Unlocking the Secrets of Entrepreneurial Growth

Speaker A: M welcome to the Family Office Success podcast where we explore the strategies, the insights and the best practices that help families and their advisors build and manage successful family offices. I am your host, Kristi Van Wright, and each episode we dive into the key elements of running a family office. Whether you're a family looking to structure your advisory team for long term success, or you're a professional managing the complexities of a multi generational enterprise, from financial oversight and operational efficiency, to selecting the right advisors and creating a lasting legacy, this podcast is here to provide practical guidance and expert perspectives.

Speaker B: Let's get started. Welcome back to the Family Office Success podcast where we talk all things family office. Today's conversation is with Chris Reynolds. And the previous conversations I have had with Chris have been so fun and so enlightening to figure, uh, out what does success look like and how do you design life? Not just bits and pieces, career, family, how do you bring that all together and how do you be very intentional about it and what holds people back like that? That conversation we, Chris, that we had last month, I think we was just, I left thinking, oh my goodness, this is so exciting. And I think more people need to hear this conversation to understand, hear how other people are doing it. So with that, Chris, I'm going to ask if you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background. What got you to where you are today and what are you doing with families?

Speaker C: Now that's a broad question. What am I doing with. So I'm a podcaster like yourself. I've been podcasting since 2015 now. So I've been in the game for quite a while. And I started my podcast just because I wanted to have like exciting conversations with other founders and I wanted to get access to them. Um, and so my first series on my podcast starting in 2015 was a hundred entrepreneurs that had built $100,000 business or larger. And at that time, like that was the biggest like that I could think of. So I did that series, it was 100 episodes. And then afterwards I was like, whoa, what's next? And then I decided I would like to interview a hundred people that have built a million dollar businesses and larger. So then I went and did that, which was a cool experience, took a couple years. And then I was like, well, what, what series can I do next? And I was like, well, um, I like growing with the podcast and learning and growing my network. So let's interview a hundred people that have built eight and nine figure businesses. And so we did that series, which was quite cool. That episode connected me or that series connected me with a lot of household names in entrepreneurship. That series is when I got to Alex Rosi on the podcast, Chris Voss, the FBI hostage negotiator, some professional athletes, Laird Hamilton, big wave surfer, top neuroscientists, authors, New York Times bestsellers. So I really got comfortable talking to some of the most successful people that are kind of household names in entrepreneurship and personal growth. And so then after that, I was like, well, I've been podcasting for quite a few years now. What's next? And I had this little whisper in the back of my brain saying, interview billion dollar founders. And I thought to myself, no, that's ridiculous. That's way too far for me. That's even too high. I don't know how that would happen. And I thought about it and I sat on it for six months, eight months, and I thought to myself, if I was going to make a list of my favorite billion dollar founders, who would I want to interview? So each series, that's what I would do. Make a dream List of 100 dream people I would put. I, uh, would want to interview. So I made the list and then I realized I went through my previous series, the eight nine Figure Founders, and I started looking for contacts for the billion dollar founders in that series. And I realized I had already interviewed three people that had built billion dollar companies, three or four. And I didn't even really think about it. And I thought, whoa, I already have access to some of these people. Let's just keep going, let's try it again. So I went out again and just started reaching out to people, telling them that what I was doing, that was about 40 episodes ago. I've interviewed over 40 founders of billion dollar companies, which has been, I don't know how to put it in words, unbelievable. Still, for my brain to conceptualize that I'm actually doing it, but also getting to the point where I'm, um, quite comfortable with these individuals now. And I made a lot of contacts and friendships and collaborations with these individuals. So if one of them comes on the podcast and I asked them at the end of the podcast, who are you looking to connect with or what problems are you looking to solve? Um, I can then connect them with other people at that level. And then my social network even goes up significantly just because I'm connecting billion dollar founders to billion dollar founders. So throughout this time, Christy, what I did is as I was expanding my network, I did two things. I would travel around the world and I'd create dinners for founders. And I would just put dinners together and put people together and help them connect and solve problems. And then also I created a paid community of founders as well. And so they would come in and I would give them access to people that I had on the podcast as long as it was a win win situation, and then help them grow and scale their companies. So that's the overlapping view I've had. I have some other businesses that I've built over the years, some successful, some not so successful, and that's me. That's what I do. And short five minute introduction.

Speaker B: It's perfect. So what I love about what you've been focusing on for, through the podcast, through your interviews, is that how are other people doing it? And how do we connect people to others who have done it before them? I was, uh, chatting with someone yesterday and the conversation was, I think, very similar in that entrepreneurs and by extension families, they go through these cycles. And when you're a young founder versus when you've been in the business for about 10 years, once you hit six figures and you're like, wow, this is a big deal, things are going. And then you hit. And then you hit nine, you're like, oh, things are different now. I have to figure out how to do things differently now. And then as you go up, the same thing happens. It's just sort of this cycle. And when you're in it as, especially as the founder or as a new family that is learning what it means in this new money era that they find themselves in, because a lot of founders, it is their first business or it is their first business that has then scaled their wealth. And so the same or very similar questions, they find themselves all having similar questions. And so to have the ability to say, you know what, I know someone who has been in a very similar position. Let me make a connection. Because ultimately, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. And yes, everyone m is a unique snowflake, I get it. But also, a lot of those challenges really are the same. They have nuances, of course, but they really are the same. And so if you can connect a family connection, entrepreneur to others who have been there and done that, and they're like, oh, yeah, I tried that, by the way, that went terribly. Don't do that again. Don't do what I just did. But here's how I actually got it to work, that is just invaluable on so many levels.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. What has been really unique, Christy, is like seeing the difference in mindset over the years between 6 figure 7 figure, 8 and 9 figure and 10 figure founders and how they think. And uh, there's a significant glass ceiling for people that are at six figure levels trying to get to the seven figure level. And even people from like early seven figures up to 5 million or so, there's another glass ceiling there. But I find when people like hit eight figures plus all those like limitations of what they thought they could create and what's possible for them and their business starts really go out the window. A person may hate like eight figures, like say they have $10 million in revenue per year or $10 million business. Then it's like possibilities start to like diminish. Excuse me. I guess insecurities or limitations start to uh, just start to fade away. And then even more so as they get into like 20 million, 30 million, 40 million, 50 million, then it's like they feel very limitless. And especially plus 50 million, there's not too much difference between the mindset of plus 50 million to nine figures and then beyond. And then the billion dollar founders, like there's just no limitation. A lot of them just never had limitations to start out with. They just believed in whatever product or service they're offering. They really believed in it and they were passionate about it and they hit the right market at the right time with their product and then it just uh, scaled significantly and they never really go back because like they, they did it once and they know that they can do it again and it's possible again. And so it's interesting to see the different mindset because other than like market, uh, being available for whatever product or service you have, as long as that's there, the only thing that's really stopping a person is their mindset and what is possible and their ability to build a team and a business around that. And when you can start removing those, those limitations, then people really grow and they scale. That's why I wanted to bring the billion dollar founders in. Because when an individual gets around them or listens to them or has direct access to them, all of a sudden everything that, all those numbers and limitations really just start to go away. And what's possible for an individual starts to expand significantly. And it's really cool to see.

Speaker B: It's uh, interesting. It's, I do a lot of meditations and the thing that always comes to me is think bigger, think bigger, Christy. What else could this be? But if you don't have anyone to look at, that's kind of, it's hard. Like I've had to go out and seek who do I. Who has already done it? No, our space is a little unique, but reality, like, who has already thought bigger, who's already done it? Like that's. It's like you need. It's like not starting from a dot, a blank page on a Word document, just someone saying, oh, yeah, I did that. And then I went on to do this. And then you're like, oh, that's possible. So the idea that you're showing people what else is possible when they don't. It's hard to dream it when you haven't seen a version of it before.

Speaker C: Yeah. And you think about the, um. So think, for example, the time and energy it takes to raise a hundred thousand dollars versus a million dollars versus $100 million. It's really the same exact thing. It's all one conversation with the right person and.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker C: And then that's it. And then it's just a transfer of money. So what's there? It's the limitation of the individual's mindset, the leader's mindset, and, and also the limitations of the business in the marketplace. And you're right, like things like meditation and understanding our own personal mindset and our limitations is incredibly powerful because then we can just start to blow them out of the water and grow and do amazing things.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you start getting little wins. Then you're like, oh, okay, okay. Which I would, uh, presume that once you start getting to the like seven figures and then eight figures, nine figures, and certainly the billion dollar families, they might have had the trepidations and then they figured out how to get over them. And so you just keep getting the wins. And then by the, by the time you get to that point, you're like, of course this is possible. What else do I want to do?

Speaker C: Yeah, I interviewed one guy, his name is Jeffrey Kent, and he's the owner of Abercrombie and Kent, not to be confused with Abercrombie and Pinch, the clothing company. Abercrombie in Kent is one of the largest luxury travel companies in the world. I think it's a $2.2 billion company. Jeffrey's about 80 some odd years old now, but he started his company in the 70s when he was a young guy and he, it took him 10 years to make his first million dollars. And even on like year seven, he was still struggling to get by just hustling. He's from his company started in South Kenya, and he's working and putting on these safari, luxury safaris in Kenya and Not making a lot of money. And he actually had the idea of like, how can I get the wealthiest clients in the world? And so he figured out where at the time one of the wealthiest guys in the world was David Rockefeller, which was the, the CEO of Chase Manhattan Bank. But the bank, his office was in New York and Jeffrey was in Kenya. So he hustled up some money to buy a plane ticket to go knock on the door of David, uh, Rockefeller and offer him a free safari. This is probably around 1980, early 80s or so. And he said, Chris, like, It took me 10 years to make my first million. On year 10 I made 1.5 million. He goes, but year 10 to 20, that was nice. And in year 20 to 30, that was real nice. And so now Jeffrey is one of these guys now he lives in Monaco. Like he has the boats, he has the planes and all the things. But again, he put decades into his business and it was consistency in small things over and over and over again. And now he has $2.2 billion company.

Speaker B: So that's a wonderful story. Usually the overnight success does take somewhere around the 10 year mark to, to get there or.

Speaker C: Yes, or it's high. If somebody does have like a true overnight success, it doesn't mean they can actually do it again. It doesn't mean they'll keep the money. Quite often if they don't have the longevity that they'll keep the money. Like most lottery winners, I think within three years or five years or 85% of them have lost it. All. Right, so you need that time to become a good steward of money and learn how to remake money, how to fail, how to keep going, be tenacious, and it's all part of that process, I think.

Speaker B: I love that you said learn how to fail because that, uh, as a entrepreneur to entrepreneur, I mean, that's a, uh, if you don't, if you don't ever learn how to fail, man, this gets even harder if you don't learn how to do that. So fail fast, fail well, and keep on going, and know that you got to put a few years behind you usually to make it work. So you've had all of these wonderful conversations. Are there other things that seem to be, that stick out in your mind that are super like, you hear them over and over, they're just, they're very consistent and that they always come up in these conversations that you're having. Anything that you're like, oh, yeah, okay, check, check that one. Put another mark next to that idea.

Speaker C: Absolutely, yeah. One of the Things is, you know, when you hear this advice, quite often the advice you get from billion other founders is not that much different than what you can find on YouTube or podcast or whatever. But when you hear it from those individuals, especially in person, it's differently. And you're like, oh, okay. So one of the things that comes up, like billion dollar founders have blinders on. They truly believe that their thing is their only thing. It's their one thing. It's giving value to the world. And they're not like, oh, let me start this side hustle while I have this business or I'm getting into this crypto thing or this AI thing or this NFT thing or whatever new thing is up for the time period. They're like, no, my thing is a thing. This thing is going places, we're going to make it go places. And there's nothing else. There's like they may start another second business or other investments after their thing has gotten to a certain point and then they've exited or taken a lot of money out or they have the time mental capacity. But none of them ever was like, let me start this other side hustle. Now I know there's true like serial entrepreneurs that are out there that can't not do that. And they're quite amazing individuals as well. Most of the time though, from my experience, they're not people that build billion dollar companies. There are people that may build multimillion dollar companies and many of them, but not like the billion dollar companies. So that's it, that's one thing. And then we did this, we did an event last year with Jeff Hoffman. Jeff Hoffman's the, uh, founding CEO of Priceline, which became Booking, and he also invented the airport check in kiosk. And he also created a music production company with Pitbull, Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake and Elton John.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: And yeah, so he's one of the diverse. He can do. Yeah, he does a lot. He does, he makes magic. And anyway, one of the things he reiterated, so we do private events with 30 people or so and one billionaire billion dollar founder. We do this once or twice a year and we go to wherever they're at and we get like a day or two with them. And so while we're there, Jeff just kept reiterating, find your gold medal. Find your gold medal. Find your gold medal. Which means what are you really great at? Stop doing all the other crap. Literally stop working on your SEO or your SOPS or running your operation if you're not good at it. If you're good at marketing, don't do anything else. Bring in the people. If you're great at operations, do that. If you're great at whatever being the CEO, do that. If you're great at building teams, do that. Don't do anything else. And he would just say over and over again. And a lot of the people in the audience, like, we know that advice. We've heard it a thousand times, right? But when you hear it from a guy like Jeff Hoffman that's built a couple billion dollar companies and another $500 million company, you're kind of like, all right, maybe I should actually listen to that a little bit more seriously. And so a lot of the people in the audience, like that was just about a year ago when we did that event. And a lot of people in the audience, they were just like, all right, I've got to stop doing all this other stuff. I've got to focus only on marketing. I've got to focus only on the bigger vision of the company. I've got to focus only on team building. And so many of them are just so grateful that they did. And they were like, why didn't I do this sooner? And so you get a lot of that advice that we hear all the time that you've probably heard on every other podcast or you've probably heard on every other Instagram reel you've been scrolling through, or on Shark Tank or whatever. But, uh, when it hits deeper, when you hear from those individuals, it hits deeper and you're just, okay, this is really how I need to start changing things.

Speaker B: So, yeah, so for the founders who are, they've been in it, maybe they're in the six figure. They're moving into the seven figure. You talked about that there are some glass ceilings that are coming at various levels. What do those tend to look like if you have any ideas there?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's really. Well, it comes from a few things. One, a person's upbringing has a lot to do with it. So if you grow up in a family, uh, that's not entrepreneurial, a lot of individuals, if they can start a business, especially if it's online and it's remote, when they hit a million dollars, they think they've made it. They're like, oh, my dad was a construction worker. My mom worked for, you know, she was a secretary. I have a million dollar business and I can run it anywhere in the world because of the computers and the way the Internet is, I've made it. But if you look in the numbers of that business, they're probably paying themselves no more than like $70,000 a year because they have high margins and a lot of expenses and they have good sales and marketing. But their operations are a bit messy and their team building, like they think they can replace themselves, but they can't really. They have a hard time replacing themselves at this point because the team and the culture isn't really set and there's not a good foundation for it yet. And the finance is all over the place. It's them just like pulling money out of the business whenever they feel like it sort of thing. So it's still really not a properly, not a proper business that could run on its own where you can bring in a CEO and they can just take it. It's more than a hobby, but it's also not like it's not uh, quite often not a business that's even sellable because it's still missing some important pillars in it. So when an individual thinks to themselves, I have a million dollar business, I can do this anywhere in the world. I can, I have all this freedom and liberty. They think they have the gym, but then when they go to sell it or step away from it or get somebody to replace themselves, then they always, they all of a sudden they get this reality check where I'll have a lot more to do with this business to make it to exit and live the good life sort of thing. So you hit that and there's a dynamic and I think it's based on how a person's raised and what they believe a million dollars is, because a million dollars in a business is a small business nowadays. And it doesn't mean you're making, you're even taking that much money home or making that much profit. Right, right. And depending on what the business. So that's a glass ceiling. And also when people hit seven figures, then they start to really step into team building. They're like, oh, this thing has momentum, it has some wheels, I can start building a team. But then they have the money to start building a proper team, like bring in some decent A players, bad uh, people that they're outsourcing, you know, in different countries in the world to save a buck. It's like bring in some top elite executives, bring in a top marketing person, bring in a top finance person, a top cto or now we need top AI people. Right. And pay them well. And that's one of the things, the commonalities with billion dollar founders as well, they say don't hire three employees at $50,000 each. Hire the best person you can find only one of them at 150,000 because uh, they're going to pay dividends over and over again because you're actually bringing a players and they're going to raise the bars for everybody. So that's the glass ceiling, then 4, 6 to 7 and then even going 7 to 8. There's other limitations based on a person's perspective of themselves and then how they can even build it and then challenges with the team building and other departments in the business. It's the best personal growth seminar you can take is being an entrepreneur. Because you're always going to continue. There's always another thing to learn every year, every month, every week it seems like. And when you get to a certain place, it's like, no, there's more to learn. And a lot of these in our group we have a good amount of like eight figure founders. And when a person hits eight figures, there's a, there's a glass ceiling there too. They're kind of stagnant. They're like, okay, well I've got money, I've got to provide a home. My finances, I can, I have money for investments, I'm doing pretty well. I've got an eight figure business, it's running decently, the market will hold up. The eight figure business. Then they lose their drive because it probably took them 10 years to get there anyway. Right. And that, uh, I don't know if I want to continue to grow, I don't know how to grow or if I should just take it easy and play with my kids or something like this. And then when you get the billion dollar founders in front of a lot of those eight figure people, it creates that spark again of what's possible. And all of a sudden then they're like, oh, okay, they get that passion back.

Speaker B: So I want to translate something that you just said, uh, from the entrepreneur founder world over to the family world. Because most of our families are entrepreneurial and oftentimes I found we talk to a lot of families and we're not bright for every family. And that's okay. Like, well, I would rather find you someone who's good for your family in the time period that you were in. But the thing that strikes me that you just said is for an Entrepreneur, don't hire three $50,000 B players, hire the $150,000 A player because they are going to pay dividends to what you're. That 150. You may pay them 150,000, but you're going to get 300,000, 450,000. Half a million. You're going to get such a high ROI on that person that, yeah, you're gonna have to manage the 3B players that you're paying lesser, but it feels better because you're paying less money. I'm not. I get it. But also, I feel like we have something. A very similar context in the family office space where families are like, I don't think I really want to. I'd rather just have this person do this and this person do this. And it's. It's okay if they're not quite talking. Like, actually, it's not okay that you. You need to manage the business of the family. You need an A player. And that does not usually mean hiring several B players. It's hiring one really good one to oversee. And so what I want people to hear, families, if you're listening, is it's the exact same concept. You're running the. When you're running the business, you hire the A player. You hire the one that's going to give you the highest ROI for your money. It's the same thing when you run the business of the family. Hire the A player because they're going to run circles around everybody else, and they're going to push you forward much more quickly than just like, in the business that gave you the. That you built the wealth in. It's the exact same thing.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: You've had such fascinating conversations with people. Is there anything else that you're like, I would want somebody to know that throughout all of our conversations, like, this was the nugget that I've taken away from conversations at any level. For a founder who's hearing and is thinking about, okay, I'm at six figures or I'm at seven figures. And, yes, I do feel like I'm hitting a ceiling or just because I know those folks have such incredible wisdom to share.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. One of the things is, and this is easy to do as you grow as an entrepreneur, the communities you start out in aren't going to be the communities that can take you to the next level. That can be really hard to hear because you love those communities and you love those tribes. Like, I was a digital nomad, like, nine years of my life. Right. And one of the communities I was a part of for nine years, I was a leader in the community. I'd done a lot. I met some of my best friends in the community. I traveled the world. I went to conferences all over the world. And it came to a point where I was like, I can no longer be a member of this. I was meditating one day and it just came to me. I was like, I need to leave. And it was a shock because my identity was wrapped up so much in that community and my tribe and my people and some of my best friends. And it took me quite a while before I actually stepped away because it was just such a shocker. But at the same time, when I did, finally it left a vacuum of one, a community that I could build and to other communities that I needed to become a part of to kind of take me to the next level. So what I hear from so many people and one of the reasons we built. We have a community called M3. Uh, one of the reasons I built it is because I heard so often that people were tired of being the biggest person in the room. And quite often my friends or people I know would go to a conference and they would pay sometimes a lot of money to go to that conference, and then they realize they're the most successful or one of the most successful people in the room. And then everybody's coming up to them asking questions. And I feel like I should be getting paid to be here, and I'm not.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And so this, yeah, this is another reason why I started doing events with Billion Dollar Founders is because a, uh, lot of people said to me, I'm tired of being the biggest person in the room. Like, connect me with some more. Like, make me the smallest person in the room. Chris.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: And I was like, that sounds like a great opportunity. So we started doing that and it's really refreshing because you don't want to let go of. It's kind of like maybe the high school sweetheart that a person has, and then they go away to college and they don't want to let go of that relationship, but they know they need to because they're going on different sides of the country to college, and they still love and care for that person. But it's still. And it hurts. But at the same time, you needed to grow into your next phase of life, right? And sometimes you have to do that with your communities. You have to break up with your communities and go find another one. And it's hard, it's not easy, but it's worth it. And especially if you go and seek out really good communities that you like, because sometimes you grow faster than your community does, and that's okay. One of the communities, I was a part of that one for nine years. I used to say to everybody, wait until this community isn't at this stage 10 years from now, but say, just imagine this group 10 years from now. And the problem is I grew too fast and the group didn't grow as fast as I did. And all of a sudden I was waiting for that 10 year mark, but it was still like five years down the road. And I was like, I'm, um, being actually held back and I need to make a leap into another one. And a lot of people were shocked when I did it because I was significantly well known in the community. And I was like, listen, guys, there's like no hard feelings, but I just like, I've got to grow. And going into a new community is what I needed. And building my own community was what I needed. And yeah, so I think that's some really good advice.

Speaker B: I think that is fantastic advice. It is advice that is hard to hear, I think, for a lot of people. And again, to translate that across, not just for personal growth, for the entrepreneur's growth, because the fact of the matter is you do need people who are better than you. There is nothing I love more than knowing that I am like at the bottom of the smart list when I walk into a room, because that's my opportunity, right? That's how I learn. That's how I like, oh my gosh, that's possible. Uh, amazing like that. That just adds to my creativity. It's the same inside of business. The people that start with you aren't always going to be the ones that are going to get you to the next level. And that is hard because they've been with you and you love them, but they're not always the ones that can make it happen. When you start your family office, like the sweet bookkeeper that you've been had for 30 years is amazing. And they got you through the time that you needed their skill set, but now you're three generations in and you really need a different skill set to manage what's in front of you. So I think that is a kind of an across the board challenge and opportunity for all of us to recognize and really to ask is, can we get to the next level together or has this been great for the time that we're together? And I can't thank you enough for where you've gotten us thus far, but we have to grow. And yeah, uh, yeah, there's a reason that a lot of founders need to bring in a CFO or a CEO or a coo. Families too. You get to a point that if that is not your. If that is not in your zone of excellence, to quote a Dan Sullivan, uh, you got to bring in other people to continue pushing higher in whatever it is, business, life, family, all the things. Well, Chris, I think that was an excellent nugget to wrap up our conversation with. Anything else. Any other last comments that you want to throw out there before we wrap up?

Speaker C: I think a good analogy, piggybacking up what you said, Christy, is you think about, uh, a Super bowl team or world championship team, how often are they recycling people on that team? And it's quite often, right. If somebody wins a Super bowl, they might replace one or two players for the next season. If they win another one, maybe one or two for the next season, but then they don't lose one, they don't do so good the next year, then they replace three or four, five, six. So we can learn a lot from professional championship coaches because they have to consistently make the hard decisions to recycle players if they want to become a championship team. Right. And we have to do that as entrepreneurs as well, because if we don't, then the business will be stale, stagnant, and it won't grow the way that, you know, I think everybody, or at least I think a lot of people want it to grow, you know, and to the level that it can. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think if anybody gets into business thinking, I'm just going to build a mediocre business, this is not the game for you to be playing. This is not a. Entrepreneurship is not for the weak of heart. That is for sure.

Speaker C: It is not. It is not awesome.

Speaker B: Chris, thank you very much for spending your, uh, time with us this morning. I so appreciate you doing it and passing on some of these things that you've learned over the years from the other entrepreneurs that you've been gotten to meet and have conversations with. Where can people find your podcast? Because that is going to be the place to go to get more of these insights and tidbits. How do people find your podcast?

Speaker C: We're on all the platforms. It's called the Business Method podcast. Also the businessmethod.com and then our founders community is called M M3 Club if you guys want to check it out.

Speaker B: Okay. And we will link to all of those in the show notes. Highly encourage everybody who's listening to go and check those out. Chris is an incredible human being and facilitator and I think you're going to really enjoy listening to what his folks have to say. So Chris, thank you again and have a great rest of your day.

Speaker C: Thank you, Christy.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining me today on the Family Office Success Podcast. I hope you found this conversation insightful and valuable as you navigate the complexities of family office services. If you're looking for more ideas or resources or, uh, want to explore how we can support your family office or your family through services and training and strategy, connect with me on LinkedIn or visit our website at whiteriverconsultants.com and be sure to subscribe to our newsletter for updates and expert insights. And if you're ready to take your family office to the next level, consider joining our Mastermind, where we can help you manage that chaos and create better outcomes for the families you serve. Until next time, I'm Christy Van Wright and this has been the Family Office Success podcast. Take care and keep building for the future.