The Eggfluencer, the Algorithm and the Egg Carton: Marketing's New Frontier

Speaker A: Foreign. Dominic Castro here. Welcome to CX Decoded, the podcast that covers customer experience, marketing leadership, and everything in between. I'm, um, Dominic Castro, editor of CMSWire.com and this one comes from our CMO Circle series on CMS Wire tv. My guest is Phyllis Rothschild. She's the Chief Marketing Officer at Pete and Jerry's Organics, the largest premium egg producer in the country. Phyllis spent 30 years in consulting, including leading the branding and loyalty practice at McKinsey. So she knows her stuff, and now she's doing it for a brand. She's the one doing the work now. So in this conversation, we get into how a, ah, brand wins at the shelf when 70% of purchase decision happens right there in the aisle. We all know and, like, love that scenario, right? As shoppers, AI, visibility, influencer strategy, Reddit, the protein narrative. Eggs are riding now. It's just so much in this conversation. It's a lot of fun. And there's even something that emerges in this that I love. It's called an egg fluencer. They actually have one there. All right, check this out. My conversation with Phyllis. Yeah, we're, uh, we're coming in. We should have did this at, like, a nearby, uh, Dunkin Donuts, like, halfway between Manchester, New Ha, where I am, and down in Mass, where you are. Um, we should have, should have cranked it out there, but I guess we'll settle for the virtual world. But it's good to see a fellow New Englander.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Thank you.

Speaker A: They got to deal with us, they got to deal with the New England energy, the rest of the world for this.

Speaker B: So we'll bring it.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I always start these with getting, uh, to know a little bit about you, our guest, you know, kind of how you arrived in the seat you're in now as CMO at Pete and Jerry Organics, and kind of your career trajectory and then just a little bit about the company. You know, what's, what's happening, what's hot in the world of Pete and Jerry. So what do you got?

Speaker B: I am a lifelong consultant, career consultant before I came here. So I spent, uh, close to 30 years in the consulting world doing marketing and branding and strategy consulting. Most recently, I was with McKinsey. I led the branding and loyalty practice there out of the Boston office. Uh, I've been with Pete and Jerry's for three years, a little over. Uh, for me, it was just a natural transition, uh, to go to a company that was very purpose driven, brand driven, uh, the notion of being able to build something, uh, in the food and beverage space. Eggs are certainly having a moment and we can get into that in a little bit. But, um, uh, it was a great opportunity to make the switch over to the brand side. Pete and Jerry's is based in New Hampshire, so it was local for me and I got a chance to see people on a daily basis without having to pack suitcase every week, which I was doing in the consulting world. So, um, it has been an exciting opportunity for me to be able to put, to test all the things that I was telling my clients to go do through all those years. Ah. And also, you know, uncover some things that weren't quite so easy. Uh, so it's been, it's been a great move for me. Pete and Jerry's, for those of you who don't know, is the largest premium egg producer in the country. And by premium, I mean we play in the free range and pasture raised and organic space. Uh, and we are available nationwide. Like I said, we are purpose driven. We are very committed to animal welfare, the health and safety of our hens across 350 farms, uh, um, from Maine to Oklahoma and then also very committed to those farms and the ability for all of those individual families to stay on the land and continue to do what they do. Uh, and to our communities as well. We're very involved in each of the communities in which we participate. And so it's been, uh, it's been really powerful for me to make that move and build a brand that has so much to stand on. But had a little bit of a small megaphone in the early days.

Speaker A: I got to get me some Pete and Jerry's being in New Hampshire. Like, where do I go? Like I'm in Manchester. I mean I was there, you know. Or am I getting some Pete and Jerry's love without knowing it? Like when I go to like Hannaford's or Market Basket or.

Speaker B: No, so we're available there. So Hannaford's Market Basket, both Pete and Jerry's and Nellie's Free Range is our other brand. Um, the purple carton with the little girl. Uh, but you'll find us there, uh, for sure. BJ's, we're also available m Walmart, um, Whole Foods. We're nationwide in every retailer pretty much. So you'll, you will find us. You just have to know what to look for.

Speaker A: I'm going to give you my, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio and Wolf of Wall street. Sell me this pen moment. Now you got to sell Dom Nicastro, who's A Market Basket loyalist. For those who are watching this on a global scale, Market Basket is a little nice grocery outlet in the New England area. Cheap prices. I've been loyal to them for years. Dom's going in to grab that Market Basket eggs. Dozen eggs, like he always does. Convince me to, to, to reach over to my left for Pete and Jerry's.

Speaker B: Well, just so you know, Dom, I shop at Market Basket.

Speaker A: Nice. I'll run into you one day. Easy.

Speaker B: So do you care about the health and welfare of the animals?

Speaker A: At the moment, I am, I am purchasing. No, but when you tell me, uh, that you're into that, I'm like, I should care. I do care.

Speaker B: Well, then I'll take a different track. Um, how often do you eat eggs?

Speaker A: Every day? Well, yeah, sometimes I move over to the cereal arena. I shouldn't because eggs are healthier, because they're easier. You guys. My producer's got to clip that. Like, sometimes I move out of the cereal area. Um, but no, I, I very often. I would say five times a week.

Speaker B: Great. Uh, so these eggs, uh, if you care about the health and welfare of the hens who laid them, but even more importantly, if you care about the quality of what you're putting in your body, I would say that you'd want to go move into a premium egg, one that is free range or pasture raised one, because the hens get outside, so that automatically makes their eggs healthier. They are eating bugs and worms just the way hens were nature intended them to do. The shells are sturdier, the yolks are darker, the whites are firmer. They taste like an egg should. It has more of a creaminess to the and a richness to the yolk. So all in all, if you try it and taste it, I don't think you'll go back.

Speaker A: All right. Well, I'm partial to, like a veggie omelet, no onions and peppers, but stuff like mushroom, spinach, tomato, would it would a pea and Jerry's omelette tastes better than other egg omelets.

Speaker B: Um, we always say that the best tasting egg dish starts with good tasting eggs. And so, yes, they really will do. It's funny that you mention it because before I worked here, I mean, I would buy them periodically. But what we have found, even in the egg category for most consumers, is that we're a little bit of a promiscuous bunch. Like, we do switch back and forth between brands and even store brands. But when I started and started buying them religiously and consistently, my husband who was always the, whatever the cheapest thing is on the, on the shelf. He even admitted that they taste better.

Speaker A: Okay, you got me. Because I sound like him. The cheapest thing available. And I'm like, give me the, give me the meat that says, uh, manager special. That's my favorite.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh. He loved that orange sticker. That is so.

Speaker A: It's like, that's me. Give me that. That's the best tasted meat out there. And market basking, we know is well known for the, for their orange stickers there.

Speaker B: Their orange stickers.

Speaker A: I think they start with them. These are all manager specials. Roll them out. Um, so Phyllis, tell me about the marketing team, you know, that you work with and really the organization at large too. How many employees, like, are we talking about? Um, you know, for the entire company. And then how's your marketing team look like, you know, in terms of people and sort of your stakeholders? Because sometimes the customers are not the only stakeholders for a marketing team. You might even have some internal employee experiences that you're trying to create too. But you tell me.

Speaker B: So P and Jerry's is a little over 500 people right now. We have our headquarters in Salem, but we also have four different processing facilities. So one in Monroe, New Hampshire, way up north. And then we also have one in Pennsylvania, Georgia and Iowa. And each of those locations has, uh, folks who are packaging and processing the eggs and making sure they're getting shipped out across to different retailers. Within the marketing team, I have 14 very powerful, uh, folks. They're, uh, each very hand selected. So I have a really strong team, even though we're kind of lean, um, and we primarily are split into brand marketing and insights and strategy, and then the digital growth team. Um, and so within those groups I have everything from, uh, brand management to design to consumer support, uh, on the brand side. And then on the digital growth management side, I have, um, shopper marketing, which obviously is very much coordinated with our sales team. Speaking of internal customers, uh, as well as our digital marketing and content creation and social media team.

Speaker A: Yeah. Awesome. And all the outputs from that team, end of the day, you're sharing that up with company executives in that big executive pow wow. Whether it's a board or the C suite, whatever you want to call it, what are they asking out of the marketing leader like, Phyllis, what's been going on in your world? Like, what do they care about?

Speaker B: Sell eggs for the most part.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: I think, you know, it's multi pronged. But first and foremost is how are we Driving the business. And marketing is very connected to the business goals and objectives. Um, we're about trying to get more and more consumers to buy our eggs and buy our brands. Uh, and that starts as every other brand does, which is creating awareness for the brands and making sure that they resonate and are relevant to what the consumer cares about. So that's first and foremost is how are you creating content and messaging and reaching the consumer where they are in the journey. And understanding that consumer journ journey, particularly for something like a weekly egg purchase, is uh, really important. But then from there is how do you make, create, trial, how do you get them to then be loyal? Because as I said before, yes, people do are shifting up more and more. We're seeing consumers, ah, shift up from commodity, the cheap eggs up to premium because they're learning and getting educated about the value of them and why they matter. Uh, but also how do they then choose our brand within the premium space? And so what is it about Pete and Jerry's and Nellie's that resonates with them? What do we speak to? How are we transparent in our, um, animal care standards and our health and wellness approaches? Uh, and then ultimately creating ongoing loyalty. Um, so all of those things I make sure that we report on regularly, whether it's to the senior leadership team or to the board.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I know obviously today, uh, everything is data, data, data. You know, you're looking at data. I mean, sometimes I think the as like just a data analyst, you know, how can you not be? I mean, you know, you sitting there, you're firing up your, your, your marketing tools and they're telling you where the customers are talking to you, what they're doing. So what are some of the channels, um, that you collect the data from? You know, what kind of tools are you using? And you know, what is your data telling you in terms of where your customers are living and breathing? Like, where are they talking to you the most?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean as CMOs, we've all become a bit wonky over the years, right. We went from the extreme of, uh, you know, oh, you can't measure marketing to now we measure everything. We kind of over measure in some cases, uh, but you know, we collect point of sale data. So we get circana and Nielsen and spins just seeing how, you know, week to week how our brands are performing and what are the um, velocities that are happening at store. We also look at, uh, numerator data, which is panel the purchase data as well. And then it captures other things like Demographics and attitudes, which is really important for us. We also do brand health tracking on a monthly basis. So we're understanding the sentiments around our, our brands as well as our competitors, as well as brand awareness. Um, and we look at household penetration. So all of that is really important. But the things that we're really making decisions on is we're looking at velocity. So we really want to see if our shopper marketing efforts are working and if people are purchasing through E commerce channels, uh, and how those, uh, messages are resonating or are we rising to the top in search? Um, that's really important. Um, more and more, I mean, we have, we've gone what, 10 minutes, 15 minutes without saying AI, which is shocking. We are looking at, um, our visibility and our citation scores in the LLMs just to see how we're showing up when people are searching for eggs or healthy eggs or premium eggs. So all of that is really important to us and it informs some of the decisions in the near term, but also in the longer term. In terms of what do we want to emphasize going forward and how do we want to make sure that our brand positioning is as on spot as it should be? Um, because as you mentioned, where are consumers? They're increasingly on, uh, AI platforms, whether it's chat or elsewhere. Um, they're increasingly on social. No big news there. But how are we showing up in our social feeds? Whether it's Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, uh, Reddit, um, LinkedIn, even. Um, so we're really trying to make sure that we maintain consistency of voice and brand across those platforms, but also tailor the content and the messaging to the environment in which that consumer is.

Speaker A: Yeah. What's the split roughly, if you don't have the hard numbers, between the E commerce component of the business and the in store?

Speaker B: You know, it's still a majority in store in terms of particularly eggs. I think people are still a little, uh, concerned about the care that their eggs are going to get through. Ah. Um, you know, whether it's an Instacart shopper or an Amazon shopper. Um, but you know, it's growing and it depends on retailer, but it's, it's as high as somewhere in the 25 to 30% range that their people are increasingly ordering their groceries through those channels. Yeah. And therefore their eggs through those channels.

Speaker A: Yeah. You count, do you count the, like a door. Doordash, Instacart. You count that as an E Commerce or.

Speaker B: Yeah, we count that as E Commerce.

Speaker A: Yeah, I guess that would make sense.

Speaker B: Pick up in delivery. Um, you know, those are the ones that we tend to. Yeah, we look at. We don't have our own, uh, D2C business. So we don't ship directly. You go entirely through the retailer. But if it's done through, whether it's Walmart.com or Kroger.com or Instacart or Doordash, then we um, count that as E commerce. Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's interesting you're relying on so many third parties, fourth parties, fifth parties to, to handle your brand image. You know, um, someone consistently gets a cracked box of Pete and Jerry's Organics through doordash. Is that a doordash problem? Maybe not. Maybe it comes back to Pete and Jerry's because they're, they're talking about my eggs always are broken when you know, and the sentiment wise, you're picking up a bad sentiment about your brand when in reality there was nothing you could do about it.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah. So we, we, we are really good at monitoring and um, consumer feedback. Obviously someone has to reach out in order for us to know. But uh, we do have a full time person on our team who tracks those complaints and we try to make it good when they do complain, whether it's a coupon or something else. Um, but yeah, it's a great point and that's why you really have to understand, be able to do the traceability of where the egg was purchased and through which channels so that we can follow up and understand where the, the challenge is taking place.

Speaker A: Yeah. And are we all in on eggs with the company? Is that the product?

Speaker B: We have uh, Nellie's and Pete and Jerry's, they have uh, shell eggs as well as uh, Pete and Jerry's has liquid egg whites, organic egg whites, and then Nellie's has hard boiled eggs and also has butter. So we're a little bit adjacent to the uh, egg category with our free range pasture raised butter. Um, and then we do have a third brand that's small but mighty which is Pillars Drinkable Yogurt. Um, and that's just a hot category right now and it's growing pretty rapidly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you ever get any mixed signals that you're an ice cream company? Which the obvious elephant in the room being the Ben and Jerry's component.

Speaker B: I have a lot of people, especially um, m. My parents generation who are. That's so cool that you work at Ben and Jerry's.

Speaker A: No, we said Pete, grandma. It's Pete and Jerry's. You know, you know Pete, he does the eggs. Ben does the Rocky road. Um, but, you know, being in, in such a wholesome, like, industry that is, you know, uh, it's, it's, it depends on quality farming, you know, and quality raising of, of these hens in these, in these eggs. Um, I would imagine there's opportunities for a lot of, like, brand videos and stories of at the farms and stuff like that. You guys get into that?

Speaker B: A lot of. Absolutely. Consumers love to see the real footage from the farms and we definitely take advantage of it when we can. Um, as I said, we do have 350 farms, so we have a lot of content to pick from and choose from. Um, uh, but yes, it is so important. Plus, it reinforces our message that our hens go outside. Right. That they're roaming in the past, show them running through trees and forests, that they're eating bugs and worms and flowers, um, and enjoying life to the fullest, that they're not crammed in a building or in a cage. Uh, which unfortunately, the majority of eggs that are sold in this country are from hens that live their entire life in a cage that's the size of a piece of paper. Um, and so that's why it's so important that we do show that footage. And it's funny because we do create a lot of content and nothing does better than the hens end moments of just watching our hens cluck around and

Speaker A: have fun, live free. Yeah. And is there, you know, in a marketing meeting where you always refer back to. Remember that campaign? Yeah. Ah, then, man, we gotta do that again. Was there something, something that stands out top of mind that like, wow, we really crushed this campaign. We're so proud of it. We put a lot of effort and we have some attribution that this actually worked in terms of sales.

Speaker B: Yeah, we, uh, so we launched our Pasture is line, um, about two and a half, three years ago about, um, and that one, we really wanted to create something that very much suggested to the shopper that these hens are outside living their best lives, living what, like, wild animals should be. Uh, and what we didn't want to do was do a bunch of facts, right? Oh, you know, pasture raised hens get 108 square foot of outdoor space per hen. You know, no one, no one wants to hear all that. And, you know, we don't need to preach, but what we did is we developed the campaign called Almost the Wildest. Um, and we talked about the fact that these are almost the wildest eggs you can get. And you saw these hens running through the fields and running through the forest. Um, but then there was sort of a record scratch moment. And, um, the talent said, what do you mean almost? And that we showed someone trying to steal eggs from a wild eagle or someone trying to steal eggs from an ostrich nest or. Or an alligator for that matter. And that was. Their point was like, okay, this is wild enough. And so it really did sort of, in a visual way, demonstrate that what it means to be pasture raised. And I think that really resonated. And we, we saw, when we did launch it, we saw a really nice lift and great growth opportunity in the pasture raised space. And we've continued with that kind of messaging, whether it's almost the wildest or as nature intended. We show, you know, a hen eating worms that proves that they're outside. It's that kind of visual, um, imagery and that kind of, um, messaging that translates into the psyche as opposed to just hammering home the statistics and the facts. Even Nelly's, which is our free range brand, we, we have a campaign called Life's Better out Here. And it just shows kids running around and how important it is. And that came from an insight that the average American kid spends less time outdoors than the average incarcerated individual. Um, and so we said, what can we do? Let's show kids running around outside, kicking through piles of leaves, pretending to fly. And so the whole concept was life's better out here, even for our hens. Um, and so that also really worked well for the brand.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. I love it. And then, you know, a lot of. There's a lot of talk about mapping the customer journey. You know, um, the typical journey moments and where is there friction? Where are we missing opportunities and stuff like that? Um, lately, you know, have you, have you. Have you got with your team and thought a lot about the customer journey and where you can make improvements or what you've learned lately?

Speaker B: I love this question. So when I first started at Pete and Jerry's, that the stat that I was told or the fun fact I was told that was so daunting for a CMO was more than 70% of the egg purchase decision happens at shelf. And as a marketer, like, what do I do there? There's no journey.

Speaker A: Color purple. Like, what do you.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, so what we did is we decided to unpack that and really dig into more about what happens with the consumer. And yes, they do say I make a decision at shelf. But when you ask about how you became aware of a brand that you now purchase, that's where you start to see the journey. Because you start to see, oh, I saw it in an ad, I saw it on social, A friend recommended it. Um, I saw, you know, I received a coupon, whatever it was, and it started to open up a different opportunity. And when you added up all of those touch points, it actually was more than 60%. And so you said, okay, now I have something to work with here. So yes, we do a lot of things that are a little closer to the moment of purchase. Right. So whether that's shopper marketing and search and display. Um, but we also do a lot of things on social to try to get into and partner with other brands and other influencers to try to get into the mindset of the consumer as they're starting to become familiar with a brand so that you can capture them a little bit earlier on in the journey. And it doesn't mean we ignore in store. We're really powerful in store. Whether it's in store signage or, um, you know, interrupters on the shelf, we are shelf blades. And then let's not discount the packaging itself. You really have to take advantage of that small real estate. On the COVID of, you know, the front of the egg carton, which we call the sacred ribbon, we make sure that that is as strong as possible. So knowing what the consumer. If it's an organic buyer, print the word organic in really large bold letters so it stands out on shelf. If it's someone who wants more of the hen welfare side of things. Pasture print, pasture raised very large do colors that are going to pop. Our pasture raised is bright yellow like sunshine or organic is, um, you know, a mix of navies and whites. So it's a little bit more standout relative to other cartons on the shelf. Nellie's is just a fun, family inclusive brand. So it's got the bright purple again with the little girl and lots of yellow butterflies flying around. So all of that is very well thought out and attempting to intervene at different points in the journey, but most of all to capture them when they're in store.

Speaker A: Yeah, for me, it's like the timing. Like, if I had, if I wanted to get my eggs first, I'd probably be more convinced to get the premium ones than the market basket ones, you know, but if I'm doing it near the end of the journey of buying, I'd be like, uh, I think I'm like 250 and I got to get some 199. You know, like that's just. It's just so you can't control that as a cmo, as a marketing team, you can't get in the psyche as much as you want to. I mean, you can with clever marketing and advertising, advertising that probably be award winning, but to really cut at things, it's just sometimes a huge. Humans are going to human and just do what they need to do and move on with their day. Man, it's so cool listening to the strategies you're trying to get at with placement and colors. And that still matters. That still matters for you, even in the age of AI.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, even if you think about eggs at a price point, yes, our premium eggs are more expensive than the ones at the bottom of the bunk. Um, but if you do it on a per gram of protein basis, it's still the least expensive. The cheapest source of protein that you can buy in the store relative to seafood and meat and fish and chicken. Um, so that's the other thing we try to say. You could feed a family a dinner if you wanted to, uh, with a dozen eggs for six or seven dollars. Um, you can't do that very much with any other protein source.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's like the. The organic message needs to be more transparent. You know, like sometimes just. That's organic. That's not. Oh, well, that's not helping me make a big decision here, like, whether I go four bucks deeper into my wallet or not. Um, if, for me, if it was something that was so apparent, like, here's what you get, Dom, for four extra bucks, you get, you know, hens that are raised great, you know, properly and freely. You get, um, taste. You get that. And then I'd be like, four bucks for all that I'm in.

Speaker B: Let's go non gmo. All of that.

Speaker A: Yeah, all of the messaging m that I'm missing.

Speaker B: Yeah, you raised a good point because, uh, how many claims can you possibly fit on the COVID of a. Uh, yeah, that's also what we have to think through is how not to make it too busy, but to put out those bullet points on the carton so that for someone like you who might be looking for that, it's there readily for them to see.

Speaker A: I think you need to put me in front of the advertising for Pete and Jerry. So I'd be all in. I'd be like, I get it. I'm a market basket loyalist. I just grabbed their products without even knowing what. Right. And then. But one day I talked to Phyllis Rothschild. She was like, hey, look, this is what you get for that four extra bucks. And I was Convinced. And ever since then, and then you show me making omelets and so it's all good. You ready to do that campaign?

Speaker B: You want to do a TikTok for us? Are you all set?

Speaker A: My wife's big on TikTok. I'll tell her, um, send us some eggs for free and then she'll put it on. She'll, she'll. Absolutely. We'll do a whole thing. Egg influencing. Um, but no, that's a. I was gonna ask that actually. For real. You mentioned influencers. What's an egg influencer do for?

Speaker B: Well, we actually have an in house egg fluencer. That is her title, Egg Fluencer. Uh, so a lot of it is recipes. Um, so we do partner with a number of recipe developers and um, an online food foodies, um, who are able to, you know, tap into their audiences and talk about the importance of using a quality egg, uh, for the recipes that they create. Our in house content creator, Egg Fluencer, she's a, she's a chef, um, and also just a fantastic personality. And so she's able to talk about whether it's egg tips and tricks, the best way to do scrambled or poached or what have you. Sort of the, the normal ones, but also just some really cool recipes. She's done everything from M cocktails with whipped egg whites to, um, you know, frittatas that look like flowers. I mean she's, she's really talented.

Speaker A: An artist. An artist, yeah.

Speaker B: Yes. Um, and then we do have a number of partners, whether it's for the Pete and Jerry's or the Nelly's brand who, um, truly believe in our eggs. We tend to find them because they've already been using our product, which I think is so important for influencer partnerships. For someone who already uses the product and believes in it and loves the brand versus trying to manufacture that relationship. Um, and then we let them go. We sort of give them a few guidelines around what our brand stands for. You picked it up very quickly in terms of hen welfare and, you know, the hens going outside in the family farms. Um, but then we sort of let them be true to themselves and create recipes or create fun little vignettes that have to do with eggs. Um, and that allows us to reach another audience outside of our core.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would love to put that on my LinkedIn that I'm an egg fluencer. That is amazing. Um, send us those TikToks and videos we get. We'll follow. Absolutely. We'll get on board. Maybe we'll have a little fun with the promotion of the show. Ah, with that, uh, there's some tie ins there for sure. But um, you know, looking at, looking into the AI world, um, you mentioned earlier that right now you're trying to figure out how you can get into the party of the search. You know, in AI. Uh, we are too by the way, with our content. Uh, we're not seeing these massive, you know, returns and I don't think anybody in the industry is in terms of like referrals. Like they, they're in the bot, they're in chat GPT, let's say. And then they go to Pete and Jerry's from there.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Chat GPT. Whatever they saw convinced them to click into. So we're not, we're not seeing that. We're seeing like less than 1% clicking into CMS wire from a chat GPT arena.

Speaker B: Uh,

Speaker A: so my, my concern is like how do you, uh. Okay, a lot of the vendors are talking about AI visibility, right? And okay, that's great. You can, you can do all the tech technical stuff behind the scenes and make things more visible. But how do we get them to visit the website once they're in? So what's on your mind in that world?

Speaker B: We're doing a lot of testing for sure. I mean that we're measuring the same thing. Um, but we do look at our visibility and then we do look at citation. So we're seeing where we show up. So, um, and whether our content is cited as the source. So whether that's a website or blogs, um, Wikipedia is a great source of uh, citations. Um, but we look at both of those things and then to your point, what's the call to action that gets them to flip over to look at the website? In our case, not just the website, but the where to buy page within the website. Because we really want to create that interest in someone actually making a purchase. I mean obviously the nirvana would be a click through to Instacart or Amazon where they can, or whatever you know, local.com, uh, retailer they have that they could then actually put add to basket, which is something that we're not able to measure yet, but really very important. But I think one of the things we're really working on is understanding what are those sources and then how do we be present in them? Um, you know, Reddit is really been. One of the things that we've found has been the most common cited source is when people are searching and sometimes it's just eggs, which is really hard because it's a really humongous search. But if they're searching premium eggs or pasture eggs or free range, we rise pretty high up in the visibility. And so then it's a question of where are they going there from there? And it's usually Reddit, Um, and then it's, how do you engage on Reddit, but in a very sort of transparent, authentic way? And you're not getting canceled because the last thing you want to do is get a cancel brand, um, on any of those, on any of those platforms. Um, so you have to be yourself. You don't necessarily want to create little bots on Reddit who are engaging and pretending to be consumers. Yeah, but we, you know, how do you show up in a way that doesn't feel like you're intruding on the conversation or being too performative, but you're actually just answering questions as they arise or being kind of funny in your way that you interact? And we're really fortunate to have that kind of, um, characteristic, particularly in the Pete and Jerry's brand. It's kind of an offbeat, quirky brand. And so we can be a little bit silly and a little sarcastic and it tends to work.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it's on brand when you're being quirky and silly.

Speaker B: Yes. That's great. Porky and Jerry's especially.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, folks come to expect that, too. They're not like, they'll be shocked if, like, you know, McKinsey was like that, for instance. Right. Hey, we're not allowed to do that in my. We're an excellent consultancy. You know, like, you know, things like that just wouldn't make sense. You'd be like someone on drugs at the wheel. What's going on?

Speaker B: That's happening.

Speaker A: But, yeah, um, you know, this has been so cool getting into your, your quirky world, let's say, uh, of, uh, Pete and Jerry's and what's going on with you guys. But, you know, lastly, is there a big sort of marketing initiative that, you know, is consuming you in 2026? Is there something that's, uh, building. You're building towards something that's taking up a lot of your time, you're firing up your workday and you're paying attention to this Asana project or whatever? Like, is it something that's top of mind for you right now and hope to have accomplished if we talk a year from now?

Speaker B: So we just. I'm so glad you asked this question. We just completed some research that we are publishing now, um, on protein consumption. In the US and what we found, which was very happy, uh, finding for us, was that eggs came first. So that, that age old question of which came first. But uh, from a protein preference perspective, eggs are the number one choice among American consumers for the most trusted and healthy protein source. Um, that's above fish, chicken, beans, legumes, protein drinks, protein snacks, you name it. And so that was a really great, ah, insight for us. And then secondly, we also found out that, uh, 2/3 of Americans, um, eat eggs every week for, specifically for the protein content. Um, and among Gen Z and millennials, they cite the source of their whole food ingredients as being the most important to them. So all of this points toward a very positive, uh, tailwind for eggs as a protein source and a whole clean protein source. I think. You know, I like to refer to it as Nature's protein bar. You know, two hard boiled eggs gives you 12 grams of protein and it's one ingredient, no carbs and 120 calories. It's hard to beat. So we're really pushing hard on the protein message and particularly the cleanliness of the source of protein, uh, and it being a whole simple food that people can count on and rely on. And so we're gonna be sharing all of that research in the coming weeks and then really kind of transitioning into some of that messaging around Nature's, uh, protein bar.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. Um, how do you take that report and turn it into marketing initiatives? And you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna ride that narrative pretty hard, huh? Huh? The Nature's protein Bar.

Speaker B: We're gonna try.

Speaker A: You say it. It's not us saying it, it's you. You know, and we're just here to deliver on that, um, going forward. But yeah, uh, I'm a. Eggs are the best. I mean, eggs are the best. That's the title of this interview. It's, it's, they are. Because it's just it, you just feel so much better when you start your day like that. You know, instead of the cereals and the sugars and the muffins and the bagels, you just get, you, no offense to that world, but you just get, um, that feeling like you did something healthy to start the day instead of like, just diving into like being full and bloated.

Speaker B: Yeah, you gotta make it simple too. I make, uh, hard boiled eggs at the beginning of the week. And you know, that way you don't have to worry about. You just pop two in your mouth in the morning. And you're good.

Speaker A: It's so true. Phyllis, uh, Rothschild of Pete and Jerry's Organics. Uh, it's been great. I, um, love that you came from the big world of, uh, the consulting in the agency world, and then now you're doing the work now that you, that you've preached all these years. Like Robin Williams character said in Go Will Hunting, he's like, I practice this. I don't really do it. I mean, I teach it. I don't really practice it. He said, but here you are, living the dream.

Speaker B: The dream and try to make it happen.

Speaker A: I love it. So thanks for joining us on the CMO Circle. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker B: Thank you. I've loved it.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to another edition of C CX Decoded, the podcast covering contact centers, customer service and support, customer experience, digital marketing, marketing leadership, everything in between. This is Dom de Castro, your host for CMS Wire.com keep listening to us. You can find us on Spotify, you can find us on Apple Podcast or Pandora. And you can listen to it right in the article on the CX Decoded podcast page on CMS Wire.com as well. We'll catch up soon. Thank you for tuning in. Talk to you later.