Pioneering Global Design - Christine McGinnis - Defining Hospitality

DH - Christine McGinnis === Dan Ryan: when you kick off a project, is there, like, is there something that, like a first question you wind up asking yourself or the team? Christine McGinnis: Why? Dan Ryan: Why? Oh, that's a good one.

We always forget to ask why. Christine McGinnis: Yeah. I mean, sorry, I'm like really like super Canadian with sorry, What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day.

What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives. I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality. This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms Dan Ryan: Today's guest is a designer with over two decades of global design experience.

She's a multi-time director at organizations like Starwood, Avrico, and WATG, just to name a few. She's led projects for the House on Saton, the Aloft Seminyak, and Park Hyatt Penthouse Bangkok, and the Marriott Kolkata, just to name a few. She's been around the world. She's also a director of design at Wave Design Consultants in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria.

Ladies and gentlemen, a dear friend, Christine McGinnis. Welcome, Christine. Christine McGinnis: Thank you so much. Dan Ryan: It's wonderful to have you here, and I think one of the things that I am most impressed by with you and your career path is I think you kept going west, and you just kinda didn't stop from Toronto, I guess maybe a little bit east down in New York, maybe south, but then you just went west and west and west through Asia, and now here you are in Gran Canaria just off the coast of- Africa in the Atlantic Ocean, and that's freaking amazing.

So tell us what's up with the journey westward? Christine McGinnis: I mean, who would've thought, to be honest? yeah. Uh, very unexpected, to be fair.

yes and no. Um, I, I would say yeah, for the most part have spent most my career in Asia, which, you know, I've been super thrilled to do that. I mean, it was, you know, incredible experiences and amazing people and all that. Um, but I think like a lot of folks, uh, post-COVID and during COVID, you know, things kind of went topsy-turvy, a little crazy.

Um, but I kind of identified that I hadn't been - Like one market I hadn't really worked in was, was the European market and, and by extension kind of Africa. And, um, it had always intrigued me. Uh, it still does, um, obviously. Uh, and yeah, it was like, let's do this.

Like again, post-COVID, it was like, yeah, this - let's, let's kind of get on with that. And, um, have been able to do that. Um, and uh, yeah, I guess now we're kind of officially starting three years Dan Ryan: having designed and been a designer in such places as Canada, the United States, throughout Asia, Southeast Asia, and now in Europe, what have you - Like, as far as hospitality, A, what does it mean to you? And then what, what, what did you pick up along these travels that kind of helped you inform the work that you're doing now?

Christine McGinnis: think - I mean, initially when I first started out, um, because in Canada you graduate a little bit later than most. so I was 24 and my plan was kind of six countries in six years. That's, that was the initial kind of thought, you know? And, you know, to be able to kind of say by 30 you're gonna be in such and such a locale.

And clearly that did not go to plan. Um... Dan Ryan: also that's interesting because the internet was not as robust as it was now as far as broadband and everything, and B, so you were like on the leading edge of that digital nomad. Hmm.

little bit, actually. And it's, it's actually really funny that you say that because I know that, you know, we all always look at like psychographics and this and that, I - obviously I'm Gen X. Um, and you know, there - I, psychographics I think are kind of designed to kind of obviously segment people, but Hmm. About like Gen Z and alphas and whatnot, f- I feel like I have more in common with them than I ever would've anticipated because, you know, at the end of the day, I think, you know, people kind of generally speaking want the same things.

Um, you know, and, and I find it, I find it very interesting because I, uh, resonate with the younger, the younger folks, which isn't necessarily, I think, you know, as you progress in, in the years, it's not necessarily expected, but I'm glad to see that I, I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't feel old, you know? I'm a Gen Xer as well, but I just, I've never really felt like one. I've always felt like I can connect and communicate and commune with the younger ones until my kids.

Now I feel like Christine McGinnis: Dad. Dan Ryan: I'm like that, I'm like the weird old guy that just can't like... Everything is embarrassing. Um, but maybe that's just with them because I seem to do well with all the others.

Another fascinating thing about you and your contemporaries, and this has come up on a lot of other podcasts, but having s- really started your hospitality career at Starwood Hotels and Resorts in White Plains and then, and then Greenwich, there were - it was such a lab or pod as, as the great Khan would call it, of innovation and great people and, and since then some have stayed around, but mostly it's been this diaspora of really innovative, creative thinkers. And, you know, as you look back at those foundational memories, I what are your thoughts on it now and, and how, and, and, and the, and the paths that everyone's gone on globally?

Christine McGinnis: you know, I think so much in general is, is timing, you know? Um, and, uh, I was fortunate to, uh, to, to find myself at Starwood at that time, uh, because it was shortly after Barry had launched, uh, the, uh, Heavenly Bed and this and that. Um, and I was initially brought on for Westin and, um It was fascinating. I mean, all of it, uh, top to bottom.

I mean, uh, there was an incredible team put together. I mean, I know that this is like kind of lore, um, in that Barry specifically looked for, um, uh, hospitality designers that were not in hospitality. Like, so he, he How... leveraged, Dan Ryan: That's crazy.

Like, how do you do that? And yeah. Okay, Christine McGinnis: looking at retail. I guess It that, yeah.

I mean, it was just this like crazy mix of people, like really diverse, really interesting. and we all were able to kind of, you know, get on with it. Um, and it was, it was, it was good fun. And I, I don't think that, you know, calling it a lab is, is out of turn, you know?

I mean, it really was like a, this gonna work? Is it not gonna work? We don't know, but let's, you know, let's do it." And to have an organization that supports that, um, is, I think, very not particularly common, mm.

Mm. And, um, yeah, I have very, very good memories of those days. Dan Ryan: So what, what's interesting about that, to get all, all these people from different experiences to come into hospitality to kind of, to really innovate with hospitality and kind of push the limits and not work within certain boundaries. And I mean, the proof is in the pudding.

It kind of, at all the new brands and everything that they had come up with. But the, um, there's something about being brought into that pod and thinking and, and doing all the things that you're doing away and apart from the rest of the industry, right? And really kinda being trail blazers, how did you know you were doing something different, or did that really happen once you left? Or did you hear about it from other, other people and other contemporaries that were there?

Christine McGinnis: I don't think at the time anybody necessarily looking at it that way. I mean, it was very evident that there were - there was something very special going on, you know um, but, uh, I think it's more of a, you know, kind of in retrospect, you really kind of understand the magnitude of that. Um, because at the time it was just like, you're doing really great things with really great people, you know? And you just...

You know, I mean, I really You know, I never felt like I, um, you know, was dreading to go into the office or anything like that because, you know, you really never knew what was gonna come up on any given day, you know? And obviously you've got your deadlines and this and that, you know, the practical aspects of, of obviously what we do. um, there was just a, a real, I think a real... Joy is too strong a word, but you just really enjoyed what you were doing, you know?

Um, and kind of, I guess you understood that you moved the needle after the fact, you know? Um, wasn't something - You weren't sitting down with folks to say, "Oh, today we're gonna move the needle." You know, it was nothing like that. It was just like, "What are we doing and, and, and how do we make this good?

How do we make it fun? How do we make it interesting?" know? Um, Dan Ryan: I just find it really interesting for, Barry's vision to kinda - to really move the needle, but go on this hunt for people from retail, from different other sensibilities and different silos, and bring them together and, push forward to chart new paths.

I mean, it really, it forced all the other brands to kinda keep up. Christine McGinnis: I think Barry was very, visionary in that respect. Like, I mean, you really do need to have the right mix of people at the right time. And, I think maybe subconsciously I kind of took that, along with me, in terms of, you know, when I'm assembling teams or, looking at people and, how can we, work together these sorts of things.

You've gotta have the right people in the right spot. and, not necessarily the, obvious kind of selections and this and that you know? Dan Ryan: to and all the cool things that they've done, um, how do you reflect back onto yourself to have been part of such a I don't know, a, a cool crucible of really pushing the envelope there. And that's number one.

And then number two, y- you came - y- you were a designer, but I - Was this your first time doing hospitality design? And how did you design for that? And also, how did it inform your idea of what hospitality is from a d- from a designer's perspective? Christine McGinnis: Yeah.

Um, no, that's fair because I, I was very fortunate to have a kind of background in - I, I actually did quite a bit of, of retail. I actually remember getting locked in one of the Tiffany's windows in Hong Kong Dan Ryan: Whoa. Christine McGinnis: we were setting it up and um and this is before cellphones. Dan Ryan: And those are like thick glass secure windows I would assume.

Christine McGinnis: They are. They are. Dan Ryan: Did you run out of oxygen Christine McGinnis: No I was okay, Dan Ryan: No I was okay fortunately Christine McGinnis: I was okay. I would assume.

Like, I mean, Oh anyway, like a lot of like merchandising, retail, um, my God. Uh, residential, Did all of that. So you to Starwood with that, um, it was a kind of a mixed bag. And then, you know, run after, you know, I, I - As soon as I was there, I was like, "Uh, this is it," because it encapsulates basically everything that I think, out of kind of designers want, you know?

Um, you, you've got it all in one microcosm, oxygen? Hmm. And, um, yeah. And then I think as the years progressed and as, you know, my role would expand and, you know, we're, we're looking at things, you know, kind of maybe in a more harmonious way, um, you know, it just...

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you've got great design. That's always wonderful. I mean, that's why we're here. But, uh, it really informed my, perception of hospitality in that it really is about openness And we can all look at The kind of talking points, about, you know, kind of belonging and, you know, all of these kind of like, philosophical bits, that are important and they are very valid.

Um- And I think the closer you can get to really, exemplifying that is when you're going to be - you'll be successful. and openness can be you know, it's not about, kind of just like open doors always. it's, really about, the heart and the welcome, the, you know, kind of like being welcoming and, uh, understanding what your boundaries are. Um, y-you know, it, it, it's, um, it's kind of all-encompassing, um, and, and important, you know.

Um, I don't know. I mean, to me it like that kind of 50,000 foot view, openness is really the, the kind of the, the root of what we're trying to get at, you know? And it doesn't matter the market, it doesn't matter the, you know, kind of the price point, any of that. Dan Ryan: I hear you on the openness part, but I also, I hear you just say it's, it's, it's not about the market, 'cause if you really drill down to the heart, it, it's being open.

But No. I have to imagine when, you know, when you're land - uh, when you're winding up in Bangkok and working on all these great projects like the House of Saton and, you know, all the other ones that you worked on, it's gotta be different. Or is it not? If you're really truly open and connected, is it the same?

And are there any, are there any stories about how that project, like such an important historical project, like Hmm. That, how did that inform you on your journey to where you are now? Christine McGinnis: Well, I think that's the kicker, right? I mean, essentially, um, I was sent off with like...

I had only been to Bangkok once before, uh, I moved there. I was there for three days for project meetings. And, uh, at the time I was with Afroco and, you know, things were getting serious. Like Afroco was gaining a lot of traction in, in, in the Asian markets, it was kind of, "Okay, we gotta, we gotta get serious about this.

Let's, let's open an office." And, uh, I was sent with a suitcase and a credit card, and I didn't know - I, I think I knew one person there, basically. And, you know, uh kind of built it up from the literally from, from the ground up. Um, and one of my meetings was obviously at the, the House on Sathorn.

Um, and there were all of these white yarns, um, that were all over the, the place. This, this building is right next door to the W Hotel, Oh, okay And the House on Sathorn had been - it was built in the 1800s, uh, later part of the century, had functioned as, you know, many different, um, iterations, uh, but was built by a, um, a, kind of an industrialist, um, in, uh... He made his money in rice. this place when I walked in, I mean, literally the columns weren't touching the floor.

They were suspended from the ceiling because they had been eaten out by termites. Dan Ryan: Oh, geez. Christine McGinnis: mean, it was, it was unbelievable. And, um, the strings were all there, uh, as a result of the monks, um, who had been, you know, kind of through the space because one of the iterations for the house was, uh, it was the, uh, Russian Embassy.

And, uh, so there was a, I think a lot of cleansing that kind of needed to be done. Um, so they had done that. And, um, was a very - it was a pretty spiritual place. Um, and I told later that, um, the monks and more importantly the former, um, kind of the matriarch of the, of the house of communicated that, uh, they felt that the, the house was in good hands, uh, certainly with Avroko.

Um, and, um, I think somewhat specifically with me, um, because I think it comes down to what I'm saying, uh, uh, with respect to openness, you know? Um, you have to, you have to maintain that otherwise, you know, kind of truly what's the point, you know? Um, so that just, you know, is, uh, know, I think just one example. Um, and I'm, I'm just very fortunate.

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Dan Ryan: And then so kind of fast-forward to continuing your journey westward, and now, you know, you wind up in Spain, and what are y- w- what are some really cool projects that you're doing that help carry on that openness? Christine McGinnis: I'm very fortunate because our, our Our group at Wave is very tight. Um, uh, it's, uh... I've got two partners, um, uh, who is originally from here, which explains, uh, kind of why we're, we're in Gran Canaria, and, uh, Ameet, who heads up our HQ in Singapore.

Um, guys and, uh, focused on architecture. Um, so I'm kind of coming in with the touchy-feely ID side of things, um, which is, um, always, always invigorating and fun, you know. Um, and we've been very fortunate. I mean, we cover a very large swath of geography.

I mean, our projects really kind of span from Europe s-straight over to, to Asia, uh, which is fantastic. Um, so much going on in Africa, which is amazing. Um, super inspiring. And, uh, you know, I think we just kind of carry through that ethos, um, uh, for all of our projects.

I'm very, very much looking forward to, we have a restaurant opening up here shortly, uh, with a, with a dream client. Um, she has so much vision and just, you know, does wonderful things on these little tiny islands. Um, and I'm... Yeah, we're - we should be opening May, June.

So, Oh. My first, uh, kind of drawing set, uh, in Spanish, um, I drew every line. I, uh... You know?

Okay. Lost or like I say, like it's just, it's really kind of about that, that piece about openness, you know? Not? Um, and yeah, very much looking forward to that.

Everything locally sourced and yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be fun. Dan Ryan: when you kick off a project, is there, like, is there something that, like a first question you wind up asking yourself or the team? Or like, h-how do you take that first step working w- in all of the - in these myriad of different locations? Christine McGinnis: Why?

Dan Ryan: Why? Oh, that's a good one. We always forget to ask why. Christine McGinnis: Yeah.

I mean, sorry, I'm like really like super Canadian with sorry, but also, um, you know, just in terms of being able to distill things down to one word, I mean, and why. Um, I think these are things that get glossed over. they get overlooked. Uh, there's not enough attention paid to those very foundational questions.

And I'm not saying everybody has to come into a meeting and have all the answers, you know, kind of all there. But it's really worth that analysis to say, "Yeah, why? Why, why are we doing this?" You know?

because it, it, it, it, it really... I don't know, it, it solidifies, uh, so much at a very early stage, which is essential. Dan Ryan: And is that unusual? Like, when you, when you're assembling a project team, do most people not ask that question?

Or is it just a good kind of coaching technique that you use to dig a little bit deeper? Christine McGinnis: No. No, I mean, I think we can all understand the commercials around a project. I Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, not a, you know, kind of a mystery. Um, but certainly for myself and, uh, the kinds of projects we, uh, choose to involve ourselves with, uh, understanding that very fundamental kind of answer to that fundamental question is critical. And I No. Necessarily think, you know, that a lot of people really ask that.

And to really kind of, you might ask it maybe in a passing way, but to really to, to feel it, to understand it, to, to have it resonate, I, I think that's the, the key. And, you know, we're certainly in a space where, you know, um, there are so many brands on this planet. There's so many eye- You know, everybody's kind of jockeying for eyeballs and attention and, you know, this and that. But to really be able to distill in a, in a, a meaningful way, you know, why will save you a lot of, of, of, I think, headaches and, And it's not a negative thing.

It's, it's really like you can frame it in a very positive way. Like, why are we doing this? You know, what are we, you know, kind of... It just leads to much more, um, digging and, you know, exploration, which I think is, you know, it's worthwhile.

Dan Ryan: so having been tr- having traveled and working on all these projects all over the world, um, you also get to experience a lot of projects, and you probably get to see more than most people globally. But is there - are there any locations or spaces that you've entered where, you know, they got the why right? D- and the ones that you didn't necessarily Sure. Do you have an example of one where you walked in and you're like, "Okay, they got this."

Like, you knew immediately as soon as you walk in? Christine McGinnis: Yeah, there's a handful. I mean, you know, I, I think that's also the kind of, you know, the challenge we have, um, as designers, number one, but people of this world that, you know, the more you kind of see, you know, that you, you think that - I don't know. You think your list is gonna get smaller.

You think, you know, you've kind of ticked the box and what have you. I find that, uh, it takes a lot more to get me excited. Um, you know, you do, you do kind of get a little fatigued. There are rooms that you go into that you feel like it doesn't matter where they are, it's like you've seen it before.

Um, and there are a few places that really stick out, uh, for me. Um, and even a, uh, like a throwback. Um, you know, uh, after, after 9/11, kind of running out of those buildings, um, and having a, a, a not very good day like many folks. Um, know, I was looking to go home to Williamsburg, and it was difficult getting around town.

And, uh, I happened to be uptown, uh, because I was looking for my, my partner who was at Rock Center, and it was like, we gotta just chill. And so we rocked up to the, um, the Waldorf Astoria and popped into the Bull & Bear for a bite. And, uh, it was remarkable because despite that being such a horrific day for so many people, uh, they managed to, uh, make everything feel absolutely right and correct and welcoming and open. Again, openness, you know.

It's like, actually, are you open? You know? Um, and it was just such a wonderful, um, respite, uh, you know, on such a horrifying day. And, um, in fact, I actually think that that was kind of where I really got the, the hospitality bug, um, you just can't put a price on that, you know?

Um, it's how people make you feel, Dan Ryan: Yeah, and I, and I'm sure the people working there as well, as that's all happening, they're - It's not like... Christine McGinnis: mean... Dan Ryan: but also I think that it, being able to welcome others and be that calm oasis, um, also is just, uh, you know, from the heart, I think that that's, that was probably a, a, a very seminal day in their experience as well, because that, it probably grounded them in a way, if you felt that grounded with that experience as well.

Christine McGinnis: Without a doubt. I, I mean, no, tr- like true - I, I really - It's, it's alchemy, it's magic, and, know, it's something I'll never forget, you know? And, uh, yeah, hats off. Hats off to the team, the team there, you know.

Um, uh, yeah, when you, when you hit all the marks and, and yeah, you do it from the heart. It's not because it's like, you know, an SOP or something. You know, it's, um... You can feel the difference and it's, uh, it's transcendent, you know.

And at the end of the day, that's - to me, that's, that's the magic of what we do, Dan Ryan: yeah. No, I, I mean, I, I, I was in San Francisco on that day, and I just remember sitting in a park wondering what the hell was going on. Um, but I was just - I was so far away. Christine McGinnis: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: So that idea of openness and that respite and that creating this place where you're putting others first and caring for others and making others feel, making others feel first, what's Mm-hmm. A recent project that you've worked on where you think that you really nailed, you, you ch- you nailed all those boxes and checked all those boxes? Christine McGinnis: you know, it's, it's one of those things. Like, uh, I'll never forget that, that basically, you know, people will come to your joint, whether it's like a hotel or a restaurant, whatever.

They'll come once for the design but they come back for the service you know and how you made them feel. And you know, obviously that's the aspiration for any project, uh, that I've been involved with, um, because I think that that's, Oh, the, the calling card is how do you make people feel? Um, I would say, uh, I feel that, um, The Aloft Seminyak is a very good example of that. Uh, in, in that particular project, we have a, an owner who is, uh, really wonderful.

They always really like to push the, the envelope um, they're just good, they're just good people, you know, and give me a lot of latitude. And thats in Bali? , That's in Bali, yeah, just outside of, uh, Kuta. Yup okay, they get it, you know?

Um, and, uh, they've entrusted us with quite a lot, not just with that project, but some, some upcoming ones. And, um, I feel that, that that is what we've been able to deliver is, is that, is that feeling. It's that alchemy. You know, you can...

Like I say, design is, is one thing, you know, but, um, all the kind of steps and, and, um, criteria, self-imposed and also, you know, uh, to answer the program, when think also it's working on a project in Bali as well, like the, the people from my experience are just so lovely there that it's really... It, it's hard to mess that up as well. I mean, I've been places in Bali where it is messed up, but, Yeah, yeah. It's really, really hard in some locations Yeah.

Dan Ryan: to screw things up because the... You know, I don't know. I just find that like in - for all of eternity, it's all about welcoming others and, and guest rights and, and, and making others feel comfortable. Um, and a l- I - yeah.

So I, I... It's just interesting to think about that. But I also think about, um, on your journeys and just the food and just all the experience and just so much of the different cultures, um, I'm sure Gran Canaria is your favorite place, right? You're there right now.

But as you look back, what were some of the other like super highlights that just kinda checked all the boxes for you? Christine McGinnis: every place I rest my head, I feel at home. Hmm. I think that if you're always yearning for someplace else or, "Oh, remember when..."

No, these things don't cut it. You gotta, you've gotta really be present. Um, and, uh, I feel like I've got a fairly decent handle on that. Um, and so, so yeah, some places are kind of, you know, I look more fondly on than others.

Um, but at the end of the day, uh, I feel very, I feel very fortunate to of be an interloper somehow, where I've been able to experience so many different cultures, and to live with the locals, to yeah, kind of breathe, breathe, uh, breathe the air. I mean, yeah, it's - it feels like a lot of lifetimes I've been able to kind of put into Dan Ryan: Yeah. I al- I - And I also think it's a, it's one of the, um, boons of working in our hospitality design industry because a lot of you've become...

You - Like the opportunity is to experience and just put that first foot in front of the other and just- Experience everything. And in your case, you like literally go around the world. Um, and, and just the ability to or have, create these places all over the world is, is, is a real draw. I'm also - A lot of people don't take advantage of that, and why do you think that is?

Christine McGinnis: I don't know. It can be any host of reasons, you know? Um, again, it kinda does come back to that openness piece. You know, you gotta obviously have your passport, you know, you've gotta have the, the kind of the door open, the opportunity and that.

Hmm. Um, but those are tactical things. Those are not strategic kinds of, of issues. Or m- maybe the better, maybe the bet- open to that, you know?

Dan Ryan: I think may- maybe the better question is, if someone is sitting at a desk somewhere in North America, and they've always had that travel bug, but they didn't know how to take that first step, you know, what advice do you have for them to, to g- have the courage to, to take it and go on this journey? Christine McGinnis: Always just do it. Always just do it. Um, that's all I can say.

I mean, I am, uh, I'm so proud. One of my dearest friends that I've known since I was nine years old, uh, he left Canada and went to university in the US. Um, he's probably one of the most talented people I know, um, and has lived in New York for the - basically his entire adult life, and he's just moved to Paris, uh, last June actually. And I am so happy, like, because he's a very much a bit of a homebody, and I don't think he'd mind me saying that.

but, basically the point being is you're never too old, you're never too kind of aligned with one place. Uh, you can learn. You, you - I mean, to me, travel and, and, and, and, and experiencing other cultures is the way that you become more whole know, that's just me. Dan Ryan: No, but I, but I, I, I, I think it's worthwhile sharing that because I think that there's so many people out there that one of the reasons why they got into design is to be able to experience and create all these amazing spaces.

Um, but sometimes there's just that inertia or fear or something that's holding them back. But I don't know, like for, for you going - like the, on the logistics side of moving all around the world, what was like the most difficult challenge that you experienced? Moving to a new country. Christine McGinnis: Where to begin?

I mean, Dan Ryan: But then, but then the - you realize, like, as difficult as it was, you're like, "Okay, I got that," and it, Christine McGinnis: Yeah. Dan Ryan: one. But yeah, what was the most difficult experience? Christine McGinnis: Seriously, where to begin?

I mean, I, I, I honestly like, you know, at the end of the day, most of this stuff is paperwork, you know, so it's fine. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of challenges, like, um, just by virtue of, um, my spouse being a, a woman, immediately takes off, uh, so many locations around the world, you know, because it's just simply not acceptable, you know? Um, so yeah, you gotta be a little clever things. you know, that's a reality.

Uh, but yeah, I mean, ultimately it's all paperwork. Uh, and yeah, you've gotta - I think also by being Canadian, we like to make sure that we, we do things properly. And I've done things properly and Dan Ryan: And generally well-liked globally. Christine McGinnis: yeah, I - there's - I, I would bore everyone, all, all of your listeners to tears with the, the minutiae of it all.

Uh, but that's at, at the end of the day, that's basically what it is. So bottom line, go. Go and just do it. That is the key.

Uh, Noted. Thing I would, I would tell people, " Dan Ryan: Noted. And then, so now here you are at Wave. You've just done your first set of drawings in, entirely in Spanish, so your brain is growing, your, your abilities are growing.

Um, what's exciting you most about the future right now? Christine McGinnis: I think the, um, the resurgence of analog, Dan Ryan: you have to tell me about that because I have - that's the first time I've heard that in a while. So tell me what you mean by that. Yes, because I find that exciting because everything is so digital.

Christine McGinnis: no, this is like, this is going to be extremely, extremely large. Um, especially when you're talking to some of the younger folks out there. Hmm. People are - they're loathing, um, I'm generalizing definitely.

Dan Ryan: can generalize. We can do whatever we want. There's no rules on a podcast. Christine McGinnis: and yeah, we're digital and we're talking about analog, you know?

Um, but um, desire to get back to those, really base human touch points is a massive driver. especially... And, and I, I do feel very fortunate actually being kind of Gen X, that we kind of had one foot before all of this stuff came about, and then ushered it in and we're adept at kind of both, both ends We've created Frankenstein. Kids, you know, that, that don't know a world Mm.

That, they're - they have a deep yearning for that kind of connection, that kind of, that, that that meaning, you know, and, and, and those moments, you know. I think that is a massive, massive, uh, uh, piece in our exist- like in our, our day-to-day, what's, know? Dan Ryan: do you know what's interesting? I think so often, like I'm gonna say we, but I'm just really I.

I go through life and I experience all these things and I, sometimes I don't get that frame of reference, um, or I miss it entirely just 'cause I'm focused on one foot in front of the other. But on this, um, craving of analog, I had this crazy experience about two winters ago. I was in Tokyo, and I'm newly into photography, and I was looking for this particular lens for a digital camera, and I, I was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna go on an adventure and go to all these used camera stores," and, you know, just 'cause everything in Japan is so awesome and organized, and you can find, you can find the craziest, most specific things.

But while I was on this odyssey, um, only going on public transportation, like all over To- and Tokyo is freaking enormous. I went to all - I found some of these shops where there were all these young kids, and when I say young kids, I'm saying like 16 to 22, who were... I was looking for a, a, a used digital camera lens, uh, a pri- a specific prime lens to work with my Sony, and there were all these kids that were coming in looking for film cameras, but like weird film cameras from the '80s and '70s.

Not like ancient ones, like more modern ones from when we grew up and, and just the... There was a whole counterculture, and I think you could make a documentary on these folks. But it was, it was, as you said, this craving of analog. I feel like that's what I missed.

I didn't really understand why that was happening, but I think maybe it has to do a lot with that craving of analog. So yeah, tell me more about like what, what you're seeing and how that, how that is. Christine McGinnis: I mean, some of my fondest memories were spent in the dark room. Mm.

You know, kind of mixing the, the chemicals, you know, like making sure you've got the right paper and praying to God everything turned out all right. Yeah. Um, an aspect of chance and, um, discovery. Like there's so much a- that, and I think it's a, a reaction now.

I think people that are seeking that, it is definitely a reaction against, you know, kind of the surveillance capitalism that we're all living under. Um, desire to truly be kind of free and to explore something that you find interesting, you know, Dan Ryan: I love the darkroom an- uh, analogy too because, although not an analogy like your experience, but Yeah. Digital, like, okay, you can mess around with all these things, but it's pretty precise. In the darkroom, you g- you - I feel like you would be way more surprised by kind of wonderful mistakes that might happen, right?

Christine McGinnis: 100%. Dan Ryan: And it's hard to create wonderful... Um, people can do it, but to create those wonderful mistakes when everything is so precise and digital as well. Christine McGinnis: Well, it's that, that notion of serendipity, Mm.

I mean - And so I think, you know, when I, when I speak about analog, I think that, that it kind of encapsulates, you know, a lot of that, you know, just chance aspect, that serendipitous kind of aspect. You know, these, things that again, really kind of, you know, put us, put us in the present and put us, uh, I don't know, the heart, the heart and, and who we are. I, you know - Um, and I think that's, that's magical. That's - a reminder of who we are.

Dan Ryan: So if people wanted to learn more about this analog craving and, and, and creating these wonderful spaces and to see all the things that you and Wave are doing, what's a good way for them to get in touch and learn more? Christine McGinnis: Yeah, certainly all the usual suspects. Um, LinkedIn, um, uh, our website, uh, wave.global, because again, we're very open.

Dan Ryan: You're global. Got it. Christine McGinnis: yeah, th- those are probably the best Dan Ryan: we'll be sure to put all that up there, and I just wanna say thank you because I, I know we've gotten to catch up In Asia. Yeah.

I have not caught up with you in Europe yet, but - and then all throughout North America. But it's just so awesome to do this where in the world is Carmen San Diego with you, and to see you where you are, and to hear about all the exciting things that you're doing. So I just wanna say thank you for sharing your experience and story with all of us, and hopefully it'll give someone the courage to go west or maybe east. It doesn't matter.

South. Just go somewhere. Doesn't Experience. Get out there and do it.

Christine McGinnis: God, I can't even imagine. Like, we've known each other for a really long time, and I have no idea where those years went. Dan Ryan: Yeah, they just kinda - they're in the rearview mirror. I Christine McGinnis: They really Dan Ryan: it's, unbelievable.

But, Christine McGinnis: But we forge ahead, Dan Ryan: yeah, we do. And it's so e- Christine McGinnis: things. Dan Ryan: and it's so exciting to see your journey and I'll be sure to, I don't know. I don't know when I'm gonna get to Gran Canaria, to be perfectly honest, but I've made it to the Azores.

Christine McGinnis: Well, Dan Ryan: was just in Morocco, so that was close. But Christine McGinnis: Yeah, come Dan Ryan: I wasn't there. I was here. I was in the south.

Christine McGinnis: here. Dan Ryan: Yeah. So, Christine McGinnis: fast. Dan Ryan: we need to connect in person analogly.

Analogly? In the analog versions of ourselves, and, uh, I really look forward to it. So Christine, thank you so much. Christine McGinnis: No.

Besos. Gracias. Dan Ryan: and also besos to all of our listeners because without you, we wouldn't be talking to amazing people like Christine and seeing what her journey is, and hopefully inspiring other people to take their leap forward. And if you wanna l - if you think anyone could benefit from this, please forward this to them.

We - a lot of this is just gained by, um, word of mouth. And if this has changed your idea on hospitality, designing for hospitality, please don't forget to like, subscribe, and pass it on.