Forbes 250: Inside America's Most Successful Living Immigrants List

Speaker A: Welcome to Immigration Nerds. This podcast is for everyone seeking the details, context and facts behind the banner headlines on immigration. It's the podcast that gives you the latest on immigration policy and politics and the real world impacts on the people and businesses that make our world turn. If you believe immigration makes us all better, then this is the podcast for you, brought to you by the nerds at Erickson Immigration Group, guiding clients and their employees through the complex immigration system for over 30 years.

Speaker B: Hello, immigration nerds. I'm Lauren Clark, managing attorney at ah, Erickson Immigration Group. I am a fellow nerd and immigrant and host of this amazing podcast. On every episode, we're joined by the smartest nerds in the know as we cover trends in business, culture, technology and politics at the intersection of global immigration. Today's episode is a fun one. As we get closer to America's 250th birthday, a new list from Forbes caught, uh, our eye. The 250 most m successful living immigrants in the country. So we're pulling back the curtain on how that list actually gets made. We'll get the inside story from Forbes senior editor Alex Knapp. But first, let's get everyone up to date on the important immigration news. And for that, of course, we turn to our news nerd in chief, Erickson Immigration Group partner, Rob Taylor. Hey, Rob.

Speaker C: Hey, Lauren.

Speaker B: So, Rob, what is topping our news feed today?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I have a few things, as usual, to cover. Never, uh, a dull moment when it comes to immigration. So, starting on June 16, uh, the July Visa Bulletin was released by the Department of State. So just to give our listeners an update there, uh, there was some mixed movement in the priority dates with, uh, the advancement of the EB1 China and EB3 China categories for India. Notably, the EB1 India category retrogressed and the EB2 India category actually became unavailable. It's unlikely that availability will come about for EB2India until the start, uh, of the fiscal year in October. These changes were a bit unusual compared to previous visa bulletins, but DOS attributed the changes to sustained high demand in the EB1 category for and also highlighted ongoing demand for Chinese nationals. So, as mentioned, these dates probably will not see significant movement again until October. For those that are current, they did indicate that adjustment applications will be accepted for anyone under the final action chart. Moving on to some exciting news in immigration. The supreme court, in a 6 to 3 decision, struck down President Trump's executive order limiting birthright citizenship, reaffirming the long held principle that the Constitution guarantees that Nearly all children born on US Soil are citizens. So this is a great outcome. And what has been a long awaited court case regarding birthright citizenship. Uh, I think it's important to note that Justice Roberts concluded that children born to parents who are in the United States, whether unlawfully or temporarily, are born in the United States and subject to the jurisdictions thereof, and so under the Constitution, they are citizens at birth. And another notable case that is in the courts right now was also related to the $100,000 H1B fee. So we announced that it had been struck down by the court. But since that time, the Trump administration has appealed the decision and received a stay, meaning that the fee is now back in effect. The timing on when the appeal will be heard and determined is unclear, but hopefully we'll have a decision in the coming months on that. And then lastly, we just wanted to provide our listeners with an update regarding the new duration of status rule. So this was a rule that was proposed several months back and is now expected to be implemented by DHS any day. The final rule is really expected to largely mirror the proposed rule, which in short will change the admit until date for F1 and J1 visa holders from duration of status to a specific end date that aligns with their program. So what this means practically is for those individuals in F1 and J1 status, uh, they'll likely need to file extensions of stay in order to be able to be in the US beyond or in between programs that they'll be studying for. Uh, alternatively they are able to exit the US and reenter. But as we've seen in recent months and even years, uh, there is heightened scrutiny for F1 and J1 visa applicants. So for most folks probably staying in the US and applying for an extension would be the preferred method. And then also the rule did shorten the F1 current grace period from 60 to 30 days. So again, this will just be something that individuals on F1 will need to plan for as they wrap up their studies in the U.S. uh, so you know, ultimately at the end of the day, these folks will just need to make sure that they are paying more attention to their i94 status, that they're applying for extensions or traveling timely and you know, in order to ensure that they can stay enrolled and complete any program that they might be involved with. So that wraps up the news for this week, but as always we encourage folks to check out our website@eiglaw.com and see the latest news as we're always have stuff posted on a daily basis as Always.

Speaker B: Thank you, Rob.

Speaker C: Thanks for having me, Lance.

Speaker B: And now for a conversation about how you actually rank 250 of America's most successful immigrants and what that list says about the country heading into its 250th year. Joining me is Alex Knapp, a senior editor at Forbes, where he co edited the new Forbes 250America's Most Successful Living Immigrants list. Alongside Michael Noah, Alex has spent the year building out Forbes broader 250th anniversary project, a series of lists exploring different values that define America, from innovation to pluralism. And immigrants keep showing up at the top of nearly all of them. Alex, welcome to the Immigration Nerds podcast.

Speaker D: I'm, uh, excited to be here.

Speaker B: Well, Alex, if we can kind of start with the basics of the list. It's 250 people. I don't even know how you start to begin to reduce a list to just 250, I guess. Were some of these incredible immigrants already known to Forbes? Were there up and coming newcomers, some surprises? How did we get to this list of 250?

Speaker D: Sure, uh, it's a great question, as you might imagine, a daunting, uh, prospect. But fortunately, you know, at Forbes, we do a lot of different kinds of lists looking at different people ranging from our kind of signature billionaires list to our 30 under 30 lists to, um, a wide variety. So that turned out to be a great starting point. Um, most of the billionaires on our list who are immigrants are, you may not be surprised, featured on this list. When we're talking success, it's a very easy, uh, way to measure it. Um, and I also surveyed a lot of my colleagues in the newsroom. So, um, looking at the people that they had covered, who were immigrants, who were interesting, who maybe had not made it to one of those lists yet or when they'd worked on the list, like they were particular highlights to them. And so, you know, the newsroom was a really major starting point, uh, in terms of working this out. Some additions happen in real time. So the SpaceX IPO, I will tell you, surfaced a lot of people, um, in a variety of ways. So, like, for example, uh, Luca Nozick, who's one of the, you know, PayPal mafia, was an early investor in SpaceX, as were, ah, a lot of folks in that group who are mostly immigrants, I might add. Um, Elon Musk is an immigrant. Peter Thiel is an immigrant. Uh, Luca Nozick is an immigrant. He became a billionaire mid project because of the SpaceX IPO. So he got added. We also Ended up, uh, my colleague Ian Martin worked on our Midas list, which ranks the most successful venture investors. And because of the high valuation of SpaceX going into that IPO, there were a number of like new entries or people who had ranked higher on the Midas list. So again, many of whom were immigrants. And so a lot of those investors, you know, kind of ended up as late ads as we were, uh, kind of working through the process.

Speaker B: And I feel like those names aren't unknown. Um, they kind of are being on those Forbes list or are known in the media. Yeah, I guess my question is this list is not just a money list.

Speaker D: It's not.

Speaker B: Or I guess maybe is it knowing that these individuals are kind of being included.

Speaker D: I mean, it's not just a money list, but we are Forbes some money. You know, I'm going to just be being candid. It is a big part of it. We are primarily focused on entrepreneurs, um, investors, people who really created an enduring kind of business impact. Although that said, we were open to other folks who had succeeded on different metrics. So, for example, Olympic gold medalists, you know, world record breakers, uh, people who had big impact. Not just when we're looking at athletes, we really did look at people who had not just an impact in their career, but also after. I think Mario Lemieux is a big example for me because he not only was like one of the greatest hockey players of all time, big enough that even I m not a, I'm not a hockey fan, but I knew Mario Lemieux's name, so. But he also saved the Pittsburgh Penguins from bankruptcy, um, after his career. So looking for those kinds of stories where people kind of succeeded in multiple avenues. You know, if we were grading purely on money, Arnold Schwarzenegger would not have been our number one pick, but he was number one because we looked at so many different success metrics and he was at the top of nearly all of them. He was governor of California, then reelected governor of California. Um, he was, you know, athletic champion, he was a movie star, cultural icon. His philanthropy is extensive and, you know, thing people I don't think really know about Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was rich before he was a movie star. Uh, bodybuilding was not really a gateway to riches. Ah, at the time, it's really not a gateway to riches now, really. Um, but he took the money here and from bodybuilding and he made savvy real estate investments like that. One of the first places he bought to live in. Um, he, he talks about this in his memoir. Um, rather than Buy a house. He bought an apartment building and lived on the bottom floor. And like, that was kind of the start of his investment empire. So we did look at a lot of different metrics of success, and those who kind of succeeded multiple ways, you know, tended to find their way higher.

Speaker B: I feel like that's very symbolic, really, of the immigrant journey. Um, you know, something that we've looked heavily on at, uh, the Immigration Nurse podcast, is really the economic benefit and value that immigrants bring. So I don't think it's actually that surprising to understand that a lot of the people that are on this particular list are also within these financial lists, but that flow on effect that, you know, they have financial success and they're reinvesting in giving back to their community and their legacy, which I think is very clear of those additional people that weren't necessarily on the list for financial reasons. Um, Arnold being a great example, as you just outlined.

Speaker D: Yeah. And I think what is important, you know, looking at this immigration list, to me, we. We also wrote a feature story that accompanied it. My colleagues Giacomo Tagnini and Luisa Kroll, who wrote an amazing story about the economic impact of immigration. We interviewed a number of people who made the list about their stories and the importance of immigration. And when I also went through, you know, we not only did 250 living Americans, we also did 250 deceased Americans, which we politely call, you know, historic. And, uh, you know, it's amazing to see just how much of America was shaped by. By these people as well. So if we look at, you know, America, if you look at the things that America is. Is dominant in economically, which is a lot of things, but it's finance. Well, uh, a lot of the iconic financial firms were founded by immigrants. So Mellon, which is now bank of New York. So bank of New York. Mellon actually is a great example. Bank of New York was founded by Alexander Hamilton, an immigrant. And Mellon, also an immigrant. Goldman Sachs, founded by immigrants. Hollywood, every major studio was founded by immigrants. If you look at technology, I mean, we already listed off a bunch of tech names already. Like all of the areas in which America is dominant. Immigrants are at the core of all of those stories. And even when you look at athletics, there are a ton of immigrant athletes. If you look at science, nearly half of Nobel prizes that are awarded to Americans, they're naturalized American citizens. They were immigrants. So immigration is just, I think, core to our identity as Americans.

Speaker B: Especially when you do look, uh, at the history of it, that they're woven into the fabric of what America was What we are today and likely what we'll have in the future. And so I think it's a great point to zoom out, you know, this living immigrants list. And obviously the ancillary work you just referenced is part of something bigger we're building all year towards the 250th. Can you walk us through that in that context?

Speaker D: Sure. So for the 250th anniversary of the United States, we're actually partnered, uh, we're the storytelling partner of America 250, which is the bipartisan group that was set up by Congress 10 years ago to celebrate the 250th anniversary. And ah, our part in this is that we're doing, um, six lists of really 500 people because it's 250 living and 250 historic people for each, uh, centered on American values. The first one was innovation, uh, which we did earlier this year. This was again a list very heavily populated by immigrants. Number one, Elon Musk was an immigrant. So. And then for our second value was upward mobility, which we reflected through our Self Made Americans list. May not be a surprise to you that I think something, uh, over a quarter of that list was also immigrants, uh, kind of the coming to America penniless. In fact, uh, I had a conversation, we just had our event over self made immigrants. And uh, I talked uh, with Anastasia Sori, uh, who you may not know, but she is the reason why Americans have great eyebrows. Now. Um, she was basically the woman who kind of developed products specifically for eyebrow shaping and looking at the shape of the eyebrow. She was on Oprah, who is, uh, also on our self made list. Not an immigrant, but an important person to talk about anyway, because I got to meet her and it was very exciting for me. Um, uh, but she came here from Romania and by law she could not bring anything with her when she immigrated to this country. Like she, like the country of Romania at the time was communist and they did not allow you to, to, to come to another country with any assets whatsoever. So she literally came penniless and founded what became a $3 billion company and kind of like reshaping the American aesthetic, uh, while we do it. If you don't believe me, go watch TV from the 80s and then watch TV now and look how people actually pay attention to their eyebrows now. It's just kind of, it's like a silly thing, but it's actually like it is part of our esthetic now. It's part of our culture. And you know, that was her coming over Here with her daughter penniless. And just an incredible story. But I digress. Value three, getting back to this is pluralism. And that's how we're uh, expressing it through this list, which is our immigration list. I am currently already working on list four, um, which our value here is reinvention, where we're looking at through the lens of veterans and people who did military service and then kind invented themselves afterwards and built careers afterwards. Um, which includes some surprises. Like I did not know Warren Buffett served in the National Guard until I started working on this list. So that was uh, interesting to know. Um, our fifth value, we're doing a, uh, builder's list, is focused on physical infrastructure, construction, architecture, energy. So you know, folks like I.M. pei, the architect, um, who, who is also on our innovators list. I'm sure I'm not going to guarantee because I haven't even started that list yet, but probably going to make the grade. Um, and then our sixth value is still being finalized, but centered uh, around courage. And uh, we're kind of um, working on that. That's in development right now. Um, I do have a running joke with our Chief Content Officer Randall Lane, that all six historic lists, there's probably going to be one person who makes all six, and that's Alexander Hamilton. It was just, you know, immigrants, they get the job done. I guess so.

Speaker B: And I, you know, that's, I think I love the joke and it's. But I think it's also very telling. You know, we have these, these six values that's kind of defining America or American. And I'm sure there are names that are starting to pop up across all the different values.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker B: So I guess when you are putting together these lists under these values of Americ, does it make you think about what America is or being American means?

Speaker D: It absolutely does. And I think that part of the American story is this value that we have, which, you know, is, is not unique but I think maybe uniquely expressed here, uh, which is really that self determination and that self reinvention. And if you look at so many of our kind of cultural icons, they're not really people who remain static throughout their lives. They tend to be people who are accomplished in multiple fields. Like even Einstein played the violin. Right. It's, you know, it's uh, it's people who kind of stayed at the forefront of the times over the years. It's people who were really able to be adaptable. And I think it's very telling about our American story that the flexibility that adaptability there's not one way to be American. You know, there's not one thing you can point to and say, oh, that's definitely American. Oh, uh, that's definitely not. And I think that fluidity, the fact that we can put people as. As disparate as Arnold Schwarzenegger and Melania Trump and Peter Carey, uh, one of your, uh, compatriots from Australia, all on the same list for different reasons, I think really speaks to that essential American ness, which is indefinable but yet identifiable.

Speaker B: Well, Alex, I think it would be great to. To go deeper into the list to kind of get the specifics. Can you give us some of your favorites that are buried in the ranks of this list?

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I guess not buried because he's 22, but I do love Tony Zhu's story as a founder of Doordash, uh, because, you know, he washed dishes in restaurants as a kid where his mom was working as a waitress. And that, to me, there's just something so American about that generational story there. There's, uh, you know, number 200. Uh, I'm, uh, Gen X. So Michael, uh, J. Fox, uh, big star for me growing up. He was born in Canada. Uh, he is so American to me that I almost forgot he was an immigrant.

Speaker A: He.

Speaker D: He actually did not get on the list until later because I hadn't clocked him, uh, as. As an immigrant until I realized, oh, right, yeah, we got to get Michael J. Fox on the list. And, you know, uh, David Tron, who one of my colleagues wrote an amazing profile on which. Which you can go to Forbes and check out, he has fled Communist Vietnam. And, uh, without him, we wouldn't have Sriracha. And I can't even imagine the American culinary landscape without Sriracha. Uh, and, you know, just an amazing story and a great kind of icon of America as. As this melting pot of different cultural influen think he really stands with there. You know, Jose Andres, one of the early celebrity chefs, uh, you know, Michelin star chef. He. He's founded dozens of restaurants. But I. I think what's amazing to me about Andres isn't even so much the. The restaurant work he does, but his philanthropy, where he took, you know, the knowledge that he had in the restaurant business of being able to set up quickly, serve food quickly, all this stuff, and putting that into his philanthropy, where he can set up in the middle of a humanitarian crisis and be up and running in, like, less than a day, providing food to people. Taking that knowledge, he did took from the business World into philanthropy. I think that is an amazing story to me. Um, another great person on the list, and actually she's been on three so far, uh, is Catalyn Carico who is uh, she won the Nobel Prize, um, for her co discovery of the technology underlying MRNA m vaccines and is an executive at ah, Biontech, which co develop um, the COVID 19 vaccine with uh, Pfizer. And she came to the US with you know, a few hundred dollars hidden in a teddy bear. And she was nearly pushed out of academia. Really struggled to get her, her research and development ideas across but finally proved success, you know, with the COVID 19 crisis and MRNA vaccines are now being developed for everything from the flu to cancer. Uh, which I just think is personally just an incredible story.

Speaker B: I think that's my, one of my favorite things about the list is going through and then um, or reading it with other people and then being like they're not American.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And for so many of them it's either they're so synonymous with America or their contribution is so synonymous with American culture that there is sometimes that surprise. You know, Michael J. Fox being like he's not American born, you kind of, we forget because it becomes so ingrained with how we view ourselves and how we view America. Um, and I do have to say, and I do also have to ask, you know, as a fellow Australian, who's the most interesting Australian on the list? Because I know there are a number of them.

Speaker D: Well, yeah, I, you know, look, the obvious answer, and obviously the first person that comes to mind is Rupert Murdoch, who lover Murray, hate him. Has just completely shaped I think the last couple of decades of politics of news, the way news is covered, of culture through ownership of Fox. There's no Simpsons without Rupert Murdoch, if you can imagine that. So you know, it's kind of weird to think about, but I think maybe a more lesser known pick, um, for those of you not in tech circles would be Rodney Brooks who is the co inventor of the Roomba, is Australian and one of the great pioneers of robotics. Um, he was on our innovation list as well. And his really fascinating story and I've met him several times. I've met several of his robots. He's a great guy. And then maybe a little offbeat pick is uh, the novelist Peter Carey. He's one of only five people to win the Booker prize twice, um, of whom the only household name is Margaret Atwood. Um, and both of his prize winning novels were films. So good, uh, movies too. Like, you know, you can, you should go Watch them. I. I like them both.

Speaker B: Well, outside of, obviously, my incredible Aussies, what are the other, I guess maybe the top three countries of origin of this list?

Speaker D: Sure. Uh, for the living list, they are India, which is actually a leader by far. Canada, which I, you know, probably not a terrible surprise. A lot of great immigrants from Canada. They're Canada's. Well represented in the historic list as. And then Israel, we have a lot of great, um, uh, entrepreneurs who immigrated here from Israel. And then if you look at the historic list, I confess I did not fully crunch the numbers on the historic list, but the two that stood out to me, obviously Germany, which I don't think is too much of a surprise, but I remember going through the list and thinking, man, a lot of people on this list are from Hungary. And I think there's, like, a book to be written about Hungarian influence on the United States that I only scratched the surface of just putting some of these names on the list. But, uh, so many amazing people came from Hungary, and that, to me, was. Was surprising.

Speaker B: Well, Alex, this has definitely been a fantastic, fun episode. You know, we love to celebrate the immigrant story. Um, and this list really kind of just scratches the surface of the incredible fabric of immigrants within America.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Alex, uh, Knapp, Forbes Senior editor, thank you so much for joining us on the Immigration Nerds podcast.

Speaker D: Thank you for having me. This was a great time.

Speaker B: And nerds, you can find the link to the Forbes 250 list in our show notes, and you can track everything going on at, ah, Erickson Immigration Group at our website, eiglaw.com and remember, if you believe immigration makes us all better, then this is the podcast for you. Subscribe and share and meet us right back here for another new episode of Immigration Nerds.