Lavanya's Take on AI, Cyber Jobs, Social Media, and the Future of Tech

Foreign. Lavanya. Welcome to Inclusive Cyber. How's it going today? Going good, thanks for having me. How are you? I'm doing well. Just busy with work and super excited to have this conversation. Lavanya, can we just start with a quick kind of overview of who you are for the audience? Yeah. My name is Lavanya Joshi. I am a first year at the University of Virginia. I plan to pursue a BA in computer science. I kind of picked this degree because I feel like computer science can be very versatile for like students like interested in tech. Like, I feel like there's many niches you can focus on such as cybersecurity, data science, software engineering. So with like more years I'll probably see like what exactly I'm interested in. But so far it's been cybersecurity and I love it. Let's kind of start at the beginning. Why computer science? Are you naturally inclined to ask a lot of questions? Do you have a curious personality? Originally in high school, I started off with like, I dreams of becoming like a doctor. I wanted to do like dentistry and all that, but I took this introduction course in cyber security and that kind of like what got me peaked into like technology and basically like how advanced it's becoming. So in this class, like we kind of like learned about like very surface level cybersecurity topics. Like, like what a digital footprint is, how hackers use your digital footprint to like get into like your accounts and everything. And just like seeing like this like work as like a puzzle piece, I feel like even programming can be like similar. Like you're putting a bunch of pieces together to create like a product or something that's like useful. So, and like our, like today in this day and age, I feel like technology is just like all around us. Like it's a very big part of our lives. And someday I want to make some sort of like, contribution to the technology like around us and be able to help in some sort of way. So that's like, kind of like why I want to do something in like computer science or technology because it's just, it's something that's always changing. I feel like I'm never going to get bored of it. Yeah, that's, that's a good way of framing. It's always a new day, brings new challenges. It's never the same thing over and over. So just to get clarification, you said you took a class that was in high school, I'm assuming? Yeah, we took. It was actually kind of cool. Like, I was kind of surprised. This class was even offered in high school. I feel like when my parents, when they talk about, like, what they did in high school, they're like, yeah, we have these core subjects, science, math, history. But then now we have such, like, diverse topics and they're being taught in high school and even elementary school. So I'm like, really glad that I have that opportunity to, like, learn about such things. Our computer class when I started was typing, so. And it was one of the old school Mac computers, I think Apple ii. And yeah, I didn't. I didn't really care about computers back then, which is kind of ironic that I deal with computers, computers nowadays. So that class introduced you to the various aspects of cybersecurity. So from there, did you reach out to the teacher? Did you develop kind of a relationship and just asking them questions? Who else did you kind of lean on to learn more about this particular profession? I had a really close connection with my teacher. Actually our, like, whole class. She was a female teacher, which is like, something I admire. It was a class full of guys and, like, seeing like, me in the front, like, taking notes and stuff. She, like, she kind of, like, noticed me and I would, like, ask questions there. Like, we kind of, like, made a connection and she kind of got me more into, like, different things, like, outside of class, like, to me, like, I was just like, what is cybersecurity? I don't know anything about it. All I know right now is like, cryptography and what a digital publisher it is. So she like, kind of got me introduced into, like, more what cybersecurity is. And I was introduced to this club later called Cyberpatriot. And this club was actually super useful, especially for students who don't know anything about cybersecurity. Because we have. There's like, basically different roles such as like, packet tracer, Windows server, Windows security, and Linux. And it kind of like simulates like, a real environment where you have like, these different cybersecurity professionals. You know, kind of creating like a. Like a network network and a system and trying to secure that system for a company. And having high school students do such simulations and kind of putting them in the deep end and relying on Google search and how to secure a Windows computer, that kind of got me interested. I'm like, wait, this is really cool. I see the points. Rack up. This team's winning and that team's winning. So it becomes kind of a fun competition to do with your peers. So that kind of like, got me more into cybersecurity after that introductory level class. And it's honestly all thanks to my teacher. Like, she kind of like, pushed these opportunities to me and that kind of got me going. I love that story, Lavanya, because one, as you mentioned already, it was a class full of guys, right? Typically, it and cybersecurity roles are primarily men and very few women, which is something that, at least in my career, I'm trying to. To elevate in trying to assist and help more diverse voices, especially women in cybersecurity, because I think it's sorely needed. The other thing about kind of capture the flag is what you're describing in different teams and scoring. If it wasn't for that, I guess for the lack of a better term, gamification, would this profession still be appealing for you? The way you described it, you know, you're getting excited, it was fun, it was challenging, and it's kind of. It's almost like a team sport, right? You're facing other classmates to see who is the better one and kind of claim bragging rights there. How much of that made an impression on you? I feel like this was a very big part of, like, why I wanted to do cybersecurity because, like, there's probably. There's like cyber introductory to cyber, which is the class I was in in cyber operations. Like, I feel like I still would have been interested in it, but, like, I wouldn't have been like, as interested unless, like, if I did that. Because I feel like you can't really know what cybersecurity is until you, like, do something that is like cybersecurity. Like, for example, the certification exams. Like, actually studying for the certification exam is so different than like, actually going and configuring like a router for yourself. And I think, like, actually doing things is very important. So I think it definitely, like, had some sort of contribution, like, on my, like, pathway and growth. Now you have kind of the cyber bug in you, and then you graduate high school and then you're looking to get into college. Was cyber it your main or computer science, rather? Was that your main degree that you're looking for, or were you kind of going back and forth with maybe some. Some other profession? I think I was mostly interested in computer science because it's like that was like my main. That's probably like, what I was doing so far. And I'm like, interested in business as well, but I think I believe in like a. Like an intersection with like, business and technology. So that's kind of like where I want to like, go into. So I picked. I picked The University of Virginia, because, like, it's like a good school in Virginia and I'm in state and I feel like I could go into like, very like, different like, areas if I wanted to. Like, if I was interested in data science after taking a few courses there, I could minor in data science or maybe get a master's in data science there. Or if I wanted to do cybersecurity, I could do a focal path and then do some extracurriculars and get like a few certifications and get me started with some internships. Or I could go into software engineering, which is like essentially the same thing but like with more programming. So I just picked computer science right now because it's like a versatile degree and I do enjoy programming, but I think exploring like exactly what niche in computer science I'm interested in the most is like what I'm focused on right now. And I don't know if you mentioned this before, I might have missed it. What year are you in? In college? Right now I'm a first year, so I just finished my first semester. First semester. So brand new to, to the university life. So then just last year you were in high school then. I just wanted to get a frame of reference. Now you're, you're going into your first, you know, semester. Wrapping that up. How has it been so far? I didn't really go into much expectation into like university because I've always been like, you know, the studying person, like always just in the books. But I feel like college is so different. Like you have different things that you're focused on, like lifestyle and everything. So I think essentially first semester was just like getting used to that lifestyle and creating like a new routine and how to go about things. But I think like, in terms of classes, it wasn't that. It wasn't too bad. They were very like, introductory classes. I took like Foundations of Data Science and like Python for scientists and Introduction to Programming, which just taught me Python. So I think like, for now, like, it'll be okay. But as like the semesters go on, I know like, the classes are going to start to like toughen up. So I'm just like right now trying to mentally prepare for that amount of studying. So we'll see. Yeah, I'm sure it's going to definitely get harder as, as you progress in your, in your college career. One thing that I always ask my guests, Lavanya, is mentors. And I know you're barely starting off, but do you have any mentors right now? Whether it's profess professors, or even fellow, you know, classmates from, from high school or even parents. Right. I think of everyone as like, my mentor. I don't like to follow in like, one person's specific, like, footsteps because, like, I'm trying to create like, my own journey, my own path. So instead I like to like, gather opinions from like, everyone and ask them questions about like, like, what led them to like, this position and their journey. And basically when I collect all these opinions, I'm like, wait, maybe I might be interested in this. Maybe I can try this thing. It'll be like, small things like, oh, this person they did a minor or this person, they tried out, like a specific program. So, like, I'll just like, try these new experiences that other people did and see if, like, if it's for me or if it's not, and then I'll like, kind of move on with that. So I think my most of my mentors, I think the most influential ones have been that one high school teacher I had and then I had some, like, I kind of like, look up to people who are making like, a lot of innovations today. I feel like a lot of graduates from like, college, they've been working on these really cool startups and, you know, kind of like integrating like machine learning into like, different fields such as, like, healthcare and like, just like, other cool things. I think in one of my internships we like, talked to a lot of individuals who did things like that. So just seeing like their starting point and then seeing them, like where they end up with all this hard work and determination, that kind of like inspires me. So I just, I like hearing their stories and like, getting inspired by them. So not to go off topic, but just based on what you said, there is that something that you would be looking into it kind of the startup world, you know, going through college, getting your, your education. Can you and then kind of pivot to startup culture or startup company? It kind of does pique my interest because I feel like everyone, like, with AI coming in, like, everyone's kind of like in this buzz, like, oh, how can we use AI to like, optimize like, daily tasks and everything? I think it's definitely like, in my interest. I love the fact that, like, people are creating like something brand new. This wasn't as normal back then, so I, I think I might like, look into it in the future, but I think it was, but not as prevalent. There were just prevalent here. I think just technology as we, you know, before we hit the record button, just technology is advancing so fast and you Know, could be good, it could be bad. I appreciate your, your insight and kind of your eagerness to learn. So you mentioned the of the millennia. Right. Seems like a generative artificial intelligence. So as you're saying that you want to get into computer science and I'm sure you've read this vibe coding, which, it's a marketing term that essentially makes you create apps without knowing any programming language. So essentially it was made for me. I'm an idiot when it comes to coding. When I went to school back several decades ago, I couldn't understand programming what you think AI is going to be and how can that potentially impact you both on the negative side and you know, on the positive side, I believe AI is like a tool. It depends on like the user itself and like how they like go about using this tool. Because AI, it can do both. I've seen that do both bad things and good things. So I feel like if people like continuously like keep using AI for like everything, like it kind of takes away from them and like what they're able to do and you know, it kind of takes away from that like critical thinking. But at the same time, if you use AI in the correct ways, like it can, you're only gonna gain from it. Because I use AI like as a student, if, like, for example, like, if I, if I have to like go all the way to like a TA's office hours and you know, like, have them explain like a concept to me because I just can't understand it. And then I'm spending like so much time like walking to like their office or like Google searching stuff and just getting frustrated by the results. I could just have AI be like, explain to me like I'm in middle school. Explain to me like how to do subnetting or something because, like, I feel like that can be a very hard concept at first to learn, like through a YouTube video or something. So having like AI actually like explained to me like first like in baby terms and then actually like building up to like learn like the most more advanced ways that that can be like, super useful. And that kind of gets what like students going and you know, creating like optimized results while like also achieving those same results if you did like the other things, you know. Yeah, so sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, I, I, I love that use case because I'm actually doing that myself. So I'm reading a book on systems theory and concept that I don't know, I'm like, okay, I get my phone and start asking AI, hey, I'm reading this book, I don't understand what the hell they're saying here. And how does this relate? I guess I'm trying to incorporate systems theory into cybersecurity programs. And I'm trying to, just like you said, I don't have, I don't want to pay anybody. I don't know anybody that knows systems theory. Well, let's just use the tools that are available to us that can make life a lot easier. So then I'm going to kind of put you on the spot a little bit. So if we're using AI as a whole, and in your particular case as a student, why go through college if you can just, if you're passionate about cyber or any profession, medical field or legal, why can't we use that tool to explain all these kind of concepts for us? What are your thoughts on that? I feel like AI, it can be very biased. It's not very reliable. Like, if you give it like information to kind of like summarize, like if you give it like a bunch of PDF documents and be like, give me like the key takeaways from these documents, like, it becomes useful in like optimizing like your learning. But like, if you kind of like asked AI to like generate like a learning plan for you with like information, it's going to take like content from like all across the web. And that also includes like bad sources and unreliable websites. And you don't want to be like learning like information that you know you can't trust. But with like an instructor at like a university that gives you like these concepts that they explain first. Like, you, you're still learning from your professor, but like those small nitpicky things that you just can't understand yourself. Like AI becomes valuable when it actually like explains like exactly what that means and what that is. But I feel like AI is just, it can't really, it can't give you like a crash course on like Network plus or like Security Plus. I don't think it's gotten that advanced yet. But like, it can definitely like tackle in on the smaller things and be like, okay, exactly. As a whole, what this is to your point is if we are ignorant on a topic we don't know, whatever it's telling us whether that's true or not. Right? It's the hallucinations. And I think you make a valid point, point that your instructor, your professor is kind of guiding you, providing those guide rails as you're learning, you know, computer science in your particular case there. So yeah, no, I appreciate Your insight in that, because, you know, you're, you're coming into a whole new world where everything is just AI, right? And you're seeing a lot of people pontificating with the job markets and how people are being laid off and them attributing it to AI. With that being said, what do you think it's going to look like when you graduate in four years? I feel like for cybersecurity specifically, there's going to be more like in demand for cybersecurity professionals. Because AI, it kind of like it's like trained on large data sets and you need of course, data and that data is being sold and you don't know if it's in an ethical way or an unethical way. So I feel like we need cybersecurity professionals to actually protect that data because if it's being fed into a machine or some sort of algorithm and if some sort of like thread actor try to like, you know, kind of do like prompts to like get information out and like the certain data. This was like, I actually learned this through like a ctf. I did like, I had to get like a passcode from like this like AI, like bot, and I actually ended up getting the password from it. I'm like this password just stored in the database and all it took me was just like a prompt to like get that. So I think, I don't think the cybersecurity field is going to go down. I feel like more it can be used as a tool because of course hackers, they're going to use AI to kind of make their lives easier and automate attacks or whatever. But we can also use that to our advantage because at the end of the day, AI is a tool. Yeah, no, I love that perspective. And yeah, the adversaries are already using AI. I don't know if you had the opportunity to read Anthropic's intel report. I think that came out last, last month. If not, I'll make sure to share it with you and then put in the, in the show notes. Super fascinating. So can you. I know it might have been between high school and college, but you started an internship. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got that internship and what are, what were the different things that you learned from it? The internship that I did that was most significant was CCI for full. It stands for Commonwealth Cyber Initiative. They like share more about what cybersecurity is to other individuals, no matter what age they're in. And for me, I did specifically the program where it was aimed towards high school students because I feel like kids, they need that exposure going to actual businesses and seeing what those professionals are doing in that business to get students interested. Because right now like when I, even when I talk to like my friends who are not like interested in tech and they've never gotten that tech exposure, they kind of just see like any tech related job is like sitting in front of a computer and just you know, typing away. It really isn't that there's like a lot more to it. That internship, like it showed me like a lot and gave me a lot of exposure into like what cybersecurity is. And it's actually, it's very cool to see like how it can be applied in so many different fields. I've seen it been applied to like satellite communications and like businesses such as Leidos and healthcare. And just seeing like it apply to like so many different fields just I feel like that's something like students should see. And we basically got to like ask these professionals about like what their day to day life is like. And they tell us about like the cool. Well they tell us to a certain extent they can't share like the full, full details but like whatever they're doing seems pretty interesting. And I remember I forgot what company it was, but we went to like one of these like satellite communication companies and we saw like these professionals like they had like some sort of like box and like with a bunch of like maps and it was like a very secure environment and they're like seeing like, I don't know exactly what they were doing, but whatever they were doing seemed pretty cool. So I, I like loved seeing those like everyone just doing something different. And it's, I feel like cyber security, it isn't just like one thing you're doing. Like it honestly depends on like the job and like what the job wants and what they want to secure. So that was a very like cool internship that I did. And in the summer we got like paired up with like a bunch of companies and two or three students from the program would be sent to that company to work for like a month. And basically these companies just like taught us of like what they do in their company and they gave us like projects to focus on. So I got like exposure by doing a internship at Solviteer Systems, which is another cybersecurity company. He gave us a bunch of tasks of like what to research and like what to look into the company. And he even like let us join some like company meetings to see like how, how like they sell their products and services. So that was, I feel like this is not something you can learn in school. So it was a very nice experience. Well, what do you think of those meetings? Obviously you're not liberty to say what was discussed during those meetings, but what was your initial reaction to that? I guess how people communicate with one another, your overall thoughts? It was just very structured and professional. So like it kind of gave me an idea of like what professionalism is if like a customer and a seller are like interacting with one another. The customer is asking like these questions like what do you have to offer? And then the seller is like, oh, like we have this, this and that. So like when I say like I'm also interested in like maybe going to the startup route, like this kind of gives me more like exposure into like what exactly that's going to look like, like what kind of interactions that I would have to do in the future if I wanted to go into that side. I think you mentioned a lot of great things there, Lavanya, especially that this stuff you can learn, you know, in a textbook maybe, maybe professors, depending on their experience there. But just having that unique hands on being in those meetings, asking those leaders on how they navigate their, their particular part of cybersecurity, that's something that's extremely valuable. Right? What would be some advice that you would tell your, your younger generation there about getting into kind of the tech IT or cybersecurity? I feel like a lot of students these days, they're very scared of like what, like what things have to offer. A lot of people are like listening to like what they hear on social media, being like, oh like computer science degrees are not going to help you. Like you're not going to get a job if you do computer science. But I think this is all just false information that people are spreading because honestly you can get a job, you just have to like find something that you're genuinely interested in and you need to like work towards like that like it's not, it's not just studying because again this field is so like advanced, like you're not going to get all the information you need to like do a job if you're just going to like study the textbook. Like you have to like go out and experience things for yourself to kind of get a feel of like what business is like and what you would have to do like in that environment. So I just tell my friends and like my younger underclassmen friends just if you have an opportunity, just go for it because like I feel like whatever you do from an experience, like, you can only gain from that. If you like that, then you know, like, okay, that's something I like. And I would like to maybe find something else that's like similar and maybe like work towards a point and if you don't like, whatever you did, you know, it's not for you, so you won't be at that point where it's like, do I regret never going for this opportunity? So I just say like, overall, just don't be scared and just go for it. I love that advice. So I want to ask you about kind of the social media that you mentioned. Maybe myths and disinformation that is floating out there, at least with, you know, how you framed it, that with AI, you know, computer science is going to be a dead or pointless degree. How do you combat that though? Right? Because I think you also mentioned the lack of critical thinking. AI gives us everything that we need about topics X, Y and Z. But then how do we look beyond that and do our own research and just ask, I guess, being curious, how do we combat the noise? And that's the nicest way I could put it. The. I feel like social media can. There's just so many opinions on there and you're just gonna see like everything. Like you're gonna see people who are like working towards startups and then you're gonna see people who are also like, computer science is not the job market you wanna be in. At the end of the day, it's just noise and you should do whatever really piques your interest because there's no such thing as like, like a bad degree. Like every degree is important. Ounce of knowledge is very important and it just depends on like how someone chooses to apply it. Love that perspect for, for sharing that. So Lavanya, how I close with all my guests is books. And if you can see over here that I have a bookshelf and that's only a fraction of books that I have. But what book have you recently read or currently reading that you'd like to share with the audience? And it doesn't have to be it or cyber. If it is, you know, that's fine, but just anything that has resonated with you. I, I read this book over the summer called Atomic Habits and at first I was like trying to like, you know, get into like that self development phase where it's like, okay, let me, let me find some things to like kind of work on myself. That book, it, honestly, it, it was very like useful and Like, I thought I would enjoy it at first, but, like, the way it talked about concepts, like, I felt like someone was talking to me and it was basically talking about, like, how small things can, like, affect, like, your end goal. So, like, if you work on making, like, small things, like habits, like making like, your bed every day or like, you know, brushing your teeth before, like, you go to bed, like, and you, if you like, make a new skill set or like a new thing that you do every single day and make that into a habit, like, at the end of the day, you're going to become like a better person. That will help you, like, kind of like rebrand your image. It was a book that had me hooked. I do recommend it to others. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that book. We'll make sure to put that in the show notes. But Lamania, thank you for your time. This has been super informative and I know you're barely getting starting with your educational career and I know a lot of good things are going to be in your future in IT in cyber computer science there. So, yeah, love to continue this conversation. The other thing that I'm trying to do is kind of fireside chat, so going in depth about a topic, you know, your perspective. My perspective, yeah. Feel free to reach out and we can definitely schedule something. The next big topic that I'm looking at is quantum computing. I actually want quantum computing to start now and so we can stop talking about this stuff. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. But no, again, thank you for, for your time and I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. It's lovely chatting with.