Why the Floor Matters More Than the Ceiling with Anthony Valletta of bartaco

Welcome to another edition of Give Novation, the Restaurant Guest Experience Podcast. I'm your host, Zach Oates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience. This podcast is powered by Ovation, the AI feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what's actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue.

Learn more at ovationup.com. And today I'm so excited because not only do I consider this guy to be a mentor and someone who is just an absolute incredible leader in the industry, but a friend, Anthony Valletta. He's done some amazing things.

He's CEO and president of Bar Taco. He recently launched a podcast called Check Please. And he is all over the place. You could find him speaking, you could find him on LinkedIn, posting great content.

And obviously, you could find him at Bar Taco running a crazy amazing ship. So what's up, Anthony? Dude, so excited to hear, Zach. Thanks for having me, man.

That's a very generous info. The intro you gave me. Thank you. Well, you know, it's pretty easy.

You just got to read the LinkedIn, and it's like, wow, this guy has done a lot of stuff. So talk to us about the restaurant industry. How did you fall in love with it? Because you've been in the restaurant industry for a long time, and you're someone who can be doing anything anywhere, and you're here in the restaurant industry.

Talk to us about that. Yeah, you know, it started at a young age. I was uh it was funny. I was like the pickiest eater as a kid.

I had like chicken fingers and mac and cheese. And when I was six, my parents like, what do you want to do when you get older? I'm like, I'm own a restaurant. Like, well, you're nuts because you don't eat any food, and like that requires you in a restaurant.

And the reason I wanted to is my grandfather, he was a blue-collar guy, ran an appliance store in upstate New York. And every time I'd go out with him, and he was a mentor to me, he's past. But every time I go out with him, we go to these small Italian restaurants, like the ones are the red and white checker tablecloths. But he would walk in and it was like the president walked in.

Everybody knew him. They were giving hugs and exchanging gifts, and it just sunk in with me at a young age of how powerful a moment that was. And to today, I can still visualize. And I was under 10 years old.

I can still visualize those moments, and I still remember how it made me feel as a young child. And something about that moment never left. And as I got to really get involved in food, and now I'll eat anything, I said, I want to do this for people for the rest of my life. I want to create the moments that live in my brain of my mentor, my grandfather who's past.

I want everybody else to have those in places I work. So I jumped in the restaurant space and I did it when I was 13 and just never looked back and couldn't be happier that I have because I think it's it's the such a fun industry, but uh it's challenging at the same time and I enjoy it. What was it that drove you that that attracted you to Bar Taco? So I'd always kind of had my eye on the Bar Teko brand, my Barcelona Bar Taco.

I think they always looked at things differently. And I was running a brand out in Colorado and wanted back to the Northeast for some family reason. My family's all here. And a mentor of mine, Jeff Kakara, was the previous CEO.

He took it over from Andy, who's the original founder. And I knew a lot about like the workings of the brand. I thought it was really cool that they had kind of thread this needle of casual, fast casual, yeah, beach vibe. Like they were doing things just differently.

And the more I kind of researched on how it was founded and Andy and Sasha's principles and they started and all these things, I said there's something really interesting. They have something new, which doesn't happen a lot in our industry. It's usually a recreation of something that just is maybe a better version. I really thought they thread a great needle.

And when I got to meet the whole team, when I was interviewing, I'm like, man, this is where I need to be home. This is it. Um, and I've fell in love with the people, you know, first and the brand second, and now opportunity to lead them in the future and stoked, couldn't be any happier. And you know, I mean, Bar Taco does some incredible volumes.

I mean, like, it's just it's insane. Every time I've gone to Boston, it is packed to the gills. I mean, it is just like incredible. But what's also incredible is that you have, and this is kind of like a I just want to take a quick sidetrack here because you also are really involved with a lot of other groups.

Like you're on advisory boards, you're giving back, you're involved in the community and in different groups like YPO. Like, from a leadership and a time perspective, what advice do you have for people who are trying to manage their calendars and trying to do all this stuff and say, like, I don't have time to be involved in this group, or I don't have time to give back because I'm just too busy right now. How do you manage it? It's a great question.

And honestly, every quarter, my team knows I delete my calendar every quarter. Like, literally every piece on my calendar, I look at every single thing I'm involved in, whether it's advisory or groups, and I reassess every quarter because so much changes. And I really make sure I have what I call return on time, because that's really what it is. It's not about an investment, it's return on time because I'm giving my time to someone or something else, whether that's the business or other things.

What I can say about the other things I do, whether it's advising for Boston University or helping startup companies or YPO, the thing I found there is honestly, that's where I get my inspiration from. It's I talk to other business leaders, other sectors, or other people in the industry. And it's like going to a good conference, right? The conference content's fine, but it's usually what happens at Happy Hour at the Bar where you really get the good ideas, the good connections.

To me, it's the same thing with a YPO or with BU is I'm getting exposed to things I wouldn't be exposed to in the four walls of our taco, but I'm constantly learning ways I can make my business better. So especially at our level, I think it's just as vital to have those moments to make your business better as it is as you work on the business inside the four walls as your team is executing it for you. So it's not easy, but when you enjoy it all and you look at the return on your time, it makes it easier to say no to things versus just saying yes to everything that comes on your plate.

How do you say no to things? The way I look at it, every yes is a no. Yeah. Right?

If I say yes today on this podcast, I'm saying no to meeting with, I don't know, somebody or my team or whatever it is. So to me, I just be honest with them. Like, hey, listen, I I really appreciate it. Ultimately, right now, I've got a lot of commitments and I want to honor my time to them.

And at some point, maybe I'll be able to ring back and let you know. And that's the truth. I always tell them, like, if I'm gonna be a part of something, I want to be able to give you everything you need from me. Yeah, and I can't do it right now.

And that's brutal honesty, right? Is it's the best way to go, I think. I think that makes so much sense. And and I think that that goes too with when you look at like creating expectations for other people or creating expectations for the guest, right?

And because those expectations are the things that are going to really propel the experience, because if you're creating an unrealistic expectation, then they're gonna be disappointed when they come. If you don't create a good enough expectation, then they're not gonna want to come. Right. And so when you think about the guest experience, what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays?

It's an interesting question. And there's always the generic answers of what's on there. But what I actually think is really fascinating about the guest experience today is I think the gap between like the digital expectation, meaning what they're reading before they walk in, and the actual physical delivery, has never been wider, in my opinion. So I actually think that the floor means more than the ceiling right now.

And you think guests are going online, and you know this better than anybody with ovation, their expectations are pre-formed by Resi or Instagram or Google, and like they're reading all these things saying, that's what I expect when I walk into bar taco. But a lot of those experiences, especially the ones that write more elaborate detail, are the extremes. They're either the extreme bad and they make it a bigger deal, or they're these moments of like, it was a birthday, an anniversary, or like they see the extreme polars.

Typically the ones that come in and have a great time. They're not writing excessive content, but they're like, yeah, it's good. So they walk in thinking, I pick this restaurant because man, I read these three reviews, and holy crap, that place is unreal. So when they walk in, they're expecting they're expecting like a not a dinner, but an ayahuasca, right?

Right. And and and we're doing it today, and I say this a little sadly, like with the least experienced crew in history. Because the the town pool's been challenged recently, right? So you're trying to provide above what they ever expect with a challenging, you know, entry-level component.

And I think that's where the floor people have set to me is what's most important about guest experience, then the ceiling. Because Saturday at seven o'clock, everybody can operate pretty well unless there's an exception of your rule, but like that's the easy part. Restaurants are easy Saturday at seven. You're fully staffed, the restaurant's there, like everything's kind of cranking.

It's Tuesday night at nine or Wednesday at 2:30 when the floor drops out. And I think right now guests are so specific in what they want. And because some are pulling back, quote unquote, as you see, they're just selective. I think they're pulling back, they're just being selective.

And if your floor is too low, even if they select you for a cocktail and it's not that five-star Yelp review, I think the guest experience suffers. I think that is where I put more of my time. Is like, how do you close that gap and create more of those moments for your guests? And speaking of that, like in terms of tactics, what have you found that has been successful in trying to do that and trying to actually meet the guest where their expectations are?

Yeah. It's funny, but I challenge my training team all the time, a great training director, and but she's she's very methodical, which is great. But to me, I think so many places are looking and they they call these like back to basics. You know you hear this all the time in the industry, and it's well, we're gonna go back to our spiel and to our steps of service.

That's important. But tell me the last time you've gone in and had an exceptional time in a restaurant, like laughing, joking, the vibe's great, and you recognize that your water wasn't full. It doesn't happen because you're not focused, but when your water's not full and you notice, it's because you're not having a good time, because you're not experiencing everything, right? So people forgive the little missteps in service, and oftentimes I think actually don't even notice them when they are so engaged and having a good time at your restaurant.

So to me, there's two components. It's like you got to sell the fun. Like you, you just have to tell them do whatever it takes to make sure the guest leaves better than they arrived. I tell my team the guests have a number above their head when they walk in.

You don't know what the number is, but your job is to make it bigger when they leave, right? And what does that number represent? Yeah, the other way I think that we do that that is very different, is opposed to focusing on the steps of service. The big piece is you've got to train for recovery.

Somebody comes in and has a good time, it's fine. That's the easy part. But that 90 seconds after something goes wrong, that's the moment that turns a mediocre restaurant into a great restaurant and train them and empower them to do whatever it takes. Because I actually was commenting on someone's link the other day, they post this whole thing about managing comps and setting a ceiling for comps when you have to call someone for approval.

I'm like, that's the worst thing you can do because now you're literally lobotomizing the person from taking care of the guest. So for us, we work more on train for recovery, given the ability to do whatever it takes. We had a manager, a guest left a restaurant because the wait was too long, they're pissed off. They bought their dinner at another restaurant.

Oh, wow. We didn't get out. We're like, no problem. That's a great moment.

If you felt they were that upset and you felt bad about it, I don't care how much the dinner costs. And I think training on those moments that like that's what we really expect you to do. Yeah, I want you to spiel somebody, I want you to clear the table, of course. That's all table stakes, no pun intended.

But it's those moments, and and you, I'm sure you see all the reviews you guys analyze, like those are the moments people write about. That's the stuff that gets you the accolades that you really want. Not I went in and had a great restaurant, you know, great meal, great food, great ambiance. Okay.

I'm happy for that, but like that's not getting me anything above and beyond. You know, it's wild, is we did some studies that showed that the value of a recovered guest, so upset guest proper service recovery, the value is actually 24 times more than the average guest. And that's when you look at intercepting that negative review, putting out positive reviews, and all that stuff. But if you just look at the dollars, like let's remove any fluff, let's remove any of the marketing Gary V.

They know it's supposed to be important, but it's hard to measure stuff. And let's just look at the dollars. They spend five times more money per year than the average guest. So that recovered guest literally five times more.

Why? Because they come in more frequently, they spend more money every time they come in, and they're more likely to share it with their friends and more likely to bring people in, more likely to do catering orders, more likely to think about you when they need something because they say, I know that I can trust this brand, that they've got my back if anything goes wrong. And that trust means dollars. And so people say, What's the value of trust?

5x. That's the value of trust. Yeah. I fully believe that.

And I've seen it back to the days when I was a GM. But some of my regulars I still talk to today from 20 years ago were people that I can remember the experience when I screwed up. I remember, I'm like, I tell I'm like, I remember like it was yesterday. We can joke about it, but the point was, those are some of my best regulars because you spend all that time being like, God, I just I failed you and I want to make it right.

And they realize, I think, deep down, like who your brand really is. You can try to recover a guest. I won't share the brand. It wasn't a restaurant brand, but I had an issue with a customer service thing, and they basically like, well, was it American Airlines?

No, God, that's it. So like I called, like, well, we can't really help you, but you can call the manufacturer and they can help you. And I was like, but I just bought it from you. I just like I'm confused.

I'm like, well, that's just what we would do. So I'll just give you the number to call direct. But it told me about their brand, who the customer service is at the core. It's just a function.

Where so and a lot of restaurants, unfortunately, act that way, right? It's a function like, oh, I have to go to that table and I have to take the steak off because it's cooked wrong. And I've done my job. I checked the box and I did.

Versus, like, is part of your brand DNA, this is a gift. I can, if I do it right, to your point, I get 24x return. I'll take that every day. And so many brands are so worried about getting, they worry about like getting screwed over.

They're worried about like someone taking advantage of them and that complaining Karen or Ken who comes in there and just is looking for the free thing, the free thing, the free thing. But when you actually boil it down and you look at how many what percentage of people are actually trying to take advantage of you, it's like less than 1%. But yet our gut instinct is to treat everyone like that 1%, unless you have a leader like you who actually instills that in others. I think that's just so powerful, Anthony.

Yeah, you're right. So as you think about this industry, I know that you know you know so many people. Who is someone that you feel like deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who's someone that we should be following?

Can I give you two? Oh, you know what? Yes, because you have such good suits, I'll give you two. Um, well, the first one is somewhat self-serving, but I want to preface this.

Like, there's so many great people in our industry, right? No, it's not me. No, the guy. There's so many incredible people.

And sure, I could give you a laundry list of names that I'm sure you've heard on your podcast a million times. I don't need to tell someone to follow these amazing leaders in the industry. The two I want to give is one where I think the real magic happens in our in our restaurants, as at the store level. We talk about all these leaders that like people are inspiring their brands, blah, blah.

The ones that really make it happen are the ones that are doing it every day. And I have a general manager in the wharf in my restaurant, Dom Haley. She's been like over 10 years. She went from a multi-unit to taking over my most troubled store in the wharf, has dealt with the most adverse I've ever seen in my life, make sure that Bar Taco rings through and through, is leading my brand being up 20% this year in a city that is really messed up right now.

And I call her out not to be a self-serving for my brand, but because it's people like Dom that exist across the country. They do. And every brand has someone that don't get the credit and the ovation they deserve because I can say whatever I want in this podcast and preach and but, but if they do it, those are the ones I want to follow. I want to find more GMs that do that and understand what is it in the four walls that really drives you to do that.

So that would be my like somewhat plug, but I think that's important. To get on a bigger scale just to play the game, the one thing I would say is like I've never stepped foot in a Dishume restaurant, if you've heard of these guys out of UK. They're entering the US the first time in New York. I've never been stepped foot in this restaurant, but I can tell you what the lighting feels like, what the voice of the menu sounds like, their Bombay Cafe story.

I know that's the ovation. These guys, I followed them so closely. They're in the UK. I want to go.

I want to go to London to go to the restaurant. That's how wild it is. But they've done such an amazing job. And Takar, the founder who leads the marketing, I think just has done an incredible job of storytelling without having to walk in the restaurant.

And I'm actually really excited to walk in one in New York when they open. I think it's like a year out, to see that connectivity. And like to me, that is the brand, the person I'm watching most closely because I'm an advocate for a brand. I've never eaten it, which is like I have a hard time saying that as a restaurateur, but it's true.

So like that would be my bigger picture elevation I would give. Man, that's powerful. I think about all those. Remember that fake restaurant that opened up in London a couple a few years back?

Like, I just think about that. And like, I think it's amazing that you could build a brand that you can show people who you are and what you're about without that, without even having to taste the food. Like, that's powerful. If we can get there and then have the food to match it, unstoppable.

Anthony, how do people find and follow you and Bar Taco? So you find me at Bar Taco across the board, website Bartaco.com, my website, just my firstandlastname.com.

I'm on LinkedIn, my email. Anybody can get in touch with me. I'm very public about that. It's my first initial A, my last name at Bartaco.

I like to hear from the guests. I think you know, Zach, my phone number and email are print on the bottom of every receipt asking for feedback. I'm not even sure if I shared that with you, but Oh no, I didn't know that. So like I invite guests to text me and call me.

I get calls every day, but I'm not going to give the number here because I want you to go to Bartaco to get it. But it's on every receipt. You can see it. Awesome.

Well, Anthony, for reminding us the power of taking time to take care of the guests. Today's ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us on Giving Ovation. Thanks for having me, Zach.

I appreciate you. Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We're all about feedback here.

Again, this episode was sponsored by Ovation, a two-question SMS-based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovationup.com.