102. Making money on social media without compromising your ethics or mental health, with influencer marketing expert Nicole Camacho

Speaker A: The selfish, the greed, the like. We're supposed to be helping people, but I feel like we're helping ourselves first and foremost. How can we do it differently?

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to Find you'd Magic, the podcast where mental health and entrepreneurship meet. I have a very exciting guest for you. This is a repeat guest, kind of. I have my friend Nikki Camacho on the podcast today. Nikki and I met back in 2016 when we both worked for a DIY women's lifestyle blog called Be Makeful. And even though that job ended, we remained friends afterwards because Nikki is one of those humans who just is so good at staying true to herself and finding ways to be creative no matter what life or her career throws at her. She is now currently representing creators, content creators, uh, AKA influencers, and teaching them and guiding them how they can professionalize their social media presence into something that is not only good for their bank account account, but also for their mental health. She is doing the social media game differently and that is why I was chomping at the bit to get her on the podcast. I think that there's a lot of negativity bias, including from me. I will hold myself accountable to that on the impact of social media and I still believe it is very important to consistently evaluate your relationship with social media. But as Nikki points out in this episode, there is a lot of good that comes from the Internet. There is a lot of potential for connection, for feeling not alone, for sharing things of value, for sparking creativity. There's a lot of really good stuff out there and people who are genuinely showing up to create content that touches our hearts, helps us live better lives. And Nikki is so good at being such an authentic, joyful, sparkly human that other joyful, authentic, sparkly humans can't help but be attracted to her. So she is on the podcast today to talk about a couple of things. One, how to see if like to take your own temperature on whether or not becoming a professional content creator is even something you would be interested in. Do you want to make creating content on social media a revenue stream? It's a lot more possible than you might think. And by the way, long form content like blogging or long videos on YouTube is also being a content creator. I kind of forget about blogging and long form writing content as being a content creator because when I hear content creator I think of honestly like an obnoxious girl in athleisure drinking from a Stanley cup. And I think that a lot of people probably share that bias with me. And so Nikki's here to shake us up, make us rethink what content creation is, help us ask ourselves some questions about whether or not becoming a professional content creator would even be the right move for us. And, um, then if the answer is yes, what the heck to do about that? How do you go about deciding what your personal brand is going to be? What niche are you going to go into? How do you communicate with brands? How do you begin to actually get paid deals? All of that is going to be covered in this episode with my friend, Nikki Camacho. On this episode of find your magic, a repeat guest, Ms. Nikki Camacho, my friend of lo. So many years. I was looking back and I was like, when did I actually start at Omnia? And I was like, oh, my God. 2016 was yesterday and a lifetime ago. Like, what?

Speaker A: It's. It's crazy how far and how close it seems at the exact same time. Like, we were just here and then

Speaker B: we just were like, I know I'm beating a dead horse, but truly, like, 2020-20 through 2022, like, all three of those years, 2020, 2021 and 2022, as, like, a lump sum. Just feels like they didn't. It feels like they didn't happen. It feels like there was this huge, like, trauma moment where I just left my body and then, like, 2023 kind of came back. Kind of was, quote unquote, back to normal, which we'll get to.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And like, oh, what is that?

Speaker A: It was cheering you on for making it through 2023. Like, we all needed that little listeners

Speaker B: who did not see that. Okay, I have some app, like, hidden in my. My Mac, I don't know, hidden in my computer. Where Zoom Google, meet Slack. It doesn't matter if there's a video communication. Like, I'll make some movement with my hands, which happens a lot. I'm Italian. I talk with my hands. And, like, all of a sudden fireworks will go off or all of a sudden confetti will come down on the screen or like, a little thumbs up is another one that happens. Sometimes it. And then sometimes it doesn't. Like, I don't know. I think my computer's haunted by a ghost with a great sense of humor.

Speaker A: I love this.

Speaker B: So, yeah, so I'm just gonna name her Lucille. Like, Lucille doll. So Lucille just, uh, threw confetti at me for making 2023. Do you agree with that, though? Does that feel. Does that feel true to you?

Speaker A: Yes, I think especially because even, like, life milestones were on hold for people. So I feel like, like weddings happen later, so even people's birthday, like you made up for it after that time period. So it almost felt like we didn't have any normalcy even in just like what happened. Like we all turned a year older each year, but we didn't actually go through the process until like three years later when we could see each other and like do the things we normally do as part of that. So I did feel like a weird pause of a chunk of years of

Speaker B: like, I never thought of it in those terms. Like we didn't get to experience the milestones. So it didn't feel.

Speaker A: Feel real. Yeah. And it's more so like you just added three plus three years, three years later, but not like you incrementally went along. You're just like, oh, now you're three years older. Thanks for.

Speaker B: So true. That's so true. And also for our particular age group, which is that like smack dab middle of the millennial.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Chunk. Um, those were very. Those are very formative years. Like for me, the pandemic hit, my God, math. What was I 32m and like 32 to 36 are really impactful years when it comes to big life milestones.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, a lot of big shifts happen. I think 2020. Of course, I was overly optimistic and I was like, we made it through the toughest year. This is probably about to be done.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And then I remember and I think we chatted. I found myself at the beginning of 2021, pregnant and unemployed and just being like, okay, we're in a pandemic on top of it. So like, I can't go, like, you know, find work and. Yeah. Ah, yeah. It was the biggest roller coaster. I feel like those few years wild.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh. Completely. And then when you add to that the fact that we've chosen paths that

Speaker A: are,

Speaker B: uh, what would one say, like non traditional. Yeah. In the first place, like creative M. That we can't just. You and I are the type of people. And um, I don't mean to speak for you, but like it matters to us what we create in the world. Right. Which makes finding work that actually pays money pretty tricky. Sometimes it.

Speaker A: It's so hard. Uh, we were having this. It's so funny you bring it up. I literally was talking about this with my husband the other day, saying, this is me. Obviously, I think out of a place of privilege, never realizing the privilege of work that you believe in and enjoy, like, or even one or the other, like even being able to say no. Or not want to say no because it's not the right fit is like this huge privilege and to like know that there's some companies that aren't great or like read roles and be like, that interview was awful. I hope I, I don't get this job. Like, and it's, it's just a weird existence. The more self aware you become to your point when you're actually thinking about the work you want to put out into the world and not. And some people, I mean a lot of us don't even get the choice where you're like, okay, right now I just got to pay the bills now and like forget about anything that means something because if I can't eat then like it's all not like, yeah, oh

Speaker B: my God, it's so true. And I've, at this point, when this episode comes out, I will have shared that I am back at a full time role right now, which was not on the roadmap at all in 2023. Like I thought back to full time freelancing, back to course creation, back to copywriter, like Hustle Grind. And I don't have a mortgage, I don't have a child. And it was so hard. And like, I don't think that people are, I don't want to say that people aren't honest, but it's harder to find entrepreneurs who are struggling. Being public about the struggle.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's always like, come have another six figure month with me and.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then on top of that, I haven't found very many people talking about the practical side of having your own business, like freaking health insurance. My God, what a nightmare. Um, and I'm in a place right now where I'm still very much triggered by all of that. And so I can own that. But you're so right. There is this privilege that I didn't realize that I had of being able to say no. But then also there is a flip side of that, of being able to say yes.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: You know, and like for me I'm getting in the weeds a little bit. But for me it's like, okay, how can I find a way to scratch that itch to make meaning? How can I find a way to give myself enough freedom to create something to be creative instead of coming from a place of desperation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think it can be both. You can both have a job, job that gets you through the season and then doing your creativity thing, like if your creativity isn't making you money, that doesn't mean that you're not creative. M. You know.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I. It's interesting because when you say that, what I've been thinking a lot about, I would say in the last few months is that I kind of want to take off all the rules and all the boxes in the sense that original. I think when we met, that's when I first got into digital.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So before that, I had said, I just want the job to pay me well. And like, that's what weekends are for. And I said, I did everything I felt like I could. Like, I just want to be happy enough kind of thing. I'm gonna fit in the box. It's gonna be good. And then I think the more I've grown, it's really been about just letting go because I. I tried to have the secure job for baby. I tried to have the good maternity. And I'm like, you know what? I'm trying to fit in the box and it's still coming out this way. So, like, what if we just take out all the rules? You know what I like, if it's gonna end up this way anyways, like, let's just not play by the rules. And like, wouldn't I be happier along the way if I just got like, messy? If I'm gonna end up in the same place, like, let's just. Yeah.

Speaker B: That is so inspiring, Nikki. And that's such a fair point. Let's get into what you're doing now because I think it actually is a good segue. Right. You are helping people.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Be creative and make money doing it.

Speaker A: Yes. With creators. I love it. My biggest thing, and I don't think I shared this with you yet, but at the, uh, I would say in the middle, I want to say July. So we. We get a new house. I'll take you through the quick like, please. Which in direction. I was at a job I loved. It ended. I work in big tech and creator industry a lot. They sell themselves to another company. They merge. Goodbye, everybody. I'm looking for a new job. I find one. I think it's wonderful. It's going well. And then six months in, first time this type a girl has ever experienced not being a culture fit and that's not working anymore and going, uh, separate ways or you know, being told like, we're done here. So that shock by then getting Covid with my 2 year old at the same time, like a week later and then like, what is life? What is everything? What are we like gonna do? What is, you know, a reset? Um, and I think in that Reflection. What I thought about was a lot of the work I was doing and a lot of the things I knew I had issue with or that I saw in the industry. So like the big heavy money grab. So like the selfish, the greed, the, like we're supposed to be helping people, but I feel like we're helping ourselves first and foremost.

Speaker B: Oh my God. Yes.

Speaker A: So how can, how can we do it differently? Like of course we all have bills and I think it's important that everyone get paid appropriately. But I don't know when it became a, uh, like how much can I get from you while making it look, you know, like you're, you're getting something from me if you're not. And that's what I feel like a lot of the industry can be sometimes not, uh, of course, everyone and everywhere. But I feel like I see that a lot where it's like, how much can they make from you? What are you doing for that? And I'm like, these are talented people and the whole point is helping them make a full time living. And I think that's where I want to get back to.

Speaker B: Yes. So let's break it down. Super. Clearly what you are doing is you are representing talent.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Creators, online content creators. And you're helping them find those brand deals, find those campaigns where they can create content for that campaign that the goodness knows the marketing departments at these big brands could never. And what you are doing is helping people use their talent to make money to hopefully become full time content creators. Do I have that right?

Speaker A: Yes, you have it right. That's the main arm of the business. I also help if you take all that knowledge into strategy for maybe smaller companies, that sort of thing, more consulting, but it's the same skill set and idea, uh, really helping people feel better about what they do day to day and being able to pay the bills with something that makes them happier. I always say, as naive as it sounds, is that I still believe in like the good of the Internet. And I sometimes we get caught up in all the scary. I'm like, this is also giving people a chance that they never had generational wealth that they never would have acquired in a world where it was a 9 to 5 in a specific degree. Um, so I really try to lean in there and, and try to boost that portion of the story of the Internet that it's still a place to, you know, change lives for the better.

Speaker B: That's such an important reframe and I think that it gives me pause to maybe have an accountability moment of like the Internet is how you use it. Right? Like, you're absolutely correct. It can be a place for inspiration, it can be a place for connection, collaboration that brings humor into our everyday. I mean, my God, how many memes do we send back and forth all day, every day? Like the world is run on memes.

Speaker A: Yeah, right.

Speaker B: Like, um, they're so much good and it's really easy to have negativity bias and to only see the negative. And I think that maybe after having been in the online business.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Algorithm space, like, maybe I'm just getting fed a lot of content that doesn't align with me anymore.

Speaker A: Yeah, like you've outgrown it. Like you've went through.

Speaker B: Yeah, like I'm ready for a glow up.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love this. I think that I hear a series coming, Kelsey. A little glow up series on. No. Um, but it's so true. I mean, it goes back to that, that classic example of what is it? A scalpel in the hands of a surgeon saves lives. A scalpel in the sand, you know, the hands of the wrong person is a deadly weapon and dangerous. We don't stop making scalpels. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So that idea. So I think it lies with each of us to use that tool in a way to bring good as opposed to use it to, you know, do anything else. So I, I try to make more good.

Speaker B: So say someone is a creator. Uh, listening to this. They're. Whether they are feeling really good, like, I could totally do this, or they're like, I don't know, maybe like, I really enjoy doing that, but I don't really know it. Uh, could it be me? Could I do it? Where would you tell people to start when it comes to like, do you want to professionalize? Because I think that's a big, fair, important question. How to determine do you want to professionalize? And then if the answer is yes, what first steps could people take to make that happen?

Speaker A: If it's a yes. And I would say if they need criteria to think about, like if they want to do this, I always try to lean on the paint me your ideal world. If everything is as you want it, as you have it, what does that world look like? And kind of work back from there. But if they're yes, like they want to move forward, this is about them. I would tell them to take a look at what they're doing and, and see if they're already treating it in like a manner that's professional, that feels like more than a hobby, or if they Feel like they could get there and still enjoy it. So I think a trial run, um, if they haven't been treating it kind of as a real quote unquote, real job consistency, um, setting dates for creating content, really treating it as a serious profession and still finding the joy in it, I feel like is the good indicator of whether or not it's worth pursuing. I mean that's not guaranteed success, but it's an indicator, I think where it's an if that you should follow if you're like, I'm doing it this way, I'm finding joy, I should, you know, I should take this if pathway.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's pretty great. There's a lot of creators out there. Um, I would also say always being comfortable in the ambiguity and the shift that is the digital space, being willing to evolve. I think it's hard to do that as a person in personal life and creators have to do it so much more and so much more often because how you make money, where you make it, what's resonating, what isn't shifts. So I, I feel like you have to be okay or learn to be okay with that if you want to exist professionally that way.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That there is an excite, an excitement to that potentially. Um, and then understanding that like there also has to be a little bit of a, of a humble beginner's mind that comes with that, right?

Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Um, yeah. I feel like, and this could be again me just being a little, I get a little frou frou sometimes I say where I'm like, I feel like most creators can feel in their heart if it's a thing they really want. That's um, not to say if you very specifically want to just make more money as a side hustle, you can, um, I think it's just knowing the difference of are you building this life around something you're passionate about content creation wise, or is it just a few extra bucks, in which case maybe choose something easier. Yeah, why not?

Speaker B: You know. No, I think that's, that's an important common misconception that being a quote unquote influencer just means like posting you and your Stanley cup and expecting, you know, sales to roll in. That's not that I need cheap, you

Speaker A: know, after I posted myself.

Speaker B: Yeah, like it has changed. Right. Like I like to say that creators are almost like a self contained digital agency. If when you find someone who has sparkle, it's really awesome. Like it's really exciting. Because when you find somebody who's doing things differently or making you laugh or who you connect with. I mean we all have those people who we follow, I think. And so the best full time content creators, in my opinion, are the people who can really stay true to themselves while still riding the waves of the industry as a whole.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, I feel like this touches on. I listen to a lot of Gary Vee. I'm not sure if you like, you love Gary. So I think what we're even getting at is just that I think your end goal should be to be happy and fulfilled in your life.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And then go backwards. It could be this. It doesn't have to be this. But I think we can't forget what we're aiming for and like, it's okay if it doesn't align with this. I feel like this is also trending now. I, um, mean, used to be, uh, to your background, I know someone were like, I have to be on television or like my life is nothing. You know, like that's right. The only way I could be happy. And I think it's okay to pause and take a look and like, maybe that wasn't your path, but it doesn't mean you can't be happy and fulfilled. So very similar.

Speaker B: I just want to talk about the word path for a second because I, in therapy and in journaling and in just self exploration, I realized that I really had the wrong definition of path. I thought a path was a path that didn't change, that led to a specific outcome. Right. And if I'm on this path, then I'm on this path and if I choose something different, then it's a different path. And it's like, no, no, the path just turned. Same path. Still yours?

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker B: You know, like me being an actress for 10 years is part of my path.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: It has since made twists and turns. But like, it doesn't mean that I started from square one every single time.

Speaker A: Yes. You know, there's of course, in true millennial fashion, I'm gonna say there's some tick tocks here that I'm gonna have to send you that we can. Yes.

Speaker B: Show notes.

Speaker A: Um, but there's one in particular recently to this point that, and she was talking about a lot of people come up to a door, let's say like a universe door, and thinking, you know, that's their door, that's their path and it's not opening. And the confusion that happens is they think that means no too many times. So like you come into the store Like, I'm looking for love and you're knocking. You're like, well, love won't answer. I'm not going to have a soulmate. And the reality is it could just be not that door. Like, not them. And so many people forget that there are other doors. Like, not getting a door just means not that door. It doesn't mean no. And I feel like that has just stuck with me so much that this no doesn't mean all. No. It means, like, oh, wrong, wrong path redirect, you know, to your. Like, just. It's a turn, like, totally.

Speaker B: Well, and to make it, like, micro, uh, specific to your niche and what we're talking about in terms of content creation, um, there are, I'm sure, low. So many no doors.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, I mean, I remember being an actor, like, every audition. I think it's like, 99 of auditions you're not gonna get. Um, and it's the same with brand briefs, right? Like, just because you think, like, oh, I'd be a perfect fit for this doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna be a yes. And just because it isn't a yes doesn't mean that you're not a good content creator.

Speaker A: Creator, exactly. There is this creator I talked to who had a similar thing where she most definitely wanted to create. She did different versions. So she streamed eight hours a day and for gaming, and it wasn't taking off. Um, she did this thing on Instagram consistently, really devoted, like, didn't take off, and she had to keep trying. And then she found, like, Tik Tok, and she got a lot of traction on a different topic entirely. Um, and it's this idea again, like, wrong door, wrong door. Um, it's the drive to keep just, like, going and being like, where's my door? Yeah, where's my door? Yeah. I loved her because she was just. She really invested in every quote, unquote, wrong door. Yeah, I feel like she could know, like, not that one for sure. Gonna go over here. Um, and she kept that light while she did it. So I feel like that was. She inspired me. I was like, wow, okay, that's amazing.

Speaker B: So let's circle back to something that came up earlier. So say somebody is in their gut, like, yes, I want to do this. I really want to give this a shot. I really think I have something to say. I want to professionalize what would be some things that you would tell them to start looking at, trying out. Tell us how you get started. Like, this feels. So I'm sure that there's no prescribed path.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But some ideas would be very welcome.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's good to see what content you already enjoy to, um, consume or to make. To consume first and think about why you enjoy that. Is it what you're actually getting? Is it the style? Are you just laughing? Is it comical? Does that bring you light? And then I think it's important to understand the difference between when people are there for someone as a personality, which really very rarely happens at a beginning stage, um, versus the type of con, like, the specific thing they're getting from that person. So in the beginning, it's easy to want to be like an Alex Earl. I feel like it's a good point of reference. She's just very popular being herself, kind of very random videos. That is like the one in a million. And so while of course, one in a million is possible, I tell creators you don't want to start there and shoot for that because you can always end up there. But you want to give yourself a strong start, which means providing something to your audience. So what do you want to provide? I feel like that's the key question, that you should start with something you enjoy that you can provide to others. Um, and once you. If you can hone in on that really strongly, I feel like you'll be in a very good place.

Speaker B: Yeah. Beyond just your own personality, as much as we love you.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I always say, like, it's showing up to a first date, and you're not like, hey, I want to get married and have three kids. So, like, when do you want to propose? Because they just met you and, like, what are you bringing? Who are you? And I think you got to think about that as a creator of, like, you can't just show up and be like, love me. I'm here, so love me. And everyone just like, whoa. What?

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. Like, really identifying. Okay, what is. What is my niche? I guess, for lack of a better word, like, what is the value that I'm providing? And what method of delivery is that? Like, you know, I think that there is. The overall subject is one piece of it. M. Like, I'll just take. I'll use myself as an example. So for a very long time, like, when I saw the most growth on Instagram, when I was the most professionalized on Instagram, was when I was really focused on speaking about copywriting in particular, and how to write your own copy if you're an entrepreneur. That was the topic that I spoke on. The method of delivery of that topic was kind of balanced by quick hits of carousels, like text that people would save and then like funny shorts, like funny videos and reels. And that was the way that people found me. That's how I got hired as a copywriter. That's how people ended up in my digital courses. Like can be your own brand too, which is another thing that we can talk about. But like making um, money from social media comes down to who are you serving, how are you serving them? Like what's the value you're providing to them? And then what is the method that you are delivering that information?

Speaker A: Yeah. And I feel like you hit on the perfect recipe because I think it's easy to forget that when someone new comes and finds you, they have a few seconds and they wanna, they, they're trying to grasp very easily who you are and what you're doing. So when you can be specific to your point, when you're like copywriting for these people, this is what I do. It's so much easier to follow you because I know what I'm getting, what I'm gonna keep getting. And like that, that exchange is easy. But now you show up to a page where it's like kind of varied. What's down here doesn't match the bio. But like I also am not invested because I just found you, so why would I hit follow? So all those things, I feel like you hit a good recipe of I'm giving you value and then also just showing who you are so that we can learn to love you just for you outside of copywriting.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it uh, it makes me think of what I learned in the digital content world. Right. Which is I use the, the image of a tent pole a lot. Like if you think of a circus tent, like one of those old timey like Barnum and Bailey, like red and white circus tents. There is one big tent pole in the very middle that like holds everything up. Mhm. And then there are lots of little like side poles that make up the space. But that main big honkin tent pole is what's holding us all together. So identifying what's the tent pole.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And as much as we love you dear friends, it can't just be your personality.

Speaker A: Yes. If uh, we can like can the editor make that um, can you into a million calcies and come back? Because it's so hard and it feels so personal. I feel like people feel very personal. Get like how could people not just love me? Like why wouldn't you want to, you know, me? And it's again it's like meeting someone for the first time if all they did was say, no, don't say anything. Let me tell you about me. And you're just like, how do I build any type of connection when I'm not getting something from you? I can't be like, it's just a weird dynamic in real life. So just try to translate that digitally.

Speaker B: Yes, yes. Uh, um, it also makes me think, it makes me want to clarify again and like, really hammer home that, uh, what we're talking about here is professionalized social media. If you're just posting social media because, like, it makes you happy and you want to show off your embroidery art, like, by all means, yeah, do that. Love that for. I love that so much. Like, if it's just a hobby, great. Good for you for defining that and having boundaries. A, uh, what we're talking about with all of these metaphors of tent poles and niches and everything, we're talking about professionalized social media, which is different. Which means you have to come to it as though you are a marketing professional.

Speaker A: Yes. It is your small business and what you're selling is the content. I think it's also important to call it even in the digital space. You can build a full business on brand deals, but you can also say, hey, I'm going long form, old school blogging. M. I'm just here for the. The ads on my site and I don't want to worry about brands. Like, I just want to create what I create and it drives enough traffic through SEO. Like there's different ways within social where you can decide what type of creator am I? I'm a social. I want long form. I don't even want to be on, you know, the platform short of driving traffic. So there's different ways depending on who you are. Um, just know I feel like there's a big self awareness element that we're talking about. M eating as a creator in the space.

Speaker B: Can you. Because I'm gonna admit my own ignorance. I didn't even think of considering blogging until you just said that. Like, I hear content creator influencer and immediately I'm like, tick tock or Instagram, maybe YouTube also. Like, that's what I got.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, um, yeah, that's totally. I just want to add some validation to. It's totally fair because I think blogging was an old school og, like the original come up creator. But my hot take, my prediction, you heard it here first, is I think blogging is making a comeback. To be fair, in a lot of ways that didn't leave. Um, I have creators who earn their full income blogging through their website, through ads. And the brands on social are the plus the bonus. So there's still a world to do that. I feel like there's less instant gratification and so we have to separate. Am I just feeling good when people like me or am I building a business with revenue? And I don't necessarily need to be the star on social media because I over here building my site.

Speaker B: What are your thoughts on Substack? Do you have any?

Speaker A: I want to look into it more. There's a big creator, Broccoli, uh, Rob. Do you follow Broccoli Rob?

Speaker B: I don't, but I'm gonna.

Speaker A: So he is very, um, Wishbone Kitchen, where he's a private. He's you know, a young chef, private chef or someone in the Hamptons. And he just takes you through his day making like beautiful food. He works, you know, 12 hours. Um, but he's exclusively. I think most of his links link out to Substack. So I'm curious because I don't have any direct creators who are predominantly building their business that way. So I'm curious as well what that's like. I imagine it's similar to blogging and that if you can get a, you know, that loyal readership, everything else is optional and like a bonus.

Speaker B: M. Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, it's uh, it's an avenue that I've been exploring more because honestly my heart kind of fluttered a bit when you were like, yeah, return to long form. Because I really miss. I mean I had a blog, I'm. I tried to go on Wayback Machine. I deleted it and I'm so sad that I did. It was called Hole in the Wallet and it was, I started it in 2009 and it was a food slash lifestyle blog where I would, I was a broke ass 22 year old living in New York City and I would go to like a restaurant and then that would be the hole in the wallet. And then I would recreate it, recreate the recipe with affordable ingredients in my house and then talk about my feelings. And that was the hole in the wall. So I miss it so much. And my whole life I've kind of had this anonymous. I'll. I'll just share the secret. I've like, yeah, I've had blogs that are out in the world that don't have my name on it because I always have felt drawn to sharing long form writing with people. And Substack came uh, into my orbit kind of the last few months of. I feel like more and more writers or people who do more long form stuff are getting on substack and I'm like, is this just going to be another annoying social media app or is this actually something that's really exciting?

Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like. And not to just like insert myself into your schedule, but I feel like we should. Because I want to relaunch a blog traditional and it sounds like, I feel like one. We should encourage you to do substack and we should come back in like six months and say, you know what I mean? And say like the learnings, like, if you want to do this, try this. If you want to. I think it's the time. Like I honestly do. It's a much bigger skill set. To your point, writing long form, like that process, even SEO, it's a different skill set than we're consistently seeing. I feel like on social, sure, there's SEO in different. A different form, but the traditional one. Mhm. So many less people I feel like are doing it and I think it's. It's a blue ocean moment. Like tons of blogs exist, sure, but active, well written quality and I think that number just like trickles down. And so I, I think we should do a six month check in and, and chat. I mean if you're.

Speaker B: I like it, I like it. Let's hold me accountable. This is going to come out in March most likely. So six months from March is April, May, June, July, August, September, September, back to school, Labor Day, Labor Day weekend. I'm gonna do a six month check in on Did I do sub stack? How did it go? Am I liking it? Yes, I like that. I like that a lot. And also it really speaks to your, uh, original question, Nikki, which is what do you actually want to make? What actually brings you joy? Because for some people, long form writing is like the punishment. Yeah. Like take my eyeballs out with a dull spoon. But. But for me, like, trying to edit myself to get into however many characters on Twitter is like the worst thing that anyone could ever ask me to do.

Speaker A: Yeah. Finding your platform is everything and I think you'll win the most. Like, to your point, like, if you're just having a good time, it already feels like winning. And then you add in the strategy and now it's like a good recipe for doing that. Um, and I think you should if it brings you that much joy. I always told my husband that like the Internet would go down and I would chisel my little story on A rock. Because that's just how I experience the world. I need to digest and I need to spit it back out.

Speaker B: That's true.

Speaker A: You would chisel your story on a rock post Internet, like, post apocalyptic world. Get a blog. Like, please get a blog. I love that.

Speaker B: Cue the Flintstones theme. That makes me very happy. Oh, Nikki, I love this so much. So say somebody is talent, they're looking for management or they are, you know, starting their journey. How can they get in touch with you? Where can they find you?

Speaker A: So I am on, of course, Instagram. You can DM or email me. My Instagram is at Nikki Camacho. I feel like that's the biggest hub for, for me. Um, or you can email me Nikki at Hey, Nikki Media Nikki, uh, with one K. Niki and I would love to chat. Even if you're just considering it. I would love to take a moment and I'd be happy to offer you my thoughts, my perspective so you can make the right decision for yourself. So please don't hesitate to just reach out and connect and make a new friend in the space.

Speaker B: And if you are a brand or if you are a business who's like, I would love to maybe explore having creators make content for me, then also get in touch with Nikki because, um, the proof is in the pudding. User generated content is the best performer by far and away. Such a better investment than ads.

Speaker A: Yeah. I was going to say the cost effectiveness compared to what you would have to pay to produce a big commercial and moment is significantly better.

Speaker B: There was a study, and this is very outdated so like all the grains of salt. But there was a study that they did in 2020, I want to say, that showed that user generated content had a 21x ROI. 21 times higher ROI than a paid, like, display ad on Google.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Which is wild to me. I also. There's all the grains of salt. Right. That really depends on, on what you're even promoting, like how much you're paying creators, what types of. Like, there's a lot of strategy that goes into that, but for that particular study, they saw 21 times better results.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I wish you could send that to all the brands. I think there's still a little bit of an adoption thing happening, but. Yes, yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I love, you know, the people that you represent. It sounds like you have your own niche within the management industry. Do you want to talk a little bit about the types of talent that you represent and the, the little community that you're building?

Speaker A: Absolutely. No, I appreciate you Calling that out. Um, I've always really wanted to support and kind of uplift as best I could, diverse voices and people. Um, diversity being from perspective and background all the way to body shape and size. I think there's a big gap in pay when it comes to how creators of different backgrounds are paid, and we just want to shrink that, to be quite honest. We want to shrink that. There's no reason why it needs to exist there just to be that pay gap. So I am here. I think the challenge for big agencies is always that we got to build you there. Um, but I am small and boutique for a reason that I can build with you. And I'm not just here to. To be with you at your big moment.

Speaker B: Mm m. God, that's so nice.

Speaker A: I'm trying to make this space so much better. I've seen some. Some of the dark alleys in this industry. Let's just switch it. I think the best way to do that is to be what you want to see, so.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. God, that's so important. That's so important. Like, discernment. Right. In any. In any industry at all, but especially in the industry where you are the product, it's really tough. It makes me think of being an actor and, you know, shady agents or shady managers.

Speaker A: And I was gonna ask you about that. Like, you must have felt a similar pool of, like, people just wanting what they could earn from you as opposed to, like, supporting you.

Speaker B: Oh, completely. And there was this very tricky, um, honestly, codependent, uh, relationship where actors or talent would feel often like they were bothering their representation. If they needed. If they had any sort of question or they needed any kind of development, um, they were often made to feel like a problem or a bother. And then there was this pressure unspoken, of, like, book or get cut. And it was very scary.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Versus what you're doing, which is, as you said, your words, like, growing with people. And what I love is, like, when you. When you hear Oscar speeches. Like, I think of J.K. simmons when he won for Whiplash, and he thanked his manager. I still remember this. He thanked his manager who'd been with him for, like, 20 something years. That person is making so much money from J.K. simmons, and he will never leave because they grew with them.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, when you find, like, it is possible to find a mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship between talent and talent manager, it is absolutely out there. Is it hard to find? Honestly? Yeah. Like, it's. It's a tough. It's a tough one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But that's why I invited Nikki here so you all could learn about her.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Let her DMs.

Speaker A: Um, please come find me. Um, and thanks for calling that out. If anyone is trying to rush you through a process or very dangerously or intensely trying to lock you into it, um, let your red flag come up and remember that you have the power of time in the space so you're on your own time limit. Don't let anyone else force you through anything. Don't get locked in. Um, you should always have freedom to come and go because that's taking away the accountability I feel like on the other person's end. So don't get locked in in that way, please.

Speaker B: And let's really specify what we mean there. Do you mean like a contract? Like signing with someone in a contract? Yes.

Speaker A: Contracts that don't have ways to end them, even if like, it's just satisfaction. Um, contracts that don't end as cleanly as they should. Anything M that feels like you can't escape it when you decide it's time.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Probably reason for pause.

Speaker B: Yes. But wish I'd known that 15 years ago.

Speaker A: And it's hard because you feel that you feel special and you're getting to do this thing. It feels important. All you want to do is get going and like m, you were valuable without them, you'll be valuable after them. So like, please just take the time that's like the biggest lasting because then you get stuck and you know, you can't exactly make that move.

Speaker B: Honestly, this conversation really the themes are tune into your intuition, see what you actually. What actually is going to bring you long term joy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and like let red flags wave.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If they're there, like look at them. Pay attention.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Whether they are things like contracts or whether they are things like mental health where you're like I'm not happy. That's okay. Either way. Above all, Nikki, I just love you so much. I feel like I could talk to you for hours.

Speaker A: The same. I was going to say we have to catch up post podcast.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Long. Um, but no, it's always lovely. I miss you. I'm glad you're well and I appreciate you as always just having me on.

Speaker B: Oh, I love you. You always have such wonderful things to say. And remember, you guys, you can find

Speaker A: Nikki at, at ah, Nikki Camacho on Instagram. Um, there's underscore between my name or Nikki at hey nikki media.com and all

Speaker B: of that is in the show notes. Thank you for being here, Nikki. I love you.

Speaker A: Thank you so much.

Speaker B: All right, everybody. This is another episode of Find you'd Magic. Take care. All right, y' all know I'm about to ask you to subscribe to find you'd Magic on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you found us today. It truly helps podcasters pay their teams, find, find better guests, and give you good content. So if you want to hear more conversations about mental health and entrepreneurship, be sure to subscribe to Find your Magic and leave us a review. Thanks for being here. Now go out there and find your magic.