The AI Skills Gap: What It Really Takes to Bring a Workforce on the Journey

Speaker A: Welcome to Data and AI Mastery, the podcast where we sit down with the data and AI leaders shaping the future of business. I'm, um, your host, Raul Gabriel Erma. Um, today we're doing something a little different. One of the things I love about hosting this show is what happens when you step back from the individual conversations and look at the bigger picture. Themes keep coming back across different industries and companies, no matter what stage of the AI journey they find themselves on. This episode is built around one of those themes. Today we're focusing on people, specifically data and AI skills, because if there's one thing that has come up in almost every conversation this year, it's this. The technology is the easy part. Getting people ready for it, that's the hard part. You are going to hear from Jessica Russu, Chief data Information and Intelligence Officer, uh, at the Financial Conduct Authority, from Nick Edwards and Harjuhal at the aa, who are on one of the most impressive AI transformation journeys I've come across. And from Senior data and AI leaders at organizations including Aviva Santander, UK, Oxford said business school and TransUnion, I think what they have to say about curiosity, about fear, and about what it actually takes to bring a workforce on an AI journey will really resonate with you. Let's get into it.

Speaker B: There's the obvious things of people who, ah, you know, got a level of courage, um, they've got hard work ethic. But I think the quality that always stands for me is the curiosity 1. People who always want to pull on that string to think, but what if this or what if that? So they don't take the answer straight away. They'll go away, they'll inquire, they'll play, uh, they'll be curious with it. And I think with AI, that's the sort of mindsets we want because it's not a technology that's been around readily for 10, 20 years. So you can use it and make advantage very quickly if you've got the hunger and desire and the curiosity to really want to do that. So that's what we're really saying to people. You know, we've been delighted with the work with Cambridge Spark and the transformation we're doing with all our senior leaders. And, um, I was at, you know, Cohort one at Cambridge only last week, and in the four months from the two visits, the amount of progression our, uh, cohorts had made was phenomenal. Uh, and to see some of the presentations, I shared it with the executive team at our weekly meeting last week. I was blown away. With how far people had come in four months in their thinking. And they were doing demos of live activity within four months. And I spoke to them at the end of the day and said some of you probably shocked yourselves by how far you've come. And they were, yeah, it is. But I could see that there was a real belief and confidence in what we'd work partnering with yourselves and your organization that if informants you can achieve that much while people are still doing the day job. Imagine when you really create the center of excellence in Nick's world and really get the technology flowing into the whole business, what the potential could be.

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. How does that make you feel, Nick? Because it feels like it's really special times.

Speaker C: Yeah, it does. It's felt really good. I mean, um, we clocked really early on that this technology was going to be a little bit different. The AA has been through every wave of technology over the last 120 years. Right. So you can imagine the path this business has been on. If you look back at our heritage, it's fascinating. We used to run this business with a whole bunch of cartographers building maps and all that sort of stuff. Very different business today. But it became really clear to us like a year or so ago that, uh, although there was a desire, a lot of our colleagues didn't quite know what to do. And this AI you're being hit with every day, new technologies emerging, new models emerging. So we really clocked for our leaders skills was going to be important. Like how do we get everybody to understand the way to reimagine the way we do things in the business. So part of that was, you know, working with Cambridge Spark and building out a program for our leaders. Secondly, tooling. We had some choices to make on tooling for our colleagues. And what we found really early on was that, uh, giving colleagues the tools they are using outside of work had a massively disproportionate effect if they could use the same tools inside of work. So that's why we decided actually to buy 1500 ChatGPT enterprise licenses, deploy them securely, get all of the guard works, the guardrails and frameworks right, so that colleagues could use them safely with all of our, uh, connectors and confidential information. But like that combination of giving everybody a set of skills, giving them some space and time to work with colleagues they don't normally work with, to practice skills in a safe way, and then a bunch of tooling with some skills and upskilling how to use it as that, like a Hardshed within four or five months. We've just seen the water level rise across the organization really quickly into the space. Now we've got these cohorts. I'm on Cohort 2, we've got a bunch of colleagues on Cohort 3, we've got 50 more use cases that have entered the system, many of their way. Many of them are going to make their way to production pretty shortly.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker E: As a personal kind of angle, I completely believe in the democratization of AI and it's certainly something that we've led with in Aviva as well. So why do I believe that? Uh, it's probably a bit of a multifaceted answer is the truth. Firstly, you can learn a lot from what's happened in the past. So if I use the digital revolution, actually what we saw there was people who had access to the right capabilities. The, there's a socioeconomic advantage to that. So actually, you know, culturally, broadly, I, uh, think people having access to things which are fundamentally a power for good in their lives, which I believe AI is a force for good, um, that is helpful and valuable for human beings and for people in general. So there's kind of almost on that level, I believe it, um, I also think that it's incredibly important for culture in the organization. You know, there's, there's so many headlines around about AI out there and not all of some are true, some aren't, some are quite alarmist. I think the way to help people through that, that noise and it's a lot is to allow them to, to use things, to allow them to experience things and to know and understand what that means for them in their, in their day to day life. If you keep it as a thing over there that only a select group of people are using, I think that adds to the fear, actually. I think that adds to the discomfort. Once you can see something yourself, once you can have a go at using it yourself, all of a sudden you go, oh, okay, actually I get that now. I can see why that's, why that's sensible. So, so that's sort of almost the second bit and then the third bit is probably actually a bit more tied to the, um, kind of commercial benefits maybe. I have never seen any kind of technology that you need to use. You know, this is so almost humanistic in, in kind of how you, you know, you chat to it. What I have found with, with just about is they all have a hard moment when they get involved and they use it, um, and then they start to become more effective and you Start to see people welcoming actually the capability into their day to day roles. And I think if you don't do that, that's the commercial angle of it actually. People will resist. So if you try to do something really brilliant across the viva, it's a great customer outcome, it's a brilliant project, it's going to save time, it's going to save money, it's delivering a better outcome. If people feel SC about it, then you will have, I tend to say, organ rejection. Whether it's good or not, if they're scared of it, they'll just go, I don't want it, I don't want it. So you have to drive that kind of culture and that adoption and that sort of natural curiosity to actually get some of the commercial business benefits as well as thinking about the sort of broader societal picture.

Speaker F: It's a daily challenge, opportunity, privilege, uh, and the honest answer is you can't, you can't get your arms around all of it because of the pace it's changing and because of the breadth of use cases, scenarios, Personas, customers, stakeholders that exist. It's not physically possible. And you shouldn't beat yourself up thinking that you have to and you can't. Uh, you know, I'm quite honest with my, the school's leadership team, executive board, my senior management team, my team. I don't know the answer to everything. I can't tell you what the landscape of technology is going to look like next year. You gave a fantastic example of ChatGPT 3.5. To think, I think it was 5.4 this week. You know that uh, pace of change has happened over 12, 18 months. Uh, so, uh, these are the, lots of people will say it and you will have heard it many times. These are truly unprecedented times. It's a bit like a roller coaster, white knuckle ride. You've got to get in, you've got to go with it and you've got to hang on. Uh, uh, how do I influence that? Part of that is just expressing a clear journey. Um, and to all of those stakeholders setting out what that North Star looks like, what the art of the possible is giving people the confidence and the assurance that it's okay and it's safe and it's secure to use these tools and then as we've touched on, making sure we're following through by providing the digital skills to leverage, exploit and use them properly. And I think that's the art of it. Uh, it's almost adoption by influence, creating a climate where people understand what the purpose is and where we want to get to, why make these changes and then creating a culture of fomo, fear of missing out. I want to use these tools because these other departments are doing great things with them and delivering great benefits. So it's a combination of all of those.

Speaker G: So I think at the moment I sort of feel, um, again if I talk about AI, the conversation is you've got people who want to get involved in it and can't get involved in it. So I would make it accessible to everyone. Um, I know that's not always easy. Um, the other bit that I would try and remove if I had a magic wand is fear of AI. So I have a very positive outlook that I think the people who have expertise and they're the ones who run our business and they run it every day and they're sitting in the branches, they know more about products and probably everyone, the people who are sitting, you know, within the uh, kind of central functions, who really know how banking works, that is the expertise that we need in the future, they don't need to worry about AI. So I think AI is the bit at the moment which I think a lot of people are saying, oh, it's coming for our jobs, it's going to, I completely disregard that. I think this is going to make people's jobs much better. I think they're going to have AI as a kind of the energy boost that they need which will stop them having to do the low value stuff and we will accelerate all of the value add. So to remove the fear of AI would be my, my magic wand.

Speaker H: Yeah, this is tricky, isn't it? Because, uh, well, I actually have two, um, teenagers. So I will be helping them, you know, hopefully, uh, navigate that part of their life as well. And I think it's a, it's a tricky time. But the best advice that I can give anyone is to um, think about both your vertical skill set as well as your horizontal skill set. Sometimes it's called your T skills.

Speaker A: Can you tell us more about it?

Speaker H: Yeah. So if you think about what is your domain specialism. So for mine it was analytics, data, science, technology. So those are your kind of vertical skills. But if I think about the different moves that I made throughout my career, switching sectors, industries and also some of the board opportunities, you add this kind of horizontal set of skills that could be risk, uh, finance, audit, um, it could be hr, it could be strategy, it could be marketing. Um, so as you sort of think about what are those broadening skills and every time that I move, maybe from the automotive industry or into E commerce or into banking or finance or fintech or government. Every time you move you add another kind of string to your bow. And so I would tell anyone who's preparing for the future, no one can predict the future but the best thing that you can do is have your vertical domain expertise. But then always think about what can you do to expand your profile to give yourself more flexibility. Maybe it's taking an international assignment or making a move that might seem a little unconventional. Switch industry, switch firms and uh, that switching will just give you a lot more depth and breadth as a person and then make you hopefully ready for whatever it is to come.

Speaker A: Can you walk us through in your view, how important is it to, to upskill and what was your experience like?

Speaker I: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a topic which um, comes up every day that uh, you know what I learned, I think it was about five or or so years ago now. Um, the world has changed so much. So the foundation stayed the same. Uh, but Gen AI have, have really took off since then. So it's important to keep up to date both myself personally. So you know, attending conferences, listening to other colleagues, reading publications, podcasts, etc. But equally well my team, how can I ring friends time for them to stay up to date because otherwise there becomes a time when they won't be able to do their job equally well. Uh, the needs of the business evolve. So it's important that the teams will continue to learn and adopt to try new techniques and equal well for them. Um, my teams feel very um excited. One of the um attributes to award winning team is that unsatiable satiation to keep learning. So um, that need to keep understanding and learning and trying new things is one characteristic that I've observed of um high performing teams. In terms of my own personal experience I say that having done the apprenticeship was a very powerful experience to not just go in the theory but also help me to apply the theory um, to practice. And that was very fruitful to the organization that helped me to do the apprenticeship together with other people. We set up a whole department through the um algorithms that we developed as part of the apprenticeship scheme. It was a risky project. So I think if it wasn't for Cambridge park to help me um read the apprenticeship scheme, most pro that project would have never got off the ground because it was high risk, high reward. But here now we can talk about um, the success of the story. So it's important for people I'd say to keep an open mind, invest in themselves it is not easy obviously if people are working and learning. It does take a bit of input, but it does pay back big dividends.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you won the um, Apprentice, uh, of the year award with uh, bcs, the British Computer Society. So I mean, phenomenal result, Kevin.

Speaker I: Yeah, thank you. And I uh, think you were with me on that day. You remember the surprise on my face. And that surprise comes in because I did this because I enjoy the job. Right. And that's the message that I give to people. Make sure that you enjoy what you do. Uh, and if you enjoy what you do, the rest will fall in place. Right. So I always describe that my hobby and m. My job became the same thing. Um, and uh, you know, I enjoy what I do and that what drive, what's drive? The passion to learn, to adopt, to try new things. So that's the key success for me personally to have invested so heavily in, in my career.

Speaker D: We think upskilling equals always learning in the traditional way of learning. So when I think of learning, always think of the mandatory training courses I need to go through and it's not exactly appealing, right to the majority of the, let's uh, say of the workforce, especially right now in 2025. And our attention span basically is reduced to 30 second reels right as we are scrolling through our mobile. And that's kind of the consumptions that we are expecting. So like a TikTok reel or Instagram reel. Um, so I think you need to bring learning and upskilling to the 21st century and especially to the year 2025, almost 2026. So kind of adapt this learning path. So it's not the traditional classroom learning, you know, and like that's kind of properly perceived as not so super attractive. Um, you need to give people an experience. I think what really gets stuck when we run certain events, ah, is like if people feel that um, this is an experience where they can not only learn but actually emotionally connect to this, they have way better takeaways and the impact that you create is way bigger. So obviously running events like hackathons and on site challenges is more resourceful and more costly. It doesn't allow you to scale, as for instance with online events or videos. But I think it's a combination of those two things. I think it's really the on site experience where people connect, there's emotional connection, you have some gamified experiences. I think that's, that always works really well and you see those light bulb moments and you can interact with those people when they have those Light bulb moments. So I think this really creates some spark. But you can also really take it um, to online, right. So you have different kind of videos, let people share, let people brag about what they build and what they achieve with it. Just don't think learning is like top down from uh, you know, learning team, you know, um, to the rest of the workforce is like let people share the experience. Right. What's working really well on social media is people are bragging, people are bragging about the holidays, you know, about the food that they're eating. People brag about the custom GPT that they have built.

Speaker A: I see.

Speaker D: It's like let people write, give them a platform, you know, no judge, you know, not being judgmental, you know, just let them brag about and let's say this is what I've done, this is what I've built, this is the impact that I've created and here I am to share it with you and I give you access to this. So give them the space as well, you know, this platform to share this and this kind of community feeling. You know, I think building this emotional connection as well and saying you're doing something great right now, you're building something, you're part of an amazing journey and um, we're all in it together. So this kind of feeling of a community, this definitely helps you know as well to spark interest. So I think it's a different combination. You have different kind of tools and platforms that work but I think emotional connection is definitely one of them. And experience.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker J: I um, let me start out by saying that I have a 17 year old son, uh, and I'm trying to encourage him to get into technology and go to a university and do a degree and all these sorts of things. But really in my heart of hearts I am not sure whether I want him to do a degree because in three years it would probably be obsolete. Right. And the practical experience of being in a business I think is more important these days. Now I wouldn't tell him that because then it would be an excuse for him not to want to do a degree. And so, and I say that because people uh, when I recruit people are saying no, I have a degree in this, I don't think those things are really important anymore. What we are, what I look for in people is curiosity, right? Work ethic, curiosity, multiple different uh, interests in how they think about a problem, uh, that I think, you know, that's really important. Right. The next thing which I think is important is having people skill, the ability to collaborate Have a conversation, understand each other and find solutions for the business. I think I look for people like that. Now, you can't really judge a lot of that stuff in an interview, right? It's quite hard. But, uh, you know, when people can demonstrate that they are collaborative and the ability to find solutions, find a halfway ground, so to speak, I think are really important for me. That's what I look for. I don't look for qualifications, if that's what you were going towards, because I don't think those things are relevant anymore.

Speaker A: I like what you said, um, that, you know, curiosity is, uh, an important attribute, especially with AI, where you get a bunch of stuff that may be right or may be wrong. So kind of questioning it and being curious, um, it's really important.

Speaker J: But I think Steve Jobs said it in his Stanford address some, many, many years ago. Be curious, you know, whatever. And people just take that for. Just for the word that it is. But I always, I was saying this to my team the other day, actually. We're speaking about AI and I was saying that if you are not curious, if you are not curious, you will be irrelevant. Because at the speed at which things are moving and the amount of things that are happening around us, including myself, by the way, you would be irrelevant. So you have to be curious because everything you learn now, in six months, it's gone, it's gone to something else. Right? How are you going to keep ahead of the pack if you need to go to university every time? No, you got to figure out better ways of learning.

Speaker A: That's a wrap on today's episode. As you go away, ask yourself this. Not what tools your organization is using, but whether your people are, uh, genuinely equipped and ready to use them. That, more than anything else, is what separates the organizations making real progress from the ones still waiting for it to happen. If what you've heard today has sparked reflections, then check out the full conversations to go much deeper. You will find links to every episode featured in the show.

Speaker I: Notes.

Speaker A: If you found this rewind useful, please do subscribe, as it means you'll never miss a future conversation with the leaders driving data and AI forward. And if you're enjoying the show, a review on Spotify or Apple Podcast goes a long way. And finally, if you're a ah, data and AI leader looking to build real capability across your organization, Cambridge Spark can help. Find out more@ah, cambridgespark.com or connect with us on LinkedIn. Until next time, stay ahead, stay inspired and stay masterful.