Episode 225: Understanding Systems with Michaell Magrutsche

Hi, I'm Deb Crow, and I want to welcome you to Season 3 of Imperfect, the Heart-Centered Leadership Podcast. This is a podcast where we connect, learn, and laugh together with authentic and courageous leaders from all over the globe. You will learn from leaders you haven't even met yet. You will gain new tools to add to your leadership toolkit.

Leadership belongs to all of us. It's not measured by stature or title. So please pull up a chair and listen in. This is the Heart Centered Leadership Podcast.

Welcome back to Imperfect, the Heart Centered Leadership Podcast. And I think today's show is going to give you a little bit more education, especially around the word ability and tenacity. And my guest today is Michael Magrush. And as always, we've changed things up for season three.

And I can read my guest's bio, but I'm not going to do the justice and really declare the passion. So I've asked my guest to give us a quick overview bio of who they are. So Michael, welcome to the show. And please share with our listeners a little bit about you.

Hi, Deb. Yeah, my name is Michael Magruch. I was born in Vienna, Austria. I was a chick child.

I went to school, didn't fit in, was always good with humans. And then I found out in school I was neurodiverse. I had dyslexia and dysgraphia. I didn't know dysgraphia then.

and what that did is I'm an A personality. I wanted to fit in and I couldn't fit in. I had to repeat three classes and I wasn't a rebel. I just really wanted to be part of the group.

You know, like our DNA drives us to be inclusive, especially in adolescence. You want to belong. And I couldn't. For a long time, I couldn't fit in.

And then when I was 30, I realized, oh my God, I did a resume. And I found out, oh my God, art was my life savior. I mean, the fact that I'm still alive is art, art creation, especially art creation. And because all my jobs were art related.

So from selling tapes out of my trunk to a DJ, to fashion show producer, to advertiser, marketing. And so I was always a creative. and yeah and then once I deemed myself an artist myself not waiting that the system deems me as an artist and I mean there was no I couldn't think any other way that I'm not an artist because everything was right in front of me and I got aware that this is who I am and what that's a part of me a big part of me in the system as if you want to define me what are you doing I'm an artist.

And once I was aware of that, things changed. So then I said, okay, I'm an artist. Now I have to get the system all read. I have to be system adapt.

I have to get my exhibition. And I got the exhibition. I got the International Airport Show. I got this, this, this, this, this.

I got front cover of a magazine. And it always, and I've realized that it's all gossip. You know, because a lot of people say, once you get the cover of a magazine, you should be thinking, oh, this exhibition, this exhibition, it should be, you are in a museum. Oh, wow.

And it's all false hope. It's all false hope that creatives, especially in the creative community, because, I mean, I sold paintings for $11,000, but when? And also, how long can you live with that? If you sell that through a gallery, half of that is yours.

so you know five thousand uh what is what is that five thousand five hundred dollars and then you have to pay taxes there's nothing left i mean it sounds good even forty thousand dollars sounds good but you have to look how often do you sell that so i found a lot of things that systems told me or that people in society which is a system too believe uh we're wrong we're wrong for me and then once I've realized that me and I shared it with, let's say you said, yeah, I feel the same way.

It's like, wow. And so I came to, you know, in recently to awareness and awareness when I was 50, because I hit the wall, literally I had success. I was city arts commission of Newport Beach. I worked with Robert Evans with the Godfather, all without education.

Everything is self-taught. So the strength of me is not that I got these system accolades that I can say. The thing is to show that my power is to see everything outside the system. So not just out of the box, creative thinking, oh, I think different than you there.

I'm thinking really, because I couldn't in another way, I didn't have a choice. It wasn't a choice to think outside of And dyslexia and dyslexia and dyslexia where I can't read my handwriting and stuff was actually not endurance and adversity. It was a superpower, you know, and it is a superpower. And I see context that nobody can see.

I mean, very, very few people see the context, especially in creativity, that see the context that I see. I love what you're bringing to neurodiversity as a whole. So let me jump into my leadership questions. You have said to me that you feel 90 of human beings being misunderstood come from an unawareness that we mix our conversations our human conversations with system issues What do you mean by that?

Okay. So everybody knows Simon Sinek. He is very humane. He uses leadership on the humane side.

But still, even with him, and I think he's very aware of it, But even with him, I think he doesn't, at least he doesn't say that. I separate human relevance and I think the compartmentalizing of separating human relevance versus system relevance. Let me give you an example. You might lose your job.

That's system relevant. That's generating stress in you. You might don't get the raise. Somebody else get the raise.

or you get the race. It's all system really. But if you cut, let's say you cut yourself or your daughter is sick. Let's say your daughter is sick.

Even though in Europe, for example, they're very much about, you know, it's okay for the system that you stay home. But even in Europe, people, it's not as extreme as here, but in Europe, even people feel uncomfortable not going to work. There is no such thing as lazy because in nature it doesn't exist lazy. That is human.

And this is like lazy. It's like human adapt, guilt, future fear, you know, fear of the future. So we are not separating and saying, okay, let's think about this in a big thing. There's nature and we are still part of nature.

We are species of nature. And we don't see it so. Whenever you heard the last time somebody says we are a nature species, We are like an elephant or whatever. Nobody says it, but we are.

We have lost over a generation the separation where we get born in a hospital, a system. We get baptized, a system. We get raised in school, system. We go to university, a system.

We get a job, it's a system. We marry, it's a system. Okay? So we have lost touch of where we belong.

Like we play a monopoly game in systems. That's a game. But we are still, and we make money in that. And I'm not saying anything against systems.

I'm just saying it's the awareness there's a monopoly game. You know there's rich people or poor people, whatever. And it has nothing to do how good they are as humans or how relevant they are as humans. So now the separation that you actually feel that teeter-totter, shall I stay with my daughter, but I need to make money to survive.

You know, there should be in natural, if we look at it from a humanist perspective, there should be no bad feeling. Your focus is on your daughter or on you if you injured yourself. To get into balance, to get the maximum human potential out, to contribute to your employee game. And we have lost that.

We have lost that because if you're not a good employer, we've got to get exchanged. But the fact that you are not a good employee is often because you try to adapt to the system versus stand in your humanity and say, I'm a human first because which system can work without humans? Even if you have AI, without humans, systems are completely irrelevant. Even if you have no workers in the system, AI has to be in a way that it can tend to humans.

Otherwise, why would you use AI? So the compartmentalizing of this, and here comes the kicker. In nature, you are worthy because you exist. So the ant, I always say the same example because it's such a good visualization.

The ant and the elephant are the same. They have different function in the, and what systems tells you, if I can do it, you can do it. And that's the biggest lie. And it's a shaming lie.

And leaders must know that because they must know how to keep the team. I think that the number one leadership trait that every leader should have, he needs to be the most self-aware person in the whole company. If he's not the most self-aware, then he's the wrong leader. He should be the most self-aware because his job is not to lead and say, you do this and you make this, or we should do this and that.

But he should allow the team to be in balance at hand, like in nature. then you get the maximum out of a team. When you don't need to micromanage, when you don't need to do things you allow, you're just basically not putting out fires. That's already too far.

You're just balancing the whole thing. You look at the people, you talk to them, you connect to the people, and you, it doesn't matter how many people, you just make sure everything is balanced. I love that. And I loved the analogy of the follower versus the leader.

Very impactful. Second question, what imperfections do you bring to your heart-centered leadership? What imperfections? That I'm neurodiverse.

I mean, that's an imperfection because if you give me a leadership job, I can do computer, you know, how hard time could doing computer work because it takes me four times as long. I have to, you know, everything that's logistically, you know. So I working the best with somebody that is a real system navigator I can really shine when I just look at the human capital and work with the human capital and strategically with the team. So actually, I empower the team and the logistics somebody else needs to do.

I love that. That's huge awareness right there. Okay, my third leadership question is, tell us what being creative is in terms of awareness and education within leadership and a culture as a whole. Okay, creativity is number one.

Dispel the myth that creativity is something you can learn. Creativity is something you have. Everybody has it. When I have business, you know, when I was still in galleries and painting, so these business people come to me and they say, you know, I'm a business person, but I'm not really an artist.

And this is, again, here, it is system defined. And what it is, this is in my last book, The Smart of Art, and in my podcast, what I explain is the difference between art creation and art product. and a company is the product, but it brings out products or services, but a company's core is the expansion of a person or a group of people. It's the expansion and it's not about the money.

The money is a symptom of that expansion. The clearer you are about this expansion of what you express of you and you need to have creativity how you would communicate that. So you can, you know, that's like, and I think art always gives you these beautiful metaphors. So I was like, I played guitar.

I learned guitar for two years, you know, classical, and I couldn't do five chords. And then a friend of mine grabbed me and said, hey, you know, the percussionist got sick. Can you play the bongas and the congas? And I was a viajo.

So, you know, all the people came to me. I came, you know. So we use the wrong instrument. And creativity allows you to have no system definitions.

It says, let's try this. You're open to any change. And we have, like we see ourselves not in the system and we didn't see ourselves in nature. The same is with creativity.

We just take it over generation. we got programmed and conditioned that this is what life's supposed to be in the Western world, for example. And it's obviously not because in the Eastern world it's different. Everything becomes westernized, but it is not an absolute.

And everything in the system is static and absolute. And that's why it is so dangerous because humans need sleep. Humans need to relax. when you give a person 15 calls to answer and the person wants to look five minutes in the freaking trees outside the window and you see that on the camera and say that guy is slacking off, he's lazy.

You are anti-human. You become, my fear is not that AI takes over, but that humans become like robots, not robots taking over. Because we are so good, our superpower number three is adaptability and we can adapt ourselves oh my god we can we would have not survived any holocaust slavery or or any war because we can adapt that's a superpower and leaders need to know number one superpower is creativity how we do anything how you do this podcast how i am doing this podcast with you then dialogue communication you and i and in order to have that conversation really gel adaptation three and there's nothing to learn there's no steps people just need to listen just listen to this episode a couple of times you're good there's enough seeds here that it i trust that it will sprout in your way that's why my podcast is always said 20 seconds you just listen to a quote you listen to the question and then you go on your way and do whatever you need to come, it will come up.

I love that. So my last leadership question is, what message would you want to send out today about neurodiversity to anyone working in the talent management sector? Neurodiverse people, not because they are human people. And what neurodiverse people will do is they will influence your static structure to be open up to flexibility.

And I'm finishing one book right now, but the following book will be about these things. How you're going to make systems human-adapt versus having human make system adapt and without human adapting to system, system itself function. So when you find out as a leader, see, the leader is not to say, hey, we have this job. Let's get that ADHD guy or that neurodiverse guy and let's have him do it.

It's about figuring out where that puzzle piece of that neurodiverse is the best. Obviously, it's not going to be the best. It could be, but because every neurodiverse version is different, but it could be. But usually they are more Richard Branson and they're human people.

They're more human than that. So if you want to bring in your customer service, more humanity, where it's really to connect to the customer, I would do neurodiverse people. So I was always a host in restaurants. I was always the manager, the people person.

If you need a people person, neurodiverse are super people. And don ask them as a leader don ask them to do logistic stuff They will screw up But most neurodiversaries are so ashamed which I was until 50 I was so ashamed to say that. Now when you say, oh, Deb said, oh, come, Michael, I have a job for you. I would say, Deb, I just tell you right away, I know my weaknesses.

And my weakness is logistics, you know. That's great advice. and knowing and having that awareness of this is what I'm good at, this is what I'm not good at, and this is where I shine. Just such clarity.

Okay, I'm going to switch to what I call my Fab Four, Michael. Okay. Four rapid questions just to learn a little bit more about you outside of your professional work. Yeah.

If I asked your family and friends to describe you in one word, what word would it be? I never thought about that. He's alive, I guess, alive fun. Yeah.

Perfect. What book have you read that you felt was really impactful? Okay, there's one book that, you know, The Power of the Moment, Edgar Toll, because that's for neurodiversity too, also for your listener. Because when you are in the moment, you're actually functioning way better.

And then you can actually access your superpower of that neurodiversity. I didn't understand that 10 years ago. and then I started reading it five years ago and I keep reading it over and over and over because I get deep and deeper into my neurodiversity. It actually is not a neurodiverse book for neurodiverse.

It's for everyone, but every time I read it, it helps me with my neurodiversity and being the human that I can be. And that's a great book. I'm happy you made that connection because that's a very powerful book. Yeah, and then the other book is the new book of Rick Rubin's.

I'm not done yet. Creativity, you know, just look it up. The new Rick Rubin book about creativity, A Way of Life. And it's very similar to my Smart of Art, but it is more the Bible.

He's literally like, it's like being in a moment, but also about creativity. This is about creativity. And it's like a book that you, and one book that you keep referencing. It's like literally like the Bible.

You need to, you know, look it up and what is about creativity. And it gives you wisdom and depth into creativity. Okay, good suggestions. Okay, my next question is, I'm going to grant you a wish to have dinner with a leader.

Now, this leader could be living or they could have already passed away. What leader are you having dinner with? And what is the dinner conversation? Miles Davis?

Miles Davis, because I think there was so much awareness in him. You know, Einstein said what Einstein said. And I'm not taking anything away. I think, you know, we human are inclusive.

We need everyone. But for me, the most creative is, I mean, when you say things, there's no false note. When you say something like that. And then that pops up.

That's why I have only my podcast is only a quote. When you say a quote and then the quote keeps opening up and opening up and opening up, that's power. So if it exists in nature, right, it's so parallel. If it exists in nature, you know, nature doesn't make mistakes.

I try this, I try that. Nature doesn't make mistakes. It just, you exist and you are valuable. If you're a beggar on the Fifth Avenue or if you are the people that walk on Fifth Avenue, you are valuable.

Not perhaps in the Monopoly game. Elon Musk might be good in the Monopoly game. Is he good in the human game? Is he fulfilled?

See, in the separation, I promote the separation of system-relevant is success. You hit the quarter, you pass the quarter, you hit a goal, and then separate. what is human is fulfillment playing with your dog going outside okay you know looking at art that's all rule human relevant and that gives you the fulfillment and what fulfillment is if people don't know what that feeling is it's the feeling right after an orgasm and basically it's you have a union and the feedback that you get emotionally is that union was a good thing.

I'm not saying that this is a perfect relationship or anything, but it's the fulfillment that we are inclusive. Inclusivity is important. Perfect. All right.

Well, before we close out the show and I'll ask you my last question, I want to thank you for being a creative and bringing awareness and really being a champion for people with neurodiversity and showing how much success they can have and with wishing you nothing but continued success, Michael. And I'm going to ask you to close out the show by finishing this sentence. Heart-centered leadership is? I wanted to say two things.

I wanted to say humans and awareness. Thanks for joining me today on Imperfect, the Heart-Centered Leadership Podcast. I hope that you've enjoyed the show today and learned some new tools for your leadership from our amazing Heart-Centered guest. And if you like the show, we would welcome a rating and review on whatever platform you listen to.

And we would love to have any comments or feedback at any time. And if you want some more heart-centered goodness, head over to our daily blog, masteringtheheart.com.