Inside Dallas' Commercial Real Estate Future with TREC's Jamee Jolly

Welcome to Dallas Dirt. I'm your host, April Towery. I'm the Dallas City Hall reporter and I am here today with Jamie Jolly from the Real Estate Council. Welcome.

Thank you for having me, April. Appreciate it. tell me about yourself. You, came to the Real Estate Council recently, a few months ago from Uptown Dallas.

I have been with Uptown Dallas Inc., which is the public improvement district, and had been working with them for the last few years and, came over to Trek. 20 years ago, I was the Director of Programs and Public Policy, as well as one of the lobbyists for the Real Estate Council. And, so it was a great opportunity for me to reconnect with this organization and this industry.

And, yes, so I started back, I guess it's now been about two and a half months. And how's it going? You, we don't like to use the word replacing Linda McMahon, but, Linda McMahon was there before you and she was very well known in a powerhouse in the community. were you kind of watching what was going on at the real estate council and thinking maybe I'll throw my hat in Linda was actually on the board of the real estate council back when I was on staff originally.

So I did know Linda a little bit. I'd obviously tracked over the years, what the real estate council was doing in the community. everything from when I left we were working on the Clyde Warren Park project and then seeing them launch the Dallas Catalyst project and some of the different initiatives throughout the city. It just seemed like a great opportunity.

I really love membership organizations. I find that when people are paying member dues to be involved with an industry and an organization. They're very passionate and they're very focused. And, it's just makes my job really easy as their, president and CEO, allows me to pull in great partners and help, not just the industry, but the greater community.

what is TREC and what's the benefit of joining that group? Right. So the Real Estate Council, it's been around well over 30 years and it is the trade association for commercial real estate. you think about all the developers, the banks, title companies, real estate companies that are really involved in all the major commercial real estate in North Texas.

That's our membership. We want to make sure that our members are keeping up to date on all the issues that are relevant to their business, but also we're training that next generation of leaders. when you think of some of the icons in Dallas commercial real estate, those are people that are on the back end of their career. They're finding their time.

spent differently these days. They're retiring. So we want to make sure that that next generation is ready to step in and not just be good at their work when it comes to commercial real estate, but really be invested in this community. the commercial real estate industry has been great partners with the city and not just developing new developments that are bright and shiny, but also focusing on areas that are underdeveloped and underserved communities.

So what is what is the commercial real estate outlook right now? So we are coming off a couple of rough years. It's been a little bit difficult. the capital market's been tough but I talk to other people across the nation and they're like Dallas is so unique and different.

We continue to have a very strong market here. We continue to see Strong possibilities, new companies coming in, new, people that want to move into our community, bring their jobs to our community. Economic development is still very strong in our city and in the region. although we have seen a little bit of a dip in development, some projects have been delayed.

I think we're starting to come out of that. And we're very hopeful that over the next 12 to 18 months, we will start to see a little bit more of a rebound in the office market and in retail, and just looking at how our, developers and investors thinking about commercial real estate in the North Texas region. How do you advocate for or recruit So we're not necessarily on the front lines of economic development. We're not out looking for the businesses to bring here.

What we're doing is working with the commercial real estate professionals that are, Finding them office space and making sure that there's new construction coming online so that they have a place to call corporate headquarters. The city is very focused on things that impact commercial real estate. So public safety sidewalks pedestrian enhancements Any of those kind of things that are relevant to a project being successful We are keeping an eye on those and working with our partners at the city Your experience as a lobbyist or public affairs professional, probably gives you some insight into, how to best.

Lobby or advocate for those things. do you think that's an asset that you bring to track? I think lobbyists often get a bad name, but I think what it really is about is understanding the issues, related to a particular industry. It is about building those relationships at city hall.

knowing who to call on to say, did you even know this was a problem? we have developers in this phase of permitting, but to get to this phase, there are 17 other steps they have to take. did you know, this is so difficult having those kinds of conversations and having the relationships to be able to pick up the phone. That's very important.

There's a lot of change at City Hall right now, and we've been able to build good relationships with some of the newer staff that have come in and and also our existing relationships. Trek's been around quite a while, and we're fortunate that we know our way around City Hall, and we know who we can call on and kind of help us to better understand how we can respond. Do business in a better way in the city of Dallas. What are the big issues that matter to the commercial real estate industry right now?

So I would say let's focus locally you brought it up, but I have to bring it up because everybody I don't know why I get to own the issue. But digital kiosks when I was uptown Dallas, it was an issue. It really comes down to public safety. It's something we don't want to see on our sidewalks.

we feel like that's kind of backwards when you put a kiosk in the middle of a sidewalk whenever there's been so much attention on pedestrian safety and walkability. So we want to make sure that that's considered. it's unfortunate that it would be less revenue to the city if we didn't do the digital kiosk program But we feel like there's better ways to bring in the right revenue We know that's important for the city and we understand that we want to be a partner in helping identify New ways to bring in new revenue.

So that would be just one of the issues. parking reform is up for discussion we're working hand in hand with our our city partners and others other industry You I would say with parking reform, a lot of the conversation is eliminating parking any developer who is putting a project together, that's looking at who's their potential tenant, whether it be retail office, they are considering what parking requirements they have. They're going to need to entice the right tenant to their development each project is different and unique and there is no standard that's best served For our commercial real estate developers and the city currently I think if you have street part or your is about 10, 000 a parking spot is the cost.

If you put it in a garage, it's about 50, 000. So it's, it's making the pricing of everything from housing to retail to construction costs go up, which ultimately are going to get passed to the consumer. So, we think there's another hurdle there that we can eliminate by eliminating those parking standards and knowing that we still need to work together and make sure that we have adequate. parking, but also we need to leave it up to those that are building the projects and understand who the customer is they're building for, what kind of dynamics they have that are going to weigh in on their decisions about how to park their project.

What are the most attractive selling points about Dallas to a new business? Well, I'm a native Dallasite. I was born at Presby Hospital here in Dallas, and it's been exciting for me Through my lifetime of seeing Dallas evolve and just watching the growth that's happening here, not just in the city, but throughout the region. Dallas has such a can do attitude.

people think it's, cliche, but it's true. When you look at some of the big projects we've taken on as a city, Some of the industries that we brought to North Texas, and all the hubbub that's going on right now with Yall Street and the Convention Center, remodel. I think there's a lot to be said about what is available and the opportunities that exist here in our city. it's still affordable, to build here and, Move here compared to a lot of other cities.

We need to still work on that affordability And making sure that housing is affordable in the area But I do think that is why people bring their jobs here and we have great talent when I was over in uptown dallas, the talent here is amazing. When you look at the concentration of, tech banking industry and commercial real estate, there's just a great talent pool. And that's really what these companies are looking for. Tell me about Yall Street.

What's this concept? Yeah. So, I had the opportunity to get a little bit of a brief on it, but also, I heard the governor speak the other day at the Dallas citizens council and talking about it creating an opportunity for us to, create the Wall Street we imagined that will cater to industries unique to this area, but also that have somewhat been ignored when it comes to normal Wall Street, if you will. And so I think People see opportunity in North Texas and bringing that capital here in investing it, through that entity is a great opportunity for Texas.

It's well funded. several investors are eager and ready to get going. I think they've already claimed stake on where the office will be, at Knox, so it'll be interesting to see how that evolves over time. I think it's good for the capital markets and it's great for Texas.

tell me about this Uptown Dallas public improvement district. What is a public improvement district? I've always known about public improvement districts, but working for one was unique and different in Uptown, a lot of people don't understand what is defined as Uptown. if you look at the boundaries, it's Haskell over by North Dallas High School.

down the Katy Trail on the west side and then across Clyde Warren and up 75. within that area, property owners have committed to investing extra tax into improvements within the district. Uptown Dallas Inc. was, focused on a couple of key areas.

First being public safety. not only uptown Dallas, but downtown Dallas Inc. And other public improvement districts are very focused on. We know that our D.

P. D. Is stretched thin. We know that the resources are limited.

where I think Districts have a good opportunity is they are the feet on the ground every day in the district. They understand the dynamics and so a lot of them have their own public safety initiatives. at Uptown Dallas, we had a private security company. We also employed off duty dpd to help with some late night hours and things like that.

So public safety is important, building community, making sure you have opportunities for communities to engage. Uptown is such a gem in Texas and especially here in Dallas because you have a historic neighborhood. You have an area that's growing. I mean, there's I don't know how many cranes in the air right now, but growing with new construction and office and also in apartments And then you have a fairly young population a lot of people start their career living in uptown.

I lived in uptown 20 years ago and so I think Uh, just making sure that you're creating that community. So people want to stay in the area. They want to work in the area we focused a lot on pedestrian safety it's taking extra tax revenue that property owners have designated and putting it back into public improvements within the district. the largest one in Dallas is Downtown Dallas, Inc.

And Uptown Dallas is a little bit smaller as far as the public improvement district. So it's like a TIF district, the Tax Increment Financing District? It's just, there's no set time window. There is a separate Board of Directors and non profit entity that manages that.

District. they decide where the funds are being spent. each 7 to 10 years, the Public Improvement District Board has to be reauthorized, which means they have to go back out to all property owners to ask if they will continue to pay their tax assessment to the Public Improvement District. it's a good tool to have.

I think it's worked really well in Dallas. There's, I think currently about 13 public improvement districts. I need to look into that. I was going to ask you about your, Dallas Catalyst project, the Mill City project.

You have a leadership, group that is affiliated with TREC. Can you tell me about that? So our Associate Leadership Council, ALC, as a lot of people know it, this is our leadership development group. And so this year's class project, they chose a project in our district that we're focused on this year in Mill City.

there was an old ST Luke's Methodist Church building that had been donated to a local nonprofit, and they were able to work with that nonprofit to gut the building and make it where they can use it for more of a development facility. they help people that have been incarcerated. They're coming back into the community to get up to speed on job skills and how to manage finances. They also do some training on low voltage electricity.

Electrician work. So they're actually doing the training so these folks can go out and get jobs in our community the ALC class went out did their own fundraising and then received a grant from our community investors program to do some work in the district and Their project I would say they're probably going to wrap up construction in february but it's been exciting to see kind of that change in the community and More people Come by and see the project. They want to know who's working on it.

And how can we find out more? so we have that group and then also our young guns group. They came in and partnered with a program in south dallas fair park that to provide different services to help, is community development. We picked weeds and landscaped and took down some Old fencing and just really helped on the beautification and then we're also doing some on the outside facade of the building The building is used as a couple of retail spaces in there But there's like a dentist that comes in and donates services on saturdays There are there's a food bank that operates out of there.

There's some entrepreneurial training it's a really great community center where we find that Mill City is such an underserved area of our city. It's just on the fringes there of Fair Park. And so we've committed to three years, minimum of three years of work in that, that community. those are the first two projects.

we will continue work on the next few projects over the next few years. Hopefully we'll have a new project to announce here soon. I went to an event a while back where, some representatives from track. We're talking about a community land trust.

Is that still in the works? Dallas authorized for there to be community land trust developed within the city. we've seen them. happen already in, Fort Worth just stood up a community land trust.

Houston has one as well. And what it is, is the tool is really, Trek will not own the community land trust. We are one of about seven or eight partners that have come together. We're forming a board of directors currently, and we're helping to secure the initial seed funding a land trust works different ways in different communities.

Some of it is to go in and acquire land so that we can help make it more affordable for people to purchase and build on. Some of it is you come in and work with a developer to actually build different projects on, whether it be apartments or townhomes or duplexes. It's also worked in a unique way where cities are experiencing gentrification. you may have an area where someone's lived in their house for 30 years, but because of property values going up and property taxes going up, they're at risk for losing their home.

The land trust can actually come in and buy the land and do a 99 year land lease back to the homeowner. the only stipulation is when they go to, like, sell the property, it has to say, affordable. It can't grow exponentially. It can only grow based on a market rate that's agreed upon in advance.

the goal is that you don't just build a one time project that's affordable for the first five years, 10 years, but you're actually putting a product in place that's affordable over a long, expanded amount of time. And that's what we think will move the needle when it comes to more affordable housing in North Texas. hear my heart with this question, but you guys have a lot of, wealthy, big business members why is it important for you to intersect those relationships with philanthropy and, things like affordable housing?

Yeah. So I think where this started decades ago was, You see a need and a lot of times some of these more underserved areas in our community, developers aren't going there or maybe they're smaller developers that it makes sense for them to be in that part of the community, but they don't have the experience they need. Or there's a non profit that sees the vision and wants to address it. What we've always been really good at as a community, The real estate council is providing our technical expertise.

we don't just bring money to the table because money doesn't always fix everything. A lot of it takes our technical expertise. So we have lawyers, we have bankers, we have developers, we have brokers. They are actually sitting down with these partners, whether it be, an emerging developer or it could be a nonprofit in the area.

And they're working through their challenges. They may say, you know what? I tried to buy this piece of land. It's owned by the city.

How do I buy it? I don't know how to get. It's just a matter of not understanding that business. And we're able to bring those folks forward and help Make that process more manageable for the non profits and, and, and the developers, the emerging developers.

So I think that's what makes us unique and different. I also think we all believe that our core is the heart of the region and we're only as strong as our core. So when we look at downtown Dallas and the surrounding areas, we need to make sure that Development is not just happening in one pocket or another, that we're seeing city wide development, that there's equality in development, that there's opportunity across the region. that's where our partners have been great at helping us identify needs.

the work we're doing with Dallas Catalyst Project in Mill City. was brought to us by a member. along with other proposals our membership voted to spend a million dollars over the next three years in that community, helping move the needle on some of the projects that they think is important. It's not projects that we're bringing to their community.

It really is things that they're owning and the ideas that they have. And we're helping bring some technical expertise and funding to the table. It's that whole partnership. that was such a clunky question, and you answered it so gracefully.

I was going to ask you how TREC has changed over the past 20 years since you came in as a young, I know a young professional back then. Well, it's funny. There was, I think we had seven on staff at the time. our staff has definitely grown.

that was when we first launched our first kind of catalyst project, which was at the time we invested initial 1, 000, 000 into the feasibility of Rogers Deck Park is what we were calling it back in the day. And so it was really coordinating. all the different working groups, bringing together everyone to figure out air rights and how do you build a five acre park over a freeway? And how do you get the emissions out of the tunnel?

And it was just a really great process. So it was fun to kind of see that first project. Before that, TREC had given little grants here and there and had dispersed funds in a different way. And so that was one unique project.

fast forward 20 years and what we're seeing is we're still doing a catalyst project, but what we've decided is let's adopt a portion of our community and let's really laser focus on their needs and what we can do in that area. I think that's had a huge impact on the organization, but also, the city. a lot of the same people are still around. A lot of the same players are still in the market, but I'm also seeing the next generation.

So you don't just have, Will Muenninger, but you have Will Muenninger's son now, who's gone through ALC and is stepping up for leadership in our organization, things like that. So it's been fun to, reconnect with a lot of familiar faces, but also one of the things we've done really well as a city is recruit new industry and new people i've had the opportunity to meet a lot of our members that weren't involved 20 years ago, It's exciting. What do you have on 2025? So, as we look forward, I think, one of the things I asked in the process when I was, talking with our search committee is, what is our vision?

we know what we're really good at. We've taken on some big initiatives and we've got those underway, but if we fast forward five, ten years, what does that look like for the organization? So we actually are engaging in the strategic planning process and, I always warn people, I love strategic planning. it's A game plan for me, and we better like it and adopt it because once we do, I'm on a mission to make sure that we're executing the plan, but I think it's a good opportunity for us to engage with our membership, talk about the issues that matter to them, talk about their experience within the organization and the work that we're doing.

How can we do that better? How can we serve them better? How can we engage better in the work that we're doing and like Mill City and other communities? we'll start that process here in Q1, and I think that will help drive a lot of, our work in the coming years, but also just to help us realign how we make decisions, how we plan, and how we allocate our resources within the organization.

So that's exciting. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to watching you and, and watching the Real Estate Council, grow and thrive. Yes.

I think it's a really exciting time for commercial real estate. Any final thoughts or where people can find out more about Trek? You can find out more online at recouncil. com.

also join us for one of our programs. We have great programming centered on some of the new projects happening in Dallas. we're also doing a lot of work, with our different partners, whether it's affordable housing and those organizations working in that space. we love to engage with the greater community, not just our commercial real estate partners.

So there's different ways to definitely get involved. And, and then you can also reach me. I'm fairly easy to find, but it's jjollyatrecouncil. com.

Thank you. This has been so enlightening. so that's it for this episode of Dallas stir. We will see you next time.