeah and this is also recognized as very very important in Etsy as 15% of the population face challenges with disability or accessibility needs. And this is um also why standards are so important for society. Um in order to make devices, networks and services um of different, developed by different companies able to communicate and uh interoperate together. So without standards, very easy example a smartphone might not connect to a mobile network or TV might not decode broadcast signals correctly. And um this is why accessibility also is one of the areas where standards make the biggest a social impact because without them accessibility is often inconsistent or overlooked. And um yeah we need to make the accessibility requirements uh clear and give companies clear guidance on what to implement and provide uh benchmarks also for testing and compliance which is quite important especially in the framework of the um new uh European Accessibility Act. And uh in this area we are in the process of developing a very important uh standard EN31 549 that is a European standard for ICT accessibility. And this one tells exactly how manufacturers need to ensure that software, hardware and services uh are accessible. Yeah, so it's also important that um accessibility is built in from the start in products and services and not added at a later stage. Um this leads to products that work for more people and um also reduces cost because no need for costly uh retrofitting.

Speaker C: So Ulrike, how does Etsy ensure the accessibility and inclusion for all of its operations?

Speaker A: Um, good question. So Etsy uh actually designs internal processes but also the environment, the build environment and also um events to be uh accessible to all, to everybody. So um, for example under the accessibility strategy of Etsy, one project uh focuses on um already Etsy published documents um and has A goal really to make all deliverables um available in accessible formats suitable for people with a range of needs. Um and also Etsy has developed formal guidelines now for hosting accessible needs meetings whether at Etsy premises or at also member uh venues or public venues. And um yeah has developed so to say or included there also some baseline requirements to make um the buildings physically uh accessible to people. And also in the guidelines look at the accessibility of content and uh interaction. So examples here that captioning can be provided maybe also sign language interpretation can be provided. And also um we provide um in the registration tools actually also questions where uh people can say uh what type of accessibility needs uh they have for hybrid or and online meetings. And um this is currently um the way um Etsy tries to make also their buildings uh accessible. But not only buildings but also the remote meetings. Um we have many online meetings you can imagine. And also in terms of diversity um maybe you should know that um Etsy employs people from uh 25 different nationalities. So this is also part of um the wider um diversity initiative uh of Etsy.

Speaker B: Um so Ulrike, this is quite interesting but can you tell us a little bit more about how does Etsy promote accessibility and inclusiveness in standardization?

Speaker A: Yes. Um so um as explained Etsy is one of the three European standardization uh organizations alongside with CEN and Senilec. Um however Etsy's participation um model is a bit um different. It's a direct participation model. So that means that organizations and um companies and not national delegations um can contribute directly to the technical uh work. It um is uh a member funded organization for SMEs and also micro enterprises. It has uh a reduced cost to access and um become member also for public research bodies, universities, associations and national bodies and governmental bodies. Um so it's a good um entry Point for SMEs also for consumers and regional actors um and uh it's as I said a direct participation model. Currently it has over 900 members and more than 60 country members uh from more than 60 countries um including also public authorities, private companies, academia, research bodies, public bodies and open source communities. So um the focus is of the work is on telecommunications broadcasting and uh electronic communication services and ICT in general. Um what is also um very uh unique to Etsy that access to the developed uh standards is uh free. So there's no financial uh barrier. So everybody can download uh the final um standard and this obviously also uh enables widespread use of them. Um the EN301549 um this is the so to Say flagship uh standard for ICT accessibility and it defines really um detailed uh accessibility requirements and here I can give you a couple of examples. So the requirements include requirements uh for software and websites, mobile apps, um ICT hardware, um telecommunications equipment and video or TV user interfaces and also self service, um terminals. Um so also uh, they're having a dedicated human factors committee uh which I share. They produce accessibility focused standards and um, the idea is really to embed accessibility into mainstream ICT products and uh, services. And then uh, obviously one of the biggest uh or bigger targets of uh Etsy is also to educate uh the standardization uh communic community. And um, this is, this is uh, uh particularly re. Relevant also because it's um. Yeah the work, the standards work is closely uh aligned with the EU legislation so uh, the Web Accessibility Directive, the European Accessibility act and um, therefore the, yeah let's say the, the work or the free access to those standards. Also uh, ensuring companies can in their Declaration of Conformity reference those standards um, is the way basically Etsy works and promotes their standards.

Speaker C: So thank you for covering that because obviously the immediate question is uh, how the standard you're defining and then the accessibility which obviously only came into light properly middle of this year. But can you also perhaps given the many chairmanship hats that you wear, can you put it in context as to how the 30159 standard actually relates outside of Europe?

Speaker A: Yes, um, outside of Europe um, we have uh now several countries actually um looking into the adoption of 301, 549 and um, countries already which have adopted or a version uh actually of EN 301549 are Canada and um also in some Australian states. Um the standard is used for ICT procurement, uh so particularly by public sector buyers. And then um also we have a reference or benchmark globally. Uh so um, there is a uh link which I'd like to share maybe after, after the interview where you can also um see which uh organizations have adopted EN301. And these are all global layers and I um think um this is also helpful to see how uh the EN is, is globally adopted and, and uh implemented.

Speaker B: So let's, let's go back to, to Europe. I mean there is uh, uh, you know, 24 different countries. Is that right? How do you balance them all? And for everybody has his own opinion. What are the challenges in uh, getting everybody kind of on the same track?

Speaker A: Mhm. Um, so um, the accessibility uh needs of people do not vary across countries. Yeah. So they are, they're the same all over the World. So um, obviously we have a regulation in Europe, the European Accessibility act and we have um 24 countries which have national uh transpositions and sometimes um the transpositions um are a little bit um divergent from the European Accessibility act but within the framework um we have basically one uh regulation which covers all European countries and um, all countries have also transposed into their national laws the European Accessibility Act. Um so for example uh Germany they have transposed the EAA in two different laws. So this is quite complicated. And also other countries have transposed sometimes uh in two or three laws. So they have split. But overall um overall we see uh that the transpositions uh took place and um now currently um we also ah see that the interpretations are uh uh consistent across uh the countries and we work on the finalization of the EN301,549. Also in um, also with the national committees, European national committees um organized under SEN and uh sanelec. So this uh is currently work ongoing but we also have to see um other challenges. Uh these are two more standards basically um, which are relevant for industry and uh the one is one is on non digital information related to products and services and this area um as I said is very relevant for companies and we see that the standards are currently only at uh yeah working draft stage. So still we need time to finalize and make them uh available. Um and as you know the European Accessibility act was already enforced in June this year. But still we don't have um all the standards in place uh to show uh conformance and then.

Speaker C: Oh go please carry on.

Speaker A: Yeah and then we have another standard which is related to support services. Also this standard is um only available as a working draft and still um yeah we require much more time in SANELEC to finalize the standard. So yeah, sorry.

Speaker C: It's very interesting. I do some work with an application called Be My Eyes. And my assumption being a technology telecom guy was that we would do everything digitally. We'll be all through one interface, through one website. But in fact we're beginning to find that we perhaps need in the case of vision impaired in particular that we actually need to have slightly different views. And this is where a specific application actually routes people through to support to a telco or to a retail outlet or to someone else rather than going through the standard approach which is sort of a bad thing against the way the existing websites and structures are designed. But actually we have to be practical as well. So I'm very very curious to see how that develops over the uh over the. Over the coming months. So perhaps one other question around the European Accessibility Act. You know, what advice would you give to companies preparing to conform to the act? Any practical advice you can give to them?

Speaker A: Yes. So um, it's advice or recommendations um I would give is um. Try to go beyond the minimum requirements set out in the standard. So um, as you know uh. Standard is always a balance between different interest groups and we need to define some common uh understanding. But obviously a uh company which wants to differentiate can go beyond those uh requirements and add um new accessibility features to their products and services. What I also find very important that um internally in the organization we need to secure the leadership and support and resources over time. Also that uh we not only implement now but we improve over time and also have control mechanisms uh over time. So that um we so to say um organize internally also uh the processes to ensure compliance. And also um. We do a lot of internal work um because the EN also gives room to interpretations and um that internally we need to align uh the interpretations across uh the teams which is also um sometimes uh we have diverging um opinions etc. Interpretations etc. So this is sometimes also um a challenge. I have to say how to interpret the standards in a correct way and then keep. Keep documents and decisions uh or keep documents of decisions and processes. Also that the know how also uh and the history is uh somehow documented in your organization. Obviously there will be maintenance work, updates uh needed etc. So the work will continue. And uh, it would be good for companies to stay involved um in this. And also what we did um for uh the TV maker site is we developed also a technical report um 104060 which uh is a guidance document uh to explain to UH TV makers or CE manufacturers how to apply the EN301 549. So if UH various sectors are unsure of the interpretations, um we in um Etsy, uh they have a subgroup or task group looking uh only into the TV related UM TV related application of the EN&UH& wrote so to say a guideline for industry. Um and this is how I think companies or also academia can get involved and should be involved um in the standardization uh process and can also positively influence features and also uh the compliance side.

Speaker B: We are getting close to the end of it. So as often we want to know what, what's next. So how do you see how is this, you know this is obviously work in progress. Um, how do you see the next challenges and the next step steps you see uh ahead for Ah accessibility.

Speaker A: So in Etsy um actually um the next uh development steps for accessibility um would be to look into new ict uh domains such as. So let me give you a couple of examples. Artificial intelligence is uh one of the areas. So uh, the accessibility of uh AI powered services also a topic uh for future maybe bias mitigation. And also um we need to ensure explainability and control for people with cognitive uh disabilities. Another area where we would like uh to focus is virtual and augmented real reality. So uh, accessible immersive environments we will look into also the UIs, so haptics uh and captioning spatial audio would be areas where we need to uh look into more detail in. And then also um the accessibility of smart home devices um voice interfaces is something uh where we can also look at. So we have really um a lot of areas where we in in future also need uh standards for. And um. Yeah we very um so we will not stop after EN301 549 is published. So we will then also um put our resources on, on those uh new areas especially in the field of AI and uh virtual and augmented reality and uh, IoT and smart M environments.

Speaker C: Ulrike, you've taken us through an awful lot of content and the activities that Etsy and your human factors area are looking at. I think what it emphasizes to the, to the world of accessibility and inclusion is that many formally separate areas. You mentioned television for example. You know the standards for accessibility on TVs have come on leaps and bounds. It's great to see but it's still not consistent. You know the accessibility and collaboration tools like the one we're using today is not consistent but uh, it. So we've been developing many of these things in isolation. So it's great to hear that you know you're looking to broaden the reach of what you're looking at to make sure that we get uh, hopefully a little bit more consistency in the way these things get delivered. And I completely endorse your comments about the cognitive questions about how do we design things to make sure cognitively things are accessible. But you also even touched upon the physical accessibility before about designing buildings. So when we talk about inclusive design there are so many elements to this that actually getting people to even understand how all the things relate to each other is a massive challenge. But I think it sounds like with all the work you're doing you're gradually building momentum, which is great to hear. And uh, then with your own standards and with the European Accessibility act, these things are starting to come together we are getting consensus we're getting more buy in from countries around the world. I think you're right that there is this. That there is a general acceptance around the world that we need to build more accessibility into everything that we do and especially as we move into this AI era or this AI fueled era and the fact that we need to make every possible interaction touch point for people because at the end of the day we need to think about the people and I think that's something which is really important to keep that human factor in there. So thank you very much for taking the time to, to look at those questions that we threw out to you there and thank you for joining us today. Monica, do you want to close us off?

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So Ulrike, thanks a lot and uh, uh thank you all in the audience for uh listening to us and uh supporting us uh uh through this and spread uh the word about inclusively. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Sam.