How to Make Hotel Wellness Practical and Profitable - Emily Johnson, Erica Huss, and Jen Veralle

Speaker A: This show is brought to you with support from Actable, the company that helps more than 150,000 hoteliers run more efficient and profitable hotel businesses every day at every level. See why more than 90% of the top 50 management companies in the US use actable@actable.com that's a C T a B L dot com. Wellness is such an important part of hospitality, but time and again it's, it gets deprioritized amidst all the financial pressures and everything else that goes into owning and operating a hotel. In this conversation, we're going to explore some ways that might surprise you on,

Speaker B: um, what it can look like to

Speaker A: help guests rest and feel better without a big capital investment. We'll also look at how better sleep non alcoholic beverage offerings and experiences such as sauna can connect directly to driving revenue and profitability. Our guests today bring so much experience to this conversation and so much we can learn from. They're going to introduce themselves in a moment, so without further ado, let's, let's get into it.

Speaker C: Hospitality. Hospitality.

Speaker B: Hospitality.

Speaker D: Hospitality brings people together.

Speaker A: This is Hospitality Daily, the show that helps you stay informed and inspired each day by the most interesting people in hospitality. My name is Josiah Mackenzie and my goal is to help you reconnect with why you work in this industry and

Speaker B: get fired up to go out there,

Speaker A: delight others and reach your goals. Let's get started.

Speaker C: Foreign.

Speaker B: I'm really excited to be speaking with you all. I think we have a really exciting conversation ahead of us and a timely one, uh, an important one that represents a lot of opportunity for the business leaders that are listening, but for providing incredible hospitality to guests as a way for our listeners to get to know you all and also to just associate, you know, your voices, uh, with names. We're just going to speed round of, uh, the incredible professionals we have in this recording. Emily, I'm gonna go to you first. If you could share where you're focusing your time and attention these days and then just a little bit of your journey into how you got into doing what you're doing today. And then we'll go around the room before getting into our conversation. So Emily, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker D: Awesome.

Speaker E: Thanks again, Josiah. Well, I'm excited to be back with you again today. It's, I'm becoming a happy repeat guest here with you, Josiah. So I'm Emily Johnson. I am the founder of Elevate Hospitality Collective. We have a big focus on how we can commercialize wellness in hospitality in hotels specifically. My background is 20 plus years in business development, sales in hospitality. But once upon a time, almost 20 years ago to the date now, I wrote a paper, a research paper back in college about what I felt would be wellness trends in hospitality. And it feels like finally hotel world is catching up. But the thing that I really think has been missing is hoteliers understanding how to commercialize these ideas and really make sure that we're actually making money on them. Right. Because it's important as an owner operator today to not just add, but really have a fundamental understanding of how that drives new revenue and produces roi. So that's one of the reasons why I invited the two brilliant minds who are with us today. I believe that they're helping do that work.

Speaker F: So.

Speaker E: So I'll pass it on to Erica.

Speaker C: Thanks, Emily and Josiah, thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here and I'm really excited just to dive in, as Emily said, to all of these brilliant hospitality minds coming to the table from different perspectives. So I had a long career in the wellness industry. I actually started in hospitality early on and then my entrepreneurship started when I built and, uh, co founded a company called Blueprint Cleanse. And I've really spent about two decades in the wellness world. And for me, you know, along the way, I really came to believe that it's wellness is more about, you know, more than just what we consume. Right. It's also the environments that we find ourselves in. And there's really no better example of that than the world of hospitality, which really allows me to fuse my two true passions, which is, you know, travel and hospitality with wellness. And the realization has really brought me into this full circle moment where I can really focus in on the experience of sleep and rest and what a truly restorative experience is. And so I'm building a company called Phosphora, which is essentially creating a standard for restorative stays. You know, I'm of the mind that we have standards for sustainability. We have standards for what makes a healthy space a, uh, healthy building. But we really don't have anything to indicate to the traveler whether, you know, the property is actually going to help you rest. And so that's really where I'm diving deep and, um, building.

Speaker B: Very exciting. Jen, over to you.

Speaker F: Yeah. So happy to be here. Thank you for bringing us all together. Emily and Josiah, I'm very excited to have this coffee conversation. I love how that is shaping up here. Yeah. So Jen Varale. I'm Minneapolis based and I came to this space about 12 years ago when I got sober and I call myself sober necessary. And what I started to notice and as a person in the events industry was that NA options were just lacking for me. So I ventured out on my own, started my own events and marketing business and fast forward to about four years ago. I did a TedX talk on drinking culture and why we should all be rethinking what society tells us is normal.

Speaker D: And then also at the same time

Speaker F: found sauna and a love of sauna and the social experience experience of it, which actually helped me on my sobriety journey, maintain sobriety but also celebrate the, uh, sober and alcohol free lifestyle.

Speaker D: So I have two companies now, Mindful Drinking Movement, which is my umbrella where I talk and invite anyone who's sober, curious or just interested into the conversation. And then Wild Rise, which is my sauna brand, doing retreats and holding space and guiding people through sauna and the hospitality connection to that is simply, it's, it's missing, it's not being delivered, I think in the way that it can be. And I want to see brands that really want to embrace what it looks like to deliver those experiences.

Speaker B: Incredible. So even just from these intros, I think it's obvious why we brought this group together and the incredible perspectives that are represented here. I think there's so much that we can get into. Emily, you touched on this before, but I would love to hear you expand a little bit more on why you wanted to bring these amazing professionals together for this conversation. Why this, why now? Why do we need to dig into this as an industry?

Speaker E: Absolutely, Josiah. So I will tell you. Over the last several months of talking to owner operators, you know, wellness has obviously become this huge topic and I think a lot of owners are thinking, how do we bring in, you know, wellness? And what I've been chatting about, it's typically that they're afraid because of the capex overhead of we have to bring all of this in, we have to build out this big beautiful spa. And I think I've had the pleasure of, over the past, you know, know, several months, years, meeting professionals who have helped me even understand that that's not necessarily the case. A lot of the hotels even have the current infrastructure to embrace new programming without really spending much money. But it's really about using what they already have or leveraging what they want to be and leaning into that niche. So many of the hotels I see now talking about being a wellness hotel and I go on their website and I see, oh, they have a spa and they have a fitness center. And then they slap that beautiful wellness banner on it. What does that even really mean? Right. What does that mean to each individual who's traveling? And so part of what I even question owners on some of my first calls are, you know, what is the right niche for your hotel? Before you make any decisions or invest any money, we really should determine what are you trying to be? What does the market want from you? What are the travelers looking for that are coming to your area? And some of the biggest trends I've seen. And again, why I thought of Jen and Erica. Sleep is huge right now. Restorative travel, going places where you really feel like you leave feeling more rested. What does that mean? What does that look like? And how do you lean into that? And I'm sure Erica will touch more on what that really means. And then what Jen is doing in the sauna space community is a huge topic. I've been writing about this myself. Folks are looking for different ways to connect, and I think the NA and sauna space. I don't even know if I've said this to Jen, but to me it makes a lot of sense. We're not all looking to drink as a way of connection anymore. That has changed. And yet a lot of hotel bars have not evolved with that. So that's where I think the NA piece will come in. And sauna, I think, goes into that beautifully because there is this awesome space to connect with sauna where people can make these community connections, have experience experiences together. Wellness and experiential, to me are also like hand in hand. And so my company has always been called the Collective because I enjoy working with other experts in the space. When I've determined, okay, this hotel really is a perfect space for restorative travel or sleep, who is the expert that I can work with on this project who can actually implement that program? So I've gotten to know Erica and Jen, and these are two of the professionals. I've been fortunate to meet many professionals as of recent, but I think what they're doing is so meaningful in the conversation of wellness right now with both restorative and building community. These are real examples without this giant capex of ways that hotels can actually leverage what they have or implement small changes and make meaningful progress in how they actually derive ROI and new revenue.

Speaker B: So good. And I want to unpack this because, Emily, you said there's many in the industry that maybe haven't evolved or moved in a direction where they could or they should. And I want to unpack this from the perspective of maybe some barriers or some misconceptions to this. And Erica, I'll go to you first and, and then to you, Jen, to get your reactions to this. But I think from my outsider's perspective, if I'm thinking better sleep, I maybe am thinking of millions of dollars of investment into mattresses or blackout shades or things like this. And I don't get me wrong, I do love those. But for someone who's listening that isn't able for whatever reason, to move on all of that right now, what are some of those misconceptions around maybe sleep, specifically where a, uh, hospitality or a hotel leader might be able to make some progress in this area, provide a better guest experience, and maybe they're not thinking about things as. As they should.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's a great question. And I think to echo a big piece of what Emily is saying, I think wellness has really evolved. First of all, the word wellness, I think still makes me kind of feel like, itchy, because I think that it has just been so diluted and it really has lost its real sense of meaning. But what it has evolved into is, is way beyond amenities. And so to, you know, to Emily's earlier point, it's not about, if you're not a wellness forward property, then what are you doing adding all of these extra bells and whistles, investing that capex, and then wondering why it's not resonating. If you're all about, you know, bachelor and bachelorette parties and then people aren't using your wellness amenities like there's a disconnect there. It's not about the investment. It really is about putting yourself in the shoes of the guest, thinking through those hours of the day, and in my case, more importantly, those hours overnight. So, you know, my work as a certified sleep coach, I work in both a, uh, one on one capacity as well as in more of an organizational capacity. And on that level, it's really like, let's think about, you know, the conditions that you have set up for this overnight experience. It doesn't have to be about the $3,000 mattress cover. And I'm actually very anti. Because I do believe that there's the, the whole, the whole premise of, of hacking and fixing and restoring your sleep goes back to our very primitive instincts, which have to do with natural light, quiet place. It's nervous system regulation, right? So these are the things that you can spend all that money and you may get a good outcome, but you don't have to. So it's really kind of scaling back to the basics and saying what are your options that exist in terms of people getting first morning sunlight, you know, first thing in the morning. And how do you communicate that in a way that feels impactful? It doesn't feel preachy so much as it's more of like a, uh, hey, did you know, you know, come outside on our terrace first thing, take your morning walk, go put your feet in the sand. Something that encourages that very natural synchronicity back into our circadian rhythm without feeling like you're selling something. We'll be back after a quick break.

Speaker B: Are you enjoying this conversation?

Speaker A: If so, I invite you to pause this episode and text it to a friend or colleague right now. Not only will you let them know that you're thinking of them, but you'll help and inspire them as well. Thank you. And let's get back to the conversation.

Speaker B: That's amazing. And I feel like every year that goes by, the more I am aware of how important sleep is. You know, anybody who's had a bad night's sleep instantly knows, you know, this is so important and huge, uh, opportunity for us. So we'll come back to some of the details of that. But Jen, I want to kind of go to your world and where you focus your time and attention because I find often to drive change you have to address the misconceptions or misunderstandings of what's out there. How do you see that playing out? What are some of the barriers that you're encountering that maybe we need to. Some myths we need to dispel for hospitality leaders in this area that you're working.

Speaker D: First of all, I just want to say sleep and alcohol misuse are so closely tied together. I remember traveling and indulging in alcohol and waking up at 3 in the morning. So this all is just proving like the connectivity between all of our work. So yes, um, some of the things that I want to address are really the disconnect between like let's say you have non alcoholic options on your menu and your team, your food and beverage team, are all working to sort of have that offering as a checkbox for your guests. But what I find is the missing element here is the actual language and conversation. And this starts even when a guest is looking for you online. How are you talking about your non alcoholic options? And oftentimes in social media and on, um, websites, all I see is alcohol. So you look at the visuals and it's bars and like you can relax here and unwind with alcohol. And the tricky thing about NA is it's obviously served in A glass. And when customers are looking for that experience online, it's not readily apparent that you are also serving N A or you're an NA forward venue. So I think there's work on that side and there's opportunity for restaurants, hotels, and hospitality to really own that conversation from the beginning. So then I also talk about the cultural piece of it. And what I see as a disconnect is, again, these offerings might be on the menu, but the bar, the staff, the restaurant itself, in your hospitality location does it is completely unaware of the NA options and what's offered. So that's one piece. And then the revenue conversation is so important. I have an example of a restaurant I worked with pretty intently, and we did things around dry January. We introduced a, uh, NA menu that had six options. And they kind of were. I mean, really, the pairing with the food was one of the huge successes. And then their goal was, let's change Diet Cokes to NA. So Diet Cokes were at that time, you know, 450 on the menu. NA was 12. So we were able to measure and improve those offerings and revenue and then be able to see that shift. And we got the, um, staff and everyone excited about that because leading with N A and an offering can allow permission for people to choose it. And that's, again, I always say we need to give people permission and get them accepted. Excited about the NA option. And that starts from the language, and then it's carried over to how that beverage is served. Obviously, elevated NA products that are sugary, that deliver the experience, that pair with food, are all really great ways to, you know, dig into your program and make that a success.

Speaker B: I love that and love the connection back to revenue, Emily. I think from our first conversation, something I've enjoyed in our conversation since then is some of these elements of wellness or taking care of guests I want to see happen. And often they don't happen because it's not connected back to revenue. It's not connected back to business performance. And I think from our first conversation, Emily, um, you've always thought about this with the owner's hat on. How does this make money? How does this improve performance? I think that's how you get stuff done in our industry. And so it's just awesome to hear some of these examples.

Speaker E: Correct. Yes. So important. I do think that's the, uh, missing piece is even for me. Obviously. There's so much conversation going on now on LinkedIn. Again, maybe this is also my algorithm and my feed, but I'm seeing stuff about wellness Every day. And I'm nodding my head and I'm agreeing with so much that I see out there making my own commentary. But for me, it really is, we have to tie that back to outcomes because otherwise, having worked on the ownership side or the operator side, right now hospitality is in a place where it's very hard to convince any investment unless we know that there's going to be some sort of tie into revenue. So I actually love the story even that Jen just said. And when we have actual data and research, sometimes before these, Josiah, I end up sending you some research that I found because I think that really helps m move the conversation to say, hey, we're not just talking about NA because it's interesting and something you should do, but we also truly, genuinely believe, based on there was a story that Jen just told, but also based on industry research, that, uh, by having a program that really actually highlights this and isn't just, hey, there's two drinks at the end of the menu that are na, you actually can derive outcomes in terms of your food and beverage revenue. And I think, you know, being a hotelier, I will tell you, we all know that food and beverage oftentimes is a, is a loss leader. I think folks outside the industry don't realize that that beautiful hotel restaurant that you sat in last night because you happened to be at the hotel, oftentimes, even if it's gorgeous and the staff is wonderful, it still is a loss leader for most hoteliers and most hotel ownership groups. And so being able to also say, hey, look, some of these NA beverages we can actually put together at a low cost. But then as Jen just explained, selling it at $12 as opposed to giving them that unsweetened iced tea for three or what have you, now you're actually driving new revenue that you didn't before. But I'm, um, sure staff training is a part of that, right? Making sure the staff is well aware, well versed. And that's why it is beneficial to pair with experts who can launch those programs for you for sure.

Speaker B: And I'll include a bunch of links in the show notes. We've already talked about so many resources, the TEDx talk, you know, the research that all this stuff is really important to check out. So include all those links in the show notes where our listeners can check those out. But Jen, I want to go back to you and then I'll go to Eureka. I want to bring this to life with some, some stories, some examples of kind of what this looks like. We've talked about some of these already. But I would love to help our listeners understand what does this look like when a program M is deployed. And I was doing some research into some of your experiences, Jen, and, uh, my understanding is that, you know, you had an early sauna experience that kind of showed you the of all this. And you alluded to this a little bit in your opening remarks. But I wonder if you could share a story or some stories about what does this look like when it's done. Well, just to help our listeners understand a little bit more about some of the potential here.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think going back to Emily's point about finding out, you know, who in the organization might be, like, someone internally, like, I call them an NA advocate, like, who cares about this within the organization. And I have found a wide range of people that I've worked with that you would think may be interested in it, but for whatever reason, they just have resistance to it or they have a lot on their plate. So what I look for is someone in the organization that has an interest in this. So my two examples are chef driven. So with the restaurant I worked with, he said to me, he's like, I have so much joy in serving my food. And when I look out onto my restaurant and everyone's enjoying the food and I see that they have, you know, alcohol, like a Bacardi, Diet Coke or whatever, he said he doesn't get excited about that. What he gets excited about is these great. Any beverages that pair with the food and alcohol actually dims your taste buds. So these botanicals and these combinations and things they're able to create pair with food. So the chef excitement and working with them, because it's also seasonal ingredients and you can change the menu and everyone gets excited about that, and the staff and the servers can get behind that. So in the two examples I worked with, it really came from chefs that wanted to see that happen. And then. Then I start working backwards to who is the bartender, what is their experience? And then being able to deliver that

Speaker F: on a full spectrum.

Speaker B: If I could just jump in there and add. Cause I want to underscore this. I think such a good point you raised. Cause I was going to ask you about how do you get teams bought in? Because often something there's good ideas that kind of go to. They die because there's not buy in on the ground. But I think this is such a great example. And I want to go back to kind of what you're saying here, but I want our listeners to really understand this. And I think Your attention to what is the interest, engagement, you know, on the ground, on the front lines, it feels like this is so, so important.

Speaker F: Yes.

Speaker D: So we get the wisdom of the chef and then we also with the staff, if they are younger, they are the group that is not drinking. So we have this perfect opportunity to be able to educate that they already get it. Like, they're not leading with let's, you know, have everyone at the table do rounds of shots. They're very much like, care and serving that because they themselves live that. So that's a change that I'm seeing in an opportunity for, like, middle and upper class management to recognize the enthusiasm in these servers and really take advantage of that. So that's a cool dynamic that I see happening.

Speaker B: So cool.

Speaker E: I would say, too, Josiah, like, even jumping on that, I think Jen hit on a point for me that I think is so true, is, look, I'm a millennial. Am I an elder millennial? I don't know. Something like that. I think I'm an elder millennial at this point. And, you know, our generation was quite different than the generations that are following us. And, you know, again, I'll be the first to admit I'm not this. I'm not an NA expert like Jen is, but I can see with my own eyes and the data and the research is there that the alcohol usage on the generations after us is just much lower. So a lot of the folks who are owning and operating hotels are like me, that are elder millennials, or maybe even the next generation above me, and they may not understand so much unless we present them with this data that shows, hey, we.

Speaker D: You may.

Speaker E: This may not resonate even with you personally. You yourself may be like, what are you talking about? But the folks coming in who are going to be sitting at your bar, they're not interested in what you're serving them in that giant glass of alcohol. Right. But, you know, the generations coming up, the ones who are sitting at the bar, are not as interested in that. And so if you want to capture more revenue, you also need to provide them with options that they're actually interested in.

Speaker B: But this is what I love about your work, Emily, is you're so data focused. Right? And I think this is such a good point because we can often over index on our experiences are preferences. And I think when you're a hospitality leader, you need to look at the data. You need to look at, what do my guests want? And so I think, again, I'll. I'll include a bunch of links in the show notes where people can check out some of the research. But this is a really important way to think about this. Erica, I'd love to go to you. And I think, again, kind of in the interest of case studies or examples of, you know, what does this look like when it's done? Well, I'd love to see more of this stuff in the world. And I wonder if there's an, uh, example that comes to mind where you've seen they've been able to adopt elements of better sleep into a hotel experience and what that might look like.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I think it does come down to, you know, to Emily's point, where this is. This can be a measurable outcome. This can really be something that you can see the impact, the roi. Because you make these small adjustments, you might even be able to add a little bit to your nightly rate if you are indicating and kind of signaling and broadcasting that you are doing things right. If you have this badge of certification that says that sleep is a priority here, a restful experience is a priority. So in my opinion, you know, I think the room is actually, that is the most. That is the most powerful wellness facility on the property. The actual guest room. There are, from top to bottom, all of these little adjustments that you can make, whether it has to do with the actual offerings in the example of like a sleep menu. And that can be anywhere from, you know, options having to do with pillows and linens and extra blankets and all of that, to an F and B component, which ties in really nicely with Jen's work. You know, there are preparations, there are elixirs, there are things that you can offer there to playlists and meditations and content, all of which is kind of that 360 degree sleep supportive environment, as well as. Then the education piece, which comes in the form of staff training. And you have one to two talking points that the staff can share in A, in an organic and authentic moment that imparts to the guests. Like, sleep is something we take really seriously and have them really deliver on that message. So it really becomes kind of a holistic philosophy. Again, I think, you know, rest is not the amenity, right? Rest is the entire point. You are turning over the night of rest to someone else. So anything you can do from top to bottom, really indicate that this has become a priority and that this is a pillar. There is an element of ROI that you can certainly attach to that. And ultimately the guest outcome is the most important thing. If you are see, seeing, repeat, if the guest is leaving, being able to say that they feel better than when they arrived. That is measurable because you're seeing that loyalty. You're seeing those return visits, you're seeing it in the reviews and the comments and all of that. So those are just a couple of examples of how you can really kind of approach it very holistically.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's super helpful, Eric. And I think, because I. I'm trying to understand how to measure this. And, and I love the notion of the guest room being the most important wellness room. And you mentioned a bunch of metrics or way to assess this. I think kind of combing through all the, you know, survey feedback or online feedback. But is there a specific survey question or other mechanism where can be more pointed? A lot of the surveys or guest feedback mechanisms I see are more just like, how is your overall stay? And I wonder if there might be an opportunity to drill in, um, because I know almost asleep is so important.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I think how was your overall stay? Is, you know, it couldn't be more general than that. I think you said see elements in review sites, whether it's, you know, in an Airbnb in the luxury villa world, or whether you see it on, you know, TripAdvisor, etc, people are rating the food, they're rating the quality of service, they're rating the overall cleanliness of the property. I think there's absolutely an opportunity to rate the actual rest experience and have people comment on that, because it's oftentimes something that you think about once you leave and you're like, oh, God, it was like the worst night of sleep.

Speaker D: Yeah, I've had those.

Speaker F: So.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we've all had those. And that's actually. There is scientific evidence that your first night sleeping away from home, anywhere you go, is going to suffer because your brain is a little bit in that hypervigilance mode. So the opportunity to submit feedback that's based a little bit more specifically on what your wellness experience was, and not only that, but like, what your overnight experience was, I think indicates immediately that there's an opportunity for the guests to contribute here and to. To share what their experience was.

Speaker B: I love that. Jen, I'd love to go to you. And you said something at the beginning of our conversation that caught my attention around. It was the combination, I think, for you, of Sana and NA offerings. And I wonder if you could just share a little bit more about that experience, because I'm always interested in how do you bring different components together to create this really special, remarkable experience. It sounds like you personally have experienced that what does that look and feel like for a guest and maybe what does that look like for you as you've experienced and engaged in some of these environments?

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. I want to touch first on Erica's comments because sauna pairs so well with a good night's rest. So if you are giving guests the cues that, hey, Jen is guiding in the sauna, she's going to do a meditative practice. It's starting at 8:00pm um, go do your sauna, be in community, do breath work, meditation, and maybe I challenge them to not turn their phone on when they go back to their room. And that all contributes to setting them up for a great night of sleep. So I just, I'm seeing a lot of connections there. And then the NA experience really pairs with the sauna piece of it directly. Because I also have noticed, like, if we're talking individual traveling, individual traveler coming in versus, like, you're hosting an event and everyone that's at the event is staying on the property that has a different energy. But what I find with sauna is if you are a solo traveler, the people that come into that sauna space, if you have a program time and, um, someone like me guiding people through that connection could be the only touch point for that guest to have a social interaction that feels healthy. And I love that. And I've witnessed that locally at the Huing Hotel, downtown Minneapolis. They just pair so well together and being able to serve an elevated NA beverage and, you know, alcohol just isn't a disconnect for a sauna experience anyway. So once you amp up your wellness program offerings, whether it's yoga, whatever it is, sauna, uh, the NA just goes right along with that. So it's a really nice way to pair that in your mission for your hospitality experience.

Speaker E: I have to say, you know, it's too. Ginger said made me laugh a little bit because some of these gorgeous wellness hotels I've even been to, I see, go to the spa. I'm that person. I take out the cold plunge. I sit in the sauna. I love a good jacuzzi. I don't really love a good cold plunge. That's just personal work. Um, the cold in my body just don't seem to go well together. But again, everyone's their own individual. So I, you know, but I go, I do all of that. And then to Jen's point, you know, again, Jen got me really thinking. And then I go downstairs, there's a beautiful restaurant bar. And right. Like, the bar is pushing all these. They look like Delicious cocktails. But this doesn't make sense sense at that point now it's 8:30 at night. I've maybe I've just done a wind down and is that the next thing I want to do is is throw a cocktail in my body. Like it just feels wrong. And especially when the hotel is sort of really marketing and pushing themselves as sort of this wellness destination. And it circles back to what Erica said before. Wellness has become this term that people are slapping on everything and my whole thing is what does that mean? Right? What does that mean? What does it mean to you? We always talk about how to drive revenue but to me like I think the hotels are doing that because they feel like well we want to make more money so we're still going to have this program but well what if that program was different? And so I'm challenging hoteliers like when I'm with you Josiah to think differently. Like yeah, I'm not m saying close down the bar but when I leave from that sauna experience and I head up maybe there's this great, you know we talk about any but like I love tea. Like I love a good night tea. Like how are you going to help me calm continue the wind down process and not you know, kind of amp it back up? It doesn't make sense.

Speaker B: So good. So good. Before we go I would love to go around the room and I'll start with you Jen to go to you Erica and then Emily you can bring us home with some closing thoughts but advice for our listeners, something to think about, a challenge for them A ah resource Jen, I'll link in the show notes to your TEDx talk and any other resources you'd like but any closing thoughts or challenges for hospitality leaders listening?

Speaker D: Yeah, what I am seeing is that the guests are coming now to hospitality experiences with X expectations of non alcoholic offerings. So it's not even being driven by a brand necessarily. It is your audience and this is what they want. So being able to embrace that and recognize that and if you don't have the insight or information yourself like looking to your team who on your team can sort of support what might be your way into creating that NA experience and it goes you know, across the board and as part of the language as well.

Speaker B: So yeah, love it Erica, I think

Speaker C: I would suggest that leaning into the the amenities that feel correct and on brand is a very powerful tool but at the end of the day you can't outspa a bad night of sleep and so if this is something that is important to you if you're already doing it, then you should be getting credit for it and finding a way to amplify the little touches and the steps that you're taking to ensure a restful night. And if you're not already doing it, then there are resources out there that are not a huge lift, you know, investment, but then can pay dividends in the long run. So it's really just a matter of zooming out and understanding that the guest experience doesn't stop at bedtime.

Speaker B: So true. Emily, I am so glad we had this conversation. I feel like we covered so much here. Uh, what. What's on your mind? As we kind of wrap here and we've talked about different elements of what this could look like.

Speaker E: I think out of this whole conversation, I will say personally, my favorite was actually Erica, when you did say, like, the most important wellness amenity is, like, is the room.

Speaker D: Right?

Speaker E: And I really strongly. Again, this is not a data point, Josiah. I really strongly believe that the amount of incredible hotels I've been to, where the lobby space is incredible, the pool, the spa, and then the room almost sometimes feels like this afterthought. Well, that's. Even if I don't spend a lot of time in the room, I'm not somebody who hangs out in the room all day. I think one of the most important elements of why we chose that hotel is the room, because I need to get sleep. This seems like such a counterintuitive thing, but, like, we have to get back to the bare bones of, you're gonna be a wellness hotel or you're gonna market yourself as a wellness hotel. That night of sleep has gotta be spot on. Otherwise, it's sort of like, what are we doing? So, again, I think my goal, even in bringing everybody together today, was to get these hoteliers to think a little bit differently, because I enjoy talking about adding amenities and adding spa and so forth and so on. But, like, let's get down to the basics of what we are. These are. We're hotels and the restaurants that have F and B programs. And so what are things that, you know, you already have, uh, maybe have a restaurant and a bar. Okay. So let's consider how any options can lift revenue. You already have a sleeping room, I hope, because you're. If you're a hotel, like, what's happening in that sleeping room to promote this. This wellness? So that's, you know, again, uh, that's kind of was my thought and bringing us all together today. And I hope, you know, the listeners kind of got. Okay, it's not always about just adding and, and spa. It's about going back to what Erica said, like, how's my night of sleep in the room that you have?

Speaker B: For sure, for sure. Well, I'll include a bunch of links to each of your LinkedIn profiles and businesses and websites and some resources in the show. Notes Encourage people to reach out and have a conversation. I know I had pages of things I wanted to dive into. We didn't get to. We might have to do a, uh, part two and three at some point. There's so many different elements of this, but I think this is hopefully will serve as a thought starter and continue the conversation, continue to dig into this. There's so much opportunity here. Thank you all for a great conversation today and I, I encourage everyone to check out the work that you're doing. It's incredibly valuable. So thank you all.

Speaker E: Thanks Josiah.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thanks Josiah.

Speaker F: Uh,

Speaker A: If you enjoyed today's conversation, I just have one favor to ask, and that is to take out your phone now and text or email this episode to someone you work with or an industry friend and tell them what stood out to you. The reason I produce this show is to help you and your business, and it takes teamwork to do that. So I encourage you to move this beyond just being an idea, something you listen to, to sharing it with your team so that you can implement it in your hospitality business. And the ideas we heard today drive actual results and improvements for you. I'd also love to hear what you thought about the episode today. You can email me. Josiahospitalitydaily.com Hospitality Daily has become the number one podcast in hospitality, thanks to you and the tens of thousands of hospitality providers around the world that join us each day to learn and grow together. So thank you for joining us and if you have something to teach or share with our community, I'd love to hear from you as well. So please email me or send me a message on LinkedIn and let's talk a few more things before we go. First, if you haven't done so already, subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite app to stay inspired each day by actionable insights from the most interesting people in hospitality. If you'd like to listen to more conversations like the one that you just heard, visit this podcast website@podcast.hospitalitydaily.com I spent a lot of time building out this website because I want to make it really easy for you to listen to the topics and guests that you are interested in, whether that's culture and leadership or operations or technology or something else. You can browse and search the entire library of more than 650 episodes from some of the top leaders and innovators in hospitality@podcast.hospitalitydaily.com and get ideas for delighting the people around you in reaching your business and career goals. And finally, if you prefer to read a recap of these ideas each day, I'd be happy to send you my top takeaways by email. You can subscribe@hospitalitydaily.com thanks for listening and I'll see you here again tomorrow.

Speaker D: Sam.