Hidden in Plain Sight - Part 1

Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of fintech Brews. Um, I'm Nikki Rode and I am so grateful to be here with a couple of very special guests that are going to take us through a little bit of a different spin than some of the things we talk about on FinTech Brews. So buckle up. This is going to be a wonderful episode. So I'll start by introducing our guests today, Becky and Alyssa. Becky, you've been with us before, so why don't you kick it off?

Speaker B: Yeah. Becky Rasmussen, I'm with Call to Freedom. We're a local organization, nonprofit, that provides supportive services to those that have been victimized by either sex, labor, or commercial sexual exploitation. And we opened our doors in January of 2016 and never did I think that we would see the need that we see today. We've had 11, 1,178 individuals walk through the doors of Call to Freedom since we opened. The first two years, we actually had strictly volunteers, and our first paid staff happened in November of 2017. And we have 28 full time employees today and a home that actually provides, um, support to women and their children that are coming out of trafficking situations. So it's been a journey, but I'm really excited to be here today to have this conversation because it needs to happen.

Speaker A: You're exactly right. And again, this is the second time you've been on fintech Brews. First just kind of drawing the awareness in general. But today you've brought somebody very special along, um, that we are excited to spend the majority of time talking to. Alyssa, will you introduce yourself?

Speaker C: Yes. Thank you very much and thank you, Becky, for having me here today. Uh, it's been really wonderful. My name is Elisa Gabiorchik and I'm the founder and CEO of Cyber Night Watch. And what we do is we train, uh, we raise awareness, we educate, we research and we assist on investigations on human trafficking as well as child sexual abuse material. And what we like to do is reveal what's hidden in the shadows or what's hidden in the dark. So. So we're not, uh, afraid to have those uncomfortable conversations. We're not afraid to go into the darkness and bring it out and, uh, combat it with all our efforts. Uh, but we just want to make sure that our communities are safeguarded from the threats that are out there that we may not see, uh, visually every day.

Speaker A: Thank you for that. And you had shared a little bit with the central payment staff here, um, just before this recording about some of the training that you've been through and some of your credentials and some of the activities that you're involved in. Ah, will you talk a little bit about that training as well as your global activities that you're doing?

Speaker C: Yes. So I started off in the U.S. assisting, uh, on operations on a local and a federal level. And then I moved outward, um, internationally. So I work actually around the world. Uh, I assist on operations, provide and advise on different trends, especially on Internet facilitated human trafficking. And that could be everything from training organizations, partnering with them, developing technologies, uh, and researching on what's next and what's coming and what's already here. So I ha. I'm a certified human trafficking investigator, cryptocurrency investigator, human rights consultant. I am on a lot of memberships, uh, uh, Interpol's Human Trafficking Expert Group. I'm also on the osce, uh, Survivors of Trafficking Advisory Council, uh, and many more. Uh, I'm heavily involved, but mostly on like the overall global problem aspect than just the local community. Uh, however, I was born and raised in Billings, Montana, so I'm really happy to be here in South Dakota, very close to home. I feel like I am home. Um, um, so it's been a complete honor and I, I love giving back to the communities that basically raised me.

Speaker A: So that's amazing. I appreciate that so much. And you guys have an interesting story on how you even met to begin with, because I think about a local, very passionate, intentional anti human trafficking organization combined with, um, all of your skills and training in the nonprofit that you have founded. How did you guys meet?

Speaker B: So, you know, I find this funny because we met in Ohio, um, and we actually met at an event and we were in the bathroom and we struck up a conversation and it was great because I was intrigued with the work that Cyber Night Watch was doing and uh, Alicia and her team. And so I just thought, you know, we need to do more of this. We need to have a better understanding here. Um, not only in South Dakota, on a regional, as a United States, to understand what is happening on the Dark Web and the importance of not only protecting our children, but how do we identify. And so we struck up this awesome conversation which led to us exchanging cards. And here you are today, um, in South Dakota doing a few events and trainings for us.

Speaker C: Definitely. No, it's probably, it's been the biggest honor being able to partner with Call to Freedom as well as get to know Becky and her team. Uh, a major part that is, it's also with the work that I do on assisting law enforcement. It's also Ensuring that, uh, our survivors are heard, um, that they are given a voice and that they are prioritized in every single part of. Of this. Of combating this problem. And something that I know takes a lot of work is what Call to Freedom does. And it's just been a wonderful. A wonderful partnership so far, being able to use my skill sets and. And have someone be there to support me along that way as well. So it's. It's been a complete honor. And yes, we did meet in the bathroom. No, I was not hiding.

Speaker B: The best friendships are made in the bathroom, people. So I'm just saying.

Speaker A: Especially most women.

Speaker B: Most women, that's right.

Speaker A: Why do women go to the bathroom together? I'm like, because that's where friendships are made.

Speaker B: Duh.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Leave us alone. Um, ladies, uh, both of you have such a. And again, Alicia, just me getting to know you in a short amount of time, I can see and sense and feel your passion. And Becky, for over the last few years, getting to know you and the Call to Freedom organization more, I think, naturally, um, we're seeing more, at least, awareness about human trafficking. That terminology has become a normal kind of nomenclature. And one thing that, Alicia, you had shared with us earlier is how to not become numb to that. And we know it's a complex problem, and we know that it happens in every community. I mean, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, being our home base, 200,000 people in the heart of the Midwest. You don't think about those kinds of things, but it is quite prominent, big cities internationally. Um, and the structure of. I mean, we look at financial crimes here at Central Payments all the time and investigate those financial crimes linking to human trafficking. And human crimes in general are very complex and very structured. How do you take that passion that each of you have, the realness, and make sure that human trafficking, by a definition, is not a nomenclature that's just dismissed as, yeah, it's a problem we have today, like drugs, no biggie.

Speaker C: We have to bring back the human element. And not only does that human element have to be at the center of how we combat this, but also we need to remember that the people that are being exploited are human beings. And for us to discuss this problem with no emotion, with, uh, you know, desensitize it a bit, uh, we're not doing them justice, and we're not paying, uh, attention to the amount of weight, amount of pain and amount of trauma that these victims and these survivors have gone through. Also, we're not going to act. We're not Going to take action. We may say that we are going to. But a human being per psychology, unless you feel called or you feel that you need to act, they you will not either respond to a situation of trafficking, human trafficking, but you will also, you won't make that extra step or that extra effort to uh, take actions m going forward. So us as a community, we can't force everybody to care, to feel, of course, but being able to understand the weight and the heaviness and not just pass around the word without meaning or just, you know, everyone can Google what human trafficking is. Right? But what do those words mean? What does manipulation, what is forced? What is, what are these words actually mean? And that's when we start to pull that apart. And a major part that I feel is, is kind of lacking in our definition is a psychological part, the psychological entrapment manipulation factor. Because it's not only physical, now it's also mental. Uh, so I usually don't go by the definition in the book because I feel like we as a community, as a global community have not really um, accepted. We don't, we haven't accepted a definition yet. It kind of differs especially, especially with the Internet facilitated human trafficking part like that's new. No, still, people have no idea that cyber trafficking can involve drugs. Right. So ah, yeah, it's, it's. I just want to like my first action step really is take the time to feel the emotion, take uh, the time to educate yourself on farther than just the indicators. But what are the root causes of the crime? Understand the process of exploitation and understand that if it's on the Internet, these are still real human beings. It's real trauma. It's a real violation of your human rights. So that's my answer to that.

Speaker B: You know, I think uh, everybody deserves hope and everybody deserves um, to live a life that they dreamed of. And living life and journeying life with survivors has inspired me more than ever. How many times I've seen survivors look at me and say, do you really think I can get out? Do you really think I can make it? And when I say yes, guess what, we're going to walk alongside you. But this is somebody's daughter. This is somebody granddaughter. This might not be close to you, but it could be your child. Let's think about this. This is an illegal activity that's growing at a rate that's just unheard of. And as this grows, this means that guess what, your child, your granddaughter could be somebody that is actually a victim of this. And where do we get as A community where if it doesn't personally affect us, that we're not going to do something about it. And I think the biggest challenge as well for people within the community is, um, I want to do something, but I don't know what to. And one of the things that call to freedom we've been very passionate about is how do we create an opportunity for everybody to be a part of the fight? How do we use your gifts, your talents, your passion to volunteer or give towards that fight? And I really think that anti human trafficking groups, if they want to continue this movement, need to unite a community and engage them in the process of being part of the solution. Because guess what? Even if you're a teacher, you know how to educate, you are working with kids, you get educated and you begin to identify if something's happening within your classroom, you become part of the solution. We have people who serve on our security teams, people who do admin for us, because that's how they can give back. And what I want to encourage people to do is become part of the solution. Get involved with your anti human trafficking groups within your community. Of course, vet them, find the good ones to get involved with, um, and be a part of the solution. Because this needs to be a movement. This organized crime thrives in darkness. And if we don't talk about this and we don't bring light to this, we're going to have more victims than we've ever had in slavery, period.

Speaker C: I definitely agree on that. And another point just to add to Becky's is we all got to start listening to our younger generation. They're the future of our, of our societies, of our communities. I can't thank the people in my life, in the beginning of my journey for believing in me as a young person and giving me a voice and having that trust in me to become a leader that I am still evolving in every single day to this since then. So I think that we need to start listening to our younger people in our communities and provide them opportunities to become that leader that we're going to need someday because they're going to carry on this work afterwards.

Speaker A: Incredible wisdom, honestly, both of you. And I know that, again, the passion runs very deep. Um, different situations that have gotten you both to where you are today, but I'm grateful for that. And so when we think about the financial services industry and who this podcast reaches, it's a lot of folks in that, in that, um, grouping of companies, be it early stage fintechs, be it established fintech or financial service companies, But I think about investigators that look at financial crimes and I think about m, the cyber new apps that come out all the time, new innovation in fintech. Uh, Alicia, you're certified in cybersecurity and different trainings of that nature. What are some things that, when you think, think about financial apps that are out there, what should people be looking at, looking for as it relates to something that could be deeper like human trafficking.

Speaker C: These days, the cases that I've worked on a, ah, lot of the times they're using money apps, cash app, Venmo, PayPal, uh, or cash for example. Sometimes I also see that they use gifts, so gift cards, um, memberships, stuff in that nature as well. But what I'm also noticing is the extreme need for financial institutions to speak with each other. Also for applications and money apps and money processors, money middlemen is what I call them. Um, to start talking with other investigators, to work with the osint, to work with the human trafficking experts. Uh, if a bank should have the number two cash app, you know, to be able to further their investigation, reach, uh, there shouldn't be a break in that. Just like they flow through the system, we should have a direct line uh, to the money pathway or route that they're facilitating, that these criminals are facilitating. So what I would say is yes, financial uh, apps need to start partnering with banks if they're not already same with hotels and accommodations. Uh, because banks are, you guys really are a huge piece. You guys are the purpose they want, they do it for financial gain. That's right. So if we just make it as difficult as possible for these traffickers and criminals to operate by taking away their resources, it's going to dismantle their entire uh, business model.

Speaker A: Well I think that transitions really nice into the point around how complex of, of an orchestration trafficking uh, takes and staying ahead of the criminals. Even before trafficking was so prevalent, go back to terrorist find financing or drug trafficking. Back in the days that was, was at least a little bit more front and center. It was always a mindset of how do you stay ahead of the criminals? Uh, what are some tactics, tips, tricks? What are some ways that the financial services industry can do that can actually stay ahead of criminals?

Speaker C: So first thing I would say is, uh, go to training, get training, continually continue your training with survivor leaders, uh, experts in the space. Uh, you should also spend some time doing some research yourself on what you are seeing and then consult with experts on uh, the connection of transnational organized crime. I would say the number one thing would keep on learning we can only do so much, especially because I am not in the financial institution space, right. I'm in the cyber or Internet facilitated human trafficking. However, you are the specialists in seeing the trends in the activity. But us working together, it's just gonna multiply our power and our ability to make an impact, uh, in this fight. So what I would say would be, number one, education, education, education, become more aware and maybe do a little bit of your own research, get a little bit creative with it a bit. Um, a lot of the times I was able to uh, figure out some ways that they were going towards or the applications that they were going to go towards is me just doing some research and in the space, in the market, uh, as well as. Okay, I see a lot of kids on uh, all of a sudden they're, they're leveraging TikTok or this is just an example, or they're, they're back on Facebook. You know, they're on this app or they're in this group, they're using decentralized networks. Now that was the other one. And I already see them going. And so what happens when you have 500 fish in one pool and they're all going towards this app and then you have like two in another? Of course the traffickers are going to go lean towards where there's more fish. So I would say just start with basics, the foundation of how it happens, what is the root, uh, if there's a conflict, Ukrainian refugee crisis, the traffickers already knew where they were going to go. There's even evidence of that. Uh, they, they got it right, I'll say that. And they definitely did it. So there's ways to do it. Just take some classes. I recommend for investigators, um, in the financial space to take OSINT courses. I think that is vital. Um, you don't need to be like a specialist in it, but I think that that will really assist you, um, in your investigations. Also don't be afraid to reach out for help. Um, and yeah, I still take training to this day, so.

Speaker A: Well, you had mentioned it earlier that it, everything changes so rapidly that whether you feel like you took a training three, five, six, seven months ago or even two years ago, you are behind the curve. And so your training changes, would you say, every week you're tweaking some stuff, right?

Speaker C: Yeah. So I will, I will always adjust my training depending on what I'm seeing at the, at the time. Because usually when I present it's already moved on by then. So uh, there's always things coming out

Speaker A: and speaking of training you just to kind of jump the gun to that part. You offer training, um, to a, ah, variety of folks. Anybody listening to this podcast today can reach out to you and we'll give contact information towards the end. But you provide training of what to look out for and are constantly leaning into that.

Speaker C: Yep, definitely. I provide training on osint, basic osint. I uh, also provide training on dark Internet investigations, basic uh, awareness financial institutes as well. I also do privates. So if you come to me and you need uh, some one on one training or maybe there's a few of you on your team, uh, we will, you know, talk about what your needs are and see where we go from there. Uh, so it's very customized, but yeah, I tried to, you know, hit everything that I can. Um, for all of the people on

Speaker A: the front lines, what a wonderful conversation we just had. So good that we actually split it into two episodes. So that is a wrap on part one. Stay tuned for another episode revealing the conversation, continuing part two.