Why 17% of the Workday Is Lost - and How Employers Can Get It Back with Jon Cooper, CEO of Overalls

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome back to Friends with Employee Benefits and our final episode of 2025. I am your host, Jeff Cross. And if you've been listening this season, you know we're passionate about helping employers achieve meaningful healthcare cost savings, specifically by empowering their workforce to become healthier and to be more informed healthcare consumers. So today's episode takes that mission even a step further because we're diving into how innovative benefits can not only improve employee well being, but also transform productivity and engagement across the board. So let me ask you this. How much of your workday gets eaten up by personal distractions, those everyday headaches, unexpected disruptions, or even sometimes full blown disasters? If you're like most people, it's way more than you think. In fact, studies show employees spend nearly 17% of their workday dealing with these personal issues. So that's a lot of lost time, energy and focus at work. But what if there's a way to give that time back? To empower employees to tackle life's challenges without missing a beat at work? And that's exactly what our guest today has set out, uh, to do. So joining us today is John Cooper, founder and CEO of Overalls, a groundbreaking doing machine that acts like a life concierge for employees. And the results, well, you're going to have to listen and hear for yourself. So whether you're an HR leader, a business owner, or just passionate about the future of work, you really don't want to miss this conversation. Get ready to rethink what employee benefits can and should be. Let's dive in. John, uh, please take a minute. Tell us a little bit about yourself and also Overalls. What do you do over at Overalls?

Speaker B: Hey, I'm John Cooper. I'm the founder and CEO of Overalls. Um, just by way of background, uh, this is the third business I've started. Um, really since I was a kid, I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Started with a few lemonade stands and those types of things for short stint as the um, Junior Detective Agency. But my first real business was about 15 years ago. I founded a company called Life I.O. and um, that started as a wellness business. And then you learn so much when you're in the market. And um, ultimately it evolved into one of the first and quite a significant insurtech business, um, that uh, sold about four years ago. And then I founded Over Overalls. And um, here at Overalls, what we do, our positioning is incredibly simple. So when we go to a prospect or client, the positioning is, look, any problem your employees have, they Send to overalls. And that's what we are. You know, you think of Google as a search engine. OpenAI is or ChatGPT is an answer engine. We like to think of Overalls as a doing engine. Our job is to get, get things done for employees.

Speaker A: What inspired you to do that? Exactly. So why that next step in your entrepreneurial life?

Speaker B: So for me, Overalls was something I've wanted to do really almost forever. Um, but I didn't think it was really feasible. And that changed with technology. But, ah, a few personal situations inspired this. Um, growing up as a child, my parents were divorced. Both my parents were single and trying to manage life as a single parent. And it was not easy. I'd see my mom struggle with it every day where any little setback, if I got sick, if our basement flooded, if we had an unplanned expense, any of these setbacks were not easy for us to really absorb. And um, we're the lucky ones. So many employees are in a much more difficult situation now. Ten years ago, if I'd contemplated starting Overalls, I think I would have said, I don't know, I don't know if you could really solve all of these problems for employees. But that's really changed. Technology has allowed that, um, to really change and for us to be able to solve a much broader set of problems and to do it really deeply and comprehensively.

Speaker A: Has your vision of the company changed? It's been four years, which I'm sure went by very, very fast. But is it a, uh, a little bit of a different vision today than it was when you first started?

Speaker B: Interestingly, I'd say the positioning has evolved a little bit. Early on we thought what would appeal to employers about what we offer is a real focus on productivity because at the end of the day, people are spending close to 20% of their time at work dealing with life. Just think about it, you as a listener. I imagine today you probably are at work, but you probably spent some portion of, of your day dealing with a personal life situation and every employee's dealing with that. So we thought that would really be the appeal is like, let's help people be more focused, take the distractions off their plate. But what we found is that messaging for employers, it resonated. But what really, really resonated is that they wanted to offer better support for their employees. They understood that they have such a diverse set of needs in a workforce that has such a wide range of needs that point solutions were failing employees, that they needed something more comprehensive.

Speaker A: Yeah, caring for Your employees actually is, uh, a good thing to do and yields results. Right. But I do want to go back to the productivity thing. I mean, essentially what you do is, uh, from the employer's perspective is you do help their employees, but specifically you help them from getting sidetracked by life while they're at work. Right. And so I want you to talk a little bit about personal distractions at work and the cost of that in the workplace, if you can.

Speaker B: Yeah. So we actually did a study with, um, it was run by some graduate students from my alma mater at the, uh, Wharton School, where it was almost like an actuarial analysis where they measured exactly how much time people are spending at work dealing with life. And I expected the number to be big, but candidly was much bigger than I anticipated. The actual number was 17% of the workday on average is consumed by personal life situations. And it's not that every day you spend 17%, but, you know, every few weeks something comes up and you're spending five, six hours dealing with it or you have to miss a day of work. And this is happening to everyone. Now you think about it like executives at most companies, they may have additional support. They might have an executive assistant, they may have a family situation where some of that support is built in. But for the vast majority of the workforce, they do not have that extra level of support. So they're trying to balance their job with all of these life situations and issues. It has a double impact on them. It's making them less productive, it's distracting, but also it's leading to a lot of stress and it's leading to burnout.

Speaker A: Yeah. We should probably clarify when we say, you know, the distraction of life, what do we mean? Can you give some examples of what that means?

Speaker B: Yeah. So we largely think of it as three categories. Um, first we call daily distractors. And these are the things that happen to everyone and they happen all the time. Um, so a few examples I often use. But two weeks ago, my 11 year old son, he kicked a soccer ball through his bedroom window. And fixing that situation ordinarily would be hours of work of trying to find the contractor to do it. They have to come in, they take the measurements, they then custom order the glass on top of it. We had to replace the whole window frame. It was a whole situation. But that's an example of a daily distractor. Another one is recently my cell phone fell into the ocean. Getting that device replaced and shipped and dealing with the device insurance and all that. The second category we call disruptors these things happen less often but take up more time and more stress. Um, on average, every employee will deal with one disruptor a year. So an example of a disruptor might be moving to a new home or, um, my seven year old son, he's my youngest, last year he broke both of the bones in his arm in sort of a freak accident. But all of those situations, like, they're stressful, but they also have just a ton of work involved. When you're moving, you're finding the moving company, you're canceling all your utility bills, you're boxing up and trying to give away half your stuff to Goodwill. Then you're moving to your new place, you're getting insurance, you're, uh, setting up your subscriptions there. Like that long list of things people do, it takes a week worth of work to, to do it. So instead of employees having to take time off of work or, you know, pretend working, where they're sitting in front of their computer while researching. I never saw.

Speaker A: You never saw.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. They're doing their research and so on. They send it to overalls. We're doing it for them behind the scenes. Um, the third big category, so we talked about the daily distractors, the disruptors. The third big category is the disasters in Knock on Wood. These things do not happen as frequently, but when they do, they are devastating. And it tends to be about one in, um, ten employees will experience one disaster per year. Um, or in any given year. An example of a disaster might be a natural disaster. So the wildfires in LA or uh, um, two summers ago, the hurricane in Florida. We were helping people with everything. Finding temporary housing, submitting insurance claims, dealing with fema, finding replacement, um, vehicles, replacement food, like the whole list. Um, or a personal disaster like the death of a loved one or serious critical diagnosis. But all of these things are emotionally heavy. But tons and tons of work in administrative work. And administrative work that requires expertise that people are having to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, anything where people might currently be spending some time at work, making the phone calls, getting the quotes, scheduling the appointments, finding the provider, all of that stuff, those are all life's distractions that you can help with.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. What's the strangest request you guys have ever had?

Speaker B: That's a good question. So I always had the same example, but recently a new one came in that really took the cake. Is that the expression?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, so we had one person moved into a new house and, and sends us a request, says, I've been hearing all these strange noises in my attic. Um, it turns out a feral cat had moved into their attic after their inspection and had birthed a litter of kittens. So they had a bunch of kittens living in their attic, and she wanted to find a humane way to remove and re home this cat and their kittens.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: Um, so that was an unusual one. We've had a few other ones that are quite interesting. We had one where a woman was at her business school reunion and her cell phone was stolen along with her friend's cell phone. Now where it got interesting is she didn't want help replacing the cell phone. She goes, I can see on find my phone. And, uh, my phone's sitting in this house. And described exactly where it was. She's like, I want your help hiring someone to confront them and get my phone back.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: We have one rule, so as long as it's not illegal or unethical, we will attempt to solve the problem. This, unfortunately, fell into at least the unethical category. So instead, what we help them do is, um, file a claim with the renter's insurance policy. Paid a $50 deductible. She got a new phone.

Speaker A: I thought you were going to say you helped her call the police. And, uh, well, we did help her file police reports. Catch the thief. Yeah. Huh. You know, this is so great. And you know, and I think any employer would go, wow, all my employees could use that. But you know this, John, employers, the last thing they want to do is invest in a program only to have low utilization. Um, sometimes even with great communications and a great launch and all the information, employees just don't use the resources available to them. Um, so how do you address that and drive a meaningful utilization for these overalls services?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad you asked. So it's almost unfortunate that utilization has gotten so low on certain benefits that when you start to talk about real success, people don't believe it because they're so accustomed to single digit registration rates and companies, you know, counting an email open as an engagement, um, versus true engagement. So for us, it comes down to a few things. One is positioning. So the positioning is dead simple to employees, which is any problem you have, you send to overalls. So right off the bat, you're eliminating the first barrier to engagement, which is, what is this benefit? What's it for? How do I use it? It's so simple. Any problem you send to us. Um, the second thing is, knock on wood. Because of the experience we've been able to deliver for people, there tends to be good word of mouth, um, amongst employees where they're talking about it with each other, they're posting on Slack or Microsoft Teams about their experience. The water cooler sort of buzz is alive and real. And then the third is we really partner with our clients to launch a very thoughtful engagement strategy. So a lot of times it starts with email, but we're doing joint webinars. If they don't have a digital workforce, we're doing mailers, we're coming on site, but doing everything we can to raise awareness. And the net of it is that for our digitally savvy clients, we tend to see north of 60%, um, participation rates from employees and on average solving about a dozen problems per person per year. And then even for our less digital workforce, we're still seeing on average 50% participation rates, um, within those workforces, which is great.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I was wondering if there are digital versus non digital workforces, are there certain industries where you tend to do better than others or, uh, where overalls would be a particularly good fit or bad fit?

Speaker B: Yeah, so what we typically see is about 2/3 of our clients, I'd say, are sort of in the knowledge work industry. So they're either technology companies, professional services, business law firms, consultants, digital marketing agencies, um, and about a third tend, uh, to be more sort of frontline oriented organizations. And that second group sort of surprised me. Um, but our first large client was actually a call center. And I remember at the end I asked the head of benefits, at the end I said, hey, what inspired you to make this decision? And they said, look, each time one of these issues pops up, my employees are calling out sick, they're missing work. We're now not meeting our service levels or paying someone else time and a half. But these life situations were going beyond just being a distraction factor. They were causing absence, they were causing all sorts of major delivery issues for this organization. And we've seen that replicated across so many clients of ours where we've got large healthcare organizations using it, calling call centers, um, construction firms, engineering firms as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, whatever industry it is back to the engagement and the usage. I mean, the more people take advantage of the program, the better the ROI.

Speaker B: 100%.

Speaker A: Um, but ROI is a tough word, isn't it? I mean, I think these programs struggle sometimes to measure roi. And so how do you measure ROI for an overalls program?

Speaker B: So in our case, really what we look at is two ROIs. One is to the benefits, um, and HR department, and the other is to the organization. So for the organization, we really focus on employee productivity. And we get very granular in terms of how we measure it. It's not an estimate, it's not a back of the envelope. But what we do is every single time someone sends us a request, just like when you get out of an Uber and you leave a rating and you leave, uh, a tip, when you close out a request with overalls, we'll ask you, did we solve the problem? How do you rate the experience? And then the really important question is we ask you, how much time at work did this save you? So employees themselves are reporting back exactly how much productivity they're gaining from this benefit. And the average is about three and a half hours is an employee's estimate of how much time each request saves them. So if they're submitting 12 requests, that's nearly a week's worth of added productivity that that employee's getting from overalls. The other metric we look at that goes, um, to the HR department is really around benefit spend. Because ultimately you don't need a point solution for medical navigation, for caregiving, for financial wellness, and so on if you have overalls, because of the breadth that we're able to offer. So what we find is a lot of times our clients are using overalls as a strategy to consolidate their benefit spend so it's simpler to manage. It's simpler messaging for the employees and they're spending less on one off point solutions.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would argue too, you're also not even capturing there the, um, either the presenteeism issue. Right. The lack of focus at work. And sometimes when someone's trying to multitask, the mistakes that they might be making or the things they might be overlooking or the opportunities might be missing because their mind is not 100% on work.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're 100% right. And the benefits of just feeling less stressed, there's, you know, retention net promoter, there's all sorts of, you know, maybe less tangible but very real additional benefits that come to the employer and to the organization.

Speaker A: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more, John, about the, um, about the health navigation, the caregiving part of this? I think that I don't want that to be lost, uh, on employers who might think about doing this.

Speaker B: So one of the biggest sort of questions we had to answer early on when we founded this business is can we be as broad as we want to be and still deliver a good service? And, you know, today our breath, like when we say literally any problem, what that translates to is about 20% of the problems we resolve for Employees are around medical benefits and insurance, navigation. Another 20% are what we call the home and, um, life distractors. So broken windows, the flooded basements, the find a contractor. About 15% are around caregiving. Another 15% are around family with kids and so on. And then, uh, travel requests and other wildcards. So it gets back to this, like, how do you do all of that and how can you do it well? And what we actually found is breadth isn't a weakness, it's actually a strength. And I'll illustrate that through an example. Um, we had an employee who her first request to us was looking for help planning her daughter's quinceaneer or 15th birthday party. It was a big deal. Balloons, cake, invites, a venue. It was almost like planning a wedding. Um, it was happy and uplifting. Fast forward two months later, she sends us a request where she says, I'm a single parent and I'm the sole caregiver for my two parents who are both disabled. And the challenge she had as the caregiver was not a caregiving issue. The challenge she had is that her parents had taken out a reverse mortgage. There was only a few months left in it, and in three months they were going to lose one, their home, 2, 60% of their income. So that's what she was grappling with. Her parents who are disabled were going to be homeless and lose over half of their income. Now I use, uh, that example to illustrate what breadth could do. Because in a traditional benefits ecosystem that doesn't live anywhere, you know, caregiving company, they'll help you find assisted living facilities, they'll help you with the medical appointments, but they're not necessarily focused on reverse mortgages. Neither is a financial wellness company, neither is an employee assistance program. And instead the employee would just get bounced around and ultimately have to deal with it themselves by being broad. In our combination of a team of generalists along with a team of experts. We have attorneys on our, um, team, we have accountants, nurse practitioners. They were able to work with this employee to resolve that issue. And ultimately we were able to get a six month extension on the reverse mortgage and then found an assisted living facility for her to move her parents into. Um, that is one of those examples where breadth actually becomes much more supportive for employees than having narrow point solutions.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean that's, you're addressing the mind body connection, uh, and money connection. Right. So it is all connected. And to be truly a caregiver service, you've got to do all three.

Speaker B: 100%.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And for, you know, One of the interesting stats that we found is, you know, each year we'll do an annual report where we look back across all the requests, we look at the trends in the data. And something that surprised me is we started to look at what are the most common requests by phenotype. So we look at, you know, people who are managing a chronic condition, people who were parents, people who were caregivers. The thing that surprised me is that the most common request for caregivers was not related to caregiving. That was actually number two on our list. Number one where they were looking for help with general life issues. They wanted help finding someone to pick up their kid from school. They wanted help finding someone to babysit their pet while they were visiting their parents. But the stuff around the home, because they were spending so much time with the person they were caregiving, they wanted help around everything else.

Speaker A: So you can find me a good, a good pet sitter, Is that what you're saying?

Speaker B: We could definitely find you a good pet sitter.

Speaker A: So John, do you have some specific examples of employers of companies and what they've been able to achieve by implementing overalls?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, what we typically see, and we'll talk about different segments and different, um, companies in particular, but across a pretty large book of business now, including some well known universities like University of Pacific, some fun brands like Beatbox Beverages, some other companies like Better Business Bureau. What we'll typically see is after rollout within a month, um, we like to be about halfway towards our engagement goal. So we'll typically see around 30% participation within a month. Within three months we've usually reached close to that saturation point which tends to be 50 to 60% of employees have created an account and are using overalls. And then, um, on average companies use or employees will use overalls around 12 times a year where we're solving 12 different problems for them. Now what that means for the business is, you know, we'll ask the company how much time or the employee, how much time did this save you? And the average is about three hours. So using it 12 times a year, three hours a pop of productivity gains is for each employee that's 36 hours of added productivity that they're getting. And that will translate, you know, on average we'll see a 4.9 out of 5 star satisfaction rating, um, in there as well. And then the whole distribution of the way people are using it about a quarter of the time it's something related to their home or their personal life, helping them navigate and understand Medical issues, doctor's appointments, claims issues, another 20%, um, travel and um, caregiving. Travel uh, is probably about 10%. Caregiving is another 15% as well. So really helping employers in a very broad way and most importantly driving engagement across the whole workforce which is so important. So everyone's benefiting from this, not just a small pocket of IT employees.

Speaker A: You know, I imagine there are some HR professionals and business owners listening to this podcast, um, with a couple of concerns. One being privacy for their employees. And how are you protecting folks, uh, privacy. And then the other is you think about all the things you're talking about, all these things that you will do for people, solve any of their problems, just call us and it must cost an arm and a leg, right? How are we going to be able to afford this? So can you talk about those two what I'll call objections?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm glad you asked. So um, let me start in the order you went. So in terms of privacy, the very first screen you see after you create an account in overalls is our essentially our oath where we talk about how we protect personal information. And there's really two actors we're protecting against. So one is just general bad actors out on the Internet. So everything is encrypted, protected. We are SOC 2 type 2 certified business. We do that audit every year, HIPAA compliant, ccpa, gdp, like all the letters, we've got them. But it's a very important part of our business. We go so far as we'll actually use an external third party that just does privacy for certain very sensitive information that a user will transmit with us. The second actor is really maintaining the trust with the employee around what information gets shared back when with their employer. So a lot of employees will use their personal emails and personal information um, for their account which is fine and we only report back aggregated de identified information so no one's personal situation is ever revealed. Employers don't know how many requests an employee submitted, they just see the aggregated data. Now your question about pricing. We have a few different models. The most common is just a flat subscription based on the size of the organization. We'll also do usage based pricing and it's surprisingly affordable. Um, we tend to be in the same price range as a lot of single instance point solutions like a wellness company, a caregiving company, but think low to mid single digits, um, per employee per month. So really what we're looking at for most of our clients we represent a pretty significant net savings when they start to realize how many other benefits they're able to consolidate through overalls or how many benefits they don't need to offer because they're getting it through overalls.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that will, instead of being sticker shock, that will be sticker elation. I would think people would be thrilled that they can bring this level of support to their employees for that affordable.

Speaker B: Ah, especially when you start to do the per engagement cost, you start to look at those numbers. It really is very, very affordable.

Speaker A: Do you think the industry John, is going to evolve? Uh, and uh, you really don't have a lot of true one to one competitors I think. But how do you see this going over the next few years or several years?

Speaker B: I do think that we're early on a trend that's going to become more prevalent which is consolidation of point solutions. And uh, I think there's a lot of drivers for it. I think there's, you know, employers and employees are asking for it. Employers have to, they're tired of spending so much, they're tired of having to manage so many vendors and they're tired of not getting high engagement with them. Employees are frustrated from not understanding their benefits and having to bounce between them. And now the technology has allowed companies like us to be broader and deeper and more holistic than single point solutions ever were.

Speaker A: And will AI or does AI play a role in that?

Speaker B: So we like to say Overalls as real people solving real problems. So every single request is assigned to a person on our team based here in the United States who's either an expert or one of our generalists. But behind the scenes AI plays a really, really important role for Overalls, a whole suite of AI agents to uh, make us more efficient and more consistent. So every request that comes in being pre processed by AI, we're pulling forward relevant benefits, information about the company's benefits, relevant guides doing uh, research and turning our life concierges really into super concierges where they can do so much more than they could before.

Speaker A: Before we finish this up, I want to shift gears a little bit. We talked really just about Overalls and the service that the product of Overalls, uh, and why it's needed today more than ever with life's madness out there. Uh, but I want to get your perspective, uh, as the CEO, the founder and the CEO of an organization like Overalls, um, and get your perspective on some of the biggest challenges you've encountered since starting Overalls about four years ago and how you navigate through those things.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. So one of the big challenges that I Think a lot of companies in the employee benefits space faces is. And this is not going to be news to anyone, but medical expenses is such a prominent player, plays such a big role in how companies make decisions. So each year we're sort of in this holding pattern, I'd say, where we're waiting to find out what are medical renewals going to look like, how are companies going to react? And that is a significant obstacle, I think, for tons of companies that are working with employers.

Speaker A: Yeah. What's one thing you wish you knew before you started overalls?

Speaker B: Um, that's a good question. So I mentioned this earlier, but I would have started this business 15 years ago if I didn't have that core belief that breadth was at the expense of depth. Just inherently, I've always wanted to do something like this, but it felt impossible because it's like, oh, you can't be good at everything in broad. And we took a chance and sort of challenged that assumption early on when we were doing some pilots and learned that actually by being broad, you can actually be deeper at the same time. But that was a big sort of mental obstacle to starting this business, uh, sooner.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's funny, the similarity with one digital, but, you know, seven years ago we would have said we do employee benefits only because to be good at something you had to do one thing. But we realized that our clients just needed us to solve more problems for them. And so, you know, we're in so many more spaces now, uh, because they. That's what our clients need from us.

Speaker B: And imagine when you have the big picture too, that first core problem of solving employee benefits, you're able to do that better now because you understand what's going on with the rest of the

Speaker A: organization and it's all connected. As we talked about before. Yeah. Uh, anything we missed or final thoughts

Speaker B: before we go, I think we're in one of. Certainly in my lifetime. I'm in my mid-40s, but this has gotta be the most interesting time to be an entrepreneur, to be a business person, because the world is changing so much and, you know, every other word out of everyone's mouth these days is AI. But I think we cannot even understate. Um, we can't overstate the impact that AI is going to have on the way people are operating, the way businesses are operating. So, you know, I think any person who's out there who's questioning, can you both be broad and deep? Needs to really challenge that assumption and start to ask themselves, why am I stuck in this sort of antiquated mindset of needing point solutions when the reality is the world is going to move towards broader, deeper expertise, which simplifies things

Speaker A: for the end user 100%.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Hey, John, before we go, I, uh, do have some rapid fire questions for you. Just personal, a couple of personal things where you could just top of mind whatever comes up first. Right.

Speaker B: This could be dangerous.

Speaker A: Nothing too, uh, dangerous here. What was your first, your very first job?

Speaker B: Um, my first job was at a car wash called Car Buffs. And the way I ended up there was because I had a new car as a 16 year old that within a month I completely destroyed by leaving a watermelon in the trunk that melted. And I spent so much time at the car wash, eventually I was like, can I just work here to try to get this fixed?

Speaker A: Uh, one thing. Now you could call overalls and get that problem solved for you. One thing you'd bring with you to a deserted island.

Speaker B: I have this conversation with my kids all the time. Um, nothing too exciting. I think I'd bring like a Swiss army knife and some rope or something functional.

Speaker A: If you could travel anywhere in the world, time's not an issue, money's not an issue. Just go wherever you want to go. Where would you go?

Speaker B: Right now? I'd love to go to Japan. Um, and the question, it sort of changes if it's like a family or on my own. But I find it so I'm so curious what it's like there. It just seems like such an amazing, interesting place, but that's yet so different

Speaker A: from the U.S. uh, what's something you could eat every day of your life and never get bored of?

Speaker B: Chicken wings.

Speaker A: Lastly, we are celebrating 25 years at OneDigital of Building for better, uh, building for better with our clients, partners, teams. What's one way you could build for better, Plan to build for better, uh, as you finish out 20, 25.

Speaker B: So knock on wood, the business has really scaled a lot over the past few years. And with that has come a lot of new challenges we have to solve for our growing set of clients. Um, I like to think we're doing a very, very good job at that. And we're thinking trying to really indoctrinate this idea of the Four Seasons way of service, where it's a very service oriented business. Um, but as the business gets bigger and bigger, just keeping that Four Seasons mindset at the forefront and making sure that culturally everyone thinks of it that way and understands their job is to deliver amazing experiences for employees is, you know, our way of building better.

Speaker A: Awesome. Uh, thanks again, John, for joining us. I really do appreciate your time. Thanks to all of you tuning in. This has been another episode of Friends with Employee Benefits.