Where Does Mid-Level Giving Fit? Building Donor Relationships Between Acquisition and Major Gifts

Speaker A: Welcome to the Go Beyond Fundraising podcast brought to you by Allegiance Group plus Pursuant. We are a passionate team of strategists, practitioners, and technologists who believe in the power of nonprofits to create positive change. Each episode, we host insightful conversations, practical tips, and inspiring stories from experts on our team and change makers around the globe. Together, let's explore how to go beyond traditional fundraising and unlock the full potential of your mission.

Speaker B: I'm, uh, Trent Ricker. I'm the Chief Executive Officer and Chief Strategy Officer at agp, formally Allegiance Group and Pursuant, and I'm joined today by Ryan Carpenter. I'll let Ryan introduce himself a bit. He's the VP of Donor Engagement. But, Ryan, why don't you say hello to everybody and talk about what that role means?

Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks, Trent. Thanks for inviting me today. As the VP of Donor Engagement, I manage high value high touch donor programs for our clients. Things like mid level giving programs, planned giving programs, high value new donor programs. That really allows us to go a little bit deeper, uh, with those engagements with those donors.

Speaker B: It's important to note that, you know, in our legacy for Pursuant, we did quite a lot of early work in Mid Level. It's always been part of our DNA. And I was really happy to have you join. How long you been with AGP now? How many years has it been?

Speaker C: Seven years and two weeks.

Speaker B: Yeah, time flies. Oh, you know, it's the weeks. I like it. So you must have started on there, right? But you and I, when we were talking about it, you know, getting back into to mid level from an important perspective, it's donor engagement. I love that phrase because I think it speaks to the importance of stewardship as well as cultivation and upgrade. You and I have talked a lot, and you've kind of helped me coin the phrase that I've been using an awful lot out there that, that, uh, retention is the new acquisition. And I think as part of that stewardship and donor engagement, High touch is critical. So I'm really glad that you've got the experience that you've gotten from working with lots of clients, other agencies, and now bringing that expertise to AGP that you have over the last several years. So let's kind of start out. I want to kind of hear your perspective on, uh, mid level. Why mid level and why now?

Speaker C: Yeah. So why now? Well, I started my career in building mid level donor programs that went beyond, you know, simple versions of mail and email campaigns. And so I've always had a real strong interest in it. Not just because it's where I'VE started. I was lucky to get started there because it's really this brackish water of vast population of donors and not knowing who you should be spending time with, but knowing they're all valuable. Right. These are people that are giving a large part of their disposable income to your organization. And mid level, why now? Really? Because it supports your annual fund. Right. Mid level is typically 5% of your annual fund, but they give 50% of the revenue year over year. You can set that like clockwork.

Speaker B: Clockwork.

Speaker C: Right. They retain at the highest levels, typically 65 to 70% if you're running a solid program. And so it's going to help m your annual fund, you're going to be able to budget and forecast effectively and make sure that you're going to hit your goals. Conversely, it also helps your major giving program. Right. Um, major gift donors don't stay at major gift donors forever. Right. And so you need to continually replenish those portfolios. And because 2/3 of your major donors start in your annual fund and over half of them at one point or another were recently in your mid level donor program, we really want to focus on identifying who those next major gift owners are. And so really it sits there in the middle supporting both key fundraising programs that most organizations are already running or focusing on.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because if we think about the correlation, which we like to do an awful lot in this podcast series, is where there are loyalty programs that we're used to as consumers and how you're treated, creating loyalty to that brand and becoming a more frequent customer. Right. And in this case, you know, I believe, you know, clearly the most generous country in the world and people have continued to show that generosity, but they also give when and where asked and they also have their own interests that are aligned. Part of what we do is to try to make sure we're marrying those interests to those folks that might have the deepest affinity. But I also find that mid level in and of itself is not necessarily always a sacrificial leap for someone to give that donation. When we started some of these programs back in pursuance early days, some of those mid levels might have been five or six thousand dollars multi year pledges, for instance, for an alma mater or something that effect. So, you know, important, but what you're trying to do is establish a philanthropic priority, coming back to that kind of for profit loyalty. Talk a little bit about the ways that we treat those that we feel like are closest aligned to our mission. So that we can go deeper and get more meaningful gifts and cultivate them through becoming ambassadors of the organization all the way up, hopefully to becoming larger donors and hopefully major donors at some point, if not plan givers.

Speaker C: So often when I start talking about the solutions around mid level that we provide our clients, I have to step back and say it's not all about just raising more mid level donors. These are very important constituents for your organization. They care a lot about your mission and they should be appropriately stewarded and valued really at the end of the day now, are they going to write a check that's going to put a name on a building? No, very likely not. Maybe you'll find a couple here or there that'll uh, eventually graduate to that giving level. But ultimately if somebody's going to take their hard earned money and write a check for $1,000, $2,500, that's meaningful and we can do more than simply sending them back something in the mail that thanks them for it or a gift receipt. They should be honored. And on top of that, also solicit feedback from these individuals because they care a lot about your mission. Not only are they writing 1,000 $5,000 checks, which is a significant amount of most people's disposable income, they've been on your file for a long time. Most mid level donors you'll see they've been on file for over five years or more. In many cases it's over 10 years or more. These are people that deeply care about your organization and they've been incrementally upgrading. And so we should really respect that and appreciate that. And so I always look at it as a win win. One the donor wins because we want to provide our clients mid level donors with an elevated treatment that conveys how much we appre their support and lets them know how important they are for our clients missions to continue and grow. And conversely, that's going to strengthen the relationship, but it's also going to lead to them wanting to support at uh, even more meaningful levels as they can. And now, you know, there's only going to be a small percentage of donors every year from mid level that'll elevate to major giving, let's just say 5%, it's somewhere around there. The other 95%, we want them to continue to support us at those meaningful levels that are really driving your annual fund to continue to hit and exceed your goals. And so it's a little bit of, you know, we want our clients and their fundraising efforts to succeed, but we also want to do so in a respectful way and really honor and appreciate those that make it all possible.

Speaker B: You and I have been in this business for quite some time, and I think mid level has always gotten recognition, but it hasn't always been operationalized. We're going to talk about that in a minute because I want to hear about some of your organizational experiences. But I think to that end, the fact that you pointed out that the top 5% of annual donors in general from our studies account for 50% of annual fund revenue is very meaningful. That 5% is critical for us to cultivate. We want to become a philanthropic priority. And in this day and age, kind of going back to my question of, you know, why mid level and why now, we're seeing, at least statistically, that there are fewer donors that are giving more dollars. I always beat this horse anytime we're on a podcast. I'm not so sure I'd buy that because I don't know that necessarily we're able to track donors the way that we once were because there could be supporters and go fund me or other peer to peer aspects. But nevertheless, we need to cultivate and that's why it's more important than ever now. The why now is that pipeline generation for major donors is critical, and that comes through stewardship and cultivation from annual fund through leadership, annual giving, or mid level into major gifts. We've seen everything from, um. I'm curious as to your take on this, because it depends on the market segment. I've seen anything from, you know, 30% to 2/3 of a file that the major donors originated from the annual fund. So it's not as if someone just comes in as a major donor. It does happen. It's a good byproduct to say here for a moment that based on your market segment, what mid level giving means to a hospital might mean something very different to a ministry or a food bank. We kind of consider mid level. Ryan, why don't you talk about that? It's usually between 1 and 5 or 1 in 10, but some of our hospitals are between 10 and 100. Talk about that framing first of all. And then, uh, will come back to kind of that cultivation into major gifts.

Speaker C: Yeah. Sector certainly plays a part as to what you define your mid level as. That all said, you have a mid level, whatever it may be. And that is a inflection point where you as an organization have to recognize, okay, these are people that are important to our mission. They've been giving consistently and they're going to be our next major donors one day. And oh, by the way, they're also helping to continue to have our annual fund goals hit time and time again. Now that all said, yes, if you are a public media organization or you are a UH university, your mid level is going to be drastically different. And in some of those opposite sides of the spectrum, these are different donors. Certainly if you write a check for $1,000 versus 95,000, there's different potential, there's different expectations. But at the end of the day, mid level is where your annual fund stops and major giving begins. And so for all organizations, whatever that giving level is, that's where you should really take time to understand the opportunity and understand where you should be spending time because you want those people to continue to give at those levels and also identify the next ones that can make even more transformational gift.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's excellent. It's interesting to me that when we work with a lot of organizations on their annual fund, we think about acquisition, retention and upgrade, and stewardship. But of those three buckets where we're talking about actual cultivating of dollars, Acquisition, retention and upgrade, it strikes me that most organizations spend a lot of time on acquisition. Why is that? Because they have some natural churn. And churn isn't necessarily unhealthy at some levels. There's people who give episodically for a variety of reasons, but there are those that are closely aligned with the mission of the organization. We look and we even work with our own clients that the kind of legacy programs that they work in are acquisition and then focusing on retention so as to kind of close the gap. The coverage ratio is your donor file growing and not enough time spent on this upgrade. And I don't love that word upgrade, but let's talk about it in the terms of cultivation. I've used a phrase for a long time, kind of tongue in cheek that most organizations, it represents a donor sombrero. Because the reality is we have a lot on the bottom of that base and then we have a little tip top where it's collapsed down for major giving and we're not doing enough to kind of make that a true pyramid. Talk to us a little bit because you've been in this business of mid level giving for quite some time dating prior to pursuant. But it feels like most organizations are kind of squeezed between acquisition and renewal and major gifts. But mid level kind of gets the leftover attention. They talk a big game, but they don't always walk that big game.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. And ultimately I Don't think it's because they disregard what mid level giving programs can be and how they should be. Um, but ultimately budgets are reality and historically speaking you're going to go lean towards, look, I need to acquire, I need to renew that annual fund. And obviously major giving has long standing strong programs that run and that's where the majority of your individual uh, giving comes annually. Mid level does get squeezed, but what happens is it's an overlooked opportunity. I've been doing this for almost 15 years. Every day you are having these rich conversations and identifying people that want to support you at a much greater level. All they need is to be heard and talk uh, to about it. And if you don't do that, here's the reality of it. If you are going to continue to treat your mid level donors like when they first made that $50 check, eventually they're going to plateau and you're going to lose them because they're giving and their support and their interest for your mission has been growing steadily over the last five, 10 years. And what comes with that is they want to be a greater part of it too. They're telling you that uh, simply by the amount of support they're giving you and if they're not being reciprocated with, it's going to feel like you don't appreciate that and don't value it. And so what's going to happen is they're going to go to another organization that uh, tends to fulfill them because all donors want to be fulfilled. Right?

Speaker B: Right. That's a critical differentiation. I mean one of our taglines is turning missions into movements at agp. And to your point, I think those that are engaged with a mission and that have supported that mission, they want to feel like they're part of a move and part of how we do that is actually having higher touch, which is both a stewardship play and we hope that pays off with loyalty, higher lifetime value and then upgrade as well. I want to pivot on that for a little bit there for a quick second then because I think thinking back to what pursuant did 15 to 20 years ago, we had an offering called Charitable Partners Program and it was primarily for hospitals and higher education to support full time mid level gift officers. We would recruit, hire, train, place, manage, make sure that they're adhering to a certain benchmark of the number of visits. And there were physical visits, they were face to face visits, some phone calls, and then a couple of folks that then were in some level of kind of portfolio management and friendly competition. That became somewhat of an expensive model because again, it's outsourcing, full labor, you have some experience and you've brought to us kind of this concept, Sierra concept that we're evolving here at AGP where it's higher touch, it's both stewardship and upgrade. But talk to me a little bit about that because I still think in this day and age we're going to hit on this. The human touch is more important than ever. Right Ryan?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we have a couple different solutions that we work with your own internal team to help support you and make sure you're speaking to the right people at the right time with the right message. But also we understand, look, nonprofits have to run lean. Your donors want to see that 90, 95 cents on the dollar is going towards program. What mean you have to have a lean team that doesn't maybe allow you to have all the boots on the ground for every program you know you should be doing. And so that's where we help take it on for you, where we're not only going to identify the donors amongst your vast mid level that should be getting that elevated one to one communication and cultivation and stewardship, but we're going to do it for you. Um, we have a team of donor engagement specialists that will actually serve on behalf of your organization to develop and build those relationships. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the conversations that have been had. They're really meaningful. The people that we have executing that and I've had execute that really enjoy their work and the donors really appreciate that and they respond again, win, win. I'm not doing it solely because I want you to give more, but we want you to know that we are aware of you, we appreciate you, and then if the outcome of that is that you want to double your support on any given year, well, that's a great byproduct because you also want to see that mission continue to grow and

Speaker B: exceed, which is great because a lot of organizations will leverage volunteers to do some follow up phone calls. So it's not uncommon, but it does seem like an afterthought. And I think that's part of what we believe in, kind of taking that function and setting it aside. Some folks might be, you, uh, know, it doesn't seem natural for us to kind of outsource that aspect. We want to have those folks engaged in your mission who already have the personal belief in your mission to begin with. That will be excellent ambassadors of your organization and to your point talking and connecting with supporters that we've pre qualified as those that might be able to and um, potentially showing a proclivity to possibly give a larger gift in the mid level range. It's not a hard sell in that but I think it's so important in this day and age. I want to kind of shift because there's a really important data component to this and I want you to share that with the audience. But in this day and age where technology can tell us who to talk to, when to talk to them and perhaps some interest as to what to talk about, I think preparation in this day and age is, I don't want to say easier than ever because that's not a fair thing to say. There's a lot of information to gather but balance that. Talk about our uh, prospect identification. But just as much how whether you're using a concierge with AGP or your internal gift officers can best prepare in this day and age of this kind of AI tech angle versus the augmented human touch.

Speaker C: As an aside, I look back when I first started doing this back in the early teens and we were writing handwritten notes and they were so people would respond to them more than a voicemail because it was tactile. People like to see it. And then you thought, wow, somebody actually spent the time to write this to me. I am going to call them back and just thank them or let them know what I think. And now I feel like due to the proliferation of and ease of scale with things that are digital, AI included, that authentic human one to one is really valued, not because the other things aren't good. We should be doing that. Those are tools that help our organizations, donors respond to. But I feel like that human touch is more important than ever because it's less likely that you're going to receive it again. We work with clients where if you have a team that's ready to decide, take the strategic guidance and the prioritization that we have through our tools like giving DNA where you have a mid level file of 5,000 donors and you only have time to really build relationships with 500 of them. Well, we can help you identify them, um, and then provide, you know, through years of experience. What's that engagement look like? What's the outreach strategy? So we can help our clients do that. But if you really want to pick up your mid level program and don't have a person on staff now, we can also take that next step with the outreach. You know, we spend a lot of time getting to understand your Organization. Just like when you onboard a new employee, we want to onboard our team so they are acting as a representative of your organization. I say this but uh, not we're not going to know everything. Just like I don't know everything about agp. Somebody may call me, a client may ask a question, I have to go to one of our colleagues and so but we are going to sincerely want to understand your organization. So when my um, team of people are reaching out to build relationships with your donors, you know they, we can proudly say like they are an extension of your mission and they're going to help you to connect, strengthen that relationship with your supporters.

Speaker B: That's such a good point because my experience with many organizations, particularly mission based organizations and I, I say those, all of our organizations are mission based. But what I mean are those that might be in human services like the food banks or the rescue missions ministries and then expanding maybe out to animal welf and the like as a, as opposed to very important hospitals, arts and culture, higher education where there's kind of a stream of a, of a customer or a patron or a student in their orbit. They obviously can be a next generation supporter and mid level donor. But back to the mission based organization. You know I was with a food bank recently and what struck me is their mid level program is starting to gain some momentum and that's a function of them actually identifying a person who has strong affinity with the food bank and loves to talk about the mission impact. So that's very natural for them to be on the phone. Part of the problem that we find is that that's kind of a uh, in this particular case a part time job because that individual also when it's time to do the gala or the other event or they need some extra hands in a different area, that person's kind of floating a bit. So we're missing opportunity for the timeliness to have the appropriate conversations that are necessary to truly make this go beyond just hey Ryan, here's a list of folks you should call and thank when you get a chance versus hey Ryan, here are some folks that we think might actually be good candidates to give a larger gift, who've given a recent gift, who should be thanked and could also be talked to more about who we are, why we're important, thanking them for their gift, the impact their gift made and making an offer when appropriate to extend their reach. What do you think about the internal versus external? Because some organizations clearly have some mid level gift officers.

Speaker C: But yeah, I think the biggest thing is you have to commit to consistency because the start and stop, that's a disjointed experience for your donors, let alone what you're dealing with internally. You have to be able. So whenever we start a mid level engagement with our clients, we determine, do you have staff to do something or do you need us to, you know, hands on keyboards, ah, on the phone. When that's determined, we also then want to understand, okay, well if you do have staff internally, let's be realistic about what kind of portfolio you can manage because we want you to consistently reach out to these people. This is not telemarketing, where you're picking up and calling and, you know, speaking one time. You're really building a relationship with these people. And that requires ongoing conversation. It also means the consistency of the conversation. Again, we're, uh, not telemarketing, we're not reading from a script. We'd certainly have strategic guidance and those types of resources. But we want you to be able to have a conversation with somebody tomorrow and then five months from now when you realize, oh, I got to reach out to, you know, sue or John again, you can see what you spoke to them about before, what is it they cared about, what were their interests, what were the questions they had? And then build off it because again, we're building relationships which the client, the donor, excuse me, deserves and the client benefits from.

Speaker B: And to kind of put a wrap on that before I want to go on the next topic. I mean, that human element is critical. What we've talked about in this segment is all about how the person who has a deep connection to the organization from the inside, whether they are on staff, a volunteer or an ambassador, that might be one of our concierge, that is a human element. And that human element is more important than ever. As you said at the top, I think it's important that everybody understand there's a lot floating out there about virtual engagement officers and cultivation from stewardship. I think it's too early to actually determine what's going to be effective there or not. But I will say it will not replace the human touch that's necessary. We can use AI and technology for prospect identification. Certainly we use some sophisticated models in order to identify prospects that would be more likely to give it that level at points where the, where the real mid level opportunity is. I think that AI and other tools can help you show up more relevant in your conversation, better prepared. But it's not a replacement for the conversation, it's what gets you ready for it. So we talked about a Lot of things in there. Whether it's your resources or our resources or equipping some volunteers from a stewardship perspective. Let's make sure, as Ryan said, we're talking to the right people at the right time. And the old Seth Godinism, right personalized, relevant and timely touch. And to your point, it's not just a one time touch. Brian. Talk to me about where we've seen some success, you know, both through AGP partnerships, but as uh, you've observed, you know, we're in the industry where we're observing some great success in mid level, but still an awful lot that leaves to be desired. But share with everyone some of the successes we've seen when they have that discipline and they apply themselves to mid level program.

Speaker C: Yeah. So last Q4 giving season began working with one of our public media clients and you know, you'd mentioned it, so just kind of popped in my head volunteers. And so we worked with the team at this public media organization and they said, you know, we have one individual that can consistently perform outreach. We also have board members that are volunteers that we want them to reach out to their um, constituents in their various counties that they represent for our organization. And so, you know, we provided them with, you know, here's the approach, here's how you want to speak to these people, here's what you want to ask them and learn about. And then, you know, here's some of the resources you can share back with them if they do want to learn more about one of the programs or some of the work you do. And so we work with them from September through the end of the year. And I mean it was phenomenal. 90% of those donors, 89% actually. But um, I'll round up to 9,0. They made their largest gift ever to the organization. And remember, and they're not unlike other organizations, ah, most of these supporters have been on file for five or more years, many over 10 years. The largest gift they ever made was when we executed this program for their mid level manager and for a handful of board volunteers to begin reaching out to them and not simply reading off a script and saying, hey, I want to thank you for your last gift. Thanks so much. Make sure to give again. No, we wanted to really strengthen that relationship and elevate that. And it showed through. 91% actually retained, which that's a really high number. I'd love it if it was 100%. But at the end of the day, 91% of these people, 90, 89% made the largest gift 91 retained. That's a significant outcome just in a short period of time, which, oh, by the way, they're continuing to work with this on this after just seeing the success of what a short period of time come through.

Speaker B: And I want to make sure I heard that right. In that case, we were empowering and equipping their team with the right lists of who to talk to and then the full picture of how to cultivate those larger gifts. Is that correct?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, um, there's really a couple different facets to this. The program is we're going to use data, intelligence and machine learning to identify who you should be spending the most time with. Right. Because again, mid level is vast. Unfortunately, we can't personally touch everybody. To build these relationships, we do incorporate some timing based segmentation. So if somebody does make a gift and maybe they're not, and that priority segment, you're still going to reach out to them. That's one part of it. And then in addition, we want to work with your team because, you know, in some cases I work with organizations where they have a gift officer who has a light portfolio. Maybe they're new to the organization, they understand how to build relationships with individuals, um, or it's a new person who's, you know, not that experienced and they need a lot of heavy coaching. And so what we're sharing with them is what the approach is. Well, let's put it this way, very simply. What's the opening? Well, I tell you what, it's very simple, five words. I'm not calling to ask for a gift. It's something as simple as that. By saying, look, you want to open, introduce yourself, ask to speak to that person and then say, I'm not asking for a gift. Why is that important? Well, because most times when a nonprofit calls you, you anticipate they're going to ask for a gift, which is perfectly fine. But we want them to, um, lower their defense mechanism. And that allows us to very quickly have a conversation. And so we're going to provide that, that ongoing support. We're going to provide resources that we feel their donors care about. Because again, once you get to that mid level, you certainly want to continue to get the annual fund and the, you know, the, the mailings and emails that got you where you are. But if you're writing a check for $1500, you may want to hear a little bit more about what your dollar is going towards. And so we work with them on a variety of different things. Both segmentation, what the communication strategy should Be and then what are some of the resources that'll help you and also be beneficial to your donors?

Speaker B: That's really solid. I think that one of the most important things we try to get across, it's a people to people thing. If you ask somebody why did you support our organization? Everybody has a story, particularly those that we're going to tee up for potential mid level because it's probably not because their niece asked them to make a donation. It's probably because they have a personal story either close to them or someone in their family that either loves the arts or loves animals or themselves had suffered with food insecurity when they were younger and they want to give back. But sharing those stories, I've also found that the people that work for these wonderful organizations that we've been so blessed to work with, many of those people inside work there because they have their own stories. So connecting those two stories and to your point, then being able to open up more about the work that we do, why it's important, how you've already helped and how your support continues to make an impact is a natural transition rather than it kind of being salesy

Speaker C: a couple things that just I uh, have to share. So as far as like what it means to them, think about this. These donors haven't had a chance to tell anybody what it means.

Speaker B: That's exactly right.

Speaker C: So I mean they open up and it's like, like such a wonder to them. Like wow, I've heard it so many times. I can't believe you're calling me just to like thank me and ask for, ask uh, what I, why I support you. It's like almost like a breath of fresh air, a release of some sort where they can share it with somebody finally and we, you know, you want to do it sincerely and that shows through. And then you know, uh, on the staff we work one of our longest time clients, you know, religious, arts and culture type organizations, they had a mid level manager who was soliciting and this individual, it was a tough sledding every day and I could see the weight bearing on his shoulders. And we said a few years back we said, let's try this approach. It's all about stewardship cultivation. I can't tell you how his demeanor changed, how much he loved the work he did and how successful he was actually speaking to donors. Whereas before it was like, like, you know, quick preamble, ask for another $2,000 gift. Now it's just all about getting to know them and thank them. And he loved the conversations he had, he looked forward to picking up the phone and having those conversations, sending those emails. And here's the kicker, by the way, doubled revenue in first year from 1 million to just over 2.

Speaker B: That's amazing. And to your point, what we're doing is connecting somebody's passion as to why they worked at that organization and just saying part of a big part of your job, maybe the most important part of your job is to have conversations with people who are like you, that share the same passion and they also happen to be longer term loyal donors that likely have capacity to give a bit more. And when that time arises, and granted there's a discipline to it, let's not kid ourselves that if we're not actually working towards an ask, it won't. People don't give if they aren't asked. But to your point, it's not all about a transactional element. In this day and age, it's more important than ever. Talking about some other programs because I think it's important to note that you could do a mid level program standalone. They usually work best regardless of who your agency might be working on. With Annual Fund, we've worked with organizations in partnership with that other agency. But if you're in annual fund, the omnichannel approach, to have that continuity related to personal outreach paired with elevated direct response. Talk a little bit about how we can prime the pump with uh, a direct response mechanism, particularly in the mail. That is a higher level touch, maybe that VIP type touch through the mail that kind of cultivates before we have those conversations.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah, so we actually have a webinar coming out early on in the health space where the work that uh, my team does with the identification and the personal one to one outreach, that certainly played a big part in it. But there was also this greater strategy where one they rebranded their mid level giving society and why that's important. It's very important. One thing I love when I work with clients that have mid level giving societies is it's not just some internal mechanism to talk about a donor group that gives between 1 and 10k. Right. You're creating a community that you can use to bring together and it's also a way to let them know how important they are to your mission. Right. Uh, and so that creates that greater community. And so they rebranded it it, they spoke about it. We did our job with the personal outreach and the coaching for two mid level managers that had portfolios. But then we also began to elevate the communications. They still received the direct marketing that they were always receiving. But we incorporated some higher level stewardship packages. We also were implementing some timing based stewardship and cultivation, for lack of a better word, for donors that were about to lapse. So we're really trying to be intentional about communicating with these people on a one to one. But then also what they were receiving through mail and digital kind of better aligned with how they felt about the organization, their giving levels, what was important to them. And so it's been wildly successful. I'm super excited to talk about it in a few weeks. And it just brings together everything. It's not only about the work that myself and my team do, it's about the work that we all do. So myself, my team, our colleagues that manage direct response programs, we want it to be very, very cohesive to create that experience that is consistent, um, and appropriate.

Speaker B: You named a few things in there that I think are key to recap too. What you call your mid level giving society is important. You want people to feel part of community. That's more important than ever. We can draw from some for profit examples in direct response. Many of you on the call might actually have a premium credit card, for instance, that allows for travel benefits or admission into membership, uh, into the airline club or whatever else it might be. I had an Apple card. The presentation when they deliver that card in the packaging is significantly different. You feel like you're part of a special group, if you will. You feel like you're part of a tribe. We think it's really important. That's a natural extension with mission. If we're trying to turn mission into movement and actually align mission with capacity to give and support, that's something that we have in common with those folks that are supporting us. So it's a natural extension. And it isn't just the one to one. Um, I'm eager for that webinar because I do think all those various touch points both in the thank you, the stewardship, what's happening on digital, what's happening in mail, to prime the pump for that conversation, but to keep them in that category so that it isn't just an episodic one time gift at the end of the year of one or two or three thousand dollars and now suddenly we call them a mid level donor. We might assign them into somebody's new portfolio or maybe they're at the bottom of the portfolio of a major gift officer. Uh, that couldn't be worse to be honest with you. Because the person that just graduated into mid level certainly doesn't want to feel like they're the nuisance in the major gift portfolio's attention. Right. So that it's got to be intentional in there. Right. Ryan?

Speaker C: I won't go as far to say as it's like a bespoke, uh, experience, but we have to meet our most loyal supporters where they are and really just recognize how they feel about our organization. And we want to reciprocate that. And so you have to have this. Just like when you start an annual fund, you're getting your typical monthly solicitation. Well, when you're in a major gift, you're not seeing anything that's mass produced. You have a major gift officer that is individualizing and personalizing every communication. Right. That's at, uh, almost every organization. And so we're blending that in mid level. And that means we have to kind of make some shifts and make some intersperse some stewardship with those, you know, monthly appeals that they continue to get. We have to be cognizant of where this donor is with their relationship and their journey with our organization, because again, if you don't do that, they're going to plateau and eventually you're going to lose them.

Speaker B: I love that. Uh, well, as we wrap, I mean, there's a couple things that I'd like to share with the audience. We always like to end our podcast with things that we feel like you can do. Picking up on Monday. One of the things that I'd like to challenge the audience, and I want you to pick up on this, Ryan, and maybe add to it. Do you know how many donors in your organization sit between your average gift and your major gift threshold? So there's two key points there. You can get your average gift, and you know where you right now are assigning folks into major gift portfolios. So for those that are in between, I challenge our audience to get that number. And then just as important, do you know who's moving them? Who's responsible for moving them through? I want to throw that back to you because you're a big believer that the mid level doesn't necessarily need to be a transient bridge between annual fund and major giving. It can be more than that, because sometimes that is the destination for some of our supporters. But what other tips would you either add to that or support, irrespective of the type of program, so that our audience understands the opportunity that's in front of them and that they prioritize it as they're doing their planning? Yeah.

Speaker C: So you hit it first. Let's recognize what your mid level program is. And it's very simply as seeing, you know, where's 50% of our revenue coming from. Like what is that gift size? Right. Could be 500 to 5,000, 1k to 1,000. It could be 250 to 1,000. That's for you to determine whatever, uh, is below major giving and then from there I really think you should make an effort to beginning to personally steward these people. This isn't about creating a portfolio yet, just making sure that. And a lot of organizations are doing good at. They do this assigning to somebody, whether it's donor relations, your annual fund manager, hey, I'm committed to two hours every week. I'm going to pick up the phone and I'm going to call everybody that made a gift over $500. That discipline, the consistency, I can't tell you that was like day one for me. We need to be consistent about it. So start beginning to call and simply thank those people. That's really the first step. You want to make sure these people feel heard and valued because otherwise they're not going to continue to give it that level, unfortunately. So make sure you're doing some effort where you can personally think. And uh, look, it doesn't have to be everybody. I always start by telling our clients that let's be realistic about who and how much time you can be put towards that, because any little effort is going to help. And so maybe it's everybody giving at mid level. Maybe it's only donors. It's only 100 owners that you can manage throughout the year. Right. You can make, make three calls a week and, or two calls a week. But start there, I promise you. Start there.

Speaker B: Yeah. Define what it is. Know who's responsible for moving it. If you need some help, engage someone like AGP or any other fine agencies out there that have programs. I think it's important that everybody here today hears that. It's not just, here's the list of who to call. The mid level program goes far beyond that. It goes the full picture of what to send and when and our connection with that very important part of our donor file that is cultivating the next generation of major donors. Really important. Well, Ryan, I know that, uh, one more teaser for that webinar coming out here probably, and I think about a month or less, depending on people who are listening to this, around early August of 2026, that you're going to have a great webinar that talked about that program and uh, anything else that you'd like to say as we close for

Speaker C: the day, I'm going to get real altruistic. I just personally feel like these supporters, they deserve this. Right? I said it earlier, right? They're not going to write in many cases a seven figure check and see their name on a wall or a building. But if I'm writing a check for $1,000 or 5,000, that's meaningful. I don't care who you are. That's a significant amount of money and they should be appreciated and valued. And so it all starts there for me. There's a lot of positive outcomes from that, but that, to me, it's important that these people are recognized and heard.

Speaker B: Well, thank you, Ryan. I know you're passionate about mid level. I love that your passion infiltrates everyone here at Teammates at agp. And AGP stands for mid level. So if, uh, if you're interested in, uh, talking to Ryan, please reach out and he's happy to help. And thank you for everybody for tuning in today.

Speaker C: Thanks, guys.

Speaker A: Thanks for joining us on another episode of Go Beyond Fundraising. We hope these conversations have equipped you with the tools and inspiration to take your fundraising, marketing and advocacy efforts to the next level. If you're ready to transform your nonprofit's growth and impact. Visit teamallegiance.com to get in touch with the experienced team at Allegiance Group and Pursuent. We're here to help you make a lasting difference. Until next time. Keep up the phenomenal work you do every day. Together we can create a brighter future.