The Power of Customer Relationships in Sales | Anthony Williams | Field Sales Unscripted | E165

Speaker A: This conversation that I had with Anthony Williams had so many gems. We talked about having the support of a spouse to push you and encourage you and to really help uh, you step into that next level of career is something that I sat down and talked to Anthony Williams about. We also dived into how you can become a true ally, how you can show up for yourself as well as for the people on your team to ensure that everyone is getting an equitable experience. Tune into this episode and be ready to take lots of notes because he dropped so many gems. So Anthony, take us on a journey and share with us how you started your career to how you got to where you are today.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me. Uh, first of all, I'm a graduate of unc, uh Charlotte, uh, down in North Carolina. I got a degree in communications. Shortly after that I joined Eaton Electrical M. I handled a lot of distribution for Houston, Texas in the Gulf area, uh, on a robust training program and then I became a self taught electrical engineer. When I got promoted, uh, to a senior sales engineer, uh, I had one big account that I worked out of. From there, uh, I went and got my mba, the University of Houston. So I was with Eaton for seven years. That's how I kind of cut my uh, teeth on corporate America. Then I moved to Virginia with GE Appliances, Um, worked there as an area sales manager for four years. Took care of Washington D.C. maryland and Virginia or the DMV as they call it. Uh, and then I went down to Atlanta, Georgia and started working for Firestone as a regional vice president, regional manager, handling six states, 54 employees, $200 million in volume. Then went to New York and worked for PepsiCo organization. Cut my teeth on operations. Then uh, joined Whirlpool on their luxury side doing uh, Jenn Air luxury appliances. Uh, I grew that business 4x in the new York, uh, Philadelphia and New Jersey market. Um, number one sales growth in the history of the organization. And then I received a phone call to uh, be interested in joining LG Electronics down in uh, Dallas, Texas. Nine states, 12 to 14 employees. I have two zone managers and uh, we're doing about $115 million uh, worth of business. So I have everything from New Mexico up to Colorado and then over to Louisiana. Uh, so I'm now the director of sales for the builder division which is a new division for uh, LG. Uh, we grew from 12 people in 2000 and uh, I'm trying to get the dates right. 23 and we have about 75 employees now in the field. So we're in Hyper growth mode. And we're looking to take all the uh, all the share from the competition.

Speaker A: Right. Wow.

Speaker B: So that was 90 seconds. I don't know.

Speaker A: That was perfect. That was uh, you, you got it, you got it, you got it.

Speaker B: I'm trying to get through.

Speaker A: There's so much in just your career journey that I really wanted to double down on. And one of the things that I heard was you have a degree in communications but you became a self taught electrical engineer. So talk to us. Because I see a lot of times people want to get into these positions, they don't have the educational background. Um, but I really feel like it's important to, I say, speak the language of the customer. So I'm a chemist and I had to learn to speak engineer. So how did you go from having that communications degree to becoming a self taught electrical engineer?

Speaker B: Well, first and foremost, you know, starting off in distribution, distribution feeds into uh, the end customer. And so we had a customer, IAS Residential who had. It was then key electrical. Well, they own their own distributor, which was complicated, but once you get in with a customer like that and they trust you and then they need someone to handle their contractor, they want to make sure they do it in house. And even though I was a vendor for a manufacturer, because of the time that I spent at the distribution, uh, arm of their organization, they're like, I don't, we don't want anybody else calling on our contractor but him. And then so there was a meeting in the office and they were like, we got him. And so you know all these people, all these electrical engineers that went to Texas A and M because everybody in the office with the Texas A and mom point and we're popping rubber bands, we're going through plans and they would sit there and show me how to do takeoffs and then I would go to the customer's location and do the takeoffs. And sometimes the customer would train you, because sometimes people would rather train somebody who doesn't know than inherit somebody who, who already knows their own tricks and trades and have their own hangups. And I think that when you're um, when you're one of one and they know that you're theirs, it really helps. But to be so customer centric that you have an office at your customer's location, that's what it was really about, the learning of engineering and stuff like that. They were gonna walk me through that, but they knew I'd never done takeoffs for any other customer before. Cause I'd never done a takeoff before. And I think that was the, um, the biggest lesson to me is if you make yourself valuable to the customer and you gain their trust and you do it in a professional way and you show loyalty, I mean, they can literally, the customer can literally get you promoted to your next position.

Speaker A: Wow, that is so profound. Like allow your customers to teach you. Right. And I think that a lot of times, especially people who are in the field, whether they're brand new to the industry or to the region or organization, doesn't matter how you're new, when you're new. But I think that we really miss that piece of allowing our customers to teach them. Because once they teach us their language, once they teach us their process, all of those things, essentially we can take that to go find more people just like them. Right. Because we've embedded ourselves into their world.

Speaker B: Yes, for sure, for sure. And it helps having a robust training program. That training program at Eaton, we had to do three months in Asheville, North Carolina and the inside sales, um, division and I think they called the EPOD then. And then he had to do another nine months out in the field in a sales office getting trained, doing everything from getting donuts to doing customer presentations, from delivering product, I mean, you name it, you had to do it. And then after that year you roll off into a job. And that it was, it was important that I did distribution first. Cause I really got to know the customer base and it wasn't as technical, but I was around the engineering for probably about two years before they sat me down and wanted me to become an electrical engineer.

Speaker A: Mm, that's awesome. And you know, that basis that I think a lot of large companies are doing, some small companies still struggle with it. It's how do we get people ramped up? And what I heard, and I think the key point that I want all the listeners to get is that was a one year program. Right. And so you can't hire somebody with no experience and expect them to be ramped up by themselves without any kind of structure in six months. It takes time for people to learn to understand and to be able to pay for themselves.

Speaker B: Yeah. Another thing that was important though, that I'm sure we're going to get into it, when I go over my resume is you had to move. Right. And so when you did that training program, you did a week in Pittsburgh, um, Pennsylvania, where they were headquartered out of. And then they handed out cities to the 12 of us. So the 12 of us in that, that year's class. And uh, you're going to Go here. So, I mean, you know, one guy got Minnesota. I mean, that's cold, you know. And so, you know, I was just something. Something warm. Something warm. Something warm. It's kind of like getting drafted. And so, um, but that stayed with me in my career. The opportunity to get promoted, the opportunity to promote yourself and do something more than you're doing often comes in another location. And you know, even when, I hate to say it like this, but even when choosing a spouse and meet my wife, it's like, hey, are you willing to move? I remember when I was dating in Houston, Texas, the first date question I would say is, you know, are you willing to move? And they're like, well, I mean, my mama lives in Louisiana. I can't go too far. I'm like, okay, that's not just that. Go work. Yeah, but I mean, knowing that you're willing to move in your organization, you also have to be careful who you, uh, who you choose as life partner. I meet a lot of people who really have a lot of potential, but their spouse is married to Dallas, Texas. Their spouse is married to, um. This one I want to lay in too many cities, but this one,

Speaker A: a lot of shade on Texas right now.

Speaker B: So currently right now I'm in Dallas. And then I also spent seven years in Houston. And I just did notice when I was in Houston, it's specifically more so than Dallas. People like, why would I have. This is God's country. Why would I ever live, leave? And it's like, okay, well, you know, it's different though. When you're sitting down to interview, uh, for a job or a national manager or vice president, we're like, I ran New York, you know, I had Miami, you know, I did business in Mississippi and Alabama, and I could speak, not different languages. But the meeting in Miami, for a price increase, that lasted 30 minutes, and the meeting in, uh, uh, not Nashville, say Knoxville, Tennessee, that lasted four hours, where we got to go by the son in law's house and look at his paintings. And then we didn't get to the business until hour three. Three hours and fifty minutes. Like, you have to be able to know when you're coming in as a vice president, what to expect. And one of the things that I always say when I'm interviewing people, talking to people is you have to be willing to understand new environments. You know, people like to use the word diversity, but can you understand the meeting in California and why they don't have on socks and in New York why they're cursing at you?

Speaker A: But you said they don't have all sides.

Speaker B: I've seen vice presidents come in, and within 10 minutes, I'm like, this is not going to go well at all. Because they didn't understand Houston. They didn't understand, um, you know, you're in a pickup truck, and, like, I thought this guy was a millionaire. I'm like, this truck costs $160,000. Like, you got to understand where you are.

Speaker A: So there are two things that you leaned on, and I want to go hit both of them. So I hope we don't get lost in the sauce. So the first one that I'm gonna lean on is something that we don't talk about a lot on the podcast, but you mentioned your wife. Um, and so I think that a lot of times, um, spouses are kind of the hidden person behind the scenes as we move up through the ladder, and we do those things. So tell us about how your wife has really supported you as you've done all these things throughout your career. Continue to move up the ladder.

Speaker B: Yeah. So funny you say it that way. It's actually the opposite. In my house, they're like, oh, wow, you really do support your wife. So I'm normal happy in my jobs. I love being in sales, outside sales. Um, when I moved to Virginia, she had gotten a job with Coca Cola in Virginia, so that I moved to Virginia. Uh, and then she got a job with, uh, uh, a news station, Gannett, um, and, uh, a media company. So they promoted her to Atlanta. That's why I moved to Atlanta. And then I promote. Got promoted to the vice president, RVP role. And then she got a job as a director in New York, which is why I moved to New York. And then she became a vice president of hr, which is why we moved to, uh, Dallas, Texas, because her job was in Dallas, Texas. So almost every promotion I got is because she was taking a new job. We're moving to support her dream, and so I had to find something else. But her motto is two up or out, which is, you give an organization two years of excellence, they can either promote you or you promote yourself out to a new opportunity. And you'd be surprised how many times in interviews, people love that idea. They see your resume, they see the two up and out. We're not like that here. We promote from within. We have great opportunities. And then you hit two years, you're like, but you're doing amazing. You're hitting all your KPIs, your team loves you, and it's like, okay, okay, the rule remains.

Speaker A: And so

Speaker B: yeah, and it's, uh, when I do. When I. When a company do contact me, which happens a lot, and if it's an interesting situation, I'll talk to them. And the conversation often goes, wow, you have amazing resume, all these great companies, but, you know, you seem to job hop. I said, well, I don't hop side to side to hop up. And if I didn't have this resume, you wouldn't be talking to me. So let's make sure we understand what you're interested in, and let's not use it as a negative. Let's understand that I have more of, uh, a breadth of experience than most people. A lot of times I see people have depth of experience. I've done appliances. I've been doing appliances for 30 years. It's like, that's great. That's all you've done. You know, I've done commercial roofing. I've done engineering. I've done, uh, food and beverage. So I've done a lot of different things. And that helps you in, uh, in your next position, or you could promote it from within if they respect your resume.

Speaker A: So let's chat a bit more about this, you know, the upper out. I just love that motto. I'm gonna. You can tell your wife that I'm stealing that, because that is absolutely amazing. I usually say you have to move out to move up, but I like this, uh, let me give myself a KPI. Two years or I'm out. Right? Two years, I'm out. So when you're sitting in these interviews, and I know that a lot of times people do see moving a lot of companies as a red flag for them. Right. But you. It seems like you have been able to translate that into a positive. Right. So what are the things that you're doing when you're interviewing? How are you selling yourself? How are you helping people understand that this is an asset to them, not a liability?

Speaker B: Well, I also talk about each win that I. That I have from each. Each position, which shows you the growth and understanding of where I'm going from. So like I said, I was the, uh, at Eaton, I was, uh, in house counsel for a custom. At ge. I was a part of the Crotonville leadership team up in Crotonville, New York, which you normally need to be there like 10, 15 years to get that. I got that in two years. Uh, we took, um, toll, um, Brothers from Whirlpool, which was a major win in the D.C. maryland and Virginia market. So that was a big win there. And then, uh, just firestones learn how to set policies. Working with the vice president, I made my own rules. And then we spread those rules out to the rest of the country, which I do now for, um, a lot of the time with policies with lg. And so when they see what you're taking from every job, you're not just coming with a resume of different companies, but you're coming with a new skill set that you got at all these companies that they know and that they admire and that they understand. Okay, he's not just job hopping, he is growing. And then he's going to bring all of this with us and then also the upper out first. I say up first before out, because it's on you as an organization. If you hire me after coming from all these Fortune 500 companies and you don't see me hitting my. You see me hitting my KPI as being number one and my team's number one, and you don't have a succession plan for what's next for Anthony Williams or my team. Well, then he's going to be out. And that's part of our contract. And I've, I've been at this organization for three years. I've already promoted, uh, three people and one person got transferred because of a need. But I was able to do that because I was watching them. And as they were doing their two years, I. Well, let me get this person up before they move out. And so then you get a reputation from other people in the organization. Well, if you work for Anthony and you do a good job, you know you're going to get promoted. It might not be a new, a new title, but you could be a bigger region, a bigger customer, and always, always more pay because nobody wants a promotion without any dollars.

Speaker A: So this isn't just a philosophy that you employ for yourself. You also translate this into how you lead your team.

Speaker B: Even if they don't know it. I'm looking at them. And if you were a high performer for two years, I had one person, he just blew it out of the water in 12 months. And I was corporate. We have got to promote this person. Someone's going to take them. His territory kept growing and finally working with hr, they saw the light at the end of the table and we ended up promoting them. And so the whole organization knew it. And it's not like I hide it. I have a call. Hey, this person just got promoted. This is what they did. This is their KPIs, this is how they've helped the team, and this is what they're going to do strategically in their new role. And so it really does uplift the spirits of the team knowing that if they keep doing a good job, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't wait for a merit increase. I don't wait for a job opening. There's normally bans within the organization, within the company and the job you have, there are bans that the managers don't talk about that you can get promoted without moving anywhere. And I try to incorporate that. But also though, I let people know if there's a manager position opens up on my team that did, uh, about six months ago. I'm looking outside the organization, I'm looking outside the region. I don't want to put people in a position to manage their own team. I think that's very difficult. Uh, and I was able to bring somebody from the west coast to join our organization. But then that also signals to them, hey, if you want to get promoted to a manager and you work for me, do everything you can. And then you need to sit down and talk to your spouse about where you want to move because it's not going to be within the same team.

Speaker A: So tell me about that concept specifically, because I think a lot of not. I think I know and I see a lot of failures where you are go. One day they're your colleagues and the next day these are your direct reports. So tell me why not? Why? Help me understand your philosophy behind. Let me bring somebody from the outside in to lead this team and then I'll take that top performer and move them to another part of the organization.

Speaker B: My m. My philosophy is the dynamics of a team is no matter what you say, you're a peer. So you have a friendship, you have a familiarity, you have more information on. Um M. I know you go and get your nails done at 3 o' clock on Fridays and we don't tell anybody because that's kind of our thing is I'm going to the barbershop now. I'm like, hey, it's 4 o', clock, we have a meeting. I know you get your nails done, but I need you there. Okay? Now that's a violation of what we knew as we were peers. You know, I mean that's very horrible example, but that's a very simple example of what could happen. And I think that it's good to be new. When you're a manager, there's some implied power. There's executive power in your, um, in your title, but it's earned power and the in familiarity of the person in the organization. I don't really know this person personally, and they're my manager. So I need to be a little bit more professional because we don't have that casual, uh, communication, that casual relationship. The problem is when you get promoted from within in the same team, they're not going to move that casual. They're going to say, you change. They're going to want to talk to you the same way they talked to you before. You have more of an insight in the organization. Well, you know about the KPIs, but you also know about the P and L and why we can't give this distributor $10,000 when they've done $30,000 this year in business. And so you see that that's going to be a reflection on the organization, and then that's going to hurt our profitability. And then we can't do merit increases. You see a whole lot more that you can't explain to all your friends that are just like, hey, I got this approved before. Why not? And why put somebody in that precarious situation? I mean, there's some times where you could do it. I, I just don't like it. And I want to see your willingness to sacrifice. I want to see your willingness to change environments. If you, if you've always worked in Dallas, Texas, you, 25 years in Dallas, Texas, now you want to be a manager. I need to see you to drop yourself in Atlanta, Georgia. Can you go to New York and make it? You know, and, uh, people say it's all about relationships. I've known these customers for 20 years. I've never had relationships because I always just got off the plane and I've always succeeded. And so you build this tolerance and you build this callousness. You build this skill set that it doesn't matter where you are. I say it in interviews all the time. If you drop me off in the jungle, I'm going to leave leading the lions. But m, it's only because I've been dropped off in the jungle before. And so I'm not impressed because somebody's really good at the same place, doing the same thing with the same product. Move around, find new skill sets, and then we can, uh, we can talk about your next, your next move, what you said.

Speaker A: I mean, you dropped so many gems, and there's so many things that I tell organizations that I'm working with all the time. They. When we, when I start working with an, um organization, we typically do an evaluation. I'm looking at the sales skills, how they people all like, there's 21 factors that we look at. And I'm like, yeah, this is a weak salesperson, but they're our top producer. And the thing I always say is if you take them out of their current territory and drop them in another one, they will fail because they are selling based on relationship. They don't actually have the skills necessary to do the job that we need them to do. So it's our responsibilities as leaders to upskill, uh, people, to move them out of that place of comfort, to give them different account packages, to say, okay, you've been doing this for the past five years. Let's do this right. Because if we don't do that, if we don't shift their mindset or push them, then they're going to stay in that zone of comfort. Correct?

Speaker B: Correct. And the best. You know, I learned from my worst managers, and I learned from my best managers, and the best managers I've had, they sold different things, and they've been different places, and they understand different, uh, environments. And I can't. I can't. I can't talk about this enough. You have to be good in every room. I'm good in every room. You know, like I said, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and Brooklyn, New York. One can get your shot. Well, they both can get you shot. Say the wrong thing. So you have to move differently in each room. One of the biggest meetings I had in Brooklyn, New York, was, uh, a new customer. We had done $300,000 a year before, and they sat me down, and they're like, what are you doing here? I'm like, oh, I'm a generic. This is what I do. And they're like. They're like, uh-huh. Huh. There's five people in the room, including the president, like, what do you want? This is 30 seconds into the not. Whoa. Where did you move to and where. What do you want? I want a million dollars in business. Why do you want a million dollars in business? This is my proposition. This is what you guys do. This is how it gels. I put together perspective. Get us back to us in 24 hours. Thanks for coming in. We gotta go. Okay. If you're from Alabama and you've never done anything but talk about. Well, my brother and we hunted over here, and, yes, I know your sister and I went to this high school, and it's like, you. You're not gonna survive that 30 minutes. We did $3.3 million to that customer in the next 12 months. Of the 300,000 from before. And my manager comes in, he's like, you barely know these people. You barely talk to them. I don't need to know they're transactional. So I'm transactional down in Alabama. Oh, uh, I'm going to talk about your cousin's cousin and how we both went to this and I know who went to what school. And that time we took this trip, it's a completely different situation, but you got to be good in every room.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: And I think, I don't know why people don't talk about that more. They just tend to like, stay where they're at. And then they see these vice, these managers becoming regional managers, becoming vice presidents and like, well, why, why do they have the golden ticket? Well, they moved around to get the gold. That's, that's what alchemy is. You got to figure out a way to create more opportunities.

Speaker A: Yeah, I have a cute little story about that. When I went to my son, he was in fifth grade last year, I did career day for him. And one of the questions that the kids asked, well, what kind of what subjects do you need to really be good in sales? And I was like, you need all of them. And so I told them everything. And then I said, and you need social studies because what works in Texas won't work in California. So you need to know the differences of what they do in California versus New York because that is key. And even today, where I sit, where I'm working with organizations all over the world, like I'm doing a training in Alaska and we're talking about hunting and we're talking about fishing for salmon. I'm, um, in New York City and we're talking about the fast moving pace. Like the examples I use have to resonate with that team or it lays flat. And they're like, we don't care about what this person is saying. So having those cultural differences and I think that it, even if you don't have that within your company. Yes. Look outside of your company. But travel, like, get outside your bubble. When I meet people that go like, oh, I've never been outside of the state, I've never been outside of the country. I'm like, you have to be culturally, um, knowledgeable to be able to step into your customer's world no matter where they are.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I also think in, you know, I'm just going to say it, being a, being African American and being a, ah, diversity, um, um, a diverse person in corporate America. You need to give yourself every opportunity to differentiate yourself and to show more value than everybody else, because there's always going to be that bit of a tax, right? And so I feel like for minorities, I say it all the time for minorities and women. We have to find new ways to make sure that you are number one on the list of resumes and to do that and to further your career. Moving around, going to different places, different environments, different products, it gives you an edge. It gives you an undeniable edge. The reasons I get promoted or get new jobs is definitely not because I'm a diversity hire. It's because I have an undeniable edge that most people don't have. A, uh, breadth in different organizations, but also a breadth in different experiences. And you can see it on their face. You're like, we just hired three. We just interviewed three people. This, this is. This is completely different. You know, I've seen people completely start their interview process over because comparing me to their other candidates, and, okay, we're going to find somebody more like Anthony. And I'm like, good luck. And especially if someone says, hey, you know, um, we're going to go a different direction, I said, you're going to go out there, find a different direction. You're going to spend three more months. But when you come back to me and you realize that nobody has the experience I have, I'll still take your call. That's what I said.

Speaker A: That's so good. That's so good. One of the, the. The badges that I carry, um, is when I was still in the corporate realm, I didn't get every job that I applied for. I didn't get interviews, but every single interview that I sat in, I got an offer for. Because it's that edge. It's how do I captivate them? How do I show them that I'm not a diversity hire, I'm not just a black woman asking for a handout in this organization. I know my stuff, and I'm good. Right? And I think a lot of times, like what you said is as women and as people of color, we just put our head down and work, because that's what a lot of us have been taught to do. We don't know how to advocate for ourselves. We don't know how to step outside of that bubble, push the envelope a little bit, especially in sales. We want you to push the envelope. I, uh, want to see that you do something different. I want you to push back on me in an interview and say, well, you know, I was actually. I did my own research, or this happened. I'm like, Ah.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: You'll do that to a customer, too. That's what we're looking for.

Speaker B: Advocating for yourself is something that's very passionate to me. I is, uh, I use my. My number one person as an example. He, uh, the vice president of LG sent out something, and he put out the rankings and had all the numbers. And he pointed to the number two guy who was a legacy. He had been there forever, and he talked about how great that person is. I replied to the vice president, and I added my person who was actually number one. And, um, I said, um, I don't mean to interrupt you, and I'm going to let you finish in my Kanye voice, but my guy Jake. My guy Jake was number one in the nation. And then I had a picture of Kanye on. On stage with, uh, with the pop singer that he was interrupting, and I sent it, and everyone's like, you're gonna probably. I go, if I get fired, it's going to be a hilarious court case. And he did miss my guy. My guy was number one. And within. It was a long hour. Within an hour, the vice president comes back AS Anthony, you're 100% right. Jake is number one in the nation. I was wrong not to call him out. Jake, sensational job. And I feel like if I'm going to advocate for myself, I'm also going to advocate for my people and show them what it looks like. I stopped national meetings where they said, this person's number one for the. This director is number one. And they've been doing a great job. We're going to move on. Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt you. National manager. I believe. I believe the Southwest is number one. If you look at. Oh, gee, Anthony, you. You are number. These aren't always mistakes. These little. These little misses are sometimes quietly othering people, not just me, and sometimes my team in proximity. And, uh, I do not tolerate it one bit. And the next time you go over numbers, you got to make sure is Anthony. Oh, shoot. Okay. Yeah, he is. We heard. I'm going to say Anthony's team M is number one because he will tell the team that he is number one. And I think that speaking up and making sure that the numbers matter, if you're not going to be. If you're going to be number one, you need to be able to point that out. And if somebody else doesn't point it out, then. Then you point it out, and I'll put it in my presentation, and they'll put. I'll put Jay Z's face In it, men lie, women lie. Numbers don't lie. So let's lie about the numbers. That's why I'm here. That's why I'm in sales. I cannot be denied, and neither can my team, because men lie, women lie. Numbers.

Speaker A: When I tell you, like, everything that you said, it's. I mean, I just. I hope that everyone listening to this episode allows that to marinate, because you don't. You don't win awards, you don't get promoted. You don't become successful by being safe. You will never elevate above where you are. If you always want to be status quo, if you want to be quiet, if you don't want anybody to hear your voice, Right? Like, if it's okay to be different, it's okay to advocate for yourself. And if you're a leader, advocate for your team. And I can guarantee your turnover will go down tremendously. People will be like, I want to work for that person. I want to work for them. And then your numbers will reflect it, because they feel like they're working within an organization that sees them, that hears them, that they know if they work hard, they will be recognized.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: Every time. The biggest thing that happened to me at Whirlpool, um, we had a whole meeting in January, and we had just had a banner year. The best year that Janaire ever had. I was the obviously 400% growth, ridiculous numbers. And we sat there at an awards event, and then they named the top. They had gave somebody award for being the most positive. And then they named the w the big award for the number one salesperson of the year. And the whole room turned and looked at me, and a couple guys came over to me and said, aren't you. Didn't you sell $3 million more than the other person? I say, yeah, what's going on? It's tax. It's a tax. And so being so good and then being outspoken about it, they decided to humble me. And what they said when they gave the, uh, award to the number two person, this is not just about, um, how much they sold. It's about how they went about it, because they were humble about it. And so I brought up my performance review. I was like, I'm number one in the history of this organization. What is this? And they go, well, you need to be a little bit more humble. I said, to think less of myself. You want me to think less of myself? Like, that's not what I mean. Well, Google it. And my manager Googled it. While we're on the Phone. He goes, oh, that's not how I use it. I'm like, that's the definition of the word to think smaller or think less of oneself. So I'm not gregarious, I'm not arrogant, but I do know my value and I do know the numbers. And so I have no, uh, no tolerance for the word humility. On my team, we're going to do. We're going to say what we're going to do, we're going to do it, and then we're going to tell you what we did.

Speaker A: That's so good. It's. I mean, like, again, how does it benefit you to be humble?

Speaker B: Um, never worked for me, not once.

Speaker A: Like, I mean, I just don't. It doesn't benefit anyone. And I. Your store reminded me of the year that I had my son, um, my youngest son. I ended up being number two in sales that year. But I was like, guys, I took six weeks off to have a whole human. I think I'm number one. And they were like, well, you know, this, this and that. And I'm like, it's fine. And the next year I was the number one salesperson. And the year after that, I left. I was like, I'm done with this. Like when, like you said, when people don't stop and recognize the value that you're bringing them, when they don't see that when I make money, you make money. When I do this, it makes the organization better, it makes the shareholders, but it makes all of those things. Like, sometimes I think leadership forgets that.

Speaker B: Well, I think that's also why diversity matters. You know, if you're, um, Native American or Hispanic, you're gonna have more empathy for African Americans and women. That's just how it works. So I've been in a situation where somebody had a child, so they had to take a whole quarter off. So it's 90 days. Their manager, who was working for me, rated them very low in their performance review. And I said to them, you know, when they were off, they had a child. Well, they knew what the rules were when they took the job. And they're the ones who decided to. To get what? Like the amount of biasness that, um, yeah, that, ah, that certain types of people have because they all speak the same language, they all look the same. And if that's your whole management structure, then you're going to have the similar, you know, results and things like that. And so what I did was I went to hr, I changed the rating. Um, that manager was. Was removed from my Region for multiple reasons, mostly because. And then that same person who, who was at first rate or lower that we, we brought up to a good rating is now hitting all KPIs and overextending and doing much better than their former manager did. And so that person knows, okay, my boss saw me, they made sure that I had the time off that I needed. But you're also not being taxed for that time off. I know about being taxed. And I'm not going to let anybody in my organization tax somebody within my team because you're not going to tax me. And so I'm outspoken about things like that. And I think that's the part of, um, uh, diversity that no one talks about. What does it do for other diverse individuals within your organization? Okay, he's black. So if he has a black and pool a. No, no, no, no women, Hispanics, anybody who's othered, I'm going to have more. A different viewpoint of than everyone who is the exact same in the organization. And I think that's, uh, it's always missed. It's always missed how that, that changes things.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's. I call it like that allyship and that advocacy. Right. Like, so really, if you have never had a child yourself, right? But you're like, how is that right? That's not right. And I'm going to advocate for this person because I know what's equitable and I know what's fair. And so when I talk about. I've never been a person that talks that much about diversity or even, um. Uh, I talk about. I don't talk about, uh. Because dei, right? I don't talk about diversity or inclusion. I talk about equity. And when we have broken systems, they don't work for anyone. Right? So it doesn't matter if you're in the majority or if you're in the minority. It's definitely not going to work for you. And it's probably not working for the people in majority either. But if any, no one really taps into that and says, okay, this is an equity problem. How is this equitable across the board? And anything that we do, let's put it past the equity test, that's how we ensure that everybody gets equal access and everybody has the best opportunity for success.

Speaker B: Well, the problem with diversity, equity and inclusion is that whenever everyone says, well, you know, they're anti dei. Ah, they have a problem with dei. I'll stop the meeting. Which, which part do you have a problem with? Diversity? You gonna tell me that when you work for me, or you won't have a problem with inclusion. You don't want people. You don't want women included in the decision making. Is that why you cut them off in the middle of the meeting? Or equity? You don't want things to be fair because it benefits you and how you. Where you come from and how you look. Well, just. Which. Oh, you gotta go. Okay. That's what I. You know, we need now. We need to have some training now. We need to sit down as a team and talk about this. Because, um, when we did a training with my team, we found there's multiple people were adjacent to these things, but they never really saw how it could affect them. And so, uh, you know, I'm not. I'm not one to not talk about it. I talk about it, and I'll do a whole training on my team alone. I want to. I'll give you a quick story taking over the team at 12 employees. I'd be on the phone with my team, and they're like, all right, thanks a lot, bro. Director of sales for the Southwest and the number one appliance, that flying company in the world. And you just refer to me as bruh. Oh, well, you know, I. You know, I know.

Speaker A: I.

Speaker B: You know, I got black friends. I'm like, all my friends are black. I don't call my boss bruh. And it got to the point where my manager, my director, my senior director was like, oh, well, he has, uh, he has black people in his family. I said, my entire family's black. I don't call you bro, do I? And it's this level of ignorance that if you don't call it out and you don't speak about it and you don't address it, then it will. It will continue on. And they expect people who are different but to just be happy to be there. Especially when you have people reporting you and things like that. I don't mind a little bit of conflict. I believe friction creates fire.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. And it's in the moment. Don't let it marinate and go back in two weeks, like, in that moment. Because if you don't address it right then and there, then it sits. It festers, and people forget, and they're like, oh, I didn't really mean that I should say.

Speaker B: I've got. I used to get spankings, and this is a long time ago, but when I was a kid, I used to get spankings in the store. And I'd be like, mom, why wouldn't you Wait till I got home. And she's like, you get effed up where you mess up. Wow. And I had to do the same thing. And it doesn't matter whether you work for me or I work for you. If I'm on a call and you. And this happened not too long ago. So I was on a call. The senior director said something that I felt was sexist. I addressed it right then in front of everyone. This is what actually happened. He had some bad information and I addressed it right then and there. Not that that that person was in the room with us, but it doesn't matter. In the room with me. This. You wouldn't have said it if that person was in the room with this. And so I'm going to talk like they are in the room with us.

Speaker A: And Anthony, this has been an amazing episode. Um, you dropped so many gems. And as we wrap up, I would love for you to share a piece of advice that you would give to your younger self when you first got started.

Speaker B: Piece of advice to my younger self when I first got started, it. Oh man. Absorb. I would say learn from all of the. Learn from all the failures and learn more from the bad managers than, than the good. Mhm. Really? Really? Absorb. You know what you don't want to be so that when you get in a position of power, you won't be it. Because there's, there's benefits to what they're doing. There's benefits to being a gatekeeper. There's benefits to hiring people just like them. And if you don't acknowledge that on your way up and throughout your career, once you get there, it's easy to go and do the same exact thing that they've done. Because now you have a different perspective, you're in a different tax bracket and you want to protect that. And we don't only have these type of managers. Um, uh, one thing I think I also, I would give my older self advice for my younger self. I used to do this when I was in sales, especially in Houston, Texas. I had a really tough customer. I would have the VP from, uh, headquarters in and we'd be walking into the customer. I'd say, one second, I forgot something. Something. I would open up my car door and throw, pretend to throw something in and shut the car door and lock it. And they'd be staring at me like, what did, what did you put in your. What was that? I thought I forgot to leave my feelings in the times a sales call, they're going to come at you in a personal way. But you're representing a, ah, bigger entity, things that you had no, nothing to do with and you have to be able to take that on the chin but you can't take a person. So I used to, I need to do that more, go back feelings in my car.

Speaker A: That's good now and that is a word to end on. Uh, leave your feelings in the car because sales is hard and if you wear your emotions on your shoulders you will never be successful.

Speaker B: True, very true. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Well Anthony, this was a fantastic episode and if people want to get in contact with you, if they want to chat more with you, what is the one best way for them to Anthony

Speaker B: Williams MBA on LinkedIn. That's the best way.

Speaker A: Uh, awesome. Well thank you so much for your time, your talent and your expertise today.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.