139 - The Last Dance

Speaker A: Welcome to M Design Much with Andy and Patrick. Hey, Patrick.

Speaker B: Hey there, Andy. How you doing?

Speaker A: I'm doing pretty good, Patrick. Um, of course, by that I mean just as good as you could be now that the Mexican pizza is coming back to Taco Bell, baby. Which are pretty good tidings.

Speaker B: Those are some pretty good tidings.

Speaker A: It's good compensation for the bad news that Taco Bell recently released. Um. Oh, no.

Speaker B: What's the bad news?

Speaker A: Um, so Taco Bell has a 30 under 30 list for 2022. They released it. And I don't know, I'm a little hurt, but, uh, I didn't make it, Patrick. Actually, we didn't make it.

Speaker B: Well, I don't think we could have made that list, Andy.

Speaker A: You know, with the whole not being

Speaker B: under 30 at all. But, uh, they could have at least considered Some other under 30 categories, you know, besides the age thing.

Speaker A: Like, um, the amount of push ups I have done in my entire life. Under 30.

Speaker B: Exactly. Or like the number of times I've read Pride and Prejudice.

Speaker C: Hold on. Cut, cut. Just. Guys, excuse me. What was that? I mean, do you hate doing this? Do you hate this? Nick. Nick, first of all, you're playing Patrick. Nick, I don't know how many times I need to tell you. You have to say everything in a Muppet voice.

Speaker B: Much more Kermit. Nick. Much more Kermit.

Speaker C: Much more Kermit. You haven't made any jabs at Andy for his taste in soda. Like, nothing about his taste in lacroix, so this is pathetic. And Michael, second of all, your version of Andy doesn't have enough ums. Um, I tried. You need to bring those ums. There's no mispronunciations of words that you're doing at all. You haven't done any awkward pauses. And guys, come on. You weren't doing any giggling. There was just nothing. Like, have you guys even read the script?

Speaker A: Uh, I thought it was obvious.

Speaker C: You know what? Let's take a break, guys. Let's. Can you guys just go wait outside? I need to. I need to talk to Patrick.

Speaker A: Sorry. I'm sorry. All right, all right.

Speaker B: Or just sit over in the corner and be really quiet right now.

Speaker A: All right, we're going. Please, we're going.

Speaker C: Man, Patrick, I don't. I don't know how well this is going to work. And you try to find good help.

Speaker B: I don't know, like, we're supposed to do this every week without any. Any help. And then we finally get some people that we could trust, and then this Is the, uh. This is the. This is the freaking crap we get.

Speaker C: Yeah. Like, this is. This is take 36, Patrick. I don't know if I can do this for much longer. Come on, dude.

Speaker B: This is take 138.

Speaker A: What?

Speaker B: 39.

Speaker C: Oh, well, man. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's getting a little old, but anyway, should. Do you think. Should we just, like, kind of go on without him? Should we just do this episode?

Speaker B: Patrick, let's just finish it off.

Speaker C: Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so what's the topic?

Speaker B: Give us the topic, Andy.

Speaker C: All right, so looking at our long list of topics here, uh, we do have one. This one's pretty interesting and even comes with, uh, some bonus questions in the topic.

Speaker B: Bonus questions. Is it from m. Anonymous this time?

Speaker C: We'll see. This is from, um, it actually is from Anonymous. Yes.

Speaker B: Uh, Anonymous, AKA Jason Metzger, by the

Speaker C: way, who's been sending in all the anonymous ones.

Speaker B: Pretty sure.

Speaker C: So, um, this anonymous, uh, listener sends in a pretty interesting question. When are you going to stop doing the podcast?

Speaker B: Ooh, that's a good one.

Speaker C: That's a. That's a wonderful question.

Speaker B: Is that the. Is that the only. I guess you said there's more, but we should answer that one first, right?

Speaker C: I think so. I think that one. That's the one we should definitely answer first. And Patrick, I'm gonna. I'm gonna give that to you. What do you think? First?

Speaker B: When are we gonna stop the podcast? I think we should stop the podcast right now.

Speaker C: You say laughing

Speaker B: just off the cuff, like this isn't planned or anything. I think we should stop the podcast right now.

Speaker C: Right now.

Speaker B: Maybe at the end of this episode. Maybe not. Just maybe not like right now.

Speaker C: There you go. That's a good one.

Speaker B: But what if this is our, uh. Let's make this one, Andy. Let's make this one our Last episode. Episode 139. Our goal was to get to 140. We're gonna be one short, but we're okay.

Speaker C: Well, we haven't made Taco Bell's 30 under 30. We might as well not make the design much. 140 goal that we made anyway. Let's just fail at everything. Let's do that.

Speaker B: Fell real short, right?

Speaker C: No, but it's true. It's. It's very true, Patrick. We're. We are ceasing. We're. We're stopping this podcast.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker C: Um, we're letting it. We're letting it just lie where it is. I guess it is. I don't know. The Right. Phrase for this. Um, but it's definitely true. Uh, we're gonna go ahead and stop recording this podcast. So I think there's a big question that comes with that. Uh, why are we stopping? Why are we stopping? I don't know, doing this stuff?

Speaker B: Uh, it's a good question, Andy.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Is it because of Michael and Nick?

Speaker C: We can definitely blame them. I think they can share part of the blame.

Speaker B: I think we've had them on too much, and people just don't enjoy it. So it's just time to be, like, done.

Speaker A: No. Why?

Speaker B: Like, for real. Like, for real, Andy? Well, I think. What was it a couple weeks ago I brought to you? I was like, I think I'm. I think I'm done. Because this is. This is a. Uh. Podcasting is surprisingly, like, a decent amount of work, and we don't even do half of it. Like. Like, we don't. We don't really market the podcast. We don't really do anything like that. We just have fun with the podcast, but just things are so busy lately for me that it's like, I don't really have the time and the energy to put into it as much as I would want to. And I feel like it's lacking in the podcast. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I'm feeling similarly. I wish I could give more time and more energy. I wish we could kind of keep going, because I love doing it. I love getting, uh, on a call with you, you know, getting together with you each week and other designers and talking about design, how we can make ourselves better designers, all that sort of stuff. Um, because I've learned so much, but it does take a lot, mentally. Um, physically, I gotta, like, lift a microphone and move it around my desk and plug in all these cables. You know, it's just. It's a lot of work. Not that I don't love it, but it is definitely a lot of work. And I. We've been doing it for a long time. Um. Um, I think we've done it for almost four and a half years. So it's been a while. I think it's definitely been a while. So it's. We. We've gotten on. I think we've learned a ton. I hopefully think our listeners have learned a ton. Um, so I think. I think we've hopefully done some good as part of all of this. And I don't know. I'm not sure we could do it forever.

Speaker B: I don't think so. Hey, I need to ask you another question, but I just want to check on Michael, Michael, are you doing okay? You look a little sad.

Speaker A: I'm, um, shook, guys. Why? I know you just said why, but. I'm really upset.

Speaker B: Um, okay. I just wanted to, I wanted to make sure you were okay. You were just looking a little down. Same with you, Nick. I'm, I'm still just trying to process all this. Like going through the seven stages. Like, you probably saw me throwing books off my shelf. Like, little angry for a moment. I'm, I'm good at, I'm in denial right now. Um, Andy, why? Like, Michael brings up a good question. Why, why, why did, why did we initially start the podcast?

Speaker C: Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, you're, you're the one that did, by the way. So.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. Guys, all of this is my fault. This is all my fault. Uh, and I don't remember the exact reason why I brought this idea to you. I think

Speaker A: fame and fortune, probably.

Speaker C: Fame and fortune. Yeah. I wanted to be in Taco Bell's 30 under 30, you know, but um, no, I, I, I just remember I wrote Patrick a long slack message saying, what do you think about doing this thing? You know, what do you think about learning, uh, how to be better designers through the podcast forum and being able to share this out with others? Right. I think, um, Patrick, you had been working on, you had done a lot of work in the community, um, for, uh, what was that? I don't know, those meetups you did. Exactly. So you've done a lot of work in the community for Product Hive, for lots of awesome meetups in the past. And I said, have you ever thought about doing this in podcast where anybody can listen at any time, learn something and they can go back in the past and listen to something. It's like just possibly a good way to share this information versus just you can only go to a lunch, you know, eat some, some pizza, some Domino's and listen to something new. Um, uh, I think that's kind of how it started. And for me it kind of was like a way for me to learn from other designers to explore topics and for me to really start, I don't know, finding ways to progress my, my personal career growth and understand what makes a good designer and also be able to network with, with a lot of other designers as well. So, um, that was, those are my selfish reasons for wanting to do this. So Patrick, why did you agree to this idea that I brought to you?

Speaker B: Uh, it was you doing something with you sounded cool. Like I was like, yeah, we could do this. I like the idea I like. I like the idea you brought up about, like, learning. Learning more about design through other designers. Because it's like we, at the time, right, we were hiring a lot of designers, and it was always fun. I always had fun talking to people, even if we didn't hire them. You know, it's like. It's like we were interviewing them, talking about why they got into design, and all that kind of stuff was kind of. It was always kind of cool to hear, like, you know, those reasons and what they enjoyed about design and stuff. And I felt like, uh, the podcast kind of being natural to that. Like, we could. We could talk to people. People and talk to them about it. And then it kind of turned into more like. We kind of dive more into. I remember we. We had one weird. After an episode, we talked about, like, having, like. Like a Dear Abbey type of format where people could. People would send in topics and we would, like, answer, like, try to help them out kind of thing, you know, which was. Which was cool as well, because then we'd get these random topics that, like, we just didn't know any. We weren't prepared for. And then it was like we sort of had to, like, figure it out and talk about it. But through that process, like, I don't know, we just learned more about the topic, learn more about stuff. Um, yeah, a lot of. A lot of good moments. Like, I don't know. I. I think my favorite. This doesn't go along with the. The what we just talked about, but I think my favorite. One of my favorite top 10 design much moments was, uh, when we did the live version of Design Much.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: In front of the audience. Um, but more. More than that, what was the best was when. When Michael, um, like, made fun of that kid in the audience. That was still such a classic, classic Design Much moment of, like, I should know what's gonna happen.

Speaker A: Another apology out to that guy. No, uh, no offense meant to you or your wife.

Speaker B: And that's when the ratings really dipped. The shark.

Speaker A: The personal shots.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That really tanked your viewers or listeners. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry to that guy. It just sometimes. Yeah, actually, I was about to say more unfiltered stuff. I'm gonna keep it. Sometimes something comes to mind and you just don't filter it out. You just say it.

Speaker B: Well, then. And then, uh. Because we. We didn't know what we were doing right, Andy, when we first started. So we're like, let's record. Let's try to record this podcast. And I remember Recording with Nick. Like the first was like the first four episodes we recorded with Nick. I swear, it was like a bunch, right? In a row.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Recorded that first episode. Was it about typography?

Speaker C: No, it was about, uh, practice, I think, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. Oh, yeah, yeah. I just remember recording. We just didn't know what you're doing. Like, didn't have good mics. Still don't really have good mics. But it just. There was a lot of editing in that first episode. A lot of editing out. Sneezes and coughs and um. And then there was a moment. Andy. I don't know if you can still remember this, but there's the moment with Nick where he. He coughed or something. Do you remember this, Andy? And Nick made one of the weirdest noises I think we've ever.

Speaker C: Yes, I remember that.

Speaker B: Do you remember that? We cut it out, Nick. We had to. We had to take it out of it.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Uh, thank you for. For obvious reasons.

Speaker A: A cock sneeze.

Speaker B: Now I want to hear it.

Speaker C: Holy triumvirate.

Speaker B: I think we deleted it because it was like one of those things where it's like, we don't want this coming back on. Anybody

Speaker A: summoned a demon with that noise.

Speaker B: We had so many things like that. Especially early on when we were recording the podcast in the office and we were together. Like, everybody just felt nervous and like mics would fall over and like people would cough weird or say weird things and be like. I didn't mean to say that, uh, it was just, it was funny. But the more, the more we did it, the more comfortable everybody got.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I will say I still don't really know what I'm doing. I can't say I know what I'm doing still. But I, I love just having weird conversations about to sign all the time. So I'm, um, I'm happy, you know, I was happy to keep doing it for sure.

Speaker B: Did you have any favorite, uh, episodes or, or moments, Andy?

Speaker C: Oh, man. I. So we had, ah, an episode, I think it was episode 12 if I'm not mistaken, uh, with ah, Nate Sanders, who I hadn't, um, I knew, I didn't know super well, but I had kind of, you know, met and talked to him a little bit. But he came on and he talked about, um, something that I think just changed my life. And that was, uh, it was just so crazy talking about. Oh man, what was that topic again?

Speaker B: It's incredible.

Speaker A: Changed my life.

Speaker C: It changed my life. But I can't remember the top we

Speaker B: Were just talking about this. We were just talking about this the other day, and I can't remember either. I can't remember the name.

Speaker A: Pull up Spotify. Go to.

Speaker B: Well, that's the problem. It's not on Spotify.

Speaker A: Oh, okay.

Speaker B: Uh, it's before. Yeah, it was one of the earlier episodes.

Speaker C: Uh, no. Okay, I m. Know. I remember what it was. I remember what it was because I was thinking the wrong word. So he talked about confirmation bias.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Which is like the hugest thing, uh, that a designer needs to know about. Um, so if you don't know what confirmation bias is, go listen to that episode because it's amazing. Um, but I learned about just something that changed. Like, I just. During that episode, like, I didn't know how to respond to the things he was saying because he was blowing my mind at every moment. I was just like, oh, I'm in way over my head with this podcast idea. Um, because he's just so smart. But, uh, that was, that was a moment for me that really helped out in my design career. Just really understanding bias that designers bring and that anybody can bring into research, um, and in talking to design. So that was one that was so great, uh, so transformative for me, even though I forgot it for a second there.

Speaker B: But it was, yeah, the one for me that was kind of like, that was with, uh, Danielle Green on user research. Remember when she came in, she was great, man. Like, just some of the stuff she talked about was stuff that just. I've never thought about in my career. And. Ah, yeah, just different techniques for user research and how to get people to buy in. We've had so many good, uh, like, topics I think we've talked about, and we've had. We've had a decent amount of people coming on and, and talk about, um, you know, different design topics, different product management topics. And I think. I think a lot of them I've tried to apply, like with, with Canopy. You know, working at Canopy the whole time that we were doing the podcast, um, you know, just being there. Like, I've tried to apply lots of these things to our team. I remember me and you would talk about it. Like, we'd. We, we'd interview somebody, or we just get a topic and talk about it, and then afterwards it would be like, how do we, how do we apply that to, like, what we're doing here in Canopy?

Speaker C: Um, I think one that comes to mind. Sorry, sorry, Patrick.

Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead, Go ahead. I'm done.

Speaker C: One that comes to mind, uh, for that specific example, we had Ben Peck on the podcast, and he talked about critiques, and we immediately changed our design critiques format, and it was so awesome, the outcome of that. And, um, critique. The critique meeting was a wonderful meeting. Since. Since that episode.

Speaker B: It was much better because before then, like, Andy was crying all the time.

Speaker C: All the time. Yeah.

Speaker B: People were leaving, stomping out. And then when we change it, it was like, oh, we can still critique each other, but, like, we can be nice to each other and stuff.

Speaker C: Yeah. Valuable stuff.

Speaker B: And he still cries, but not as much.

Speaker C: Yeah. You know. You know me, Michael. I'm very emotional. I. I wish you wear it off my sleeve. You know,

Speaker B: this is Mr. Sensitive over there.

Speaker C: That's me.

Speaker B: Okay, I gotta ask you guys. Michael, um, and Nick, we gotta ask you guys real quick. Favorite moment in the episode. Favorite episode. You guys were both on a handful of episodes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, they don't have to be those. Yeah, definitely. It wasn't any of those.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know who those people are, but I feel like I should go back and listen to their stories and really learn. Dive into it. Good thing there's a catalog that can go back and listen to all these again.

Speaker C: I know, right?

Speaker A: I don't know. I'd have to think about it. I liked the, uh. Um, we did that one where there was like, 10 of us on the call for, like, the hundredth episode or something.

Speaker B: That was what I was gonna say. The hundredth episode was kind of fun. Just because I gotta.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker B: Catch up with a bunch of old friends and. Oh, yeah, yeah, we had everybody on that podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was fun. I can't. I'm thinking, uh, anytime I've been on, like, when I've listened, I've definitely gotten more than when I've been on. Because when I'm on, we don't usually talk about substance. Not for very long, anyway. It's like three quarters, like, nonsense and then a quarter substance. But what I've listened to, I like the 100th episode because it was fun. Um, but learning, I don't. I can't think of one that really pops out. Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to think about it for a little bit.

Speaker B: Alien ui. You were gonna say Alien ui. That's the one.

Speaker A: Yeah, I remember.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You guys got into brutalism, and it opened up my eyes to the world of brutalism.

Speaker B: Remember that time you were talking about

Speaker A: remote work, and then, like, a few

Speaker B: months later, like, a global pandemic happened

Speaker A: and we all got stuck with Remote work.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You guys made it happen. Yeah. It was a butterfly. It's like you knew.

Speaker B: Predicted it.

Speaker A: Shouldn't have talked about it. Don't you know about the secret?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, we did get the memo from Bill Gates what was going to happen, so we wanted to kind of throw something out there to prepare, you know?

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, so great. Uh, there's been a lot of moments, and if I ever go back and listen to the podcast, like, it's just there's weird things that happen in each one. Just ridiculous. Uh, Taco Bell comments. Uh, lots of. Lots of strange stuff. Patrick, I don't know what we were thinking, but we weren't.

Speaker B: That's probably part of the problem, I think. What about all those. What about all the topics? Like, we had people submit topics. Like, what are we gonna do with those? Do we have any leftover?

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Should we clarify that? Nick and I are not taking this.

Speaker C: Yes, that's true. You guys are fired. You're definitely not going to be able to handle this difficult podcast.

Speaker B: That was your tryout.

Speaker A: I can't take that scrutiny and criticism I'm not good with, so I'm out. Nick, I don't know if you're going to talk about this.

Speaker B: Your critiques, Andy,

Speaker C: I think I need to go back and listen to that episode, don't I? Yeah. Uh, they will not be taking over the episode. And so, yeah, we do have some remaining topics, and I actually have an answer right now for all of those topics. So all of you have submitted them. If we haven't covered them yet, the answer is it depends.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it depends for sure.

Speaker B: Depends on what culture.

Speaker A: What kind of culture are you building at your organization? Yeah, it depends.

Speaker C: Depends on. I mean, I guess the answer is, like, be humble and it depends. That's pretty much it. To all those remaining topics, the only

Speaker B: two things we've learned from the Design Much podcast.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Anything about design is it depends.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, man, that's true. Uh, and that's another thing I wanted to cover. Patrick, if we say that all of these 139 episodes was just like a big, huge research study, um, if we synthesize all of that data, what are those primary lessons that we've learned? Um, what are those. Those, like, those top, like, three things that we take away from that, and I think, like, one of those for me, uh, is that, like, we're designers for humans, and we're humans, and we just need to treat people like humans. Like, we. We have to treat them with respect and that you Just have to do that as a designer. Like, you're serving other people and you need to treat them like respect and like humans. And that's the only way you're going to have a successful design. The only way you're going to be good at your career as a designer is if you just treat people like humans. And I think that applies if you're an individual contributor, if you're a manager, um, the more that you can do that, uh, the better you'll be off as a designer.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's a business principle. Right. And a life principle. I think people forget what they're, why they went into business or who they're designing for or, you know, what the outcomes are supposed to be. Even on the product side, we get caught up in our own bias, you know, the confirmation bias or any other kind where it's like, I'm right and I'm, um, building this because I'm right. And then you get to the end of it. And it couldn't be more wrong because you didn't build it for an audience, you built it for yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, and piggybacking on that, I think one of the things, one of the key threads that I've learned throughout all of them, like, one of the key insights, is that talking to customers is the most important thing we can do. Because, uh, I feel like all the questions, like the different topics we get, they always come down to it depends, right? When the it depends is code for go talk to your customer. We've talked about that with, like, yeah, here's a bunch of questions on what you should or shouldn't do. Making design decisions or, you know, confirmation bias or any of those things. Any of those topics we talked about. All of those questions are answered by going and talking to your customers. And then we talked recently about, um, with the, with the Gold Digger episode. We talked about, you know, like, finding a love for what you do as a UX designer or just being in product or whatever. And we came down, you know, we kind of concluded with just the idea that, hey, every time we go talk to customers, like, it sort of, it breathes that energy back into, like, what you're doing. Right? Like, I want to design after I talk to customers. And if I haven't been talking to customers, I get bored with becomes kind of the same old, same old. It becomes more like a job. But as soon as I start talking to customers again, it's like, oh, uh, I want to do this again. Because, like, I know their pain points. I know what they need to do, like, you get excited about it. And so I think. Yeah, between. Between what you were talking about you and Michael and then just making sure that you're still, like, the most important part of our job from a UX product management standpoint.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Is going to be target customers. Uh, frequently.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: That's what I would sum it up with, is basically everything we said. And then also. Yeah, I mean, we. We still know lacroix Fake. Like, we just know that it is.

Speaker C: It's not fake. I'm holding it in my hand right here. It's not fake. It's. It's a real liquid that I can drink and enjoy.

Speaker B: All right. It's still one. It's still one flavor, though.

Speaker A: Not, uh, just not.

Speaker C: It's totally not.

Speaker A: Lemon and lime. Sure, they might be the same flavor, but coconut? Come on.

Speaker B: I still go back to. It's the packaging. It's the same flavor. Your eyes, they change the packaging, but it's still like a citrus flavor. And it doesn't even matter what you're actually drinking, man.

Speaker C: Since we. We can't keep doing this. This podcast, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree, I guess, because we

Speaker B: haven't even talked about lacroix in, like, three years.

Speaker C: I know.

Speaker B: I feel like it's weird to bring it up again. Is this why you guys are going separate ways? Like, you just couldn't come to an agreement on this?

Speaker C: It's the whole thing. I thought I could change him. He thought he could change me.

Speaker B: Yeah. And he just keeps sticking with LaCroix. I went San Pellegrino. We just.

Speaker A: There's no way Topo Chico is tops, though. You gotta go Topo Chico. That's the. That's the creme. I don't know what word I'm trying to say.

Speaker B: Creme de la creme.

Speaker A: Creme de la creme.

Speaker B: Is that French?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah, La creme de la Croix. I win. LaCroix better.

Speaker B: Okay. LaCroix wins. LaCroix win. Well, Andy wins.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: What about your Taco Bell order? You guys never agreed on a Taco Bell order either, right? I mean, what's the top. Top item?

Speaker C: Well, here's the thing. Taco Bell. Taco Bell's a religion. Taco Bell's for everyone. And there's no just one top order. You know, it's made for all.

Speaker A: Michael, I am upset, though. So they're bringing back the Mexican pizza. Not to just totally take a left turn in this conversation. This is what I'm good at.

Speaker B: Typical design.

Speaker A: Much Fashion, they bring back the Mexican pizza. Where's the grilled stuffed burrito? That was, that was as close to perfection as they've gotten in any one item. Usually, you know, you have like at least three items so you're satisfied. I could get one grilled stuffed burrito and it would hit all the right melts.

Speaker C: They can't give you everything and, you know, they gotta really have that anticipation. They're gonna give you some things at once, you know, but if you just eat that grilled stuffed burrito, the rest of the stuff on the menu, it was just. It's not going to get visited, you know?

Speaker A: It's so good, though.

Speaker B: Taco Bell really plays on the scarcity principle really well. Like, they'll, they'll come up with something that like, hits everyone across the face. The best thing ever. And then like a limited run.

Speaker A: Yeah, they've taken those like, drops or whatever that a lot of, uh, fashion companies are doing now where it's like, oh, limited drop. Yeah, Taco Bell's done. Pisses me off.

Speaker B: And they don't tell you when it's back either. They just like, sneak. Sometimes they just sneak it in like some, um. One day you're just hanging out, somebody's eating nacho fries, and you're like, m. Wait, nacho fries are back? What the hell? Nobody told me about it, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah. Or the five dollar nacho box. You just got to figure it out. Nobody's watching TV anymore, so it's not like we're seeing the commercial on tv. They're not paying for advertising on streaming services. Come on, guys.

Speaker B: You think, you think a loyal member of the Taco Bell community like myself, uh, you know, who's got the, who's got the app and everything like that? Would they, they would at least send out like a memo, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Every now and again, be like, hey, your favorite stuff's back, guy. Like, why don't you come over?

Speaker C: Welcome back.

Speaker A: Who missed it?

Speaker B: Yeah, welcome back.

Speaker C: You're supposed to be surprised. It's been a week when you go. Yeah, I'm.

Speaker B: I'm kind of, I'm kind of bitter right now, though, because all the Taco Bells around us, at least in where I live here in Utah, they're all like, they'll close early in the afternoon now.

Speaker A: I was just talking to someone about that this morning. Yeah, also, like, I mean, so if you've ever lived in a big city, it doesn't matter what time of day it is, you can get the food that you want, but we Live in Utah, where late at night, your only choice used to be McDonald's, Taco Bell, Del Taco. Now it's just McDonald's. Taco Bell closes at like, I don't even know when. Who knows their hours anymore? But they're closed early. They don't stay open super late anymore. What am I supposed to do, guys?

Speaker B: Yeah, one exactly. Like I, we pull over, I just pull in to like, go grab some food. Go into the restaurant, grab some food, close. The lobby's closed. They only got the drive thru open. I can't even do like a pickup order. And then the drive thru is like an hour long.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because there's two people working inside.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm like, pay, like, come on, Taco Bell, figure it out. I think it's just here locally. I hope, I hope Taco Bell's not running, uh, into issues internationally. But if they are, let's, let's all pray for them because they need to.

Speaker A: That type of stuff.

Speaker B: Make me cancel my Taco Bell subscription, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. If you show up for your one taco and they're like, sorry, yeah, we're closed. Excuse me.

Speaker B: Like, they're not even third meal around here anymore, remember?

Speaker A: Yeah, fourth meal. That's exactly what I was saying to someone.

Speaker B: They're not even third meal anymore.

Speaker A: They're like, we used to have the option.

Speaker B: That's it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And meanwhile, I go to some. You know, I was in Chicago a few weeks ago and it's like midnight and you can look up on Yelp and it's like, I've got pizza, tacos, like anything Indian food, all open late. I know we're not in a city. I know the difference. Guys. Don't look at me like I'm dumb,

Speaker B: but I'm saying, you're supposed to be sleeping here.

Speaker A: I'm just unhappy.

Speaker B: That's what everybody does here is they go to bed, apparently. Yeah, well, losers.

Speaker A: I'm not here for a long time. I'm here for a good time. I need my Taco Bell.

Speaker B: We almost just had our first, first design. Much spit take. I was drinking water when he said,

Speaker C: Uh, I think, I think that's what we're doing with this podcast. We're following Taco Bell's scarcity principle. We're taking it away from everybody.

Speaker A: You're gonna come back for a limited run.

Speaker C: Never know you need to do, like,

Speaker B: in another five years, do a live version in the Taco Bell. Like, you guys all just sitting down together, if they even exist by the work for Friends. Yeah, work for Friends. We'll get Justin Bieber on the show. Taco Bel. For some reason, that was the most random thing in the Friends reunion was Justin Bieber showing up. Uh, was I the only one that watched it?

Speaker A: I never watched it when it was

Speaker B: like, damn it, guys.

Speaker A: My. I don't know when it was live or whatever. I'm just not a Friends guy.

Speaker C: Yeah. I'm a Seinfeld person. You know that, Patrick.

Speaker B: I know. There's room for everyone. Come on.

Speaker C: I think France is great.

Speaker A: Seinfeld, friends or Michael, bottom tier. That's like low, low shelf stuff, guys.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: Seinfeld with his written down jokes. Come on. Michael's over here.

Speaker B: Like, I don't own a tv. I don't have time for that stuff.

Speaker A: No, I like top shelf Parks and Rec and Office.

Speaker C: And this is all. This is all after that time. What were you watching in the 90s? What were you doing?

Speaker A: Gargoyles. Darkwing Duck. Uh, come on. Fresh Prince of Bel Air. I was a big fan.

Speaker B: Deep cut. Geez.

Speaker A: Gargoyles is good.

Speaker C: I was into that. Yeah, I had. I had the gargoyle action figures. I was down with that one.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker C: But I still had time for Seinfeld. Nah, Just saying, man.

Speaker B: For Seinfeld, man.

Speaker A: All those manufactured laughs because nobody's actually funny. Uh, uh, crackhead always breaking into the room, shaking his hair around.

Speaker B: I'm gonna move on. We. We can't. I can't handle this.

Speaker C: Yeah, this is pain.

Speaker B: This is like. This is horrible. I don't know what to do with myself.

Speaker C: We're gonna get canceled before the show can even end. Michael.

Speaker A: I'm not letting up. Seinfeld isn't funny.

Speaker C: Blasphemous. That's just a horrible thing to hear. That's horrible.

Speaker B: I had one more. I had one more question for you, Andy. Uh, did you have any. Did you. Do you have any people you want to thank? Like. Like we're ending this thing. You usually thank people that have helped. Helped you along the way. By the way, your answer to this. Well, then I'm gonna. I'm gonna underlay the. The hope, uh, you had the green day. Hope you had the time of your life. Music. And then we'll end it with don't forget about me. Yeah.

Speaker C: With our fists pumped up. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Is there anybody out there in the, uh, in the ether besides these two knuckleheads?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that you wanted to thank for doing the podcast with us?

Speaker C: That's a good question. I mean, like, the, uh, people have Come on the show, huh?

Speaker A: Oh, I'm not supposed to be doing it. No, you're after.

Speaker C: I'm still mad at you, Michael.

Speaker A: You.

Speaker C: You get back in that corner. No more talking. Very upset with you right now. So I, uh, for sure.

Speaker A: Stupid ass. Uh, int. How many times have you guys invited

Speaker B: him on this show? I don't know. I feel like. I feel like we didn't screen him good enough for this stuff. You keep bringing him back. All of a sudden it's like the two without the demon in the room. Jeez.

Speaker A: Well, I'm just getting it all out now. I'll never be on a podcast again. So here's my audition tape.

Speaker C: Especially after this one, man. Goodness. So if you're done, Michael, if you got. Okay, I think I'm ready. If Michael is. Michael will cooperate. Can we, can we cut off his mic, Patrick?

Speaker B: Um, I don't know if I could do that.

Speaker A: I know when I've gone too far,

Speaker C: But I definitely. Patrick, I want to thank, um, first off, all of the people who come on this show who have, you know, uh, have come and actually taken the time to talk to us, to answer our questions, to answer our listeners questions. And that's. It's a hard thing to do. You have to be brave. You have to, uh, be willing to share your insights and just, uh, hope you're not going to make a fool of yourself, which is something that I did every time I got on this episode or the show. I made a fool of myself even including this episode. Um, so I want to thank all those people who've come on the show. I've learned so much from all of you and there's just so many people, I can't name them all. But, um, I've learned so much from all of you and I really appreciate you coming and sharing, um, with, with me, with Patrick, with, uh, our audience, you know, the, the UX community here. And it's been so awesome being able to learn from all of you. So I want to thank those people who come on the show to do that, because that's not easy to do. Um, I want to thank all of the audience members too. The people who actually for some reason downloaded and listened to this show, um, listen to Patrick and I talk about really stupid things, um, for 139 episodes for four and a half years. Um, I want to thank those people, uh, because, uh, although I don't think there's a lot of you, there's not a lot of you. Um, but I appreciate those who listened once listened for 20 seconds or listened for, you know, more than two episodes. Because that's.

Speaker A: Half of them are on this call, right?

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Uh, yes, but it's. It's humbling, and, um, as I've heard, uh, you know, those few people give us feedback on the show and what, you know, the things they've learned from it. It's just been very humbling and wonderful experience to. To be part of that. So I want to thank, um, those people, and I also really want to thank Patrick. Uh, Patrick has been an awesome friend and, uh, an awesome mentor to me, uh, coming on the show and teaching me so many things that he probably doesn't know. He's teaching me. Um, so, uh, Patrick's been just so awesome. And so whoever gets to, you know, rub shoulders with Patrick is a very lucky, lucky individual. And I've been super lucky to have done so, um, on the show in this setting for so long. So definitely want to thank him as well. So those are my thank yous.

Speaker B: Patrick, you're the only. You're the only person I wanted to thank because you're the one that started this thing. So, uh, yeah, thanks for things. I'd been wanting to do, like, some kind of podcast for a while, and I didn't know how to do it. And then you shot over the message and like, hey, let's try this out. It was like, all right, let's do it. I'm in. Um, yeah. So thanks for having the idea. Do we. Do we? I mean, I want to. I want to. I want to thank Brian Talbert to our adopted son for come. For sending us all the topics for the last two years.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: Keeping keeping the show going. And then are we telling. Are we telling Matt Bourne, our executive producer, that he's no longer gonna have a job? Are we telling him? Have you told him?

Speaker C: I haven't told him. Maybe. Maybe we should tell him before this airs so he doesn't get too upset. I don't know.

Speaker B: I don't know. I kind of think we just let it. I just do.

Speaker C: We just let it.

Speaker B: I don't know if he's even listening anymore. So I just want to see. Once we get a message like, hey, guys, where's my paycheck?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, he's got to have an exit interview at least, right, Patrick? He can find out. We'll have our HR people contact him and schedule interview. We'll do that.

Speaker B: That'll be good. At least. At least he'll need to know, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, I'll need to change his LinkedIn.

Speaker B: Um. Oh, another thing. We just. The thing. We're gonna wrap. We're gonna keep the episodes, right, Andy? We're gonna move them. We'll probably move them onto a different, uh, platform or something. But we want to archive them so they're always there, always available for people. It's not totally going to go away.

Speaker C: That's right. At any time, you can still access Andy and Patrick, put us in your ear holes.

Speaker B: And that was gross. Don't ever say that again.

Speaker C: And listen, the night away

Speaker A: got a weird ending.

Speaker C: Well, that's what I do on this podcast. I told you, I make a fool of myself. So there you go.

Speaker B: Well, thank you guys for coming on for the last. The last episode. Trying to take over for us.

Speaker A: Yeah, we tried.

Speaker B: You guys suck. But that's okay. An effort was made.

Speaker C: No, you guys did great.

Speaker A: No one can replace you guys. You're the best. Why are you laughing?

Speaker C: You say that with such a sincere face.

Speaker B: Well, me and Andy are starting the, uh, the Seinfeld Rewatch episode podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah, don't invite me.

Speaker B: And we're gonna have you on every episode.

Speaker A: Force me to watch. I'll have the contrarian view to every episode. Oh, you thought that was creative? It wasn't creative. It was obvious. It's all obvious. Bunch of friends commenting on the same stuff over and over again. How does Seinfeld get such hot girls? How does George get hot girls? How do they afford their lifestyle? I think you need more friends.

Speaker B: A, uh, hostility podcast of some kind.

Speaker C: Yeah, you'd be good at it, Michael.

Speaker A: Ah, I don't need that negativity in my life. I'm a very positive guy. Get.

Speaker B: Get Nick. Get Bluth on there for your first episode like you did with ours. Kicking it off. Right? The right foot.

Speaker A: That might not be such a good idea.

Speaker B: We saw how this, uh, podcast ended.

Speaker A: Four years of success, man. That's not. That's not bad. Usually it should be seven seasons in a movie, but you made the movie.

Speaker B: The movie might come out later. We'll think about it. Yeah, but. Okay. Well, it's nice having you guys on the podcast. The last episode.

Speaker A: Thanks.

Speaker B: Thanks for inviting us. Thanks for putting on an amazing podcast. Thanks, Nick.

Speaker A: Yes, it was beautiful.

Speaker C: Well, it's our pleasure. Right, Patrick?

Speaker B: Yep. Okay. See ya.

Speaker C: See you later.

Speaker A: Bye, guys. Bye. Welcome to Design Much with Andy and Patrick. Hey.

Speaker B: Hey, Andy.

Speaker C: What's up?

Speaker B: The purpose of the Design Much podcast, the reason why we're starting it right, is so that we can have a design Podcast where people can listen and they can level up their design game. Kind of more bite size at a time.

Speaker C: Well, hey, Patrick. Um, I want to welcome. Welcome all of you to the Design Much podcast. The podcast you listen to to level up your design game one bite size skill at a time.

Speaker B: The. Would you rather. Could be. Would you rather watch Star wars again or be in a room filled with 50 beats?

Speaker C: We went from Renaissance to plethora.

Speaker B: Plethora.

Speaker C: Okay, because I was just gonna say,

Speaker B: uh.

Speaker C: Because I was just gonna say. I think the. The people who say Renaissance just want to say the word Renaissance, so they. That's their excuse to use it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And I think you just did the exact same thing with the word plethora.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to put that out there.

Speaker B: If the users could see how good we look right now, it would be. They'd be amazed.

Speaker A: Uh, users?

Speaker B: Did I say users or listeners?

Speaker C: Welcome to episode 12 of Design Much, how to avoid confirmation bias with Nate Sanders. Welcome to episode 21. Are you afraid of the dark patterns? Welcome to episode 22 of Design Much. How to Speak up, featuring Allison Tubal. I don't know.

Speaker B: It's been. It's been a. It's been a crazy year.

Speaker C: It's been a crazy Design Much, I would say. So. Patrick, can you tell me what has been one of your. Your most favorite episodes of this last year?

Speaker A: How do you.

Speaker B: That's like picking a favorite child. This is easy.

Speaker A: You know how it is.

Speaker B: It's like, what file was I working on? Uh, is it in Google Drive?

Speaker A: I think it's in this folder.

Speaker B: Underscore. Underscore. Version 2.4.

Speaker C: Envision.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, geez.

Speaker A: Where is.

Speaker C: Welcome to episode 25 of Design Much, how to be self aware featuring Ingrid Grooves. Welcome to design much with andy and patrick. Hey.

Speaker B: Hey, Andy. We have no guests today. What are we gonna talk about?

Speaker C: Well, we have a bunch of topics that our listeners have actually sent in to us.

Speaker B: What, uh, what are we talking about today, Andy?

Speaker C: Well, Patrick, let's go ahead and find out. I'm, um, gonna go ahead and fire up the generator. Yep. And let's see what topic we have today.

Speaker B: Welcome. Welcome to the, uh, Design Much gossip podcast. We are recording.

Speaker C: How long have we been recording, Patrick?

Speaker B: Just 13 seconds.

Speaker C: 13. Okay, that's good.

Speaker B: When I said. When I said. Hello, Andy.

Speaker C: One can never be too sure.

Speaker B: Are we gonna do something, like, answer. Answer questions. People's question, like the. The design questions on, like, uh, Stack Overflow?

Speaker C: Huh.

Speaker B: We have that one. There was one. You Had. That was really sweet.

Speaker C: It was really cool. I don't want to say what it is because I still might want to do it.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Someday.

Speaker B: I know what it is now.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that'd be great. I think we'd have a lot of users, a lot of listeners.

Speaker B: Sorry, um, don't call them users, man. They're not drugs. They're not. They're not addicted to drugs.

Speaker C: And our topic, um, again comes from friend of the show, Jason Metzger again. And it is on the pros and cons of working remote, man.

Speaker B: You know who would be great at this topic?

Speaker C: Who?

Speaker B: Jason Metzger.

Speaker C: Why would Jason be great at this, Patrick? Jason works because he works remote.

Speaker B: I lost in the last two weeks, Andy. I've lost two things in my life.

Speaker C: Really?

Speaker B: Yeah. I lost a tooth, the L14, just for dentists who listen. And then I lost, uh, you as a canopy employee. As a coworker.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: We no longer are co workers.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: I think we're more than acquaintances, Andy. I think there's a friendship here. I don't know at what level, if it's healthy or not.

Speaker C: Mhm. I wouldn't use design much as a verb. No, no, no, you wouldn't because it's a. It's a. It's a noun. It's a thing that lives and breathes.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a noun.

Speaker C: I am not. I'll be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of Thanksgiving as a holiday. I'll just say that now because this

Speaker B: is gonna be one hell of a polarizing podcast, Andy.

Speaker C: Is it really?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Do you like Thanksgiving?

Speaker B: I hate. I don't like Thanksgiving.

Speaker C: Okay. I, um. I think it's in terms of a celebration of something. Like it's. It really just like the. The being thankful part is great. Right. You take some time as people to be thankful for something. I think that's the best part of it. The rest of it is like you're just really sitting down to eat a lot of food, which you kind of do every day. And I don't think that's super special.

Speaker B: And um, I think it's. I don't think it's real. I think it's something we should be eating.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Seems really bland and like. Yeah. Why would anybody want to. Seems like a food. You have to do a lot too, to make it taste good.

Speaker C: Well, you do. You put like a lot of butter on it and then it's great. Yeah.

Speaker B: Which is like anything.

Speaker C: Hey, mom. How you doing?

Speaker B: Wasn't That a saying back in the day?

Speaker C: I don't know. Is that, like, an insult?

Speaker B: I thought it was a positive thing.

Speaker C: Really?

Speaker B: Maybe it's an insult.

Speaker C: A word to your mom. Okay, I might have to break that down.

Speaker B: I don't know. What topic do we have for your mom today?

Speaker A: What?

Speaker C: Welcome to Design Much with Andy and Patrick.

Speaker B: See how that's done live. It's fun. Never before. Usually we're in a closet somewhere. Why go out on your back porch at, uh, 1:00am okay. So quiet.

Speaker C: That's the devil's hour.

Speaker B: Deer running around. Devil's hour. Only in Utah County. Yeah, only in Utah county. Is that the devil's hour.

Speaker A: Sexy.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Is your wife a Rubik's cube?

Speaker B: What's sexy about that?

Speaker C: You look at that. Hello.

Speaker B: Long time listener.

Speaker A: First time.

Speaker B: Well, that's not true. Second time talker. Thank you for agitating our audience. Um, speaking of fresh, that shirt you're wearing, you got. You got a nice, uh, workfront community shirt on community matters.

Speaker C: And it's clean, too, so it's fresh. So that it's fresh. Definitely. Unfortunately, it doesn't say eat fresh. You know, like, no, I don't have

Speaker B: any Subway shirts, as you should probably not have any. But as far as somebody who can make a sandwich, I think you're definitely an artist.

Speaker C: Yeah, they were pretty good. I wanted to post them on dribble, but I never got around to it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That would be a great dribble account, wouldn't it? That would be. That would be the only dribble account. We should start this. You should start a dribble account where all you post is making sandwiches. Yeah.

Speaker C: Then my. My little tagline like, my job is sandwich artist. That's a good idea.

Speaker B: Like, you wrestle a crocodile once, right?

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I usually do, like, you know, every few years.

Speaker B: Remember how you got. Yeah. You get on their backs, and then you. You get on their backs and tie their. Like, arrest them. Um, like a police officer arrests a person. You tie their little arms behind their backs, right? That's what you did. That's what. That's what you do, Eddie.

Speaker C: What I usually do is I just, you know, you. You roll around because what they do is they roll, right? They like. They like to bite m down, and they do that roll. So I just like to, you know. You know, give them a big bear hug and just roll with them. That's.

Speaker B: Oh, really?

Speaker C: That's the fun. I do, you know.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, I didn't know you did that. I Thought you did.

Speaker C: I didn't tie them. They just gave me the best visual.

Speaker A: Just.

Speaker C: Welcome to Design Much with Andy and Patrick. Hey, Patrick.

Speaker B: Hi, Andy.

Speaker C: How are you doing?

Speaker B: Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker C: Thank you. I want to welcome.

Speaker B: What episode number is this, Andy?

Speaker C: Um, you know, surprisingly, uh, this is episode 1 00. Episode 103 digits. Friend of the show, Jordan reading. So Jordan actually came on the show episode 11 to talk about imposter syndrome, as well as episode 60 to talk about boot, um, camps, creating effective designers. So, Jordan, do you want to introduce yourself?

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker C: I don't remember everything you said that

Speaker A: we needed to say, but I'll.

Speaker C: I'll do my best.

Speaker B: Just name. Just name and Social Security number.

Speaker C: Quick update. I still have imposter syndrome. Friend of the show, Michael Nielsen. Michael, um, was from episode 42. Why are successful movies and apps only remakes? And episode 90 as well. Patrick's laughing. Are you afraid of the Dark? Part three? Um, so great episodes, Michael, welcome back to the show. Do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Speaker A: What up, everyone? It's Michael.

Speaker C: So next up on the list, uh, we have Nick Bluth. Uh, so Nick actually came from episode one, the first episode of Design Munch. So it's very, very awesome thing, as well as episode nine. So episode one, dark themes and visual design. Episode nine, how to deliberately practice. So great episodes as well. Nick, do you want to, um, introduce yourself?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm. I'm Nick. As, as you mentioned.

Speaker C: Um, next up, we, uh, have Dana Clark, um, joined us on episode four, Learning framer, small wins, and mic drop. Dana, do you want to introduce yourself?

Speaker B: Yes. Hopefully I don't knock anything over this time.

Speaker C: Me too. So next up, I have Allison Zubal, um, who came on episode 22, how to speak Up. So another awesome episode. Allison, you want to introduce yourself?

Speaker B: Hey, guys. Uh, yeah, I am Alison.

Speaker A: I'm a designer at Kanopy.

Speaker C: Last but not least, we have, um,

Speaker B: Michael has left the chat.

Speaker C: It's fine, Michael.

Speaker A: Not everyone's faces show up on my screen. I'm sorry. Sorry.

Speaker C: We can show you how to fix that.

Speaker A: There should be an icon somewhere up there. Yeah.

Speaker C: I'm Allie. Nice.

Speaker B: Did we make the, uh, wrapped. Do we make you wrapped at the end of the year?

Speaker A: I think so.

Speaker C: And it's probably not because I switched

Speaker B: to listening to podcasts on Spotify.

Speaker C: That doesn't have anything to do with.

Speaker A: The last episode I listened to was

Speaker B: the one with Ali.

Speaker A: It was a phenomenal episode too. Oh, yeah, I like that one.

Speaker B: To be honest, that's the only one I've ever listened to. I just have it on a repeat again.

Speaker A: I'll ask, what is this for?

Speaker B: What I'm most fascinated about is their UIs. That's what I'm. I want to be like, hey, who's the, who's the director of UX on the spaceship? I want to know. I want to know how you guys design these sweet UIs.

Speaker C: That's. I. I totally agree with that. That would be a super awesome thing. We see lots of alien UIs in movies, you know. Um, but you never think. I hadn't really assumed that, um, Most of those UFOs would have a director of UX on the ship. Like, each ship is assigned, you know, a UX personnel, and that's their specialty. And I think that's probably. Hey, Patrick.

Speaker B: Andy.

Speaker C: How are you, man?

Speaker B: I'm doing good. This is episode 120.

Speaker C: And yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, we've done 120 of these.

Speaker C: That's quite a lot, Patrick. I don't know. I don't know what we're thinking. Should. Should we stop? Should we. Is this too much?

Speaker A: Just.

Speaker C: I was just gonna start with the hey, Patrick, but then you're doing the

Speaker B: wiggly we had a clap for, man.

Speaker C: Oh, that's right. Okay, thank you.

Speaker A: Just.

Speaker C: Hey, Andy, how are you doing today, man?

Speaker B: I'm doing good. It's Friday. Uh, I don't know what that means, because Saturday just means I gotta work at my house, so.

Speaker C: No, you're not supposed to tell the listeners what day it is. We record this, this podcast out of. Out of place and time. Patrick. It's just a nebulous thing when, when we create this content, it's. It's everlasting.

Speaker B: Okay, I got a pink, I got, uh, red, a yellow, and an orange. Let's see what they taste like. I threw the lime out, so it shouldn't be disgusting.

Speaker C: And there he goes. There he goes. Folks, this is, this is what it sounds like to, to eat. How many was that? Four that you just put in?

Speaker B: Four.

Speaker C: Four dots at the same time.

Speaker B: Four dots. It's kind of. It's a little bit too much.

Speaker C: This is gonna be a great conversation. Um, but. So, Patrick, there's. There's something you didn't finish describing that I still am very curious about your process. So you, you, you described. You, you, you pour them all out on a napkin. You put the green ones in a baggie and you, you know, gave them to somebody you don't care that much about.

Speaker B: And then, uh, I got. Just Update.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: I've chewed and swallowed the dots and they all tasted fruity, but they all tasted good. There wasn't a negative part of that.

Speaker C: Nice.

Speaker B: Um, but now I have them all stuck in my teeth. So.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: The next phase.

Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, that's.

Speaker B: Yeah. Put them, Put all the green ones in the baggie and give them to somebody else who likes.

Speaker C: Hi, Patrick. How are you doing today?

Speaker B: I'm doing good.

Speaker C: I'm drinking an Orange Julius, an orange juice. Wow. Did you make that homemade, baby?

Speaker B: Can you hear that swishing around in the cup?

Speaker C: It makes sense on every level. It's just.

Speaker B: And you can imagine it. You can imagine it as if you put all your elements on a page and then at the top, the very top of the page, there's a hole in the top of the design. And if you poured sugar in it, all that sugar would fill in all those little cracks, like the cracks and bricks. Bricks, right. And then when it was full, you had enough. See?

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: That's dumb. Welcome to the woods, Andy.

Speaker C: Into feeling scared because honestly, like, if. If I put myself in your shoes. Audience members of the Design Much podcast, it's actually super scary to put yourself out there to actually submit, uh, a story and talk about your life in front of a bunch of strangers. I know it's scary because I do it all the time when I meet with you, Patrick. All the time.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And we have a conversation. So we did that to give you guys a real spooky time to get you feeling scared about doing that stuff.

Speaker A: Stuff.

Speaker C: And I'm going to tell you what, Patrick. I think it worked because lots of

Speaker B: people worked too good.

Speaker C: It worked too well. Cuz lots of people were so scared of submitting something into our, into our podcast that we didn't get any submissions.

Speaker B: I. I've already grown as a person. The fact that I admitted on the podcast that I wet my pants.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: In the woods holding hands with you. Um, you know that I'm grow. I've grown as a human being.

Speaker C: I think so too. I absolutely agree.

Speaker B: Or go. Or go to designmuch.org contact/applebee's.

Speaker C: That's not it.

Speaker B: I want to hear the debate. I want to hear Chili's versus Denny's versus Applebee's.

Speaker C: Um, that's what we need to do next time. I don't. I don't know if those are all three in the same. The right category. I think Denny's falls into a different category because the debate has begun.

Speaker B: I don't know how to close.

Speaker C: Just stare at each other and expect it to go away.

Speaker B: We worked out how to open the show. We didn't work on how to close the show.

Speaker C: Another turning point of fork stuck in the road.

Speaker B: Uh, time grabs you by the rest,

Speaker C: directs you where to go. So make the best of this test and don't ask why.

Speaker B: It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time. It's something uncomfortable, predictable, but in the end, is right. I hope you had the time of your life.