Building Companies, Running for Governor, and Playing the Long Game | Hugh Lytle

Speaker A: Welcome back, Growth House family, to another episode of the Growth House podcast. Today we have a very, very special guest, Mr. Hugh Lytle. And I want to start this podcast off with a question, and then we're going to take a step back. So Hugh, first of all, thank you for being on the show. I want to start here. You've built amazing companies, you have a great family life. You've impacted a lot of people through your business. What led you to public service? What were you searching for? What were you looking to accomplish?

Speaker B: You know, it was, uh, it was not. I was not looking for it. Uh, that was probably the, maybe the most important thing. Um, a life of service, uh, in my profession, a life of purpose in my profession led to people coming to me and saying, hey, um, we know you're an independent, uh, by public records. Um, we actually have a party and we'd like you to run for our next governor. Um, and I was taken back a minute and uh, uh, had to think that through a second. And um, you know, my immediate response wasn't, yes, it was, um, let me think about it. There's a lot to think about in today's politics. Not to mention, you know, I've been an entrepreneur and focused on my business. I had not been looking at every single issue going on. And so let me see where we're at. And you know, after all that, it really came down to the same reason I'm an entrepreneur. M. It's not about political office for me, not about ego at all. I see my name in lights more than I ever need to. Uh, this stage in my life. It's about a call to service for real. So I can take my leadership to another platform. And that platform's bigger and broader, can impact more people directly, uh, than, uh, I would run another company.

Speaker A: I love it. And we'll dive into more political things and we're looking to accomplish. But what I want to do is take a step back. Hugh, what was the background you mentioned as an entrepreneur, as a business owner? Before we started the podcast, we just started kind of going back and forth. You mentioned, man, the lonely journey of entrepreneur, the value of community, the value of actually having non negotiables. So take us back. Like, what was that first business that you started?

Speaker B: So, you know, just go back just a little bit further and just. My, uh, I grew up in a household, ah, single father, uh, raised m. Me and my brother, um, first educated, uh, out of his family in Greenville, Texas. Had me when he was 18 years old. My mom was 17 uh, moved, uh, to Indiana, um, and became a 33 year old CIO, Chief Information Officer of a Blue Cross Blue Shield of Indiana plan. So it was a very smart guy, very motivated, ambitious, um, but he then turned around and created over the next 10, 15 years, um, the third largest health plan in the country called Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield. He acquired other blue plans. They're not called Elevance Health. But I grew up in a family where there was nothing you couldn't do, you know, mentally. I mean, my father was, he knew I was entrepreneurial from the day I was born. I mean, he's like, you know, I kept coming to him with little businesses in high school and saying, he's like, you're, you know, I was a football player. He's like, you don't have time and you don't have. He goes, you have no experience. This is not a winner. And I'm going, no, no. And so, um, but anyways, he helped guide me early. He said, you know, he got me into sales. He said, you know, you're going to need to know sales. And I'm like, I know how to sell because no, you don't know professional sales. So, so I worked for Xerox. It was Xerox and IBM back in those days. And so I worked for Xerox to get kind of official sales training, which I still use.

Speaker A: That was, that was my first sales job as well. Xerox. So was it real shout out to selling Crop ears?

Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah, spin selling, you know, um, but that, that is something I still use to this day. You know, I, I'm so glad. So I think being organized, being, being having a family, that helped me move along that path. Right. Um, and then I finally decided to break down and go into the old man's business, which was healthcare. I didn't think I would enjoy it, but it is a chess game that never ends. It's heavily strategic and it's incredibly entrepreneurial. Um, there's so many areas to fix. Uh, and it's massive as you know, uh, $4.4 trillion. So, um, so anyways, long answer to your question is it was, uh, uh, the early days of entrepreneurship was pure ambition. I always tell like my kids and their friends, like, you can't fake ambition. Like you have that or you don't. If you don't have ambition, don't be an entrepreneur. There's a million other things you can do, but you got to have that burning desire to want to achieve and to want to do something new. Um, and then my general wiring is I'm a rebel by heart. Like I just don't like, I don't like status quo. I get upset, I root for the underdog on everything. I just don't enjoy, enjoy bad, uh, rules, basics, you know, bureaucratic approaches to things. And so it's unsettling. Um, but, but I can be in a corporate. You have to be able to be a play. You gotta, you gotta have the emotional maturity to work through those things. You don't come in being a malcontent because you think you're entrepreneurial. You need to be learning, you know. And so I had a great mentor, my father, that helped me get this started. And then that led to uh, uh, years Jesse, of me coming to him, learning healthcare, taking multiple jobs in a big what's called pharmacy benefit manager where I learned rebates, I went to the part, I learned outcomes, I learned physician network, I learned all the different things you need to learn in healthcare. My last job there was M and A. I was able to work my way in M and A, which then I learned capital markets, I learned private equity. And he came from a mutual business so he really didn't understand that that well. So when we were, we knew he was going to retire if he took Anthem public and then we were going to do something together because he's only 18 years my senior, he was still a young man in his 50s. Uh, and that became okay, if we're going to do this, we're going to do it the way we want to do it. So we're going to set out and say, okay, we want to have thesis driven approach. We want to do something that creates social good. We want something that focuses not on a single trend, but on a convergence of trends. Uh, and that has systemic change in healthcare, which is not a widget. There's a lot of widgety vertical programs in healthcare. We want to create transformative stuff. So first ever prevention and wellness platform at scale, first ever integrated home care that kept mom and dad out of institutions. And then ultimately I went on to create Equality Health from a peer startup which was uh, more of the same, which was more population, ah, focused, helping diverse and underserved communities achieve, achieve higher quality care. Um, but each of those um, came from this genesis as an entrepreneur of knowing what we wanted to go do. Um, uh, I had the benefit of working with institutional capital early, which is you know, a rough way to go too. Um, but that's, that's what really got us going. And um, but but my general nature is entrepreneurial, which is what led to governor. So, um, yeah, know, ultimately, um, they all tie together. Your DNA is your DNA as an entrepreneur.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Talk to me. Because you mentioned your dad was only 18 years older than you. What was that, you know, relationship like growing up and then also doing business together? That's something that's very interesting in the entrepreneurial world or founder world, where they're like, hey, I don't want to do any business with my family, or some people are very against it. Let's talk through that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, I can appreciate, and I would think if I'm an entrepreneur in general, that's probably not a good thing to do. Uh, you know, if you, if you can avoid it. But if you do have unique situations, it, uh, can work. We fought, as most father sons do, 18 to 24, you know, as you're trying to find. Define yourself as a, As a young man. Um, but, you know, ultimately it came down to when we worked together, we said we had some rules, hard and fast rules, like we do not talk business around the family. When we're together as a family, dinner table, vacations, whatever. If we are going to talk something, we go off and go away. And we do it not for everybody's, uh, public consumption, because it's not a. It's not an attractive thing. It's how people get riled up. Uh, so things start to go wrong. So. And I just got lucky in that 98% of the time, we saw things eye to eye. Um, but, you know, no different than a father and son. There were things I'd see that go, ooh, I don't like. I don't know if I want to emulate that. And I'm sure there are things where he was probably like, oh, wow, my son's embarrassing me. Like, I wish he'd shut up. You know, I'm sure those things were just never said, but, um, you know, it was a very rare and special thing. But I would say for any entrepreneurs listening, really, really take stock in who that partner would be. Um, uh, uh, because it can be. It. It can get intense, as you would expect.

Speaker A: Yeah. What are some red flags that you would look for in. In partnerships? I mean, obviously now you're running for governor, that's. There's a lot of partners involved, and you're picking your team. You know, Erica is someone that connected us, which is amazing. Human being, person. How do you look for the right people? What are the. The red and green flags? You know, you can Say on finding the right partners to surround yourself with.

Speaker B: Well, it's funny, one of the things my father said is because I don't trust myself, I trust you on picking people. I do have a gift, uh, that is a gift. Every entrepreneur has different ones and I know how to sniff talent. I know how to find people that maybe are doing one thing but I think have potential to do a lot more. And uh, I've been very fortunate in that, in that, in that effort. Um, you know the probably the, you know the probably the, the. The most important thing um, is uh, in establishing any business or kind of um, what you're, you're going to iterate teams, you know, if you're going to scale. Right? So I think that's probably the most important thing is it's easy to say now. When I was a younger man, I had a tendency to want to hang on too long to people because I came from football, I was a quarterback, I was only as good as my weakest player. So we had to make sure the weakest player was up to speed. But in business it can cut, it can eat time and it can, it can hurt you. And so that was a harder lesson for me to learn earlier but I understand it now and generally, you know, I really do believe the argument that you are allowing them to go on and find what's really works for them, you know, uh, as well. It's a two way street. Um, but I think that team iteration is one of the most heart wrenching but also one of the most uh, valuable ones. So no different than my campaign. We started with a team. I'm iterating my team today, um, to be able to move to this next level um, as the business and in this case the campaign get more mature and you have a little clearer picture of what that strategy looks like. So you know I do think maybe one of the most important, I mean it's, it's been said many times it's not, that's new but um, you know the old entrepreneurial, I love the Elon Musk, you know, chewing on glass and staring into the abyss, you know, kind of concept. Great, it's a great quote. But it's uh, you know it does come down to who do you surround yourself with. And I've been fortunate to work with some truly amazing talents and you know, I think a good leader, every entrepreneur is different. But I'm the entrepreneur that says um, let me drive the vision, let me drive the uh, engagement on our first clients and our first set and then you take it, you know, um, and. And let me go out and be working on year one and two out in front of us, um, because there's people. Some entrepreneurs have a hard time letting go of that. And I think it's, uh, role clarity I see is usually broken. And a lot of times in these. Early. These early. In these companies, the lanes are not clear. Um, and all that does is lead to a collision at some point. It just saves time to reduce that. So hopefully that's what you're looking for in that. But that's, uh, how I think about it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Hugh, I'm curious. When you were, you know, 30 years old, what does success mean to you versus, you know, what does success look like to you now?

Speaker B: Two different things, you know, you're exactly right. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. It's about the money. You know, I was like, I want money. I, um, want to be successful. And, uh, uh, you know, and it. It overruled my. My thinking. It was. It was. It was a. It was a huge component. And that's where I made early mistakes, was trying to. That's, um. For any entrepreneur that's dealing with that, like, what. What do I want to. Can I expect that I'm going to be where I want to be someday? Like, you know, I have the vision and I say, like, I'm amazed with what people can do, honestly, like, what? I mean, just like your story you told me, Jesse, about you coming out from Portland, I mean, look what you've done in such a short amount of time, okay? That ability to build community is such a rare skill set, uh, and it can matriculate into 20 other things, you know, so I think that the ambition is there, the core common desire or something. Pick a path. Um, I always do try to coach people, young people, on. Pick a path that is, uh, upwardly mobile, I guess. So, you know, look at industry subsets. You know, if you're. If you're in green energy, great. If you're in coal burning, maybe not the place to go. Uh, so you need to be thinking about that. But outside of that, um, there's lots of opportunities for success. And, um, you know, I think that's probably the most important thing is, um, really, uh, just trying to navigate that and trying to say, okay. Early success for me anyways, was I didn't think I had any skills other than, you know, maybe I could sell. Um, but I didn't realize how good I was at finance until my back was against the wall with private equity. Who are mathematicians, m. Financial engineers at the highest order. And it used to intimidate the hell out of me until it did. Until I realized, wait a minute, I'm the one that can put the rationale behind the numbers and um, really own the bigger sphere and the bigger influence of it. And so, uh, then finance became really easy and so, you know, in capital, capital markets. So I think it's really just, uh, you know, you got to bet on yourself. You got to believe that you have the ability to expand. Um, and for me that was uh, everything I take on. Even governorship is no fear. You know, um, believe in your. If you truly believe in yourself and know what you're capable of doing. Um, and in my case, I can reverse engineer anything. Give me. I can be president United States and reverse engineer how to get there.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: that's a key ingredient to building, I think, scalable businesses that have longevity to them.

Speaker A: I love that. What is. We kind of talked a little bit about that early stage. What does success truly mean now, especially as you're running for governor.

Speaker B: Yeah, sorry, second piece. So success, uh, to me now means, um, you know, fulfilling my purpose driven life. I mean it is really at this stage in life. You know. One thing I do realize you hear this all the time is that, you know, you can't like people say I failed retirement or whatever. You know, I did try to take time off for a few months and you know, just did not.

Speaker A: You don't seem like the retirement play golf all day.

Speaker B: No. So I was um, I was uh, working on, you know, and still working on a fourth business, um, in case I didn't don't win the election. But um, but, you know, and maybe the. Could be the swan song of them all, but this is the kind of thing, you know, with experience comes, you know, I know how to stand them up. I know how to, you know, I know how to build them to what private equity would want to be able to acquire. You know, I think there's so much in building it the right way, um, so that as an entrepreneur you don't lose all that value. Uh, you know, a time of exit, so, or liquidity. So those, those kind of things I think are important. But to me success is like truly saying, okay, I left it all on the field. Um, I did everything in service to my fellow, uh, citizens that I could to improve and patients to improve their lives. Um, and then to be able to provide service to the state of Arizona to move us into the next 30 years. And that's what I Tell people in governorship. Our governors that we're talking about today are talking about small ball politics, about small moves in the legislatures versus where do we want to be in 30 years and what changes do we need to make for that? To make sure that this state is, you know, which it can be a global economic power. Um, uh, right here in the Valley. So

Speaker A: I uh, love that and you mentioned like doing business the right way. And I think, you know, one of our core values with Growth House is playing the long game, like not being transactional. Right. Giving value, being a go giver mindset. Give value first before ever looking to receive. Is there any examples of where like patience and you playing the long game has really, you know, benefited you in the long run?

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think probably maybe the core example of that is Equality Health, the company that I just built. Um, I built two businesses prior to that and you know, there was a PE exit tied to it. So we built Thesis, we acquired, you know, multiple companies, LBO format, two, uh, you know, build it, create margin, create, you know, return and scale and exit. And so that became a very unfulfilling life to me. Um, they, it was, um, you made a lot of money. But um, I had orphaned beliefs, you know, the feeling of a founder, you know, uh, believe these. I still have products out there today that are, you know, were founded by us. So um, that part was not set with equality. I said, you know, this is something that can be a new Medicaid model for the entire country, um, which is, you know, 75 million people, uh, on that program, largest government program we have in Medicaid. So um, very thoughtful, more paced as you said, more, more thinking about scalability, um, more thinking about unit economics, more thinking about kind of focus, factory mindsets, state to state. One of the hardest things to do in health care is to move a model state to state to state state because they all, ah, especially Medicaid. They're all so different and they have different mixes of patients.

Speaker A: Uh, dude, that sounds like a headache working in the healthcare space.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but, but it's, I love it. I mean it's the kind of headache I love. So you know, um, uh, it's like mass customization. But at the end of the day I am taking people who have crappy care and poor quality and I'm improving it so that they're, you know, some of these underserved communities are getting uh, screenings done, preventive things done. They're not using the emergency room as primary care. Things that are beneficial to the system and most importantly to the patients, doing in a culturally relevant manner. So that um, so that's what feels good about it, you know, and that's why I know long game, our country's diverse, is going to be more diverse. So um, the goal is we've got to have and clinicians are getting older and majority of the Caucasian clinicians do not have this cultural component. So the gap is wide and it's growing. So to reduce health disparities you have to make these transitions. And so um, states and other groups are starting to follow on and get along on it. And it's under a new payment model, I won't bore you with that, but there's a whole different approach to it. And we were able to save 7% on a Medicaid budget over a five year period. That's lots hundreds of millions of dollars to the state and that's only managing 20, 25% of the Medicaid access program in Arizona. So you can imagine if you took that in totality, it's a way for us to control cost, improve quality and do it in a culturally relevant way. And I think it's um, got long term sustainability to it if I'm involved, not involved, and I'm not involved anymore. So I'm a board member but I'm not executive chair like I was last year.

Speaker A: It seems like you like tackling difficult, complex problems based off of your background and now, you know, entering the political world. Um, I want to dive a little bit into politics. But a question that I think comes up a lot, um, it's how do you, you know, work, life, balance, we all have, you know, perspectives on that. I personally believe it doesn't really exist if you want to do something exceptional. But I think there's seasons of life where you're focusing on some things. I love your perspective on that. But one of the questions I would like to ask you especially you've been married, I believe 27 years, you built multiple companies. How do you juggle having amazing relationship with those that matter the most to you, building the companies and doing something, you know, exceptional and great? What was your secret sauce or how did you do that?

Speaker B: You know, um, first I would tell any entrepreneurs listening, don't beat yourself up if you're not doing that right now, just find a path to try to get there. Um, because when it's said and done, you're going to want to celebrate, you're going to want those people with you and they don't feel like they're part of that journey. And I've learned that. I mean, my wife in the first business I was, kept her out here, and that was not good. And then now she's engaged in business, knows the executives as part of the, you know, kind of informal team. And I think. I think that's really important. Um, I. I, uh, think that to be successful, it does take a lot of hours. There's no doubt about it. And it does have an impact. I tried to use my impact. Um, what worked for me, I'm saying it works for everybody, will work for me, though, is I did have a relentless support, um, from my family. Um, they knew, like, I'm not going to miss one of my son's football games. That ain't going to happen under any circumstance. So I was there. Um, you know, uh, other things miss, hit and miss at some, not some, but always making the attempt to be there. Uh, and they knew it. Um, if it was super important to the child, I will be there. Um, if my wife says this is one you really should be, I will be there. Um, but as a whole, it's one of the hardest things as an entrepreneur is to juggle both. And I wouldn't say I believe. I think it takes extraordinary effort to. And it's got to matter to you enough. Um, and then you can pull it off. But it's, um. I know entrepreneurs who don't. And I tell them, like, yeah, it's. You got to choose your priorities. Um, and everybody's case is different. In my case, I didn't. It was important to me that I was there for my kids and close to them and. And for my wife. Um, but it's not easy. And being an entrepreneur's wife is not easy. You can imagine. Um, Jesse, when I told my wife, hey, I'm running for governor, is that, you know, cool with that? Uh, that what goes through a wife's mind, from political violence to, you know, uh, loss of privacy and everything else all the way through, uh, than me following that up with. And by the way, I don't want to. I'm still working on this other thesis, you know, and she's like, wait, how does all this coexist? Um, but, uh, you know, I think that's the kind of thing that it takes a special person. So if you are with someone, uh, and you haven't, uh, you know, got to that point, I think you have to really take stock in how flexible are they as a partner, because it's really the spouse that I think that feels it even more than the kids, let's dive in.

Speaker A: I just want to know what that conversation looks like. Like she's a ride or die. To be like, I'll help you do all these company. Wait, now you want us to be in the spotlight? You want everything to be exposed? Can you walk me through that conversation, man?

Speaker B: Oh, Jesse. It was, uh. I took. I took me a couple weeks before I brought it up. I, um, didn't know how to go at it. Um, actually, even my father, like, it's. It's hard to have these kind of discussions because public office has a natural selfishness to it. Um, that it's hard to say, oh, come on. You know, because you're asking someone to become more visible. You know, um, like I said, people can say all the nasty things in the world about me, and I sleep like a baby. Um, you know, being a quarterback, by the way, said walking the stadium, half people don't like me. I'm, um, not playing well. Another half of my. My side didn't like me, and I'm playing really bad. I'm down to family and friends. So I'm used to that kind of assessment, uh, and chatter. But, um, you know, I think in our conversation, you know, I finally brought it up, and I said, look, you know, honey, I, um. This is something that gives me an opportunity for a bigger leadership, uh, role, and I think the state needs it. And I took her through it, and her first question was, well, when did you get so interested in politics?

Speaker A: Fair question.

Speaker B: I'm like, yeah. You know, I go, I've had, you know, highly regulated businesses. I've been working with lobbyists and stuff and working in D.C. for a long time with healthcare. And she's like, oh, that's true. Um, so just because we don't have CNN on the house is because we just are sick of the stuff, and that's why I'm running. I go, everybody is worn out. It's an old model. Um, we need to move on to the future model, which is we don't get defined by parties. And, you know, I go, this is my DNA. I go, who. Who. Who would be someone who would run as an independent barber? That's my wife's name. Barbara's like, oh, yeah, no, I can totally see that. And she's like, well, what do you need from me? You know, which is what she asked on every business. And, um, I gave her what I need, and she was on board. So, you know, it, uh, it still, though we like, like her and I talk about it takes a couple Weeks of saying you're running for governor, or she says, I'm running for governor and not Gigg because it sounds awkward to even say. Um, now we're used to it and it's, it's fine. But uh, yeah, well, Hugh, you mentioned,

Speaker A: you know, you chose the independent, independent route. And our audience, entrepreneurs, but some of us, including myself, I'll put my hand up here, are not very, you know, well versed in the political space. So if there's a way to talk to me as a golden retriever in anything political, let's start there. I just want to clear the air there. So what, what was the main reason that you wanted to not associate with any part and go the independent route?

Speaker B: Well, you know, because I've been a Republican and I've been a Democrat. So, uh, you know, I was Republican most of my life. I came from Indiana. It's as red as state as you can get. And uh, uh, I didn't think there was anything but being a Republican. And so, um, but then, you know, as I got older and I started appreciating how free markets have their way. But also we were becoming such a large country, you know, 350 million people. We government has to play a role, like for example in health care and so forth, where it's just not attainable for certain people. And so, um, I became then a Democrat. It was because they were friendlier to, you know, infrastructure, social needs, things of that nature. Um, and I think that's ultimately. So, you know, being non political man, the reason I end up where I'm at is that I think a lot of people are this way. It's right. Arizona, which you may not realize, the largest group of voters in the electorate is independents. We're bigger than the Republican party or the Democratic Party. 34% of voters, uh, are independent, um, uh, followed by Republican and then Democrat. And so, um, and there's a reason for that. That's how our state thinks. And also it's just become so polarized. Um, but you know, the reason if you were to put me in a category I think a lot of people follow this is I'm a right to center person. I believe in free markets. I believe in limited, uh, government. I believe in, um, you know, strong military, strong border, you know, uh, rule of law. But I also believe in civil rights and equal rights. And why do I have to go left? Why do they exist in two different spheres? Why are the left not like corporations, like, you know, so it's this group in the middle here. That crossed the cut between the two extremes that people are lost in. So they have to hold their nose and say, well, I don't agree with some of this stuff, but I'm gonna go ahead and vote for this person. So it's been a situation where we have to vote for the least stinky alternative and that's, that is not a place to be as a society. Right. So um, traditionally if you were running as an independent in Arizona, you need signatures to get on the ballot. Okay. If you're a Republican, 5,000 signatures. You're Democrats, 5,000 signatures. Uh, if you're an independent, 45,000 signatures. Okay, so wow, that's the difference. Yeah, the system was rigged to basically keep independence out. So that's the middle and more moderate. So you pretty much have to be an extreme uh, to get into office. Which is why we've had extremes running us and creating more and more divide. Well, we uh, I won't take you through the history there, but ultimately there's a party now in Arizona called no labels Arizona or Arizona Independent Party that's under being contested. But that party allowed for me to have 2,000 signature access. So fair ballot access and I got 6,000 of those. So um, we have fair ballot access. So now for the first time in 40 years, you have a viable candidate as an independent. Um, and I think that makes a difference. And then I have a very clean path to victory here in a three way race m by literally just getting virtually one out of two independents. And I'm in really good shape. So um, that's why this became compelling. And hopefully uh, that was an elementary enough state. But that's why the opportunity, like if it were 45,000 signatures, there'd have been no way because it costs a lot to get signatures on top of, of that. So uh, uh, and it costs a lot anyways by the way to run as an independent because I don't have party money, I have to self fund it. So um, yeah, so that's why you,

Speaker A: you mentioned that you feel like you have a clear shot and you have a real, real shot to win. I still feel like being independent is probably viewed as still underdog and I think you like that role. And you said you vote for the underdogs.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So what, how is that gonna happen? Like what, what's that process? Because you know, especially before you even ran, you're like, no one's probably. I don't remember anyone who's won as an independent. Correct me if I'm wrong in Arizona, but what does that uphill battle look like for you?

Speaker B: Yeah. And the reason you don't is because what I just said, 40 years, I don't think. You're probably not 40 yet. Um, but certainly when you were younger, you didn't know that. Um, but, uh, but it's because there's been no candidates. Uh, so people want to go, well, independence never won well, because they never had fair chance to win. Uh, so that's the biggest one. Um, but the, um, you know, it's just no different than building a business. Um, and by the way, I would tell you I would not be able to run for governor had I not done, you know, like, Equality Health. I went from zero to a billion dollars in sales in four years. I mean, that's a major curve, right? Um, from a kitchen table startup. So that kind of. It takes that. And that was after I'd done two other large scale, you know, institutional deals. So it takes that kind of, uh, mindset to be able to lift up a campaign that has no infrastructure. It's not like Republican Party or Democratic Party, like, welcome, and here's the people you can choose from. You don't get a single phone call back when you're an independent because they're like, wait a minute, my bread is buttered by the Republicans or Democrats. I'm not taking on independent. That'll ruin my business. So, um, it is rough, really tough sledding in the early days. And, um, I felt that, you know, going in and, um, knew that was going to be the case. Um, but that's where being an entrepreneur pays a ton of dividends. Because I knew how to stood it up and knew how to find the best people I could for the money. And then I also put an roi. I said, here's how much I'm going to spend on this race. And, um, and I tell people voters should have an roi, too. They should say, my vote is worth something to, uh, and what, what's my minimum threshold? So I set my roi. Um, and then I, um, have been engaged in this process where I got sued three times, um, by the governor, uh, through political operatives, um, because he sees my candidacy as a threat, um, they view me as a spoiler, meaning I'm going to come in and take votes away from Hobbs that will elect Biggs, or if votes away from Biggs that will elect Hobbs, um, because I couldn't win outright on my own. And so what I say to them is, you know, look at how that would be the case if we had 10% of the electorate that was independent, but we have 30% of the year. Right. So uh, oops, that's a really big number. That's a third of the entire electorate that's been left out without a candidate. So I just basically to get the 39% which would win in a three way race, I, um, need roughly 60, 65% of that population and then carry a crossover of 25% on the other side. So the, the potential for me to pick up uh, you know, what I would consider to be a stronghold for me with Latinos, um, and um, uh, uh, the work I've done in that community and then what I would call homeless Republicans. So this is the uh, uh, Reagan conservatives, people that aren't maga, not Trumpian. There is a lot of people in Arizona in that category and their preferred candidate was Karen Taylor Robeson. She has stepped out of the race and that opens up that channel because I'm a right to center guy as well. So if you take those on the crossovers, the Latinos and Reagan conservatives, that's a big number on top of my big number that I can get that I only need a, you know, half of them to come my way. Uh, and then the hardest part inside of that is getting the independence to take action. So that's what we'll be spending all of our time on. It'd be a lot easier just get all the independence. If I can get all the independence, then, you know, we're sailing. So um, so that's, that's the reason. So, so again, I wouldn't have entered this if I didn't think there was math to win. And uh, and, and you know, last thing I want to be is a spoiler.

Speaker A: Well, talk to me if, how much you can. I'm sure there's some secret sauce behind it, but the strategy that uh, you're kind of implementing, I know there's you know, hitting the pavement, right? People going out there, door knocking. We have social media, such a prevalent thing right now. Um, are you leveraging, utilizing that? What are some of the other strategies that someone like you, I'm sure you look at it strategically, almost like starting a business and you know, get mass market adoption, let's say. What, what's your kind of ah, thought behind all that?

Speaker B: Well, Jesse, again, being an entrepreneur in your audience knows this. I mean think about anything you've ever started. When you look back at and you go, oh, um, so we haven't come without our pains. You know, we've been really focused on winning lawsuits. You know, the last one we had to take all the way to the Supreme Court to keep me on the ballot. Um, but you know, uh, the winning formula here is, and where we're at in that process is we've just hired new social media team. We're really kind of coming out with campaign, what I call Campaign 2.0. Um, updating my website to reflect, you know, where I really stand on issues. I've had the opportunity too. I've had, you know, months now to, you know, three, four months to get out and talk to the people around the state. I've traveled the state and I've heard all the issues and they're very consistent. And that's one of the things that I think is really, uh, helpful. No different than a business thesis. You know, you need validation. I'm getting validation that, you know, affordability, uh, relative to our economic. So the economy is huge for us and affordability is top of the list. Uh, from housing through groceries and you know, gas, etc. Um, I want to create a department of entrepreneurship within the state under the economy. So in this case I think the state, because most our Companies are under 100 employees in Arizona, um, state has responsibility to develop our homegrown, um, and that means cutting red tape. That means making this more efficient, uh, uh, to get businesses stood up. Uh, it also means access to capital. It also mean. And support for that, not just holding, you know, events. Um, and that also means helping, uh, our not for profit sector, our social entrepreneurs be successful, uh, mentorship, other things to help them be successful, other methods for creating more sustainable funding. And then I also like the idea if I can get it funded as well because I think these all have a high ROI for the state is, uh, a turnaround specialist. So if companies, a lot of times young entrepreneurs get out over their skis, they need help restructuring, restructuring debt, bringing in talent. So I think the state has a definite responsibility of making that happen. And that's something you would see come out of my administration would be a department of entrepreneurship. The other thing, um, is bring back the Ducey era development, the big game hunting, bringing in more semiconductors, bringing in, um, and ultimately, um, and then education. We need a complete, uh, redesign on our education. So that's another big change I want to bring. Most politicians don't want to touch it because it's a hot potato. Uh, but we are lower quadrant at best in any given category, so we've got to improve. And then health care of course would be the other big one. Um, affordability and access but, but, but let me just, if you mind just to just real quick explain. The vision for the state though is to create the knowledge economy of the future. So you know, my, my, both, neither gubernatorial candidates have a vision for the state. They just want to win. Uh, and uh, if I'm voting for a governor, I want to hear him say, or her say, this is the direction. This is what, this is what we should be building. We should be putting in investments today to pay off, you know, 10 years from now. Uh, and so we can build on this knowledge economy by building on our semiconductor base, right? Um, bringing our advanced manufacturing and defense tech, our autonomous technology, our battery develop. We have um, uh, data centers, uh, responsible data centers with, with quantum computing that's now going to be a component. I want to bring then the AI software businesses here, um, uh, uh, not the anthropics, but all the SaaS providers, all the other big providers of AI software. We want to incentivize them to come. We would then have the entire infrastructure of the next 50 years of technology just like Silicon Valley would have right here. From wafer fabs to uh, software businesses, um, all highway journey, um, all setting us up for success to be a global economic power in the future. Uh, and it's right here in our hands. So that when I talk about if we have four more years of Hobbs with a locked, uh, right now, everything gets vetoed because we have a Republican legislature that sends things up that she won't pass. If we have four more years of that, that's almost eight years, almost a decade of getting nothing done at a time when AI is moving so fast, that's like 50 years in AI time. So I think we have to move forward aggressively. Um, and that's part of this visioning component of being an entrepreneur and being an entrepreneurial governor M. What's the strategy

Speaker A: to attract those type of companies to come? Obviously we have a lot of big semiconductor companies that have already established ground here. But what does that strategy look like?

Speaker B: It's going to take two big pieces that we got to get right. One is power, as you know. So water is uh, got some challenges right now, um, but other renewables and it also takes workforce and workforce is education. So that's why I'm so big on education. We need to align our education to verticalize it into the industries of the future. Okay. We're still working on an industrial stack from years ago and multiple choice tests, three tests and a syllabus and out kind of scenario where we're not getting the workers, not everybody wants college. Some kids want to go to vocation. Vocations are paying tremendous these days. Um, and a great area for entrepreneurship. So there's services, there's military, there's entrepreneurship. There's a whole host of ways that we can build support for education for our kids and a lot of great ideas out there across the state that I would uh, be looking to uh, bring those experts in to solve. Um, in terms of development it would be incentive based. I mean you can't have a higher incentive than to bring a high wage, a high income, high potential software business, uh, to the valley. I mean you look at what the silicon slopes did in Utah, uh, with their ability to bring in tech. It really takes a concerted effort that's led by, by the state, uh, to create a business friendly community for them. And um, I would be working with legislature to get that done.

Speaker A: What do you think about. I'm a little bit plugged into the tech world a little bit. But from my understanding we have a lot of great tech talent or just talent in general from ASU and U of A that end up leaving the state because they feel like they can't get funded here. There's not capital or no one's investing. What's your like walk me through your thoughts on that.

Speaker B: You know it's one of the most frustrating things. One I think probably the number one thing I see in Arizona is a, it's what I call, it's really governance structure. So we are, we are over structured. We have too many groups buying. I even see it in entrepreneurship now. I mean there's a thousand entrepreneurial groups. You know, some are for profit, some aren't. You know there are um, we need to consolidate into um, more efficient ways of uh, like take education, same thing, take workforce, same thing. Too many groups, um, let's get some aligned ideology and ideology and try to um, verticalize that work so that we're not duplicating efforts and creating this fragmented system that we have. So that's what I see is just in tons of fragmentation. Amazing um, talent and like you said, if I can't get a job here, if I can't attract a company here, then I'm going where that company is. Right. And so we're losing in our education system right now our attainment rate. We're trying to get up to 60% plus kids aren't finishing school or if they do um, you know it's a small amount and they're not entering high wage jobs. So we're basically manufacturing the workers of the future, not the executives of the future. And we're importing of the future. Right. So we have to change that dynamic. And like you said I have seen amazing talent. I also feel like we have a um, this is just my opinion because I work generally with New York growth equity, you know, private equity world. But um, we uh, have ah what I would call. It's the right term. It is underdeveloped. Um and I'm sure your entrepreneurs would agree um compared to most states and um, you know their ability to uh, either house venture, um, you know private equity uh type groups or family offices and other you know uh groups, financing groups um were under. We're underwhelming there and I think at the end of the day that creates uh a lot of the same forums and a lot of the companies probably shop these different venture groups and end up not finding and then end up getting a deal done and you know, California or you know New York or something. So um, yeah that's that part to me needs. I think the state can start to create through this department of entrepreneurship high level forums where there's some teeth in it and we can as a state say we got a balance sheet. You should be looking at investment here. And if you're going to make an investment here I'd love to build a fund for the state um and be able to say maybe it's a public private dynamic where we can co invest. Um, I know there's tricky things with that um historically and there's ways to work with it um but uh, those kind of ideas um how does the state become use its assets to attract better capital access for our entrepreneurs so they don't leave the state 100%.

Speaker A: And Hugh, from my understanding you came from Texas. When did you move to Arizona? What year?

Speaker B: I was, you know I was 8 years old I think when I moved to uh, Indiana and then uh Indiana M came out here 30 years ago. Yeah, got it.

Speaker A: I mean you basically you're a native but a lot of people are. Right. So I came from Portland, Oregon and I think that's one of the things I love about Arizona. It is a you know, mixing pot of so many different people who come here. Obviously the weather's great, a little rough, maybe July and August, but amazing weather, right? Amazing. You know, just opportunities. Um, just the people here I think are really. And I think that's part of the reason why they're like open is because it is a transient community. So there's people from Chicago Northwest. It's. It's incredible melting pot of, ah, different people who want to do stuff together. And that's what I was really drawn to. So you being here way longer than I have, and you've seen the changes, you've seen the growth. Um. What. Why is Arizona, to you, such a special place to build companies, but then also for your family and raise a family?

Speaker B: Well, just. It's so funny you said that, because I was last night literally saying that at dinner. That, um, it was, uh. It is one of the unusual places where it's so easy to meet people because everybody's from somewhere else. And it's like you can be standing at a circle K and strike up a friendship, you know, um, and you can't do that. You kind of. They're more cliquish, you know, in the Midwest and other places. So, um, really powerful that way. But we've. It's so fragmented. We're missing. It's like we need to bundle some of these groups into layers that we can engage more.

Speaker A: We're close.

Speaker B: I think it's part of being a young state overall. We're not that old, really. Um, and so that's a big part. What's not to love about Arizona? Um, you know, coming from Indiana, a lot of Midwesterners, I think it's the number of sunny days, relative number of gray days, um, attracts you. And, uh, I always joke, I was an athlete, you know, uh, and I went back to Indiana after Arizona. I started getting Arizona Highways magazine. Like, looking at foliage. I mean, people are like, dude, what's on your desk? I'm like, you know, I just, uh, I just love that place, man. It gets in your system. You know, it's the open skies, it's the ability to do 10 different things to. You can count on it being sunny and not have to work around rain and all those issues, right? So, you know, there's all these wonderful natural environments that pull us here. I think the dynamism of the people. That's why I don't understand how we can be behind an education, how we can not be, like, full force ahead on this knowledge economy, how we can not be doing things that are based on our independent roots. I mean, if you look at McCain and everybody. I mean, the leadership we've. Babbitt. Over the years, the leadership we've had does things different. We think differently. It's a powerful thing to have, um, entrepreneurs. You have to fight to live in the state. When I was an entrepreneur, um, and I had those businesses the first two businesses, I had most of my business elsewhere in other states. I was the largest home care provider in the state of Florida, for example. And I took a flight 36 times one year to Florida and back. Um, but it was worth it to me to have 25 employees in a, ah, local Scottsdale office and be headquartered here because I was not going to leave. And I have had every private equity firm go, no, no, no, I mean you're going to headquarter out there. I'm like, no, I'm headquartered in Arizona. So you, I know you have to fight to stay, uh, you know, to stay uh, in this state. And I want to make that easier at the state. And again, I bet you if you tapped within this people, even watching this podcast, the number of people that run companies that have bought companies or are building companies that have some employees here and some employees elsewhere, it's probably significant. It's the world we live in today. And I would tell you, keep holding these companies here. You know, relief is on the way. Um, we're going to create a really powerful, um, entrepreneurial, uh, economy here, um, with resources and connection points. The stuff you're doing already, you know, the community building, the ability to build trust, to uh, be able to share and collaborate with other like minded, you know, fishermen, right? Fisherman season fishermen, uh, that is incredibly powerful and I want to see more of that in the state, but that's why I've been able to do it. But I have a commitment here because, uh, not just that I built my family here and everything just because, um, there's been so much fighting I've had to do to maintain a presence in uh, a place that was less convenient but worth it.

Speaker A: I love that. And uh, this makes you feel any better, Hugh, about like about a year ago, as we're growing and scaling our community, right, we have a lot of business leaders, execs, founders, um, and they were kind of saying, hey, we should also expand to other states and maybe even move maybe Miami. You know, you see all these things pop up and maybe there's trends or maybe there's a real ecosystem there, but I talked to the closest people to us and we said, no, we're planning our flag here in Arizona. Sure, we'll have other groups and hubs in different cities, but everyone's coming to Arizona. They got to come to Scottsdale, they got to come to Phoenix, everyone. Let's bring them to our amazing city. And why this will always. I travel a lot, but Arizona I think will always be home base for me, absolutely love it here. Just off of the things that we just talked about for the last, you know, three or four minutes, Jesse, thank

Speaker B: you for doing that and thank you for your commitment to the state, because that is exactly what we need. And like I said, I just want to lean in and make sure that the state's doing its part. We are going, hey, we have a true partner and our state government and helping us bring, retain, and grow businesses here.

Speaker A: Love it. As we wrap up, Hugh, I always ask this growth house our community. We have very strict core values that we want everyone to live by. Go giver mentality. Give more than you ever take. No egos. Lead with humility, being transparently authentic to who you are. And one of those things that we ask every guest on our podcast is what's something that we can help support you with? So whether, you know, right, left, middle, independent, it doesn't matter. But how can we best support Hugh in the mission that you have to serve entrepreneurs, business owners, and big bring just amazing things to Arizona.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you for, uh, that offer. Um, so first thing I would tell you is at least give me a look. Okay. If you're listening to this podcast, go to my website. It'll be updated in another couple weeks at the most. Um, but, you know, give me a look. Uh, understand that this is done. My call to service on this is exactly what Jesse just said. It is not, uh, breached in ego. It is not breached in anything other than I think I can do a better job. Um, and let's put one of us in there. You know, let's put a. Let's put a business person, let's put an entrepreneur, let's put a CEO in there and see what we could get done. Um, some of these shenanigans would, Would end. You know, you would. Wouldn't allow them in your company. Um, and I certainly wouldn't allow them in government. Uh, but, um, so I think just giving me a look would be great. And, you know, if you happen to like what I am as an independent, um, uh, go to my social media sites, uh, at Hugh for governor. Um, and there's a way for you to participate in the primary. Um, I have a small primary. It would be great to have you participate in that just to get me some more votes. Uh, and then in the general election, you know, just stand. Stand along alongside me. If you can contribute anything financially, that would be huge. Um, every dollar matters. Doesn't matter how much would, uh, be great. Uh, and then I would say entrepreneurially, um, you know, keep this is sincere. It sounds political. That's the problem being a politician all of a sudden. Um, but it truly is keeping burning. I've been through so much of what you've been through, uh, or going through and keep pushing forward, um, even when you're to your last gasp of like, it's not going to work. I just think I'm going to have to full tense go one more day if you can. Um, so much comes from that passion.

Speaker A: It's an honor and a, uh, privilege, and, uh, I really appreciate you.