The Trend that is Driving the Industry Crazy with Ryan Thomas

Speaker A: Hey, everybody. I hope you are having a great week. We've got a really exciting topic and interview to chat with you guys about today. I think it's something that we can all relate to in the industry over the last five or six years. But I want to introduce you to our guest for today. His name is Ryan Thomas. He's the director of sales and marketing at the Camby in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Ryan. Welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Hi, Whitney. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited.

Speaker A: Of course. Well, I always like to start these off with letting our guests kind of tell a little bit about themselves, who they are, and how they kind of, uh, their career in hospitality kind of came about. So give us a scoop.

Speaker B: Well, uh, I fell into hospitality, uh, got my degree in musical theater, traveled and toured and did that for a bit. And the restaurant that I was working at at the time, uh, needed a salesperson. They're like, you work with all the clients. Can you fill in? And then I was hooked and addicted, and it was quickly, uh, into hotels and continued growth from there. Bopping around all over the Phoenix metro area, learning all that I can from convention market to kind of the leisure of Scottsdale. Um, spending two years in Palm Springs and now been back at the Camby for just over a year now.

Speaker A: Okay. I can totally see the theatrical side. Are you. Can you sing? Are you good singing?

Speaker B: I can sing

Speaker A: because I can't. That is, like, of any, uh, talent I may have. That is not one of them.

Speaker B: So my mom makes the joke that I was singing before I was speaking.

Speaker A: There you go. So now in your hospitality career, do you ever get back in the theatrical space?

Speaker B: Uh, there's lots of different kind of MC things with, uh, associations I'm part of or different, uh, spots like that. There's always a good karaoke night going on. Uh, one of the big, uh, association kind of, um, galas that happens in the Valley always ends with a karaoke session at the after party. So you're usually finding me there.

Speaker A: Okay. Oh, I'm like, where have I been? Apparently, I need to be, uh. I'm, um, gonna have to get the info on this next event and show, uh, up for that, because I want to hear you sing.

Speaker B: It's. It's in July. It's the HSMAI annual auction. It's a wild time.

Speaker A: Yes. Okay. Okay. I missed it this year, but I've attended some of their stuff. Very cool. Um, I can totally see that. So now you are director of sales and marketing at the Cambie. So for Anybody who maybe has never visited Phoenix or known about the Cambie, give us a scoop about the Cambie.

Speaker B: The, uh, Cambies in a beautifully central location in the historic Biltmore district. Walking distance, uh, to the Biltmore Fashion park with lots of high end shopping and restaurants, uh, where 270 guest rooms. 279 guest rooms. Excuse me. Just went through a major renovation at the end of 2024. Uh, so brand new vibe, brand new feel all around the hotel. Uh, 22,000 square feet of event space, on site, restaurant, coffee shop, you name it, we've got you covered.

Speaker A: Love the Cambie. And actually a lot of the people that come on the show, I've never been to their property or their, Their, you know, restaurant, but I've actually stayed at the Cambie. I was there for a conference in 2021, maybe. Um, but yeah, right after Covid had the peak of COVID people started emerging again. I was there for a conference in 2021. What an awesome property. And literally in the middle of everything.

Speaker B: And since you've been here, we've gone down through this desert luxe revive. Uh, so it's a whole different feel throughout the hotel. Very luxe in local kind of taste and quality. So we're super excited.

Speaker A: I love that. And I saw you guys rebranded the restaurant too, right?

Speaker B: Yep. So Yellow Bell, Sonoran Southwest cuisine. So really giving you a taste of the locale.

Speaker A: Very cool. Actually, when I was there, I met Damon John from Shark Tank. That's.

Speaker B: He's great.

Speaker A: Yeah. So he was the special guest at the event. We all got to say hi and take photos with him and everything. That was my. Yeah, I forgot about that. So I know that Arizona, you know, uh, not to bring up the whole Covid conversation, but, uh, you know, I think it's relevant to kind of the trends we've been seeing over the last five or six years. Arizona. I was living in Florida at the time, so God knows we were wide open for business. But Arizona was maybe a little more flexible, um, and had, you know, still, um, had some travel going on. Uh, but since then, I mean, you know, how was Covid for y'? All? Did you guys see a big peak or was it steady?

Speaker B: So there was definitely this, uh, feeling of that revenge travel as everybody was kind of talking about for a minute. But because similar to Florida, we were of more flexible state in allowing, uh, meetings and events to happen. There was kind of this big drop off for a second, and revenge travel went away. And so everybody was kind of panicking for A minute, what do we do? How do we do it? And then this world of last minute, can't plan your life around anything kind of stuff started happening between both, um, transient bookings and group bookings were just and still continue to this day. Coming in that uh, 30 to 45 day window, I'm lucky if I'm getting a 60 day notice about something that's going on sometimes.

Speaker A: It's so actually refreshing to hear you say that because pretty much every client we deal with and we have clients all over the US everywhere from Richmond, Virginia, Houston, Florida. You know, uh, I feel like everyone is in that exact same boat. During COVID we kind of expected that. Right. Like you know, last minute things. And we were kind of grateful for any room night revenue we could pick up at all. But I got, I just feel like it hasn't gone away.

Speaker B: No, it feels like it's a last minute approval for things or I just feel like I need to get out of town for the weekend. Where do we want to go? And like, feels like it's almost like a dart at a dart board going, I guess Arizona is where I'm m going to go. Um, I mean even just this past December, we had incredible, uh, transient booking numbers. But they were all coming in week by week and we were going, where is this all coming from and what is causing all of this and where is this compression coming from? And you can't even pinpoint it. There was sure convention in downtown or sure there was a concert going on over here. But it was more than just that little uh, peak that happens because of something that was going on.

Speaker A: Sure. And it really surprises me that you say this about group because most of our other properties have kind of leveled out on group. But it's interesting to me that you're still getting last minute group bookings.

Speaker B: We uh, literally are signing a contract this morning for two weeks from now for 45 people for multiple nights.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: They're turning around, sending us a rooming list and everything ready to go. And that's just kind of a norm. We're still fitting in pieces in the month for the month. So as we're forecasting what's going to happen, we're constantly forecasting even last minute pickup because that's just the trend that we're still continuing to see. Not necessarily the larger, some of the larger scale things, but even 45 rooms on peak for a couple of nights is large for some properties. Um, and so it's still happening even on the group side. Yes, I can still Layer in some larger programs further out. But these small to mid sized programs are still in a short turnaround.

Speaker A: Wow. And I don't know how they like, um, like mobilize the whole group. And also, I mean, I guess I'm thinking like what types of meetings these are and the programming that they're coordinating and all those kind of things. To coordinate that on such a short notice is just so wild to me.

Speaker B: Well, but it's even sometimes it's feeling like the hotel and travel is the last thought that they had because they come in with the rooming list ready to go. They come in with who's traveling and what's going on and we're like, well, how did we get to this point without wanting to talk through anything else with us, um, beforehand. But you know, I'll take it. I'm not going to say no to revenue either.

Speaker A: Touche. Um, do you think that it's a strategy that they think they're going to get a better deal that way?

Speaker B: Um, I don't know. Because sometimes they're getting a worse deal because it's filling in the last rooms I sometimes have. And so it's at a pretty penny to come in and take it in. I'm willing to not negotiate on contracts as much or addendums or concessions to be given, uh, time. It's like, right, there's no time for anything. And sure, there's an idea of I'd rather have business than not have the business. But you're also, where are you going to go? Are you going to continue hunting for a while? So I have a little bit. It's kind of like we have a little bit of an upper hand at a certain point going. You got to make a decision at some point. So either you're going to take this or you're going to leave it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Here, here's what it is. What I have had the challenge with, with several of our clients is that they want to drop rate. And I'm speaking more from a transient perspective. They're wanting it. We're two weeks away and they're going, oh my God, we haven't met. Forecast that, that we have this many rooms to sell and they want to put on a last minute offer which then pisses off everyone who's already booked. So then you have the phones blowing up of, uh, why saw this offer, blah, blah, blah, and then they have to honor it to them. So they want to drop rate, put out some last minute offer which sends our team in a tailspin of like Trying to put this out. And then I, what, uh, I keep telling them is I feel like this is training people to behave that way. It's training the transient guests that if they wait until the last minute, that they'll actually get a better rate, you know, but at the end of the day, the client doesn't care. They're like, I don't care. I just have to meet, I just have to meet this forecast. You know, they're. They're freaking out, but I'm more thinking long term of like, uh, this is training them to, to pee on the carpet. I jokingly say it's like a dog. Like you're rewarding the dog for peeing on the carpet. We don't want them to book two weeks out. We want to incentivize them to book two to three months out like they were before COVID you know, really, it was three to four months, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm, I'm with you on that one too. And we have a kind of a similar thought process. We're not trying to tank rate at the last minute. A lot of times that's, uh, usually our last resort or last ditch effort to try to make something happen. We get a little more clever where, okay, can I do an Expedia promo? Because there's usually some other hooks that have to go into there or some of our other partners, like, how can I utilize my partners in, uh, more strategic ways where I'm not making everybody in the hotel angry because they found a better deal somewhere. That deal also required a full prepay or something along those lines that they didn't want to do, uh, well in advance or different flexibility options that someone who's looking in the last two weeks, are they really going to cancel? No. So they're willing to just go throw all the money at me, and if they do cancel, I get to keep it kind of a thing. And so we're. We try not to do the promos to what the generic group is, because then you get the risk of the trade down. Right. So the people I already have are now trading down, and the revenue I could have had is now being dramatically impacted by what's happening.

Speaker A: Uh, just diluting it, you know?

Speaker B: Yep. So just getting more clever, coming up with a clever partnership, uh, for some of those last minute things is kind of where we found and continue to find some of our success.

Speaker A: I, uh, cannot imagine what it's like to be a revenue manager right now. You know, like everything

Speaker B: touching everything every day. Yeah.

Speaker A: Their lives are now I mean, I've never been a revenue manager before, so I can't speak to that. But I've obviously worked alongside many, many of revenue managers. So it's like their job is to look at trends and forecast, you know, and budget and the market. And it is literally like they are chasing a greased pig right now.

Speaker B: And we refer to it as throwing that spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks kind of a thing. And so my revenue manager, her and I are a couple doors down from each other, and so we're constantly running into each other's offices, throwing spaghetti at each other's wall to figure out what's going to happen next. Or how can we throw a marketing tactic at something to go with, uh, a promo to get someone to book earlier or over need periods and different things like that. And so it's a constant, just idea battle and ideation formation kind of a thing going. Well, I heard of this thing. Do we want to try that or. As we all know, it's the big birth year of the United States. So we've got a call on Thursday with the Arizona sector and seeing how can I partner with you on the celebrations across the state and that kind of stuff. Not leaving any stone potentially unturned to try to figure it out.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because a revenue manager. God bless. You know, before they would, uh, you know, the properties that we worked with, or when I was in house, like we were looking at, they would set forecast a year in advance. You know, just especially for a property like, you know, when I was in house at a Hilton, that Hilton was over 35, 40 years old. So they would forecast a year in advance because they had seen trends over time. But I just feel like forecast is like a joke now.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's 90 days. We're kind of going, maybe m. That'll happen. Um, and you're really kind of honing in on your 30 to 60 days and really focusing in on how we can impact that short term. Because, like, we've continued to say, and like you've mentioned, as your clients are seeing all across the country, that's what's happening. And that's really where it is, where 90 days, you're kind of going, I have no clue what's gonna happen. Um, but how am I impacting the next 60 days to get it to come in?

Speaker A: Totally. And I think it's also sent ownership groups for loop. I mean, and I can't blame them. I see it from. I've obviously never owned a hotel, but I've worked with A lot of ownership groups and I understand where they're coming from for the perspective of this is their investment, right? Like they have bills to pay, they have, you know, assets to manage and you know, so they're looking at this from sheerly a um, data perspective. They're looking at numbers. Xyz, this isn't getting met, you know. And so there's becoming like this huge push and pull between and maybe there's always been. But ownership groups and the operations, uh, teams, because ops teams were just trying to figure it out. You know what I mean? We want to hit our goals but we don't know why this trend is still here. You know. And ownership is putting a lot of pressure. You know, maybe that's different in every situation. But you know, ownership puts a lot of pressure on the teams and the management teams because they want to hit goal. But at the same time it's like we, we aren't human behavior analysts. You know, like we're doing everything we can. So I don't really know how to mend that scenario, you know.

Speaker B: You know we're really lucky here that we've got a really beautiful relationship with our ownership at the hotel. And what we have found as our success on that is constantly building long term plan plans to make sure things don't happen or contingency plans or if X happens then Y is going to happen. Um, my general manager at the hotel is brilliant at watching that bottom line and making sure that if we're missing the top, we're at least making sure that all expenses are lining up at the bottom to ensure that the profitability long term remains the same. Um, and really continuing to build that trust in there and that we're putting measures in play that could potentially impact long term versus a short term window. Sure, they want the money now, but this is a, for our owners, this is a long term investment for them. This isn't something that they were looking to flip in a renovation, uh, and then make it look pretty for a couple years and then sell it. This is, they've made an investment in the lot for the long term in, in the area. And so keeping them at uh, bay is really keeping instilling that trust that we know how to handle and operate your baby, essentially your big high dollar baby. Um, and that your trust in us is there because of the intelligent decisions that we're making. We don't take a trend as the word. Right. We, we're not going well, no one's coming to the area so we just can't do anything. Summer is the prime example. As everybody knows, summer in a desert space is impossible to book. But we're always trying to come up with that next idea or the next promotion or the next, uh, discount or creative, uh, group solution, um, to fill in that summer business. And that's what instills that trust. So when you have a month that's a little bit of turmoil there, isn't that true? Divide that starts to come into play because they know that this is a hiccup versus a norm.

Speaker A: Right. And I think you said it really well about like, it's a long play. Right. Investment, especially real estate investments, are you're not going to flip it and make, uh, you know, a million dollars overnight renovation or not. It's like this is a long term play and as long as you have a team that, you know, you know, that is really hustling for, you know, the, to figure this out in any way we can, uh, you know, rather than, like you said, being the person that's like, well, it's 118 degrees outside, we can't do anything, so I'm just gonna sit in my office and chill, you know?

Speaker B: Right. Like that's just the, that's not the answer. And that's, that's where you get caught into trouble. Uh, and it's. How do you continue to motivate everybody around the property to, to continue to push and think creatively and think strategically and, and figure out what is it that's going to get that win?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And also like you said, like, looking outside of not just what you sell, like, how do you partner, how do you collaborate, how do you stay in touch with what's happening in the market? Like you mentioned, um, before when we were chatting in these new flights. Right. Like, yep, you've got a whole new window of opportunity right there.

Speaker B: So now, so now the Asia market is flying directly into Phoenix. And so, um, you can get over here through two different airlines, uh, now to the Phoenix area. So now you're seeing that trend come into play where you're looking from a marketing perspective, as you know from your experience, you're sitting there seeing who's hitting my website and now all of a sudden there's Singapore and there's Hong Kong and you're like, those were usually lower on my list and now they're number three. Um, and so how can we impact that and really speak to those customers and engage those guests that are coming in from over there? Both from, um, uh, business travel, but also just leisure travel? As well, to get them to stay within your area. So keeping an eye and paying attention to all of that and really trying to figure out creatively how to work through all of that.

Speaker A: Uh, and I think paying attention to emerging markets is so valuable. I'm the nerd that looks at Google Analytics literally, like, every couple weeks, because, like you said, you start to see these little pings from these new cities or countries. And I do think a lot of it is, is who gets to it

Speaker B: first, you know, oh, 100%. At the end of every month, I'm diving in, going, okay, so what's going on? Like, there was one month, it was Wyoming just hit randomly that was coming to look at this hotel. I was like, what is going on in Wyoming? That now would be a Phoenix idea. Snow hit earlier than normal. And so I was like, okay, well, I guess we gotta get our winter promos going, because there are regions that are getting it sooner rather than later, and they're now starting to plan and think. Um, and so it's just not sitting on what you've always known. It's always looking at what's the next step and the next thing. Throwing that spaghetti at the wall and not being afraid if it doesn't stick. Right. Because not everything's gonna work. Not every idea is going to work, but you have to be willing and wanting to test and try.

Speaker A: Right? And I think what you said, I mean, it is spaghetti at the wall, but at the same time, like, you're pulling these ideas so it's not complete blind. Spaghetti at a wall. You're taking a little tiny nugget and you're like, okay, there's something here. I'm gonna throw spaghetti at that nugget.

Speaker B: Or even, like, you could talk it, like, truly pasta. I'm gonna take the penne noodle and see if the penne noodle sticks, and then we'll try rigatoni next.

Speaker A: Yeah. But I do think the first, you know, the early bird gets the worm, you know, and paying attention to that data. And like you said, not everything we do works. That's so funny you say that. I tell that to our clients all the time. I'm like, I've been doing this almost 20 years, and not everything I I think of works the first time. There's. If it were that easy, everybody would be a multi, multi millionaire. You know what I mean? Just get someone with experience in marketing and they know exactly what to do, and they turn the machine on and we make a million dollars. Like, I think some people think it's that easy. But I think it is the willingness to fail and the willingness to try things and gather data. I guess it's not really failing if you gather data from it. Sure.

Speaker B: And sometimes the simplest idea can sometimes be the best. When my first director of sales and marketing positions, we came up with this s' mores and toast promotion for the holidays. And you got two cocktails and a s' mores kit on top of your regular stay. And we bought like a couple kits just to have them available, just in case it buys. Because nine times out of 10, a package is using for marketing or PR stunt or whatever, and it doesn't always book. But all of a sudden we had to go buy more s' mores kits because it seemed like everybody was willing to pay the 25 extra dollars per night to get a, uh, s' mores kit and two cocktails. And it was like historically the best selling package ever. And it was something that literally in a meeting I was like, why don't we just do something like with s'? Mores? I don't know. We've got cabanas around the pool, it's cold outside, nobody really wants to use it, but we could go sit them over there and they can have s'. Mores. And it was just that, uh, random idea that was just priced just right enough over it that made people think it was fun and sold like hotcakes. So you never, never really know what's going to be the thing that sticks or talks to somebody that time.

Speaker A: Kudos. And also, as a PR person, I use packages all the time. And the client says, why are we even doing this? No one books our packages. And I'm like, but it's something unique to talk about, you know, like something to get us on, you know, maybe a special website or somebody that picks up a cool story, a travel blogger, have them come in and experience it. And it's something to talk about rather than book a room. Right.

Speaker B: We had a holiday suite this holiday season that we've never done before. It was all decked out. You got cookies and milk upon arrival. It had two bookings the entire time from, um, Thanksgiving to just this past weekend. But we were in three different blogs. We were part of Visit Phoenix's big push across the Valley. Um, and different things like that was shared on social media. Um, and even the guests that would get upgraded to that room just randomly were sharing it. So it ended up being a success in a completely different way than what, you know, at first people automatically assume is Your point, which is to try to make money off of it. And I'm like, no, we just want to be talked about. Uh, and the more that you can be talked about, the better.

Speaker A: God, you get me. Of course. We're like, both marketing angles. Yeah. Uh, usually it's so hard tooth and nail of how many of these did we sell, then we're never doing it again. And I'm like, yeah, but look at visibility is roi. Yep. Visibility. There is ROI to visibility, even though it may not lead to an exact dollar and cent, you know, but there is. There is return on consistent visibility. Because I always say you can have the most beautiful hotel in the world and spend millions of dollars on a renovation, but if no one remembers you exist, if you disappear into the background or you're only there on Expedia when they're somebody's looking for a deal, you'll never survive.

Speaker B: 100%. Um, and at the end of the day, we look at it as, okay, so I've got that exposure. The two bookings had enough night stays that it ended up paying for the decor that we purchased for the room. So are we out any money? And the answer is no. So we didn't lose money. We just gained exposure. And so therein lies kind of the idea of going, well, can we do this again? Can it be a love suite? Can it be a leprechaun suite? Can it be right? Can we rotate it out throughout the year? Um, and different things like that. So it sparked ongoing conversations within the hotel of how can we expand it and maybe continue to try it, and maybe it becomes that thing that everybody then talks about where now they want to book the hotel to see what the holiday suite is or whatever the case is.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And there's some properties that have done this, like, really, really well, and it's become like an annual thing, you know, And I think that's how, especially in a market like, you know, Phoenix is, gosh, got so much travel saturation in a wonderful way.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Um, you know, that means that the business is there, but that also means the competition is there, you know, 100%.

Speaker B: And so how are you standing out from the competition? And what makes you unique to that guest and what. What's that lasting impact that they have to go tell their friends that when you come to Phoenix, you gotta go stay at the Canby?

Speaker A: I think it's all about experience. You know, they like a comfortable bed. Of course, they expect clean sheets and a clean space and all that. But what is the experience and how Is the experience different at your property? You know, I think that's what it boils down to.

Speaker B: A hundred percent.

Speaker A: Love it. Well, Ryan, I appreciate you taking time to come onto the show. This has been so awesome. Uh, and I would love for you to give everybody a shout. Let them know, um, if they want to connect with you. How. What's the best way to, um, connect with you or to learn more about the Camby.

Speaker B: So you can connect with the Camby, uh, either on social media or our website. We're hecambie on socials and then www.thecambi.com. um, and then me, I'm on LinkedIn. Feel free to connect and let's chat more about short term business or the headaches of it. Uh, and if you're ever in Phoenix, check out the Cambie. We got lots of fun things going on all the time.

Speaker A: Maybe we need to start our own support group for all of us.

Speaker B: We'll be every Tuesday at 5 o' clock with a cocktail in our hand.

Speaker A: Um, I will be there and I need to come see the new renovations.

Speaker B: 100%, so.

Speaker A: All right, Ryan, well, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show. It's been awesome having you.

Speaker B: Thanks, Whitney. It was a pleasure being on.

Speaker A: All right, y', all, well, we will see you on the next episode. Thanks so much for tuning in.