E229: Helen Lord - From Dragon’s Den to Marketplace Leader Helen Lord Explains Sustainable Retail

Speaker A: Sustainability in retail, I believe, is not quite there yet.

Speaker B: I'm just getting flashbacks to when we changed our kitchen and bathroom and, um, everything over, uh, lockdown sort of thing a few years ago. And yeah, we had a lot of stuff left.

Speaker A: People genuinely don't know how to progress with that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, we say they haven't got the time, but they haven't got the knowledge either. And it becomes quite scary. Scary.

Speaker B: You got into the probably homes of so many million UK and worldwide, um, listeners, um, some time ago on Dragon's Den. What really happened maybe when the camera stopped rolling.

Speaker A: There's lots that go on, um, after the camera is rolled, but there's also an awful lot that goes on before you even get there.

Speaker B: Hi, everyone, it's Richard Hill here.

Speaker C: Welcome back to the E Come at One podcast. Today I'm joined by Helen Lord, founder of Rehome and a marketplace built around helping homeowners and businesses give kitchens, bedrooms and bathrooms and other interiors a second life, rather than seeing them go to waste. In this episode we talk about what it really takes to make sustainability work in retail, how Helen has built trust in a high value resale category, and why making reuse easier for both buyers and sellers is a much bigger challenge than it might look from the outside. We also get into the re home journey, which is what happened after Dragon's Den, the role partnerships play in growing the business, and some of the lessons Hearns has learned around brand marketplaces and

Speaker B: technology along the way.

Speaker C: What I like about this conversation is that it's honest. It's not sustainability as a buzzword. It's a grounded look at what it takes to build a business that's commercially viable, operationally sound, and still rooted in doing something genuinely better.

Speaker B: So if you're interested in E commerce

Speaker C: marketplaces, sustainability or founder led growth, this episode is well worth a listen. Now do me one quick favor, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening, so you never miss an episode. Let's dive in.

Speaker B: Hi, Helen, how are you doing?

Speaker A: I'm great, thanks. Good to meet you.

Speaker B: Uh, nice to meet you too. Looks very sunny where you are in the world.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, don't hold your breath. We're in the Northwest, so it's known for being a bit gray in these

Speaker B: parts, so it could be, um, hailstone and snow before we finish the episode. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming on the show. Really looking forward to getting stuck in. So a lot of brands talk about sustainability, but I know Re Home is a business that's built on it, you know, what actually makes sustainability sell rather than just sound good, would you say?

Speaker A: Okay, I mean, I will start with probably what is quite a controversial, um, answer for you. So sustainability in retail, I believe, is not quite there yet. I believe, and we'll get into the bones of this later in terms of consumer research and positioning, but it's still a nice to have, it's still an add on. It's not necessarily a key driver, especially when we look at, um, higher value purchasing. Um, sustainability, if you think about it with the car industry, is linked to cost saving and it's the cost saving they tend to drive more than the environmental aspect. So yeah, the decision, the purchasing decision is normally made in a, in a twofold position with sustainability coming as an add on at the end, which is disappointing. But for a business like ours, you know, you have to keep your core vision and mission. Um, and um, as you know, we're a marketplace, so we're a B2B to C marketplace, which means sustainability is perhaps more crucial and important, um, with regards to our B2B relationships than it is with our B to C relationship. So it's a fine balance for Curry Home.

Speaker B: Yeah, isn't it just? Isn't it just? So we'll get into that a little bit more as we seduce the one as we go. We'll break that down for sure. Um, so obviously, um, I think you got into the probably homes of so many million UK and worldwide, um, listeners, um, some time ago on Dragon's Den. So what was that like? What was it, you know, what really happened maybe when the cameras stopped rolling and I know obviously Deborah invested. How's that, how's that gone?

Speaker A: Oh, well, there's lots to say about that because, um, I did go into it kicking and screaming. I've got to say, I'm not a natural exhibitionist. Um, and it's a very unnatural, very unnatural, ah, situation to be in. Um, there's lots that go on, um, after the camera is rolled, but there's also an awful lot that goes on before you even get there. So you've got about 1% chance of actually being shown on the TV when you look at all the different stages. So we were approached in January 25th, um, and um, that due diligence process with the BBC is very, very centered on. Are your marketing claims correct? Um, can you use this image? That image, Your whole website is pulled apart. All the claims you make are pulled apart and you have to evidence all of them. So that is an awful lot, uh,

Speaker B: of work this is before you're on the show. Yeah.

Speaker A: So the due diligence for the BBC is, uh, forensic. Then you have to go through the pain of screen tests, which are hilarious and really unnatural. Throughout this entire process, no promises are made and, um, you only find out about. Well, they say two weeks before the show is recorded, but we've got four weeks notice, I think, that you're going to be on the show, so you're doing it in the hope that you're going to get there for the entirety of that time. We got, um, notice that in between all of this, our, uh, son, uh, had a wedding booked in, um, Italy. So the day before we were recording, we were traveling back from Italy. So we were practicing our pitch, walking around the swimming pool and getting strange looks off the Italians. So that was a complete whirlwind. The show itself, um, is heavily edited. Um, heavily edited. So I think I timed it and they gave us about 10 minutes of screen time on Draggings Den. Um, but we were actually in the Den recording in front of the Goggins for two and a half hours. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So afterwards you asked what happened afterwards. So there are lots of things that happen afterwards. You have to go back in and do some of the B roll filming. Um, but we were very fortunate in that Deborah was quite excited. Um, so she actually came out of recording to meet with us. Had a lovely chat with her. Um, she's a very generous individual and very, very warm. Very warm. Instantly likable and friendly. Um, so we had a lovely chat with her. Uh, but then the hard work really started after that. So even though you've gone through your due diligence with the BBC, it's very different then. So it's a forensic, big, deep dive into business and that's still ongoing. Um, so, um, we've had a number of conversations with her. Um, she's very busy. Um, and her commitment to the investments she takes very seriously and she does them one at a time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's a watchful space, really.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Emailed her recently and we got some ideas on the table to help. Yeah, the, the, the main thing that Deborah is interested in is not necessarily the investment with us. She loves it and loves what we do and, um, is very keen to put her name to the fact that she supports Lee Home and what Leeholme is trying to achieve from the sustainability perspective. So it's, um, it's a very authentic arrangement that looks like it's going to be moving forward. A friend of Lee Home.

Speaker B: Shall we Say yeah, that's a very exciting, genuine, authentic um, sort of uh, somebody that you want involved isn't it? Which is great. So we'll watch this space, we'll get you back on in a few months time or, and um, have an update on um, on that.

Speaker A: It is, it is a. You know I might sound a bit cheesy here but um, authenticity. Um, and we'll talk about brand later. I know we will but I just want to say that um, as individuals, myself and Bill who founded the business and we have done it from an authentic position. Our journey um, is about us buying a pre owned kitchen. Ah, realising that um, there's a lot of money to be saved here. But also it's a good um, environmental decision too and seeing that opportunity to help owner Holmans. So we have maintained that level of authenticity not just um, with regards to our own journey but trying to support people to do the right thing in the right way but also to commercially benefit. Uh, and that's very strong. That's within our DNA.

Speaker B: That's brilliant. Brilliant. So I think um, you know, I'm thinking about the last uh, maybe four or five years we've been going through um, different renovations and um, in our house and you know a little bit of rehoming I guess is you know, what we've been doing as well and I wish I'd uh, met you a little bit sooner to be fair. Um, but um, something that strikes me is you've got obviously quite these quite um, you know we're not buying a pair of socks online, we're buying something that's quite substantial. We're buying a, you know, pre owned. Obviously you've got various products now but say, say for example a pre owned kitchen, it's not a small decision, it's not something you know, people are used to going to maybe half a dozen or so showrooms and so forth in a traditional way. You know, have you overcome some of those barriers and create a confidence in this sort of high end secondhand market, rehoming market.

Speaker A: We could talk about that for a very long time. But I will try and not be a stuck record throughout the entirety of this conversation. So if I become repetitive, please, please

Speaker B: let me know you're fine.

Speaker A: Fundamentally our journey when, when we looked for pre owned kitchen it was a stick. Suck your finger and stick it in the air. Because the resale market is driven by the buyer and the seller. Normally in the standard marketplace without, without expertise, stuff in the middle to support those buyers and sellers. And we identified this as a nuance, but something that was absolutely vital to, pushed um, a sustainable approach to renovation, I. E. People need help. People who are selling, you know, people who are renovating their home and they look at their kitchen, think, you know this. Actually I feel a bit guilty about this. You know, if it was, if it was a load of CDs, for instance, you'd stick them in a box and stick them in the loft, wouldn't you? Because you know they cost you a lot of money when you bought them.

Speaker B: You've been in my loft, uh, um,

Speaker A: however with a kitchen you can't do that. So this is why regrettably a lot of product, uh, be it kitchens, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc, ends up in the loft because people genuinely don't know how to progress with that. Yeah, you know, we say they haven't got the time, but they haven't got the knowledge either and it becomes quite scary. Likewise the purchasers, uh, in a lot of the traditional marketplace scenarios, um, there it's, it's a lucky bit at best, you know, um, and if you, if the seller doesn't know what information you m. Need and doesn't understand the importance perhaps of some of the damage, whether it's real damage, whether it's something that can be solved, um, so you know, that's where re Home was born really in this understanding the sustainability, true sustainability. For you and me living in our homes, we needed a help. It's not just putting, putting the bin out, the green bin out on a Thursday.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's a commitment. Um, and that's how we've done it. So building trust, um, and I know we'll go into um, how we market rehome but at the end of the day trust and support, um, and uh, ensuring everybody gets consistency of information if they're going to make a purchase is how we've done it in a, in a short form, a real sort of

Speaker B: education help piece where you know, I just, I'm just getting flashbacks to when you know, we changed our kitchen and, and bathroom and you know, everything over lockdown, uh, sort of thing few, a few years ago and yeah, we had a lot of stuff left. You know, it's like what, what to do with it. Didn't know, you know, didn't really, you know, I think you know we did or I won't probably list exactly what we did exactly on the podcast but you know, we, you know, it's like just don't know because it's not something you do very often as a. Changing your bathroom, changing Your changing your kitchen in this instance, you know, it's like a once, twice in a lifetime. Yeah. What to do, how to do the right thing. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's hard to be objective when you've owned the product for a number of years and unfortunately it is human nature and superlatives exist. So you know, you can make something sound absolutely outstanding but if you are creative, uh, with the, with superlatives. So we ban superlatives in the office. You're not allowed to use them in a uh. Because super, superlative set an expectation. So you'll see when you look at our website, we are very factually driven and we use plain language that people can understand and we also offer solutions. So it's about. If I was just going to give you a very short answer um, to that question, it'll be. It's all about building confidence um, and being transparent and unfortunately standard route to market for most pre owned items doesn't have that.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you for that. I think what, what I'm quite intrigued about is, you know, I think you know, we talked to a few marketplaces. Well, I have over the years and you know, with some lot of different struggles around, obviously you've got both sides, haven't you? Obviously you're trying to get obviously people to listen their products.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, but then obviously ultimately you've then got to sell those products for those customers of yours. You know, what's the sort of um, how do you approach that balance from a. Yeah, because that must be really tricky.

Speaker A: It is tricky. Um, and you can add to this dilemma that I had never had, never bought a kitchen in my life and I fell into this. But I think this is where the fairy got comes from. My background is recruitment and recruitment is really, really similar if you think about it. You've got a company wanting to find somebody, you've got a person who's wanting a career, an income and an opportunity and you have the inanimate object which is the job. So it's a three way dilemma. Yeah. Now I applied all the principles from my uh, understanding of the needs in the recruitment world into how we designed this marketplace and operationally how we support it. And I believe that has made it what it is in that there's an understanding that you need a different voice, the government people and um, different people need different things. However, I will caveat that by saying, um, the emphasis on the website is bioleg. So within the marketplace itself it's bioleg, but outside of the marketplace we can offer the necessary support guidance and comfort to a seller. It's not ah, the, the job of the marketplace is to sell and the magic is providing that intermediary between the two and understanding what each party needs. And I believe that's where Rehome sells. Yeah.

Speaker B: So I take note. Listeners, look at what Rehome were doing, I think with, with this sort of. Yeah, it's quite a, um, you know, I think about the probably 255 episodes of podcasts we've done here on our two podcasts. It's very sort of unique, um, business that you've got. Very, you know, maybe I can think of one other company that I know we've spoken to on the podcast. But it, you know, very different industries to be fair. Very, very unique. And I think, you know, is there anything maybe you could share practically from a, you know, from a getting as I refer to it, getting people to list their products. How is there anything practical day to day, marketing wise or you know, how you, you know, is there a specific little nugget you can maybe share? How, how some of these, you know, I'm just thinking as a, you know, if I was redoing my house right now, I'm not doing that again. We've just, we've just come out of about a two year renovation but. And we're about to list.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So we're about to, you know, we've got our, you know, our old kitchen now and we're deciding what to do. How are you getting in the minds of people like me?

Speaker A: Okay, we.

Speaker B: What sort of things are you doing? Just to get a bit, a bit of a specifics maybe if you don't mind sharing maybe some of the things you don't.

Speaker A: No, no, no. So um, what I will say before I get into it is we probably reject about 70% of the product that is sent to us. So that again is another um, change in the standard market price. So I mean I can use the password, I can save of curate, but actually we don't create curate. What we do is we ensure quality, um, and condition. And that's, that's different. That's different. Um, and when we do reject somebody we always give them advice on how to ensure they do the better listings. So um, we do that naturally. Anyway, so the first thing that's important for a marketplace is quality of imagery. Clean up before you take a picture. Make it look as best you can. Clear off all your surfaces, you know, think about would I buy this? Yeah. So we're not saying edit your images or Anything like that. Natural living is absolutely fine. But do wash up, empty the dishwasher and take extensive photography. That photography should also include close up pictures, be a quality for people can groom in and also um, is transparent in terms of any damage. So if there's a piece of damage or a scratch, put a finger against it as a point of size reference and take a photograph, use a ruler, use one piece if they still exist, uh, a pen, anything. So you know, a bit like the old Kirby Kirby cleaner advertising. If you take a picture of a bed bug and it fills a whole A4 sheet, it looks like it's, it's from, from um, a horror movie, didn't it? So get, get your, get your scale right and then it's about measuring. So give people the measurements they need. Yeah, it's really common sense. You know, you're going to want to know how, how wide seeking is, how high something is, how big something is and make that really clear. Don't use superlatives as I've said, you know, be factual. Um, if there is a brand, put that on. Um, and if there is a price that you originally paid for it that helped a purchaser position the value of the price you're selling it at. Uh, and that I believe is absolutely crucial because here's, here's a T shirt. I want five quid for it. If you bought it from Primark and it was 9.99 and, or you bought it from Armani and it was 200 quid, there's a big difference, isn't that?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that, that's some simple stuff. But, but you know, most, most marketplaces have a template which helps guide you. They do, yeah. Um, and the more information you put on that template, the more success you will have. And answer, uh, any questions that somebody gives you answer them really quickly, don't wait three days and respond because they cool off.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm convinced, you know, do a, do a very, very thorough job of listing. But if. How am I finding. How am I finding your, how am I find as a, as a consumer? How am I finding re home? How would I know what. So what I'm sort of asking is, you know, what is probably some of the best marketing channels that you've got? What's working well for you to market Rehome? So people are listing.

Speaker A: Okay. So the beauty of Rehome is everything I've just described to you and SDB for you. So that makes it really, really simple. You just open the door, let us in and we'll do the whole lot for you in terms of marketing. Uh, re home. Um, I am um, 15 years into this journey. 15 years. And um, what I will say to you is there's no magic wand here. So, uh, word of mouth is the strongest and the cheapest to do. As soon as you go um, into the realms of public awareness, the cost is exponential and it's basically what you want to pay. Um, so we spent a lot of time developing our Instagram account. I kind of see Instagram as a foyer of a posh hotel. It's there to invite you in, it's there to make you feel at home and it's also there to show you what's possible. What's possible, possible from if you stayed at this hotel. Whether you choose to stay there or not will be how good a job that reception does and whether it's right for you or not. Yeah. So Instagram is my love. Uh, We've got about 168,000 followers on there and quite a good little community going. The rest of it is straight digital. As everybody, there's your paymax, your, your SEO. I'm doing a lot of work at the moment on aeo, so understanding how um, question based optimization and answer based optimization is working. Um, so that's become really important. But from a B2B perspective we have something that's really unique in that we set up a referral gateway. So if you go into your local kitchen company they may, if they're getting a job offer, you re home for your pre owned kitchen, a new one now that has huge ramifications and it reaches up to manufacturers who have now uh, begun this esg, uh sustainability and waste reporting, um, situation. But I've been writing uh, about him contributing to white paper. So we're on the precipice of something very new. But it's not a new concept because the car industry have been doing it the least.

Speaker B: Yeah, now that's, I uh, I'm um, liking that a lot. So working with partners that uh, are obviously on a similar, ideally similar journey around the esg, the sustainability, you know, like it's a bit like, you know, uh, I think it's like the uh, I mean there's so many industries in there, but when you go and get your tires changed, ultimately you know, they, they slightly different, you know that they should offer to take your old tires off you and then obviously they get used in the right way rather than not getting taken off you and they maybe end up somewhere they shouldn't, um, and not Getting used. But so you're working with partners, which is something we talk about a lot, um, on the podcast, to build. And so you're building that network of partners that are uh, in this, in this instance, you know, kitchen companies maybe that are uh, then they're getting inquiries for new kitchens but obviously those, those consumers have got kitchens they're replacing and those partners are then offering. Well, did you know, re home do this, this and this. Oh, okay, yeah, that's, I like that a lot. Uh, so any, any tips around sort of building that partner network then? Because obviously that's very, very powerful. That's like a little bit of secret sauce there, I think. Building. Yeah, if you share maybe um, any ways to sort of really build that partner network. You know, obviously getting a handful of partners, but is, is okay, but you know, building a, maybe a fairly large partner network now actually have. Is there any tips you give to some of the listeners that are maybe looking to build partner networks across their businesses?

Speaker A: My biggest tip to all of this is, uh, patience, resilience and consistency because changing behavior is so difficult and um, to be in the forefront of a business's mind as an added service is, is tantamount to virtually impossible. So it's constant hen pecking is technically the only way to do it. But we are trying to do it, we are trying to do it in a more professional um, and um, softer way. So giving them the right assets but also continue to build awareness for the public so they understand um, there's a value in uh, pre owned kitchens, bedrooms and bathrooms. And um, I want you, Richard, when you next develop something in your house to go in and say, what are your reuse options? Yeah, and then that'll prom them to go, oh yeah, that, that woman can be home. She sent me all those, she sent me all those QR codes.

Speaker B: That lady who sent 15 emails and

Speaker A: she's always popping, she's always nagging me. What, what's her name?

Speaker B: She's been on about this for years.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's the one.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's, it's really challenging and this is the main reason, this is the fundamental reason that we went on to Dragons Den. It wasn't about investment, it wasn't about ah, personal, personally being on the TV or the thrill of it. It was, this is an opportunity to get into households and build awareness and we cannot say no to that. Even though they have to drag me kicking and screaming into it. Literally.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, and it just sounds like a, you know, a fantastic business, you know, fantastic Business to be. To, to be part of. I think. Yeah.

Speaker A: Challenging.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think, um, if it was a straight line, you know, everyone would be doing it, wouldn't they? So, uh, you know, good, good on you. I think something you, you know, obviously you said, you know, you've been doing this for a lot, quite some time and you know, obviously listening to the episode on Dragon's Den, I m. Think it'd be good to talk about maybe the, a bit of the journey you've had with the sort of website and the development around the website. And I think, you know, a lot of people that will be listening, you know, they've got, they're going through this process of. Quite often, you know, uh, businesses start with an idea and then we, we need a website, you know, and we get a base website up and running and then before we know it, we need a, a lot more substantial website. And then so on. Before we know it, we've gone from one order to maybe 10,000 orders or depending on the listener. Uh, and obviously then we then have to go through the process of deciding and choosing a digital partner to trust and to work with. Any advice, I think from listening to the episode, you could probably write a book on this, um, piece. But any advice you would give to those that are looking to re platform, looking to invest more into their of builds and marketing.

Speaker A: Okay, so this is a reflective learn, all right, Because I'm going to be really, really honest with you. We thought we were the mut nuts when we walked into Dragonstone and we were completely blindsided. We genuinely believed. And um, yeah, if I'm not passionate about it, I wouldn't have been doing it for this long. We thought, this is a great idea, they're going to love it, it's not going to be right for all of them. Um, but we didn't expect the level of criticism that we got from Peter Jones, who was, um. I mean, the edit has changed it, but he pounced on us on the first questions. Um, he was the first start. So we were stunned, to be honest with you. And, um, just because I have the opportunity, I will just say in the two and a half hours they did cut an awful lot out and we were a different position with regards to the advice that we received. We received government funding for scale ups and that funding was to pay for experts to come into our business and analyze the best route forward. And one of those people was in charge of technology. So this person wasn't paid for, uh, this person was supposed to be completely objective and have a very clear view on our uh, vision and our uh, forecasting and um, give us a solution that was correct for us. And um, we've fundamentally, we believe it probably was the right decision at the time because those decisions were made in 22, 23 when nobody was using Shopify, nobody was using it. And I wish I knew that when I was in front of Peter Jones because I would have said Peter, no. Um, so, um, I think to be reflexive, a platform isn't forever. Your platform choice isn't forever because technology changes. It's a bit like your car. You buy a car and it's not forever. Even though it costs you a thinking fortune when you buy it, um, you know your head's turned by something that does something else. Um, so, um, the key learn platform isn't forever. Um, but on the subject of Shockify, um, it has changed so much over the past four years since uh, we were looking at platform choices. And um, it would be silly to ignore such passionate criticism from Peter Gaines, even though I said thank you Peter at the end of it and smirked at him and, and thought, God, I've got a good poker face.

Speaker B: So what are you doing now then with the platform? What's the decision? Can you share or.

Speaker A: Some of the decisions you've made I can share because it's pertinent to your question. So we've gone at it this time, um, from a totally different perspective. So I've analyzed in my very pragmatic brain. Okay, we're not experts. We weren't experts in 2022 and um, we're certainly not experts in 2026 in technology. And I don't believe that's ever going to change. So my advice when you're choosing anything is be an expert in your own business. You don't need to be an expert in the technology, but what you do need to do is stand firm in your questioning. And it's your questioning that is key. And that's the bit we missed really pushing the decision making and um, asking your competency based questions of the technology you're looking for. Not just for um, uh, what you need now, but what you need in the future. Don't be afraid to dig, um, because, or show me how will this look, um, as of visual proof, because you're not going to be an expert and, and that, that can generate inertia in you. You just, you panic and the anxiety of having to make a choice because ultimately um, the other mistake we made was giving accountability to a consultant. Now in our Case this consultant potentially, um, should have been giving us the right decisions rather than, uh, wanting commercial gain from it. However, we gave complete accountability to them and went, okay then.

Speaker B: Yeah, so you trusted them completely. Where should have probably questioned more, um, research more. Yeah. And I think, yeah, it's a, it's a tricky one, isn't it? I think that's what I'm sort of driving at is, you know, you obviously, as a, as a, you know, uh, uh, an experienced business owner, you go to somebody that's been recommended maybe in this instance by the, you know, was it the grant company or the, you know, the, the scheme and so forth, and they've in theory vetted these people and then he's recommending somebody that's maybe not worked out. So you think, well, how. Why is that the case? Should I have done this? Should I have done that? You know, it's, it's, you know, that due diligence that have people, have the people that they're recommending work with people in a similar industry. And that's quite a tricky one for you, but I would imagine because market, there's not hundreds, uh, of marketplaces where there's hundreds of stores selling furniture, but not the way you're selling it, you know, so it's no trying to find, trying to find. If you were to, if you're able to speak to customers of these people that have been recommended, I think, um, but I think if you had to do it again, well, obviously you are doing it again, you know, what advice would you give to the listeners around? Picking the right partners, the right digital partners.

Speaker A: I just thought, quite a funny analogy there. I agree with what you said and that should be appropriate, but I think choosing a consultant, um, or a technology is one little bit like choosing a life partner. You always go into it thinking it's right. You always go in, nobody's going to get married, thinking, this isn't wrong and I'm going to get divorced in five years.

Speaker B: What's the percentage of, uh, divorce on in marriages in the uk? I don't know. It's probably quite, quite.

Speaker A: Richard, if I was looking to get married to you, would I phone your ex wife up for. I wouldn't, would I, Would I get the right answer?

Speaker B: You'd probably find out I was a bit of a sausage if she did that, wouldn't you? Yeah, I haven't got an ex wife, just to be clear.

Speaker A: Oh, so. And I'm not proposing to you Richard either.

Speaker B: Okay. This is a concern, Helen, this one,

Speaker A: but I mean it is, it is, it is a really good analogy because um, with best intentions, etc, when you're working with anybody, you know, you've got. I come from recruitment so we stick to study human behavior. We study the halo effect and it, and it, and it's there, you know, so if somebody is very personable with you and, and makes you feel heard and makes you feel it's very hard not to believe them. It's a human instinct. And this is why I said my best advice is have um. So this time we've gone at it with a structured approach, very structured. And we've made them work from our documentation but rather than work from there, so we've given them not ah, a framed scope. Uh, it's, we want to do this, we want to do that, we want to do the other. This is what's important to us and this is how it affects us operationally. So it's really important and more, more of a discussion document rather than your standard, uh, standard business proposal. And currently it's working quite well because we honor um, uh, a lot of information which helps with this infamous mvp, which I've never heard of until last year.

Speaker B: It's a journey, isn't it? Yeah, I'm sort of, you know, I think it's um, you know, we, we Obviously we've had 100, 150 founders on the, on the podcast and ultimately everybody starts selling one thing all to most, most businesses. And you start, you know, and what's this, what's this Internet thing, you know, back in the day, if it's, it's a business that's been running for you know, 10, 20 years. Um, and then the next thing we've got to make these decisions and we meet people along the way and um, and um, mostly sometimes we have some expensive lessons, don't we, along the way. But ultimately we sort of then start to build as we get established sort of trusted advisors and maybe some advisers we don't then use again. And you know, and building that sort of network of people that we can draw on that sort of um, you know, and no doubt, you know, you, you, you've now built, building that stronger and stronger than ever. Those sort of people that you can, you can draw on and trust and so, but quite a journey, but very exciting. And I think, you know, when I look at the website now and the offer now obviously you've got a, you know, you don't just do kitchens, you know, you don't just offer kitchens, you've got a lot of Other products showing that, you know, how do you decide? You know, I think that's, you know, we talk about this quite a lot. You know, how do you decide? What other sort of categories, um, have you decided? You know, the categories there, you know, the growing the catalog and growing the, the offer. So maybe step through that for us.

Speaker A: Yeah. Again, could be a book. Um, so, uh, we used to be called Used Kitchen Exchange, though our decisions were all based on this. Yeah. So Used Kitchen Exchange is, was absolutely great for SEO purposes. Direct Match Perfect does what it says on the.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but it became apparent that the opportunity for us is much broader than pictures. Plus the fact there was controversy about using the word used. Is used a nice word. Probably not. Not when m. It comes to a beautiful picture. Um, so that's what prompted the brand name change was to diversify and um, be positioned to offer a lot more um, to both our industry and um, to home only. So you asked the question what drives us is the why. And um, uh, we always look for a reason why you should sell it. That's the first thing. And the second thing is um, opportunity and supplies. So within the interiors industry, rehome is set up now where we can sell anything from, you know, an online return for a business, uh, who sells furniture or something like that, who can sell um, uh, through E commerce on the platform. And we can sell appliances, we can sell used sofas, beds, etc. Um, but um, it's the whole interiors. But our key skill is uh, dismantling as well, which is a big thing. A big thing for as you can imagine, a kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, etc. So it's opportunity based. But we do very much stick to our why. So our why is sustainability. So if it helps a homeowner financially, fantastic. And is there a stain of the. With me story around it? Um, and um, that's where we, where we come from.

Speaker B: I love it comes back to the roots of.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Can we help in a sustainable way with a. That's you know. And yes we can.

Speaker A: It's. It's your guide. It's your compass really. Yeah.

Speaker B: It's your North Star, isn't it? If you can, if you can do. You can help in a sustainable way. You know, obviously I can see the, the B Corp, um behind you there and obviously that's, you know, it's a very ugly.

Speaker A: There's a lot there. They're very colorful when you get them and when you put them together they're an interior design nightmare. Yeah. The court we've Also got the Queen's Award.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, which I had to go to booking. I went to Buckingham palace on my own for that. Which is very sad. Very sad because it was post covered and you used to be able to take it down to one.

Speaker B: Oh, that's a shame. But obviously very exciting and it all rolled into one sort of thing. Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker A: I wish my mum had seen it, to be honest with you, because she was a real royalist and if she, if she knew I'd walked. Because you, when you go to Buckingham palace, you go in the front door.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I thought you're going through the tradesman's entrance. You don't. So you know when they're, when they're getting married and you see them coming down the big steps and getting in the car, you go up those. Wow.

Speaker B: Um. Wow. That is incredible. That is incredible. Well, I feel, I feel like, I feel really bad because, um, I feel like we should do a three hour episode because I've. I know, but, but it's um. We're, we're, we're there. I think, um, we've covered a lot of ground there.

Speaker C: A lot of ground.

Speaker B: And I do feel that we, you know, we could have done a lot. I could have questioned you a lot more there, but I think there's been some great, great insights. So maybe, um. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners around the sort of roadmap for, for um, Rehome? Is there anything that sort of, um, over the next 612 months that you're launching that you're excited for, that you want to share with our listeners?

Speaker A: I think we're planning to do more of the same. The technology, um, with Shopify is, has the potential to improve our ux, um, which uh, can be done in a more cost effective way. Um, so that is really quite an exciting prospect for us. Uh, we tweaked our brand a little bit because Stephen Bartlett was quite vocal in the Gun as well, even though that didn't appear on the uh, on the message. Um, but I suppose my, my. For my moment of fame, I'd like to say, you know, when you are renovating home, consider Rehome. Um, because we've chosen that name because it's a verb and yeah, I can re home that. Or let's go to Rehome, see if we can re home something. Yeah, it's powerful. It's very powerful. Although, uh, it's a battle with Battersea Dogs Home, admittedly.

Speaker B: Okay, okay. Yeah, it's one heck of a Domain. I have to say, I do. In a brand, you know. Absolutely. I really, really. That is an absolute find. If you like.

Speaker A: Yeah. Two years of thinking that was, believe it or not, something simple, well done.

Speaker B: We'll maybe get you on again and we can talk about the, you know, that, that one. But I think I like to finish every episode. Helen, with a, uh, book recommendation. Do you have a bit to recommend wirelessness?

Speaker A: I do. And I thought, you know, this is a professional, Professional podcast.

Speaker B: Um, mostly. Mostly.

Speaker A: But you know what I like ch. Trash. I like trash.

Speaker B: Because, uh, you let us have the trash.

Speaker C: Give us the trash.

Speaker A: It. It's good trash. This one, this is called Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine by Gail Honeyman. Now, what's beautiful about the book, and it's probably going to speak to your female listeners more than your male listeners, is it's the human story about an awkward lady who is quite isolated, um, and had some quite serious trauma in her past, which affects how she views people. And as the story of Eleanor opens up, you then go down this journey of, um, understanding how you can change people's lives through kindness. So people that she wouldn't expect to be kind to her, uh, start to open up and the Hue worm opens up for this lady. And it's warm, it's funny, it's got a very powerful message of human connection behind it, but it's great to read on a beach, it's great to read in the doctor's surgery. It's great to read before you go to bed. It will make you laugh, it will make you cry, and it will make you, um, think warm. It'll make you warm. And it shows that, um, kindness changes lives.

Speaker B: Uh, isn't that a. Isn't that a way to end a. Ah. Kindness changes lives. I'm. I'm sold. I feel like I need to book a holiday just so I can read that book. It's been a pleasure. Um, um, for those that, uh, like to find out more about yourself, more about Rehome, what's the best way to do that?

Speaker A: Uh, so our website is rehome.co.uk and, um, any you, any emails, info or hello.co.uk and then you can find me on LinkedIn.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, lovely. I look forward to chatting again. Thanks, Helen. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Richard.

Speaker B: If you enjoy this episode, hit the subscribe or Follow button. Wherever you are listening to this podcast, you're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day and I'll see you on the next one.