Dave Shah & Camilla Caremoli: One Unforgettable Restaurant Beats Twenty

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Speaker B: Most founders typically ask, how do we open 20 locations? Our question when we open the restaurant was, how are we going to make one location unforgettable? Curiosity for expansion and desire for expansion doesn't create a story. But if your story and your brand resonates so well with a community of people, I think that creates a lot of expansion opportunity.

Speaker A: Welcome to Full Comp, a show offering insight into the hospitality industry, featuring restaurateurs, thought leaders and innovators served up on the house. What if the operators most likely to build something unforgettable are the ones who have never run a restaurant? Dave and Camila had never worked a shift in hospitality. Before opening Casa Daomi, Dave built a global tech studio. Studio in Thinks, in Brand. Camila comes from four generations of an Italian food family in Thinks in operations, and a year in, they built the kind of business a community actually shows up for. In today's conversation, we get into why they chased one unforgettable location instead of 20. How they learn to separate real feedback from noise. And why the relationships built inside of a room outlast any menu, wine list or buildup. If you're an operator who believes experience is the only edge that counts, this one's going to challenge you.

Speaker B: Well, so my background's a very unorthodox one, to say the least. I grew up here in Southern California, in Orange county more specifically, and it coincided with the time where I was kite surfing competitively. So I was traveling quite a bit while I was in school competing at uh, various locations and interesting and beautiful destinations around the world. And uh, getting ready, determined what my next phase of life would be. I was entrepreneurial ever since I can remember. And my first entrepreneurial path, in a sense was when I worked with a number of brands who were sponsoring me for kite surfing. Some of Those brands were GoPro and Maui Jim Sunglasses, uh, just to name a couple. And I fell in love with what the meaning of a brand is and how that brand becomes recognized, loved, and becomes something that's part of everyday culture. And I think that being in that intersection of sports and marketing led me to feel a desire to build something of my own. And that was what planted the seed for me to found my first technology company, which was back in 2014. And ever since then, I considered founding a company to be the most exhilarating adrenaline rush one can imagine in all the amazing ways and in all the most frustrating ways in the world and in the most humbling ways as well. And fast forward. I founded my second tech company in 2016 right before graduating high school and moving to Los Angeles for the next four years to study at usc. Uh, built that company over the next. I mean I'm still doing that every day. That's still where I am Monday through Friday. But through that business and working with, you know, some incredible individuals, I met Kami. It was a mutual friend who, huh, had just moved to California to join the company and we got to become very close and he was from Miami. But I think that's where I'll let you, Carrie, the story of your background and how our paths crossed.

Speaker C: Yes. So I'm originally born in Italy, just outside of Milan, it's smaller town called Monza. But my family moved to the US When I was just entering middle school. So I was around 11. So this love relationship started happening and seven, eight months later, I had moved to Orange county myself. So. So that's kind of where we connected and we coincided. We're actually getting married in November 17th.

Speaker A: Congratulations. Let me see if I can continue this story for you. So things are going well, right? The agency's making all of this money. Your companies are doing very well, the relationship's going well. And you're like, we need to figure out a way to blow a ton of cash to create some tax breaks. And I really want to stress test this relationship before we actually tie the knot. We should open a restaurant together.

Speaker C: Exactly, yes.

Speaker A: What's the worst that could happen?

Speaker C: Yeah, it was a little bit of like that foolish dreaming that you beginning where it's like how hard could this really be and why can't we do this? And honestly, it's been the most humbling and thrilling experience. Like all the emotions together combined every day.

Speaker A: But you guys have a really interesting background. It's obviously like until you've done it. I mean, like, look, I ran great places before I opened my first and I knew that by running it. I knew exactly what to expect when I became an owner and yet somehow I didn't. So like even being like deeply steeped in it, like the chasm between managing someone else's business and owning and operating your own is just massive, full stop. But you guys are industry adjacent. I mean Dave, I look at you and I see branding and marketing and positioning and awareness. Come here. I look at you and I see supply chain and distribution and culture and all of these things. So it seems like the individual elements are there. So I would ask expectation the day before you open versus reality now that we're almost a year into this and it's all like all entrepreneurship is strategic guessing. Right? And God willing we just get better at guessing over time. What were the guesses you initially made that turned out to be true and writing you've doubled down on and then where were the miscalculations from what you thought it was going to be relative to what it is?

Speaker B: So that's interesting that you mentioned that Josh, because it was about a year from. Just over a year, about a year and a half from um, when we decided to pull the trigger on this and officially sign a lease to when we opened our doors. And part of that was because our space is a first generation space for restaurants. So we were. Whereas we thought we were going to open this restaurant, our first chapter of this journey began in construction and learning about constructing a restaurant and building a restaurant space out which we knew nothing about. So while we're trying to develop that brand and set and you know, we had certain expectations in mind, there was a whole new learning experience that we had ahead of us and, and huh. That we were trying to tackle at the same time. So that was for one a very interesting path that we, we found a lot more challenging than we had expected from there I think it's been when we opened, we opened an all day concept and it was a cafe by day and a restaurant and wine bar by night. Right. So we had this coffee program. Our space is very small. I mean if you count our bar seats, we have just over 60 seats and the restaurant. And we were aiming to accomplish a lot, create an all day space that was for the community in a location that has been very overlooked by hospitality in general forever. I mean, the Balboa Peninsula caters so much to tourists and the weekends and who I came in as a child looking to find, and not at all what the thousands of residents look for. And I think that was our expectation, was that we're going to open a place that is for the community and for those who are coming by and, uh, want to discover something that hasn't yet been done. And I think Kaimi can probably talk a little bit about what that looked like from when we had envisioned it into execution.

Speaker C: Yeah. Like Dave was talking about, when I look back at our original deck that we had showed our landlords, I mean, it's day and night to compare to what the operations are that we're running actually today. And that's how it is with anything. You know, you think something is going to work, and then you actually, you know, figure out what the people actually want, what actually is working for you, and you kind of have to pivot. Hopefully you did it fast enough to where, like, the market responds in a positive way. Something that we kind of saw right away was the reaction from the locals regarding our nighttime service, which was fantastic. I mean, it was something that. That was probably the best guess and something that turned out to be true was that there really was a, uh, hole in the market in that particular location for something exciting, new and tailored to, really, the locals. And that's something that resonated immediately with the community. And we found almost like, no challenge of being basically having, you know, people in there every night from the beginning, which was amazing. We felt so honored, so blessed. And, you know, when you first open a restaurant, there's something really interesting that happens. And I don't know if this is just me speaking or if this happens to other founders or other restaurateurs, but it's like you almost feel, like, naked, like, kind of vulnerable in that sense, where it's like, I have this idea, I spent all this money, I spent all this time, all this energy. It's like, are people actually going to like it? You feel like, like under the spotlight, where it's like, maybe in other businesses you don't feel that way. You know, you're not in front of your guest all the time. Maybe you're behind a computer or in your office, whatever. But that was a feeling that I did not expect to come up, but it really did. So the fact that our dinner service and, you know, our, uh, wine bar Concept really resonated so well. Like we couldn't be happier.

Speaker A: So that is probably a new experience for you. Again, it's something you take for granted when you come up through the industry is affected the feedback loop, it's a really small loop and like the feedback is instantaneous, which isn't true in almost any other industry. So I think what you struggle with is a founder of the proverbial you. I'm really just talking about myself. What I struggled with for years was feedback, right? With signal versus noise, like what do you take and like move forward with like what is great feedback and what is. You know, that corner is pretty empty. You could put a stripper pole over there because you don't know. Everybody thinks they have great ideas. And the restaurant industry is one of the few industries where like everybody has an opinion and everybody is certain that they're telling you right and they shared and they shared in real time. And so I would assume that you guys got into this to make a little bit of money, but mainly to make a lot of people happy. So I think the initial reaction is always, you know, that you inspire a lot of joy and a lot of rage. For some reason that's just the nature of opening a new thing. But then you guys have to sit after the restaurant's closed in a quiet room and decide this feedback is worth listening to. And this isn't because lord knows, if you took every suggestion you got over the last 12 to 15 months, it would be a zoo. So early on, how did you guys filter and like, what is your process for filtering that information today?

Speaker B: I think to start, uh, it was so important given that our only restaurant experience going into this. Now mind you, Kami had experience in the food business being what, fourth generation in the food industry. But our only experience in hospitality on, uh, the hospitality guest facing side was as customers. And we like to think of ourselves as great customers in a lot of places. So we would travel. One of our shared passions has always been to explore hospitality venues, whether it's a bar, cafe, a restaurant or hotel or resort, wherever we go in the world. And that was all we had brought to the table. So we looked when we were building our concept out into finding people that had what we lacked. And immediately, I think one of the most interesting things, uh, was that we found that it's a very egocentric business. The people that work in it and the people that enjoy it and consume it are very egocentric people. They're very loud, they have a lot of opinions. And I want to spend a second to talk about our journey, finding our chef, because I think he. This is a perfect example of what we're talking about. And Connie was leading the interviews for our executive chef position. And maybe I'll, uh, let you talk about Rodney, because he was the first executive chef we interviewed, and he's with us today. And I think he's made a significant impact and how he's able to respond to.

Speaker C: To feedback from guests a hundred percent. I mean, he is the reason why we're here. And this was not just for robbing. This is an example. So for Alan. But, yeah, like Dave said, I don't know how to turn on a, uh, commercial oven if.

Speaker A: Oh, my God, I don't know how to turn on a regular oven. I'm right there with you for sure. No judgment here. No judgment here.

Speaker C: Yeah, I. I do, but I don't at the same time. And it's like, we didn't have the experience that many restaurateurs have, where it's like, you have come up through the chains of, like, working at a restaurant and you know, how the operation should look like, and you have a trade. We don't have a trade in this business. We're not bartenders, we're not cooks, we're not anything. So we're just diners. The only thing that, like, Dave said, we had to offer was our opinion and our insight as far as, like, what the customer wants. Which sometimes I feel like I've been to some amazing restaurants and, like, some great places, and sometimes, you know, the chef is in there and he's the owner, and he spent so much time developing these amazing, amazing recipes or experiences through the dining, but it's just not doing well as a business. And I feel like it's because sometimes you're not thinking enough about your customer and what's actually going to sell and how you're going to tell your customer who you are. So where that branding and that communication aspect comes in is so crucial, which is basically what Dave and I had together as far as, like, actually turning on an oven. We had to get a chef. And so when I met Rodney, it was our first interview. So Dave was very hesitant to say that this was our guy, but I was 100% like, this is the man he was.

Speaker B: That combination, where he's able to listen and internalize the feedback so well while maintaining the integrity and identity of our concept and that balance, to your earlier point, Josh, I think, is something that is one of the biggest challenges. Right. What do you listen to when we're sitting down. Rodney knew what to listen to. He knew how to internalize it. He knew how to adjust what needed to be adjusted in a way where Kami and I would be confused. We didn't know what to listen to. I mean, we're getting conflicting feedback. And when you're just opening your doors, I mean, people are so bold. They're, they're, they're great. I mean, they're, they're fricking mean. And, uh.

Speaker A: They are. For sure. They are. People will talk shit directly to your face about the thing that you have spent years working on. Look, I used to say it all the time I was in southern, uh, food, because I'm from Southern Louisiana. And people walk up and they would say, you know, your gumbo is not as good as my grandmother's gumbo. And I would always say, like, let's get her on the line. You think she can push through 750 covers? Call her. Let's get her over here. Like, let's see what she can do. It's a really interesting experience. And again, being outsiders and being so successful in your own right, I would assume that that in and of itself was a shock. Also, I would be curious to know about your team, because I think one of the things that we take for granted outside of the industry is kind of the professionalization of the workforce, which isn't exactly the case in our industry all the time. Most of the time. Some of the time, right. It's like, I don't know how many bank tellers are getting sent home on a daily basis from banks because they're too fucking hungover. I do know that's a thing that happens in restaurants every day. So I'd be curious to know because, again, uh, like, you've both managed teams before. What was it like managing a restaurant team versus managing a team outside of the industry?

Speaker C: I mean, again, it's one of those things that I don't know how I could have been prepared for. It's just one of those things that you learn on the fly, you know, like, it's.

Speaker B: And you hear all the stories in the world of, Of. You have no idea, Dave, what's coming your way. One of my good friends, one of our good friends owns a restaurant also locally, and it's one of our favorite spots. It was our first anniversary. It was birthdays, it was all of it. And he, you know, he's, he's dear to us. And he said to us, and he said to me, dave, one day we were having A drink at the end of his day. So it was pretty late in the. In the evening. And he said to me, dave, you have no fricking idea what kind of problems are going to come your way. You get to sit in an office and work with software engineers and graphic designers all day and clients who are in offices, and this is chaos. You don't know what chaos is until you've had a restaurant. You don't know what you're getting into. And he said, if you're lucky, your restaurant will close and go out of business. If I think what's going to happen, I think you guys are going to break up and never speak to each other again. And we had been dating for about three years at the time. He said, dave, uh, I owe it to you to be honest with you, and the types of people you're going to work with here are going to drive you insane. And that was a reality, uh, check. And I had to calm myself down from now on. I was pretty upset with him for being so candid originally. And looking back, I mean, every ounce of his advice and feedback was fairly accurate. I mean, fortunately, we're still together and our restaurant's still open, but there's been days where we have to question everything or we have and work through it. We're aiming to defeat the odds here. So the people and personnel, I think, from day one, uh, was a huge shock to us.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think our first issue was literally in our first hour of service, on our soft opening.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yes. We had a bartender that literally soft open, first day open, just went through training of, like, three weeks with us. And day one, uh.

Speaker A: Oh, for sure. How could they not? How could they not on day one?

Speaker C: But you know what? This is, like, the hard things that we all have to go through. But then looking at the team today, I am so confident in the team that we have. I don't know if it's because we're so small and because we've just had to go through so much together in our first year, but we haven't had a single employee resign, which I feel very, very proud about. And the only people that are not there today is because they just weren't a fit. And today I feel so confident in the team that we have, and I feel genuinely grateful because, yes, there were bad actors. Like, we all know that this industry is filled with them, but there are some really, really talented and great people to work with at the same time. And we all have bad days. Like, I mean, we all work 40 hours a week in 900 square feet. I don't know if anyone, any other industry has those same challenges.

Speaker B: I mean, at least, at least the 40 hours a week.

Speaker A: I mean, for sure, at least.

Speaker B: I think it's around double that for many of us.

Speaker C: Sure, yes. For us, 40 hours would be nice.

Speaker A: I'll tell you a funny story. I was talking with my general manager at the fine dining restaurant and he just turned to me and he was a young manager, uh, very talented, and he ended up staying with us through the duration of the restaurant. And he was like, I'm exhausted. Like I put in 55 hours this week and I am just, I'm just beside myself exhausted. And as the words are coming out of his mouth, my business partner and executive chef is rounding the corner and just says, out of the way goes 55 hours. I remember my first part time job and they just kept walking.

Speaker C: Yeah, 55 hours would sound nice to

Speaker A: me, but yeah, uh, doesn't it? I would ask you though, like, have you taken inventory? Like, have you guys looked back? I mean, 12 months was March, roughly. Did you guys sit down and have that conversation? Like, if we could do it all over again, this is what we would do differently. This is what we would do the same. And if so, what did that list look like? What would you do differently and what would you do the same?

Speaker C: Actually, we just had this talk not too long ago and I want to hear it us. Like, it's not even like we're normal business partners. Like, we come home and it's like right before we're like headed to bed, brushing our teeth, I was like, you know what I'm thinking, thinking about and it's, you know, a two hour conversation which is, you know, another challenge in and of itself. As if we didn't have any enough. But anyways, we had this conversation recently and kind of going back to my earlier point, when we first started, we thought we were going to be this all day spot. The nighttime resonated with the community immediately. And the daytime, I think for a few different reasons. Our location, the competition of other daytime cafes, coffee shops and whatnot, it really struggled. And I think we were a little bit slow in reacting to just being okay with scrapping part of the identity and the concept and fully diving into what was working and what was pulling the success that we were having. So I think that's something I would have done differently right off the bat is just being less afraid to make real time calls, I think is something that I've learned because like Dave Said or like, we all know, you know, we're here kind of beating the odds. And every day that we're open is really a fight to stay open and be open tomorrow. So I think when we gave it our best effort, uh, for the daytime, whether it was through marketing and, you know, setting up this great process, and when we were a little slow in deciding to fully pivot to a nighttime and full restaurant. So that's something I would do differently. Another thing that I would do differently is for a minute, we thought we could be open and okay without a liquor license, given that we were so wine focused. And I think, like, a few months into being open, we just, like, kind of everybody told us, but I thought, nobody has a good wine program around us, so I think we'll be okay. And that is something that kind of foolishly, we didn't have any enough experience on, and we didn't listen carefully to maybe some of the advice that we had been given. So that's something I would do differently from day one is I would never open without a liquor license, which we now have. Just the results are so different. It's crazy. I mean, I don't know how we went through our first year without it, but we did.

Speaker B: I think the liquor license was huge. I mean, so much of the reason we decided to go into this is because we had a belief that what we feel is missing is what everyone feels is missing. And that's not always the case. I think we had to learn that the hard way through seeing elements of our business struggle so much right off the bat. And what I always dreamt of is having the most incredible European selection of wines in Orange county, but limiting a restaurant exclusively to that and excluding guests that are incredible, that share a passion for great hospitality to only a wine and beer selection might not be the answer. So I think getting over your own dream and opening the doors to new friends and new guests is always a plus.

Speaker A: If I could share a personal aside, what I figured out along the way, like, when I was trying to filter through the signal and the noise myself, and what made being a restaurateur far easier was I just stopped listening to what everyone said, and I just started watching everything that people did. Uh, it was like, the most useful tool in the world. And then I committed myself to not trying to force anyone to do anything that they didn't want to do. On the marketing side, I would ask you, what best practices did you bring from your existing industries into this one? Because Lord knows marketing isn't a strong suit for the industry at large. And I would think, you know, in having worked in and around branding for as long as you did, you gave a lot of thought to product market fit as well as, like, awareness. And so what is your approach there and how has it helped you with new customer acquisition and customer frequency?

Speaker C: He's the branding expert, really. But I can tell you what surprised me is we never really worked side by side before this restaurant. So what? The process that Dave had for us as an exercise before we opened and while we were in construction was in depth. Dave, you did good.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You were deep.

Speaker B: Thanks.

Speaker C: So we started with this concept, right. And then we had to start thinking about what it would look like. The interesting part that Dave brought up was you want your concept to, like, be felt throughout the physical space, and then you want your branding elements to. To be reflected in that physical space as well. So even thinking of, like, the colors that you're gonna have with your branding guide and the tones that you want to have, uh, reflected throughout the space, like, those need to be aligned. And so even when, you know, we were picking out, like, our patio umbrellas or even before that, do we want wood flooring? Yes. Because I think we want to give out this kind of cozy vibe inside the space. So, like, you kind of choose your materials based on who you want to be on the market. And we spent so much time just, like, thinking about who we are, who our customer is, what our story is, how do we relate that and how do we make it feel even in the space itself, all cohesive and all makes sense. So we incorporated our branding elements in the physical space. We incorporated them throughout our storytelling. We incorporated them on our menu offerings, on which wine we're going to have, which food we're going to serve, what coffee cups we're going to use, what kind of sugar we're going to give out with our coffee. And so this was all something that happened before we even opened our doors. And then obviously, you open your doors and things change and things pivot, but what isn't going to change is who you are.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that hit the nail on the head pretty well, I think. Josh. I have a belief that every brand is a story. Every brand should be a story. If they're not, if it's fabricated out of no meaning, it doesn't hold any value, it doesn't resonate. Our logos are rose, and I think our rose shares what brought Kami and I together. So the name Casa Dami is a. So Casa, obviously, is House Dami. Is Dave and Kami. And this restaurant was something that was born out of our love for each other, our love for hospitality. And that's our story. That's where our story began. And we want to create elements, visual touch points, interpersonal touch points that resonate, that help people remember what our story is and what kind of what their story can become, Whether it's a first date that they experience our restaurant for the first time, or it's a business meeting. And, you know, there's a sense of connection that they should remember and that they should take home with them. So I think most founders typically ask, how do we open 20 locations? Our question when we open the restaurant was, how are we going to make one location unforgettable? Because curiosity for expansion and desire for expansion doesn't create a story. But if your story and your brand resonates so well with a community of people, I think that creates a lot of expansion opportunities. So our goal has always been, how do we make this small, intimate venue the best it can be and as memorable as it can be and work outwards from there?

Speaker A: I think the minute you get into the industry, it does something to the way you see every other restaurant. It's now when you dine out, right? You're working, you're always working, you're always looking at, oh, that's where they put the bathrooms. That's very interesting. Oh, look at where service bar is set up. Maybe we could steal that. It changes everything. When I walk through places, when I am dining anywhere, I'm always taking inventory of, uh, what I like that they've done better than me and what I think I've done better than every other place I've ever been to. And, um, the way I like to end these conversations is to talk about the things that you do better than everyone else. And so I would ask you, when you look at your competitive and when you look at the muses that inspired you to do this, and then you look at the place that you built, what did you do better than everyone else? What are the tactics, the tools, the strategies that you've executed that have helped you create a category of one, um, restaurant that we could internalize and we could use to improve our own places.

Speaker B: I'd say it all falls to the people, the people that represent our story and our brand, and the people that enjoy and take that brand with them and return. So often the relationships that have come out of both our staff and our guests are, I think, unparalleled. When I look at what makes us Stand out. It's on a day to day basis that we see that not only is there such a strong camaraderie between our own team, which has taken, you know, just over a year to build, but I think it's going to last a lifetime. But when we on a, every day hear that our guests, our regulars, our friends are coming in to the space and they found, you know, we recently heard a story of someone who found, who met their, the best man at their wedding at our restaurant. They've met their business partners at our restaurant. They're starting a new venture together and that we've gotten to be a part of that story. And our staff, our colleagues, our peers have gotten to be a part of that story, I think is what lasts in our hearts and in our minds the most in tech. The big buzzword for like the last decade plus has been culture. But I feel like the culture we've built at the restaurant, and especially given the preconceptions of restaurant culture are actually not what you'll find at uh, Kasudami at all. These are people who care for each other. They've, some of them are now living with each other, some of them have created romantic relationships with each other, business ventures. I mean everything I've mentioned, these are things that you can't put a value on. And I think that comes out of people. Yes, we can have, we can strive to have the best wine list, yes, we can have the best marble on our bars and on our tables. But how do you put a value on the people and the relationships that are being built?

Speaker C: We get this feedback of like, oh, uh, everybody here is so amazing. And I've met such amazing people at this restaurant. I don't see that happen too many times when I go out at uh, other places. You know, like you walk in and there's so much mingling happening between all sorts of like sectors. And everybody feels like it's like almost on a membership club or like somewhere where like people like know each other and come here because they know you're going to be here or whatnot. And so it really does feel like a community, which really warms my heart because I think that was one of our biggest goals was to create a space for the community. And I think the community has come out and embraced it, which has been

Speaker B: amazing and a large part of that, honestly, I think that that culture was so our first two hires were our executive chef Rania, who we spoke about, but our uh, wine beverage and kind of our front of house manager. His name's Alan, and he created that from day one. I mean, he guided us through the process of creating a place like that. He brought incredible experience to the table, and he's a warm, hospitable person by nature. But those relationships between not only our staff and guests, guests and guests, and staff and staff are just so deep at this point that I don't think that if another restaurant had a better menu or the food tastes a little better, or the wine was better, or the cocktails taste a little better, I don't think that would ever break these relationships up. And I think that's where we take the most pride.

Speaker A: That's Dave and Camila. To learn more about visit Casadame.com hey, it's Josh. I wanted to take a hot minute to thank you for listening to today's episode and to ask that if you are getting value from full comp, please like and subscribe and be sure to leave a review. Those reviews matter and they help other independent owners and operators find the show. Also, if you want to take the stuff that we're talking about in these episodes from I idea to execution, head to joshopel.com there you will find a ton of free templates and tools and all the details on upcoming learning events so you can keep building momentum. I know you're busy and so I don't take your time for granted. Thank you again for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.