60: Special Episode: White House Fellows Program 2023-24

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: This is Fintech Cafe, a weekly podcast that takes place with a live audience. My name is Ambika Sharma and I'm a creator and co host of Fintech Cafe. This is episode 60 and I'm so delighted to bring you a special topic. Instead of featuring a fintech company like we usually do, today we're featuring an opportunity for all of us in financial services to serve at, uh, the highest levels of the federal government. What do I mean by that? The opportunity is the White House Fellows Program, a nonpartisan program that selects a cohort of 11 to 19Americans from all walks of life. For this conversation, we're joined by four former fellows who are Margarita Colmenares, Dave Green, Rob McFarlane, and Ajay Amlani. Other notable alumni of the program include the former Secretary of State and General Colin Powell, CNN's Sanjay Gupta, and current Deputy National Security Advisor for Cyber and Emerging Technology to President Biden, Ms. Anne Neuberger. I hope you find today's discussion on the White House Fellows inspiring and I hope it encourages you to apply the next class, the class of 2023. 2024 will begin in August 2023. However, you must apply for that program by January 6, 2023. So without further ado, let's speak next to our guest. So let's do our uh, intro. Ajay, should we start with you?

Speaker C: Sure. Happy to. So my name is Ajay um Amlani. Also people call me Ajay. My parents name me Ajay, so they can call me Ajay way on early in life. And I'm born and raised in Michigan, but I've been in the San Francisco Bay area for the last 20 years and it's been a great experience. I've really enjoyed living out here. It's been an exciting time in the world of fintech and came, uh, out here to actually help a company that was doing biometrically enabled payments. Worked in the world of loyalty for a little while, sold that company that I had started to Kroger, which is a big grocery chain. Served back with the DOD here while I've been in San Francisco. But a lot of those opportunities were really accelerated and brought to me through connections that I had made at the White House Fellowship program. So I'm happy to be able to speak about the program today.

Speaker B: And Ajay, one thing. What year were you a fellow?

Speaker C: 2003, 2004. So it was a really fun year. It was like sort of post 9, 11, a lot of changes. I happened to serve in the Department of Homeland Security in the first year right after 911 started. It was right after 911 DHS was started. And uh, so it was 180,000 person startup.

Speaker B: Lovely. Thank you. Margarita, over to you. Before you say anything, I have to say, Margarita, in my life, in the last two months, you've become very famous. I've watched almost all of your YouTube videos that are on the webinars that you've posted. So very excited to have you here. I feel that you're the face of the White House Fellowship. So over to you for your round of introduction.

Speaker D: May I start with. Oh, dear. Anyways, yes. My name is Margarita Colmanares and I'm the director of outreach and recruitment for the White House Fellows Program. I was a fellow in 1991, 92, and I was placed at the US Department of Education. But I want to add that my background is engineering, environmental sustainability, climate risk, and I intentionally went to the U.S. department of Education the year that I was placed. One of the reasons is I care deeply about stem. And at the time that I was picked as a White House Fellow, I was working for a major Fortune 10 corporation in Los Angeles. But I was also on leave to lead a national nonprofit, which is the largest Latino STEM organization in the country. And I am just so delighted to be here with you today and to be reaching your audience, which is not an audience that we normally get to engage with. So thank you for finding us and inviting us.

Speaker B: Certainly. Thank you. And you're based in also in California, right?

Speaker D: I am based in Sacramento, California, which is my hometown. But in between, I've lived in almost nearly 10 other places.

Speaker B: Nice, thank you. And Dave, over to you for your intro.

Speaker E: Thanks, Ambika. Um, David Moore. I am the. I'm the token English major on the call, so I will not be giving financial advice. I spent 20 years in the Air Force where I did the only thing English majors were able to do, which is become a fighter pilot. And I've served as a White house fellow in 1996, 97, and about seven years ago, I took over as the director of the Alumni association of White House Fellows. And so happy to talk about any details of the application process, the history of the program, or anything that might be of interest. Thanks so much.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you, Dave. And last but not least, Robert, my co host today.

Speaker F: Right.

Speaker G: Good evening. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to the call. My name is Robert McFarlane, but everybody except my parents call me Mac. I was a fellow in 2013, 2014. I was placed at the White House at the National Economic Council. And I think one of the coolest things about the fellowship is you get to meet people from all different industries that you meet may not get to work with. So I, like David, am, um, an active duty officer. I've been 22 years in the United States Navy and had been in for about 15 years. When I was a White House Fellow. I got to work with some amazing doctors and lawyers and school teachers and retired military and some local government officials, all in my class. And we were placed all over the executive branch of the federal government. So, looking forward to answering any questions from the audience today and telling you about this program, which has been so richly rewarding in my life.

Speaker D: Awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, thank you. So let's start first with, like, what is the program? How did it come about? Dave, you mentioned that you are helping with the White House Fellows Foundation. Could we have you explain a little bit about what is the program, how did it start, and if you could give us a background.

Speaker E: Absolutely. So the program was created in 1964 by President Lyndon Johnson. Uh, it was the brainchild of, uh, his, um, Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare, John Gardner. Uh, the idea behind the program was to bring young people from around the country to Washington for a year to learn at the highest levels. And then when they finished in Washington, they would go back to their communities and bring back what they had learned about Washington to their disciplines, to their careers, to their communities. The idea being to gain a double benefit. One, to bring smart people from around the country to Washington to capitalize on their expertise and insight, and then two, to take what they learned about Washington, D.C. working as a special assistant to a cabinet secretary or senior White House official, and take it back to their communities. That was the genesis of the program. We select 11 to 19 fellows in any given year. There's a little bit of wiggle room. I know Mac's class had only 12. My class had 18. The current class, I think, has 15. So it's small numbers, and there are typically a very large number of applicants. The application process is quite rigorous by design. It involves both, uh, written applications, including essays, and then a series of first regional interviews, uh, followed by national interviews. And then once a class has been selected, they return once again to Washington, D.C. who do a series of placement interviews across the, uh, executive branch to figure out the best match for where they're going to be working during, uh, the course of their fellowship year. I'm happy to answer, uh, any questions about any of those particulars, uh, as we go. Thanks.

Speaker B: Sure. So, in terms of questions, I already see there are some. I forgot to talk about the format. The first 40 minutes I'll just moderate the conversation and, and then in the last 20 minutes I will invite you up on stage. You can at that point ask your questions directly. You can also share your questions in the chat and I can read those questions or you can send them to me via uh, the messaging, the back channel and I can read those questions. So Dave, next question I have for you is about the placements. You mentioned that there's, the process is rigorous and it's in three rounds. There's regional nationals and placement. Let's start with the back like starting backward place placements. What is placement and what do you look for in that?

Speaker E: I would actually encourage the exact reverse of the approach because um, placement is something that occurs once you've already been selected. So if we could, I would suggest flipping it on its head and going the other way and saying the first step is really the written application and that's the part that's open and accepting applications right now. The written application, uh, when I filled out my application I spent a, uh, month on it. Not all day, every day, but for 30 days, about an hour a day, refining what I wanted to go into it. That will occur. The written applications will be due early in January. From there all of the applications will be read and evaluated by at least three White House Fellows and then scored. The President's Commission will then make a decision on who to select for regional interviews that will involve about one hundred and eight people, typically at uh, regional interviews around the country. And from there they will select 30 national finalists who will be evaluated over a three day period in June. And then from the national finalists, roughly half will be chosen, about 15 as I said. And they will then be brought back to Washington in July for their placement interviews. So that gives you sort of a sense of the flow and the timing. So it's almost a 10 month process from the time applicants begin the application until they uh, are actually selected and placed the placement. Now to your question about placement interviews. Once a White House Fellow is selected, they then come up with a dream sheet, if you will, of the places they would like to work. And the agencies and departments and White House offices also get a vote. And so they may say, well, you know, so when a fellow goes to interview at various departments, there may be some that they had on their list and some that they didn't. And what I always encourage people to do is because every placement is potentially fascinating to look for the place where you have the best rapport with the people. And some people like to be placed in an area where they have great depth and expertise. For example, a doctor might be interested in going into the, uh, Department of Health and Human Services, where someone with a deep financial background might be interested in the Treasury. Others use the opportunity to go into an area they're unfamiliar with as an opportunity to broaden their experience. And I think both approaches have great merit.

Speaker B: Marguerite, if I can ask you this question. As I was preparing for today's show, I spoke to former fellows as well. And one of them, actually, in a very peculiar manner, he described the program in a three legged stool. He mentioned that there is a placement component that Dave just spoke about. Second is the educational program and the third is a fellow cohort. That it was very peculiar that he, he spoke that way because to me, when I look at it from an outside in perspective, I see of it, I see this as mostly, you know, a placement as a primary experience. So can you talk to us holistically how the program is designed and meant to be?

Speaker D: I would say that that person, whoever it was, gave you a pretty accurate description. Um, being a Fellow is not just carrying out your duties as a White House Fellow as they are assigned to you that year, but also being part of a team of a cohort of a group that meets regularly, usually twice a week. And you have the opportunity to meet with leaders from business, from politics, from nonprofits, from uh. Sometimes the fellows actually drop the list of who they would like to meet and then invitations are extended. And these are informal off the record discussions with these leaders where basically you really can ask what's on your mind of these leaders, since it's off the record. The other part that is long lasting way after the fellowship is the relationships that you develop with other fellows from your class. And later as you become part of the Alumni association, you will start meeting alumni from across the 55 plus years that we've been around. So it's not unusual to forge relationships with someone who was in the program many decades before you or even these last few years. It's intended to create this fellowship amongst the fellows as well.

Speaker B: And is there also a domestic policy and international policy trip?

Speaker D: There usually is, but not always guaranteed, as I understand it. David, you may want to step in here. But as I understand, yeah, it's not guaranteed. But yes, many of us have gone on both domestic and international trips. For example, I'm going to share for me one of the highlights. My international trip was to the Ukraine and the Former Soviet Union. And as life happens sometimes the White House fellows is also described as a front road history. And the year that I became a fellow, I was in the Ukraine, uh, the same day. And the Ukraine was only six months old at the time. And if I may describe to you one of the government offices that we visited, they didn't even have their flags yet. I'm talking about their official flags. If you can picture two pieces of silk hand sewn together, yellow and blue, that was what they had in the government office, uh, to deem its, its official status. And that day is the day that the Rodney King riot started in America. And I was formerly from Los Angeles and I do remember feel wishing that I was back in the United States or maybe even back in Los Angeles, uh, trying to do something. I felt, I felt so far away at that moment in time. But the reason I share this story is because I didn't real, I didn't know that my principal, because that's one thing we haven't talked about. When you become a White House Fellow, you get assigned to a principal who is usually the secretary of a cabinet agency or a Deputy secretary or a high ranking official in the White House. In my particular year I was assigned to the Deputy Secretary of Education. His name was David Kearns. He was the former CEO of Xerox ah, Corporation and unbeholding to me. When I returned he was named co chair of the economic recovery effort for Los Angeles along with uh, the Deputy Secretary at hud. And so that became my portfolio. And so I did in fact end up back in my adopted hometown at the time, Los Angeles, trying to cut the red tape if you will. That was the whole purpose of that executive order was to bring fast and speedy economic recovery to Los Angeles. Wow.

Speaker B: Meant to be, huh? Serendipity.

Speaker D: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I also want to ask Rob or. Yeah, Rob, right. You go by Rob, my co host. Rob, if you could tell us how did you hear about the program? You come from the military? Is it something that you had familiarity with or how did you learn about the White House fellows program?

Speaker G: Uh, thank you, that's a great question. I actually read Colin Powell's book My American Journey and you know, as a young aspiring military officer looking up to who was the most senior officer in the United States military at the time, he didn't come from m a prestigious background, he didn't go to an Ivy League school. And so I was reading his biography and there's a chapter dedicated to his time as a White House Fellow And I was like, man, this is a very interesting program. And from his time in the Reagan White House, he actually ended up becoming National Security Advisor. And from the fellowship led to the amazing career that we all know that culminated with him being Secretary of State. And that kind of put the program on my radar. And then once I was aware of it, I was able to talk to different mentors and senior officers and people that I looked up to in the Navy and started to notice on their resumes and started to notice other people who had been fellows and everyone that I talk to, which I hope is a tradition we can maintain. For those on the call, you know, you reach out to them, they're happy to share, all of the information is available. And that's what kind of set me up to apply to be a White House Fellow.

Speaker B: And could you remind me, what year were you a White House Fellow?

Speaker G: I uh, was 2013, 2014. So I had the privilege of working in the Obama White House at the National Economic Council. And you know, my portfolio included worship, education and employment opportunities for veterans. And we actually launched the first website, the first government controlled website after the healthcare website kind of fiasco. So the fact that most of you probably don't know that is a good thing. That means the launch was uh, successful and kind of went under the radar.

Speaker B: Yes, we have no idea about that.

Speaker C: Perfect.

Speaker G: The right communities knew and we stayed off the headlines. That was our goal.

Speaker B: Lovely. Dave, I want to go back to you in terms of the program. One question I haven't asked and I must ask is what is the selection criteria? What are must have and what are ideals to strive for as we put together this application?

Speaker H: Mhm.

Speaker E: Mhm. Yeah, that's a, that is very important question to ask and one that doesn't have a single answer. You know, some basic criteria, you must be a US citizen, you must have completed your undergraduate degree at least. And they're looking for people who have demonstrated leadership earlier in their career and are, and show promise of future leadership as well. But beyond those sort of, you know, basic elements, they've left it very wide open. Somebody mentioned already, you know, the fact that they had, you know, doctors and teachers and you know, in my class we had a firefighter. And so the spectrum of backgrounds and career fields that are brought together in a White House Fellows class are very wide ranging. It's not as though there's no pre cut cookie cutter approach to it, if you will. Everyone is evaluated individually on the basis of their strengths and what they bring. I would say probably if, uh, and many people consider applying for the fellowship for many years before they actually submit an application. And I think everyone is usually pretty confident about their work experience and what they've done in their career field, and they're generally very strong. But the other component, the other element that the fellowship is looking for is your community service. And again, uh, that can be as wide ranging, uh, as the career fields that come to the fellowship. So, you know, some people do, you know, start nonprofits or some, you know, might do work with charities or work with the homeless or, you know, or coach, you know, youth basketball. I mean, there's again, nothing said in terms of the particulars of what you must do other than that you also, in addition to having a strong career, that you have a strong community service commitment as a citizen. And I think those are probably the two things that if you can bring those two together, you're going to be a competitive candidate.

Speaker B: And is there an age limit? Like, must one be not more than 40 years old?

Speaker E: So, again, a good question. Uh, originally, when the executive order was created in 1964, there was an age limit. I believe it was something like 22 to 36 or maybe 34. But during the Carter administration, they actually removed the age restriction. And so technically there is not a particular ceiling in terms of age. However, everything about the program is designed for people early in their careers to enhance their ability to lead in the future. And so I think in the typical age vote, White House fellow is usually about 34ish. So they've got, you know, uh, some experience under their belt. In my class, we had two people in their 40s. I think that was probably unusual. Most everyone else was either in their 20s or their 30s. I've never seen a White House fellow who was in their 50s. I think early 40s is probably about the latest I've ever seen someone selected.

Speaker B: So to sum it up, every year it's a nonpartisan program. Every year a class of a cohort of 11 to 19 is selected and placements are done. It could be mutual, kind of like a matching program for residency. However, I and others, whoever is interested in applying, we shouldn't expect to get US treasury, even though we come from the financial services.

Speaker D: Right?

Speaker E: Uh, that's exactly right. If you make it through the selection process, then I tell people, you know, wherever you want to go, you know, wherever you go will be an amazing opportunity. I do know that with the current class, that I believe all of them received either their first or second choice. When it came time for their placement. So I know that they were, uh, very pleased. And by the way, not every agency or department offers a placement every year. Some years, you know, uh, I would say typically there are about twice as many opportunities for placement as there are Fellows selected. So usually the agencies are very much scrambling trying to get a Fellow. And that's sort of an interesting sort of competition that works to the benefit of the fellows. So it's that those placement interviews are very different from the selection interviews that precede them as a result.

Speaker B: And if selected, the program starts in September and runs until August of this following year. Right.

Speaker E: It actually starts in late August because they do about a week and a half of orientation in late August so that people can start in their placements right after Labor Day each year.

Speaker B: And it is a paid program.

Speaker E: It is indeed. It is paid at rate of, I believe is GS14 step three. So you can look that up on the Google and find out what that is. It might represent a pay cut for some, probably a pay raise for others. And for active duty military, they're paid according to their rank.

Speaker B: Great. I want to now next go to Ajay. Ajay, if you could also tell us about your experience. You mentioned that you worked with the Department of homeland security back in 0, uh3.04. How did that, how did you end up, I guess at that placement and subsequently how have you leveraged your experience to now? I believe you are an entrepreneur yourself and you're based in the Bay Area. So just curious how the two mesh together.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. I mean, I've always, I've always loved my country. I've always wanted to serve. I've always wanted to do something through my whole life. I even thought about, you know, when I was going to undergrad, applying for West Point. But I didn't know a congressperson to be able to sign a letter for me. You know, I thought about a lot of different opportunities through my life. And I always felt like if I, if I was ever provided the opportunity to do something for my country, I would, I would jump at the chance to do it regardless of politics, regardless of administration. It really just doesn't matter to me. To me, it's, it's about, it's about being able to wake up in the morning thinking, how do I make the world a better place? And there's no better way to do that and get paid for it than government. So I had found out about the program, actually a childhood friend of mine named Sanjay Gupta, he, he was a few years older than me.

Speaker A: But he.

Speaker C: He had the opportunity to be able to apply and get the program where he worked for, actually, Hillary Clinton when she was first lady, and he worked on reforming Medicare. He went on to become the chief medical correspondent of CNN through another White House fellow that he had met during the program named Tom Johnson, who was the CEO of cnn, uh, afterwards. And then. So that it was in the back of my mind, and then through the years, I realized I just wasn't ready. I was kind of a schmuck. I went to undergrad. I kind of had a few jobs here and there, and I did some successful stuff in my career. And then one day I had a boss that was a White House fellow randomly, and he sort of raised it up to me, and he showed me the application. I looked at it. I was like, my jaw just hit the floor. I didn't have enough stuff to be able to fill out on this application like all this. I served in nonprofits before, but really just as a normal volunteer. I never really had a leadership experience to talk about. And so I thought about it for a little while, and I'm like, you know what? That actually would be kind of fun to do some leadership experience within a nonprofit. So I served on a few boards of nonprofits, had some successful moments in my career where I helped take a company public. And all of a sudden, I took a look at the application again. I was like, you know what? I actually have stuff that I can fill out in this application now. And so I asked John, and I'm like. And he's like, yeah, I'd be supportive if you wanted to try for it. So I did it. And, uh, some of the companies that I had worked with before were in the freight transportation space. So after I'd made it through the rounds of interviews to become a White House fellow, you know, uh, obviously watching what happened on 911 on TV, I thought, if there would ever be a chance for me to do anything in this country to help it, this would be the time. So I heavily prioritized Homeland Security efforts, and I was very fortunate to be able to be picked for the Department of Homeland Security, which was, at the time, in its first year. The Secretary of Homeland Security had just come over from the state of Pennsylvania, where he had served as governor, to become a advisor to the President for Homeland Security. And he became the first Department of Homeland Security secretary. And so I ended up in his office, and, uh, he didn't see me for the first three or four days. And then all of a sudden it became three or four weeks. And then all of a sudden, I started timing my bathroom breaks to actually be in the bathroom at the same time that he was in the bathroom, which sounds kind of creepy. But then he asked me who I was, and I told him I'm his White House fellow. And he's like, I have a White House fellow? I didn't even know I had a White House fellow. Because it's normal startup life is you just kind of run and try to make decisions on the fly. And he didn't really understand it until all of a sudden he did. And he dragged me along with everything that he did, everything from G8 negotiations, UN negotiations, to international trips. And it just became an incredible year that just kind of woke my mind up. And then in parallel, the experience the educational program provides is also incredible. We spent a week talking to every national security advisor since President Nixon. We spent a week spending some time on an aircraft carrier, flying out to the aircraft carrier, doing a tailhook landing and a catapult takeoff and sleeping on the ship with the crew and living like a sailor. We spent some time training with sniper rifles to understand how hard it is to shoot something that's a thousand m. Thousand yards away. And, uh, it just gave me a thorough appreciation of how things get done in government and how important it is to be able to continue to maintain a bridge between the sector that you represent, which for me is definitely more the business technology sector, and government. And it's never been more apparent than it is today. If you look at all of the news about what's happening within data media, online, Facebook, all the fintech stuff happening around FTX and its bankruptcy, there needs to be proper coordination between the commercial world and government on an ongoing basis. And I've always prided myself on being an ongoing bridge. You know, it's a fellowship for life, it's not a fellowship for that year. And so continuing through that process, I actually helped serve in the Department of Defense for a few years to help start up its first ever DoD base in Silicon Valley, focused on commercial technology and cybersecurity and robotics and tapping into the venture capital firms here in Silicon Valley, working for the secretary. And that was, uh, over a decade after my White House fellowship. So I think it's. It's a fellowship for life. And the friendships that I was able to gain from that have helped to launch, you know, new opportunities for me commercially, like starting clear the airport security fast line and my company U technology that I sold. And then my latest ventures, where you probably read about the mobile driver's license work that's happening around the country with Apple Wallet and Google Wallet, where you can now have, uh, an actual digital driver's license loaded into your mobile wallet. That's happening kind of state by state by state right now. So I've been behind those efforts. So it's been fun. It's been giving me the confidence that I think I needed to take those really ambitious moves in my career and try to do things that are really meaningful.

Speaker B: You said so much there, I don't know where to start. I'm still stuck on the fact that Sanjay Gupta was your childhood friend. Do you think you have beat him in life by now, given all that you've accomplished?

Speaker C: You know, he's got, he's, he's got his successful kids, I've got my successful kids. Like, it's kind of, you know, he's a wonderful guy. I don't, I have not saved lives the way he has, especially in war torn areas. You know, it's, I don't think that there's ever a way to really beat Sanjay in what he does. He's always going to be a step above normal carbon based life forms. But I think he, he is an incredible person, an incredible soul. And that's what I mean. It's just, it's, it's, it's a feeling that I think people have that help them to decide whether or not to apply. And that feeling is, you know, am I here on this earth to do something? And, uh, I think that's an important feeling, like something more than what I'm doing right now. And that feeling alone can provide you with enough adrenaline and enough momentum and fuel to get you into the application process and get you through into the fellowship.

Speaker D: Ambika, I'd like to add something. When Sanjay Gupta applied to become a Fellow, he did not think he was going to get picked. And that sentiment is something that many of us feel as when we first look at the application, when we're first thinking about applying. It's not uncommon to feel that. And his story, Sanjay Gupta's story and the White House fellowship is recorded in an interview and it's one of the videos in our YouTube channel. So anyone who's interested can go take a look at it. And you can hear Sanjay in his own words say, I didn't think I was going to get picked.

Speaker B: We have about three minutes for the moderate session, and then I would like to open to the audience. So maybe the last question that I have for you all is, what is that one piece of advice you have for us, or put differently, what is that one piece of advice you wish somebody had given to you as you were pursuing writing your application?

Speaker E: So this is David. I'll give you one piece of advice. Anybody who is interested in applying this cycle should join us for our webinar tomorrow night at, uh, 8:00pm Eastern. And you can find the link on our website, whff.org we're gonna several of us, Margarita and I and some others are going to be talking about demystifying the written application for the White House Fellows Program. And this is where we will actually do a deep dive into talking about the essays, talking about how to approach the application. And I think, Mac, I don't remember if you're on that tomorrow as well, but bottom line is we look forward to talking with you. And that would be my advice.

Speaker G: Yeah, and I'll jump in. I think my piece of advice. And Margarita hit on this. And I think you've heard it as a theme. If this is something leadership and national service is something that appeals to you, and you look into the program and you think that this is the right program for you, take that leap of faith. There are many people who've applied once and perhaps weren't successful and came back and applied again. And this is don't count yourself out. Reach out. Learn about the program. And if this is something that appeals to you, then do that and you can learn more about it. And you can also sign up for our mailing list so you stay connected to things like the webinar. Sometimes we have outreach events all over the country, and you can do that on our website, whff.org that's whitehousefellowsfoundation.org whff.org

Speaker D: Amica this is Margarita. So that website will become your best friend if you do decide to apply to the program. The website did not exist four years ago, and it's an effort and a recognition on our part that we wanted to raise awareness of what the White House Fellows Program is. And so we created this website with a lot of love. Um, you know, for everyone to go and look at. There is a ton of information there. Everything from the things we've discussed here as far as the schedule, the process, even the key questions that are going to be on the essays. The difference is that right now, because it's November 1st, the application is live, so you can actually go look at the application online. There's videos, there's a list, there's a whole gallery of notable alumni. There's class pictures from every year. So it really can be a deep dive for anyone who's interested in applying to the program.

Speaker B: Yes. And I have pinned the link to tomorrow's webinar. You can sign up. I've also shared that link in the chat, so you can please feel free to sign up. And I think it's tomorrow evening, if I'm not mistaken, right, Margarita?

Speaker D: Yes, that's correct.

Speaker B: Okay, wonderful. So we have about 19 minutes. I would love to invite the audience now on stage. For those who are interested in coming up, there is a, an icon. It's like a hand raise. It's on the bottom right. If you click on that, technically Rob and I can bring you on stage. So if you want to click on that, join us on stage. Or you can leave us your questions in the public chat and I'll read it, or you can send it to me via the backchannel. And Elaine, she has one question. Elaine is a regular. She and I used to work at SoFi. She works for a crypto company now. And she's asking, do folks from. With crypto background, is this an ideal background for a White House?

Speaker E: This is David. I can say that the president of our board, one of, uh, Max classmates, Carol Lapointe, is, has a deep background in autonomous systems, blockchain and crypto. And so, yes, indeed, that's obviously a very cutting edge career field and I think one very relevant to, uh, government.

Speaker B: Elaine, we need help with policy when it comes to crypto, so maybe you can help with this.

Speaker H: That.

Speaker B: Okay, so another question again, this one's from Dana and she's asking about age. I guess you mentioned, Dave, that the average age was 34 ish. What if you are. There is a higher difference variance. What if you're 44? I'm not sure. 54. Should you not apply? What's your advice there?

Speaker E: Uh, you can apply, of course. There's nothing prohibiting you from applying. I think I would also encourage you, if you know of people, you know, if someone is in their 50s, I think, uh, their role would probably be more impactful in terms of recruiting people that they know and that they've worked with to apply for the program. So in serving in a mentoring role, if you will, and, and helping encourage young leaders to apply for the program.

Speaker B: Okay. And James, welcome. If you want to introduce yourself and then ask your question.

Speaker C: Yep. Hi, my name is James Sontag. Thank you everybody for joining. Uh, it might be a little, little too long of this question for everybody to answer, but the question is what kind of policy recommendation did you guys make?

Speaker B: Oh, before somebody answers, can I just add more context? There are six essays as part of the application process. And one of the essays, again the word I will use is, is intriguing. And that is a policy memorandum. You must write a 500 word policy memorandum suggesting whatever you think should be presented in front of the President. So that's what the question is about. Dave, if you can provide some guidance.

Speaker E: I'm actually on point to talk about this tomorrow night on our webinar about demystifying the application. I will say that the point of the essay is to make sure that you're thinking about the kinds of decisions the President needs to make and the kinds of advice that you would be giving. Because in selecting White House fellows very intentionally looking for people that they would trust to be advisors, special assistants and advisors to senior government officials. And so what I'll, uh, give you, you know, you asked the question, what did we write about? My suggestion was to President Clinton. Back in 1996, we had just completed the Agreed Framework with North Korea. And a lot of the countries that had been had pledged to ship fuel oil to North Korea to encourage them to shut down their light water reactors were backsliding. Frankly, the North Koreans were more compliant with the, uh, terms of the agreement than a lot of our partner nations. And my policy proposal was because we had just negotiated the Dayton Accords, I recommended that President Clinton encourage some of the member states of the European Union to put forward fuel to help bolster the Agreed Framework with North Korea, since we had just committed significant resources to Europe. And so the point being, I was trying to find an issue that had encompassed the global community. And I guess my advice when writing the essay is if what you're proposing could be addressed by a cabinet secretary, like, you know, medical policy or financial policy or an education policy. If that secretary alone could make the decision and do what you're proposing, then it's not appropriate or it's not a presidential level recommendation. And so figuring out what that sweet spot is, I think that's one of the most important elements of the application. And the essay, uh, that certainly draws the most questions during the interview process. Hope that's helpful.

Speaker H: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker B: Thanks. James Gravinder, we finally have you on stage. Welcome.

Speaker A: Hey Ambika. What a great room. Um, am I audible? Can you hear me?

Speaker B: Yes, sir.

Speaker A: So my question is, as a father of two daughters, 9 year and 13 year old, and my 13 year old just became president of her school, what would your message be to young Girls who want to make it, they have some interest, but I know it may be a little too much for them to join the webinar tomorrow, but any message for, for them. So thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker D: This is Margarita. Let me, let me share a couple of things. Like your daughter, your 13 year old. As a teenager, I started organizing clubs and events without realizing that actually what I was doing is leadership development. And so if your daughter is already inclined to do these things, I think she's going to find in the long run, when she is ready to apply, she's going to be very ready to apply. So it's not that it's any special advice, except that when you give service to others, which is, which is part of what I was doing at that time because I grew up in that kind of household, I became a person who had to organize and lead many people who were much older than me. And in the end that ended up serving as a base for further leadership opportunities that I took later on in life. So it is about consistency, though. In my particular case, when I applied, I was exactly 34 years old and I had been working in my career by then for 10 years. But in my particular case, I had an equal number of 10 years, a decade of working on STEM related issues with a nonprofit organization. So I had like these two parallel tracks in my life. And I would just recommend to your daughter to continue to uncover her interests, her passions, and lead those efforts amongst her peers.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you, Margarita. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Ambeka.

Speaker B: Thanks, Gurivinder. And Mr. M. Gil Yehuda, welcome.

Speaker F: Thank you. This is a fantastic show and I really want to thank you for inviting me and for having such fascinating hosts. You know, I'll tell you, my question is more just of an intrigue, you know, for the, for the, you know, millions of Americans who aren't in the White House. Our impression of what goes on there is sometimes shaped by television shows like, you know, the West Wing or, uh, Veep. But for you who were in and see, is it more like the West Wing? Is it more like Veep? What don't we know? Or what surprise? Or I should say maybe ask it this way. What surprised you most as you were inside that most of us wouldn't have understood just how, uh, well, it works or how interesting things work on the inside.

Speaker E: Your best day as a White House fellow is like any episode of the West Wing. Your worst day as a White House fellow is like any episode of Veep.

Speaker G: What a great question. I really love that question. I will tell you a couple of things that come to mind as you ask that a group of really hardworking, well intended people who, in my experience my year there were really about taking care of the nation's business. Even though there may have been a lot of, you know, kind of politics in the air, the people that are actually doing the policymaking are kind of not operating in that level. One surprise that I took away was the role that interns play. College interns come through the White House in three classes and the productivity of the White House kind of drops very swiftly in between those classes when the interns aren't there to keep things going. So interns at college level, and some of them are graduate students, play a very important role, but just really good, hard working people. And I was surprised. I was in, uh, a Democratic administration and there were Republicans on staff and it just didn't, it wasn't really an issue as they went about the nation's business.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I, I could probably say that, you know, if you've worked in White, one White House, you probably only know one White House. Like, they're, they're, they're all different. They take on a shape form culture around the leader and around the staff that they hire. In terms of how things are getting done. Things that are surprising are that they're, you know, there's, there's not really one person that can get any one thing done. If you think about the President, United States, there's enough checks and balances in place across Congress, across funding, across different organizations that even the president can't, you know, just sign on the dotted line for a lot of different initiatives and get, get things done. It's funny, uh, as part of the White House fellowship, our regional trip was to New York, one of ours, and we met Mayor Bloomberg at the time and we asked him, you know, why, why don't you run for president, sir? Like, you would be a perfect candidate. He's like, listen, man, like, uh, if I, if I wanted garbage picked up right now in the next 10 minutes on 47th and 5th Avenue, I could call somebody and it'll get done. As President of the United States, I literally have less power than I do right now as mayor of the greatest city on this earth. It was an interesting, it was an interesting takeaway from that, which is the shows don't really get it. They obviously want to dramatize it. They want to create characters. They want to create really powerful characters that can get a lot of different things done. Press likes to feed off of that because they like to create storylines and all kinds of other things. But I'll tell you, it's fun to listen to the press and kind of read about people pontificating on it. But it's sort of like when you watch ESPN and you listen to the analysts talk about the game. You know, they would give anything to be on the field as opposed to being in their office talking about the game. And I think from that perspective, it's a lot more fun to witness it when you're part of the game, when you're in the office, you know, when you're. You're actually doing those things. I think that's where I try to tell my kids, going back to the prior question from Govinder, I think, you know, I try to tell my kids, like, be doers and doers do make mistakes, but if you're a doer, you know, you're going to continue to kind of strive and learn lessons that a lot of people don't learn if you're not, you know, on the field playing.

Speaker B: Well said, uh, bias to action. Gil and I talk about that often. Gil, as always, you asked a beautiful question, so thank you for joining us. Sean, if you want to go next.

Speaker I: Oh, okay. I, uh. Well, hello, everybody. I submitted as a, as a question in there. I mean, it wasn't, you know, my, my biggest question is, as many people have had an interesting journey in life and, you know, attended college, had, uh, some unfortunate things happen, and I shared with Ambika, uh, had to. Had to stop. You know, I played college athlete, moving along, a lot of good things happening and injury. And before you know it, like, I lost my mom to cancer, had to stop, go to, you know, get a real job. And, you know, I progressed pretty fast, you know, very, you know, at a young age, I found myself in a leadership role pretty young, progressed, fell into a banking role, ran a, uh, you know, a couple of different bank branches. And, you know, I did really well in the financial world, you know, which shockingly, without a. Without a college degree, so, you know, that's never been something to really hold me back. You know, I'm now, uh, you know, entrepreneur, have my own company, growing that with a. With a friend of mine. So, you know, looking at this program definitely seems really exciting. Very, very interesting, you know, prestigious. But, you know, that's, you know, I'm not one to ever lie on an application. So, you know, I was actually going through it while we were on the call, and I was like, oh, okay. This undergrad thing is a hard stop. So, you know, I'm just. My biggest question is, is that ever going to change? Has that been up on the table or do I need to just suck it up and go back and finish? So I check the box, so to speak.

Speaker E: So this is David. I think I can address that. It has not been a requirement forever to have an undergraduate degree. It, uh, was something that was implemented, I believe, during the late Obama administration, but I'm not sure exactly when it was added to the requirements. That said, there is a lot of discussion and I think it might be an interesting test case to say, you know, to request, to uh, make a request for an exception to policy and say, listen, because, you know, you raised some great points. Hey, I've started companies, I've been super successful, but I never got the undergraduate degree. I'd like to, you know, at least be given the opportunity to submit an application for your consideration. The worst they can do is say no, but they might just say yes.

Speaker I: Yeah, that would be awesome.

Speaker D: So David, this is Margarita. I don't know exactly when that requirement was added, but in the 1990s when I applied, I believe it was there. But to your point, I do think that we need to. We're looking for leaders. We're looking for leaders in their communities who can come to Washington and see governance at the highest levels and take that information and if they go back to where they came from, use it for good. Mhm.

Speaker B: So Sean, apply.

Speaker E: I sure will.

Speaker B: Mhm. Okay, so we have three minutes and we have two more questions. Oh, go ahead, save.

Speaker E: No, I was just going to say, Sean, join us tomorrow. You'll actually have the director of the President's Commission, Rose Svela, on the webinar tomorrow night. And that might be a great question to pose to her because she is the person who would actually make a determination on whether or not to grant an exception.

Speaker I: Awesome.

Speaker B: Oh great. Thank you. Michelle, welcome. It's been a while. If you want to introduce yourself and ask your question.

Speaker H: Yes, it has been. I'm glad to see you. Still on Clubhouse. I am Michelle, um, Hayward. I run an early stage tech startup where we focus on connecting black, Latina and indigenous women who are experienced scientists, engineers and technology professionals to management roles. I run my startup out of rural South Carolina where I do not have access to broadband Internet or high speed Internet like many of HBCUs as well as about 16% of Americans who live in rural areas. I would policy around high speed Internet and access to job opportunities via the Internet, which is still part of workforce development. Are we seeing policies is at an opportunity to discuss or present in this type of what I want to say application process or fellowship program.

Speaker E: I think, I think you sounds like you've got a policy proposal ready to put forward. I would highly encourage it.

Speaker C: Yeah, certainly, uh, I'd agree with you David. I think that's a wonderful one to propose. I think also just things to keep in mind as you're proposing that do some research on some of the other policies that are in place already on the high speed Internet world, especially to rural areas. There's a lot happening with some satellite companies and some funding to be able to be provided to be able to bring that high speed Internet. So definitely arm yourself with that information and data and research it and put a well thought through proposal together. I think it'd be a great one.

Speaker D: So Michelle, your organization is music to my ears. I would like to share with you that in the 1990s, this was around 1903, there was an office of Technology, I ah, may have the name not quite right that was created at the US Department of Education. Their initial task was to start not high speed Internet, but the Internet as much as possible throughout the country. There is some history there. I cannot at this moment remember the person's name who headed that office, but she was on the same floor as me when I went back a second time, which is the other thing I wanted to add. Many of us do leave right after fellowship and we go back to where we came from, but others do stay on. In my case I did leave and I went back to Los Angeles and then uh, got an assignment out of the country. A year later Clinton was elected and I was invited to come back to the White House and I ended up going to the same U.S. department of Education. So a little unusual uh, that I ended up twice at the same U.S. department cabinet agency.

Speaker B: Great, thank you. Ryan. Hi. Looks like you just downloaded the app, so welcome aboard. You'll have to unmute yourself. There's a button on the bottom right. While you do that, I'll read a question that came in the chat. It's from Isaac and I know he's definitely consider applying. He says can we get a sense of what percent of the clothes class is working parents. And I know Isaac well, he has two little kids. So if you could comment on that.

Speaker E: This is David. Um, it varies of course from class to class, but I would say there are several people in the current class who have young children and in some cases they are women who have been selected as fellows with young children and uh, and spouses or in one case a co parent who is helping to support them during the fellowship year. So I would say, uh, it's not an exact number, it varies class to class, but probably from 20% to 50%.

Speaker B: And everyone has to move to Washington D.C. for the duration of their one year fellowship, right?

Speaker E: Affirmative.

Speaker B: Okay, wonderful. So I think this is the end. So if we can have just like last comment from you all. Margarita, Dave, Rob, Ajay, uh, in terms of any parting words I did leave the call to action is come join for an in depth webinar tomorrow demystifying the White House Fellowship process. So I did link that. It's pinned at the top and it's also added to the chat. But any advice from you in terms of the White House Fellowship program?

Speaker D: So all of our efforts, our recruiting effort, our national recruiting effort is geared towards raising awareness of this program because I can't tell you how many people I've met later in life who are very accomplished and when I ask them, why didn't you apply to the program? The answer is usually I didn't know. And so we are seeking, we want you to apply if you believe that this is a good fit for you, but we also want you to help us spread the word. Because until we do that, our whole purpose is to increase the number of persons coming in the pipeline at the beginning and being aware of this program. So I just encourage all of you to take a really serious look at this program. I know we didn't quite get into this part. Many of the fellows after the fellowship have gone on to be entrepreneurs. I myself was part of two startups in the solar energy space. But there's at least I know of one person last year who was an entrepreneur like many of you on this call and she ended up coming to become a White House Fellow. So it's possible to do it before or after and we just really seriously hope that you will consider us as something that you want to put in your bucket list.

Speaker B: Thank you. Rob, should we go to you next, your parting advice?

Speaker G: I think that was fantastic. I'll let Margarita have uh, the last word. Thank you so much for inviting me and it was an excellent conversation with everyone.

Speaker B: Thank you. Rob. I think Ajay, ah, had to drop. So Dave, anything from you?

Speaker E: I just want to say I love Dajay's description of the difference of being on the field versus on the sidelines talking about the game. I've never heard it described quite that way and I think it really summed up what it is to get an opportunity to be a White House Fellow. It is not learning about what's going on. It's about participating in what's going on. It's about being at the table with some amazing leaders and seeing how the decision making process in Washington, in the executive branch actually works. And so I just. So, Ajay, if you're still on. Terrific description, I'm going to use that in the future.

Speaker C: I really like that it's trademark, man. I'm sorry. Uh, so, you know, I cover all my legal bases before I drop phrases in public, but I'd say, you know, the application process on its own is a fantastic experience and it's quite. It forces you to really about yourself and your own goals and where you want to be in life. You know, I walked away from having submitted my application thinking, if I don't get to the interviews, I've already had a one, an amazing experience being able to put together this application. I walked away from the regional interviews thinking, if I don't move on to the nationals, I've already had an amazing experience and I've met just incredible people. I walked away from the nationals thinking, oh, my God, this has been the most incredible experience in my whole life ever. Getting flown out to Annapolis and seeing, you know, all of these incredible people and, uh, thinking about all of these different aspects of who I might want to be in my life. And then I got the fellowship. So no matter what, the application process is on its own. Just such an incredible experience to be able to go through. I'd encourage, uh, anybody and everyone to do it. And when you do it, think audaciously. Right? Like, the White House fellowship is not set up for people to just have these goals that you're trained through your whole life to have in your life, which are, you know, reasonable, achievable, you know, realistic goals that you can set in front of yourself. Bring some audacious goals to the table, because that's what White House fellow people and screeners want to see out of an application. They want to see somebody that has some audacious goals and wants to create and do and take the fellowship and be able to continue to participate, you know, with very big opportunities to create positive change for the future. So that in itself is quite a eye opening experience because you never really are taught that through your whole life and this is the first time that you, you'll be forced to think that way.

Speaker B: Lovely. Thank you so much, Ajay. Uh, I agree with Dave. You are very eloquent and we will be creating a few audio clips of this conversation tonight to spread the word. So I really appreciate you all a serving during as a White House Fellow and then also volunteering your time today and joining us for this discussion. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And again for those who missed some parts of the conversation, we'll have this uploaded by the end of today on all major podcasting platform and then tomorrow please join the conversation. Continue the conversation further at the webinar which is taking place on Zoom. Our regular show will be back tomorrow Wednesday at 5pm and we will be discussing open source software within the financial services space. So we'll be joined by the Executive Director of Finos for a conversation on Open Source in fintech. So until then, I wish you good evening and I hope that you apply to the White House Fellowship Program. Thank you. That's all for today. Thank you for listening. If you like the discussion, we welcome you to join us during our live shows every Wednesday at 5pm Pacific on Clubhouse. We'd be delighted to have you there. You can also find other episodes on all major podcasting platforms such as Spotify, Apple, Google, Audible. Wherever you get your podcast, we'd appreciate if you could leave us a review and let us know how we're doing until next week. Be safe. Thank you.