Check out POW! DaVita's Power of Women: Connecting with Women Leaders, Part 2: Balancing Career & Family

Speaker A: Foreign. Hi, and welcome to DaVita's Power of Women podcast. I'm Grace Berman, a senior director with DeVita University and co host of our DeVita Leadership Insights podcast. I am honored to host this two part crossover episode where I get to connect with four of our women leaders who founded this podcast series. Kathleen Waters, Chief Legal Officer, Rebecca Griggs, Group Vice President, Stephanie Hendrickson, Group Vice president, and Betsy McCoubrey, group vice president and Deputy General Counsel. Today we continue our Connecting with Women Leaders episode by exploring the topic of balancing career and family. The next question I'd love to get to is around this eternal quest of balancing career and family. It comes up so, so often, it seems, in many of my conversations. Uh, Betsy, I'd love to start with you if you could share a bit about how you think around balancing between work and home and what strategies have worked for you.

Speaker B: First, I'm 47. I've been working my adult life and I've been married for 20 plus years. I have two girls, uh, almost 10, almost 15. The reason I say all those things is I had family and had a professional career for a long time, and I, I've never gotten the balance just right. Like, it's never been this 50, 50 utopia of like, it's going wonderful here and it's going wonderful here. Um, but, you know, back to the concept of journey, it's back to the first podcast that, um, you know, Kathleen did, where it's your different phases of life and just being honest with yourself of where do I need my time today or this year and where does it need to be? And sometimes it has to be disproportionate or 60, 40 with your family just because of where you are in your phase of life. And whether that's your kids, whether that's, whether that's your spouse or your partner, or whether that's your parents. Uh, and sometimes you're over investing and spending a lot of time, uh, on your career and your career development. And I think really the key is just get comfortable with that because it's probably not gonna be this wonderful static utopia. It's gonna evolve over time and it's gonna shift over time and just be honest with yourself and honest about where you are in that moment, not where you think your parents want you to be or not where you think your boss wants you to be in that moment. The other thing I'll say is I'll channel my inner Stephanie, who I actually get wonderful advice from on this. And she uses the concept of boundaries a lot. And, um, I love that concept. And it is in your work life at least to say, where are my non negotiables? And I'm not gonna apologize for it. Right. Like, for some people, it's, I'm not gonna miss birthdays or I'm gonna do the kid drop off. For me, it's, I don't work from seven to nine at night and I don't work Saturdays, and I'm pretty unapologetic. I won't accept your invite. Um, for those times, that's when I do bedtime routine, or more appropriately, I take a power nap while my kid is reading to me in their bed. Um, but I use that time for my friends or my family and for that time. And so I would say, come up with your boundaries. And if you're a manager, do your teammate just a big favor and ask them. Um, I actually never articulated my boundaries. And so then I'd get kind of annoyed when people would schedule something that was in one of those times. And I'd be like, what are they doing? Don't they know? And of course they didn't. And it wasn't until my manager, who was Kathleen actually at the time, said, like, you have boundaries. If you don't have boundaries, you need boundaries. What are your boundaries? And I said, well, I do this and that. And she was like, great. I'm not gonna schedule anything during those times and don't accept anything and be okay with that. And so that was a wonderful gift for me. And I would say to every manager out there, give that gift, um, to your teammates and ask them where they are. And teammates, be reasonable. Um, nothing crazy here. Cause that will lead to a different convers where you might need to cultivate some confidence m in having that, uh, in both of those areas.

Speaker A: Oh, that's great.

Speaker C: That's great.

Speaker A: And Rebecca, how about you? Um, anything you'd like to share about how you balance?

Speaker C: Yeah. So, first of all, Betsy's super brave. Just share her age. Like, straight out there. I'll say I'm older than Betsy, Uh, and I have three kiddos. So now they're all three in high school, which is just like a different kind of excitement around my house. There are so many sentiments that you shared, Betsy, that resonate with me as well. With just like, hey, it's just this work in progress constantly and trying to, like, dial it into like this perfect balance. Like, I've never mastered that right now. I'm in a point in time where I'm like, I'm really not crushing it on this question. This is good accountability for me to just kind of tighten up and get a little bit more specific about it. But one of the things that has always helped me is just having a lot of clarity around what my priorities and having confidence around with those prayers I've never been apologetic about. I want to be a good mom. I want to be a good wife, and I want to be a great teammate. And those things don't always happen in, like, perfect proportions throughout the time of my career. The one thing that I wish that I would have learned a little bit sooner in my career is that you don't have to stay static in what you're looking for. And so, quick examples. I remember whenever I had my first child, I was like, I want to stay home with them. And this was before remote. Working was such a common thing. And so asking to stay at home a couple of days, um, and working from home felt like a really big deal to me. And then by the time I got to my third child, I was like, I really do not want to be home. Could you put me on the road?

Speaker D: Is the only way that I'm going

Speaker C: to get a good night's sleep. But I'm one of those people that I'm like, when I make. I ask something, I can decide and commit. And it felt a little bit out of place for me to step back and say, hey, I want to change what I told you before. So what I learned was put some time bounds around what you want and what those boundaries are, and then be totally fine going back and revisiting those boundaries, um, when things change in your life. And as I was bought, like, I want to take my foot off the gas. And then is that always going to put me in a space where I never get considered for something? No. That does not have to always last. And so just be like you said, Betsy, articulate, You know, articulate what you want and be clear and confident in what you're looking for.

Speaker A: That's great. On the topic of career and family, I think, or another, uh, area of that topic is around maternity leave. And I'll tell you, it's been a while since I've had my kiddos. They're 10 and 12 now. And I do remember that time, uh, in those early years were some of the toughest times for me where I really questioned whether I could continue in my leadership role at work and whether or not I had to choose between being a good mom and a good leader or a good teammate. I'm curious, uh, Stephanie, um, how did you make the decision? I know you have kiddos as well. How did you make the decision to continue investing in your career after you became a mom?

Speaker E: Yeah, I appreciate the question, um, because, uh, just for context, my Girls are currently 6 and 4, and so I'm actually not that far removed from remembering kind of what the experience was of going out on my first maternity leave and just wondering, could I do it? And so the first thing, uh, that I would say, grace, is, um, number one, uh, before I had my first kiddo, I thought that I wanted to keep working, and I was pretty bullish on the fact that I would, but I actually refused to sort of put that stake in the ground and say, nope, I'm going to come back and do and be all these things. Because I wanted to get myself the grace of actually figuring out what it was to be a mom. And this was the first time I'd entered something like this. Now, to the surprise of none of my family and none of my friends, I absolutely wanted to come back and continue to hopefully grow and evolve in my leadership. And I think probably the second most important thing was that as I sort of started that journey of coming back as a working mom, it was this very interesting time where I felt very, very different. But no one else thought I was that different. Meaning I sort of showed up on day one and was like, gosh, I've been through all these things that no one knows, and all these people didn't actually realize it. And what I had to work on a whole bunch was just making sure I gave myself the grace to sort of figure out how I was gonna navigate this new normal that was, I have this amazing, incredible opportunity at home and the one at work, and then I'm gonna pull back a little to say, you know, how I made it work, especially coming back from maternity, where you're quite nervous, is I was just really, really open with my leadership. You know, I had the, uh, Rebecca actually being, uh, my boss when I came back from my first maternity. Um, and I wasn't ashamed to sort of share some of the things that I was struggling with about that kind of phase of life where, I don't know, maybe I'll be a little vulnerable. Like, I was an emotional mess, right, in months four and five. And so if I knew I was kind of going, I just, I was okay having that conversation so that I could work through it together, both with my leader, uh, and then also with my team. And so, you know, and I talk to especially first time moms or just moms of young kids. Where if you're something like me, you know, I have mornings where I walk in and. And I'm like, y' all don't know. But I just ran a marathon putting like clothes on my 2 year old who didn't wanna wear pants and all the things. Right. And so there was just something about being able to have that open dialogue. And then I encourage the same for every person that's sort of going out is one, don't worry about what the future holds. Take it in stride. Give yourself the gift of time to figure it out. Two, kind of have grace with yourself. And then three, you have to communicate and be open with it because no one's gonna know what's going on with you if you don't kind of have that courage to bring them in.

Speaker D: And grace before I. I'm gonna jump in on this one too. So two things. One, just to build on that last comment, because you know we're talking about, oh, we had the benefit of having each other or women as our leaders. And if you don't have that and if you feel like, okay, I'm not sure I could tell, um, my manager, because he doesn't have kids or she doesn't have kids or he has a stay at home wife and how can he possibly understand what I'm going through? I think that's the reason we have this group and why we're trying to start this is there are women in the village. If you turn the corner, you will find someone to talk to. Um, and if you turn the corner, you can talk to them and they can even help you with your leader if you need it. But find someone because it is important to be able to talk about it even if you don't feel totally safe in talking about it with your manager at the time. And hopefully you can build that relationship because men are super leaning in on this too. And my boss believes in family more than anybody else I know. And so it is super supportive of that. So you can find it. But even if you can't find it directly up, find it in the village. Cause it's here.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I love talking to women about, um, maternity leave and early child rearing. I think it helps me like therapeutically to talk about it.

Speaker D: So that's me with menopause.

Speaker C: Yeah, there you go.

Speaker A: Stages of life. Phases and stages of life for sure. But it is different. I mean, I think, I think we'd all be fooling ourselves if we said it wasn't different. Um, for when Women become moms versus when dads become. Or men become dads. There is something, uh, that is hard, I think, to talk about unless, you know, that somebody else might be able to understand. And so that is kind of a nice thing to have that community.

Speaker D: Yeah. And if I think about when I had to make that decision, it's interesting because I never actually got to make the decision myself at the time when I was, um, nine months pregnant or nine and a half months pregnant. Um, my husband's company went bankrupt. And so. And he was an entrepreneur by trade, and so. And it was a huge company. They had big investments, big PE Investments. And the whole thing was, um, went belly up. And so I didn't have the luxury of deciding whether or not I was gonna go back to work because we had rent to pay. Um, and so I went back to work, and at the time, I was in. Incredibly guilt ridden. Um, and unfortunately, I was guilt ridden because of the people around me. M. That I was in a community where very few women made that choice. And so it was this huge thing of, like, what am I. Am I being so selfish about this? And I had a girl, though, so I'm older than everybody here, and my kids are 22 and 20. Um, and it made me realize when I came home, like, you know what? I'm doing this for you, too. I'm not just paying the rent. And it's actually one of the things, again, I'm going for more parenting, maybe, that. I never say I'm working just to make money or I'm working for them to, like, make ends meet. I'm saying I'm working for me. That I am doing this job, and I am working as hard as I work. And I work hard for me because I love it. I love my job, and I love being a leader, and I love being someone that other people can look up to. And so for my girls, I never say, like, oh, I'm sacrificing for you. Like, I'm doing this for me. And we all benefit because we get to pay the rent with it too. So my husband did end up. He started another company. And then, um, interestingly, when I was pregnant with my second child, my company went bankrupt. Um, my law firm went bankrupt when I was nine and a half months pregnant with my second child. So we decided we wouldn't procreate again. So it's not to hurt the economy, save the world. Um, but I had that choice then. Cause it was like, okay, my firm is now kaput. What do I do? We have two beautiful kids, and my husband and I had a good conversation about it. And I realized, you know what? I do love my job, and I don't want to give it up. Um, and so I am going to lean in. And so I actually went out on the interviewing train at nine and a half months pregnant to get my, uh, uh, backup job. Um, awkward conversations. And that's a whole nother story. I have a good. Why I picked the firm. I pick story. Um, but it was very intentional. And so I think that this group, we're really focused on women at that level because it is where you want to. Where you feel like you want to check out or give up. And so it's really important to, as Rebecca said, take a step back. It doesn't have to be static. Like, if you want to take more time, take more time then. But leave that door open so that in five years from now, you can jump back in, because it doesn't have to be the same.

Speaker A: I like the message of doing it for you or finding a reason to do it and almost giving yourself permission to enjoy your work, enjoy your career, enjoy your ability to, um, earn not only for the family, but also to, uh, enrich yourself. So thank you. Thanks for sharing that. Well, we are coming to an end now of our episode, and I'd love to end our episode with a request for everyone if you could share one piece of advice a woman leader gave you that helped you and still sticks with you today. So we'll do, uh, a bit of a lightning round here, Betsy. We'll start with you, figure out the life hacks.

Speaker B: Um, so I'm gonna do everybody a solid and just give one of my, uh, life hacks. Um, and that is, I loathe ironing. Uh, um, and so, uh, my ironing would stack up because I also am not going to pay the prices for women's blouses at the dry cleaners. It's ridiculous. And that's a different story. So in any event, my. My pile of ironing would build up. And so finally came with the brilliant idea of, uh, you iron in the shower. So what it means is you just hang your shirt, uh, on a hanger, you pop it in the shower. It's like three showers. It gets the steam right. It's just there. And then it's enough wrinkles that by the time you're probably at work, they've fallen out.

Speaker A: I can't see any right now. No, right.

Speaker B: Like, it's been, like, half a day. It's pretty good. So if you were to come to my house 100% of the time. You will see a shirt or a blouse, um, in the shower. But I do not iron anymore and my clothes are reasonably respectable and I don't pay. Ah, outrageous. So anyways, I just encourage all women to just ask other women for their, um, life hacks. It gets you through.

Speaker A: Love it. Love it. How about you, Stephanie?

Speaker E: The one that I was told again, and it ties a little bit to what we talked about earlier in the podcast, is just be really honest with yourself about what you want, not what everybody else wants for you. And if you're not sure what that is, you can ask, you can solicit feedback, but you are the person that needs to decide what you want, not everybody else.

Speaker A: Rebecca.

Speaker C: Yeah, so it came up so many times in the conversation today about authenticity and just being yourself. And the add on that I would say to that is don't apologize for who you are. It's actually what brings the diversity and perspectives is just showing up as who you are. You represent some subset of people that are influenced by the conversations and decisions and so be authentic and don't apologize for it.

Speaker D: Kathleen Mine's don't sweat the small stuff. So don't worry about if you have to order pizza two days in a row, don't worry about it. And I remember the woman who told me this, I was in a trial and it was a five week trial. We were away from our families and I was worried about my husband with the kids alone and doing this and this. And she was telling the story about that she would come home and her cutlery would be like in the laundry room. And she'd be like, why is the cutlery? And she'd want to go say something. She's like, wait a minute, the kids are alive. That's all that really matters. And so the bar is quite high for me. Or low. Whatever perspective is. It's like, I'm not. If people are happy and healthy, the house can be a mess sometimes. It doesn't really matter. Um, if the gift isn't perfectly wrapped for that four year old birthday party. Um, don't sweat the small stuff. Focus on the big things.

Speaker A: Wow. Well, thank you all for your candor and insights today and for starting this podcast series for the Village. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in to DeVita's power of women. I hope you feel as connected and empowered as I do right now. And please remember to hit that subscribe button on this podcast series so you don't miss any episodes and we'd also love to hear your feedback. So please click on the survey link in the show notes and give us your thoughts and suggestions. This is Grace Berman thanking you for leading with your hearts and understanding the power of DeVito women.